Training Rides for TOWM -- Sat/Sun 9/20-9/21- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Training Rides for TOWM -- Sat/Sun 9/20-9/21

    In preparation for the 60-mile TOWM race, I'm going to do 2 long back-to-back training rides next weekend. Anybody is welcome to join in the "fun".

    Sat 9/20 -- "Around the McDowell's" roadie ride. This is a scenic 75-mile loop out to Rio Verde, including going UP 9-mile hill. This ride has appx 3500ft of climbing, often times with decent head winds coming back home. It's a big big ride -- just under 4 hrs in the saddle.

    Sun 9/21 -- "End-to-End T100" MTB ride. The name isn't 100% accurate, as I do a fair amount of diversions along the way (Zipper, 202/Black Diamond). I also go UP Shaw Butte just to stick the knife in (1k climb in just under 1 mi). Another big ride -- appx 3-3.5 hrs in the saddle (28-30 miles).

    Combined rides total about 7+ hours in the saddle, which is great preparation for the 5-6 hour (or more) 60-mile TOWM loop.

    Both rides will be leaving my house in NE Phx at around 6-6:30AM, which we can determine as we get closer to next weekend and know what the weather will be like. Both rides will also be ridden at a "training pace", which is not a race pace but definitely not slow either: I guess this would be considered an A-/B+ pace (avg about 20.5 on the roadie ride). If we get enough interest and there are different speeds of riders, we can consider breaking this up into "A" and "B" groups.

    After each day we can cool down by plopping in the swimming pool and recover by munching on some food.

    Anyway, post up if you're interested. I'm riding both days regardless of interest, and you are free to join me either day or both.

    Thx...Doug
    Last edited by dgangi; 09-14-2008 at 03:32 PM.

  2. #2
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    I'm down for this. I should make both. Bob

  3. #3
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    Logistics

    Duh...I forgot to post my address:

    2401 E Turquoise Dr
    Phoenix AZ 85028

    General vicinity is 51 freeway/Shea in NE Phx. I trust you all know how to use Google maps.

    The Weather Channel calls for sunshine and moderate temperatures in the 90's for next weekend. I think we can start each day at 6:30AM. If anything changes between now and then regarding the forecast, we can adjust accordingly.

    If you want to bring your swimsuit, there's a pool + jacuzzi for your enjoyment after each ride. And trust me...these are some hard rides so you will want a little time to relax and cool off after each one.

    Thx...Doug

  4. #4
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Weekend Freeway Closure

    FOR THIS WEEKEND 09/20-09/21 - Gangi's Death March Rides...

    Just a caution for those coming up from the east valley and plan on using the Loop 101...Best bet would be to go West on the 202 to AZ51 as Doug's house is right off the 51.

    Northbound Loop 101/Thomas Road and Shea Boulevard
    Closure: Northbound Loop 101 (Pima Freeway) closed between Thomas Road and Shea Boulevard from 10 p.m. today to 5 a.m. Monday for carpool-lane construction, including removal of temporary barrier wall.

    Detour: Freeway traffic will exit and go west on Thomas Road, north on Hayden Road and east on Shea Boulevard to return to Loop 101. Allow extra travel time and use other alternate routes if possible.

    More info on other freeway closures here:
    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...tours0919.html
    ~~~

  5. #5
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    DEATH MARCH! DEATH MARCH!!!!!!
    so who's officially in tomorrow?
    Dgangi, me, suling, monkeybutt, who else??

  6. #6
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    you'll all be in my thoughts.

  7. #7
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    I'm not so sure I will be there. If it's just the fast folk, I'm not going to want to be the one holding you all up...

    Plus Jeff is having an issue with his bike that he needs to figure out before venturing out to the boonies on the backside of the McDowell's so we are not sure yet.

