So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???

    Since I am the only one to publicly come up with a plan to stop rogue trail building in Sedona, what is your plan BUBBA?

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    OK Bubba, how about the Sedona mountain bike community reporting any new trails they spot being built while they are on a mountain bike ride or hike? Did any mountain bikers see the new rogue trail off Brewer being built? Was the person who spotted it a mountain biker?

    Maybe the guy who found the new trail has a talent for finding new rogue trails and would be willing to head up a group to find new trails being built.

  3. #3
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    Dude.. you really need to take your meds. You're arguing with yourself now.


    Is BUBBA your imaginary friend

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    Here in Cottonwood, just to the south of your permenant digs TD, several of my local mountainbiker friends and I have formed a sort of neighborhood trail watch group. We monitor google earth mapimagery to try and spot trail builders in the act.

    Working together as a team, we are able to keep our community under constant survailance. Any time we spot someone engaged in rogue trail building, we are ready to alert the authorities. The only downside seems to be that...google earth images for our area were taken June 13, 2011. Idealy we would be able to observe these trails in real time, but Hey...We're all doing what we can in the spirit of your original post.

    This is something you could even do while your wife is driving the motorcasa down the road, TD. And with your computer expertise and map making experience, I'll bet you could find a way to get more recent updated trail imagery as well.

    Anyway, this is what we are doing in Cottonwood. I don't see why this wouldn't work in Sedona as well. So...If I come up with any more good ideas and plans you could enact up your way, you can be sure that I will forward them to you. Because the important thing is that we get everybody involved.

    Working together we can stop this menace.

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    Keep you out of town?

  6. #6
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    Who has the best bloody mary in sedona?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Here in Cottonwood, just to the south of your permenant digs TD, several of my local mountainbiker friends and I have formed a sort of neighborhood trail watch group. We monitor google earth mapimagery to try and spot trail builders in the act.

    Working together as a team, we are able to keep our community under constant survailance. Any time we spot someone engaged in rogue trail building, we are ready to alert the authorities. The only downside seems to be that...google earth images for our area were taken June 13, 2011. Idealy we would be able to observe these trails in real time, but Hey...We're all doing what we can in the spirit of your original post.

    This is something you could even do while your wife is driving the motorcasa down the road, TD. And with your computer expertise and map making experience, I'll bet you could find a way to get more recent updated trail imagery as well.

    Anyway, this is what we are doing in Cottonwood. I don't see why this wouldn't work in Sedona as well. So...If I come up with any more good ideas and plans you could enact up your way, you can be sure that I will forward them to you. Because the important thing is that we get everybody involved.

    Working together we can stop this menace.
    Centurion:

    Great idea. It's interesting all the supposed mountain biking leaders aren't coming forward with some ideas on how to curtail unsanctioned trail building of poorly built trails. I was brainstorming at the Bend Brewfest today trying to come up some other idea on how to track down the individual who built this last trail.

    I ran across a guy who claims to be a professional trail builder tracker. I told him he can live at my house for free in exchange for tracking fees. I told him I would teach him to mountain bike when I get back to town.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Who has the best bloody mary in sedona?
    Its a toss up between Nick's, Reds, or Ken's Creekside.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
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  9. #9
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    FĹch Sedona!
    Up the butt for that madder!

    im gonna ride around city hall doing wheelies!
    "Wisdom is the Chief element of happiness, and then there is ice cream!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    what is your plan
    Cialis.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormin_Norman View Post
    im gonna ride around city hall doing wheelies!
    courthouse front staircases on a sunday were always fun,, but that was when i could only be charged as a minor...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotth72 View Post
    Keep you out of town?
    i laffed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    courthouse front staircases on a sunday were always fun,, but that was when i could only be charged as a minor...
    Yeah, those were the days.
    Tomfoolery, riding with no shoes, careless abandon.

    Now this crap?
    REALLY?

    Does he even really ride?

    This is becoming legendary nothing...

    But I digress, I'm going to go sweat my butt off for a while and ride!
    "Wisdom is the Chief element of happiness, and then there is ice cream!"

  14. #14
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    We need to get back on track and come up with some solution to this recent downhill type trail build. For years the irresponsible downhill rider types that construct steep fall line trails on loose soil that heavily erodes over a short period has given mountain biking a bad name in numerous communities.

    So since none of the mountain bike leaders have come up with any ideas I have come up with another brilliant idea. A while back Ranger 77 came to me and asked if I would donate some money ($95) to support FGR. I told him I wanted to wait to see if ra was going to get the approval of a new trail in Flag before I committed to such a large sum.

    Well while I was on another 25 mile downhill ride in Bend, OR I had a lot of time to think about what I would consider to be a WIN/WIN proposal to the Sedona Forest Service.

    I believe FGR has a current member ship of 20 or more riders. They all are committed to proving they on on board with no more unsanctioned trail building and they want to be involved in the building of a new Mt. Elden maintainable downhill trail.

    My idea is that ra or Ranger 77 meet with the Sedona FS and ask them if they can do the decommissioning of the new poorly constructed trail in Sedona. Once the decommissioning is done Ranger 77 can give Ch3 a call and have them come out and do a news piece on the decommissioning process that was done by a local downhill club who is committed to work within the system to build new maintainable downhill trails.

    After the decommissioning is done by FGR and the news piece with Ch3 is done, I will kick in the $95 Ranger 77 had asked me to contribute previously.

    TD

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    I bet Friends of the Forest would be more than happy to decomission the trail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I bet Friends of the Forest would be more than happy to decomission the trail.
    rock:

    You are probably right, but if they do they get the PR rather than FGR. I'll offer the same deal to FOF, if they go out and re-due all their poorly constructed water diverters.

    TD

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    We need to get back on track and come up with some solution to this recent downhill type trail build. For years the irresponsible downhill rider types that construct steep fall line trails on loose soil that heavily erodes over a short period has given mountain biking a bad name in numerous communities.

    So since none of the mountain bike leaders have come up with any ideas I have come up with another brilliant idea. A while back Ranger 77 came to me and asked if I would donate some money ($95) to support FGR. I told him I wanted to wait to see if ra was going to get the approval of a new trail in Flag before I committed to such a large sum.

    Well while I was on another 25 mile downhill ride in Bend, OR I had a lot of time to think about what I would consider to be a WIN/WIN proposal to the Sedona Forest Service.

    I believe FGR has a current member ship of 20 or more riders. They all are committed to proving they on on board with no more unsanctioned trail building and they want to be involved in the building of a new Mt. Elden maintainable downhill trail.

    My idea is that ra or Ranger 77 meet with the Sedona FS and ask them if they can do the decommissioning of the new poorly constructed trail in Sedona. Once the decommissioning is done Ranger 77 can give Ch3 a call and have them come out and do a news piece on the decommissioning process that was done by a local downhill club who is committed to work within the system to build new maintainable downhill trails.

    After the decommissioning is done by FGR and the news piece with Ch3 is done, I will kick in the $95 Ranger 77 had asked me to contribute previously.

    TD
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  18. #18
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    My plan is simply to not ride rogue trails and to not build rogue trails. If more people did that, then I think we should all be fine.
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincipalRider View Post
    My plan is simply to not ride rogue trails and to not build rogue trails. If more people did that, then I think we should all be fine.
    This

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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincipalRider View Post
    My plan is simply to not ride rogue trails and to not build rogue trails. If more people did that, then I think we should all be fine.
    PR:

    You obviously aren't a very skilled adventurous rider, or your full of BS. Most all the TD haters ride the rogue (user built) trails in Sedona because they are the best trails for the advanced skilled riders.

    Recently the best local bike shop showed a highly skilled touron one of Sedona's best user built rides. The guy had a world class experience and had no clue where he was at, he just knew that was one hell of a ride.

    If you aren't full of BS you are definitely to be commended Have you ever inhaled? Do you even own a hoe?

  21. #21
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    I am not perfect. I have done some things I am not proud of. However, as I have seen the consequences of my actions when I have ridden rogue trails, I have decided that it is best if I ride the trails that are sanctioned by whoever owns or officially stewards the land on which I am riding. It is called being a mature adult who looks out for the good of the many instead of just myself.

    Despite all of the great trails you have claimed to build, you still do not have license to do so. No matter how you cut it, what you do goes against the laws that we as a society have put in place.
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrincipalRider View Post
    I am not perfect. I have done some things I am not proud of. However, as I have seen the consequences of my actions when I have ridden rogue trails, ..
    Could you expound a little on these "consequences" you have seen as a result of riding trails not built by a duely trained and licensed, sanctioned, permited Forrest Service sponsored trail builder?
    I Where I ride there are no such trails. All our trails are either rogue or pieced together roads, fire trails, foot paths, rv tracks, and cow paths out here in the desert. And while I have seen no negative consequences as of yet...maybe I am missing something. Please educate me. What are the consequences of riding a rogue trail?


    Despite all of the great trails you have claimed to build, you still do not have license to do so.
    Trails TD has "claimed" to build?" Are you serious?

    You can cap on him all day long (I know I do), but once you infer that Traildoc has not actually buit a ton of top notch sustainable trails, even I have to speak up. Because, love him or hate him...TD has built miles and miles and miles of trails and worked to maintain them...by himself and with others.

    When you infer that he hasn't you lose all credability.

    No matter how you cut it, what you do goes against the laws that we as a society have put in place.
    TD got busted for doing a one by four foot unsanctioned trail improvement. He paid his fine. Give it a rest.

  23. #23
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    I Think We Have Got One Andy

    Quote Originally Posted by PrincipalRider View Post
    I am not perfect. I have done some things I am not proud of. However, as I have seen the consequences of my actions when I have ridden rogue trails, I have decided that it is best if I ride the trails that are sanctioned by whoever owns or officially stewards the land on which I am riding. It is called being a mature adult who looks out for the good of the many instead of just myself.

