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  1. #1
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    Tubeless or tubed

    My buddies and I are headed to Sedona next week for 4 days of riding. We will be pretty much riding out of Bike and Bean since were staying out at the Red Agave resort. I'm running 2.1 Larsen TT front and 2.0 back. Would I be better off running a tubeless set of tires or stay with the tubed version?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    People who like tubes are going to tell you to.....use tubes. People who like tubeless (ghetto or UST), will tell you to......go tubeless. I for one am of the later group, not the former. However, I think we can all agree that experimenting can be frustrating.

    I'd recommend that you don't change anything up if you're not used to ghetto tubeless before a vacation trip for 4 days. Stick with what you know and experiment on your home turf and close to home.....my two cents.




  3. #3
    No Clue Crew
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    Sage advice ^^^

    However, I'd wager the percentage of AZ riders advocating tubes is tiny.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer
    People who like tubes are going to tell you to.....use tubes. People who like tubeless (ghetto or UST), will tell you to......go tubeless. I for one am of the later group, not the former. However, I think we can all agree that experimenting can be frustrating.

    I'd recommend that you don't change anything up if you're not used to ghetto tubeless before a vacation trip for 4 days. Stick with what you know and experiment on your home turf and close to home.....my two cents.
    Great advice and thanks. I'm taking 2 bikes so my thought was make 1 ust and keep the other the same.

  5. #5
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    Not critical in Sedona. Sedona is high enough that you just have to watch out for pricky-pears near the trail, but I haven't needed tubeless or sealent there, save for just a couple routes, and even then if you're carefull it's no big deal. Sedona is just above 4000', and my personal philosophy is that above 5000', tubless doesn't matter here in AZ, as there aren't that many spines or things to stick your tires at the higher elevations, but Sedona is not too bad and I've been riding there many weekends this year with no flats. One of the bikes I take there has a ghetto-tubless conversion, but the main one I've been riding has tubes.

    Below 5000', and especially below 4000', you run into many more types of cacti, and they are just much more prevalent/dense. You'll still occasionally have catastrophic failures with tubless (as you would with tubes), but the protection against these cacti is worth it if you primarily ride at these lower altitudes.

    Sedona is on the edge, definitely not necessary there IMO.

    If you want, a little slime in the tubes couldn't hurt and would give you most of the benefit of tubless, except from slightly lower weight/rolling resistance. I try to use schrader tubes for this reason, as well as they are cheaper than presta.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  6. #6
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    hey jb! i would definently go ghetto tubless on one of your bikes. especially if the wheelsets will interchange to either bike. you can run lower air pressure tubless for traction, without fear of pinch flatting. you could also do a side by side comparison of tube vs. no-tubes. way cool
    RAM speed: UP, UP, and away....!

  7. #7
    Pivotal figure
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    I converted to tubeless to avoid pinch flats (which Sedona will be perfect for), not for the cactus (which Sedona is relatively free of). It really depends on how hard you ride though...
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  8. #8
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    tubeless for certain.

  9. #9
    Meatbomb
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    stick a sock in your pants and ride what ya got. either way you're coolio and riding the slick rock so no worries.

  10. #10
    EDR
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    It's a non-issue imo.

    Don't make a change now. Either is fine for Sedona, just go in prepared to fix a flat, tubeless or otherwise and you'll be just fine.

  11. #11
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    Conti makes a 26" MTB standard tube with a removeable valve core, for those that want to add their own sealant to their own tubes.

  12. #12
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    I've run ghetto tubeless since last july when I had to hike out 4 miles at 100 degrees at 8am after my spare tube's valve stem ripped. I'll never look back. Lower PSI, No pinch flats, no cacti stopping your ride. Have yet to damage a tire enough where sealant couldn't fix it.

    I still carry two slimed tubes in my pack and a patch kit, but have yet to use them.

    The ghetto method works really well and creates a pretty perfect seal when stans bonds the tire to the rubber inner tube. Just do the tubeless conversion a couple days before your trip, pump them up real good over night, and do some rides around the block, they might loose some PSI over night, but that is normal for the first two weeks. After that i loose a 1-2 psi every 10-20 days.

  13. #13
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    I agree with the above advice that you should stick with what you know. Going tubeless (ghetto especially) takes a bit of experimenting sometimes to find the perfect way of doing it. Now that I've perfected my ghetto setup, I haven't had a single flat in two-years. But if you haven't experienced the learning curve on YOUR rims (every rim/tire combo will react differently to mounting, etc) then I wouldn't do it 4-days before a fun trip... especially in Sedona.

    If you're concerned about flatting, then just take some extra tubes... slimer tubes even better (but a lot heavier). I've been carrying extra tubes around for these two years and only use them when I have to give them out to friends who haven't converted to tubeless. I'm sold! But whatever works for you...

    I just removed my tires yesterday in anticipation of my new rims. BOTH tires were pincushions on the inside... literally filled with cactus spines but never had a leak. Love the Stans.

