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  1. #1
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    They're out of hibernation again...

    No...not the snakes...but what I call the "fair weather hikers". It happens every year when the weather cools off.

    Here are the signs you know it has happened:

    1) The trails are congested with people walking 3+ abreast.

    2) The weight of the average hiker jumps 25 pounds.

    3) More and more hikers are wearing clothing/shoes appropriate for the mall...not the desert

    4) General attitude turns decidedly worse


    I saw these signs today so I put on my "especially nice demeanor" face. I rang my bell to everybody...waved...smiled...stopped and chatted...and tried to be as nice as possible. And even with all of my effort I *still* got the evil stink eye from at least 20 people, all of whom fit the description above. The regulars were as nice as ever...but these "occasional" trail users were generally pissy. Apparently they felt I had no business being on *their* trail.

    What the hell? I feel sorry for these angry slobs...I have no idea why they can't be happier. Today I was able to keep my smiley face on all day...but it got hard at times. It's only a matter of time before it gets old and I start getting pissy myself.

    What do you all do to keep from exploding in a string of explicatives at these people??

    I know avoidance is the best policy...but when you ride SoMo, PMP, McDowell's, and the other city trails, it's impossible to do so.

    Thx...Doug

  2. #2
    Ahhh the pain....
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    Totally agree...rode over Wingate pass in the mcdowells, over the top then around MMP and back over Wingate. The last mile of Wingate was absolutely mobbed with people most of whos shoes have never seen dirt and couldn't believe someone was actually riding a bike on those hiking trails.

    ughh...I figure of the 18 or so miles I rode, only about 1 mile of it was congested with hikers...so I guess not bad.

  3. #3
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    Sweet blog!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    What do you all do to keep from exploding in a string of explicatives at these people??

    I know avoidance is the best policy...but when you ride SoMo, PMP, McDowell's, and the other city trails, it's impossible to do so.

    Thx...Doug
    Just have satisfaction knowing that these people are going to be climbing back into the divots on their couches, whining and crying about how sore their muscles are or how tore up their feet are after going on their "long" treck into the harsh desert" You know it's true!!!
    It's only skin, it'll grow back!!

    Save the drama for your mama!!!

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  5. #5
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    No...not the snakes...but what I call the "fair weather hikers". It happens every year when the weather cools off.

    Here are the signs you know it has happened:

    1) The trails are congested with people walking 3+ abreast.

    2) The weight of the average hiker jumps 25 pounds.

    3) More and more hikers are wearing clothing/shoes appropriate for the mall...not the desert

    4) General attitude turns decidedly worse


    I saw these signs today so I put on my "especially nice demeanor" face. I rang my bell to everybody...waved...smiled...stopped and chatted...and tried to be as nice as possible. And even with all of my effort I *still* got the evil stink eye from at least 20 people, all of whom fit the description above. The regulars were as nice as ever...but these "occasional" trail users were generally pissy. Apparently they felt I had no business being on *their* trail.

    What the hell? I feel sorry for these angry slobs...I have no idea why they can't be happier. Today I was able to keep my smiley face on all day...but it got hard at times. It's only a matter of time before it gets old and I start getting pissy myself.

    What do you all do to keep from exploding in a string of explicatives at these people??

    I know avoidance is the best policy...but when you ride SoMo, PMP, McDowell's, and the other city trails, it's impossible to do so.

    Thx...Doug
    Hey I was off trail when I think you passed us while coming down the zipper. The group of 15 on T100 carrying thier dog was the only group that really slowed us up today.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  6. #6
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    I rode PMP today and remember why I like riding over near Estrella...

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    No...not the snakes...but what I call the "fair weather hikers". It happens every year when the weather cools off.

    Here are the signs you know it has happened:

    1) The trails are congested with people walking 3+ abreast.

    2) The weight of the average hiker jumps 25 pounds.

    3) More and more hikers are wearing clothing/shoes appropriate for the mall...not the desert

    4) General attitude turns decidedly worse


    I saw these signs today so I put on my "especially nice demeanor" face. I rang my bell to everybody...waved...smiled...stopped and chatted...and tried to be as nice as possible. And even with all of my effort I *still* got the evil stink eye from at least 20 people, all of whom fit the description above. The regulars were as nice as ever...but these "occasional" trail users were generally pissy. Apparently they felt I had no business being on *their* trail.

    What the hell? I feel sorry for these angry slobs...I have no idea why they can't be happier. Today I was able to keep my smiley face on all day...but it got hard at times. It's only a matter of time before it gets old and I start getting pissy myself.

    What do you all do to keep from exploding in a string of explicatives at these people??

    I know avoidance is the best policy...but when you ride SoMo, PMP, McDowell's, and the other city trails, it's impossible to do so.

    Thx...Doug
    We saw maybe 5 hikers total on our 10+ mile ride today. I took the SO--who's still a bit timid on a bike--on some off the beaten path trails today, knowing the trails would be crowded. Other than our short stint on T100, trails were pretty bare.

    BTW Doug, you passed us towards the end of our ride. I didn't stop you, as you seemed to have a good pace going, and were coming to a climb. But you did say "Hi" to me.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  8. #8
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    sometimes its best just to bite your tongue and not say anything,,, just let one rip as you pass...

    enjoy your crowded trails,, biking season here is over till at least april, often june by the time the singletrack dries out

  9. #9
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    Hikers

    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    No...not the snakes...but what I call the "fair weather hikers". It happens every year when the weather cools off.

    Here are the signs you know it has happened:

    1) The trails are congested with people walking 3+ abreast.

    2) The weight of the average hiker jumps 25 pounds.

    3) More and more hikers are wearing clothing/shoes appropriate for the mall...not the desert

    4) General attitude turns decidedly worse


    I saw these signs today so I put on my "especially nice demeanor" face. I rang my bell to everybody...waved...smiled...stopped and chatted...and tried to be as nice as possible. And even with all of my effort I *still* got the evil stink eye from at least 20 people, all of whom fit the description above. The regulars were as nice as ever...but these "occasional" trail users were generally pissy. Apparently they felt I had no business being on *their* trail.