    Despite all of the great trails you have claimed to build, you still do not have license to do so. No matter how you cut it, what you do goes against the laws that we as a society have put in place.
    PR:

    Since Centurion told you what he thinks the story of TD is, you still haven't said whether you inhaled or not. What exactly is a mature adult? If not riding user built trails is part of the definition, I think you might be one of the only mature adults signed in on the Arizona forum.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I bet Friends of the Forest would be more than happy to decomission the trail.
    My bet is that they already have. It's amazing how much people can get done simply by following the protocols that the Red Rock Ranger District has set in place. It seems pretty simple to me- don't do any unauthorized trail work. ...Or you could skip getting authorization and just do it and wind up sacrificing one of your mortgage payments to the feds and have a 6 month "vacation" because you can't ride anywhere within a 5 hour drive of home. It isn't rocket science.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    We need to get back on track and come up with some solution to this recent downhill type trail build. For years the irresponsible downhill rider types that construct steep fall line trails on loose soil that heavily erodes over a short period has given mountain biking a bad name in numerous communities.

    So since none of the mountain bike leaders have come up with any ideas I have come up with another brilliant idea. A while back Ranger 77 came to me and asked if I would donate some money ($95) to support FGR. I told him I wanted to wait to see if ra was going to get the approval of a new trail in Flag before I committed to such a large sum.

    Well while I was on another 25 mile downhill ride in Bend, OR I had a lot of time to think about what I would consider to be a WIN/WIN proposal to the Sedona Forest Service.

    I believe FGR has a current member ship of 20 or more riders. They all are committed to proving they on on board with no more unsanctioned trail building and they want to be involved in the building of a new Mt. Elden maintainable downhill trail.

    My idea is that ra or Ranger 77 meet with the Sedona FS and ask them if they can do the decommissioning of the new poorly constructed trail in Sedona. Once the decommissioning is done Ranger 77 can give Ch3 a call and have them come out and do a news piece on the decommissioning process that was done by a local downhill club who is committed to work within the system to build new maintainable downhill trails.

    After the decommissioning is done by FGR and the news piece with Ch3 is done, I will kick in the $95 Ranger 77 had asked me to contribute previously.

    TD
    Flagstaff Gravity Riders promotes nothing but positive energy towards the cause. That is all.

  26. #26
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    "professional trail builder tracker"

    Could be a new reality show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Flagstaff Gravity Riders promotes nothing but positive energy towards the cause. That is all.
    ra:

    I was hoping for something more specific. Your statement was kinda like the stuff we are getting from our politicians these days. I want you to know I really appreciate what you are trying to do and I hope your dreams come true. Someday I hope you can say I told you so this is the way to go. If I am still alive then I will throw a party for you. What is you favorite adult beverage?
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  28. #28
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    fify
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    Quote Originally Posted by woahey View Post
    My bet is that they already have. It's amazing how much people can get done simply by following the protocols that the Red Rock Ranger District has set in place. It seems pretty simple to me- don't do any unauthorized trail work. ...Or you could skip getting authorization and just do it and wind up sacrificing one of your mortgage payments to the feds and have a 6 month "vacation" because you can't ride anywhere within a 5 hour drive of home. It isn't rocket science.
    Woahey:

    There you go again. Do you want to bet that the FOF has done the restoration of that project, and I will bet they haven't? I will pay your membership to the Sedona Mountain Bike Club if they have and if they haven't you pay mine. Either way it goes to a good cause, right? Are we on?

    You say it is amazing what people can get done when following the protocols. I assume you are not including yourself in that statement, right? I didn't know Northern AZ took five hours to cross, how fast are you driving or are you talking about riding a bike?

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    fify
    Ranger are you a college graduate yet? If not maybe you could do a research project on how to stop unsanctioned trail projects in the eastern part of Sedona. I understand there are some trails over there that the FS might not be happy about riders riding even though there is nothing wrong with riding off trail.

    Let's get in front of these potential problem areas before they become a problem. Your in a leadership position now and we need your help in stamping out anything that could be construed as a future problem.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Ranger are you a college graduate yet? If not maybe you could do a research project on how to stop unsanctioned trail projects in the eastern part of Sedona. I understand there are some trails over there that the FS might not be happy about riders riding even though there is nothing wrong with riding off trail.

    Let's get in front of these potential problem areas before they become a problem. Your in a leadership position now and we need your help in stamping out anything that could be construed as a future problem.
    I've been sucked into your trolling too many times. I think you need to come to terms with the fact that you have been kicked out of the forest and you lost any influence you had around here. I don't speak for FBR, but the people that are doing the work in FBR are better riders and trail builders than you and they don't need your bad advice. I feel bad for you. I would feel angry and want to lash out at people on the internet If my poor decisions led to me being kicked out of forest too. I hope things improve for you when you are allowed to return. I still think you are a better person in real life than the guy you play on the internet. I need to spend more time getting people excited to ride bikes and less time playing internet thug.

    Good luck John.
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    I've been sucked into your trolling too many times. I think you need to come to terms with the fact that you have been kicked out of the forest and you lost any influence you had around here. I don't speak for FBR, but the people that are doing the work in FBR are better riders and trail builders than you and they don't need your bad advice. I feel bad for you. I would feel angry and want to lash out at people on the internet If my poor decisions led to me being kicked out of forest too. I hope things improve for you when you are allowed to return. I still think you are a better person in real life than the guy you play on the internet. I need to spend more time getting people excited to ride bikes and less time playing internet thug.

    Good luck John.
    OK I will take the bait which trails have you or ra personally built that is better than the Aerie trail in Sedona or the Renegade trial in the Whistler Bike Park? If you don't answer the question then some us might think you are being kind of hypocritical.

    Being a better builder is somewhat subjective, but when thousands of people ride a trail each year that at least means the trail is popular among the masses which is where I choose to do a lot of my work.

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    You don't say!?
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  34. #34
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    Whats the difference between a 'Rogue' trail and a 'User Built' trail ?


    Do you realize you are now trying to stop people from doing what you have been doing all along? You ever consider politics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Whats the difference between a 'Rogue' trail and a 'User Built' trail ?


    Do you realize you are now trying to stop people from doing what you have been doing all along? You ever consider politics?
    P:

    What I am trying to do is market mountain biking to the advanced masses who want to ride a bunch of really great trails (FS system, user built, adopted, social, scenic, techie, etc) in Sedona. I told the FS years ago my goal was to make Sedona a great place to mountain bike and I wanted to work with them to make that happen.

    I have kept my end of the bargain. Now it's time for guys like Ranger 77 and ra to get all those maintainable downhill trails built to show us how their dream works. They have thrown all their chips on the crap table and the wheel is spinning. I hope their plan works before their hair turns gray like mine
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I have kept my end of the bargain
    That's the problem, there was no bargain. You asked for forgiveness and not permission, and you didn't get it. Now your butt hurt that they wont let you play in the woods anymore and you keep trying to muck up the trail projects in forests you haven't been banned from, YET.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whoopwhoop View Post
    That's the problem, there was no bargain. You asked for forgiveness and not permission, and you didn't get it. Now your butt hurt that they wont let you play in the woods anymore and you keep trying to muck up the trail projects in forests you haven't been banned from, YET.
    Whoop:

    If you say so, it must be true. It's hard to argue with a person with your insight about these things. Have you ridden in Moab lately, I understand there are a bunch of new user built trails there that has stimulated a lot of interest in people who had gotten tired of going there?

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    P:

    I have kept my end of the bargain. Now it's time for guys like Ranger 77 and ra to get all those maintainable downhill trails built to show us how their dream works. They have thrown all their chips on the crap table and the wheel is spinning. I hope their plan works before their hair turns gray like mine
    Who throws all their chips on the craps table? It seems like ra and ranger take advantage of the max odds on the pass line and come bets, whereas TD bets on the hardways / big 6/8. Learn your terms.

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    This has gone beyond pathetic caricature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Whoop:
    Have you ridden in Moab lately, I understand there are a bunch of new user built trails there that has stimulated a lot of interest in people who had gotten tired of going there?
    GadsZooks!!! Moab too? First Sedona, and now Moab! The Mecca of mountain bikers far and wide? Say it ain't so, TD.

    Looks like we had ALL better come up with a plan. I mean...Cottonwood could be next!

    What a Country!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Whoop:

    If you say so, it must be true. It's hard to argue with a person with your insight about these things. Have you ridden in Moab lately, I understand there are a bunch of new user built trails there that has stimulated a lot of interest in people who had gotten tired of going there?
    I didn't say anyone is tired of Sedona, they're tired of listening to you talk to yourself. You=nutbar.

  42. #42
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    lol thanks for the chuckles after a long day at work and my daughter's both getting into trouble at school I needed it.


    BTW sixshooter is prime only 2 big trees down with primo temps thanks to the rains!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpvet73 View Post
    Who throws all their chips on the craps table? It seems like ra and ranger take advantage of the max odds on the pass line and come bets, whereas TD bets on the hardways / big 6/8. Learn your terms.
    tp:

    Your right I wasn't much of a gambler, I guess that should have been poker.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoopwhoop View Post
    I didn't say anyone is tired of Sedona, they're tired of listening to you talk to yourself. You=nutbar.

    Amen brother! Sedona is probably a great place to ride but TD makes it so annoying that I'd never want to ride there .

    It use to be the crystal metaphysical freaks that kept me away. not any more.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Amen brother! Sedona is probably a great place to ride but TD makes it so annoying that I'd never want to ride there .

    It use to be the crystal metaphysical freaks that kept me away. not any more.
    That's why you haven't ridden sedona? Seriously? Just get off the internet for a while then...for the love of god. There are two kinds of people, people who KNOW when TD is "taking them for a ride", and those that do not. You buy in hook line and sinker each time with posts (and attitudes) like this.

    Just go ride there and enjoy it. It's not that hard. Don't let E-friends and E-acquaintances run your life. You don't need any approval to ride there.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Don't let E-friends and E-acquaintances run your life.
    Words to live by.
    MTBR Posting Guidelines
    calories>electrons

  47. #47
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    Deal... I'll ride the sedrama trails as soon as I can.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    PR:

    You obviously aren't a very skilled adventurous rider, or your full of BS. Most all the TD haters ride the rogue (user built) trails in Sedona because they are the best trails for the advanced skilled riders.