    Have a fun trip... Sedona is dabomb.
    Graeme Hunt Design - www.graemehuntdesign.com

  14. #14
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    Stay away from the Airport Loops and you will be fine. Tubeless is nice if you have lots of thorns to deal with but its definitely not mandatory for Sedona.

  15. #15
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    What's the consensus with being a Clyde, running tubeless on stans with non tubed tires on the front of a 29'er? Burping an issue? I ask because a 170 pound buddy I ride with has had 3 burps, 3 different times, on Stan's Arches on steep rocky loose stuff, and crashed hard, every time, with myself having to do a panic stop to pick up the pieces.

    I've never had a burp or sudden deflation with tubes, so I'm a bit leary to go tubeless on the front wheel, but I am running Flows with sealant and tubeless in the rear.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    What's the consensus with being a Clyde, running tubeless on stans with non tubed tires on the front of a 29'er? Burping an issue? I ask because a 170 pound buddy I ride with has had 3 burps, 3 different times, on Stan's Arches on steep rocky loose stuff, and crashed hard, every time, with myself having to do a panic stop to pick up the pieces.

    I've never had a burp or sudden deflation with tubes, so I'm a bit leary to go tubeless on the front wheel, but I am running Flows with sealant and tubeless in the rear.
    What pressure was he running? It might be a loose tire. I'm 165 without gear and run 25psi front and rear. I've used the Rampage and Nevagal tubeless on the front without a single issue in 3 years. I got two years out of my Rampage on the front before it was bald and the braking suffered. I ride twice a week with a guy who is 50lbs more than me and he runs 45psi tubeless without issues. He has complained about damaging sidewalls at lower pressure but no burps.

  17. #17
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHORN LEW
    hey jb! i would definently go ghetto tubless on one of your bikes. especially if the wheelsets will interchange to either bike. you can run lower air pressure tubless for traction, without fear of pinch flatting. you could also do a side by side comparison of tube vs. no-tubes. way cool
    Well, if some of us tried using less pressure, the problem wouldn't be pinch flats so much, but that we'd be denting our rims, which is far more expensive.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Conti makes a 26" MTB standard tube with a removeable valve core, for those that want to add their own sealant to their own tubes.
    I think you mean to say that Conti makes a PRESTA mtb tube with a removeable core, otherwise pretty much all schrader mtb tubes have removeable cores.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  19. #19
    Monocog Masher
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    Stay with your tubes until after your trip to Sedona then switch to tubeless and then kick yourself every ride thereafter because you should have switched two years ago. I highly recommend you consider Stans, specific to your particular rim, and get new tires. Don't try to convert old tires.

  20. #20
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    Tubes FTW!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    I think you mean to say that Conti makes a PRESTA mtb tube with a removeable core, otherwise pretty much all schrader mtb tubes have removeable cores.

    Wow, thanks!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    What's the consensus with being a Clyde, running tubeless on stans with non tubed tires on the front of a 29'er? Burping an issue? I ask because a 170 pound buddy I ride with has had 3 burps, 3 different times, on Stan's Arches on steep rocky loose stuff, and crashed hard, every time, with myself having to do a panic stop to pick up the pieces.

    I've never had a burp or sudden deflation with tubes, so I'm a bit leary to go tubeless on the front wheel, but I am running Flows with sealant and tubeless in the rear.
    I'm not a Clyde but I've run both UST and non-UST tires. With the Non-UST tires running tubeless with Stans I burped the front tire ALL the time. And cornering was a very squishy, sketchy process. I hated it. But when I went to UST tires (on the same regular rims using the ghetto setup) I've not burped once. And this is on my rigid singlespeed.

    The regular (non-ust) tires just have weaker sidewalls and are too squishy/burpy for me.
    Graeme Hunt Design - www.graemehuntdesign.com

  23. #23
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    standard tubes, no slime- you can't patch them. carry spare tubes, patch kit and tire boots. don't try anything new on your vacation, as previously mentioned, sometimes they take some experimenting.

  24. #24
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    Thanks guys for all of your imput. I've decided to make the Scalpel tubeless with the maxxis Larsen TT UST and leave the Flux tubed. I'll test the UST version this weekend and give both a go in Sedona.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Wow, thanks!
    I realize that you know everything, but I was thinking of the children.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  26. #26
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    Sedona or wherever- convert sometime in your lifetime
    kompressor

  27. #27
    Kathleen in AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by kompressor
    Sedona or wherever- convert sometime in your lifetime
    And when you do convert to tubeless, think fatter tires. 2.0 and 2.1 are slim compared to what most of us in AZ have on our bikes.

  28. #28
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    i cant think of any reason to ride with tubes, especially in AZ. theres been a couple times that i have run lower pressures, taken big hits and burped, but those instances would have yielded a pinch flat with tubes - and they were non-catastrophic.

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