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  1. #1
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    Tubeless Help Needed

    I am done with jerry-rigging my tubeless install. I currently have tape around the rim with a cut out valve held in place with latex. The tape keeps pulling off the rim edges and bunching up in the middle. This causes the valve to leak air after a while thus making me open it up re-tape the rim and put the valve back in place. I swear, I have wasted way too much time on this all to save a few bucks...

    So do the stans rim strips (with the valve attached) work very well or do they have issues of their own? What local bike shops (Phoenix or Tempe) carry just the rim strips for standard rims? I don't need the sealant or anything else, just the rim strips.

    I need to spend less time fixing my tires and more time riding on them!!!!

  2. #2
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    Quit playing with your rims and ponie up and purchase some tubeless rims. I have the the maxxis crosslands with specialized tubeliss tires and they rock. No flats and if you get one they'll replace the tire free.

  3. #3
    sixsixtysix
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    The Stans Strips work fine as long as they are the right ones for your rims. I know Cactus carry them, not sure about what other shops stock them, or you can usually find good deals on the entire kits online.

  4. #4
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    with ghetto, I go with strapping tape as a base layer, covered by pipe tape. Works fine, if you seat it all right.

    with Stan's strips, you will still have strapping tape under the inserts. Adventure in Mesa did them for me, takes just a few minutes once you know what you are doing. .
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  5. #5
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    What wheels are you riding?
    I've had great results with the Bontrager TLR wheels. I had a set of Mustangs that I converted using Race wheel rim strips and now Rhythm Elites. No issues with airing up tires or flats. I'm now running Wadesters home brew tire sealant it works great!

  6. #6
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    The back is the one giving me problems right now. I am running the Kenda Small Block 8 on it. The rim is an old Syncros that has seen better days. I figure I might get another 3 months out of it but its dished to the side because it won't go true anymore.

    Are the UST rims really worth it? I heard they are heavier and really don't add much value. I think it just the tape bunching up that is the problem. The tire seals fine, its the valve that unseals once the tape bunches. The tape slip is the problem (I think).

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    with ghetto, I go with strapping tape as a base layer, covered by pipe tape. Works fine, if you seat it all right.

    with Stan's strips, you will still have strapping tape under the inserts. Adventure in Mesa did them for me, takes just a few minutes once you know what you are doing. .
    Pipe tape as in the teflon thread tape? I have a layer of high grade electrical tape as the strapping and a layer of caution tape (the stuff you put around machinery on the floor) as the top layer. The caution tape was the strongest tape adhesion I could fine (but it may be too thick).

  8. #8
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    Pipe tape is used to protect gas and electrical conduits when buried under ground. Super thick and sticky.
    UST wheels are not worth it. I had a set of CrossMax on my Kona Coiler and had to run sealant still for thorns and had lots of burping issues. Since going to 29" wheels and Bontrager TLR system. No Burps! The Stans wheels are very nice also.

  9. #9
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    So what is better? Pipe tape or stans rim strips?

  10. #10
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    I've had better luck so far with the "ghetto" (bmx tube) conversion than I have with the Stan's strips.
    May be too heavy for you though.

  11. #11
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    Pipe tape is $10 or $12. Enough tape to do an endless number of conversion. Stans rim strips $40 to $60 a set and you still have a chance of tearing the valve stem from the strip. Search the "ghetto tubeless in AZ? Is it worth it?" thread. Lots of useful info there. I think ChollaBall started it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    I've had better luck so far with the "ghetto" (bmx tube) conversion than I have with the Stan's strips.
    May be too heavy for you though.
    The back wheel is running V-Brakes and the butterflied bmx tube (unless trimmed with surgeon perfection) ends up rubbing on the breaks or interfearing with the breaking surface. I don't need any help in crashing.

  13. #13
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    ive had luck with both stans strips and the pipe tape method....taking the time to get the tape applied in an even manner without bunching is critical. It's worth the effort to go slowly here and apply a few inches at a time. I use the stans strips for tires which fit loose on my rim....I can get away with the pipe tape method for those tires which fit tight on the rim.




  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdpowers
    The back wheel is running V-Brakes and the butterflied bmx tube (unless trimmed with surgeon perfection) ends up rubbing on the breaks or interfearing with the breaking surface. I don't need any help in crashing.
    Ah, ok. Never occurred to me.