    Recently the best local bike shop showed a highly skilled touron one of Sedona's best user built rides. The guy had a world class experience and had no clue where he was at, he just knew that was one hell of a ride.

    If you aren't full of BS you are definitely to be commended Have you ever inhaled? Do you even own a hoe?
    Traildoc, if you where to bring your dribbling to Australia you would walk into the bush n mysteriously disappear and never be seen again, let me know when your planing the holiday here i'll dig the hole under a new rogue DH trail in advance, cheers mate
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    It use to be the crystal metaphysical freaks that kept me away. not any more.
    this is the 2000s,, it's crystal meth freaks now

  50. #50
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    Originally posted by Tone's L'axman
    Traildoc, if you where to bring your dribbling to Australia you would walk into the bush n mysteriously disappear and never be seen again, let me know when your planing the holiday here i'll dig the hole under a new rogue DH trail in advance, cheers mate
    My. How uncivilized.

    Rest assured "mate." If you ever come to Sedona, Traildoc would be among the first to offer you a tour of some of the finest trails in America. And, knowing him, since you are from far away...he would probably also host a barbecue in your honor.

    TD can be a pain in the A$$ much of the time, no doubt about it. But get past the selfrighteousness, the arrogance, and the smug elitist attitude... and he's actually not a bad guy.

    So just chill out a little there mate. Take a couple of deep breaths... take your meds, and maybe go for a nice long ride. You'll feel a lot better for it.

    G' Day

  51. #51
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    TD rides with a couple friends of mine who I consider to be super nice guys, so I don't doubt he's a great guy in real life. Why, oh why, does he try to sabotage it with the endless MTBR posting? It really is bizarre to watch.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Originally posted by tony L'axman

    My. How uncivilized.

    Rest assured "mate." If you ever come to Sedona, Traildoc would be among the first to offer you a tour of some of the finest trails in America. And, knowing him, since you are from far away...he would probably also throw a barbecue in your honor.

    TD is a pain in the A$$ on our forums much of the time, no doubt about it. But if you can get past the arrogance and the smug elitist attitude...he's actually not a bad guy.

    So just chill out a little there mate. Take a couple of deep breaths...g take your meds, and maybe go for a ride. You'll feel a lot better for it.

    G' Day
    LOL, mate you obviously dont get Aussie humour, if i was any more 'chilled out' you would be feeling for a pulse.....
    And by the way isnt it time for your lithium, cheers mate..........
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

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    Oh. Aussie humor. I think I get it. Goodonya,.

    Tell you what mate. Come ride with me and my buds here in Cottonwood sometime. We'll bury your Azz under a rock out here in the desert.

    That's American humor. Funny stuff, ay mate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's L'axeman View Post
    Traildoc, if you where to bring your dribbling to Australia you would walk into the bush n mysteriously disappear and never be seen again, let me know when your planing the holiday here i'll dig the hole under a new rogue DH trail in advance, cheers mate
    Tone:

    How is it that so many mates are viewing the AZ forum? If you plan on doing some riding in Sedona let me know. I will give you a FREE tour and FREE Shuttles. My friends Craig and Kim from down under visit at least once a year. Craig owns a company that designs vertical packaging machines and apparently the US is a hot market for vertical packaging.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velokid1 View Post
    TD rides with a couple friends of mine who I consider to be super nice guys, so I don't doubt he's a great guy in real life. Why, oh why, does he try to sabotage it with the endless MTBR posting? It really is bizarre to watch.
    Vk:

    If I were to stop posting on MTBR new advanced viewers to the Arizona forum would not see my offers for FREE tours, maps, lodging and food. I am giving the advanced masses an opportunity to have a great mountain biking vacation rather than a mediocre vacation.

    I just left Bend, Oregon where I had six days of great riding. While doing the Cog Wild shuttle up ride Tiddleywinks I met a guy on the shuttle who spends three weeks in Sedona each spring. He told me he picked up this great map at the OTE bike shop that showed all of the advanced trails to ride in Sedona.

    When I told him I made the map he said it was the key to his staying in Sedona for three weeks to ride. He said he went into Bike & Bean to get trail Intel from them and they pulled out the Bear Tooth map and said here you go.

    When he saw the map wasn't as comprehensive as my map he said no thanks do you have something else. They pulled out their hand drawn map and said how about this. The hand drawn map just didn't cut it for him. It didn't have any of the new trails plumber Phil recently built for the FS and was totally out of date.

    Anyway long story cut short. Gary invited my wife and I to park our motorcasa in his driveway which allowed us to stay in Bend an five extra days to have a great riding experience. That hospitality came about because of one stupid $6.95 map, that you can also get online for free.

    I have been working on a new map that I will be forwarding to Bike & Bean free of charge to try and help them provide better trail Intel to their new customers. If they don't want to use it it will also be available of free online with my other maps.

    Find a need and fill it! What a country!

    TD

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Vk:

    If I were to stop posting on MTBR new advanced viewers to the Arizona forum would not see my offers for FREE tours, maps, lodging and food. I am giving the advanced masses an opportunity to have a great mountain biking vacation rather than a mediocre vacation.
    But why do you have to be such a prick about it?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Vk:

    If I were to stop posting on MTBR new advanced viewers to the Arizona forum would not see my offers for FREE tours, maps, lodging and food.

    That hospitality came about because of one stupid $6.95 map, that you can also get online for free.
    Wait, I'm confused, is your map free, or $6.95?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Wait, I'm confused, is your map free, or $6.95?
    When you buy it at OTE it costs $6.95. A good % of the $6.95 goes for funding new trail signage in Sedona. I have been told that possibly in the near future there will be another online Sedona map service, similar to what is being used in Fruita.

    Apparently the Sedona Mountain Bike Club (SMC) has asked the Fruita mapper to come to Sedona to provide the SAME type of mapping that they have in Fruita. SMC asked me if I would contribute all my GPS trail tracks to the Fruita mapper and I declined due to all the hard work I put into the project and because I didn't believe their map would be as comprehensive.

    When I asked when the new mapping service would be available, I was told ASAP, when I asked what ASAP means, I was told SOON.

    I will have the new Bike & Bean map done by the end of the day if not sooner.

    TD

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    But why do you have to be such a prick about it?



    /\ This. Why public Hari Kari with every other post? The incessant antagonism does nothing but alienate. My two cents.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    SMC asked me if I would contribute all my GPS trail tracks to the Fruita mapper and I declined due to all the hard work I put into the project and because I didn't believe their map would be as comprehensive.
    More contradiction.. You want it to be comprehensive but you are not willing to contribute to insure that it is.... Think of the poor tourons that get stuck with a crappy map of all the user built trails Ambassador.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    When you buy it at OTE it costs $6.95. A good % of the $6.95 goes for funding new trail signage in Sedona. I have been told that possibly in the near future there will be another online Sedona map service, similar to what is being used in Fruita.

    Apparently the Sedona Mountain Bike Club (SMC) has asked the Fruita mapper to come to Sedona to provide the SAME type of mapping that they have in Fruita. SMC asked me if I would contribute all my GPS trail tracks to the Fruita mapper and I declined due to all the hard work I put into the project and because I didn't believe their map would be as comprehensive.

    When I asked when the new mapping service would be available, I was told ASAP, when I asked what ASAP means, I was told SOON.

    I will have the new Bike & Bean map done by the end of the day if not sooner.

    TD
    FYI. Maybe not comprehensive but it's available now. The Skid Map

    I thought Justin's effort was pretty good too. Maps and Information for Sedona Trails

    I'm not certain the FS really wants a "comprehensive" map until they've had a chance to adopt or decommision the remaining user-built trails. Is your map still available at OTE or just online?

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Whats the difference between a 'Rogue' trail and a 'User Built' trail ?
    To the best of my knowledge, a rogue trail is one the has been ridden into existance without the use of tools or the relocation of the natural terrain. A user built trail is built by users with tools and may or may not involve the relocation of rocks and brush cutting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    FYI. Maybe not comprehensive but it's available now. The Skid Map

    I thought Justin's effort was pretty good too. Maps and Information for Sedona Trails

    I'm not certain the FS really wants a "comprehensive" map until they've had a chance to adopt or decommision the remaining user-built trails. Is your map still available at OTE or just online?

    both


    Who makes the corrections?

    Touron and Lost Watch don't exist anymore, etc.

    This can't be the new mapping system, your just pulling my leg, right? I think this is the link to the map company the Sedona Mountain Bike Club is going to try and use for Sedona : COPMOBA - Interactive Trail Map
    Last edited by traildoc; 08-21-2012 at 10:59 PM.

  64. #64
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    Well then TD and Channel 3 are smoking crack because the trail they showed in the news piece fo sure had tools using tools to build it.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    /\ This. Why public Hari Kari with every other post? The incessant antagonism does nothing but alienate. My two cents.
    AZ:

    I don't think it alienates more than 5% of the 95% who end up coming to Sedona because they know I am providing them with a great riding experience for their hard earned working dollar.

    Name one specific thing I have ever said that is going to keep the advanced masses from riding in Sedona? I had this very same conversation with the number one Sedona FS volunteer trail builder. He just kept telling me everyone hates me, but refused to tell me why.

    He finally said it was because I have told everyone about all the great trails we have to ride rather than keeping it a secret. He and guys like Ranger 77 want to keep everything a secret. They don't want the poor guy who works his butt off paying high taxes and only takes a one week vacation a year to know where all the great trails are.

    They want him to somehow learn where the trails are by some old time method, rather than the instant information age we live in. The reason why they don't want all the cool user built trails known about is because they don't want the FS to know about them. I want the hard workers to ride the trails and make a determination whether or not they are any good. If they are good they will get adopted.

    What is the purpose of having a great trail, if only a very select few are going to get to ride it? How is the FS ever going to adopt a trail until they know it exists and is a well built trail.

    Ra and Ranger 77 have I assume several new trails on the drawing board, but so far they haven't shared their location yet. They also have other trails that they ride all the time that they don't let the masses know about. If that is the model that works for you go try and find their trails because their having a blast.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    AZ:

    I don't think it alienates more than 5% of the 95% who .
    basic user built math skillz are impressive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Oh. Aussie humor. I think I get it. Goodonya,.

