Some A-Hole Owes Mike a new Fork!!!! Damn trail Trap makers!!!!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    I'm Lazy, So I Shuttle
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! Some A-Hole Owes Mike a new Fork!!!! Damn trail Trap makers!!!!!

    Sunday short bus shuttle started out pretty ruff today. just after dropping in off the saddle we took a line to hit a drop and some ******* put a 150lb rock in a place that u could only see until it was too late. it was riden the night berfore and said it was clear at that point. I know people are gonna say well then stay on the trail and bla bla bla...but if u wanna block something do it at the begining nit in the middle or in a blind spot. that is just trying to hurt someone.
    I can say personaly if I catch anyone doing that I will smash them with a rock.

    I hope whoever did this or likes to do these things sees this.

    Not only is it illegal to move things in the reserve regardless of reason, and no it wasnt a ranger they would have blocked the entrance not laid a boobie trap. On top of it it cost mike a Marz. 66, and could have cost him his life, ability to walk and or ride again not to mention the pain he probley will feel tomorrow.
    Here are some pics. I hope who ever did this sees the repercusions and realizes that if someone was to die or be severely injured they would be responsible. Better hope its the rangers that catch u doing these things is all I can say.

    Here is the rock took two of us to move it...

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


    And the rest of the trap was more rocks and a couple logs which cant be seen until its too late....
    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


    the distance of the fall and rock in foreground
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    More of where he fell, and posh fell to not run him over...

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    The bike...
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    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us



    The gash after i pulled the rock out.....lucky this is his injuries.......

    Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


    So please next time u think of moving rocks or doing some vigilanty stuff plz dont....
    Last edited by Greffster; 01-13-2009 at 09:08 AM.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  2. #2
    Meatbomb
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    well then stay on the trail and bla bla bla

  3. #3
    Downhill Messiah
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    That is [email protected]*D UP!!!!!!!!!! I hate people who are just plain *******s trying to cause a person, who is just trying to have fun by riding something different, harm. Seriously though, what the [email protected] is wrong with whoever did this!!??!
    Madspeed always prevails!

  4. #4
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    That is jusy wrong, I really hope the idiot gets cought someday.
    I also have noticed traps here and there, it really is getting bad.
    Glad Mike was not hurt worse,

    That fork can have a stem made and pressed back in , -----I Really hope this guy gets found so he can have a road flair droped in his car .

  5. #5
    I'm Lazy, So I Shuttle
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    surprise

    ....a fellow rider goes down due to someone trying to harm bikers and thats what u say.
    Last edited by Greffster; 01-12-2009 at 08:19 PM.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  6. #6
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    I was riding up National to BV yesterday before dark. I removed a 30lb rock placed at the landing of a 2 1/2 ft drop off granite, the one with the depression/crack in the run up that can kinda suck up your suspension and speed a bit. A-Holes.

  7. #7
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    That SUCK'S. If I ever catch one of thiese FVCK'S I'm gona have a ball with my new carbon fiber knuckle gloves.


    .
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  8. #8
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    That was a nasty hit. I've never seen a fork break like that.

    Why would you ride blindly into something like that? Don't you think that if you are doing high risk moves, the rider has a responsibility to clear the area first to make sure it is safe? This is akin to making sure there is not a log in the lake when you want to jump off a big rock into it.

    We have had several of these incidences noted on the boards. I am not at all in favor of folks changing/booby trapping trails. It still seems to me that the rider is ultimately responsible to be in control of their ride, and that includes knowing the trail conditions before launching off something blindly. If you don't know, then don't take that risky line without clearing it first.

    The rock mover did not break that fork, the rider showed bad judgment. Hopefully lesson learned, and I'm glad he was not hurt worse.

    Caveat: I do not know how these trails are usually ridden. Perhaps it is usual and customary to launch this thing blindly, and this group has done so, many, many times, and they feel super confident just going into it blindly. Be careful out there, sometimes familiarity brings an overconfidence that can be dangerous.

  9. #9
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    Nah, you played and you payed.

    Ever think stop and think of all the people ypu guys piss off riding off trail in a crowded heavily used PRESERVE? My guess is plenty.

    But no, booby traps arn't cool and I hope the perpetrator gets his due. Maybe it was the A-holes that keep knowingly violate pupblic riule in a heavily used PRESERVE.,

  10. #10
    Downhill Messiah
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    he shou;dn't have to clear an area he has ridden many time before, if people didn't put huge immovable abjects in an obvious trail, all would have been good. dont blame the rider, blame the dick face that blatantly tried to hurt some one.
    Madspeed always prevails!

  11. #11
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    This is scary on so many different levels. I don't know the riders so I reserve comment, just glad things weren't worse. I would have never thought you could snap a steering tube on a 66. I suppose when we live in a high density urban area we have to deal with all kinds of nut cases but putting a rock in the way to harm someone is very disturbing. Apparently extra caution is warranted until the person is found. We had a old guy digging holes in the shadows on the trail on the Fullerton Loop it took a year but the police finally caught him. Problems is the court gave him probation but the booby traps stopped.

    Dean

  12. #12
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel

    Why would you ride blindly into something like that?

    Maybe there is something to be said for that, but do you really check out every line before you commit to it?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Maybe there is something to be said for that, but do you really check out every line before you commit to it?
    If it's a drop to something blind I do.

    But I'm a wuss.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    Nah, you played and you payed.

    Ever think stop and think of all the people ypu guys piss off riding off trail in a crowded heavily used PRESERVE? My guess is plenty.

    But no, booby traps arn't cool and I hope the perpetrator gets his due. Maybe it was the A-holes that keep knowingly violate pupblic riule in a heavily used PRESERVE.,
    While hiking with my family on Saturday, I had some words with a few people jumping at the intersection of the Hidden Valley trail and National. Their attitude was in between inferring that I was somehow in the wrong for suggesting that their actions were likely harm my right to ride and treating me like a pest. I only spoke up in the first place because I heard one of them *****ing when other mountain bikers told them that moving rocks was lame.

    One of them, Ryan, played the race card and introduced himself as a Native American and said that I as a white man had no right to tell him what to do. ( I can't even think of a proper response to this comment. )

    They did replace the boulder that they had moved off of the edge of the trail to ease their landing, but were less than contrite in ridiculing myself and family by upbraiding us for being off trail because we were sitting on the boulder that forms fat man's pass.

    My original intent was not to publish this here and provide further documentation of bad behaviour by mountain bikers. But here I see people publishing photographs of their own illegal actions. This is just crazy and stupid. If you want to catch the booby trapper, sit and wait and photograph him. Not yourselves.

    This particular stunt went right across the National Trail and was performed in full view of several groups of hikers. The action of this particular group weren't especially irresponsible or destructive, but they left a pretty bad taste in my mouth in that they didn't take some needed advice and made me out to be the bad person in the whole situation. This attitude smacks of a mentality of entitlement.

    Please try to remember that South Mountain is a treasure. I can hardly believe my good luck in being able to ride such excellent trails right from my house. It's just amazing that the trails are so open to bicycles and that most of the hikers have a very accepting attitude towards mountain biking here.
    "Thank you, God, for letting me have another day"
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  15. #15
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    im buzzed and read this but why name your self hikerdave? are you looking to play both sides?

    I could give two shits about how whom ever was riding, "you" . . . not you dave .. . just cost this kid (man . . .cause hes a f u c k i n pinner) a friggin fork and atleast days riding.

    The only bottom line here is someone took it upon themselves to be a malicious mother ducker and upon their own determination and sheer lack any other indivudals wellbeing decide that injuring some said rider is the best way to go. F u ck man I live in one of the worst HOA's in the Valley and it pisses me more off to read about this than have to pay $409 a month for my shite arese HOA's. . .

    SOMO is a treasure . . . im starting to find that but it's full of arsehole riders, hikers, and f in whatever else.

    rant over. . .

    Mike sorry man. . . guess you jinxed yourself when you asked me on friday if I wanted to trade forks. . .

    Hit me up if you need one.
    Last edited by Truckee Trash; 01-11-2009 at 09:30 PM.

  16. #16
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    Stu, I didn't know you were out there today. You must have left before we got there. Must just missed you too Riggse! Would have been good to see you guys!

    Honestly, I was more concerned when I saw Mikey driving the short bus from Buena Vista
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  17. #17
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    I've been told many, many times by IMBA and CORBA that the Golden Riding Rule is to always ride in control. Control, by nature, includes being able to stop in time for inexsplicable, unforseen objects,as the nature of the condition of trails is in a constant state of change b y Mother Nature. If you can't and don't stop in time, then you exercised poor judgement and were not riding in control.
    Good judgment comes from experience, Experience comes from bad judgment.

    I ride on trails full of bullsh*t, postholes full of Horsesh*t, multi use trails full of dogsh*t, and there's some trails in Orange and San Diego county, California where some SOB is dumping his own human feces in a choice spot on a single track where you can't see it, but you'll know it as you roll through it, what it is.

    The moral of the story is...

    Ride in control, you just don't know what kind of sh*t you'll run into on the trails.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    Nah, you played and you payed.

    Ever think stop and think of all the people ypu guys piss off riding off trail in a crowded heavily used PRESERVE? My guess is plenty.

