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  1. #1
    I am the Tin Man!
    Reputation: grizzlyplumber's Avatar
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    Tell me why I shouldnt jump a "reclaimed" trail

    Riding yesterday on a trail I havent been on for a few months and I come up to a fork where I have always turned right, well there are rocks and logs piled up to keep anyone from riding that way and I got really pissed.
    I know all of the standard answers of erosion and scarring the landscape, this is out in the middle of the frickin desert and how exactly do you think those hills got there in the first place? Maybe it was erosion!
    So what do-good busy body is trying to tell me that my erosion is harmful but his erosion is not? That trail was there for years before some know-it-all closed it off. Probably the same idiots who took the sulfur out of my diesel fuel and are trying to sell me carbon credits.
    So tell me why I should not cross the barrier and ride the trail anyway.
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  2. #2
    Tucson, AZ
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    b/c Obama's favorite beer is Bud Lt

  3. #3
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
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    I take it you were riding Hawes and came to the trail which was closed off back in FEB where it dumps into the wash heading north from the lower portion of mudflaps.....correct?




  4. #4
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    Spend 5 minutes removing the rocks and logs and ride your trail. Screw the hippie *******s that put em there.

  5. #5
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
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    there are many potential answers - erosion, wildlife preservation, managed trail system, private land etc. Without knowing the specific trail, I cant give you an answer (and I am certainly no expert).

    However, it is at least fair to respectfully call out your attitude that "you know better" when clearly you were not part of the decision . If you really want to know why, get involved in the trail system maintenance\volunteer group\talk to rangers\etc and then you can make an informed decision. Just riding on something cause you're pissed off and used to it is not a good justification.
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  6. #6
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyplumber
    Riding yesterday on a trail I havent been on for a few months and I come up to a fork where I have always turned right, well there are rocks and logs piled up to keep anyone from riding that way and I got really pissed.
    I know all of the standard answers of erosion and scarring the landscape, this is out in the middle of the frickin desert and how exactly do you think those hills got there in the first place? Maybe it was erosion!
    So what do-good busy body is trying to tell me that my erosion is harmful but his erosion is not? That trail was there for years before some know-it-all closed it off. Probably the same idiots who took the sulfur out of my diesel fuel and are trying to sell me carbon credits.
    So tell me why I should not cross the barrier and ride the trail anyway.
    if this was the Hawes spider trails Maad refers to, in that particular case we had the specific approval of the Rangers who manage the land. And there were about 20 people from MTBR, MBAA and Missing Link clubs participating - many of whom have done hundreds of hours of trail work. This was hardly a bunch of do-gooders, but rather concerned and active mtbrs. and next time you ride Mudflaps and enjoy it being single track instead of a giant washed-out scab on the hill it had become, please at least acknowledge the decisions and process that contributed to that effort. Agree, or not, but I haven't personally heard a single person say the trail was better prior to the fixup.

    pbbreath - you are uninformed if you think trails are built and closed by hippies. Spend a little time on this or any other mtb forum, and hopefully your attitude will change.
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  7. #7
    I think I need to Upgrade
    Reputation: AzSpeedfreek's Avatar
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    Generaly when I see a trail that is closed by a decision making party there is some kind of sign that is put up instead of debris placed across the trail that looks like some wanna be trail steward decided that he/she knows what is best for the trail.

  8. #8
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSpeedfreek
    Generaly when I see a trail that is closed by a decision making party there is some kind of sign that is put up instead of debris placed across the trail that looks like some wanna be trail steward decided that he/she knows what is best for the trail.
    in the case of Hawes, there were signs. but that was going on 6 months ago. A good point though. Might be time to print out a few more.
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  9. #9
    pedaller
    Reputation: Noelg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzSpeedfreek
    Generaly when I see a trail that is closed by a decision making party there is some kind of sign that is put up instead of debris placed across the trail that looks like some wanna be trail steward decided that he/she knows what is best for the trail.
    In speaking with a Ranger at South Mountain, I was told they prefer to NOT have to use signs to close spider trails since they feel it detracts from the natural elements of the trails. In many cases they prefer using rocks or even some pruned branches. I said that I thought people were more likely to IGNORE that and plead ignorance if caught (ie: I didn't notice the trail was closed) whereas they would have a harder time with that argument if they had to hike right past a sign.
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  10. #10
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    There are quite a few trails that have been "naturally obstructed" up here on the flanks of Mt. Elden. It is usually pretty obvious, and the couple times I have explored them anyways it was also obvious why the trail had been closed. Most of the time, there is a better riding, better maintained trail that follows approximately the same route anyways. Personally, I don't need to see signs up everywhere in the forest telling me where I can and cannot ride. And I'll leave it to the people who actually have the time and commitment to build and maintain the trails to make it clear where to ride, and respect the (usually rather well informed) decisions they make.