    Tell you what mate. Come ride with me and my buds here in Cottonwood sometime. We'll bury your Azz under a rock out here in the desert.

    That's American humor. Funny stuff, ay mate?
    LOL, Yep, that is pretty funny humour champ, now your getting it.........
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    AZ:

    I don't think it alienates more than 5% of the 95% who end up coming to Sedona because they know I am providing them with a great riding experience for their hard earned working dollar.

    Name one specific thing I have ever said that is going to keep the advanced masses from riding in Sedona? I had this very same conversation with the number one Sedona FS volunteer trail builder. He just kept telling me everyone hates me, but refused to tell me why.

    He finally said it was because I have told everyone about all the great trails we have to ride rather than keeping it a secret. He and guys like Ranger 77 want to keep everything a secret. They don't want the poor guy who works his butt off paying high taxes and only takes a one week vacation a year to know where all the great trails are.

    They want him to somehow learn where the trails are by some old time method, rather than the instant information age we live in. The reason why they don't want all the cool user built trails known about is because they don't want the FS to know about them. I want the hard workers to ride the trails and make a determination whether or not they are any good. If they are good they will get adopted.

    What is the purpose of having a great trail, if only a very select few are going to get to ride it? How is the FS ever going to adopt a trail until they know it exists and is a well built trail.

    Ra and Ranger 77 have I assume several new trails on the drawing board, but so far they haven't shared their location yet. They also have other trails that they ride all the time that they don't let the masses know about. If that is the model that works for you go try and find their trails because their having a blast.
    I didn't bother to read this, but please explain to me in 10-30 words what benefit being a piss-ant online has?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Tone:

    How is it that so many mates are viewing the AZ forum? If you plan on doing some riding in Sedona let me know. I will give you a FREE tour and FREE Shuttles. My friends Craig and Kim from down under visit at least once a year. Craig owns a company that designs vertical packaging machines and apparently the US is a hot market for vertical packaging.
    Traildoc, you sound ok mate cheers n thanks,

    Down here mate the only way we can get a decent trail built is build it ourselves in national parks.
    The parks and govt doesnt let you have a piss in the bush let alone ride bikes in most places, and the endless counts of greenies that think every human apart from them shouldnt set foot in the bush, its the same on the water, im a fishing guide and our space to work is getting smaller, if the greenies had their way i wouldnt have a job but the big commercial boats can do as they please,
    I agree that motor bikes n 4wd really can stuff things up in the bush, but imo mountain bikes have little impact in our bush anyway..
    Good luck with your passion mate, but not to much luck, cheers
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    please explain to me in 10-30 words
    not possible...

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    AZ:

    Name one specific thing I have ever said that is going to keep the advanced masses from riding in Sedona? I had this very same conversation with the number one Sedona FS volunteer trail builder. He just kept telling me everyone hates me, but refused to tell me why.
    Calling people d$ickheads for not doing trail work is one that stands out. That post was deleted but you still posted it.
    Mayo Clinic Phx. Kidney TX 06-20-2019

  72. #72
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    wow.........
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Calling people d$ickheads for not doing trail work is one that stands out. That post was deleted but you still posted it.
    64:

    You claim I said that, and once again it is not true. I have always called people the L word when they don't help build some of the trails on those volunteer days. I call people like Ranger 77 a hypocrite for saying he and his crew are better trail builders than I am.

    You don't become a good trail builder like me and the number one FS volunteer trail builder unless you have done a bunch of trail projects like one and I did for the FS. I don't know were one got his experience, but he is definitely in the higher echelon because he tells the FS crews how to do their job.

    Unless Ranger 77 and ra did a bunch of user built trail work where would they have gotten the experience to build great trails? They could have learned good trail building practices from the IMBA manual, but that doesn't tell you how to build a great gap jump or jump off a large log jamb.

  74. #74
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    No TD hate here I feel sorry for you. You asked for one thing and I recall that comment. Best of luck to you in your adventures.
    Mayo Clinic Phx. Kidney TX 06-20-2019

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    64:

    You claim I said that, and once again it is not true. I have always called people the L word when they don't help build some of the trails on those volunteer days. I call people like Ranger 77 a hypocrite for saying he and his crew are better trail builders than I am.

    You don't become a good trail builder like me and the number one FS volunteer trail builder unless you have done a bunch of trail projects like one and I did for the FS. I don't know were one got his experience, but he is definitely in the higher echelon because he tells the FS crews how to do their job.

    Unless Ranger 77 and ra did a bunch of user built trail work where would they have gotten the experience to build great trails? They could have learned good trail building practices from the IMBA manual, but that doesn't tell you how to build a great gap jump or jump off a large log jamb.
    Wait, are they Lazy for not building/maintaing trails? Or Lazy for not building/maintaining trails you feel appropriate for 75% or more riders?

    Your act is getting tired. Sorry, but it is.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Wait, are they Lazy for not building/maintaing trails? Or Lazy for not building/maintaining trails you feel appropriate for 75% or more riders?

    Your act is getting tired. Sorry, but it is.
    OK CO here it is : https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...NTM0MjBk&pli=1

    Have you tried that other map thing out that rockman posted? How do you plan a ride with that thing?

    Did you fail the ignore class? I think Phillbo and 64 are teaching it, but they still haven't gotten the lesson plan straight yet.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-bike-bean-8-21-12a.jpg  


  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    OK CO here it is : https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...NTM0MjBk&pli=1

    Have you tried that other map thing out that rockman posted? How do you plan a ride with that thing?

    Did you fail the ignore class? I think Phillbo and 64 are teaching it, but they still haven't gotten the lesson plan straight yet.
    Why would I ignore you? Where else would I get my daily entertainment? Tell you what, I'll put you on Ignore if you answer just one of my questions. Just one.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Why would I ignore you? Where else would I get my daily entertainment? Tell you what, I'll put you on Ignore if you answer just one of my questions. Just one.
    OK Shoot

    I checked to see if you are still on the forum, but since you left I am going to bed, so we will work on this tomorrow
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-names.jpg  

    Last edited by traildoc; 08-21-2012 at 11:31 PM.

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    this is funny ish. Somehow all of his stuff turns into a slow-motion train-wreck and yet for some reason he keeps doing it. Maybe someday he will recognize that it isn't everyone around him that is wrong but I am not holding my breath.
    and the lurker returns to the dark corner:nono:

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Did you fail the ignore class? I think Phillbo and 64 are teaching it, but they still haven't gotten the lesson plan straight yet.
    No need to place you on ignore. This is America and you have the right to your nonsensical posts. Will it win over the masses as you claim? That is debatable. Sad to think what is going to happen to you the next time you are caught building an illegal trail in Sedona. Six month restriction of Forrest use and $1000.00 fine was a warning. As for being played by the great Traildoc. Maybe, but I think you have lost more respect by your postings than you have gained.
    Mayo Clinic Phx. Kidney TX 06-20-2019

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Seriously? Just get off the internet for a while then...for the love of god
    Good advice, 15,000+ post dude.

    Man, I just come over to the AZ forum for laughs anymore, it's not good for much more.
    Thanks for the chuckles, I just lost my 4th friend this year to a tragic death and I really needed that.

    There's so much funner things to do then yell at a screen, you guys.

    Enjoy your times of tranquility, my friends as no one get out alive.

    - Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.
    steve garro el jefe/el solo. coconino cycles www.coconinocycles.com www.coconinocycles.blogspot.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    No need to place you on ignore. This is America and you have the right to your nonsensical posts. Will it win over the masses as you claim? , it That is debatable. Sad to think what is going to happen to you the next time you are caught building an illegal trail in Sedona. Six month restriction of Forrest use and $1000.00 fine was a warning. As for being played by the great Traildoc. Maybe, but I think you have lost more respect by your postings than you have gained.
    64:

    I am not trying to win over the masses, I am just trying to give them a great riding experience in Sedona. What part of that don't you get? Someone asks me for help in their visit to Sedona and I give them the tools to have a wonderful experience, it is that simple.

    Guys like the number one FS volunteer trail builder deserve the credit for all the recent trail work and I deserve some credit for the free guiding, maps, food, shuttles and lodging.

    Because I advertise my desire to create a good user experience, you feel I don't deserve any respect. I don't care about the respect, I just want people to have a great time. The reason why I am arrogant is to drive you crazy trying to make me look bad.

    Riders come to me for Intel all the time and leave Sedona with a big smile on their face. Right now while I type this post I am parked in Boise, Idaho in front of a guys house in my motorcasa. I met Mitch five years ago in Sedona at the Mt. Bike Heaven bike shop. He was looking for fun technical riding in Sedona, well the rest is history, we have been friends for the last five years and now he is returning the favor.

    Hopefully you can accept the fact that I have helped others have a great riding experience and most like to help me in return. Having initiative is not a bad thing, and no the government didn't help me to learn to work hard at something that allowed me to live the American dream, Bill the donut maker did.

    Now spend some more time teaching your kids to work hard and develop some job skills, so they won't choose to live with you until their forty. That is your responsibility so don't blame it on GW if they become screw-ups.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    64:

    I am not trying to win over the masses, I am just trying to give them a great riding experience in Sedona. What part of that don't you get? Someone asks me for help in their visit to Sedona and I give them the tools to have a wonderful experience, it is that simple.

    Guys like the number one FS volunteer trail builder deserve the credit for all the recent trail work and I deserve some credit for the free guiding, maps, food, shuttles and lodging.

    Because I advertise my desire to create a good user experience, you feel I don't deserve any respect. I don't care about the respect, I just want people to have a great time. The reason why I am arrogant is to drive you crazy trying to make me look bad.

    Riders come to me for Intel all the time and leave Sedona with a big smile on their face. Right now while I type this post I am parked in Boise, Idaho in front of a guys house in my motorcasa. I met Mitch five years ago in Sedona at the Mt. Bike Heaven bike shop. He was looking for fun technical riding in Sedona, well the rest is history, we have been friends for the last five years and now he is returning the favor.