    But no, booby traps arn't cool and I hope the perpetrator gets his due. Maybe it was the A-holes that keep knowingly violate pupblic riule in a heavily used PRESERVE.,
    +1 !!!!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    I've been told many, many times by IMBA and CORBA that the Golden Riding Rule is to always ride in control. Control, by nature, includes being able to stop in time for inexsplicable, unforseen objects,as the nature of the condition of trails is in a constant state of change b y Mother Nature. If you can't and don't stop in time, then you exercised poor judgement and were not riding in control.
    Good judgment comes from experience, Experience comes from bad judgment.

    I ride on trails full of bullsh*t, postholes full of Horsesh*t, multi use trails full of dogsh*t, and there's some trails in Orange and San Diego county, California where some SOB is dumping his own human feces in a choice spot on a single track where you can't see it, but you'll know it as you roll through it, what it is.

    The moral of the story is...

    Ride in control, you just don't know what kind of sh*t you'll run into on the trails.
    I'd like to see you stop in the middle of a near-vertical rock roller. The fact that Mike didn't die is a testament to his bike control.

    I was told that this section had been ridden yesterday and was clear. True, you should always check that the landing is clear, but its pretty sad that someone took it upon themselves to set a trap like this

    Glad to see Mike is ok (Posh too, glad you didn't squash Mike!) and I will be more vigilant in double checking trail features before riding them.

  20. #20
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    Call me ignorant... but I am curious why it is assumed that the rock was placed there as "a trap"?

    Is the line not off trail?

    Is it not possible that the rock was placed there to close this route?

    Would a smaller rock offered any resistance what so ever and in turn would a smaller rock have closed this line successfully?

    SoMo is a great place to ride with endless combination of obstacles both on and off trails. However, if we (the small, almost powerless minority of mountain bikers) keep up this attitude of trail building when we see fit, I see SoMo being lost to all those of the two wheeled persuasion.
    Just keep pedaling...

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    I ride on trails full of bullsh*t, postholes full of Horsesh*t, multi use trails full of dogsh*t, and there's some trails in Orange and San Diego county, California where some SOB is dumping his own human feces in a choice spot on a single track where you can't see it, but you'll know it as you roll through it, what it is.

    hahaha i'm a san diego rider and i have seen exactly this... bucketloads.... straight nasty

  22. #22
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    .....

    Quote Originally Posted by Elvota
    Call me ignorant... but I am curious why it is assumed that the rock was placed there as "a trap"?

    Is the line not off trail?

    Is it not possible that the rock was placed there to close this route?

    Would a smaller rock offered any resistance what so ever and in turn would a smaller rock have closed this line successfully?

    SoMo is a great place to ride with endless combination of obstacles both on and off trails. However, if we (the small, almost powerless minority of mountain bikers) keep up this attitude of trail building when we see fit, I see SoMo being lost to all those of the two wheeled persuasion.

    This was not placed there to close of the route, it was placed there to harm someone. The only people who have the right to place anything anywhere are the park rangers or people told to do so by them. If that was the case it would have been placed at the head of the route along with more rocks and sticks, just like the other blocked areas.

    I wish I could have got them on film instead, but I dont think I have the time to stake out the trail in camo and follow anyone who looks like they might be doing more than hiking or riding. All I could do is capture what happened and simply want people to be aware of how dangerous these traps can be, I hope it doesnt take someone to break thier neck or die to get people to realize this is not ok.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  23. #23
    sixsixtysix
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    Ah yes, the typical winter rush of trail users has once again caused SoMo to become a freaking zoo. Here's how you can always tell.

    1: 500 people who look like they just ate their 1,000,000th double whopper are all wandering around lost on the trails. To the fat chic with the ass crack hanging out that was visible from 200 yards away on Holbert yesterday, when we take the time to stop and tell you and your 15 children to not sit directly in the trail, it means DO NOT SIT DIRECTLY IN THE TRAIL. It does not mean move 5 feet to a blind corner and sit back down, which ended up causing a nasty crash.

    2: People are all out hiking in those new shoes and riding those walmart bikes they got for xmas from their significant others as a subtle hint it was time to get off the couch. These folks stand out by the look of death on their faces and or they are puking on the side of the trail (saw this one on Saturday).

    3: Every hiker feels they need to have a witty comment when they pass you while waiting for them on the trail. My favorites of the past weekend;

    Lady walking the opposite direction as we were riding: "If you're going to come from behind, just tell me when ok!" Yeah, ok..... Maybe my mind is in the gutter, but good for a laugh.

    And lady who took 15 minutes to lumber uphill 25 yards: "The trails are really crowded, you guys must hate us out-of-towners during tourist season." Hmmm.... Yup, and if it's tourist season, does that mean I get to shoot you?

    4: Hikers will ***** and moan about bikers being off the trail endlessly, yet you can basically look around and see herd's of off trail hikers standing on every ridgeline on the mountain. 90% of which do not have access trails to the tops of them.

    5: The emboldened hiker, fresh on their high horse's and New Year's resolutions decide that anyone not carrying a walking stick is evil and must be punished by restricting their rights to the same trails they are using by placing boobie traps. There were a few noticeable, feeble attempts on National on Saturday which were promptly removed. And of course obviously the one that got Mike yesterday.


    So that brings me to this; Maybe it's time to start boobie trapping the off trail hiking routes. Pungy sticks? Blankets of Cholla balls? Massive amounts of feces'? I am sure us imaginative bikers can come up with something to make hikers think twice about using trails that are open to all user groups.

    If your sarcasm detector hasn't registered off the BS meter by this part, then you obviously need to lighten up and realize just how ridiculous it would be for biker's to try to restrict ANY trail feature from hiker's and yet this is the rationale that these people who are placing these traps and from the looks of it, some of you in this thread are using.

    No one posted anything about the hiker who attacked a rider on the fire road a few weeks ago by knocking them off their bike and then throwing large rocks at them before jumping on and smashing their bike. But the second one hiker has to step off the tail fo avoid a bike, then mountain bikers are the anti-christ.

    Trying to seriously harm someone for being part of a user demographic is nothing short of bigotry and criminal. As it was suggested, maybe I will start camping out with the camera in order to catch the perpetrators in the act. But I will say, anyone I catch personally doing it probably won't like the outcome.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerdave
    While hiking with my family on Saturday, I had some words with a few people jumping at the intersection of the Hidden Valley trail and National. Their attitude was in between inferring that I was somehow in the wrong for suggesting that their actions were likely harm my right to ride and treating me like a pest. I only spoke up in the first place because I heard one of them *****ing when other mountain bikers told them that moving rocks was lame.

    One of them, Ryan, played the race card and introduced himself as a Native American and said that I as a white man had no right to tell him what to do. ( I can't even think of a proper response to this comment. )

    They did replace the boulder that they had moved off of the edge of the trail to ease their landing, but were less than contrite in ridiculing myself and family by upbraiding us for being off trail because we were sitting on the boulder that forms fat man's pass.

    My original intent was not to publish this here and provide further documentation of bad behaviour by mountain bikers. But here I see people publishing photographs of their own illegal actions. This is just crazy and stupid. If you want to catch the booby trapper, sit and wait and photograph him. Not yourselves.

    This particular stunt went right across the National Trail and was performed in full view of several groups of hikers. The action of this particular group weren't especially irresponsible or destructive, but they left a pretty bad taste in my mouth in that they didn't take some needed advice and made me out to be the bad person in the whole situation. This attitude smacks of a mentality of entitlement.

    Please try to remember that South Mountain is a treasure. I can hardly believe my good luck in being able to ride such excellent trails right from my house. It's just amazing that the trails are so open to bicycles and that most of the hikers have a very accepting attitude towards mountain biking here.
    Not trying to be a dic here Dave, but what do you expect? Were you really trying to educate them? Much needed advice? Do you know when the park will be closed to all bikers?

  25. #25
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    Wait...so if you had stayed on the trail you wouldn't have hit the obstacle? Am I reading that right?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Ah yes, the typical winter rush of trail users has once again caused SoMo to become a freaking zoo. Here's how you can always tell.

    1: 500 people who look like they just ate their 1,000,000th double whopper are all wandering around lost on the trails. To the fat chic with the ass crack hanging out that was visible from 200 yards away on Holbert yesterday, when we take the time to stop and tell you and your 15 children to not sit directly in the trail, it means DO NOT SIT DIRECTLY IN THE TRAIL. It does not mean move 5 feet to a blind corner and sit back down, which ended up causing a nasty crash.

    2: People are all out hiking in those new shoes and riding those walmart bikes they got for xmas from their significant others as a subtle hint it was time to get off the couch. These folks stand out by the look of death on their faces and or they are puking on the side of the trail (saw this one on Saturday).

    3: Every hiker feels they need to have a witty comment when they pass you while waiting for them on the trail. My favorites of the past weekend;

    Lady walking the opposite direction as we were riding: "If you're going to come from behind, just tell me when ok!" Yeah, ok..... Maybe my mind is in the gutter, but good for a laugh.

    And lady who took 15 minutes to lumber uphill 25 yards: "The trails are really crowded, you guys must hate us out-of-towners during tourist season." Hmmm.... Yup, and if it's tourist season, does that mean I get to shoot you?

    4: Hikers will ***** and moan about bikers being off the trail endlessly, yet you can basically look around and see herd's of off trail hikers standing on every ridgeline on the mountain. 90% of which do not have access trails to the tops of them.

