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  1. #1
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    Sunday in Flag: Where was everyone?

    Aspen Corner -> Flying Fish -> Pipeline -> Fort Valley -> Shultz -> Rocky Ridge -> Lower Oldham -> Buffalo Park -> Macy's, and I saw exactly one couple on bikes the whole time. It's like I had the whole mountain range to myself!

    Aaaand now I see why they call it Flying Fish...although I didn't actually expect there to be so much actual flying involved!

    p.
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  2. #2
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    Elden Lookout Rd-Sunset-Schultz. Two riders sitting at the top of Sunset. As karma would have it I ran into the group of 6 shuttlers that had passed me on Elden lookout trying to fix a broken chain. They said they had been working on it for 30 min! I took the bad link out, gave them a KMC missing link and was on my way. Saw 4 or 5 riders at the top of L. Bear. Ran into the infamous BGR at the intersection with U. Brookbank. Passed 2 riders going down Sunset. Ran into grand canyon boating legend Dennis H on his new Spec sported to him by Thatcher of Teva sandal fame. Then the Sedona posse on all cylinders led by Canadianbacon down near the bottom. All told, I think I ran into at least 20 riders and two hikers. Maybe more. Pretty busy out.

    Thinking back to an earlier thread this summer, it really does make sense to choose another trail to descend than Schultz on a weekend in the summer.

  3. #3
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    33 mile SS ride with ~ 4500 ft climbing.

    FP road. *up* Flying Fish -> moto trail -> vet springs -> sherlock -> DT to AZT-> 418 -> 552 turn around and go back. miss turn. hit 180 -> snowbowl rd - FP rd and car.

    =)
    b

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    Thinking back to an earlier thread this summer, it really does make sense to choose another trail to descend than Schultz on a weekend in the summer.
    Yup. It's like Disneyland up there. Sunset/Schultz are probably the most familiar, advertised, hyped, and ridden/hiked trails on the mountain. I only ever go that way if I can be reasonably sure of being off the mountain by 9am or so. Last time I did Elden Lookout --> Sunset --> Brookbank --> Oldham and out through Buffalo Park I didn't see more than two people until I got to the park.

  5. #5
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Aspen Corner -> Flying Fish -> Pipeline -> Fort Valley -> Shultz -> Rocky Ridge -> Lower Oldham -> Buffalo Park -> Macy's, and I saw exactly one couple on bikes the whole time. It's like I had the whole mountain range to myself!

    Aaaand now I see why they call it Flying Fish...although I didn't actually expect there to be so much actual flying involved!

    p.

    We were up there Saturday morning checking out the Fish, that trail is waaaaaaay too much fun, mad props to the builders. It is damn near the perfect shuttle run

    Hit Elden in the afternoon, we only saw 4 other riders total, all of which were pedaling up the road.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    We were up there Saturday morning checking out the Fish, that trail is waaaaaaay too much fun, mad props to the builders. It is damn near the perfect shuttle run

    Hit Elden in the afternoon, we only saw 4 other riders total, all of which were pedaling up the road.
    The surprise gap jump up in the first third nearly killed me! I started rolling up on it and hit the brakes 'cuz I didn't know what the other side looked like. Then I got skeered.

    p.
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  7. #7
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    I gotta try the Fish. Anyway, people weren't up there cause I was in Phoenix this weekend. I did do an evening ride last night in Granite Basin and I saw NO ONE on the trails.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  8. #8
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    I agree, the normal weekend circus was missing yesterday. Rolled up Shultz (2 runners, 4 riders, everyone going up) -> Onceler (group of 5 local riders) -> up Hotshot (no one) -> down Secret/Newham/Upper Moto (no one) -> Lower Moto (3 motos) -> Easter Island/Ft Valley (no one). This was between 9-11 AM. I almost felt like a Tuesday.

  9. #9
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    Funny true story about Flying Fish: So I hit Veit Springs TH and kinda sorta figure out I'm supposed to hump up the hill and hit the double track -- can't find righteous singletrack anywhere. I roll down to the homestead area. All kinds of walking paths going every-which-way but it's totally a cul-de-sac. I try some of the walking paths, and they all end up with aggressive blockages. On the other side of the fence are big scary WILDERNESS AREA signs.

    Well, I can't figure out exactly where on the map I am so I hump back up the doubletrack and try another fork. Of course this is just the other side of the cul-de-sac! I roll back down into the homestead. WTF?! It's like an Escher painting, with me climbing both directions. W. T. F.

    Finally I sacked up and hopped the bike over the big locked gate at the back of the homestead. Totally convinced I'm about to hop into Wilderness. Prepared to beg for mercy, maybe even fake an injury or epilepsy or something if a ranger finds me. On the other side of the gate? A big "NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES" sign and an obvious rock-strewn, moto-used road.