    Hopefully you can accept the fact that I have helped others have a great riding experience and most like to help me in return. Having initiative is not a bad thing, and no the government didn't help me to learn to work hard at something that allowed me to live the American dream, Bill the donut maker did.

    Now spend some more time teaching your kids to work hard and develop some job skills, so they won't choose to live with you until their forty. That is your responsibility so don't blame it on GW if they become screw-ups.
    Please answer my question, and I will put you on Ignore forever: Why do you have to be such an ahole online to get your point across? It's a very simple question (but I'm 1000% you will make it more complicated).

    And one side question you're free to answer if you like: what happens if you lose you, what I'm assuming, numbering one messaging vehicle: MTBR?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    64:
    The reason why I am arrogant is to drive you crazy trying to make me look bad.
    Your internet persona is all your own doing. Don't think many put much thought or effort into shaping it for you.
    Mayo Clinic Phx. Kidney TX 06-20-2019

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Your internet persona is all your own doing. Don't think many put much thought or effort into shaping it for you.
    Obviously it is my own doing. You and several other MTBR posters seem to be obsessed with making me look like a bad person. You can't accept that I am a good person, so you keep trying to make me look bad. There is something about your thought process that can't accept that what I am doing for the mountain biking community is ultimately good.

    It is true I didn't like the way the FS built the stairs on the Adobe Jack trailhead to accommodate hikers and not mountain bikers. Hopefully they will allow some kind of improvement on that section in the near future.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Obviously it is my own doing. You and several other MTBR posters seem to be obsessed with making me look like a bad person. You can't accept that I am a good person, so you keep trying to make me look bad. There is something about your thought process that can't accept that what I am doing for the mountain biking community is ultimately good.
    You are delusional. Seek help before it is to late.
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  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    You are delusional. Seek help before it is to late.
    It's called narcissism
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    AZ:
    Name one specific thing I have ever said that is going to keep the advanced masses from riding in Sedona?



    The continued use of "I". You are not the face of mountain biking, in Sedona or anywhere else in the country. You continue to alienate and be exclusive, always "I" not we. "We" are tiring of this spiel, you are not the only Trail Builder. There are many whom do it for the love of the sport, not expecting anything in return and you are giving them a bad name. You on the other hand do it for the spot light me thinks, for the pat on the back. Thanks, that's all you get from me. Mountain biking is inclusive.You're continued "challenges". I have one for you, I challenge you to stop posting you're inflamatory rhetoric and public e masturbation. Would you like me to go on? I can go on forever about narrcissistic behavior for instance. How about latent hostility and illusions of importance? How about paranoia? They may apply to you. Enough of you're trolling and flame baiting, please stop for the good of the community.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ.MTNS View Post
    There are many whom do it for the love of the sport, not expecting anything in return and you are giving them a bad name. You on the other hand do it for the spot light me thinks, for the pat on the back. Thanks, that's all you get from me.
    DITTO
    Just do your thing and just smile when someone appreciates it.
    You DON"T need that pat on the back.
    If I tried posting all the things I've done for the greater good, I'd be on the net 24/7 for 10 years.
    Get over it and move on.
    Last edited by owtdorz; 08-22-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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  90. #90
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    Narcissistic Personality Disorder

    A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

    1. Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
    2. Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
    3. Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
    4. Requires excessive admiration
    5. Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
    6. Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
    7. Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
    8. Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
    9. Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
    10. Often mild to moderate paranoia, that others are out to do him in.
    11. Predominant “name dropper” boasting or suggestion association with people or affiliations of importance.

  91. #91
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    I'd say 9 out of 11 fit TD.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Please answer my question, and I will put you on Ignore forever: Why do you have to be such an ahole online to get your point across? It's a very simple question (but I'm 1000% you will make it more complicated).

    And one side question you're free to answer if you like: what happens if you lose you, what I'm assuming, numbering one messaging vehicle: MTBR?
    I would love to answer your question, but you can't give me one example of what you are talking about.

    I have built mountain biking trails to give mountain bikers who like my style of riding a new trail to ride. I have done trail improvements to allow people of my riding ability to ride the trail that couldn't be ridden previously. I have made maps for people to be able to navigate better in Sedona.

    Do you think I am an a hole because I don't want our governor to give transportation funds to IMBA to build new mountain biking trails? I would rather the funds go to higher priorities like fixing potholes in a badly worn out highway.

    Do you think I am an a hole because I did a trail fix that needed to be done w/o jumping through all the hoops to get the required paperwork to do it w/o being cited?

    Do you think I am an a hole because I don't believe drug addicts that have never worked should have children?

    Please give me some examples of where I am being an a hole?

  93. #93
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    and the plot thickens.......


    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post

    Please give me some examples of where I am being an a hole?
    See post #93.... You don't get it do you.


    Someone ask you a question and you go off on a number two FS volunteer , user built this , user built that ... 30%'er this 70%er that dissertation...

    Try focusing on the question and not your preamble.

  95. #95
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    Yo TD... What color is the sky?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Yo TD... What color is the sky?
    Here in Boise, it's somewhat gray due to the wildfires.

    Now answer a question for me, how much volunteer time have you given to the mountain bike community in the last three years?

    Are you unhappy because I have helped build new trails for the mountain biking community and have communicated those activities to the AZ forum? You want me to keep the volunteer activities a secret, right? Why is that my friend?

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    Answers with questions, a diversionary tactic used to continue an argument when there is no solid footing to support yourself any longer. Trolling 101.

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Why is that my friend?
    I took two minutes and googled the definition of humble, and then "benefits of being humble". Enjoy.

    hum·ble   [huhm-buhl] Show IPA adjective, hum·bler, hum·blest, verb, hum·bled, hum·bling.
    adjective
    1. not proud or arrogant; modest: to be humble although successful.


    Being humble is not only effective to be a leader, but it is also useful for developing your overall character. Being humble will help you to focus on others instead of yourself which is a very noble character trait and will be liked by all who experience or see it. When people see how you respond to others and don’t attempt to overshadow them or dominate them in any way, you will make yourself far more approachable. This can lead to many great things but will likely have the biggest positive impact on how easily or quickly you build relationships. People generally don’t develop bad first impressions of someone who is humble and its generally easier for a humble person to earn the respect of others.
    Think about your first impressions of someone who is showy, pompous, or arrogant when you meet them. Is it easier of harder for that person to earn your respect than a humble person? What do you think of someone when they take credit or make themselves look good at the expense of others? Its not really a valuable character trait to have.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
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  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Now answer a question for me, how much volunteer time have you given to the mountain bike community in the last three years?You want me to keep the volunteer activities a secret, right
    None.. Yes... because you are annoying as hell with your long winded 30% of 70% or the number two FS volunteer ****ing crapola... I gets old. Can't you get that hint?

    I'm starting to think there was not an issue with your 4x1 foot user built ambassador ego trail improvement and that the number two FS volunteer told 70% of his number one FS trail building volunteers to kick you out of their forest just so they would not have to listen to your 30% user built bull sh!t.

    YMMV.

  100. #100
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    Now thats world class!
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  101. #101
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    I'm pleased by Trail Dock's need to live up to his own hype. More trail is more trail after all, despite it not being very difficult to ride.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by woahey View Post
    I took two minutes and googled the definition of humble, and then "benefits of being humble". Enjoy.

    hum·ble   [huhm-buhl] Show IPA adjective, hum·bler, hum·blest, verb, hum·bled, hum·bling.
    adjective
    1. not proud or arrogant; modest: to be humble although successful.


    Being humble is not only effective to be a leader, but it is also useful for developing your overall character. Being humble will help you to focus on others instead of yourself which is a very noble character trait and will be liked by all who experience or see it. When people see how you respond to others and don’t attempt to overshadow them or dominate them in any way, you will make yourself far more approachable. This can lead to many great things but will likely have the biggest positive impact on how easily or quickly you build relationships. People generally don’t develop bad first impressions of someone who is humble and its generally easier for a humble person to earn the respect of others.
    Think about your first impressions of someone who is showy, pompous, or arrogant when you meet them. Is it easier of harder for that person to earn your respect than a humble person? What do you think of someone when they take credit or make themselves look good at the expense of others? Its not really a valuable character trait to have.
    Woahey:

    What is your impression of a humble person who has no initiative? I am not trying to win a PR award we're trying to give people a great riding experience.

    We need to get back on topic, have you been able to help Ranger O'Neil find out who built that terrible downhill trail? Do you have any idea who did it? You are well connected in the mountain bike community, so I figured you would know.

    I guess the bet is off.

  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    None.. Yes... because you are annoying as hell with your long winded 30% of 70% or the number two FS volunteer ****ing crapola... I gets old. Can't you get that hint?

    I'm starting to think there was not an issue with your 4x1 foot user built ambassador ego trail improvement and that the number two FS volunteer told 70% of his number one FS trail building volunteers to kick you out of their forest just so they would not have to listen to your 30% user built bull sh!t.

    YMMV.
    P:

    Have you ever thought maybe you suffer from a guilt complex about not doing any volunteer work?

  104. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadie scum View Post
    Answers with questions, a diversionary tactic used to continue an argument when there is no solid footing to support yourself any longer. Trolling 101.
    roadie:

    You seem to be a well educated poster. Can you explain why guys like CO and Phillbo can't get themselves to use the ignore button?

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Woahey:

    What is your impression of a humble person who has no initiative? I am not trying to win a PR award we're trying to give people a great riding experience.

    We need to get back on topic, have you been able to help Ranger O'Neil find out who built that terrible downhill trail? Do you have any idea who did it? You are well connected in the mountain bike community, so I figured you would know.

    I guess the bet is off.
    I never said anything about not having initiative. You can have initiative without coming across as an egotistical, pathological buffoon. Well maybe not you, but other people can and maybe you can take a few tips from them.

    I have no clue who built the new "rogue" trail. I bet the person who did it was trying to be humble as to not attract attention to him/her and their trail building escapades.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by woahey View Post
    I never said anything about not having initiative. You can have initiative without coming across as an egotistical, pathological buffoon. Well maybe not you, but other people can and maybe you can take a few tips from them.