    In that case...the Stan's strips work pretty well, they can be a PITA to get them seated though.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdpowers
    Pipe tape as in the teflon thread tape? I have a layer of high grade electrical tape as the strapping and a layer of caution tape (the stuff you put around machinery on the floor) as the top layer. The caution tape was the strongest tape adhesion I could fine (but it may be too thick).
    I'm not sure what either are made of, but both are referred to by name. ACE carries both. The strapping tape is just super-durable packaging tape. I think I have a 1inch roll which i slice to fit in the bed of the rim (i think the stuff in the Stan's kit is about 15mm wide). Pipe tape (or pipe wrap) I have the 10 mil thick. I think its 2 inches wide, then slice with an exacto just under the bead of your rim. It is not like the teflon plumber's tape - its pretty durable and stretchy, and is black.

    The thread on Ghetto Tubeless is huge, but has a ton of info and links in it from lots of people. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=420661

    As azpoolguy mentions, the stans strips are about $40 a pair. They are pretty easy to use, but I ripped both valves out of mine in less than a year. Buying a full collection of pipe wrap, strapping tape, mold builder, slime and ammonia will cost you maybe $25 and do probably 10 rims for you.

    I have my valve from an old tire, with maybe .5 inch square of rubber on it still. I then overlayed 2 layers of pipe tape. It makes the tire tight right at the valve, but once seated has been fine. others have other methods.

    PaulB mentioned to me the other day that he adds shredded tire bits to his mix to replace the glitter - hey Paul how did you shred that stuff up?
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  16. #16
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    Lots of good info in that thread. Thanks for the link.

    I make my own sealant as well but dont use ammonia. Instead I put in a mix of water and windsheld waster fluid.

    I think I am going to try the pipe tape route. If I can just get the damn valve to stay sealed I will be set. That's the only thing that's giving me heartache at this point.

    I wouldn't mind hearing what over people use for their sealant recipe... Mine is:

    1 tablespoon latex mold
    1 tablespoon slime (tubeless)
    1 tablespoon windshield washer fluid
    3/4 cups water (bottled in the Swiss Alps of course)

    That fills two tires.

  17. #17
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    what about cutting up a thorn resistant tube and using a hardcore glue (shoo goo, liquid nails, etc.) to glue the puck in place over the tape? instead of runnning the tube all the way around and splitting? I haven't done the tubeless thing just watched the videos on stans and read up some on the forum here.

  18. #18
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    re-tapped the rim with pipe tape and put the valve in with a couple extra layers of tube like Paul suggested in the other thread; it sealed up great. Lets see if it holds the air but so far so good. Thanks guys!

    BTW my sealant recipe is of course stolen.... don't know who created it but thanks!

    Nobody willing to share their secret sauce? Ok, that sounds bad.

  19. #19
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    LOL I just read the old thread linked in this one made me think about my jeep days and having blown a bead.

    touch of starter fluid and a match don't forget the safety glasses!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwxhgbcWq9Y

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdpowers
    The back wheel is running V-Brakes and the butterflied bmx tube (unless trimmed with surgeon perfection) ends up rubbing on the breaks or interfearing with the breaking surface. I don't need any help in crashing.

    Time to get up to speed chuck the rims / v-brake go disk and 24" bmx ghetto cut lobster tail style for the win! no problems at all and very low maintenance.


  21. #21
    Saucy Size
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    Shredded tube: Took me a while to figure it out but this is what I do. Take your cruddy oooold tube, and wrap it around a thick, round tool handle (control yourself ladies). I like to use my full-length Park pedal wrench. Make it tight. Then, I use a rasp and just systematically work my way around the latex. Work over a piece of paper.

    It takes me maybe 10 minutes to produce a couple full tablespoons of latex dust in various particulate sizes.

    p.

    p.s. that ghetto tubeless thread really does have a lot of good stuff in it! I forgot. I've been thinking about holding a "best thread of the year" contest for the AZ forum, and it would certainly be a candidate.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by markskee
    Time to get up to speed chuck the rims / v-brake go disk and 24" bmx ghetto cut lobster tail style for the win! no problems at all and very low maintenance.

    IMO disc breaks in the back are overkill, at least for me. The vbreaks lock the wheel up just fine with a good range of modulation so disc would add weight without value. I do run disc in the front. Anyways, who uses the back break that much?

    The tire lost a little air over the night but I will get a ride in on it before I put in a verdict.

  23. #23
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    For trimming the excess tube I take a boxcutter/Xacto knife and score the strip from the spoke side of the wheel. If you rest the blade against the edge of your rim and press hard enough while spinning the tire slowly you cut ~1/2 way through the rubber. If you stretch the excess strip away from the wheel while you cut it is easier and will result in a cleaner cut in the end. I do this with my bike mounted in the workstand and sitting on a stool. Then cut into the strip from the outside and pull the strip parallel to the wheel, it should tear right off with no visible rubber peeking out from between the tire and rim. Just be careful not to press too hard while cutting and stab your tire.