    I think I spent like 20 minutes being confused by the whole Escher experience.

    p.
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  10. #10
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    On Mt Lemmon, enjoying some AWESOME trails and AWESOME climate!
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  11. #11
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    We did a preride of the 1st loop of the crazy 88.

    Fireroad climbing-> to more fireroading climbing-> to the very cool AZ trail-> to some loose moto trail-> to some hikeabike that I'd like to forget -> and finally to secret-> and then to being lost for an hour all while being about a 1/2 mile from the parking lot! DAMN that's embarrassing. I'm still trying to figure out how I managed to do that!

    Tiff

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    33 mile SS ride with ~ 4500 ft climbing.

    FP road. *up* Flying Fish -> moto trail -> vet springs -> sherlock -> DT to AZT-> 418 -> 552 turn around and go back. miss turn. hit 180 -> snowbowl rd - FP rd and car.

    =)
    Nice running into you guys out there!!

    Tiff

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiffanyinanthem
    We did a preride of the 1st loop of the crazy 88.

    Fireroad climbing-> to more fireroading climbing-> to the very cool AZ trail-> to some loose moto trail-> to some hikeabike that I'd like to forget -> and finally to secret-> and then to being lost for an hour all while being about a 1/2 mile from the parking lot! DAMN that's embarrassing. I'm still trying to figure out how I managed to do that!

    Tiff
    Did you find Pick Up Sticks? How was the signage elsewhere? Any tricky spots?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiffanyinanthem
    We did a preride of the 1st loop of the crazy 88.

    Fireroad climbing-> to more fireroading climbing-> to the very cool AZ trail-> to some loose moto trail-> to some hikeabike that I'd like to forget -> and finally to secret-> and then to being lost for an hour all while being about a 1/2 mile from the parking lot! DAMN that's embarrassing. I'm still trying to figure out how I managed to do that!

    Tiff
    I know exactly how you did it . last year I missed the turnoff past sites 8/9, went along the powerline road (ick) then up and down practically every spur thinking I was going to hit Schultz but it never happened. it was a very dismal stretch of about an hour.

    the hike-a-bike must have been Gimpy's Gully? i recall it being ridable if you are into tech riding, but not a lot of fun and by far the hardest stretch techwise on the course.

    any other good beta? I hear the stretch from AZT to Sherlock is flagged?
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiffanyinanthem
    Nice running into you guys out there!!

    Tiff

    such a small world. way out in the middle of no where. I look up and say wow thats Will and Tiffany. we turned around basically at the big sweeping left turn of 418 that start the northern flank of the route.

    Instead of going back up the single track, we decided to "save" ourselves and just take the FR back. ouch. we added way more miles and way more than double the climbing.

    that climb that you refer too is going to surprize a few people. (sucky!) I wonder how many will "miss the turn" and stay of AZT to by pass it.....
    b

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    any other good beta? I hear the stretch from AZT to Sherlock is flagged?

    I believe the whole thing is flagged. I'm concerned about that turn to camp 8/9 myself. Tiff said the turn on Pickup Sticks was flagged and easy to spot.
    b

  17. #17
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    crazy 88 course

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    Did you find Pick Up Sticks? How was the signage elsewhere? Any tricky spots?
    Yes found pick up sticks, itís between switchbacks. There's another trail near it, which is located right on a switchback, that one isn't it. Itís behind you! It's marked too.

    The course was marked fairly well. The only place thatís really easy to miss is the left on to secret towards the end. You're haulin' downhill and so happy to be almost done, and itís easy to fly by. Pay attention to your mileage from your last turn and you should be okay. We had to back track big time right here.

    Yesterday, our total was 48.06 miles and 6976 ft. We split up at the end and Will had the GPS (I had the queue sheet and bike computer) and those were his miles. He took a wrong turn at the end too and ended up having to climb back up to Sunset from the cattle guardÖ I stayed more on course but still managed to get some extra miles in at the end.


    Tiff

  18. #18
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    I believe the whole thing is flagged. I'm concerned about that turn to camp 8/9 myself. Tiff said the turn on Pickup Sticks was flagged and easy to spot.
    fwiw, I rolled right past 8\9 last year and saw the little sign, but if you study the map closely you see its not a 90 degree turn, more like a Y. about .2 miles later it turns south into Secret. I missed the Y, misinterpreted the instructions, before I knew it was like 500 vf down the mtn, saw a deer, got all exhausted and spacey with the prospect of climbing back up, and then got lost like Tiffany described. I think the key is just go super slow for any turns that might be dicey.

    and thanks Nathan and his helpers for flagging. 10k and 85 miles is enough challenge for me, I don't personally need to be a gpx purist.
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  19. #19
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    Paul B: hehe funny stuff, ya the Lamar Haines area has a bunch of loops ...

    befoot: nice pics, I've rode parts of that loop, need to put it all together though, sounds like fun.