    5: The emboldened hiker, fresh on their high horse's and New Year's resolutions decide that anyone not carrying a walking stick is evil and must be punished by restricting their rights to the same trails they are using by placing boobie traps. There were a few noticeable, feeble attempts on National on Saturday which were promptly removed. And of course obviously the one that got Mike yesterday.


    So that brings me to this; Maybe it's time to start boobie trapping the off trail hiking routes. Pungy sticks? Blankets of Cholla balls? Massive amounts of feces'? I am sure us imaginative bikers can come up with something to make hikers think twice about using trails that are open to all user groups.

    If your sarcasm detector hasn't registered off the BS meter by this part, then you obviously need to lighten up and realize just how ridiculous it would be for biker's to try to restrict ANY trail feature from hiker's and yet this is the rationale that these people who are placing these traps and from the looks of it, some of you in this thread are using.

    No one posted anything about the hiker who attacked a rider on the fire road a few weeks ago by knocking them off their bike and then throwing large rocks at them before jumping on and smashing their bike. But the second one hiker has to step off the tail fo avoid a bike, then mountain bikers are the anti-christ.

    Trying to seriously harm someone for being part of a user demographic is nothing short of bigotry and criminal. As it was suggested, maybe I will start camping out with the camera in order to catch the perpetrators in the act. But I will say, anyone I catch personally doing it probably won't like the outcome.


  27. #27
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Wait...so if you had stayed on the trail you wouldn't have hit the obstacle? Am I reading that right?

    It was one of the side lines that gaps back onto the trail. No different than the "Super Spine" on top of the waterfall that you always see people up there riding.

  28. #28
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    It boggles my mind that people aren't understanding that someone blocked the landing and not the takeoff. That implies that they meant for something bad to happen.

    I don't care what the reasoning is, there is simply no excuse for that kind of behavior.

    Edited to add: If someone had a problem with a line being ridden, they should have informed the rangers and let them make the determination/choose to block it off. Not take the law into their own hands.

  29. #29
    Meatbomb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greffster
    another ignorant comment from philbo....
    i'm not even bright enough to use my own words

  30. #30
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    Good job!

    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    It boggles my mind that people aren't understanding that someone blocked the landing and not the takeoff. That implies that they meant for something bad to happen.

    I don't care what the reasoning is, there is simply no excuse for that kind of behavior.

    Edited to add: If someone had a problem with a line being ridden, they should have informed the rangers and let them make the determination/choose to block it off. Not take the law into their own hands.
    +1 ......AMEN!
    "Its like Church to me, Like Church is, what it is for other people"

  31. #31
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    just curious

    to the OP, (or anyone else who saw this rock) ...are you sure the rock was placed there? Is it possible that it it occurred naturally? Mountains eventually crumble and rocks tumble. Or could you see an obvious spot where the rock was originally located and assistance from gravity would not be possible?

    Either way, glad that guy's OK

    PS - I usually check to make sure a landing is clear before I commit - Usually. (I would say NOBODY checks everything ALL the time - blind corners are a good example)
    If you don't check, sometimes It'll bite ya, that's just the way it is --- my $.02
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    It was one of the side lines that gaps back onto the trail. No different than the "Super Spine" on top of the waterfall that you always see people up there riding.
    and this took place on ROCK not on a spider dirt line that will effect erosion. and lets say it wasnt,,,,,it doesnt give others the right to destroy the park to try and stop another person that they think is destoying the park! TWO WRONGS egual a HIKERS RIGHT?
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  33. #33
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    Hey guys Michael isn't even posting in this thread so watch how your dirrecting comments towards him.He didn't start the thread and when I seen him last night he didn't seem up set over it . More upset that his for broke than anything.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    Hey guys Michael isn't even posting in this thread so watch how your dirrecting comments towards him.He didn't start the thread and when I seen him last night he didn't seem up set over it . More upset that his for broke than anything.

    Yeah, thanks for clearing that up CW. Mikey (The one who crashed) isn't the OP and like what was stated, when we saw him right after it happened, didn't seem too tore up over it, but it still doesn't make it right.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    to the OP, (or anyone else who saw this rock) ...are you sure the rock was placed there? Is it possible that it it occurred naturally? Mountains eventually crumble and rocks tumble. Or could you see an obvious spot where the rock was originally located and assistance from gravity would not be possible?
    That line was clear the day before. Its highly unlikely that a rock falling would also lead to logs piled in the landing as well...

    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    PS - I usually check to make sure a landing is clear before I commit - Usually.
    If you don't check, sometimes It'll bite ya --- my $.02
    I bet he will now, I know I will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    to the OP, (or anyone else who saw this rock) ...are you sure the rock was placed there? Is it possible that it it occurred naturally? Mountains eventually crumble and rocks tumble. Or could you see an obvious spot where the rock was originally located and assistance from gravity would not be possible?

    Either way, glad that guy's OK

    PS - I usually check to make sure a landing is clear before I commit - Usually
    THIS ALL WAS deffinatly placed!! with help from more than one person! that amount of rocks cound not have even found themself there from an earthquake! and logs that were probably sitting were they laid for years, were placed there with the pointed ends up! YOU ARE RIGHT we need to check the trail every hour becuase someone could change it before you even make your way back through!
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    Hey guys Michael isn't even posting in this thread so watch how your dirrecting comments towards him.He didn't start the thread and when I seen him last night he didn't seem up set over it . More upset that his for broke than anything.
    YOUR correct! ya he wasnt too upset about it, either am I. Just sucks, and I feel bad that it happened!
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Yeah, thanks for clearing that up CW. Mikey (The one who crashed) isn't the OP and like what was stated, when we saw him right after it happened, didn't seem too tore up over it, but it still doesn't make it right.
    Oh by no means was the trap right. I just see comments dirrected towards Mike as if he posted the thread
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  39. #39
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    Maybe we just need to take the same approach as the red light and speeding camera's and start putting these up out there...


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    Quote Originally Posted by RidingRiot
    YOUR correct! ya he wasnt too upset about it, either am I. Just sucks, and I feel bad that it happened!
    Just glad he's ok, pretty scary.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    ... Its highly unlikely that a rock falling would also lead to logs piled in the landing as well...
    I would say that is indeed unlikely
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    I would say that is indeed unlikely
    I do see your point HIGHDELL i have come across things in the trail and have asked myself now how did that get there, but I dont jump to conclusions and know that the mountain is alive and naturally changes. but this one on the other had.............
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  43. #43
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    So I should start checking the landing of the drop on the Mcdowell competitive track tech loop? Or would I be better off walking the trail before riding it. The rationale of checking the landing or trail ahead of you is ridiculous! Unless your Robbie Bourdon.
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  44. #44
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    was this reported to the ranger?

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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by azdog
    So I should start checking the landing of the drop on the Mcdowell competitive track tech loop? Or would I be better off walking the trail before riding it. The rationale of checking the landing or trail ahead of you is ridiculous! Unless your Robbie Bourdon.
    is Robbie on a 20? oh wait he is just under 5 foot! nice Signature dogg too bad he is not been the same with out sunday or more specific with out the DW
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  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    If someone had a problem with a line being ridden, they should have informed the rangers and let them make the determination/choose to block it off. Not take the law into their own hands.
    Logical conclusion of this sort of reasoning: If someone wanted to ride a new line, they should have informed the rangers and let them make the determination/choose to open it up. Not take the law into their own hands.

    I'm not singling you out, Kavu. I'm just sayin', bringing "the law" into this sort of conversation as a defense takes us into some pretty strange territory.

    I'm glad Mikey (?) is okay. My apologies for aiming my "you" at the OP.

    p.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidingRiot
    is Robbie on a 20? oh wait he is just under 5 foot! nice Signature dogg too bad he is not been the same with out sunday or more specific with out the DW
    You can thank Kavu for that quote. I think he was feeling zesty that day.
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greffster
    I know people are gonna say well then stay on the trail and bla bla bla...
    Sorry, I'm confused. Were you actually riding off trail? Then what is your issue?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    was this reported to the ranger?
    One should ride in control on a trail that is supposed to be there. What is not to know? Why place blame on anyone besides yourself?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmarkos
    Not trying to be a dic here Dave, but what do you expect? Were you really trying to educate them? Much needed advice? Do you know when the park will be closed to all bikers?

    Trying to be a dic either, but how else can one approach this situation? We (mtbers) need to learn how to "police" ourselves. we (those that post on MTBR) know where the grey areas are when it comes to riding SoMo.

    Moving rocks is not grey.

    So by your approach, we (concerned mtbers) should never speak up on the trail to any user that we see grossly breaking the rules?
    b

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Sorry, I'm confused. Were you actually riding off trail? Then what is your issue?
    It sounds like the OP wants proper reimbursement for someone elses mistakes, yet is saying nothing is wrong with riding off-trail.
    Last edited by yetisurly; 01-12-2009 at 11:47 AM.

  52. #52
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    You need to read the thread or learn how to read....The OP is NOT the RIDER who broke his fork but a person that was with the rider.

    Don't you have a canal path to go ride?
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    You need to read the thread ....The OP is NOT the RIDER who broke his fork but a person that was with the rider.

    Don't you have a canal path to go ride?
    He doesn't read threads, he just stops in and drops turds of knowledge.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    He doesn't read threads, he just stops in and drops turds of knowledge.
    whoever.

