Traildoc Map Getting Stiff Competition from Bear Tooth Map- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Traildoc Map Getting Stiff Competition from Bear Tooth Map

    Well I got my Edition #7 Bear Tooth Map as a gift from MTBR member DaveBro. Dave gave it to me in appreciation for sharing the top secret Sedona trail info with him. I owe him bigtime thanks Dave.

    This commercial map is AMAZING. It shows Highline, Hog Heaven, Hog Wash, Special Ed., Pyramid, GUNSLINGER and Witch Doctor without any names, but those trails are shown as a dashed lines. So you kinda need someone to write in the names for you, unless you buy my more comprehensive map at Over the Edge or get it online for free.

    They also show the recently adopted and signed Chuck Wagon and Mescal trails. What is really AMAZING is that they show soon to be adopted trails: Easy Breezy, Anaconda, Made in the Shade and Slim Shady as system trails even though they currently have no signage. Bear Tooth (BT) missed the new entrance into Easy Breezy, but I am sure they will correct that in their #8 Edition.

    Then to really top it off BT has included all the newly adopted but not yet completed Secret Trails. They must really be close to someone who knows those trails since I have only recently GPS'ed all those trails and trail re-routes since I have been doing volunteer trail work out there. They have Javelina, Crusty, Powerline Plunge, Adobe Jack, Shorty, Grand Central and Ant Hill shown as FS system trails that haven't been totally completed or signed, but they are on the map listed as FUTURE FOREST SERVICE TRAILS.

    This is really cool since Over the Edge will be able to send a lot of their more advanced bike rental customers over to the Secret Trails area for a great user experience. Eventually there will be a map of the total Secret Trail system at each trailhead. I have shown a jpeg of that proposed map which will be revised slightly before final printing.

    That is truly amazing and we all have to give thanks to the Sedona Red Rock Ranger District for giving Bear Tooth all that trail Intel for their map.

    I am getting worried that my map will soon become a dinosaur. So I will be doing a review of what trails BT doesn't show like: Western Civilization, Last Frontier, Check Point Charlie, Middle Finger, Bike Path, Cat Walk, Under the Radar, Under Under the Radar, Sketch, Old Ridge, Vista, Under Under Under the Radar, Upper Ramshead, Double D , Cakewalk. Drano, Stay High, Tequila Sunrise, Brew Pub, Levitra, Tomahawlk, Killer Bee, Christmas Wash, Damifino, Hangover, Margaritaville, Canyon of Fools, Sick Rock, COF East, COF West, High Tea Cup, Middle Tea Cup, Mouse Fingers, Cedar Ridge, Damifido, Birdcage Centennial and Steam Boat.

    There are also some new trails I have to add to my map: White Line, Sick Boy, Simon Says, Double Trouble, Wash Up and a new trail I saw yesterday that intersects Little Horse about 1/2 the way up from Bell Rock Pathway. It looks like it must come off of Lama to short cut to Little Horse.

    Well it looks like Sedona is on it way to becoming another world class mountain biking destination for the advanced skilled mountain biking masses. And it looks like Bear Tooth and I will help people find those trails shown, but not all named on their map and I will be able to help those people and all those people that want to ride those trails I show, but they (BT) don't show on their map.

    What a country. The level of competition is unbelievable and I wonder what Emmet Barks mapping is up to these days.

    Oh one thing I forgot and need to mention, BT doesn't show any my my favorite mountain bike loop ideas and they don't show any of the Forest Service great mountain bike loop ideas. I think someone said those would be included.

    They show 21 good hikes, but NO mountain biking rides. Even their hike ideas don't include great loop ideas like Special Ed. to Pyramid to Cat Walk to Scheurman to the start of the hike. They show out and back hikes even Jennifer Burns of the FS knows hike loops are what hikers are looking for. What would you rather do an out and back or a really cool loop.

    TD
    Last edited by traildoc; 02-27-2012 at 10:52 AM.

  2. #2
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    It does seem rather odd that Beartooth is that on top of it. They must have a mole buried deep inside the Sedona Red Rock Ranger District.

