Take Action to Increase Opportunities for Bicycling in National Parks- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Take Action to Increase Opportunities for Bicycling in National Parks

    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

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    Sorry, I don't agree... the last thing I want is the Go Big Crowd with anything over 6" of suspension and larger than 2.4 tires tearing up our National Parks. They ride Assault Bikes, wear Assault Gear just like SWAT folks, and have to wear the gear because they can't stop crashing into things and on things, skid into corners leaving whoopdeedo's,, cut trails wherever they please etc. Just say NO to Assault Bicycle Riders! The enforcement would be a nightmare and an environmental mess to let them in.

  3. #3
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Sorry, I don't agree... the last thing I want is the Go Big Crowd with anything over 6" of suspension and larger than 2.4 tires tearing up our National Parks. They ride Assault Bikes, wear Assault Gear just like SWAT folks, and have to wear the gear because they can't stop crashing into things and on things, skid into corners leaving whoopdeedo's,, cut trails wherever they please etc. Just say NO to Assault Bicycle Riders! The enforcement would be a nightmare and an environmental mess to let them in.

    LOL, just for that, I now want to go huck Old Faithfull!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Sorry, I don't agree... the last thing I want is the Go Big Crowd with anything over 6" of suspension and larger than 2.4 tires tearing up our National Parks. They ride Assault Bikes, wear Assault Gear just like SWAT folks, and have to wear the gear because they can't stop crashing into things and on things, skid into corners leaving whoopdeedo's,, cut trails wherever they please etc. Just say NO to Assault Bicycle Riders! The enforcement would be a nightmare and an environmental mess to let them in.

    Is this guy for real?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Sorry, I don't agree... the last thing I want is the Go Big Crowd with anything over 6" of suspension and larger than 2.4 tires tearing up our National Parks. They ride Assault Bikes, wear Assault Gear just like SWAT folks, and have to wear the gear because they can't stop crashing into things and on things, skid into corners leaving whoopdeedo's,, cut trails wherever they please etc. Just say NO to Assault Bicycle Riders! The enforcement would be a nightmare and an environmental mess to let them in.
    I’m assuming you’re joking around?

    I’m part of the go big crowd but I also have 3 road bikes, 2 XC mtb’s, a DH bike, a trials bike and a unicycle. I guess I’m the all-around crowd.

  6. #6
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    Don't tell me how to live.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Sorry, I don't agree... the last thing I want is the Go Big Crowd with anything over 6" of suspension and larger than 2.4 tires tearing up our National Parks. They ride Assault Bikes, wear Assault Gear just like SWAT folks, and have to wear the gear because they can't stop crashing into things and on things, skid into corners leaving whoopdeedo's,, cut trails wherever they please etc. Just say NO to Assault Bicycle Riders! The enforcement would be a nightmare and an environmental mess to let them in.

    Lets go rock the Grand Canyon. EPIC Downhillage
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  8. #8
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    based upon my unscientific analysis of most of the posts on our section.....the level at which the thread went OT (sarcasm analysis) is on par with other similar posts. I will note that it is possible for a thread to "revive" itself if enough folks pipe up with serious responses thus countering the sarcastic post (if this indeed is a sarcastic post)....generally it takes a 2.5:1 ratio of serious posters to sarcastic posters to overcome the OT trend.

    so.....to put my two cents in......I too feel that N'at Parks administrators should be given more leeway to decide if biking on trails is appropriate, regardless of apparel or travel specs on their bikes. If the post in question is indeed serious, then I guess I will have to agree to disagree......man, does work suck today or what?




  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Sorry, I don't agree... the last thing I want is the Go Big Crowd with anything over 6" of suspension and larger than 2.4 tires tearing up our National Parks. They ride Assault Bikes, wear Assault Gear just like SWAT folks, and have to wear the gear because they can't stop crashing into things and on things, skid into corners leaving whoopdeedo's,, cut trails wherever they please etc. Just say NO to Assault Bicycle Riders! The enforcement would be a nightmare and an environmental mess to let them in.
    and so it begins... hate is far too easy to spew on teh interwebs!