  20. #20
    Just another half mile...
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    Poking around the Hart Praire area. Started at FR 151 & FR 418 -> FR 151 -> FR 151E -> south on Peak Moto tr. (PMT) -> PMT around Crater Lake -> Mace's Revenge -> cut up to AZ Trail -> back to car ending with 5 mile DH on AZ trail maching through the woods to end a 21 mile ride with 2400' of climbing. Came across a dozen motos on PMT and three bike on AZ trail. Great day to be out riding up in Flag!!




    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Aspen Corner -> Flying Fish -> Pipeline -> Fort Valley -> Shultz -> Rocky Ridge -> Lower Oldham -> Buffalo Park -> Macy's, and I saw exactly one couple on bikes the whole time. It's like I had the whole mountain range to myself!

    Aaaand now I see why they call it Flying Fish...although I didn't actually expect there to be so much actual flying involved!

    p.

  21. #21
    Kathleen in AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicrider
    Poking around the Hart Praire area. Started at FR 151 & FR 418 -> FR 151 -> FR 151E -> south on Peak Moto tr. (PMT) -> PMT around Crater Lake -> Mace's Revenge -> cut up to AZ Trail -> back to car ending with 5 mile DH on AZ trail maching through the woods to end a 21 mile ride with 2400' of climbing. Came across a dozen motos on PMT and three bike on AZ trail. Great day to be out riding up in Flag!!
    Well look at you... more mapping of the trails Tomas told us about! How was PMT on a mtn bike?

  22. #22
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    waiting for you to call

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Aspen Corner -> Flying Fish -> Pipeline -> Fort Valley -> Shultz -> Rocky Ridge -> Lower Oldham -> Buffalo Park -> Macy's, and I saw exactly one couple on bikes the whole time. It's like I had the whole mountain range to myself!

    Aaaand now I see why they call it Flying Fish...although I didn't actually expect there to be so much actual flying involved!

    p.
    Paul,I was up on the shop roof early installing galvanized metal roofing and waiting for your call After the winds picked up and it got toooooo hot to be handling metal, I went into town and rolled out a decent mt bike ride, about 16 miles or so on some trails with no names. Got in a sweet 38 mile moto ride around Sitgreaves and Government Mt later that afternoon, finished up at 7pm. Good to hear you had a sweet ride here in N AZ. Just for the record, Flying Fish was named long before there were any stunts,jumps or roll overs, these additions are very recent

  23. #23
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    Hey Gullo! Yeah...kind of a weird weekend all around. The gf had suggested I bring my bike so I could take a day to ride, so there was additional logistical headaches: girlie awaiting my return, my dogs, etc. etc.

    I suck. I'm a bad friend. Bros before hos and all that. Next time!

    p.
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  24. #24
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    no worries

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Hey Gullo! Yeah...kind of a weird weekend all around. The gf had suggested I bring my bike so I could take a day to ride, so there was additional logistical headaches: girlie awaiting my return, my dogs, etc. etc.

    I suck. I'm a bad friend. Bros before hos and all that. Next time!

    p.
    paul, no worries, you did get in a sweet ride!
    next time, i'll have the roof done and we can hit some trails together

  25. #25
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    [QUOTE=Epicrider]Poking around the Started at FR 151 & FR 418 -> FR 151 -> FR 151E -> south on Peak Moto tr. (PMT) -> PMT around Crater Lake -> Mace's Revenge -> cut up to AZ Trail -> back to car ending with 5 mile DH on AZ trail maching through the woods to end a 21 mile ride with 2400' of climbing. Came across a dozen motos on PMT and three bike on AZ trail. Great day to be out riding up in Flag!!
    QUOTE]

    What a great year for the ferns. Nice pics!

    How is that new section of AZ trail from Bismark to 418? Looks like a great addition, esp for the around the Peaks ride.

  26. #26
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    How is that new section of AZ trail from Bismark to 418? Looks like a great addition, esp for the around the Peaks ride.
    nice trail, but post holed pretty bad once you start the DH to 418. I would guess this is left over horse damamge, but it could also be from contruction of trail not removing all the surface organic matter. On my HT I was beaten to a pulp. But it's such a beautiful trail i really didnt mind too much.
    b

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    nice trail, but post holed pretty bad once you start the DH to 418. I would guess this is left over horse damamge, but it could also be from contruction of trail not removing all the surface organic matter. On my HT I was beaten to a pulp. But it's such a beautiful trail i really didnt mind too much.
    The horse damage was pretty bad between bismark and aspen corner earlier this year. The White Horse section of the PMT is pretty sweet. Those trails have been out there for almost a decade. It's nice to see it getting "discovered". A great Fall foliage ride as well.

    A big dilemma looms regarding Mace's Revenge. If it gets incorporated into the AZ trail it will be off limits to the moto guys who built it.