    What the hell? I feel sorry for these angry slobs...I have no idea why they can't be happier. Today I was able to keep my smiley face on all day...but it got hard at times. It's only a matter of time before it gets old and I start getting pissy myself.

    What do you all do to keep from exploding in a string of explicatives at these people??

    I know avoidance is the best policy...but when you ride SoMo, PMP, McDowell's, and the other city trails, it's impossible to do so.

    Thx...Doug
    You forgot the IPODIOTS,

    Don't matter how much polite you dole out or the amount of warning you effort out for them to hear you, you must at some point show IPODIOTS a wheel..........then HOLY S&$T, you would think you were on a CR250 with roost and all.

    NO polite way around them.......

    Chip

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo
    You forgot the IPODIOTS,

    Don't matter how much polite you dole out or the amount of warning you effort out for them to hear you, you must at some point show IPODIOTS a wheel..........then HOLY S&$T, you would think you were on a CR250 with roost and all.

    NO polite way around them.......

    Chip
    +1
    I always get behind these guys on DC with zero bike handiling skills that putt along slower than the hikers with their iPod in both ears. I try to be nice and wait till a good point to pass opens but they are all over the trail, and cannot hear $hit when I say passing on the left. When I finally have had enough and go around them, it is always funny to see the reaction. I occasionally ride with my iPod but took a cheap pair of earbuds and cut the left earbud off and have it at a low volume. This way I can still hear what is going on around me.

    I rode Hawes yesterday and it was dead. No hikers and only a few MTB's at the time I went out.

  11. #11
    Pivotal figure
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    Yep, the double edge sword of winter/fall riding. Great weather but you can't do anything with it. I love those 105 days even though I feel like I'm gonna die. Jut have to ride alternate trails like Alta.
    Desert Sunset Calls/Upward, Pain, Perseverance/Welcome Solitude

  12. #12
    slow uphill
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike
    sometimes its best just to bite your tongue and not say anything,,, just let one rip as you pass...
    great advice.

    I've had a little luck just hitting the trails early as a means of avoidance. A bit cold, but the long sleeves are worth the lower traffic.

  13. #13
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    I try to be just as nice as i can, I generlly don't have any problems .
    I have this one older coupple that has threatened my wife on two ocations when we were comming down the back side from doing a Pass Mountain run,--( running on all the baby heads and hack that you can not slow down on )
    I come down first ahead of my oldlady and I guess I pissed him off and he stopped my better half and said that he was going to kick my a$$ the next time ,-------then it happened again ---( I thought it was them i passed again but I was not sure---they do not move and I have to go off trail which is not real easy right there on the Pass )---------sure enough when she met me at my waiting point acrossed from the "Cat Peak" gate , ---she said that this time he threatened to find out who we were and he was going to get us arested .

    I mean it is really funny that this poor old guy is so mad ---( actually I am older than he or she but I guess they think I am an adolescent )

    This coupple on Pass Mountain and the one goofy guy that maked booby traps on SoMo is the only people I have had troubble with .

  14. #14
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    I rode Hawes yesterday and it was dead. No hikers and only a few MTB's
    Shhhhhhh!

    I love Ipod people at SoMo. You do your best to come up on them safely and make yourself obvious but when you get to them they have a major panic attack and damn near fall off the trail.

  15. #15
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    begin training appropriately...


  16. #16
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    This is the reason I start my rides at 5am with my lights on!! It helps to avoid most of the hikers out on the trail although there still is 1 A$$hole runner that thinks he owns National in the am's that I am likely to have a run in with. Generally at SoMo we catch the big levi wearing folks coming up the road before they hit the trail which makes it easier to make a pass!!

  17. #17
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo
    You forgot the IPODIOTS,

    Don't matter how much polite you dole out or the amount of warning you effort out for them to hear you, you must at some point show IPODIOTS a wheel..........then HOLY S&$T, you would think you were on a CR250 with roost and all.

    NO polite way around them.......

    Chip
    This thread is disgusting and full of arrogance and elitism. And again, such hypocrisy. Cyclists gripe all day long about how drivers refuse to slow down for bikes , but can't seem to get it in thier heads that they should do the same for others.

    I have many cycling related issues. iPod users ain't even close to one of them.
    Last edited by Dirdir; 10-11-2009 at 08:19 PM.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    This thread is disgusting and full of arrogance and elitism. And again, such hypocrisy. Cyclists gripe all day long about how drivers refuse to slow down for bikes , but can seem to get it in thier heads that they should do the same for others.

    I have many cycling related issues. iPod users ain't even close to one of them.

    I know. God forbid people are out enjoying the city parks in the nice weather.

    We didn't see another soul on our two shuttle laps. IPods were blaring and dogs were of leash.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    This thread is disgusting and full of arrogance and elitism. And again, such hypocrisy. Cyclists gripe all day long about how drivers refuse to slow down for bikes , but can seem to get it in thier heads that they should do the same for others.

    I have many cycling related issues. iPod users ain't even close to one of them.
    AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    This thread is disgusting and full of arrogance and elitism. And again, such hypocrisy. Cyclists gripe all day long about how drivers refuse to slow down for bikes , but can seem to get it in thier heads that they should do the same for others.

    I have many cycling related issues. iPod users ain't even close to one of them.
    My opinion, the rude behavior lies in those that see the trail system as theirs and theirs alone not allowing for input form others to signal their presence, whether we are overtaking a biker/hiker/ off leash dog, whatever, some RESPONSIBILITY lies in your ability to hear traffic coming up behind you.

    Chip

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo
    My opinion, the rude behavior lies in those that see the trail system as theirs and theirs alone not allowing for input form others to signal their presence, whether we are overtaking a biker/hiker/ off leash dog, whatever, some RESPONSIBILITY lies in your ability to hear traffic coming up behind you.

    Chip
    Um, sorry, but this viewpoint is totally self-centered. These people are not trying to do anything other than enjoy themselves out on the trail on a multi-use trail. The hikers are in the majority.

    The anti-ipod crowd always pull this argument out in an attempt to somehow make this issue about "personal responsibility" and/or others acting like trail gods. I ain't buying it. I have been riding these, and other trails, for many, many years. I still have not had a problem with ipod users. I have never been late to work, missed a lunch date or had my ride so severely disprupted by an ipod user that my day was totally ruined.