  10. #10
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    as long as people follow the links and make their voice heard (for or against) then let the jokes and flames keep the thread at the top.
    b

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Sorry, I don't agree... the last thing I want is the Go Big Crowd with anything over 6" of suspension and larger than 2.4 tires tearing up our National Parks. They ride Assault Bikes, wear Assault Gear just like SWAT folks, and have to wear the gear because they can't stop crashing into things and on things, skid into corners leaving whoopdeedo's,, cut trails wherever they please etc. Just say NO to Assault Bicycle Riders! The enforcement would be a nightmare and an environmental mess to let them in.
    So this has to do with the go big crowd becuase I posted it???? Sorry but thats not me .
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

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    Damn... the fishing sucks today.... trolling and all I got was a few bluegills.

    I just want every Democrat to know that you can't count on Big Brother... I used the same logic as flaming liberal Law makers assembly men and Senators like Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein (don't call me Feinswine) used when determining that a black plastic handled gun was dangerous and should be outlawed and illegal. The problem is not the equipment, it's the moronic, selfish, stupid operators that make black plastic stocked firearms dangerous, just as it is the drunk driver that makes a car dangerous. The EnviroNazi's will shut down National Parks as soon as NObama gets into office. He'll be undoing and vetoing and No'ing your freedoms away with more restrictions.

    Sometimes... you guys have to step back and do some critical thinking as to if something is really true.

    Troll over, class dismissed.
    Last edited by Boyonabyke; 01-15-2009 at 02:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    LOL, just for that, I now want to go huck Old Faithfull!

    Please, do it when she blows, I wanna have the camera rolling, that should be an epic ride! I can see it now in the headlines..." Sixsixtysix gets Blown by Old Faithful."

  14. #14
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    More opportunity is great...

    We also are going to have to pony up in our own backyards. We have a lot of work ahead of us but I think we have a great volunteer community. The proof will be when the tough part of dealing with the rules the Land Managers ask us to follow.

    I know there are a few surly/tough guys and trollers looking to divert the discussion. In the end, more trails mean more riding opportunities. It will be a reality check when we all get asked to give time and look at the long road.

    I can see how the nimbys and naysayers have affected riding in Marin. It will be a drag if we give them the tools to affect the riding opps in AZ too. Apathy and selfishness will not help.

    Doers need to join up. It would be great if naysayers would clam up unless they are serious and can add to the discussion rather than just showing how clever they are.

  15. #15
    JohnniO
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Damn... the fishing sucks today.... trolling and all I got was a few bluegills.

    I just want every Democrat to know that you can't count on Big Brother... I used the same logic as flaming liberal Law makers assembly men and Senators like Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer and Diane Feinstein (don't call me Feinswine) used when determining that a black plastic handled gun was dangerous and should be outlawed and illegal. The problem is not the equipment, it's the moronic, selfish, stupid operators that make black plastic stocked firearms dangerous, just as it is the drunk driver that makes a car dangerous. The EnviroNazi's will shut down National Parks as soon as NObama gets into office. He'll be undoing and vetoing and No'ing your freedoms away with more restrictions.

    Sometimes... you guys have to step back and do some critical thinking as to if something is really true.

    Troll over, class dismissed.

    I think I hear an echo, somebody pull the pin
    Last edited by JohnniO; 08-19-2010 at 10:16 AM.

  16. #16
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    Why do u feel the need to instigate sh!t when someone is trying to be proactive and help the mtb scene. it's people like randyboy and yetisurly that i cant stand, just trying to get attention anyway possible.
    Last edited by tgiles; 01-15-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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    Did it. Thanks for the info Chris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgiles
    Why do u feel the need to instigate sh!t when someone is trying to be proactive and help the mtb scene. it's people like randyboy and yetisurly that i cant stand, just trying to get attention anyway possible.

    Someone's bubble get burst? I don't need the attention as much as some that think freeride or downhill belongs in National Parks need an education in Land Use, and planned acceptable activities in National Parks here in the USA. They never were and never will be part of the Mission Statement. Teddy Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot and Aldo Leopold were quite thorough in stated goals, uses, and management practices of said land. They are to remain natural. Even fires in National Parks are left to burn and extinguish themselves of their own accord with no human interference. The boundaries of use were put there for a reason.

    Do you think we should let dune buggies and motorcycles drive over sand dunes in Death Valley?

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    I'm pretty damn sure if ol Teddy could have ridden a DH bike he woulda been blastin through Yellowstone & Yosemite.