    Sunday Jeff is planning on joining. Me, possibly...again...the fastness factor.
    Last edited by su.ling~; 09-19-2008 at 11:07 AM.
    ~~~

  8. #8
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    I'm not very fast right now but I'll be there for Sunday. Hopefully the Sat. ride will equalize things a bit for me...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    I'm not so sure I will be there. If it's just the fast folk, I'm not going to want to be the one holding you all up...

    Plus Jeff is having an issue with his bike that he needs to figure out before venturing out to the boonies on the backside of the McDowell's so we are not sure yet.

    Sunday Jeff is planning on joining. Me, possibly...again...the fastness factor.
    Yea we do need to keep a relatively brisk pace...but as I mentioned in the original post, if we have different abilities of riders, we can split into 2 groups.

    I'm also going to print out some maps if anybody wants to do their own thing at their own pace.

    Thx...Doug

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    Yea we do need to keep a relatively brisk pace...but as I mentioned in the original post, if we have different abilities of riders, we can split into 2 groups.

    I'm also going to print out some maps if anybody wants to do their own thing at their own pace.

    Thx...Doug
    2 Groups seems unlikely for the road ride unless more than you, Bob (Chongoman), Jeff and myself show up. That would leave 3 speed demons and one dopey girl... Which technically is 2 groups I suppose.
    ~~~

  11. #11
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    I'm in for Sunday. I'll keep up as long as I can, but Yuri, Suling, I'll eventually hang back and make you guys look good. Heck I may even stop somewhere for a beer.
    When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry wall.

  12. #12
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    JB - I'm riding with you

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriB
    JB - I'm riding with you
    oh fabulous...i'll be too slow to keep up with Doug and Jeff, but tempted by the party train bringing up the rear. i should stay home and ride Hawes and lie to myself that I'm fast and not an alcoholic.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    2 Groups seems unlikely for the road ride unless more than you, Bob (Chongoman), Jeff and myself show up. That would leave 3 speed demons and one dopey girl... Which technically is 2 groups I suppose.
    Su Ling check your PMs. Mrs. Cball is teetering on the fence for Sat.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    oh fabulous...i'll be too slow to keep up with Doug and Jeff, but tempted by the party train bringing up the rear. i should stay home and ride Hawes and lie to myself that I'm fast and not an alcoholic.
    You'll be fine. Whether you hang with the "fast" (cough cough) group or the slower group...who cares? It's all about being on the bike and pushing as hard as you can for as long as you can. That's what the TOWM race is all about, right?

    Oh yea...and that you have to push long and hard for 6+ hours. I guess that is one small difference.

    Regardless, bring a few $$ for some beer as I'll be getting a case (or two or three) for the post-ride recovery meal.

    Thx...Doug

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    You'll be fine. Whether you hang with the "fast" (cough cough) group or the slower group...who cares? It's all about being on the bike and pushing as hard as you can for as long as you can. That's what the TOWM race is all about, right?

    Oh yea...and that you have to push long and hard for 6+ hours. I guess that is one small difference.

    Regardless, bring a few $$ for some beer as I'll be getting a case (or two or three) for the post-ride recovery meal.

    Thx...Doug
    If you will be showing Eagles\Steelers, I may stick around longer. your tv is probably nicer than mine, and no screaming kid.

    GO IGGLES!!!
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  17. #17
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    It's NFL Sunday. I'm an American male. What do you think is going to be showing on my TV?

    You can hang out all day and watch football if you want. I'm gonna be one pooped puppy so you can bet my tired ass is going to be in the pool or on the couch in front of the boob tube.

    Thx...Doug

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    Duh...I forgot to post my address:

    2401 E Turquoise Dr
    Phoenix AZ 85028

    General vicinity is 51 freeway/Shea in NE Phx. I trust you all know how to use Google maps.

    The Weather Channel calls for sunshine and moderate temperatures in the 90's for next weekend. I think we can start each day at 6:30AM. If anything changes between now and then regarding the forecast, we can adjust accordingly.

    If you want to bring your swimsuit, there's a pool + jacuzzi for your enjoyment after each ride. And trust me...these are some hard rides so you will want a little time to relax and cool off after each one.