    And again, why do so many of us not understand the road bike/car analogy?
    I AM JUST A JERK

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Um, sorry, but this viewpoint is totally self-centered. These people are not trying to do anything other than enjoy themselves out on the trail on a multi-use trail. The hikers are in the majority.

    The anti-ipod crowd always pull this argument out in an attempt to somehow make this issue about "personal responsibility" and/or others acting like trail gods. I ain't buying it. I have been riding these, and other trails, for many, many years. I still have not had a problem with ipod users. I have never been late to work, missed a lunch date or had my ride so severely disprupted by an ipod user that my day was totally ruined.

    And again, why do so many of us not understand the road bike/car analogy?
    Today I came upon a hiker that had her music blaring so loudly that I could literally make out the name of the song on my bike! Now that's crazy.

    I also came up behind a mountain biker with his Ipod blaring. I think he had better headphones than the hiker, because I couldn't quite make out the song.

    Regardless, this is a safety issue. People are free to do what they want, and listening to music on the trail is a right that we all need to respect. But when people cannot hear others around them, then problems arise. Take that hiker for example...she could not hear trail runners, horse riders, and bikers...anybody that can overtake her from behind. That put her and anybody else at risk when they approached her.

    Most everybody else with an Ipod could hear me fine, meaning they had the volume turned down to a level where they could still hear activity going on around them. It was just the 2 idiots with their music too loud who were a hazard. And FWIW -- I didn't get upset at them. I just rode around them off-trail, which isn't very good for the desert, but I had no other choice because they could not literally hear me shouting at them.

    Thx...Doug

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    poor comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Um, sorry, but this viewpoint is totally self-centered. These people are not trying to do anything other than enjoy themselves out on the trail on a multi-use trail. The hikers are in the majority.

    The anti-ipod crowd always pull this argument out in an attempt to somehow make this issue about "personal responsibility" and/or others acting like trail gods. I ain't buying it. I have been riding these, and other trails, for many, many years. I still have not had a problem with ipod users. I have never been late to work, missed a lunch date or had my ride so severely disprupted by an ipod user that my day was totally ruined.

    And again, why do so many of us not understand the road bike/car analogy?
    Dirdir,
    I think your trying to hard to be a laywer here. Apples and oranges, I agree a bike rider on the road needs and requires ALL his / her sense's to ride defensivily, The hikers or whatever that "close themselves off" by eliminating the most useful of all sense's to be made aware of being overtaken are not using (laywer talk) reasonable care in using a public place. Just because you have the right of way does not mean it's always prudent to use it

  24. #24
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    Wow, and to think.. I was just reading a thread on a hiking board about how rude mtbers are Course, there are also complaints about trail runners too.. then there are the complaints from the equestrians, and about the equestrians.. Seems that everyone just sucks
    mike

  25. #25
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    But we suck way less right?
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo
    Dirdir,
    I think your trying to hard to be a laywer here. Apples and oranges, I agree a bike rider on the road needs and requires ALL his / her sense's to ride defensivily, The hikers or whatever that "close themselves off" by eliminating the most useful of all sense's to be made aware of being overtaken are not using (laywer talk) reasonable care in using a public place. Just because you have the right of way does not mean it's always prudent to use it
    Now iit is a safety issue? Huh? Let's all get real for just a moment here. The most dangerous thing on the trail is a bike and the biggest cause of harm is the rider himself.

    Ipods a danger issue. Give me a break.

    And I think you missed the road bike comparison. Perhaps this was my fault as I may not have been clear. Drivers see bike riders as usurpers of the road. These drivers are often unwilling to slow down, even for a moment, because of a cyclist that may be obstructing suchg driver's "precious flow" to wherever the hell they are going. The bike riders are just out for a good time. Same goes for the mountain bike riders v. iPoders. These bikers are unwilling to sacrifice a moment of their "precious flow" because some guy decided it owuld be nice to have a hike with some music. Unbeleivable.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi
    Regardless, this is a safety issue.
    Doug, I love ya man, but I disagree 100%. Some yahoo listening to music, whether said yahoo can hear me or not, is not a safety issue. The only real safety issue is the rider him/her-self.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  28. #28
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    Interesting topic...

    I'm a new rider (started in April) and today was my first time leaving pavement behind for a "real" trail ride. Based on research here, I chose to ride Reach 11. I had a friend with me that is slightly more experienced. We rode around east of Tatum, then went over to the west side of the park. While riding, we came up behind two equestrians, guy and girl, and we were looking for a side trail to get away from them, when they suddenly pulled off into the desert (I didn't like that) and waved us by. As we passed, my friend said thanks, and the guy rider shouted, "Actually, it supposed to be the other way around" then gave me a filthy look. WTF? I was kind of baffled. When they pull off to the side, we were at least 20 yards behind them, and were about to turn off to a side trail.
    I do my own thing. I ride my bike and have fun

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Doug, I love ya man, but I disagree 100%. Some yahoo listening to music, whether said yahoo can hear me or not, is not a safety issue. The only real safety issue is the rider him/her-self.
    Well, in my point of view it absolutely is a safety issue, and not just for us mountain bikers.

    If I were on a horse and came upon one of these Ipod hikers, what would I do? Ask my horse to lick the hiker to get them to move over? Nope. What I've seen time and time again in this situation is that the horse rider veers WAY off into the desert to walk around the hiker. And guess what can happen? That horse, being off-trail, not only damages the desert but has a higher % of falling than if it were walking on the trail.

    I've seen hikers collide with trail runners coming from behind. The hiker, hearing the trail runner's shouts only at the last second, decides to step the wrong way without looking behind him/her...and bam...they collide.

    Being oblivious to your surroundings IS a safety issue. I'd like to hear from you how it is not.

    There is a reason driving with headphones on is illegal...and for the same reasons people need to take more care and turn DOWN their music while on the trails.

    I'm not an anti-Ipod guy. I just wish people had the courtesy to be more aware.