    If the land is to remain natural then why did they approve to pave any of it? Or creat trails? Ah I think they wanted the people to see it. So one could see more if they traveled by bike thusly making Teddy Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot and Aldo Leopold quite happy I'm sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattyBoyR6
    I'm pretty damn sure if ol Teddy could have ridden a DH bike he woulda been blastin through Yellowstone & Yosemite.

    If the land is to remain natural then why did they approve to pave any of it? Or creat trails? Ah I think they wanted the people to see it. So one could see more if they traveled by bike thusly making Teddy Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot and Aldo Leopold quite happy I'm sure.
    And where in history is this written, that you came to this conclusion? You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in the NPS to support your statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgiles
    Why do u feel the need to instigate sh!t when someone is trying to be proactive and help the mtb scene. it's people like randyboy and yetisurly that i cant stand, just trying to get attention anyway possible.

    What is it that you can't stand? Reality? That as America grows, there will be smaller and smaller slices of pie left for everyone? That mountains will become more valuable based on supply and demand, and that the value of land like in National Parks will become more and more revered due to their pristine, untouched, pure condition? Or that Environmentalists and special interest groups have the majority and will forever continue to outnumber DH and Freeride mountain bikers?

    Choose your battles wisely, build on BLM land because it's available and because you can, build on National Forest if you can, good luck getting all the approvals, offset mitigation, and budget priority to get the NEPA studies completed, and forget about building anything like a trail for mountain bikes in National Park Service, which is basically a politically correct name for a huge Preserve on a grand scale. Mountain bikers that like steep mountains continue to do one thing when shuttle service is involved, build unsustainable trails, ride off designated trails and ignore best practice land management uses. It's a black eye on all mountain bikers. The few bad apples are spoiling it for all.

    http://www.nps.gov/aboutus/index.htm

    "The treasures in this system – the first of its kind in the world –have been set aside by the American people to preserve, protect, and share, the legacies of this land."

    Key words, set aside, preserve, protect. That's pretty clear what the mission statement is to me.

    Perhaps a guideline for building for big bikes. Plan on getting approval to build in any area you would also get approval for building a motocross, closed course, racing track, because a downhill /freeride bike is the equivalent in biking to a motocross /stadium racer type bike in motorcycles. .
    Last edited by Boyonabyke; 01-16-2009 at 12:28 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    What is it that you can't stand? Reality? That as America grows, there will be smaller and smaller slices of pie left for everyone? That mountains will become more valuable based on supply and demand, and that the value of land like in National Parks will become more and more revered due to their pristine, untouched, pure condition? Or that Environmentalists and special interest groups have the majority and will forever continue to outnumber DH and Freeride mountain bikers?

    Choose your battles wisely, build on BLM land because it's available and because you can, build on National Forest if you can, good luck getting all the approvals, offset mitigation, and budget priority to get the NEPA studies completed, and forget about building anything like a trail for mountain bikes in National Park Service. Mountain bikers that like steep mountains continue to do one thing when shuttle service is involved, build unsustainable trails, ride off designated trails and ignore best practice land management uses. It's a black eye on all mountain bikers. The few bad apples are spoiling it for all.
    no, i cant stand your pessimistic attitude and constant negativity toward people u dont even know.
    Madspeed always prevails!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgiles
    no, i cant stand your pessimistic attitude and constant negativity toward people u dont even know.
    TGiles, I bear no hate, for you or anyone else. Don't make it or take it personally.

    It's just that my experience getting involved trying to get things done here in California with CORBA and the Angeles National Forest. i'm not one to spin my wheels trying to get something done and accomplishing nothing in the end. Perhaps you have some experience to share with us in legally building trails where you worked with the Agencies and the managers that manage them sucessfully to show us how it's done? You must win approval in writing from the management agencies first. A contract, so to speak.

  24. #24
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    Your passion for Teddy Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot and Aldo Leopold is truly exhilarating. Any more more cunning responses may result in you spinning your wheels and really not getting anything accomplished. Here's one of these and a couple of these

  25. #25
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    RandyBoy, you are making a huge jump to the conclusion that because some people want mtb access to national parks, that everyone here wants to bring in the dozers and "dune buggies" to build a motocross track.

    The idea is that some of our parks, based on the discretion of the land managers, should be opened to mtb access as a form of non-motorized transportation. Much like they are open to pedestrian and horseback travel, which are often more damaging to the land than bike tires.