    Thx...Doug
    Doug...I just googled your house and it appears from the satellite view your pool is empty with some green stagnant water in the deep end. Should I bring some DEET?

    When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry wall.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusJoe
    Doug...I just googled your house and it appears from the satellite view your pool is empty with some green stagnant water in the deep end. Should I bring some DEET?

    The landscaping and dirt driveway look terrible too!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    Su Ling check your PMs. Mrs. Cball is teetering on the fence for Sat.
    Sweet, hoping your cool chick will make it for the roadie. Just chatted with her. We'll either be the 'slow' group or our own group if we decide to split off.
    ~~~

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    Sweet, hoping your cool chick will make it for the roadie. Just chatted with her. We'll either be the 'slow' group or our own group if we decide to split off.
    nice. daddy-daycare here i come.

    PS: you will tell me if she scratches my bike, right?
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt
    The landscaping and dirt driveway look terrible too!
    Ha. That Google image is what I use a barometer to tell how often they uppdate their system. Apparently not very often. because that was an accurate picture of my house...18 months ago.

    Now with $75k in landscaping and improvements to the pool, the yard looks nowhere near that photo...at least I hope not!

    Thx...Doug

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    nice. daddy-daycare here i come.

    PS: you will tell me if she scratches my bike, right?
    Errr...no. But I'll scratch it beforehand for you, that way you can get over the worry of it getting scratched. Why not just buy her a cool NEW bike of her own? She damn good on a bike!
    ~~~

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    Now with $75k in landscaping and improvements to the pool, the yard looks nowhere near that photo...at least I hope not!

    Thx...Doug
    I can attest that your backyard is quite eye-catching, the pool sparkling clean with no need for DEET! I must remember to bring my bikini! My biking tan sucks...
    ~~~

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    2 Groups seems unlikely for the road ride unless more than you, Bob (Chongoman), Jeff and myself show up. That would leave 3 speed demons and one dopey girl... Which technically is 2 groups I suppose.
    I'm not sure why you think I'm going to be as fast as D and J. I'm going to do my best, but jeez!

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    I can attest that your backyard is quite eye-catching, the pool sparkling clean with no need for DEET! I must remember to bring my bikini! My biking tan sucks...
    you're pulling out all the stops to get more boys and girls to join you on this ride.

    Unfortunaly, I'll be riding off a hangover on SoMo this weekend.

    I DD/T100'd myself out last weekend.
    b

  27. #27
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    Those of you not up for Doug's hammerfests can come over to my pad for my boob recovery house beautification project. Instead of bouncing around on a mtn bike (OUCH!!!), I have a spectacular painting project in progress! Taping, priming, painting.... so much to do... and just little ol me with one sore boob to do it all

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DurtGurl
    Those of you not up for Doug's hammerfests can come over to my pad for my boob recovery house beautification project. Instead of bouncing around on a mtn bike (OUCH!!!), I have a spectacular painting project in progress! Taping, priming, painting.... so much to do... and just little ol me with one sore boob to do it all
    You can always come over and hang poolside with us after our rides. Sun + beer + hot tub = boob healing medicine.

    Thx...Doug

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    Errr...no. But I'll scratch it beforehand for you, that way you can get over the worry of it getting scratched. Why not just buy her a cool NEW bike of her own? She damn good on a bike!
    trust me i have not been the one going "no no, I really am not in the mood to go bike shopping." you are right though, i maybe will have to go buy it for her -- but even after 15 years, i think that is a little too personal.
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  30. #30
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    Good ride today. At the top of 9-mile hill (mid 40-ish miles) Doug’s computer said we already burned 2700 calories.

    I rode from the house so I ended up with 80 miles total and an average of 19 mph. What a good work out!

    Tomorrow should be kick arse, I love my Sultan!

  31. #31
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    We meeting at 6 or 6:30 tomorrow? How was the road ride?