    Thx...Doug

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi

    Being oblivious to your surroundings IS a safety issue. I'd like to hear from you how it is not.
    Yeah DirDir where are you going with that?. The analogy comparing road bikes and cars to Mtbr's and hikers is far from airtight in making your point. I realy don't get how the situation is similar at all.
    The fact that driving with two headphones is illegal in many states is holds up the safety point pretty well.

    However, to remain on topic. I love winter, but hate the crowds. the worst is the school groups. 2x last year I came across a group of at least 100 kids hiking National with their teachers.

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    Henry likes to scare old people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    But we suck way less right?

    Yeah, Moe, that team sure did suck last night. They just plain sucked! I've seen teams
    suck before, but they were the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked!
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  33. #33
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    its important to let them know you're coming, but it's so hard nowadays to find a good ghetto-blaster mount for your handlebars

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    Quote Originally Posted by orangedog
    begin training appropriately...

    I guess that fan got what was comming to him,
    Its alittle different approch but Im sure very effective none the less .

  35. #35
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    Be it biker, hiker or someone on horseback! Not being able to hear your surroundings is not being respectful to all that use the trail system. For the most part 99 percent of people hear me and step aside. I say thank you and move on. That other 1 percent are always going to be an a$$ if they have their preferred MP3 player on or not. This is just my personal observation while riding our fine trials in AZ.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    Be it biker, hiker or someone on horseback! Not being able to hear your surroundings is not being respectful to all that use the trail system.
    *scratches head*. How do you figure? How did start out with "hey, the trails are crowded" to a "grumpy hikers and those listening to their ipods are disrespectful"?

    DirDir hit it on the nail: the only reason we have issues is that they (hikers, slower bikers, etc.) disrupt our flow, pure and simple. We hate it when we assume somebody is impeding us.

    And the whole "grumpy hiker" thing, I never got it. How much is it assumption? Because they are not smiling, or overly friendly, we assume they are grumpy, or angry that a biker had to make them step aside to pass. Hell, 90% of the hikers I pass have a scowl on their face. Perhaps its because they are startled by a biking flying down the trails, scared that the biker might run them over. Maybe it's because they are tired. Or maybe hiking gives them time to think and reflect, and maybe they are thinking about something unpleasant (work, a lost loved one, etc.). WHO CARES????

    And to comment on their weight, clothes, etc. Come on guys, are you being serious? That is about the most shallow thing I think I've read on this site EVER.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chongoman
    Yeah DirDir where are you going with that?. The analogy comparing road bikes and cars to Mtbr's and hikers is far from airtight in making your point. I realy don't get how the situation is similar at all.
    The fact that driving with two headphones is illegal in many states is holds up the safety point pretty well.

    However, to remain on topic. I love winter, but hate the crowds. the worst is the school groups. 2x last year I came across a group of at least 100 kids hiking National with their teachers.
    The analogy is really simple. This all boils down to the fact that too many mountain bikers are god awful unhappy with the fact that they may have to slow down for a nano-moment on shared trails. It is about precious flow and not safety. Same can be said for drivers. They hate to slow down for bikers, even for a nano-second, because it delays their precious commute to work or wherever they are rushing off too.

    This is not driving and I am not comparing this to driving with headphones.

    I think your point about the school kids 100% underscores my point about anti-iPoders. It has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with precious flow, territorial control, oligarchical enforcemement and so on and so forth. I see 100 kids hiking SoMo and it puts a giant smile on my face.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  38. #38
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    At least they are wearing head phones! If we're gonna jump on the hate wagon.....where's the hate for the people that walk or bike with a little radio/sleaker system so ALL the world can enjoy their personal taste in music/political views.




    As always, the answer to all MTBR hate threads.......go ride your bike more.
    b

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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi

    Being oblivious to your surroundings IS a safety issue. I'd like to hear from you how it is not.
    How is wearing an ipod the trail being oblivious to ones surroundings? If you run into me because I don't hear you, it's your fault, not mine.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    The analogy is really simple. This all boils down to the fact that too many mountain bikers are god awful unhappy with the fact that they may have to slow down for a nano-moment on shared trails. It is about precious flow and not safety. Same can be said for drivers. They hate to slow down for bikers, even for a nano-second, because it delays their precious commute to work or wherever they are rushing off too.

    This is not driving and I am not comparing this to driving with headphones.

    I think your point about the school kids 100% underscores my point about anti-iPoders. It has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with precious flow, territorial control, oligarchical enforcemement and so on and so forth. I see 100 kids hiking SoMo and it puts a giant smile on my face.

    Amen! It's the weekend warrior XC racer geeks that think they are spancerd and every frickin ride is a race. This is why tend to ride more DH/FR oriented trails because I find the general 'tude to be non existent, even to a rookie like myself.

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    I couldn't careless about flow!!!! I'm not some racer boy trying to pound out laps! I'm respectful to all on the trials and that means being able to hear someone. I don't care if someone has their tunes while on the trial system. Just keep it at a volume so you can hear others as to not be startled when someone attempts to pass carefully.
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    DirDir's annual anti-precious flow post...

    everyone wants their flow on the trail whatever they are riding or walking. All Doug is saying is that you should acknowledge multi-use means cooperate, not isolate yourself. Its not about stopping and losing flow, its about rudeness. I agree that its great when 100 kids or Senior or whatever are on the trail, but just like when bikers are in a group of 20 and take pains to be extra polite to those we pass en masse (or, piss off by blowing off the trail), it should go both ways. Simple - be nice, be aware, share.
    Last edited by chollaball; 10-12-2009 at 09:08 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Amen! It's the weekend warrior XC racer geeks that think they are spancerd and every frickin ride is a race. This is why tend to ride more DH/FR oriented trails because I find the general 'tude to be non existent, even to a rookie like myself.
    rookie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    I couldn't careless about flow!!!! I'm not some racer boy trying to pound out laps! I'm respectful to all on the trials and that means being able to hear someone. I don't care if someone has their tunes while on the trial system. Just keep it at a volume so you can hear others as to not be startled when someone attempts to pass carefully.
    careless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    rookie.