    From what I've heard, the change would simply be in the policy that currently leaves the parks closed off to mechanized travel. Since bikes are "mechanized", the wording would be changed to "motorized". This distinction was not necessary at the time these parks were set aside. Preservation may have been the idea behind setting these lands aside, but what good are they if we don't eventually allow for their use for recreational purposes. The thinkers behind the parks whom you cited intended for these lands to be protected and preserved from resource extraction and infrastructure development mainly, in order for them to be enjoyed by the people of this country in their natural condition. And I think everyone here can agree that one of the best ways to enjoy your surroundings is on a mountain bike, no matter how much travel it has or how wide the tires are. Are there rules about what kind of footwear you have to have to climb half dome?

  26. #26
    sixsixtysix
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    For some reason, this is all that keeps popping into my head every time I read this thread.



    Oh yeah, and these douche nozzles.

    https://www.safetrails.net/about_bikers.asp

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    For some reason, this is all that keeps popping into my head every time I read this thread.



    Oh yeah, and these douche nozzles.

    https://www.safetrails.net/about_bikers.asp

    6,60,6.... Douche Nozzles... now we have a problem... the moment you cease to debate and start name calling, you've lost. You can mutate or twist statistics anyways you want. but the numbers, like facts, don't lie. You should be less narrow minded as a moderator, expand your horizons, and open your mind to the views of those other than your own.

    Sierra Club... I wonder how many trails they've built and maintained that you as mountain bikers have benefitted from and now taken over... Figure a hiker does 2.5 mph, and a mountain biker does 10 mph overall. You use and need 4x the amount of trail that they do. Do mountain bikers pull their weight in taxes or usage fees of facilites? Why have so many pay to play places for mountain bikes only failed?

    Maybe you should require bicycle licenses and registration in AZ to be used to educate new mountain bikers and build new city run downhill bike parks. $150 a year annual dues to start sounds fair, when you consider what the average downhiller pays for forks, tires, wheelset, etc., plus $30 per day usage fee, just like at a mountain bike park or ski resort.

    Wow, looks like a racer, dresses like a racer, runs against the clock like a racer, with all the bright colors and advertising.... I guess it's better to call a spade a spade and not a digging utensil. Dress and ride like Darth Vader, and hope that people think you are a good guy. Maybe downhillers need to work on their dress code, kind of like in the business place, dress for success? Maybe appearances do matter, as well as first impressions.

    I never wear a full face, and I don't wear armor. Hikers are 99.9% fine with me when I greet them on the trail on my bike. I see too much conflict between downhillers and hikers or equestrians. Why is it that they are cool with me, but not the armor wearing clan? Is my hair too short, my face clean shaven, my choice of clothes, maybe my demeanor in person, the cause of friendly behavior? Or is it my good looks and charm and the way I speak and communicate?

    The observation and conclusion is the same... the gear is the same as used by racers, who use public area as places to practice racing, when practice should be done on a closed course. You don't race cars on public streets, and you don't race bikes on public trails, or dress and look like a racer on public trails. Good luck changing public perception. As I said before, it's the bad apples out there that are selfish, that do this to all mountain bikers. Put your money where your mouth is, and get folks to pay their fair share for trail usage. Where the money is, the politicians will follow.
    Last edited by Boyonabyke; 01-16-2009 at 03:30 PM.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    For some reason, this is all that keeps popping into my head every time I read this thread.



    Oh yeah, and these douche nozzles.

    https://www.safetrails.net/about_bikers.asp

    typical. widen your view of trail use.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Someone's bubble get burst? I don't need the attention as much as some that think freeride or downhill belongs in National Parks need an education in Land Use, and planned acceptable activities in National Parks here in the USA. They never were and never will be part of the Mission Statement. Teddy Roosevelt, Gifford Pinchot and Aldo Leopold were quite thorough in stated goals, uses, and management practices of said land. They are to remain natural. Even fires in National Parks are left to burn and extinguish themselves of their own accord with no human interference. The boundaries of use were put there for a reason.