  32. #32
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    Road Ride Report from the "B" group

    Doug, Jeff and Bob took off like crazed rabid madmen. Beckie and I followed the same route out to 124th & Shea, of course, never seeing them... Like I predicted...

    So we did our own loop. Beckie and I went up through Hidden Hills and back then through the Mummy Mtn loop. By the time I reached home, I had logged just a hair under 60mi. We had a great time, weather wasn't too hot until the end and we kept a decent pace. Beckie should come ride more often. She's good even when she's been off the bike for months. But, what else do I expect from a marathoner!!! ;-) Her legs generate pure power.

    See you for at least part of the ride tomorrow!
    ~~~

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriB
    We meeting at 6 or 6:30 tomorrow? How was the road ride?
    Just spoke with Doug. Meet at 6:30am at his house.
    ~~~

  34. #34
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    Whew! I'm pooped...

    Ok...I'm tired.

    Yesterday Monkeybutt (Jeff), Chongoman (Bob) and I did the 75-mile roadie ride. We had a decent breeze in our face most of the morning...which added a litte extra to the grunt factor. Bob did a great job sticking with us...even up 9-mile hill. Overall it was a good long tiring ride.

    This morning we had a bigger turnout for the T100 suffer-fest. Yuri, JB, Chollaball (Jason), Jeff, SuLing, Bob and I all started together for another day of pain. Early on I had a mechanical (pivot fell out of my brake lever...something that was fixed with a zip tie)...and Bob had a sidewall tear (was able to plug it)...and that was all. Given how T100 chews on bikes and spits them out, I was expecting more. We did various sections of T100, 1A, 220, and Zipper before breaking up on the saddle just west of DD. Jason and I then made our way over to Shaw Butte...slogged our way up and down...and returned home. I was *really* hurting on Shaw Butte...

    After the ride today we all took a much needed dip in the pool. And SuLing brought over her yummy bean dup.

    Anyway, I accomplished my goal for the weekend -- wear my ass out in preparation for the TOWM -- and I hope you all who joined in the "fun" had a good time too.

    Thx...Doug

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    Ok...I'm tired.

    Yesterday Monkeybutt (Jeff), Chongoman (Bob) and I did the 75-mile roadie ride. We had a decent breeze in our face most of the morning...which added a litte extra to the grunt factor. Bob did a great job sticking with us...even up 9-mile hill. Overall it was a good long tiring ride.

    This morning we had a bigger turnout for the T100 suffer-fest. Yuri, JB, Chollaball (Jason), Jeff, SuLing, Bob and I all started together for another day of pain. Early on I had a mechanical (pivot fell out of my brake lever...something that was fixed with a zip tie)...and Bob had a sidewall tear (was able to plug it)...and that was all. Given how T100 chews on bikes and spits them out, I was expecting more. We did various sections of T100, 1A, 220, and Zipper before breaking up on the saddle just west of DD. Jason and I then made our way over to Shaw Butte...slogged our way up and down...and returned home. I was *really* hurting on Shaw Butte...

    After the ride today we all took a much needed dip in the pool. And SuLing brought over her yummy bean dup.

    Anyway, I accomplished my goal for the weekend -- wear my ass out in preparation for the TOWM -- and I hope you all who joined in the "fun" had a good time too.

    Thx...Doug
    Thanks Doug. This made for a great weekend. Your pool and pad are excellent spots for a post ride chill out.
    You also woke up the roadie in me. Holding that pace for that long makes road riding way more exciting than normal. Thanks for the encouragement.

  36. #36
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    I'm cooked. Thanks for the ride and post ride cool down. You should host more rides. JB and I were too beat for Shaw Butte so we made our way to Circle K for Gatoraide and beer.
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  37. #37
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    I'm cooked. Thanks Doug that dip in the pool at the end was perfect. Nothing like gunning the throttle for 4 hours to remind you where you stand on the food chain...
    When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry wall.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusJoe
    I'm cooked. Thanks Doug that dip in the pool at the end was perfect. Nothing like gunning the throttle for 4 hours to remind you where you stand on the food chain...
    Glad you had a good time. It was good having you along on the ride. The Circle-K beer idea...priceless.