    Wookie

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Now iit is a safety issue? Huh? Let's all get real for just a moment here. The most dangerous thing on the trail is a bike and the biggest cause of harm is the rider himself.

    Ipods a danger issue. Give me a break.

    And I think you missed the road bike comparison. Perhaps this was my fault as I may not have been clear. Drivers see bike riders as usurpers of the road. These drivers are often unwilling to slow down, even for a moment, because of a cyclist that may be obstructing suchg driver's "precious flow" to wherever the hell they are going. The bike riders are just out for a good time. Same goes for the mountain bike riders v. iPoders. These bikers are unwilling to sacrifice a moment of their "precious flow" because some guy decided it owuld be nice to have a hike with some music. Unbeleivable.

    anger.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    DirDir's annual anti-precious flow post...

    everyone wants their flow on the trail whatever they are riding or walking. All Doug is saying is that you should acknowledge multi-use means cooperate, not isolate yourself. I agree that its great when 100 kids or Senior or whatever are on the trail, but just like when bikers are in a group of 20 and take pains to be extra polite to those we pass en masse (or, piss off by blowing off the trail), it should go both ways. Simple - be nice, be aware, share.
    In all honesty, how many have purposefully tried to impeded you while on the trail? In the 7+ years of riding the trails in Phoenix proper, I can recall once a hiker refusing to let me pass her. And in that specific instance, it was no big deal. I just waited for a wide part of the trail, and rode around her with no incident (at least as far as I was concerned).

    I honestly could care less if somebody is nice or not to me. I don't know there situation, and if they want to be grumpy, angry, whatever, that's fine. I'll be nice to them no matter what. But do I expect them to be nice back to me? Nope. I will say that we as bikers really should try to go out of our way to be cordial to other hikers, but that's more to promote the sport, and to keep the bull's eye off our backs. But I know there have been plenty of times I've gone out on a ride in a bad mood, and the last thing I want to do is say "hi" to everybody I come across.

    Regarding the sharing, well, I think that's a given.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Wookie
    oh hey - I have the coordinates for some patch kits out in PMP - In case things are going bad with tubes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    careless.
    totally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    In all honesty, how many have purposefully tried to impeded you while on the trail? In the 7+ years of riding the trails in Phoenix proper, I can recall once a hiker refusing to let me pass her. And in that specific instance, it was no big deal. I just waited for a wide part of the trail, and rode around her with no incident (at least as far as I was concerned).

    I honestly could care less if somebody is nice or not to me. I don't know there situation, and if they want to be grumpy, angry, whatever, that's fine. I'll be nice to them no matter what. But do I expect them to be nice back to me? Nope. I will say that we as bikers really should try to go out of our way to be cordial to other hikers, but that's more to promote the sport, and to keep the bull's eye off our backs. But I know there have been plenty of times I've gone out on a ride in a bad mood, and the last thing I want to do is say "hi" to everybody I come across.

    Regarding the sharing, well, I think that's a given.
    Generally, I ride with flow, taking into consideration everything of note on the trail/street/path/canal and dealing with it in an intelligent and efficient manner. To do otherwise is chaos.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    careless.
    [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']oblivious[/FONT]
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    In all honesty, how many have purposefully tried to impeded you while on the trail? In the 7+ years of riding the trails in Phoenix proper, I can recall once a hiker refusing to let me pass her. And in that specific instance, it was no big deal. I just waited for a wide part of the trail, and rode around her with no incident (at least as far as I was concerned).

    I honestly could care less if somebody is nice or not to me. I don't know there situation, and if they want to be grumpy, angry, whatever, that's fine. I'll be nice to them no matter what. But do I expect them to be nice back to me? Nope. I will say that we as bikers really should try to go out of our way to be cordial to other hikers, but that's more to promote the sport, and to keep the bull's eye off our backs. But I know there have been plenty of times I've gone out on a ride in a bad mood, and the last thing I want to do is say "hi" to everybody I come across.

    Regarding the sharing, well, I think that's a given.
    when I say nice, I mean share. If someone gives me a smile or not, I really dont care. But if they work with me to share the trail even with a scowl, that is good enough. I'm fine on DC with the racer types or power joggers, just work with me. I say hello etc. to most people just as a way of communicating my good intentions, most times its all it takes to ensure a good situation.

    If I give someone multiple polite warnings and they won't let me by or don't hear me, I just blow by. Others have their opinions, mine is that I am sharing and if they isolate themselves, that becomes their problem. If they acknowledge me, I'm happy to do whatever is needed to ensure a good pass for everyone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    oh hey - I have the coordinates for some patch kits out in PMP - In case things are going bad with tubes.

    Why would I want your old, crusted and farted on patch kit.

    I found out you don't get many flats with DH tires.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Why would I want your old, crusted and farted on patch kit.

    I found out you don't get many flats with DH tires.
    and you don't get many miles out of them either.

  55. #55
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    I Have Had Enough!

    Yeti said and I agree,

    Generally, I ride with flow, taking into consideration everything of note on the trail/street/path/canal and dealing with it in an intelligent and efficient manner. To do otherwise is chaos.

    I say and agree,

    I say put Ipods on horses and dogs. Put cars on trails. Put leashes on humans(hikers runners), picking up their own sh!t and destroy all path/canals would be dealing with it all in an intelligent and efficient manner. To do otherwise is chaos.

    Thx,
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']oblivious[/FONT]

    It's this kinda of topic crap that's tearing this forum apart. Respect your elders mang

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    It's this kinda of topic crap that's tearing this forum apart. Respect your elders mang
    Yes mother, but I'm as old or older.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    Yes mother, but I'm as old or older.
    hooligan.

  59. #59
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    DirDir hit it on the nail: the only reason we have issues is that they (hikers, slower bikers, etc.) disrupt our flow, pure and simple. We hate it when we assume somebody is impeding us.
    You're speaking for yourself on this one. We are not all of the same mindset. Is it so hard to believe that some of us are genuinely courteous trail users and not selfish? Weird.