  55. #55
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    Is this a large rock maybe .5 mile down from the saddle east of BV? on the trail next to it (south), is a jumbled set of rocks with 2 common lines going up - on the right between 2 boulders, on the left up a 2-3 foot very slanted ledge?

    If its the spot I am thinking, I saw one of the Rangers blocking an off-trail line there on Friday afternoon. The Ranger I have met before, he's a pretty thick dude with a light colored beard, and he always bikes (blue bike, not sure the model) - he's a good guy, was heckling me while I was sessioning the lift on the left. He was moving a lot of debris around at the bottom of the big rockline to try to close the line. I did not see what he did at the top. If one of your friends rode it Saturday, then obviously what the Ranger did is not what caused the accident, thankfully. I'm sure from speaking with him on Friday and other times that his only intention was to close the line - he said lots of plastic and metal trail trash was ending up off-trail and the plants were getting destroyed.

    Anyway, best wishes to the guy who crashed and glad to see he was ok.
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    Is this a large rock maybe .5 mile down from the saddle east of BV? on the trail next to it (south), is a jumbled set of rocks with 2 common lines going up - on the right between 2 boulders, on the left up a 2-3 foot very slanted ledge?

    If its the spot I am thinking, I saw one of the Rangers blocking an off-trail line there on Friday afternoon. The Ranger I have met before, he's a pretty thick dude with a light colored beard, and he always bikes (blue bike, not sure the model) - he's a good guy, was heckling me while I was sessioning the lift on the left. He was moving a lot of debris around at the bottom of the big rockline to try to close the line. I did not see what he did at the top. If one of your friends rode it Saturday, then obviously what the Ranger did is not what caused the accident, thankfully. I'm sure from speaking with him on Friday and other times that his only intention was to close the line - he said lots of plastic and metal trail trash was ending up off-trail and the plants were getting destroyed.

    Anyway, best wishes to the guy who crashed and glad to see he was ok.

    That would be the spot and the Ranger would be Steve, aka Tank who rides a blue Transition Dirtbag. Although thats a really bad way to close a line...

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    That would be the spot and the Ranger would be Steve, aka Tank who rides a blue Transition Dirtbag. Although thats a really bad way to close a line...
    Well, there you go then. End of Thread. You were riding an apparently "off trail" (at least in the eye's of the park), so they tried to close it.

    Yes, it does seem odd that they would not put something at the top of the line, but then again, all the photos were of the landing, not the takeoff.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Well, there you go then. End of Thread. You were riding an apparently "off trail" (at least in the eye's of the park), so they tried to close it.

    Yes, it does seem odd that they would not put something at the top of the line, but then again, all the photos were of the landing, not the takeoff.

    I did not see all that Steve did. I asked him if he needed a little help, and he said he was wrapping up. That is all I know.
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  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Well, there you go then. End of Thread. You were riding an apparently "off trail" (at least in the eye's of the park), so they tried to close it.

    Yes, it does seem odd that they would not put something at the top of the line, but then again, all the photos were of the landing, not the takeoff.

    True, but for all we know he thought some ridiculous XCer was trying to ride UP that line

    That would explain the pile at the bottom.

  60. #60
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    the last time it was clear was Thur thought it was Fri but now u mention it, it was Thur. Even saw tank up top, kinda ironic...
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  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Well, there you go then. End of Thread. You were riding an apparently "off trail" (at least in the eye's of the park), so they tried to close it.

    Yes, it does seem odd that they would not put something at the top of the line, but then again, all the photos were of the landing, not the takeoff.
    Ya SIX "YOU" were riding an off trail! so they C blocked ya! lol jk
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  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    It sounds like the OP wants proper reimbursement for someone elses mistakes, yet is saying nothing is wrong with riding off-trail.

    does this activity threaten Illegal rides night rides...?

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidingRiot
    the last time it was clear was Thur thought it was Fri but now u mention it, it was Thur. Even saw tank up top, kinda ironic...

    He was probably getting payback on the Cactus boys for covering his Ranger truck in stickers last time he was at the shop!

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by RidingRiot
    Ya SIX "YOU" were riding an off trail! so they C blocked ya! lol jk
    Its ok, just wait until the "Super Booter" appears at the waterfall. That'll C block some people. muhahaha

    Friggin trails are all going to be wheel chair accessible soon at this rate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Its ok, just wait until the "Super Booter" appears at the waterfall. That'll C block some people. muhahaha

    Friggin trails are all going to be wheel chair accessible soon at this rate.
    Heck ya! cause technically if your in the air then your not off trail! Guess we will just send it from trail to trail ! and that shouldnt bother anyone
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    True, but for all we know he thought some ridiculous XCer was trying to ride UP that line

    That would explain the pile at the bottom.
    Well, when I did see the pics, my first thought was "man, that would be fun to try and climb up." Then again, I'm a complete puss.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Well, when I did see the pics, my first thought was "man, that would be fun to try and climb up." Then again, I'm a complete puss.
    at least your honest,,,,you wanted to get some!
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  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by KavuRider
    I'd like to see you stop in the middle of a near-vertical rock roller. The fact that Mike didn't die is a testament to his bike control.

    I was told that this section had been ridden yesterday and was clear. True, you should always check that the landing is clear, but its pretty sad that someone took it upon themselves to set a trap like this

    Glad to see Mike is ok (Posh too, glad you didn't squash Mike!) and I will be more vigilant in double checking trail features before riding them.

    Refer to Experience.... Experience tells me to let the trail leader go first... They are experienced. Hence, I never get exposed to blind sided risk, if the trail leader is qualified.

    What I find so irritating about this whole thread is that someone ASSumes Mike is owed or is entitled to a fork. That's faulty logic Be accountable for your action or inactions, (checking the landing). As long as Man has been trying to fly, takeoffs and landings have had perilous risk. End ot topic.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Well, when I did see the pics, my first thought was "man, that would be fun to try and climb up."
    SEE! You're busted!

    Honestly, I bet that's what he thought was happening because the top section is all rock slab's, so there really isn't a way to tell that people have ridden to the drop point without tire tracks. After the drop, there is maybe 10 feet of sand before it reconnects to the "actual" trail where you can see tire tracks. So I bet he thought people heading UP National were veering off and trying to climb up that.

    You damn UPHILL riders are ruining all the fun for the rest of us, don't you know that if you're going to ride off trail to not leave tire tracks

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Refer to Experience.... Experience tells me to let the trail leader go first... They are experienced. Hence, I never get exposed to blind sided risk, if the trail leader is qualified.

    What I find so irritating about this whole thread is that someone ASSumes Mike is owed or is entitled to a fork. That's faulty logic Be accountable for your action or inactions, (checking the landing). As long as Man has been trying to fly, takeoffs and landings have had perilous risk. End ot topic.
    "blind sided" risk lol .....ironic! MIKE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS THREAD! and DONT ASSume so like YOU ARE. he didnt ask for anything! the OP put it as a title of his thread....TOPIC STARTED!!! shoot if anything Zocchi should owe him! thats scary how that snapped! Ive seen it before though!
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  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Refer to Experience.... Experience tells me to let the trail leader go first... They are experienced. Hence, I never get exposed to blind sided risk, if the trail leader is qualified.
    Trail leader? What rides are you on, a guided tour? Do you not know how to read a trail? Do you ever ride alone?

    From here on out, I nominate Crazy J to be my trail leader.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Trail leader? What rides are you on, a guided tour? Do you not know how to read a trail? Do you ever ride alone?

    From here on out, I nominate Crazy J to be my trail leader.
    He will lead you straight to some thunderwokie's front yard! and then wonder why you are yealing at him for riding through his yard! Thats a good idea though just ride behind someone allways you know never look at the trail just fallow them! lol ......heres my jersey......."if you can read this you are not the Trail guide!"
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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    Trying to be a dic either, but how else can one approach this situation? We (mtbers) need to learn how to "police" ourselves. we (those that post on MTBR) know where the grey areas are when it comes to riding SoMo.

    Moving rocks is not grey.

    So by your approach, we (concerned mtbers) should never speak up on the trail to any user that we see grossly breaking the rules?
    By Dave's own admission the riders were not "grossly breaking the rules". He was expressing his frustration at the lack of respect in refference to his much needed advice.
    The area in question is hardly off trail.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmarkos
    By Dave's own admission the riders were not "grossly breaking the rules". He was expressing his frustration at the lack of respect in refference to his much needed advice.
    The area in question is hardly off trail.


    hardly off trail is now legit to ride? I am pretty sick of all the hardly off trail riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    hardly off trail is now legit to ride? I am pretty sick of all the hardly off trail riding.
    It like people think they can do whatever they want.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    It like people think they can do whatever they want.

    oh, they can and do. regardless of the consequence. rules are for other people.

  77. #77
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    this is why I stay the hell away from South mountain. The place is really unique, it has a paved shuttle road to the top and is a jewel for the valley, but it does have one serious drawback... way too many civilians. My suggustion do what we did up here in Flag, create a new area to ride that keeps you away from the general public. How long do you think it will take \until these user conflicts get bicycles banned from Somo permantly? Trail sabotage sucks, we had problems on the Blue Dot 3 years ago, so we moved and no longer have issues with other trail users.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by tmarkos
    By Dave's own admission the riders were not "grossly breaking the rules". He was expressing his frustration at the lack of respect in refference to his much needed advice.
    The area in question is hardly off trail.