    Do you think we should let dune buggies and motorcycles drive over sand dunes in Death Valley?
    i agree with some of what your are saying but dont for a second try to use wildfires as leverage for a preservation argument. i guess the wildfires ive personally helped to suppress in grand canyon np, yellowstone np & glacier np were anomalies. yosemite np & kings canyon np regularly suppress fires as well. they all attempt to utilize "fire use" management but all too often these incidents result in suppression activities as well. same story for usfs wilderness areas.

    regardless, there is no reason to think that mtn'ing cant be fit into a preservation management philosophy. additional trails dont automatically deteriorate preserving a piece of land.

    there would have to be mucho heavy handed management, imo, for exactly the reasons you were fishing about. if there are trails there will be illegal trails. that would have to somehow stop if mtbs where allowed into parks.

    btw, nice cast on your first post. luckily i didnt get to sweaty on my response!

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    6,60,6.... Douche Nozzles... now we have a problem... the moment you cease to debate and start name calling, you've lost. You can mutate or twist statistics anyways you want. but the numbers, like facts, don't lie. You should be less narrow minded as a moderator, expand your horizons, and open your mind to the views of those other than your own.

    Sierra Club... I wonder how many trails they've built and maintained that you as mountain bikers have benefitted from and now taken over... Figure a hiker does 2.5 mph, and a mountain biker does 10 mph overall. You use and need 4x the amount of trail that they do. Do mountain bikers pull their weight in taxes or usage fees of facilites? Why have so many pay to play places for mountain bikes only failed?

    Maybe you should require bicycle licenses and registration in AZ to be used to educate new mountain bikers and build new city run downhill bike parks. $150 a year annual dues to start sounds fair, when you consider what the average downhiller pays for forks, tires, wheelset, etc., plus $30 per day usage fee, just like at a mountain bike park or ski resort.

    Wow, looks like a racer, dresses like a racer, runs against the clock like a racer, with all the bright colors and advertising.... I guess it's better to call a spade a spade and not a digging utensil. Dress and ride like Darth Vader, and hope that people think you are a good guy. Maybe downhillers need to work on their dress code, kind of like in the business place, dress for success? Maybe appearances do matter, as well as first impressions.

    I never wear a full face, and I don't wear armor. Hikers are 99.9% fine with me when I greet them on the trail on my bike. I see too much conflict between downhillers and hikers or equestrians. Why is it that they are cool with me, but not the armor wearing clan? Is my hair too short, my face clean shaven, my choice of clothes, maybe my demeanor in person, the cause of friendly behavior? Or is it my good looks and charm and the way I speak and communicate?

    The observation and conclusion is the same... the gear is the same as used by racers, who use public area as places to practice racing, when practice should be done on a closed course. You don't race cars on public streets, and you don't race bikes on public trails, or dress and look like a racer on public trails. You won't ever be able to change public perception.

    yawn

  31. #31
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    Damn is everyone on the rampage in the az forum or what ???? Seems every single thread lately goes south no matter the topic.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  32. #32
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    It's kind of like when someone stands way too close when they are talking to you and you weren't able to follow a thing they said because you were distracted by a really long nose hair or bad breath.

  33. #33
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    "Figure a hiker does 2.5 mph, and a mountain biker does 10 mph overall. You use and need 4x the amount of trail that they do."

    Pure genius...
    Maybe we should tax fat people and heavy breathers too. I figure a fatty takes up 2x more trail and 2x more oxygen.
    Not sure if you dress like a douche nozzle but you definitely talk like one.
    Seems fitting if you ask me.

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    It's kind of like the "me" generation that think they know it all and never learned to respect their elders, or that history repeats itself. Glad my houses are paid for, my credit card gets paid off every month, and the rent checks keep on coming in. Now if the stock market will just stabilize, there's buys to be had. Bank of America is looking particularly appealing this week. I see growth, time to buy a couple thousand shares.
    Last edited by Boyonabyke; 01-16-2009 at 04:31 PM.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmarkos
    "Figure a hiker does 2.5 mph, and a mountain biker does 10 mph overall. You use and need 4x the amount of trail that they do."

    Pure genius...
    Maybe we should tax fat people and heavy breathers too. I figure a fatty takes up 2x more trail and 2x more oxygen.
    Not sure if you dress like a douche nozzle but you definitely talk like one.
    Seems fitting if you ask me.

    I pity the fool that can't even respond to the correct poster in this thread.

  36. #36
    JohnniO
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    . Glad my houses are paid for, my credit card gets paid off every month, and the rent checks keep on coming in. Now if the stock market will just stabilize, there's buys to be had. Bank of America is looking particularly appealing this week. I see growth, time to buy a couple thousand shares.

    so highlighting your wealth somehow validates your droning ? You are clearly old , beaten and burned out. You're upset because no one will listen to you. Your problem is your delivery. You alienate immediately. Your grand kids don't come to see you. You are sad. I understand.