    When I ride a crowded SoMo I fully expect a lack of flow, and I know going out there that I will be yielding to hikers and school kids, and grandparents...and I'm fine with that or I wouldn't go out there on a Saturday morning in the first place. I want to pass people without scaring them or causing conflict, plain and simple. I have respect for other users on any multipurpose trail and freaking them out b/c they can't hear me wishing to pass them is never my intention, but it happens. To suggest that it is my fault they can't hear others around them (or shouldn't have to) is well.....I don't know, how can one even argue with such a myopic viewpoint?

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    hooligan.
    Roadie
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    You're speaking for yourself on this one. We are not all of the same mindset. Is it so hard to believe that some of us are genuinely courteous trail users and not selfish? Weird.

    When I ride a crowded SoMo I fully expect a lack of flow, and I know going out there that I will be yielding to hikers and school kids, and grandparents...and I'm fine with that or I wouldn't go out there on a Saturday morning in the first place. I want to pass people without scaring them or causing conflict, plain and simple. I have respect for other users on any multipurpose trail and freaking them out b/c they can't hear me wishing to pass them is never my intention, but it happens.
    I was using the "we have issues" to refer to those who ***** and moan about the number of hikers on the trail, and using the "but they are wearing ipods and are oblivious to their surroundings" as an excuse to complain.

    I personally have no issues with hikers.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I was using the "we have issues" to refer to those who ***** and moan about the number of hikers on the trail, and using the "but they are wearing ipods and are oblivious to their surroundings" as an excuse to complain.

    I personally have no issues with hikers.
    Sorry then for implying otherwise........I misunderstood.

    I need to take a long lunch and go ride. Think I'll bring my bike tomorrow. Natty should be clear at noon

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    It's not too different than driving a car on a public road, right? If someone is driving with a
    stereo cranked so loud that they are oblivious to the emergency vehicle that is out of site,
    but headed their way...



    It could be that the trail users that need to be heard during a passing situation are indeed
    an emergency response team, right? Is it OK for someone in their way to be oblivious
    because their music is cranked up too loud?
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  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Patrick
    It's not too different than driving a car on a public road, right? If someone is driving with a
    stereo cranked so loud that they are oblivious to the emergency vehicle that is out of site,
    but headed their way...



    It could be that the trail users that need to be heard during a passing situation are indeed
    an emergency response team, right? Is it OK for someone in their way to be oblivious
    because their music is cranked up too loud?
    Either way, it's the emergency vehicle's responsibility to pass as safely as possible, whether the car pulls over or not, no?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Sorry then for implying otherwise........I misunderstood.

    I need to take a long lunch and go ride. Think I'll bring my bike tomorrow. Natty should be clear at noon
    I am looking to ride ~1-1:30 on Tuesday, after a dentist appt. near Somo. Does that work for you? PM me if so and you can be a little flexible about start time. 24th St. is calling!!
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    Here in Prescott I once heard a story about a person on a bike coming across another person on foot.

    Sounds far fetched to me. I've heard of other trail users, I've just never seen them in the flesh.

  68. #68
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    I have noticed a huge increase in trail users on T100. When it was 110 outside, I would ride at 4pm and be the only one parked at the 40th street lot. Last week, when it was 82 outside, I couldn't find a parking spot.

    I've never really had any issue with any other trail users: hikers, bikers, or horse riders. There are the hikers or runners wearing ipods that don't know I'm there, but honestly, I've had that problem with other mtb'ers too. 99% of trail users I've encountered, no matter what type of user they are, are courteous and let me pass with no problem, and I do the same for them. That 1% of users that have a problem will have a problem with everyone they encounter on the trail, not just bikers.

    The only issue I've really ever had was with an older gentleman. He was walking the trail, going the opposite way, and stepped off the trail so I could pass on my mtb. I said Thank You as I went by. I turned around a couple miles later and passed him again, saying Thank You as I passed. I heard him say "You should try saying Thank You next time!". I stopped and talked to him for a second, realizing he was a little hard of hearing, and told him I had said Thank you both times I passed. He quickly apologized for being a bit testy and we had a laugh over it.

    It's just that time of year when the trails are going to be crowded. The bikers are complaining about the hikers, the hikers about the bikers, and the equestrians about everybody, but we still have to share the trail and try to be courteous to each other.
    "Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation".

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    I think a better analogy to what is going on here is this: Over the weekend I got grumpy at some chump who took forever in the grocery store line, by pulling out a wad of expired cupons and arguing with the cashier while I am trying to get my precious grocery flow on. I work full time and I only have so many chaces in a week to satisfy my produce groove.

    During the winter months phoenix trails become more like the crowd you run into at grocery stores who stand in the aisles forever and squeeze produce to pulp and put it back on the shelf.

  70. #70
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    I'm just a driver out for a good time so I swerve at roadies and ride illegal trails to avoid the "crowds".
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    Roadie
    I was getting closer, then I was snubbed by two roadies on Saturday, so now I harbor nothing but the deepest, darkest hatred for them.

    And just about every other trail user.

    Henry doesn't play well with others.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdog
    I'm just a driver out for a good time so I swerve at roadies and ride illegal trails to avoid the "crowds".
    I've seen azdog intentionally stand up and sprint his bike into groups of small children.

    The horror!

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Either way, it's the emergency vehicle's responsibility to pass as safely as possible, whether the car pulls over or not, no?
    Sure. And if the oblivious driver blocks long enough, someone in need dies, but oh well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    I've seen azdog intentionally stand up and sprint his bike into groups of small children.

    The horror!
    This post is worthless without pics. Share the love.
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  75. #75
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    We still going to do the roadie loop down to the Tempe Town lake? I'll wear an MP3 player so we won't have to speak with each other!
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    We still going to do the roadie loop down to the Tempe Town lake? I'll wear an MP3 player so we won't have to speak with each other!
    I hope so, let me know what day works for you.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Patrick
    Sure. And if the oblivious driver blocks long enough, someone in need dies, but oh well?
    Wow, are you comparing wearing an ipod on the trail to death? Pretty extreme dontcha think?

    I'm curious how you plan to enforce this on the trail. Will rangers check hikers'/riders' volume levels.

    And for the record, I don't EVER listen to music while out on the trail.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    I hope so, let me know what day works for you.
    oh,hey,thanks for the invite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    oh,hey,thanks for the invite.
    I thought you hated DH riders?

