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  1. #1
    parenting for gnarness
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    Scottsdale MSP Gateway 411?

    So what's the beta? Is this a place to avoid with your bike due to crowds, a good trailhead, good for the bike trailer? Looked on the map like for Windgate\Bell the 104th TH is still best and would bypass the most casual hikers...

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/s...serve0501.html

    I like the idea, but for 95M there better be nymphs giving me a hummer in the gold-plated port-o-let
    Last edited by chollaball; 04-30-2009 at 11:20 PM.
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  2. #2
    pedaller
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    MSP vs. MMP

    No idea but to clarify:

    Scottsdale = MSP = McDowell Sonoran Preserve
    Fountain Hills = MMP= McDowell Mountain Park



    ...and I thought the 95M was for the chairlift to the top!
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  3. #3
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    No idea but to clarify:

    Scottsdale = MSP = McDowell Sonoran Preserve
    Fountain Hills = MMP= McDowell Mountain Park
    *shrug* its all XC and who really gives a rat's @ss if there is no gnar involved

    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg



    ...and I thought the 95M was for the chairlift to the top!
    Beer for whomever comes up with the best justification of 95M for a trailhead.

    I think there will be a cardiologist stationed in the lobby so that "anyone regardless of their physical capabilities can go and enjoy."
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  4. #4
    pedaller
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    Maybe it was 95M for toolbox airlifts??
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  5. #5
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    Maybe it was 95M for toolbox airlifts??
    must have been nymphs giving hummers in gold-plated toolboxes...
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  6. #6
    Dave
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    95 Million

    I think the 95M was for the moving sidewalk they put in right next to the bike trails.

    They said "This is the location that anyone regardless of their physical capabilities can go and enjoy the splendor and magic and learn about the Sonoran Desert,"
    I need to ride more and work less.

  7. #7
    Combining Old and Bold
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    The trail from the new TH connecting to the rest of the trails is pretty direct, very wide, and buffed smooth. Very easy to connect to Gateway loop and the rest of Windgate, Bell, etc. Always nice to have a restroom, as well. If none of this matters, just use the Bell/104th TH. I'm personally not a huge fan of the road/trail that takes you from there to the Gateway loop, but it's no big deal. I've been using the Horseshoe trail (Village TH) for my access, but I'll probably switch over to the new trail.

    As for the $95M....yikes! And I don't think that includes the $82M that Scottsdale had to pay Toll Brothers to condemn and buy back the land. Oh well....I'd rather have a fancy trailhead than another subdivision trying to cut off my trail access.

  8. #8
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by liteandfast
    I think the 95M was for the moving sidewalk they put in right next to the bike trails.

    They said "This is the location that anyone regardless of their physical capabilities can go and enjoy the splendor and magic and learn about the Sonoran Desert,"
    funny how the sarcasm thus far has all revolved around the idea of the money making it accessible. I am kinda torn by this - I do think its great how our National parks etc make efforts for all to enjoy, its a noble goal and should build appreciation for the outdoors and fitness etc.

    buuuuuut, keeping things a little bit hard ensures (sorta) that people mostly stay within themselves.

    I dunno...my parents have come with me to the GC, paid their $20 entry fee and used basically no resources other than the museums, which I enjoy too along with hiking all the trails. But the GC is different cause you pay an entry fee, so its your choice. Big taxes for big accessibility I'm not real comfortable about.
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  9. #9
    livin' the dream......
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    I use the village TH too for the past year or so and plan on riding out of there tomorrow. I don't think people are going to venture too far out from the Gateway.

    I'm w/DrHog, would rather have the access. They could have built homes all the way up Windgate pass, and I heard years ago there was plans to put a resort in the pass itself.

    Lot's of $, but what the heck.

  10. #10
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    I went to the opening this AM and was curious about the cost of it all, so I asked one of the MSP big-wigs what it all cost, and for the building/parking/roads/trails/landscaping (basically, the "project") it was $4m. The big ticket item was obviously the land, after selling it, condemning it, and buying it back--$81.9m. The project is funded through City of Scottsdale sales taxes, so it actually an avoidable tax if you don't agree with the project.