    I have no clue who built the new "rogue" trail. I bet the person who did it was trying to be humble as to not attract attention to him/her and their trail building escapades.
    Come on Woahey you can do a better personal attack then that. Your well connected, take some initiative and get out there and find out who did that project. Oh that's right you like to ride those user built trails, so that might be a conflict in interest.

    Hopefully those user built trails will be adopted, so there won't be a problem with where you do the majority of your rides.

    Give me your honest opinion of what you think of my new Bike & Bean map? Do you think it would help new riders coming into the shop. If not what changes would you like to see?

    While waiting for your answer I came up with an additional map that you could use to show riders how to get to those special trails you love to ride. It will be available at this link for free: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&p...EyOWU1ODZhZDQz
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-bike-bean-8-21-12a.jpg  

    So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-bike-bean-8-21-12ba.jpg  

    Last edited by traildoc; 08-22-2012 at 10:33 PM.

  107. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    P:

    Have you ever thought maybe you suffer from a guilt complex about not doing any volunteer work?
    nope.

  108. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Do you think I am an a hole...?

    Do you think I am an a hole...?

    Do you think I am an a hole...?
    I trimmed this a bit to keep it between 10 and 50 words. Let me answer with a resounding "yes." Sorry, I didn't read past these three questions.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  109. #109
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    This thread smacks of a TOTAL CONTROL FREAK...........
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    roadie:

    You seem to be a well educated poster. Can you explain why guys like CO and Phillbo can't get themselves to use the ignore button?
    It doesn't matter if they do. I have you under ignor but I think the system threw in the towel long long ago then try to keep up with all the people that have you on the ignor list.
    and the lurker returns to the dark corner:nono:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's L'axeman View Post
    This thread smacks of a TOTAL CONTROL FREAK...........
    n
    Tone:

    What do you and your mates do when you find a crummy newly built trail in your favorite riding area? Do you have any video links to some of the favorite trails you ride? What kind of international hospitality do you offer fellow riders visiting down under?

    TD

  112. #112
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    Those down under guys would simply find the builder of that rogue trail and bury him under it. I believe he told you as much in an earlier post, TD. You should be thankful you don't live there.

    As for the international hospatality. He did offer to take you out for a ride if you're ever in his neighborhood in an earlier post, TD. What more do you want? Just because he isn't into marketing plans and offering up his local bit of paradise to the 30 per cent of the 70 per cent of the masses of turons doesn't make him a bad guy. He's just not out to make a quick buck selling a map, or to feed his ego by actively seeking out praise and compliments from turons and neophites.

    Some of us can relate to that. Others can't.

    What A Country!

  113. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Those down under guys would simply find the builder of that rogue trail and bury him under it. I believe he told you as much in an earlier post, TD. You should be thankful you don't live there.

    As for the international hospatality. He did offer to take you out for a ride if you're ever in his neighborhood in an earlier post, TD. What more do you want? Just because he isn't into marketing plans and offering up his local bit of paradise to the 30 per cent of the 70 per cent of the masses of turons doesn't make him a bad guy. He's just not out to make a quick buck selling a map, or to feed his ego by actively seeking out praise and compliments from turons and neophites.

    Some of us can relate to that. Others can't.

    What A Country!
    Sounds good, how about a video? Does he provide free shuttles?

    TD

  114. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    roadie:

    You seem to be a well educated poster. Can you explain why guys like CO and Phillbo can't get themselves to use the ignore button?
    What's your obsession with me putting you on my ignore list? With Rosie O'Donald's show is off the air, where else am I going to get my daily entertainment?

    Please share with us what you have done to promote the the user experience in, um, Douglas, Arizona. I'm going to have to assume you have not helped in that area, and therefore are a lazy, good for nothing SOB.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  115. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    n
    Tone:

    What do you and your mates do when you find a crummy newly built trail in your favorite riding area? Do you have any video links to some of the favorite trails you ride? What kind of international hospitality do you offer fellow riders visiting down under?

    TD
    LOL Doc, mate i can tell your driven by great passion, but remember you get more bees with honey than s**t.....
    In the flesh you are probably a real good guy and i applaud you for doin something with the things you are passionate about, thats a gift that you have n i dont knock that for 1 second..
    Mate if somebody builds a crumby trail in the national park here i dont give a s**t, they can do as they please, we have so much bush here it makes no dif to me n im not going to stick my nose into other peoples trails, we make a few good ones and keep em quite so the rangers dont get on to them and drag massive logs over them to cut the flow..
    And centurian is right i did offer to take you into the bush n play a magic trick so that no body would ever see you again lol, but i was only joking on that..
    Im a lure fishing guide by trade i work on my own boat on Sydney harbour which im lucky enough to also live on, i take plenty of overseas visitors out to catch kingfish on fly n plastic, some as clients some as friends, i would take you out on the house if you ever came here, freeriding n MTB is just a hobby for me and i also ride a bike around sydney city..
    All i can control is what i do not what others do, i rock up to prime fishin spots in my boat n others are in them cause they have seen me in them and marked them on their gps, but i cant control that i just have to go with the flow bro.
    with all you passion you could play things a bit cooler n get a better result, you are astute n smart from what i can see if i may say so, so maybe if you played a bit cooler you would have an easier time on here, heck i like your bloody persistance n passion mate its a great quality to have, cheers from Oz......
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

  116. #116
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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-nomod.jpg  


  117. #117
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    And there it is there...+1 berzerker.

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's L'axeman View Post
    LOL Doc, mate i can tell your driven by great passion, but remember you get more bees with honey than s**t.....
    In the flesh you are probably a real good guy and i applaud you for doin something with the things you are passionate about, thats a gift that you have n i dont knock that for 1 second..
    Mate if somebody builds a crumby trail in the national park here i dont give a s**t, they can do as they please, we have so much bush here it makes no dif to me n im not going to stick my nose into other peoples trails, we make a few good ones and keep em quite so the rangers dont get on to them and drag massive logs over them to cut the flow..
    And centurian is right i did offer to take you into the bush n play a magic trick so that no body would ever see you again lol, but i was only joking on that..
    Im a lure fishing guide by trade i work on my own boat on Sydney harbour which im lucky enough to also live on, i take plenty of overseas visitors out to catch kingfish on fly n plastic, some as clients some as friends, i would take you out on the house if you ever came here, freeriding n MTB is just a hobby for me and i also ride a bike around sydney city..
    All i can control is what i do not what others do, i rock up to prime fishin spots in my boat n others are in them cause they have seen me in them and marked them on their gps, but i cant control that i just have to go with the flow bro.
    with all you passion you could play things a bit cooler n get a better result, you are astute n smart from what i can see if i may say so, so maybe if you played a bit cooler you would have an easier time on here, heck i like your bloody persistance n passion mate its a great quality to have, cheers from Oz......
    Tone:

    Thanks for the nice reply. As you probably can tell from what I am trying to do in Sedona it is great entertainment trying to promote the great riding we have there.

    As you know I have been banned from the Northern AZ forest for six months. I use to live full time in my motorhome for eight years, before moving to Sedona full time. Now I have to go back on the road and try and back lemonade out of lemons, so far I have been visiting a bunch of people who I met in Sedona, so I don't think I am going to commit suicide soon.

    Thanks for the invite, I would love to come for a visit and meet you. If you ever decide to visit Sedona, I will try and make your trip a memorable one.

    TD

  119. #119
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    In the spirit of the original post, I think I may have a solution.

    Most of us would agree that encouraging mountainbikers to snitch each other off for doing minor (and even major) trail building and improvements is a bad idea. Our community is allready fragmented as it is. We don't need more of that. As for helocoptor drones with cameras, stationary cameras and recording devices set up along trails...Wanted posters and the like...Do we really want to live in a world like that? Increased patrols are expensive and time consuming. So this is not the answer either.

    I say we should simply crack down hard on those who are and have allready been caught. Zero tolerance.. Instead of thousand dollar fines and six month forrest banishments, how about ten years in a federal prison? Now before you dismiss this idea outright, think about it for a minute. Because it should only take one or two high profile cases to get people's attention.

    I am thinking we could make this retro active. I mean...we allready have one known scoff law who got off with a light sentence just a few months ago. I am thinking that maybe his case should be re opened. (I am told he was only convicted on one of two counts. That other count could be actively prosecuted and an example made of that character).

    What do you think Traildoc? I mean...it would be relatively easy, cheap and effective, don't you think? . Very little extra FS manpower would be required. And from what I hear, that second count is a slam dunk case. I mean...why spend more money, time, and other resourses on this problem when the solution is staring us all right in the face?

    I am interested in the your thoughts on this. Do you think 10 years hard time in a Federal Prison would be enough?

  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    In the spirit of the original post, I think I may have a solution.
    Come on, do you honestly think 70% of those who have viewed this thread have any idea what the topic was. And hence what TD fails to get: number of views does not mean **** if you can't stay on topic.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Come on, do you honestly think 70% of those who have viewed this thread have any idea what the topic was. And hence what TD fails to get: number of views does not mean **** if you can't stay on topic.
    Of course not. We are all just trolling. I'll admit it. Something to pass the time until the temp goes down in Phoenix. I give it about one more month.
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    In the spirit of the original post, I think I may have a solution.

    Most of us would agree that encouraging mountainbikers to snitch each other off for doing minor (and even major) trail building and improvements is a bad idea. Our community is allready fragmented as it is. We don't need more of that. As for helocoptor drones with cameras, stationary cameras and recording devices set up along trails...Wanted posters and the like...Do we really want to live in a world like that? Increased patrols are expensive and time consuming. So this is not the answer either.

    I say we should simply crack down hard on those who are and have allready been caught. Zero tolerance.. Instead of thousand dollar fines and six month forrest banishments, how about ten years in a federal prison? Now before you dismiss this idea outright, think about it for a minute. Because it should only take one or two high profile cases to get people's attention.