    And see...I told you that you wouldn't need any DEET...

    Thx...Doug

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    The Circle-K beer idea...priceless.
    I will have to defer to Yuri for the credit for that idea. As we were about to drop down the hill to the tunnel under 7th street, Yuri casually mentioned that the Circle K on Cave Creek was "that way"...and it was almost 10am...

    That was the most refreshing-looking pool I have seen in a long time...
    When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry wall.

  40. #40
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    provocative....

    ....
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chongoman
    ....
    JB deftly turns a simple training ride into a Pride Parade (not that there is anything wrong with that).
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    JB deftly turns a simple training ride into a Pride Parade (not that there is anything wrong with that).
    You were the one that wouldn't shut up about my "junk"...

    Pull the lycra out of the closet because I'm behind on my biking laundry and this is what I get...never, never again. Not sure what I was thinking...

    But it did make me at least 15% faster.
    When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry wall.

  43. #43
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    Provocative...

    !!!
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  44. #44
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    somebody spent a little too much time in Sodomy Gulch I see....
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    somebody spent a little too much time in Sodomy Gulch I see....
    That's it I'm done with T100. Forever.
    When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry wall.

  46. #46
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    Hmm...If I could only combine the two...

    perfection
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  47. #47
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    my gawd...what a package!
    ~~~

  48. #48
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    Doug,

    Sounds like a fun weekend. Sorry I missed it but we made our own fun in Flagstaff - you can check out the ride recaps here http://jayrapson.wordpress.com/

    What's on tap this coming weekend?

  49. #49
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    Thank you Bob and Jason... thank you. I was thinking similar, but my conscience won out. That'll teach me to drink before noon.

  50. #50
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    Ride Stats

    Ok...for those of you who care about the ride stats more than JB's junk...here you go.

    Satuday - Rio Verde roadie ride

    Total distance: 74.05 mi
    Average speed: 19.5 mph (not too bad considering we had a headwind 75% of the day...without a headwind I usually do 20.5 mpg average on this ride, so this was a respectable pace)
    Total climbing: 2905 ft (1100 of this was from 9-mile hill)
    Ride time: 3:47


    Sunday - T100 end-to-end+Shaw Butte

    Total distance: appx 27.5 miles (my Garmin shows 25.79 but it shut off on me twice and the last time I rode this it was close to 27.5 mi)
    Average speed: 8.3 mph
    Total climbing: 3605 ft
    Max grade: 46% (somewhere on Shaw Butte!!)
    Ride time: 3:05 (more like 3:15 if you count the times the GPS shut off)

    Thanks again to everybody who came out for the "fun". We'll have to do it again sometime soon.


    Thx...Doug

  51. #51
    Fragile - must be Italian
    Reputation: dgangi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird
    Doug,

    Sounds like a fun weekend. Sorry I missed it but we made our own fun in Flagstaff - you can check out the ride recaps here http://jayrapson.wordpress.com/

    What's on tap this coming weekend?
    Too bad you missed out...we had 2 good rides.

    I'm not sure yet about the plans for this weekend...probably Tortilla Flat road ride Sat and maybe SoMo on Sun?? I'll send you an email later in the week as things take shape.

    Thx...Doug

  52. #52
    Occidental Tourist
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    Didin't that freaky lady say some thing say something like that to you?
    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    my gawd...what a package!

  53. #53
    mtbr member
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    Let me plant a seed for sunday morning Hawes > Mine Tr > over to Pass Mtn loop and back.