    I could not get a ghetto tubeless wheel to seat this past weekend, I think it had something to do with extra thick rubber around the valve stem preventing a seal.

  24. #24
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    I'M TUBELESS!!

    well, at least they seem to be holding air. We'll see tomorrow AM.I got a set of panaracer fire xc pro tubeless and snipped up a pair of holey 700c tubes I had. I did the pipe tape trick (omg how easy!) and some liquid nails around the valve hole between the pipe tape and the 700c tube. I tried to use slime @ first cuz it's cheap then broke down and used the stan's stuff. Slime seems too thick it wouldn't seep into the teeny holes around the valve stem.

    *sidenote* I didn't want to get all scientific mixing some noxious concoction of ammonia and latex. I homebrew and my wife can barely stand the smell of that she'd probably get a restraining order over homemade sealant

    Anyways thanks forum especially kelstr (I think you invented the pipe tape idea?) and the cojones to even try this without UST rims. My legs will thank me come sunday.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by temperedbythesun
    I'M TUBELESS!!

    well, at least they seem to be holding air. We'll see tomorrow AM.I got a set of panaracer fire xc pro tubeless and snipped up a pair of holey 700c tubes I had. I did the pipe tape trick (omg how easy!) and some liquid nails around the valve hole between the pipe tape and the 700c tube. I tried to use slime @ first cuz it's cheap then broke down and used the stan's stuff. Slime seems too thick it wouldn't seep into the teeny holes around the valve stem.

    *sidenote* I didn't want to get all scientific mixing some noxious concoction of ammonia and latex. I homebrew and my wife can barely stand the smell of that she'd probably get a restraining order over homemade sealant

    Anyways thanks forum especially kelstr (I think you invented the pipe tape idea?) and the cojones to even try this without UST rims. My legs will thank me come sunday.
    Congrats!!! Mine is sticking too, not great but good enough. Hopefully it will hold for the long haul.

  26. #26
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    Yea I am worrying about the presta in the shrader hole. I will likely end up getting something else for the valves.. Might be worth the money for the peace of mind. My first trip out on these I am taking 2 slimed tubes w/ me.

  27. #27
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    i think that thread posted was the one where I added pictures of the mavic tubless stems setup I went with. I tried the used tube stem and had tons of issues. Since I went to the mavic stems I have had 0 flats and 0 problems since then and Im using the single wrap of 10mil pipe tape. I have unseated the bead twice as to check fluid and refill as necessary and had even less sealing issues each time. All I did was pop part of the bead add fluid and pop the tire back on, blast it with air and spray the mess off with water hose and back on the trail. Heck my bike sat for over 3 months not ridden and it did seep quite a bit but still had air in the tires and good to go. the only problem I had was burping under low pressures with old stems because I used the "feel" the air pressure method and was WAY to low cause they were at like 15-18psi. Every ride I check them and set to 30 psi front and rear by gauge now and have had 0 issues as stated above. Good luck!!

  28. #28
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    SUCCESS! I am so stoked. They held up great. I was conscious about them when we started @ the end I almost forgot although I wasn't as tired as I used to be from spinning all that extra weight. I had absolutely 0 issues with the bead only the valve stem seal. I don't have a compressor but was willing to burn some co2 to get em on if I had to but they went right on with the hand pump.

    So if I buy the mavic UST presta deals will they fill the gap on my shrader style rims? OR will I have the same gap/seal issues I have now?

    Also, those tires (panaracer fire xc pro tubeless) seem too knobby for Az imo. They're more of a mud tire. I think next time im going to go with Maxxis Larsen TT UST or something with smaller and more dense tread pattern.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by temperedbythesun
    SUCCESS! I am so stoked. They held up great. I was conscious about them when we started @ the end I almost forgot although I wasn't as tired as I used to be from spinning all that extra weight. I had absolutely 0 issues with the bead only the valve stem seal. I don't have a compressor but was willing to burn some co2 to get em on if I had to but they went right on with the hand pump.

    So if I buy the mavic UST presta deals will they fill the gap on my shrader style rims? OR will I have the same gap/seal issues I have now?

    Also, those tires (panaracer fire xc pro tubeless) seem too knobby for Az imo. They're more of a mud tire. I think next time im going to go with Maxxis Larsen TT UST or something with smaller and more dense tread pattern.
    I run Maxxis Larsen's in the front a (non UST) and don't really care for them. They are skittish on the loose stuff.... I still like the old IRC Mythos tread patterns the best for AZ....

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