    After seeing it completed, I'm extremely impressed. Go check it out.

  11. #11
    Fragile - must be Italian
    Reputation: dgangi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrHog
    The project is funded through City of Scottsdale sales taxes
    Actually, I heard it was being funded by a Botox and breast augmentation tax...and will be paid off within the next 6 months.

    Thx...Doug

  12. #12
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    I rode out of The Village trail head and went up Desert Park to Windgate to avoid any larger hiking groups wandering out after the ceremony was over. It as nice to see several members of the MILF hiking club had made it up to Tom's.

    We worked our way up Tom's Thumb and down East End then back up over Windgate. The views up top were great and the granite rock formations were cool. I hiked up there a few years ago and was glad to get up there on the bike. I did a fair bit of HAB going up Tom's, but it was worth it.

    East End was good and the loop over all was 13.6 miles.

    The oddest thing was seeing 2 asian women in bikini's & sandals with big rice paddy hats coming up from the north side access.

    Good times.

  13. #13
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    How was the descent coming down East End? I'm thinking huge forearm pump for the whole switchback section, but then maybe some nice flow in the last 1/2 mile?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrHog
    I went to the opening this AM and was curious about the cost of it all, so I asked one of the MSP big-wigs what it all cost, and for the building/parking/roads/trails/landscaping (basically, the "project") it was $4m. The big ticket item was obviously the land, after selling it, condemning it, and buying it back--$81.9m. The project is funded through City of Scottsdale sales taxes, so it actually an avoidable tax if you don't agree with the project.

    After seeing it completed, I'm extremely impressed. Go check it out.

    Interesting.

    I can see how it did cost them a few bucks to do this project. Lots of low impact (read manual labor instead of big azz machines) practices and lots of recycling and the like. They also have an underground water storage that will collect rain water running off the trailhead roof and disperse it in the drier times to some larger trees. Some pretty interesting stuff. And the doggie drinking fountain is pretty cool too.

    They also had new maps displayed - including Tom's Thumb and East End. Anyone know where I can score one of those?

    They did a nice job on this but I wonder what is up with the "we're closing the gates at 4:00pm" signs? That's a bit early.


    --Jeff

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrHog
    How was the descent coming down East End? I'm thinking huge forearm pump for the whole switchback section, but then maybe some nice flow in the last 1/2 mile?
    Top of East End is great, middle section is steep switch backs, I walked a few of them honestly but then last .5 to .75 is buffed out with good flow and was a blast to ride.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb
    Interesting.


    They also had new maps displayed - including Tom's Thumb and East End. Anyone know where I can score one of those?

    They did a nice job on this but I wonder what is up with the "we're closing the gates at 4:00pm" signs? That's a bit early.


    --Jeff
    Jeff,

    If you visit one of the manned trailheads (Gateway, Lost Dog, Sunrise) between 8-12, the stewards are giving them out--as long as supplies last. You could also visit the office and pick up a couple. It's at the corner of Scottsdale and FLW.

    No idea what is up with the 4:00 pm close--way too early. I can only guess that it's temporary, perhaps building some time in to finish some unfinished tasks with the construction?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrHog
    Jeff,

    If you visit one of the manned trailheads (Gateway, Lost Dog, Sunrise) between 8-12, the stewards are giving them out--as long as supplies last. You could also visit the office and pick up a couple. It's at the corner of Scottsdale and FLW.

    No idea what is up with the 4:00 pm close--way too early. I can only guess that it's temporary, perhaps building some time in to finish some unfinished tasks with the construction?
    Very good. Thanks for the info.


    --Jeff

  18. #18
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    Just swung thru the Gateway on the way home from the kiddo's hockey game. That is way more parking than I anticipated............

    Ditto on the 4pm gate closure that others wrote about earlier. Also noticed "Preferred parking for low emmision or fuel efficient vehicles" signs on about a dozen parking spots close to the building. I'll make sure my buddy with the civic hybrid drives when we carpool there.......

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