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    Just need to get one of my lights back from a friend. Maybe this weekend and we can hit up a pub or two along the way.

    Invite
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Wow, are you comparing wearing an ipod on the trail to death? Pretty extreme dontcha think?
    In other words, you got nothing and I win the debate?



    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I'm curious how you plan to enforce this on the trail. Will rangers check hikers'/riders' volume levels.
    If they don't seem to hear and acknowlege the warnings from behind, pushing them out of
    the trail is fair game. Just an idea. Heck, I'd put cattle-catchers on emergency response
    vehicles too.

    Enforced!

    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    And for the record, I don't EVER listen to music while out on the trail.
    Neither do I. So, we're both cool?

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  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by trb2929
    Just need to get one of my lights back from a friend. Maybe this weekend and we can hit up a pub or two along the way.

    Invite
    Killer!

    Yes, invite!

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Patrick
    In other words, you got nothing and I win the debate?





    If they don't seem to hear and acknowlege the warnings from behind, pushing them out of
    the trail is fair game. Just an idea. Heck, I'd put cattle-catchers on emergency response
    vehicles too.

    Enforced!



    Neither do I. So, we're both cool?

    I was told that a debate is not considered over until one compares the other to the Nazis. That said, I think you're extreme view of those wearing ipods is Hitleresk.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Patrick
    It's not too different than driving a car on a public road, right? If someone is driving with a
    stereo cranked so loud that they are oblivious to the emergency vehicle that is out of site,
    but headed their way...



    It could be that the trail users that need to be heard during a passing situation are indeed
    an emergency response team, right? Is it OK for someone in their way to be oblivious
    because their music is cranked up too loud?
    Hypothetically speaking, I suppose it is pssoible that an iPod'er out on the trail impedes an emergency response team. Nonetheless, this hypothetical brings to mind the old "meteor from the sky crashing into earth" type cliche often used to debunk nonsensical positions that utilize "anything is possible" type scenarios to counter logic.

    If one wants to really make comparisons or utilize hypotehicals on the issue at hand, one simply needs to examine the situation in connection with a deaf hiker or deaf driver.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    I thought you hated DH riders?
    oh no! Just specific ones!

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    DirDir's annual anti-precious flow post...

    everyone wants their flow on the trail whatever they are riding or walking. All Doug is saying is that you should acknowledge multi-use means cooperate, not isolate yourself. Its not about stopping and losing flow, its about rudeness. I agree that its great when 100 kids or Senior or whatever are on the trail, but just like when bikers are in a group of 20 and take pains to be extra polite to those we pass en masse (or, piss off by blowing off the trail), it should go both ways. Simple - be nice, be aware, share.
    To me, as to iPod'ers, there is simply no rudeness.

    To me, as a biker, who, per the rules, is required to yield to hikers whether they are hiking away or towards me, properly dealing with iPod "bottle neck" situations means I am the one that should bear the burden. This burden is about as di minimis as it gets.

    Things need to be put into perspective. There are numerous factors bikers seem to disregard. We are the fastest users out there. We are stigmatized and are closer to the fringe and/or expulsion from the trails than any other user. We have big, fast, heavy machines that can be intimidating. Hikers should not have to worry about what is behind them all the time and should not fear being run over. They should bring their kids and walk 5 abreast. Listening to music and totally isolating oneself like that is exactly the kind of recreation these trails are meant for. I want people to enjoy themselves out there and I don't care how loud their headphones are. I have bigger problems dealing with the stench coming from my ass than I do with iPod'ers. And yes, all of us have stenchy asses despite the anticpated responses I know I will see here.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    To me, as to iPod'ers, there is simply no rudeness.

    To me, as a biker, who, per the rules, is required to yield to hikers whether they are hiking away or towards me, properly dealing with iPod "bottle neck" situations means I am the one that should bear the burden. This burden is about as di minimis as it gets.

    Things need to be put into perspective. There are numerous factors bikers seem to disregard. We are the fastest users out there. We are stigmatized and are closer to the fringe and/or expulsion from the trails than any other user. We have big, fast, heavy machines that can be intimidating. Hikers should not have to worry about what is behind them all the time and should not fear being run over. They should bring their kids and walk 5 abreast. Listening to music and totally isolating oneself like that is exactly the kind of recreation these trails are meant for. I want people to enjoy themselves out there and I don't care how loud their headphones are. I have bigger problems dealing with the stench coming from my ass than I do with iPod'ers. And yes, all of us have stenchy asses despite the anticpated responses I know I will see here.
    I applaud EDR's world class use of the term myopic. Slow clueless people walking 5 abreast block the other hiker who might be asking to pass. Fault, rules, blah blah blah - I'm a very nice guy on the trail and dozens of people on this forum will attest to that, but *ANYONE* out in public who does not pay heed to what is around them is contributing to their own problems. DirDir simply empowers them with the yakkity yak to justfiy the solipsism.
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  88. #88
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    I enjoy seeing the people out for a hike on a Saturday or Sunday morning. I one of the folks that always says Hi and tries to be polite when I pass them. Im not too concerned about flow at 8am on the weekend. Usually I am just out to have fun on my Mountain bike. I am more focused on my Road bike since I am afraid of being killed by a car. Yes the Ipod zombies do bother me because I see it as being rude that they don't respond and act like they own the trail. The only rude hiker I have came across yet was this extremely obese man on the Telegraph Pass side of DC who was covered in sweat and bent over trying to catch his breath and had no water. I was trying to be polite and asked if he was ok, when he yells "I'm fine". I tend to find more rude wanabe XC racers on DC than anything. Just wish I had the balls to hit up National more often. Seems like a more laid back nicer group.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    I applaud EDR's world class use of the term myopic. Slow clueless people walking 5 abreast block the other hiker who might be asking to pass. Fault, rules, blah blah blah - I'm a very nice guy on the trail and dozens of people on this forum will attest to that, but *ANYONE* out in public who does not pay heed to what is around them is contributing to their own problems. DirDir simply empowers them with the yakkity yak to justfiy the solipsism.
    This is a giant load of horse pucky. There are no teams of five blocking anyone on purpose out on the trails. Using the term "pay heed" under these cirsumtances indicates you view this situation as if you were fighting a war.