    I may or may not agree with your points but to tell someone they shouldn't attemp something because you already failed at it is just bitterness.

    Do you need a hug ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer
    based upon my unscientific analysis of most of the posts on our section.....the level at which the thread went OT (sarcasm analysis) is on par with other similar posts. I will note that it is possible for a thread to "revive" itself if enough folks pipe up with serious responses thus countering the sarcastic post (if this indeed is a sarcastic post)....generally it takes a 2.5:1 ratio of serious posters to sarcastic posters to overcome the OT trend.

    so.....to put my two cents in......I too feel that N'at Parks administrators should be given more leeway to decide if biking on trails is appropriate, regardless of apparel or travel specs on their bikes. If the post in question is indeed serious, then I guess I will have to agree to disagree......man, does work suck today or what?

    Excellent! Well put.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhykhelle
    We also are going to have to pony up in our own backyards. We have a lot of work ahead of us but I think we have a great volunteer community. The proof will be when the tough part of dealing with the rules the Land Managers ask us to follow.

    I know there are a few surly/tough guys and trollers looking to divert the discussion. In the end, more trails mean more riding opportunities. It will be a reality check when we all get asked to give time and look at the long road.

    I can see how the nimbys and naysayers have affected riding in Marin. It will be a drag if we give them the tools to affect the riding opps in AZ too. Apathy and selfishness will not help.

    Doers need to join up. It would be great if naysayers would clam up unless they are serious and can add to the discussion rather than just showing how clever they are.

    Where there's money, there's Marin's, and Kentfields, and Scottsdales, and people with clout to do what they need to do while paying their taxes and supporting elections with contributions to ensure that they maintain their lifestyle. Embrace and accept it, don't fight it.

  39. #39
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    One more reason not to... Assault on another rider by what kind of rider on what kind of equipment?

    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...ain-biker.html

    The density in National Parks of humans on paths and trails is much higher. The hiker always loses physically. All a big bike does is allow you to go faster and do more damage when you crash from riding at unsafe speeds and out of control. Sounds like racing results to me, except in races, innocent people don't get hurt, and the racers sign legal release of liablity. I don't see hikers signing that release. Nor should they.

  40. #40
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    Might as well buy GM and F if you're going to toss good money into BAC. These guys all have terrible balance sheets and will not be making money anytime soon.

  41. #41
    dirt visionary
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    One more reason not to... Assault on another rider by what kind of rider on what kind of equipment?

    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...ain-biker.html

    The density in National Parks of humans on paths and trails is much higher. The hiker always loses physically. All a big bike does is allow you to go faster and do more damage when you crash from riding at unsafe speeds and out of control. Sounds like racing results to me, except in races, innocent people don't get hurt, and the racers sign legal release of liablity. I don't see hikers signing that release. Nor should they.

    What the F is your problem man. Why in the hell do you keep referencing to big bikes, racing and crashing? This has nothing to do with big bikes at all. Get off your damn soapbox you old tart.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnniO
    so highlighting your wealth somehow validates your droning ? You are clearly old , beaten and burned out. You're upset because no one will listen to you. Your problem is your delivery. You alienate immediately. Your grand kids don't come to see you. You are sad. I understand.

    I may or may not agree with your points but to tell someone they shouldn't attemp something because you already failed at it is just bitterness.

    Do you need a hug ?
    It means you are good at assuming I'm wealthy, and that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. But hey, go for it. life is all about risk and reward. I've ridden horses, I hike and I ride mountain bikes, so I see the exposure and risk problems of doing so on National Park Property, and I see it as a tough sell. I think Downhill mountain parks will go the way of all the free motorcycle riding areas we had in California in the 60's and 70's as cities grew, as liberals took over the cities, and as motorcycle parks couldn't afford the liability insurance to continue as a viable business, due to injury litigation and lawsuits.. YMMV, but I doubt it will be fee free, which is what the downhillers want.

    Let me put it to you this way... Mammoth Mountain used to have the Kamikazee Downhill Race on the mountain and Mammoth Mountain Motocross every year in the 1990's. The town doesn't sponsor them any more, the people that live there and the businesses found out that that particular crowd brought more problems with it in to town, and law enforcement issues, than it did revenue to the town and it's businesses, so the town stopped having the races. They didn't fill beds or restaurants up, just campgrounds, trash cans and toilet pits with 5 cars and 20 people per $10 campsite.