    I've worked on rebuilding and re-routing trails before, and though I do not have the time to commit to doing so now, it is something that I think everyone should do at least once. It isn't like the majority of mountain bike trails are public thoroughfares with "your tax dollars at work." They are creations of people volunteering their time to provide space for all of us to practice our passion.

    Now, if someone closed a trail that I had personally built, I might have to ask why... I might even be upset by it. But otherwise, nope... I'll ride happily elsewhere.

  11. #11
    I think I need to Upgrade
    Reputation: AzSpeedfreek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    In speaking with a Ranger at South Mountain, I was told they prefer to NOT have to use signs to close spider trails since they feel it detracts from the natural elements of the trails. In many cases they prefer using rocks or even some pruned branches. I said that I thought people were more likely to IGNORE that and plead ignorance if caught (ie: I didn't notice the trail was closed) whereas they would have a harder time with that argument if they had to hike right past a sign.

    If the trail is closed then instead of pileing up debris across it and or signs then how about planting something like a tree/bush or cactus? Many times I have seen wanna be trail stewards pile up debris across trails that aren't supposed to be closed.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyplumber
    Riding yesterday on a trail I havent been on for a few months and I come up to a fork where I have always turned right, well there are rocks and logs piled up to keep anyone from riding that way and I got really pissed.
    I know all of the standard answers of erosion and scarring the landscape, this is out in the middle of the frickin desert and how exactly do you think those hills got there in the first place? Maybe it was erosion!
    So what do-good busy body is trying to tell me that my erosion is harmful but his erosion is not? That trail was there for years before some know-it-all closed it off. Probably the same idiots who took the sulfur out of my diesel fuel and are trying to sell me carbon credits.
    So tell me why I should not cross the barrier and ride the trail anyway.
    So now the idiots who took the sulfur out of your diesel are blocking your trails? I'm amazed you're coping so well........

    The constant persecution must be unbearable.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

  13. #13
    I'm with stupid -------->
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapaso
    So now the idiots who took the sulfur out of your diesel are blocking your trails? I'm amazed you're coping so well........

    The constant persecution must be unbearable.
    HAHAHA Classic.

  14. #14
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
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    I have to admit, my truck runs better on Mexican Diesel... 500 ppm sulfur

  15. #15
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    Could Be

    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    I have to admit, my truck runs better on Mexican Diesel... 500 ppm sulfur
    Shouldn't make a difference, but you never know. The trend toward cleaner burning fuels is necessary. Burning sulfur is noxious and the acid it creates is hard on your engine in other ways. I like diesels and do procurement for a company that has fleet of both small and large trucks, no problems yet. YMMV. I lived in Phoenix for a couple years, the pollution sucked. I have a hard time understanding why anyone in Phoenix wouldn't be happy to see it get better.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

  16. #16
    Meatbomb
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    lol... never said anything about not wanting the pollution to get better.. just a simple statement that my truck runs better off 500ppm fuel. big stretch there.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    lol... never said anything about not wanting the pollution to get better.. just a simple statement that my truck runs better off 500ppm fuel. big stretch there.
    Sorry didn't mean it like that.Poor choice of wording on my part.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

  18. #18
    Meatbomb
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizzlyplumber
    So tell me why I should not cross the barrier and ride the trail anyway.
    Because bunny hopping anything over three inches is too dangerous!!!

    I live by somo and my neighbor is a self proclaimed trail hiking guru that chooses which trails should not have bicycles. I usually stop and throw those rocks off of the trail so they have to work to get more next time.

  20. #20
    livin' the dream......
    Reputation: tjkm's Avatar
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    With the exeption of State Trust land, any land you ride around the Valley is public land, most likely managed by a city, county, the forest service or blm. This would also mean there are professional staff & volunteers out there engaged in managing the resource.

    I have worked as both staff for an agency and as a volunteer, and everyone does things just a bit differently. I know Phoenix rangers, and know they don't like putting up 50 signs out in the preserves. About 10% of trail users will ignore it anyway, so they try to keep it natural and use debris/rocks to alert you to a closure.

    Using downed brush and planting cactus on the closed trail normally works a bit better, but I've seen social trails pop up around these "official" closures and then we are back where we started.

    I have no patience for trail faries who take it upon themselves to do "what is right" in thier opinion for the resource. I have taken these unofficial closures down when I was on staff.

    Others said it well, if you want input into managment decisons, do it the correct way. Volunteer, build a relationship with the land managers and be a good trail user.

    It chaps my a$$ to see and hear people defy the decisoins of those who have the knowledge and took the time to put the health of the resource FIRST by closing areas off.

    OP-Keep poaching areas that are closed to mountain bikes (and other users) and you will eventually ruin it for the rest of us. Are there not enough other options (assuming this is at Hawes) to satisfy you?

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