    True, I was making a jump that movig rocks/boulders is Grossly breaking the rules. I agree that hitting that jump is not, provided one is not jumping over other trail users. but it is riding off trail.

    The reason for my post was to ask...How does one speak to another trail users when they are clearly breaking a rule without envoking the respose Dave got.

    being able to police ourselves in important. why?

    I truely believe that the City would let MTBer build features to suit their desire for "freeride" type lines. but ONLY in a desiganted area. Again this idea is not new. the "price" that the City asked was that we (mtber) stop building and riding off trail. Until that happens the prize of a new and improved Holbert Pit Free ride area will never happen.
    b

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinatorj
    this is why I stay the hell away from South mountain. The place is really unique, it has a paved shuttle road to the top and is a jewel for the valley, but it does have one serious drawback... way too many civilians. My suggustion do what we did up here in Flag, create a new area to ride that keeps you away from the general public. How long do you think it will take \until these user conflicts get bicycles banned from Somo permantly? Trail sabotage sucks, we had problems on the Blue Dot 3 years ago, so we moved and no longer have issues with other trail users.
    not too many civilians when its 110+ degrees out! New legit areas to ride already in progress. (with help from the city) away from traffic
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinatorj
    this is why I stay the hell away from South mountain. The place is really unique, it has a paved shuttle road to the top and is a jewel for the valley, but it does have one serious drawback... way too many civilians. My suggustion do what we did up here in Flag, create a new area to ride that keeps you away from the general public. How long do you think it will take \until these user conflicts get bicycles banned from Somo permantly? Trail sabotage sucks, we had problems on the Blue Dot 3 years ago, so we moved and no longer have issues with other trail users.

    We do have places but most are under snow or don't have long dh runs to utilize. Also there is no other place in the valley for a sustained shuttlable downhill.

    Places like Nra, the playground, candy mt ,flag and pinal all help draw riders away from Somo but during the winter SoMo is where its at.
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  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    We do have places but most are under snow or don't have long dh runs to utilize. Also there is no other place in the valley for a sustained shuttlable downhill.

    Places like Nra, the playground, candy mt ,flag and pinal all help draw riders away from Somo but during the winter SoMo is where its at.
    Can you say Black Canyon City? This is where I would be building if I lived in the Valley. I know it is a little drive, but there is a road to the top and the building does not look too difficult. No trees to remove at the start of every riding season.
    How can you really get in a fast full run if you are constantly dealing with the distrction of Fat people eating Whoppers while out for a leisurally stroll down Holbert, etc... I rode down there for a while and really found this to be a downer.

  82. #82
    dirt visionary
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    Yeah BCT is a long way away for me I can get to the top of the pinals quicker. Plus Nra is in my back yard so I got my jumping fix covered. Myself I stay away from SoMo during busy days and really haven't had any issues with hikers. When on Somo I follow the rules of the trail and I also stay on trail . Yes some of the side stuff looks yummy but in a preserve I just don't feel right indulging.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greffster
    I can say personaly if I catch anyone doing that I will smash them with a rock.

    I hope whoever did this or likes to do these things sees this.

    Better hope its the rangers that catch u doing these things is all I can say.

    So please next time u think of moving rocks or doing some vigilanty stuff plz dont....
    Will there be pics of the OP opening a can of whupass on the ranger and making him buy a new fork?

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjeff
    Will there be pics of the OP opening a can of whupass on the ranger and making him buy a new fork?
    Oh snap!

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by azjeff
    Will there be pics of the OP opening a can of whupass on the ranger and making him buy a new fork?
    Cage match for sure! With cholla's as the weapon of choice.

  86. #86
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    lol

    no pictures but i will get video..allready made a holster on mybiketo carry my stick with nails in it.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    Yes some of the side stuff looks yummy but in a preserve I just don't feel right indulging.
    Agreed.
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  88. #88
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    Not familiar with this spot?

    Is this really slightly off trail or really off trail??

    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  89. #89
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    Did I miss Traildocs post?

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    One should ride in control on a trail that is supposed to be there.
    Good advice! I apply the same logic when I am making love to my wife. So far, so good. Nothing broken.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Good advice! I apply the same logic when I am making love to my wife. So far, so good. Nothing broken.
    Oh man, nothing more fun than freeriding in all those areas you're not supposed to be in, though. The thrill of breaking taboos!

    p.

  92. #92
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    rocklines...

    This would/could be an adopted rock line similar to other lines along the trails that Ranger Steve and I looked over earlier this season (some other lines need some armor to avoid the scarring a landing or run out area leaves). Blatant use of rock/alternate lines while there is heavy mixed use is bad news regardless of acceptance, i.e. the trail gap hiker dave was referring to earlier. That trail gap line is actual cool line but it is enticing to too many where it is when congested (better to pass on the tricky lines during those times). Using accepted standards of difficulty, the trickier stuff needs to be further into a system or away from congested areas. If lines cause unsightly entrance or exits, they are no good in the preserve. Take the play area near the Mormon/National connector. It was looking like an OHV area and attracting too many goobs breaking ankles and the like.

    Someone local needs to step up and be the liaison with the park and the gravity riders. Having a bunch of yokels tearing it up will not be a long term benefit, much like crapping in your bed, eventually you will have no place to play. The city has several new areas in need of public input coming this season. Let's put positive energy into more riding areas.

    Riot, you know what good judgment is. I was riding that line (though not the huck/roll line) long ago. IT is up to you guys to keep it clean and low key. Respect.

    Though this is not NRA and in obvious threat of closure, it is always going to be multi user and needs to be treated differently than a retention basin or borrow pit. (I will get on the NRA thread in a bit...).

    Rocklines need to be considered and treated with respect not thrashed and ragged, by either riders or saboteurs.

    Your NorCal buddy watching over you...

  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Oh man, nothing more fun than freeriding in all those areas you're not supposed to be in, though. The thrill of breaking taboos!

    p.
    Freeriding in those areas leads to access issues in the areas we are supposed to be in.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandyBoy
    Iand there's some trails in Orange and San Diego county, California where some SOB is dumping his own human feces in a choice spot on a single track where you can't see it, but you'll know it as you roll through it, .
    Santiago Oaks Regional Park in Orange, CA.

    Dean

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Freeriding in those areas leads to access issues in the areas we are supposed to be in.
    So you only do it when you're on a ride you're not expecting to return to any time soon.

    Hopefully the metaphor isn't lost on all those freeriders who think they own South Mountain. SoMo isn't your b*tch, she's your wife!

    p.

  96. #96
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    Isn't it funny how everyone's tone changed when we found out a ranger closed the trail? Just an observation......
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

  97. #97
    caninus xerophilous
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    All right my beer goggles are off.

    Yeah, I'm an a-hole, I didn't mean to say it but ment what I said. I sincerly hope that Mike heals well, JRA's his fork and hucks another day.

    I was just saying that what we do is seen differently by a whole lot of people. And that we need to be cognizant of that in high usage areas, especially in what amounts to a high visability nature preserve.


    Anyhow, good times at Oak Flats yesterday. Clearly the problem is that you Phonecians need more places to ride.

    If you don't understand, particularly those of you Phonecians who free ride session on SoMo, You should save up all your bread and fly Trans Love Airlines to Oak Flats, Arizona. Then maybe you will understand. It will be worth it.

    It would not take much bread, its just up the 60 apiece, yonder the tunnel. With your metropolis' awsome road network and the good mecxican food in Superior...it's strangely vacant up there on MTB/Free Ride scene.

    Upper Oak Flats is a fricking free ride play ground. Not much DH, but not much pedaling either. And that is just scratching the surface. Go see for yourselves.

    Just saying.
    Last edited by SunDog; 01-12-2009 at 06:42 PM.

  98. #98
    dirt visionary
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    been there done that ........its fun but no mecca
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  99. #99
    caninus xerophilous
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    been there done that ........its fun but no mecca
    Really. Where did you ride?

    Did you come across the fossilized freeride park? Try diving into any of the canyons? There are infainately more hucks, wall rides, chutes, slick rock and the like than SoMo has to offer. Just not alot of cheap momentum.

    Maybe you should look around there some more, higher up.

    BTW: Distributing the love was more my intent than pimping was.

  100. #100
    dirt visionary
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    I am not much of a hucker. So that stuff doesn't appeal .I ride Somo for the downhill and trail riding.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  101. #101
    caninus xerophilous
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    I am not much of a hucker. So that stuff doesn't appeal .I ride Somo for the downhill and trail riding.
    I hear ya, no shuttable G out there. But there is a ton of potential for FR and TB'ing out there.

    Edit: I'd venture to say that there is more potential out there than that pit you Phonecians ride in. Next time I'll get some pics of that fossil FR line.

  102. #102
    sonoranbiker
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    Every time I read a thread like this, I think "Thank God I don't live in Phoenix". It seems like you guys are just trying to ride too hard in an area that is too congested. Like it or not, the hikers will always win, especially in urban areas. If you guys want to huck and do stunts, you probably need an area that will be off limits to hikers.