    Another observation... DH'ers are the majority of users I see having their used tires for sale. Do they need the money that badly? I can only wonder.

  43. #43
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    6,60,6.... Douche Nozzles... now we have a problem... the moment you cease to debate and start name calling, you've lost. You can mutate or twist statistics anyways you want. but the numbers, like facts, don't lie. You should be less narrow minded as a moderator, expand your horizons, and open your mind to the views of those other than your own.

    Sierra Club... I wonder how many trails they've built and maintained that you as mountain bikers have benefitted from and now taken over... Figure a hiker does 2.5 mph, and a mountain biker does 10 mph overall. You use and need 4x the amount of trail that they do. Do mountain bikers pull their weight in taxes or usage fees of facilites? Why have so many pay to play places for mountain bikes only failed?

    Maybe you should require bicycle licenses and registration in AZ to be used to educate new mountain bikers and build new city run downhill bike parks. $150 a year annual dues to start sounds fair, when you consider what the average downhiller pays for forks, tires, wheelset, etc., plus $30 per day usage fee, just like at a mountain bike park or ski resort.

    Wow, looks like a racer, dresses like a racer, runs against the clock like a racer, with all the bright colors and advertising.... I guess it's better to call a spade a spade and not a digging utensil. Dress and ride like Darth Vader, and hope that people think you are a good guy. Maybe downhillers need to work on their dress code, kind of like in the business place, dress for success? Maybe appearances do matter, as well as first impressions.

    I never wear a full face, and I don't wear armor. Hikers are 99.9% fine with me when I greet them on the trail on my bike. I see too much conflict between downhillers and hikers or equestrians. Why is it that they are cool with me, but not the armor wearing clan? Is my hair too short, my face clean shaven, my choice of clothes, maybe my demeanor in person, the cause of friendly behavior? Or is it my good looks and charm and the way I speak and communicate?

    The observation and conclusion is the same... the gear is the same as used by racers, who use public area as places to practice racing, when practice should be done on a closed course. You don't race cars on public streets, and you don't race bikes on public trails, or dress and look like a racer on public trails. Good luck changing public perception. As I said before, it's the bad apples out there that are selfish, that do this to all mountain bikers. Put your money where your mouth is, and get folks to pay their fair share for trail usage. Where the money is, the politicians will follow.
    Better slow your roll there a bit little buddy.

    You come in here (a regional forum that has nothing to do with your local area) and start spewing rhetoric about downhillers like they cause some sort of ecological disaster with "tires over 2.6"" in a topic that was raised to expand awareness about a proposal that would have NOTHING to do with one particular group of the mountain biking community over another.

    Your little smart comments about charging a annual fee. Great, lets do it. Most of the people I ride with have mentioned how some sort of fee system on all of the parks here in Phoenix would be great. Live in Phoenix, pay the local taxes, get a "residents fee". Live in the burbs or some other state (Like California) then you get to pay the premium price for a "non residents fee" to use our wonderful parks. Then it might slow some of the out-of-towners who flock here and do nothing but crowd and help erode the trails as well as give our parks systems some much needed operations money. You forget, us "Downhillers" are the ones riding the $5000+ DH bikes as well as the AM bikes annnnnd the XC bikes. I can afford it, can you?

    You saying downhillers dress like "racers" is like saying that wearing baggy pants makes you look black. Its a perfect example of your absolute close mindedness and skewed outlook on the world. Hate to tell you, but I will guarantee that more XC guys wear their full race gear, smeared in logo's and team names for their everyday casual ride's than any DHer ever will. Maybe you're confusing MX with DH? I can see how a DH bike looks like a small MX bike in the eyes of someone blinded by so much hatred, but about as far off as a dress on prom night on this one.

    So because you don't ever wear armor, or a full face, it makes you "not a DHer"? Ok, so If I ride without armor and in my squid lid, that makes me "not a DHer" right? Wrong. It makes me an idiot for taking what my perceived image of myself by some random person (ie a hiker) and putting more importance on it than my own personal safety, which in all honesty, is about on par with the amount of intellect you have shown throughout your comments in the rest of this thread. Just plain senseless.