    I am thinking we could make this retro active. I mean...we allready have one known scoff law who got off with a light sentence just a few months ago. I am thinking that maybe his case should be re opened. (I am told he was only convicted on one of two counts. That other count could be actively prosecuted and an example made of that character).

    What do you think Traildoc? I mean...it would be relatively easy, cheap and effective, don't you think? . Very little extra FS manpower would be required. And from what I hear, that second count is a slam dunk case. I mean...why spend more money, time, and other resourses on this problem when the solution is staring us all right in the face?

    I am interested in the your thoughts on this. Do you think 10 years hard time in a Federal Prison would be enough?
    C:

    You have got to be kidding, but obviously you aren't. What sentence are you going to give people for not eating properly? Look at what that is costing our country.

  123. #123
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    Just trying to come up with a workable solution for what you seem to believe is a very serious problem in the land of the pink rocks, TD. Because I have yet to read anything on this ponderously long (but entertaining) thread that would solve the issue of rogue trail building. Unless faced with a stern punishment like the one I suggest...people are going to build rogue trails It's like an addiction.You of all people should understand that.

    You can do this TD. This is for the 30 per cent of the 70 per cent of the masses. This is your chance to achieve that true greatness you seem to crave. In my minds eye I can allready see a 25 foot pink statue dedicated to TD in the middle of that traffic circle at the intersection of 89A where it breaks off to the VOC. And you'd receive thousands of letters and marriage proposals from an admiring throng of female (and probably some male too...but what the heck) mountainbiker turons and wannabes from all over the world.


    So come on Big Boy. YOU are the one that asked for a solution. YOU are the one that initiated this topic. Only YOU can do this. So are you ready to take one for the team? Are you ready to put it all on the line for the cause?

    Hmmmmm?
    Last edited by Centurion_; 08-23-2012 at 09:07 PM.

  124. #124
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    Since TD is a master of PR. Maybe he can lend a hand to Lance.
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  125. #125
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    Honestly TD... The smartest and wisest thing I have seen you do on this forum, is when you did not post after being busted. I don't think it would be wise to being drawing any sort of attention to yourself, let alone starting a topic about what the MTB community plans to do while they use FS land and see violations? (personally I am enjoying it too much to notice any kind of violations) You were off the forum and laying low, and members were appreciating, understanding, and respecting your situation.

    The wise man knows when not to speak, an equaly wise man knows why.

  126. #126
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  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Just trying to come up with a workable solution for what you seem to believe is a very serious problem in the land of the pink rocks, TD. Because I have yet to read anything on this ponderously long (but entertaining) thread that would solve the issue of rogue trail building. Unless faced with a stern punishment like the one I suggest...people are going to build rogue trails It's like an addiction.You of all people should understand that.

    You can do this TD. This is for the 30 per cent of the 70 per cent of the masses. This is your chance to achieve that true greatness you seem to crave. In my minds eye I can allready see a 25 foot pink statue dedicated to TD in the middle of that traffic circle at the intersection of 89A where it breaks off to the VOC. And you'd receive thousands of letters and marriage proposals from an admiring throng of female (and probably some male too...but what the heck) mountainbiker turons and wannabes from all over the world.


    So come on Big Boy. YOU are the one that asked for a solution. YOU are the one that initiated this topic. Only YOU can do this. So are you ready to take one for the team? Are you ready to put it all on the line for the cause?

    Hmmmmm?

    C:

    You as always make some great points and for that we should all be grateful. If their were to be a defense fund put together with about $100,000 I would entertain litigating the second offense. There were four of us directly involved with that FS volunteer project and twenty one non directly involved. I gave the names of the other individuals who helped me build that re-route on Munds Wagon trail to the prosecuting attorney and he maybe pursuing the case at this time, so having a defense fund would help with a future trial.

    Maybe you could start the defense fund and let me know when you get the $100,000. It would definitely be an interesting test case for volunteers working with FS employees on a FS bike shop approved work event being put in prison for ten years.

    Rather than a pink statue of me maybe there could be a Red Rock statue of the two people who have done the most for making Sedona a world class mountain biking community. Their the ones who have done all the heavy lifting, I have just communicated to the MTBR viewers what a great place Sedona is to ride.

    Part of that MTBR discussion on different posts has shown how passionate mountain bikers are about their sport, and how the idea of civility does not exist. We strip people bare when it comes to defending our position with regard to appropriate trail building and trail maintenance techniques. We want taxpayers to pay for our new trails and are too lazy to build them all ourselves with FS approved volunteer crews.

    The US has gotten soft and as a country the American Dream is diminishing for future generations. Mountain biking is a great sport for physical conditioning, enjoying the outdoors ( how am I doing clockwork) and meeting new people w/o using Facebook.

    You would think working together to build a new trail or do maintenance on an existing trail would be easy, but nowadays it is mired in bureaucracy, so it becomes very costly to build anything new and since our country is broke there are much higher priorities than trails for taxpayer funds.

    Like spending money to travel to Mars or Youranus, trail building may become something of the past. At least we have the existing ones to ride for that we should be grateful and thank those individuals who built them for us to recreate on.

    What a country it use to be!

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    What a country it use to be!
    Oh there it is, the old fart's lament! It's the same country, you're just jumping the shark.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    C:

    I gave the names of the other individuals who helped me build that re-route on Munds Wagon trail to the prosecuting attorney and he maybe pursuing the case at this time, so having a defense fund would help with a future trial.

    I smell a rat.

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by berzerker View Post
    I smell a rat.



    LOL, Doc that does not sound good at all, Rule number 1, never give up others if you have been nailed yourself, its better 1 man go down than many, Whoever the organisers are they should be the only ones getting done here not the volunteers, this is not a good look, but i will say this thread has been very entertaining to say the least...
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

  131. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's L'axeman View Post
    LOL, Doc that does not sound good at all, Rule number 1, never give up others if you have been nailed yourself, its better 1 man go down than many, Whoever the organisers are they should be the only ones getting done here not the volunteers, this is not a good look, but i will say this thread has been very entertaining to say the least...
    Tone:

    It was the only thing I could do to get my being kicked out of the forest dropped from two years to six months. I think when it goes to trial we will all get off because one of the guys worked for the FS and is more ignorant than me. Our plea will be STUPIDTY

    TD
    Last edited by traildoc; 08-25-2012 at 08:10 AM.

  132. #132
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    I haven't been on MTBR in probably a little over a year. Sitting around, bored on the computer I hopped on to see what was up since I used to come on here all the time. This was the first post I read and it is like watching a train wreck. Traildoc, you literally sound like a crazy person. Like a crazy homeless guy who lives in the woods with tinfoil on his head to prevent people from listening to his thoughts. The last time I checked this board you were posting up stuff about all these great trails you built, and now I come back and you have a post strictly dedicated to totally screwing anyone who builds trails. It makes me sick to think that anyone on here would call authorities before going over and talking with someone they felt was building an ill advised trail route. I am so baffled and utterly amazed by my last 15 minutes of reading through this. I am not advocating for rogue trail building, but I am advocating for Traildoc to start taking a deep breath along with a 5 minute pause of deep reflection before you start putting your fingers to the keyboard.

    All the respect in the world for what you have done for the community, the sport, Sedona, and Arizona as a whole but you need to take a step back and check yourself right now.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Average Joe View Post
    I haven't been on MTBR in probably a little over a year. Sitting around, bored on the computer I hopped on to see what was up since I used to come on here all the time. This was the first post I read and it is like watching a train wreck. Traildoc, you literally sound like a crazy person. Like a crazy homeless guy who lives in the woods with tinfoil on his head to prevent people from listening to his thoughts. The last time I checked this board you were posting up stuff about all these great trails you built, and now I come back and you have a post strictly dedicated to totally screwing anyone who builds trails. It makes me sick to think that anyone on here would call authorities before going over and talking with someone they felt was building an ill advised trail route. I am so baffled and utterly amazed by my last 15 minutes of reading through this. I am not advocating for rogue trail building, but I am advocating for Traildoc to start taking a deep breath along with a 5 minute pause of deep reflection before you start putting your fingers to the keyboard.

    All the respect in the world for what you have done for the community, the sport, Sedona, and Arizona as a whole but you need to take a step back and check yourself right now.
    Joe:

    The whole deal has changed in Sedona now. You have been out of the loop for a year so you need to be brought up to speed. We are now going after all rouge trail builders who build crummy trails.

    I am kinda homeless though since I have been banned from the forest for six months I left home and am out pretending I am having a great time. Thanks for getting up to speed on what going on now in Sedona.

    The riding is still great on the existing trails, but no new trail building is allowed at this point. If you need any help when I get back let me know, I am still providing free tours and shuttles. That tin foil thing was very funny are you a comedian?

  134. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Tone:

    It was the only thing I could do to get my being kicked out of the forest dropped from two years to six months. I think when it goes to trail we will all get off because one oof the guys worked for the FS and is more ignorant than me. Our plea will be STUPIDTY

    TD
    snitch ...

    He was more ignorant then you
    and the lurker returns to the dark corner:nono:

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttocs View Post
    snitch ...

    He was more ignorant then you
    t:

    I doubt the case will ever go to trial since the work we did was well done and there haven't been any archeological artifacts or historical beer cans found on the short trail segment we re-routed. I don't think there was ever an archeological study done in that area, since I have been told no Indians would be inclined to live in the area we re-routed.

  136. #136
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    i say we take off, and nuke the site from orbit... it's the only way to be sure...

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Tone:

    It was the only thing I could do to get my being kicked out of the forest dropped from two years to six months. I think when it goes to trial we will all get off because one of the guys worked for the FS and is more ignorant than me. Our plea will be STUPIDTY

    TD
    Gotta love when the self preservation kicks in and people show their true lack of integrity, honor, and loyalty. I found the TD threads mildly entertaining because of how everyone gets so worked up.. but now Im pretty disgusted.

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    t:

    I doubt the case will ever go to trial since the work we did was well done and there haven't been any archeological artifacts or historical beer cans found on the short trail segment we re-routed. I don't think there was ever an archeological study done in that area, since I have been told no Indians would be inclined to live in the area we re-routed.
    The point is you gave the names of those who helped you, not whether you think the charges will be dropped. It's obvious you don't have anyone's back, even those who were on your side in your well-intentioned, though misguided, trail building escapades. What if the charges are not dropped and all those people you gave up are banned from the forest, or worse, criminally charged. Classy move doc.