    Sundog- are you talking about Oak Flats, like the campground near the Queen Creek Canyon bouldering area? That area is BEAUTIFUL. I've never ridden there, but have climbed there several times. Last I heard, the mine was going to expand into the campground and surrounding canyons, and it was going to closed. Any idea what the current status is?

  103. #103
    dirt visionary
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    I hear ya, no shuttable G out there. But there is a ton of potential for FR and TB'ing out there.

    Edit: I'd venture to say that there is more potential out there than that pit you Phonecians ride in. Next time I'll get some pics of that fossil FR line.
    Na the pit is for freeride that includes jumping mainly and no other place has that. Have you ever been to the pit I mean well over 100 features out there ? Yeah no crazy somo rock lines or moab like slickrock but when it comes to flowy jump lines its very very hard to beat.But yours and my opions maybe different on what freeride means to one another and thats fine.

    Also this talk of riding b-lines on Somo is basically no different than you south folk ridng b-lines on Goulder,Milli ect. Those freeride b-lines on system trails are almost just as bad.Difference if I remember right is its not in a preserve.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  104. #104
    I'm Lazy, So I Shuttle
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    well once again It looks like I started post that stirred the pot.. I was never serious about the buying a new fork thing just seemed like a good title, but seems like some people took that as a factual statement. This never was posted requested by the rider that was hurt just me venting on how dangerous this is. I completely understand about riding on the trail and do so. I also hate to see the natural habitat being messed up.
    Take the post as what it was ment to be, a warning for anyone that placing this rocks is dangerous. And we all need to be more careful.
    I can see that the ranger that blocked it probley thought it was a climbing spot rather than a decent spot, just think these blocks need to be thought through a little more.
    Anyways point taken, lesson learned all around "I hope, and lets all be glad the rider was ok, it could have been any of us. Lucky he is a young guy and bounces still when he hits the ground.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  105. #105
    Salty Dog
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    I've given this whole thread way too much thought. I think it's given me a headache. I just don't understand the rationale or logic, should either be present, in the assertion that someone owes Mike anything because Mike was riding a mountain bike and crashed and broke it.

    I guess the idea of riding trails that are intended to be ridden just doesn't do it for some of us, huh?

    Not trying to start anything, but Greffster have you and/or Mike been involved in any of the trail building/maintenance projects anyplace you ride? If not, why?

    Over the years I have broken bikes. I never thought to blame it on someone else.

    Must be a new concept.
    Ventana El Rey - sweet 9er magic! OR sweet Serendipity Superfly 100

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Oh snap!

    That's funny......CAUSE I just called him....didn't get ahold of'em but left a message to call me back due to this matter...I'll roll with that PHAT GIRL:thumbs up: with my banana suit on...

    All I can say is that I "REALY" hope that this is not the case "Steve spotting rocks in the run out of any ILLEGAL trail" with out the proper "SIGNAGE" leading into this area from both sides...if you AVID users of the PRESERVE have noticed in certain areas these signs exist and are placed so that any user can clearly see (HEY, DONT GO HERE)
    I can't stress this topic enough, if this is true Steve has gone about this in the wrong manner........... RANGER er NOT and possible put his JOB on the line...

    As far as this "SIDE CUT" route that's been there fer years with no problems what so ever.
    Is there a sign that says this is closed so rider/hikers know that this is not the way of the trail er danger is ahead "NO" so there's a few SIDE CUTS on and of the trail that lead back to the trail...SO F' ING what.. till they're closed people will continue to hike/ride that area.

    WHAT ABOUT ALL THE HIKERS WITH KIDS HOPPING FROM BOULDER TO BOULDER OFF THE TRAIL HALF WAY UP SURVEY MARKER TRAIL AND MOST OTHER PLACE'S ON SoMo.

    AT least once a week I see a group of ladies (LADIES) with there cute lill boston terrier hiking up the South face of SoMo from Desert Classic....

    Does this chap my BUTT....HECK yeah it does...What have I done to be a better person in this situation..... OH..... with signs posted by the way in that area, I yelled up to the group of ladies saying that it was closed for a reason....RESULT = they keep hiking...
    Next...later that week I come across some Bike Patrol Guys and let them in on what I've been coming across....RESULT= NOTHING:thumbs up:

    They were like "yeah we deal with that a lot"..."really cant do anything till we CATCH THEM"

    YES......JUSTICE.........NOT

    Now, do I:
    A) Foot traps
    B) Dog traps with cholla
    C) Create a massive rock avalanche
    D) Get 15gal of gasoline (kinda cheap nowa days) so make it 30gal. line it along the trial
    set it afire when there on it....as you can see I'm just being stupid ..

    Point being we all cant win.

    That probably would've been me in the pic. with Mike we both go back and forth a bit and I'm usually the one in front in that area....It just hit me now, I had no idea that a community that shares such a rich and deep passion for that same feeling for RIDING A BIKE up/down/sideways that we could be so thinly spread and weak with no voice to be heard...instead just a bunch

    I'm curious to see the out come of this topic.

    I stand behind Mike 110% on how he feels.. and I'm really glad that he's OK, I work with the kid, he's a good dude and likes to rip it and to have that possible taken away cause some j-hole decides he needs to cock block something needs to think twice about how they might affect a person that might roll thru there with that BLIND TRUST.....

    I'm selling my bike's I'm done with this

  107. #107
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    Too much caffeine...

  108. #108
    Bandolero
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    My Dad's a TV Repairman

    He's got lots of tools.

    That'll buff right out.
    Slow-core. -.. .-. .. -. -.- .... --- -- . -... .-. . .--

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog
    I've given this whole thread way too much thought. I think it's given me a headache. I just don't understand the rationale or logic, should either be present, in the assertion that someone owes Mike anything because Mike was riding a mountain bike and crashed and broke it.

    I guess the idea of riding trails that are intended to be ridden just doesn't do it for some of us, huh?

    Not trying to start anything, but Greffster have you and/or Mike been involved in any of the trail building/maintenance projects anyplace you ride? If not, why?

    Over the years I have broken bikes. I never thought to blame it on someone else.

    Must be a new concept.
    It usually helps if you read every post before commenting. The title was a joke. It has been said countless times in this thread.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    So you only do it when you're on a ride you're not expecting to return to any time soon.

    Hopefully the metaphor isn't lost on all those freeriders who think they own South Mountain. SoMo isn't your b*tch, she's your wife!

    p.
    That works. The probelm is, these days I have not been riding much at all.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  111. #111
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog
    I've given this whole thread way too much thought. I think it's given me a headache. I just don't understand the rationale or logic, should either be present, in the assertion that someone owes Mike anything because Mike was riding a mountain bike and crashed and broke it.

    I guess the idea of riding trails that are intended to be ridden just doesn't do it for some of us, huh?

    Not trying to start anything, but Greffster have you and/or Mike been involved in any of the trail building/maintenance projects anyplace you ride? If not, why?

    Over the years I have broken bikes. I never thought to blame it on someone else.

    Must be a new concept.

    wow someone else took the title serious! Again it was a joke... and Not sure why u are asking about trail work, and yes I have and do often.
    I hike all over the valley with my dogs and they wear packs to carry trash and glass off the mountains and into trash cans, as well as My pack. Not sure why that has anything to do with what happened but ok....
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  112. #112
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    now that's some funny chit!

  113. #113
    pedaller
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    ....as you can see I'm just being stupid ...
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  114. #114
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    National, especially on a weekend is the wrong trail to shuttle on.
    1. too many people
    2. the actual trail is tame enough that the best DH/FR lines are off or trail side (off limits)
    3. there are much better trails to shuttle that will not get this kind of exposure
    4. if you ride up it on a busy day you have a feel for how busy it's going to be on a decent. and you'll see if the trail has changed
    5. shuttling makes asses bigger
    6. momma didn't raise no shuttlers!

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greffster
    This was not placed there to close of the route, it was placed there to harm someone. The only people who have the right to place anything anywhere are the park rangers or people told to do so by them. If that was the case it would have been placed at the head of the route along with more rocks and sticks, just like the other blocked areas.
    So, just so I understand... you and your crew clear these off route lines with rangers before creating them?

    If not, why not?

    If you don't have to consult with anyone before you create them... then why does anyone have to consult with anyone before closing them?
    Just keep pedaling...

    visit the sticki chronicles

  116. #116
    caninus xerophilous
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    I know whats there and I salute the Pit and all of its goodness and the elbow grease that went into it. More places to ride, more disciplines supported.

    It just seems that many of the B-lines on SoMo have resulted from sessioning as the main legal lines are apparently not exciting enough. OF offers plenty to defray this, limitless sessioning.

    I am not saying that it is better than either SoMo or the Pit, just a viable alternate riding area with plenty of potential and no user conflict.

    Also, there has been some stunt building in the past out there by some of the PHX's OG's of FR.

    I am just saying the more fun places to ride the less chance of loving the "Meccas" to death.

  117. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    HAAA,

  118. #118
    Salty Dog
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    Thanks...

    Quote Originally Posted by TrainingWheelz?
    It usually helps if you read every post before commenting. The title was a joke. It has been said countless times in this thread.
    Yep, I read the entire thread, but I don't know the personalities here and it didn't seem to be a joke, so I commented.

    I'm sorry you wasted time reading my comments. Next time you see my name just skip it.

    Tommy
    Ventana El Rey - sweet 9er magic! OR sweet Serendipity Superfly 100

  119. #119
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    Your response...