    Perhaps you need a new slant geared toward the 30%: Black Diamond Trails of Sedona--World Class Loops they were Afraid to Tell You About

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    It does seem rather odd that Beartooth is that on top of it. They must have a mole buried deep inside the Sedona Red Rock Ranger District.

    Perhaps you need a new slant geared toward the 30%: Black Diamond Trails of Sedona--World Class Loops they were Afraid to Tell You About
    The Mole is...


    TD!!!


    He wanted someone to harangue and ran out of 'victims'...

    Some veiled sideways swipes in this passively rather aggressive post.
    It's all Here. Now.

  4. #4
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    The next opportunity in Sedona is moving the masses to TRAILS EDUCATION. Start with simple things like "Staying on the existing lines". Games like "Play nice with old Hikers" and "Cool things to say to Cougars". What happened to "don't bust the crust"? Then move on to "where the beer is coldest". But really, doesn't this seem like a free for all?

    Keep the Peace!
    There is a big difference between ripping and skidding.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockerc View Post
    The Mole is...


    TD!!!


    He wanted someone to harangue and ran out of 'victims'...

    Some veiled sideways swipes in this passively rather aggressive post.
    rocker:

    You are right about one thing and that is how does Bear Tooth get there trail Intel so quickly. The BIGGEST seller of mountain bike trail information in AZ is Cosmic Ray. Ray has done a good job providing riders with good information to get them to the trailheads and let them go on their riding adventure from there.

    For years I tried to give him trail beta for his map projects and once in a while he would update his work product. As you know Cosmic is an old school guy and he does all free hand drawing of his maps so they don't exactly show where the trail goes.

    Since the advent of the GPS trail making has become much more accurate and easier to do by some old guy like me who is a terrible artist (I actually flunked art in 7th grade). Once I purchased my trusty Topo Fusion I didn't have to be a Rembrant to do a map of Sedona. I just needed a $179 GPS, Topo Fusion, and the Passion to ride every mountain biking trail in Sedona.

    That all worked well and now there seems to be another game changer out there that Cosmic and I need to be concerned about from the BIG guys like Bear Tooth. It seems like Bear Tooth is somehow plugged into the FS to get pretty much real time information on all existing and new trails in Sedona and I assume all over the country.

    I wonder if Rider Mel in Moab is feeling the competition? Obviously these larger mapping companies have the ability to print a HIGH quality colored map much more competively than Cosmic, Mel or me can do, so the pressure is on since they no longer seem to have to go out and ride or hike the new trails they are showing on their maps.

    If you can just sit back in a barn or tent some place in the world (that you like to live) and have the landmanager feed you trail information, you have cut your expenses to produce your map DAMATICLY.

    That makes a poor little map maker like me have to be real creative to capture the potential map purchaser out there. So far I still have the most comprehensive Sedona mountain bike map because the FS is too busy doing important paper work to be able to get out and GPS all the 30 or so other great mountain biking trails we have in Sedona, but I have a feeling that when they get the time the beta will be sent immediately to the BIG BOYS and ultimately I will be put out of business.

    But the upside will be a much better mountain bike trail map for the the masses and that is my ultimate goal anyway. When the SMART PHONE technology takes hold big time even big guys like Bear Tooth will be out of business.

    You wonder what effect that technology will have on the outfitters like Hermosa Tours, Western Spirit, 360 Adventures and Pink Jeep?

    I guess my question is "can anyone request new mountain bike trail information from the FS GIS section of the FS, and have it be sent to them on a somewhat real time basis? Or, is there some type of personal relationship with a person within the FS that allows information like that to be moved so quickly to a mapping company like Bear Tooth?"

    What a country. I feel sorry for the little guy or girl out there who is competing with the BIG GUY. It makes the need to get smart, develop good needed job skills (forget map making), and work harder more important than ever to be part of the middle class or whatever class I am in.

    TD
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    Last edited by traildoc; 02-27-2012 at 03:02 PM.

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