  139. #139
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    One word KARMA..........but I could think of many many more but instead I am going to think about tomorrows escape to the pines
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  140. #140
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    TD, you know what i recon, your a good dude thats very very passionate about the forest where this all happend n your so passionate that maybe you need to step out of theemotional mind frame you are in n look at it from a birds eye view, you know how some times emotion can cloud our vision sometime, it happens to all of us..
    Now that you have 6 months off maybe its time to start a fresh when you get back in there, maybe be a little less intense n driven n be a little bit more laid back and understand there are things in your control n things out of your control and others are always going to build rogue trails and thats part of life, if your a little less intense about it you would be able to use all that energy towards a new approach n new methods, remember people treat n react to you in the same manner that you treat yourself, meaning if your calm n measured forgiving and a bit more laid back they will mirror those actions back to you mate, im sure im telling you nothing you dont already know n as i said i like your passion n honesty they are great traits and the fact you offer others free tours n care about their experience means you have a good heart n are a good person in my books, just scale back the thoughts that you are responsable for everything n there are things outa your control and life will be alot easier for you, your ban will go quick n youll be back in there doing your thing workin in the place you love, cheers mate
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

  141. #141
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    And TD mate ive got something that will make you laugh,
    Go to 'general discussion' and find the blog ''you gotta see this one'' , im sure its a picture of your bike that you use for your building of 'rogue trails' in Sedona, you will enjoy the photo, cheers mate.

    p.s its on the first page only put up a day or two ago.......
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....:cool:

  142. #142
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    seems to me the forest service has a pretty good hold on how to take care of the trail builders since they found the weak link, squeezed it a bit and you now ratted everyone out. Its a good show you started here to turn it around and not look like the very person that the post is about but everyone can see through it. Seems to me kicking you out for 6 months was the solution to the question you ask in this post. Only problem - its only for 6 months....

    You went about this with the idea that its easier to ask for forgiveness then to beg for permission. Only problem now is you have forgot to ask for forgiveness, unless that is what this post is? you made the bed, sleep tight! You can sleep-talk/type all you want now but its too little too late, and all done in the wrong way.....
    and the lurker returns to the dark corner:nono:

  143. #143
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    Heck with all this Traildoc drama! I was just leaving Sprouts and witnessed a little "old" lady take a huge fall slamming her head on the pavement. We rushed over to her as her husband was picking her up. She looked dazed and confused but her husband said it was just the BP meds. He placed her in the car and that was it. Watching them drive off I wondered if she had a concussion and if she really should not have been seen by some medical staff.

    Remember the truly important things in life.
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  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Heck with all this Traildoc drama! I was just leaving Sprouts and witnessed a little "old" lady take a huge fall slamming her head on the pavement. We rushed over to her as her husband was picking her up. She looked dazed and confused but her husband said it was just the BP meds. He placed her in the car and that was it. Watching them drive off I wondered if she had a concussion and if she really should not have been seen by some medical staff.
    what if the old guy had really just drugged her, and you unknowingly assisted in another senior abduction?

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    what if the old guy had really just drugged her, and you unknowingly assisted in another senior abduction?
    I will turn on my cohorts and rat them out to serve less time.
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  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Tone:

    It was the only thing I could do to get my being kicked out of the forest dropped from two years to six months. I think when it goes to trial we will all get off because one of the guys worked for the FS and is more ignorant than me. Our plea will be STUPIDTY

    TD
    Wait, you ratted out others to reduce your ban from 2 years to 6 months? Your a complete *******. I lost all respect for you.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Wait, you ratted out others to reduce your ban from 2 years to 6 months? Your a complete *******. I lost all respect for you.
    I dunno CO. Maybe it's just me but...judging from the last 200 posts you've written to and about td, it doesn't appear that there was a whole lot of respect for you to lose. (Just an observation. I could be wrong of course).

    Having said that, I must confess to being a bit disappointed myself. I mean...I always thought td was a stand up guy. Thought he was down for the cause. I guess there's just no honor among rogue trail builders any more. Not like it used to be. So much for taking one for the team.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    I dunno CO. Maybe it's just me but...judging from the last 200 posts you've written to and about td, it doesn't appear that there was a whole lot of respect for you to lose. (Just an observation. I could be wrong of course).

    Having said that, I must confess to being a bit disappointed myself. I mean...I always thought td was a stand up guy. Thought he was down for the cause. I guess there's just no honor among rogue trail builders any more. Not like it used to be. So much for taking one for the team.
    You read my last 200 posts about TD? Suggestion: Seinfeld reruns.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    You read my last 200 posts about TD? Suggestion: Seinfeld reruns.
    Tried that. It was nowhere near as entertaining...
    Last edited by Centurion_; 08-25-2012 at 07:31 PM.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Tried that. Nowhere near as entertaining...
    I have and had zero respect fo TD's online persona. I think I've made that clear.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

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  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Tone:

    It was the only thing I could do to get my being kicked out of the forest dropped from two years to six months. I think when it goes to trial we will all get off because one of the guys worked for the FS and is more ignorant than me. Our plea will be STUPIDTY

    TD

    Rolling over on you're cohorts has to be lower than whale sh!t on the list of things to do when busted.

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    Nobody talks and everybody walks.
    Words to live by.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    I have and had zero respect fo TD's online persona. I think I've made that clear.
    Which was exactly my point. Because...how can you "lose all respect" for someone or something when you never had it in the first place? Just trying to point out the inconsistancy of your earlier statement I mean...in order to lose something, you first must have it, don't you? .

    I dunno. It seemed funny to me at the time. But it loses it's punch when you have to break it down and s'plain it.

    Havn't seen the td on tonight. Must be layin low......

  155. #155
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  156. #156
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    Reading Traildoc is the same as listening to Charlie Sheen talk about Winning! and tiger blood. The disconnected ramblings of a burnout.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Which was exactly my point. Because...how can you "lose all respect" for someone or something when you never had it in the first place? Just trying to point out the inconsistancy of your earlier statement I mean...in order to lose something, you first must have it, don't you? .

    I dunno. It seemed funny to me at the time. But it loses it's punch when you have to break it down and s'plain it.

    Havn't seen the td on tonight. Must be layin low......
    I never said I didn't ever have respect for TD. And in fact I'm pretty sure I have said in the past I respect what he has done for Sedona (or at least implied it).
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    I have and had zero respect fo TD's online persona. I think I've made that clear.

    It's the online persona. Gotcha. You did make that clear, and I missed it. My bad.

    So actually, we agree. I barely know J., and only met him once. But I've ridden some of his trails and seen his maps, and they are first rate. The man has put in literally thousands of hours serving his local mountain bike community. One has to respect that.

    It's just that...sittin in front of a keyboard as traildoc, the guy goes a little nuts. It's like a Jekyl & Hyde thing. Often entertaining, usually annoying, and just...well...hard to figure.

    What a country!

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by berzerker View Post
    The point is you gave the names of those who helped you, not whether you think the charges will be dropped. It's obvious you don't have anyone's back, even those who were on your side in your well-intentioned, though misguided, trail building escapades. What if the charges are not dropped and all those people you gave up are banned from the forest, or worse, criminally charged. Classy move doc.
    berzerk:

    You just might be a poor judge of character. Not everything is just quite as it seems. The prosecuting attorney was given a lot of incorrect information about the trail work I did on Munds Wagon trail, so he was at a disadvantage as to what actually happen on that project.

    He thought I had gone out and destroyed a scared Indian burial ground along with the help of two other hard working trail maintenance volunteers and one FS employee who was supervising us. As it turned out we just cut some tree branches moved some rocks and pine needles. Then Justin the FS employee went to the extra effort of putting in some nice water diverterters out of some nicely placed rock.

    This is a video of the actual project (). I am sure when the prosecutor sends out his investigative teem they will not come up with any old Indian bones.

    Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but I had no internet service where I was located.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails So What is YOUR Plan to STOP Rogue Trail Building in Sedona???-010a.jpg  

    Last edited by traildoc; 08-26-2012 at 05:09 PM.

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    Is the Rumor TRUE????

    I heard that possibly the NEW Sedona Mountain Bike Club may be helping the Red Rock Ranger District decommission the new poorly built downhill trail in the Brewer Road area. Hopefully there will be a large turnout of volunteers to help with the decommissioning process.

    It sounds like a great PR move on the clubs part and hopefully the rumor is true.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I heard that possibly the NEW Sedona Mountain Bike Club may be helping the Red Rock Ranger District decommission the new poorly built downhill trail in the Brewer Road area. Hopefully there will be a large turnout of volunteers to help with the decommissioning process.

    It sounds like a great PR move on the clubs part and hopefully the rumor is true.
    They proposed to help. SMBC Staying Focused on The Positive | SMBC

    No word yet whether the FS is taking them up on it or whether they would rather continue to foster the negative perception of the mountain bike community that is evident in the CH 3 news bit.

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    They proposed to help. SMBC Staying Focused on The Positive | SMBC

    No word yet whether the FS is taking them up on it or whether they would rather continue to foster the negative perception of the mountain bike community that is evident in the CH 3 news bit.
    I'll show up to help and represent FGR.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    I'll show up to help and represent FGR.
    Count me in too.

  164. #164
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    We're still doing this......?
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

  165. #165
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    How do we contact the new Sedona mtb club? I'm serious, I'll be there if I can.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    How do we contact the new Sedona mtb club? I'm serious, I'll be there if I can.
    [email protected]

  167. #167
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    Prescott Mountain Bike Alliance did the same thing when it was first birthed. It wasn't a "DH" trail but it was an illegally-built semi-technical trail that went right through the center of an arch site. PMBA put together a trail crew to decommission the trail; long-term, there is supposed to be a "trade" happening, with the FS agreeing to a somewhat technical trail in the same general area as the decommissioned trail.

    It's all so deliciously political.

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