    So you can call a spade a spade (although even that saying you chose has some pretty racial connotations to it) but I will call you for what you are, a troll. Plain and simple.

  44. #44
    JohnniO
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    It means you are good at assuming I'm wealthy, and that you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet. But hey, go for it. life is all about risk and reward. I've ridden horses, I hike and I ride mountain bikes, so I see the exposure and risk problems of doing so on National Park Property, and I see it as a tough sell. I think Downhill mountain parks will go the way of all the free motorcycle riding areas we had in California in the 60's and 70's as cities grew, as liberals took over the cities, and as motorcycle parks couldn't afford the liability insurance to continue as a viable business, due to injury litigation and lawsuits.. YMMV, but I doubt it will be fee free, which is what the downhillers want.

    Let me put it to you this way... Mammoth Mountain used to have the Kamikazee Downhill Race on the mountain and Mammoth Mountain Motocross every year in the 1990's. The town doesn't sponsor them any more, the people that live there and the businesses found out that that particular crowd brought more problems with it in to town, and law enforcement issues, than it did revenue to the town and it's businesses, so the town stopped having the races. They didn't fill beds or restaurants up, just campgrounds, trash cans and toilet pits with 5 cars and 20 people per $10 campsite.

    Another observation... DH'ers are the majority of users I see having their used tires for sale. Do they need the money that badly? I can only wonder.
    time for your blood pressure meds Opa. Can we all sit around the fire and you tell us all those stories about Repack ?

    If you haven't noticed I haven't disputed one thing you've said. I haven't stated either for or against your manifesto ramblings. While you're sitting there in your own mess thinking about how smart you've just proven yourself to be, ponder this- How many minds have you changed with your authoritarian diatribes ? Not too many by my count.

    Maybe you should ask yourself why people avoid you and you always end up angry. Your communication methods are lacking. I'm not talking about your grammer or spelling.

    When you wake up in the morning or in the middle of the night 8 times to pee look in the mirror and vow to yourself to not be such a stick of wood. You might be able to actually convince some people you are right if you really are right.

    One more thing whatever you decide, do it in Cali. We're doing just fine AZ without you.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    One more reason not to... Assault on another rider by what kind of rider on what kind of equipment?

    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...ain-biker.html

    The density in National Parks of humans on paths and trails is much higher. The hiker always loses physically. All a big bike does is allow you to go faster and do more damage when you crash from riding at unsafe speeds and out of control. Sounds like racing results to me, except in races, innocent people don't get hurt, and the racers sign legal release of liablity. I don't see hikers signing that release. Nor should they.

    This guy is a real Sierra Cvnt Douche Nozzle. I say we all start trolling the Cali board.


    .
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  46. #46
    Downhill Messiah
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnniO
    time for your blood pressure meds Opa. Can we all sit around the fire and you tell us all those stories about Repack ?

    If you haven't noticed I haven't disputed one thing you've said. I haven't stated either for or against your manifesto ramblings. While you're sitting there in your own mess thinking about how smart you've just proven yourself to be, ponder this- How many minds have you changed with your authoritarian diatribes ? Not too many by my count.

    Maybe you should ask yourself why people avoid you and you always end up angry. Your communication methods are lacking. I'm not talking about your grammer or spelling.

    When you wake up in the morning or in the middle of the night 8 times to pee look in the mirror and vow to yourself to not be such a stick of wood. You might be able to actually convince some people you are right if you really are right.

    One more thing whatever you decide, do it in Cali. We're doing just fine AZ without you.
    perfectly stated JonniO. especially the grammar and spelling, i can hardly make sense of his pointless rants .
    Madspeed always prevails!

  47. #47
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    Douche nozzle just made my ignore list.

  48. #48
    Downhill Messiah
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmarkos
    Douche nozzle just made my ignore list.
    Yup...i just clicked ignore as well.
    Madspeed always prevails!

  49. #49
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    [QUOTE=RandyBoy]One more reason not to... Assault on another rider by what kind of rider on what kind of equipment?

    http://www.socaltrailriders.org/foru...ain-biker.html

    Where does it say in the post about the bike? I read the entire string and the bike and attire are not mentioned by Karen. I see 29ers RIP down hills pretty quick. It is always going to be up to the operator to be under control.

    As far as all the flaming on both sides, it is unfortunate that a constructive issue like more opportunities to ride sustainble trails degrades to this point.

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