  28. #28
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    I was up on Friday...parked Vlet Springs TH on Snow Bowl Rd did Maces to the PMT around Crater Lake we saw some folks wood cutting and a some deer over there as well, then some elk on Hochderffer hills and one women walking three or four Jack Russels on the AZT. thats it...we did see lots of cows over on the PMT but none were on bikes.
    Darwin was an Optimist

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    A big dilemma looms regarding Mace's Revenge. If it gets incorporated into the AZ trail it will be off limits to the moto guys who built it.
    thats a bummer...I don't have a problem sharing, its their trail after all.
    here in Prescott everything behind thumb will be non-motorized.
    kind of sucks if your a Moto rider....and remember were next on the list.
    Darwin was an Optimist

  30. #30
    Just another half mile...
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    It's not that bad if your maching down on 4 inches of 29er cush. The trail is seeing a lot of traffic lately and sections are getting powder dusty, which is wearing down the little post holes.

    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    nice trail, but post holed pretty bad once you start the DH to 418. I would guess this is left over horse damamge, but it could also be from contruction of trail not removing all the surface organic matter. On my HT I was beaten to a pulp. But it's such a beautiful trail i really didnt mind too much.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    A big dilemma looms regarding Mace's Revenge. If it gets incorporated into the AZ trail it will be off limits to the moto guys who built it.
    Moto guys have adapted to closures for decades. The good news is, that means more new high-speed singletrack construction by our friends with engines! You gotta love plausible deniability + free trail construction.

    p.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    A big dilemma looms regarding ...... off limits to the moto guys who built it.
    I'm all for respondsible trail users. no matter what type they happen to be. the issue is with the small non-respondsible population of any group.

    moto guys are in the process of lossing a lot of trails they built in NM. but just with MTB access, bad apples ruin it for all. money and PR rule the world. not respect and common sense.
    b

  33. #33
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    A few weeks ago while we were sitting at the gate on Mace's Revenge, 2 guys rolled up on motos and went by us. I thought: "Man, it's a bummer that those things are on the trail." Nothing against them in particular - it just affected the "peaceful" vibe of the ride.

    Then as we proceeded to ride the trail I thought: "Thank God for the moto guys! Otherwise, this trail wouldn't exist."

    Like Brian said, there are some bad apples in every user-group but the majority are pretty cool people.
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    A few weeks ago while we were sitting at the gate on Mace's Revenge, 2 guys rolled up on motos and went by us. I thought: "Man, it's a bummer that those things are on the trail." Nothing against them in particular - it just affected the "peaceful" vibe of the ride.

    Then as we proceeded to ride the trail I thought: "Thank God for the moto guys! Otherwise, this trail wouldn't exist."

    Like Brian said, there are some bad apples in every user-group but the majority are pretty cool people.
    all the (few) moto guys I have run into in Flag have been very nice and courteous about sharing the trail. Last year on the 88 they helped me get myself unlost. My colon is not looking forward to that post-holey section 4-5 hrs into the ride, however.
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  35. #35
    my dog's Frisbee launcher
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    Evil I tell you, just plain Evil. this one called him self Tomas...and told us were to go

    We saw a couple of groups riding the PMT when we were up camping a couple weeks back...Tomas said he was going for a long ride all singletrack when we saw him on Friday. I didn't put it all together until a couple of riders asked for directions on Sunday
    when they showed me their map....bingo I thought what a cool loop that would be.

    and it was!
    Last edited by befoot; 08-04-2009 at 04:10 PM.
    Darwin was an Optimist

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    My colon is not looking forward to that post-holey section 4-5 hrs into the ride, however.

    you'll be climbing it. so it won't be that bad. we'll then again you have gears so you'll have to sit and spin. then again you have suspension. so as Dale says, you have nothing to worry about.

    Me, I hope to be blissfully numb, basking in the beauty, still dancing on the pedals of my SS.

    however, I now have to put some time into a flying Nowacki brother on that section so I can over come his GPS sabbatoge and stay in front of him.

    Oh yes, even the slackers have started talking smack!
    b

  37. #37
    my dog's Frisbee launcher
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    all the (few) moto guys I have run into in Flag have been very nice and courteous about sharing the trail. Last year on the 88 they helped me get myself unlost. My colon is not looking forward to that post-holey section 4-5 hrs into the ride, however.
    Chollaball, its not all that bad. I've ridden it three times in the last two weeks and you'll be trip'n on how beautiful everything is so you won't notice it much besides that part is not very long ...so go forth and get bumped
    Darwin was an Optimist

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by befoot
    Chollaball, its not all that bad. I've ridden it three times in the last two weeks and you'll be trip'n on how beautiful everything is so you won't notice it much besides that part is not very long ...so go forth and get bumped
    +1 It's all good!
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

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