    Quote Originally Posted by Greffster
    wow someone else took the title serious! Again it was a joke... and Not sure why u are asking about trail work, and yes I have and do often.
    I hike all over the valley with my dogs and they wear packs to carry trash and glass off the mountains and into trash cans, as well as My pack. Not sure why that has anything to do with what happened but ok....
    Thanks for your response. I am not aware of your cyber personality so I didn't take this as a joke, especially with some of the very strong words you used in your original post.

    I appreciate that you do trail work and hope to one day do some with you.

    Tommy
    Ventana El Rey - sweet 9er magic! OR sweet Serendipity Superfly 100

  120. #120
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog
    Thanks for your response. I am not aware of your cyber personality so I didn't take this as a joke, especially with some of the very strong words you used in your original post.

    I appreciate that you do trail work and hope to one day do some with you.

    Tommy

    I don't think it was originally intended as a joke - especially with the pictures of the damage. It is the typical low-brow mentality of the group.

  121. #121
    dirt visionary
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    It is the typical low-brow mentality of the group.

    You don't wanna go there!
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    You don't wanna go there!
    I am not the one posting pics of "hardly off-trail" riding.

  123. #123
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    Saturday 1/17
    Goat Camp Loop
    FIP - 10am
    Of course all are welcome...the weather should be perfect!
    DDKS

  124. #124
    I'm Lazy, So I Shuttle
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    wow

    yeti,
    As clock said dont go there. there is no attitude of "this group" maybe u should keep comments like that to yourself. I represent no one but myself in this post and the attack on others in unneeded. As I have made no statement in this post towards ur group of riders bashing us all the time, and would not do so, I would gladley lend a hand to anyone that needs it as would anyone I ride with.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  125. #125
    dirt visionary
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    Nor or the majority of riders in this thread. So someone post a pic off trail riding and the whole group is labled with some stupid low brow comment dirrected towards everyone..


    It would be like me saying you people with dumb comment attached(trail-less riding folk)becuase your generalization.

    To top it off none of this really concerns you or the paths you ride so I doubt anyone wants your 2 cents
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    I don't think it was originally intended as a joke - especially with the pictures of the damage. It is the typical low-brow mentality of the group.
    What damage are you seeing? Pretty hard to damage some rock.

    Your response is once again typical of your "F'ing Downhillers" mentality (Yes, we all heard your little comments at Tour De Fat in Tempe). Your responses have become so typical they have lost any semblance to entertainment value and make you just look like a crass old prick yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

    Go back to your canal path ride reports and just stfu for once.

  127. #127
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    ..

    Amen to the above 2 posts.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    What damage are you seeing? Pretty hard to damage some rock.

    Your response is once again typical of your "F'ing Downhillers" mentality (Yes, we all heard your little comments at Tour De Fat in Tempe). Your responses have become so typical they have lost any semblance to entertainment value and make you just look like a crass old prick yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

    Go back to your canal path ride reports and just stfu for once.
    oh please. Tell me where there is no plant damage in those photos. Just stay on the freaking trail. What is so difficult about that?

  129. #129
    wretch
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    shoulndt we lock this s h i t e down? It aint goin no where. . . f'in noowhere. . .

    makes me really love the wednesday morning rides

  130. #130
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    oh please. Tell me where there is no plant damage in those photos. Just stay on the freaking trail. What is so difficult about that?

    Better yet, how about you show me where there is any new plant damage in those photo's. That line has been there for years. But then again, what would I know, I'm only out there 5-6 days a week.

    Sorry man, but once again, you just make yourself sound like an a$$ every time you decide to take that great big step onto that soapbox of yours. Your predictability has become nauseating.

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Better yet, how about you show me where there is any new plant damage in those photo's. That line has been there for years. But then again, what would I know, I'm only out there 5-6 days a week.

    Sorry man, but once again, you just make yourself sound like an a$$ every time you decide to take that great big step onto that soapbox of yours. Your predictability has become nauseating.
    whatever.

  132. #132
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    No dog in this fight but, this thread was all testosterone ass-kick until someone identified the Ranger as the bad guy. Then it went limp.

    Just sayin..

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    What damage are you seeing? Pretty hard to damage some rock.

    I would never speak for Yeti....but you brought this up. Please look at picture number 3 in the orig. post. draw a line on the real legal trail. then draw a line on the bonus line that unfortunatly got the kid hurt.

    ANY point that your second line is not on *solid* rock is causeing damage. by my untrained eyes, I see plenty of tire tracks on dirt. you will too.

    Once you've undertaken this exercise, go back and read Mykhell's post. and any other thread talking about what the city would like for MTBers to do for us to get a real FR area on/near SoMo.

    you will quickly relaize that taking any line that passes through dirt that is not part of the legal trail will prevent us from getting the FR area. period. (e.g. high line at the Bermuda triagle is ok by these rules.)



    And if you think I'm only attacking DH/FR set, ask me what I feel about trail users that refuse to let me yeild to them and they just ride/hike/run off trail.
    b

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash
    shoulndt we lock this s h i t e down? It aint goin no where. . . f'in noowhere. . .

    makes me really love the wednesday morning rides

    no, because people need to see the arrogance and ignorance of some riders out there.

  135. #135
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    I would never speak for Yeti....but you brought this up. Please look at picture number 3 in the orig. post. draw a line on the real legal trail. then draw a line on the bonus line that unfortunatly got the kid hurt.

    ANY point that your second line is not on *solid* rock is causeing damage. by my untrained eyes, I see plenty of tire tracks on dirt. you will too.

    Once you've undertaken this exercise, go back and read Mykhell's post. and any other thread talking about what the city would like for MTBers to do for us to get a real FR area on/near SoMo.

    you will quickly relaize that taking any line that passes through dirt that is not part of the legal trail will prevent us from getting the FR area. period. (e.g. high line at the Bermuda triagle is ok by these rules.)



    And if you think I'm only attacking DH/FR set, ask me what I feel about trail users that refuse to let me yeild to them and they just ride/hike/run off trail.

    I'm not saying that the run out to that line isn't obvious, what I was saying is that it's been there for years. If you go up there and actually look at the area you will realize that the sandy area that connects that rock area to the actual trail is a wash where water flows off that rock face downhill and connects to the trail, it was not made by bikes or hikers for that matter.

    The city has been talking about doing an area dedicated to DH/FR for a while, will it ever happen, probably not. Especially with the budget problems the city and state already have. What would be perfect is to turn the Holbert Pit into a "Skills Park" much like what Seattle did with the I-5 Colonade.

    http://evergreenmtb.org/colonnade/

    But, that will never happen, it's way to forward thinking for an a$$ backwards place like Phoenix.

  136. #136
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    no, because people need to see the arrogance and ignorance of some riders out there.
    And you do such a fine job of exposing yourself constantly. Keep it up buddy!

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    no, because people need to see the arrogance and ignorance of some riders out there.
    understood. . . this thread might be a little convoluted then. Good reads none the less.

    Greff man next time you want to push that "submit new thread button". . .

  138. #138
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    Saturday 1/17
    Goat Camp Loop
    FIP - 10am
    Of course all are welcome...the weather should be perfect!
    DDKS

  139. #139
    wretch
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix

    But, that will never happen, it's way to forward thinking for an a$$ backwards place like Phoenix.

    Amen!

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    I'm not saying that the run out to that line isn't obvious, what I was saying is that it's been there for years.

    I guess that is the type of thinking that I don't care for. I have ridden on South Mountain for over 20 years. I see a lot of 'off trail' stuff that is not system. I see a lot of developing damage similar to what is seen in that photo. Just because it is there does not mean it belongs.

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    I'm not saying that the run out to that line isn't obvious, what I was saying is that it's been there for years. If you go up there and actually look at the area you will realize that the sandy area that connects that rock area to the actual trail is a wash where water flows off that rock face downhill and connects to the trail, it was not made by bikes or hikers for that matter.

    The city has been talking about doing an area dedicated to DH/FR for a while, will it ever happen, probably not. Especially with the budget problems the city and state already have. What would be perfect is to turn the Holbert Pit into a "Skills Park" much like what Seattle did with the I-5 Colonade.

    http://evergreenmtb.org/colonnade/

    But, that will never happen, it's way to forward thinking for an a$$ backwards place like Phoenix.

    yes it's been there for years, but again where is the grandfather clause in what the city asked us to do? they were clear, extra lines that go on dirt need to go.

    it maybe sandy, but the pictures posted clearly show that gras would grow there, if they weren't getting trampled.

    As to using no city funds as an excuse to keep propigating bad behaivor because they will "never build it" IS the whole reason why it won't happen.

    Making the changes they ask, which would give us permission to build, then WE find the funding adn do the work. the city pays nothing.
    b

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    And you do such a fine job of exposing yourself constantly. Keep it up buddy!

    It seems like you have a problem with me. What exactly is it and why do you take it so personally? What is it with you?

  143. #143
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    I guess that is the type of thinking that I don't care for. I have ridden on South Mountain for over 20 years. I see a lot of 'off trail' stuff that is not system. I see a lot of developing damage similar to what is seen in that photo. Just because it is there does not mean it belongs.
    Maybe instead of worrying about a 10 foot section of sand that gets used by maybe a half dozen people you should worry about the actual trails which constantly get sanitized and destroyed by over usage, kind of like the 32nd St trail.