  54. #54
    pedaller
    Reputation: Noelg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaybird
    Let me plant a seed for sunday morning Hawes > Mine Tr > over to Pass Mtn loop and back.
    nice!
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  55. #55
    parenting for gnarness
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    Only 10 More for a CactusJoe Beefcake Calendar

    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  56. #56
    wrecking crew
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriB
    Didin't that freaky lady say some thing say something like that to you?
    Yeah! She had crazy eyes! She said "ppp-reeeety gggiiiirllll!" in psycho voice!
    ~~~

  57. #57
    Too many Sedonuts...
    Reputation: CactusJoe's Avatar
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    Doug, for the record, I have nothing to do with the unholy hijack of this thread and can't understand Bob and Jason's obsession with my junk.

    Once again, no more lycra. Ever.

    I have nothing further to say on this matter.

    (see you guys next week )
    When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry wall.

  58. #58
    i like cheese.
    Reputation: bike=good's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CactusJoe
    Once again, no more lycra. Ever.
    hallelujah.

  59. #59
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    46% slope? did you scale a wall? that's insane. clearly you (or anyone) didn't ride up that section. of course I was staring at my bike from the couch all weekend. so I could just be in an agro mood.



    (no pun or affiliation to ARGO implied or intended)
    b

  60. #60
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    46% slope? did you scale a wall? that's insane. clearly you (or anyone) didn't ride up that section. of course I was staring at my bike from the couch all weekend. so I could just be in an agro mood.



    (no pun or affiliation to ARGO implied or intended)
    it was my first time, but Shaw Butte has some ridiculous inclines. Its a double track with degraded asphalt on it, so the grip is pretty good. Not sure about 46%, but there were maybe 3 stretches that were super-steep for ~1/10th mile each.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    it was my first time, but Shaw Butte has some ridiculous inclines. Its a double track with degraded asphalt on it, so the grip is pretty good. Not sure about 46%, but there were maybe 3 stretches that were super-steep for ~1/10th mile each.
    That sounds really steep. I'm amazed at what they pave !

    I went up to Thompson Peak (McDowell's) about 4 or 5 months ago, and the road is mostly paved. It too, is crazy steep. I litteraly went burned thru my brake pads and went metal-to-metal on the way down. My pads looked like razor blades .

  62. #62
    wrecking crew
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    It's really not that bad. There are a few sections that are steep but only a few. You can do the whole mountain without stopping. As for being 'paved'...well, it is severely degraded to the point where there are sometimes a few strips of asphalt...sort of...if you can call it asphalt. But the traction is fairly good up the whole way.

    As for a 46% grade? Not sure about that. It is a slow grind on the steep sections and on a hot day, you pray for a breeze.
    ~~~

  63. #63
    Everyone Bleeds!
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    Cool-blue Rhythm Well...

    I rode up this thing this morning. My GPS tells me that the greatest grade going up was 31.2%. Coming down on the other side was 47.2% (Very steep!). Not sure exactly where it is located, but after a certain point the road/trail up becomes much less difficult. Maybe a bit after that one switchback where the road/trail gets a "woody" kind of levels off for a few feet and gave me a breather. Saw lots of hikers and no other bikers on the trail until I got back into the valley. http://trail.motionbased.com/trail/activity/6827032
    Last edited by ArmedMonk; 09-23-2008 at 12:34 AM.
    Everyday of my life, I'm forced to add another name to the list of people that piss me off!

  64. #64
    Fragile - must be Italian
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    It's really not that bad. There are a few sections that are steep but only a few. You can do the whole mountain without stopping. As for being 'paved'...well, it is severely degraded to the point where there are sometimes a few strips of asphalt...sort of...if you can call it asphalt. But the traction is fairly good up the whole way.

    As for a 46% grade? Not sure about that. It is a slow grind on the steep sections and on a hot day, you pray for a breeze.
    The 46% grade comes from the GPS...not me. It tracks that info. I just dunno exactly where on Shaw Butte you hit that grade (probably that small second bump??)...all I can see is max grade for the ride. I can map grade in conjunction with mileage, but that doesn't really pinpoint exactly where on the trail you hit that...

    Thx...Doug

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