    This is not yakkity yak. This is about a bunch of elitists with tightly puckered anal tubes complaining about ipods.

    Times I crashed because of my behavior: Countless
    Times I crashed because somebody else used an iPod: None
    I AM JUST A JERK

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    This is a giant load of horse pucky. There are no teams of five blocking anyone on purpose out on the trails. Using the term "pay heed" under these cirsumtances indicates you view this situation as if you were fighting a war.

    This is not yakkity yak. This is about a bunch of elitists with tightly puckered anal tubes complaining about ipods.

    Times I crashed because of my behavior: Countless
    Times I crashed because somebody else used an iPod: None
    dude, go to the grocery store with your kids and act like no one else exists in the world...see how long til you get your kid hurt and smash half the $h!t in the store.

    some people have common sense and awareness. some become lawyers.
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  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    dude, go to the grocery store with your kids and act like no one else exists in the world...see how long til you get your kid hurt and smash half the $h!t in the store.

    some people have common sense and awareness. some become lawyers.
    No way man, I've had to yank my kids out of the way of idiots with carts more than a dozen times.. Heck, they've hit me.. and I'm kinda hard to miss.
    mike

  92. #92
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    If I riding solo, I'm usually drunk and listening to music way too loud. Watch out.

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    dude, go to the grocery store with your kids and act like no one else exists in the world...see how long til you get your kid hurt and smash half the $h!t in the store.

    some people have common sense and awareness. some become lawyers.
    And the nexus between grocery stores and hikers using iPods is what?

    Some people can argue logically and make sense and others shop at the grocery store with kids.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  94. #94
    Mike-e
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmarkos
    If I riding solo, I'm usually drunk and listening to music way too loud. Watch out.

    Only when you ride solo? I didnt know there was any other way to ride The only person that bothers me while riding with an ipod is Joey, but I just smash into him/ knock him down to get his attention

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    And the nexus between grocery stores and hikers using iPods is what?

    Some people can argue logically and make sense and others shop at the grocery store with kids.
    The connection between these two is that they are people who are often oblivious and annoying. It is fun to complain about them when they come out in droves which happens in the winter here.
    The grocery store is a great place to see annoying behavior so it is a good example.

  96. #96
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    Hell, if I was to act like some of those kids that are seen in stores today when I was younger... I would be buried somewhere. My Dad liked to whoop @$$, even left a permanent mark on my forehead.


  97. #97
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    Hope Phoenix is just getting too big.

    I came out here from LA back in 2006 and I can tell you first hand the trails here are usually more crowded than the trails in LA County. Back there the Climbs discourage a lot of people. You need to be a good climber and have good brakes. Yeah there are way too many people on the trails, I remember doing Camelback on Sat Mornings, it was almost like rush hour traffic. Kinda cool because there were a lot of chicks.

    Yeah I think it's lame when people on the trail are blasting an I Pod, I play one really low like back ground music, On Road rides, MTN and Hikes. Some times I uses the I Pod like a timer to use a certain playlist for the given duration then make the last song a different Genre then turn around. I pods are like guns they don't kill people, people kill people
    SF
    Who cares how much gas you save, ride your bike to work because it's fun!!!!!!!

  98. #98
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    Courtesy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Now iit is a safety issue? Huh? Let's all get real for just a moment here. The most dangerous thing on the trail is a bike and the biggest cause of harm is the rider himself.

    Ipods a danger issue. Give me a break.

    And I think you missed the road bike comparison. Perhaps this was my fault as I may not have been clear. Drivers see bike riders as usurpers of the road. These drivers are often unwilling to slow down, even for a moment, because of a cyclist that may be obstructing suchg driver's "precious flow" to wherever the hell they are going. The bike riders are just out for a good time. Same goes for the mountain bike riders v. iPoders. These bikers are unwilling to sacrifice a moment of their "precious flow" because some guy decided it owuld be nice to have a hike with some music. Unbeleivable.
    Yes it is unbelievable, I don't see a saftey issue either. I see it strickly as a courtesy issue. Having the right of way on a trail and being a complete rude DA are complete polar issues. I ride on the road ALOT, I too get pissed at roadies that don't use the shoulder when possible and ride at a width that will not allow passing, like try bartlett lake road on a sunday morning with all the people riding two and three wide.

    Courtesy, nothing more, ya know like when some punk in the crosswalk just glares at you and knows he's in the right and gives you that s*#t eatin grin. Dirdir, don't be him, because that's what your advocating

    Chip

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo
    Dirdir, don't be him, because that's what your advocating

    Chip
    I am advocating against elitism and false entitlement and name calling. Let's just get rid of all the comparisons because no one seems to understand them. Let's also understand that I encounter "complete rude DA's" out on the trail perhaps less than 1% of the time.

    Everybody wants to highlight the fact that there are so many a$$holes out there. However, the fact remains that the vast majority of people are not acting like a$$holes. They are hiking and trying to enjoy themselves.

    Everyone wants to highlight personal responsibility. How about some of you people taking personal responsibility for your own actions. Clustering people into groups, making fun of their weight, their clothes, their walking abreast techniques and their head phone habits all stinks. Labeling them idiots and dumba$$es and the like stinks even more.

    We are not debating whether some a$$ clown that purposely refuses to allow a biker to pass is a *******e or not. We are debating whether an inadvertant delay caused by people listening to music warrants labeling them as idiots. It does not.

    You people sure like to gang pile on the whack job lawyer that likes to rant once a year about "precious flow". Fine, turn this into another there goes Dirdir again thread if you like. The fact remains that people that hike with music don't deserve to be labeled idiots regardless of whether they can hear you or not.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  100. #100
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    Courtesy, nothing more, ya know like when some punk in the crosswalk just glares at you and knows he's in the right and gives you that s*#t eatin grin. Dirdir, don't be him, because that's what your advocating

    Chip[/QUOTE]

    Advocating being a punk?
    WTF?
    Have any of you been guilty of not paying attention on the trail?

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