    Did you know that was there? I bet most people who have been "riding SoMo for 20 years" didn't but now that it's obviously there, it sure does get A LOT of use and in just 6 months has shown signs of being unsustainable without further modification.

    Now can you tell me if its a illegal trail or not?

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Maybe instead of worrying about a 10 foot section of sand that gets used by maybe a half dozen people you should worry about the actual trails which constantly get sanitized and destroyed by over usage, kind of like the 32nd St trail.

    Did you know that was there? I bet most people who have been "riding SoMo for 20 years" didn't but now that it's obviously there, it sure does get A LOT of use and in just 6 months has shown signs of being unsustainable without further modification.

    Now can you tell me if its a illegal trail or not?

    As you know, any trail that is not a system trail is illegal. I can see that further discussion on this topic will reach a dead end with you. Go ahead, ride anything you like.

  145. #145
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    this thread needs...

    Quote Originally Posted by azjeff
    No dog in this fight but, this thread was all testosterone ass-kick until someone identified the Ranger as the bad guy. Then it went limp.

    Just sayin..

    AND

    Honestly... ahh I give up

  146. #146
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    As you know, any trail that is not a system trail is illegal. I can see that further discussion on this topic will reach a dead end with you. Go ahead, ride anything you like.
    Well, since you didn't answer my question, yes 32nd St. is in the system and has been a legal trail on the park books since 1951, (how do I know? Maybe I checked before riding it?) but does that mean that it can sustain the user base that is now using it on a daily basis, probably not. So what's the solution, just close it down? Or modify and fix it to be able to handle the usage that it is now getting after all these years.

    See, the point that all you "OMG your wheels left the trail types" don't understand is that trail systems are dynamic things, they are going to constantly change with the demands of different user groups as much as they are going to be changed in order to prevent erosion and sanitized to allow a wider user range. It is the natural ebb and flow of a trail system and its inhabitants, and short of paving the trails, there is nothing anyone can do to totally stop it.

    The sooner everyone realizes that the available resources don't met the current demand, then maybe we can move forward with trying to get dedicated area's built to sustain peoples needs, but with this current mentality of "prove that your user group is worthy" and then we'll see what we can do, it'll never get through all the red tape, which will in turn cause people to do their own thing and start the cycle over again.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Well, since you didn't answer my question, yes 32nd St. is in the system and has been a legal trail on the park books since 1951, but does that mean that it can sustain the user base that is now using it on a daily basis, probably not. So what's the solution, just close it down? Or modify and fix it to be able to handle the usage that it is now getting after all these years.

    See, the point that all you "OMG your wheels left the trail types" don't understand is that trail systems are dynamic things, they are going to constantly change with the demands of different user groups as much as they are going to be changed in order to prevent erosion and sanitized to allow a wider user range. It is the natural ebb and flow of a trail system and its inhabitants, and short of paving the trails, there is nothing anyone can do to totally stop it.

    The sooner everyone realizes that the available resources don't met the current demand, then maybe we can move forward with trying to get dedicated area's built to sustain peoples needs, but with this current mentality of "prove that your user group is worthy" and then we'll see what we can do, it'll never get through all the red tape, which will in turn cause people to do their own thing and start the cycle over again.
    That being said, is is so difficult to just ride on the system trail? The worst possible way to make a statement about what is needed here is to do what is being done to the preserve. Dogs do not poop where they sleep.

  148. #148
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    That being said, is is so difficult to just ride on the system trail? The worst possible way to make a statement about what is needed here is to do what is being done to the preserve. Dogs do not poop where they sleep.

    Well, with that statement shows that your assumption is that I ride off trail, which I am pretty sure any of the dozen or so people on this board that I ride with on a regular basis will tell you is never the case. So what I am guilty by association because I ride a DH bike? What about my AM bike, or my SS rigid? I don't get clumped into those user groups?

    Which brings me to your question from a few post back. You see, my "problem with you" is that you show nothing but blind bigotry and hatred towards anyone in the DH/FR scene on these forums without knowing anything about any of us. You have no idea who on here are parts of cycling advocacy groups, are parts of trail maintenance groups or who are the ones making the push to work with the Departments of Parks and Recreation and the USFS to keep our parks and preserves open for mountain bikers.

    Nope, you just lump anyone who has ever ridden a shuttle into your label of "F'ing Downhillers" which really show's your low brow mentality, not ours.

  149. #149
    JohnniO
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    on a parallel forum, in a land far far away. no one rode off trail , no fork broke and this thread never happened...

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Well, with that statement shows that your assumption is that I ride off trail, which I am pretty sure any of the dozen or so people on this board that I ride with on a regular basis will tell you is never the case. So what I am guilty by association because I ride a DH bike? What about my AM bike, or my SS rigid? I don't get clumped into those user groups?

    Which brings me to your question from a few post back. You see, my "problem with you" is that you show nothing but blind bigotry and hatred towards anyone in the DH/FR scene on these forums without knowing anything about any of us. You have no idea who on here are parts of cycling advocacy groups, are parts of trail maintenance groups or who are the ones making the push to work with the Departments of Parks and Recreation and the USFS to keep our parks and preserves open for mountain bikers.

    Nope, you just lump anyone who has ever ridden a shuttle into your label of "F'ing Downhillers" which really show's your low brow mentality, not ours.

    I do not, as some do, pretend to know anything about anyone. I never attacked you, I am merely conversing about trail riding.

  151. #151
    mtbr member
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    This is the worst thread of the year...and it's only January!! Shut it down
    DDKS

  152. #152
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    Okay guys, let's take a little break for a bit.

    I'm all for continued discussion about provocative subjects, and everyone's been playing relatively nice in this thread. But I'm watching it closely, and if we veer into personal or group attack territory I'm closing it down.

    Non-mod voice: From my perspective, both the "we're not hurting anything so stfu" and the "don't ride illegal lines because it's illegal and doing illegal things makes you lose trail access" sides are extreme and ridiculous. Does either side think they're going to "win" this argument? Really?

    p.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Okay guys, let's take a little break for a bit.

    I'm all for continued discussion about provocative subjects, and everyone's been playing relatively nice in this thread. But I'm watching it closely, and if we veer into personal or group attack territory I'm closing it down.

    Non-mod voice: From my perspective, both the "we're not hurting anything so stfu" and the "don't ride illegal lines because it's illegal and doing illegal things makes you lose trail access" sides are extreme and ridiculous. Does either side think they're going to "win" this argument? Really?

    p.

    No, but it is really quite black and white isn't it?

  154. #154
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    Okay guys, let's take a little break for a bit.

    I'm all for continued discussion about provocative subjects, and everyone's been playing relatively nice in this thread. But I'm watching it closely, and if we veer into personal or group attack territory I'm closing it down.

    Non-mod voice: From my perspective, both the "we're not hurting anything so stfu" and the "don't ride illegal lines because it's illegal and doing illegal things makes you lose trail access" sides are extreme and ridiculous. Does either side think they're going to "win" this argument? Really?

    p.
    And for my DH/FR Mod voice: For the peeps in the DH/FR scene here, just ride your own ride. I know most of you are on the right side of the debate and don't ride off trail, but lets not go putting it out for everyone to debate when someone does.

    Paul, I vote to shut it down, this thread had disaster written on it from the get go.

  155. #155
    JohnniO
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    And for my DH/FR Mod voice: For the peeps in the DH/FR scene here, just ride your own ride. I know most of you are on the right side of the debate and don't ride off trail, but lets not go putting it out for everyone to debate when someone does.

    Paul, I vote to shut it down, this thread had disaster written on it from the get go.
    uh oh , conflict of interest

  156. #156
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    And for my DH/FR Mod voice: For the peeps in the DH/FR scene here, just ride your own ride. I know most of you are on the right side of the debate and don't ride off trail, but lets not go putting it out for everyone to debate when someone does.

    Paul, I vote to shut it down, this thread had disaster written on it from the get go.

    Now, why didn't you just stand up and say that initially?

  157. #157
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnniO
    uh oh , conflict of interest

    No conflict of interest, I am just saying to not go putting up something stupid that one or two people do for everyone to start flaming and entire group over.

    Same rules apply as anywhere else on the site. Do not post illegal activities or trail use, which this could be categorized as.

  158. #158
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    i second the motion to lock this thread. it was never my intention to start the war or posts.. greffster will think before i post next time...impressive post view points non the less.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  159. #159
    sixsixtysix
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    Now, why didn't you just stand up and say that initially?

    Because sometimes I just like arguing with you yeti.

  160. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Because sometimes I just like arguing with you yeti.

    I fail to see why you constantly have to make it personal though. my feelings are hurt.

  161. #161
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    Nah, no conflict of interest. I think Brent's right, though: There's no upside to getting indignant in (this subset of the) public about something bad happening to you when you're doing something bad. And, right or wrong, it doesn't take many bad apples to make everyone else look bad. The FR crowd comes off like douches with this kind of thread. The XC crowd comes off like douches every time they rip by some trail rider or scare a fellow trail user. Everyone can be, and probably has been, a douche. So let's police "our" tribes.

    I'm using the word "bad" a lot it seems. I don't mean it in the Shaft way.

    CLOSED BY POPULAR DEMAND.

    p.

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