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  1. #1
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    Racing Fees

    I know that racing is not supposed to be cheap, but the fees are incredible. The MBAA race series is beginning, and it seems like the fees keep tacking on. An MBAA license is $20, a USAC license is $60/min, and then you have to pay for a race ticket. That is just so you can race. In this economy, where people are being paid less, asked to work without pay, and/or even being laid off, it is tough to swallow. I'm an amateur racer, and I know that it is my decision whether or not to race, but I can't say I'm happy about all the licensing and accredidation you have to do for each race. I'm just venting, and I paid my entrance fee.

    - Anyone else agree these fees get out of hand?
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pynis McDermott
    I know that racing is not supposed to be cheap, but the fees are incredible. The MBAA race series is beginning, and it seems like the fees keep tacking on. An MBAA license is $20, a USAC license is $60/min, and then you have to pay for a race ticket. That is just so you can race. In this economy, where people are being paid less, asked to work without pay, and/or even being laid off, it is tough to swallow. I'm an amateur racer, and I know that it is my decision whether or not to race, but I can't say I'm happy about all the licensing and accredidation you have to do for each race. I'm just venting, and I paid my entrance fee.

    - Anyone else agree these fees get out of hand?
    try the AES series and other underground events. "...are you freaking out man?"

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    try the AES series and other underground events. "...are you freaking out man?"
    Thanks, I like the Super Troopers reference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pynis McDermott
    I know that racing is not supposed to be cheap, but the fees are incredible. The MBAA race series is beginning, and it seems like the fees keep tacking on. An MBAA license is $20, a USAC license is $60/min, and then you have to pay for a race ticket. That is just so you can race. In this economy, where people are being paid less, asked to work without pay, and/or even being laid off, it is tough to swallow. I'm an amateur racer, and I know that it is my decision whether or not to race, but I can't say I'm happy about all the licensing and accredidation you have to do for each race. I'm just venting, and I paid my entrance fee.

    - Anyone else agree these fees get out of hand?
    Its getting there. I paid $48.20 with fees when I registered last night, plus $6.00 yesterday to pre-ride and then $6.00 for Saturdays entrance fee. $60 and I better do well!! Or get a lot faster and get fees paid for by sponser.

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    racew expert so you get the most bang for your buck. the beginners get shafted. less than an hour for totalling 60+. not to mention the gas etc. kinda retarded. fun though. so its worth it.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, I am doing the Sport series, even though this will only be my 2nd MTB race. My first one was the Absolute Bikes race in Flagstaff, and that one was reasonably priced. I agree beginner rates are murder.
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  7. #7
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    I did the full MBAA series last year. Fun and worth it since it was my first foray into racing. I did beginner. I'm going to do a couple this year in the sport class. It is stupid expensive I agree. Hence I'll only do a couple races.

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    David at DCB is smart by only charging $35.00 for the Dust Devil Series, which is a better, plus he doesnt increase the charge for last minute and I saw a ton of people registering on race day.Rather than get penalized the $10 extra that MBAA charges, which probably keeps the last minute people from attending.

    Plus Davids tee shirts are pretty cool.

    But I like to race, so I will pay the dues, which I know goes toward some good at MBAA!

  9. #9
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    I guess it is still cheaper than being a golfer. Some of the courses in Phoenix are like 150 bucks or more. Can you imagine paying that every weekend to walk around a big grass field chasing a ball with some sticks?
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMPhi767
    I guess it is still cheaper than being a golfer. Some of the courses in Phoenix are like 150 bucks or more. Can you imagine paying that every weekend to walk around a big grass field chasing a ball with some sticks?

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMPhi767
    I guess it is still cheaper than being a golfer. Some of the courses in Phoenix are like 150 bucks or more. Can you imagine paying that every weekend to walk around a big grass field chasing a ball with some sticks?
    Way cheaper, cause golfing/training for golfing costs that much. Training/riding costs zero. Sure a race costs a lot, but hell, you gotta wan't it in the first place anyway? How much do you want to win?
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  12. #12
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    Having been on the MBAA board and seen the actual costs to put on the races, most of which are handled by volunteers with no expectation of reimbursement stipends, and having seen the year end treasurers report, the individual charge is in line with actual costs. This year, if you're an MBAA member you can register for all eight racers for the price of 7. If you're already a NORBA or USAC member that amount is deducted from the registration cost.

    I am not in your position, or that of many folks out there, financially. But I have been there in years past and can empathize with you regarding the total amount. I guess by comparison to a one day race at Leadville, for $265, plus all the expenses of getting there and staying there for a week prior to adjust to the altitude, the one day expense here seems affordable.

    It's really all relative.

    Have fun on Saturday. I hope to see you at the start!

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  13. #13
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    Hmmm.... my memory is not THAT bad...

    Quote Originally Posted by pwrtrainer
    racew expert so you get the most bang for your buck. the beginners get shafted. less than an hour for totalling 60+. not to mention the gas etc. kinda retarded. fun though. so its worth it.
    Michael, I seem to remember when you registered beginner and it's pretty much all you could do.....
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Way cheaper, cause golfing/training for golfing costs that much. Training/riding costs zero. Sure a race costs a lot, but hell, you gotta wan't it in the first place anyway? How much do you want to win?
    Actually training/riding does not cost zero. If you factor in your cost of your bike, cost of drinks, energy fuel, repairs, tubes/sealant etc; biking is not the cheapest sport.

    But I wouldnt trade for golf for anything!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog
    Michael, I seem to remember when you registered beginner and it's pretty much all you could do.....
    now i race mostly DH. the times they are a changin. once im a PT then ill be back to XC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BritMtnBiker
    Actually training/riding does not cost zero. If you factor in your cost of your bike, cost of drinks, energy fuel, repairs, tubes/sealant etc; biking is not the cheapest sport.

    But I wouldnt trade for golf for anything!
    Things that you wuold have already covered. The guy that was talking about how expensive it was to golf didn't cover the clubs, the goofy pants, the shoes, the gas to get to the golf "resort", and so on. He was just talking about how much money it was to do it even when you already had everything and you just wanted to go do it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Things that you wuold have already covered. The guy that was talking about how expensive it was to golf didn't cover the clubs, the goofy pants, the shoes, the gas to get to the golf "resort", and so on. He was just talking about how much money it was to do it even when you already had everything and you just wanted to go do it.
    And don't forget the balls. Clean balls are not cheap.
    Getting a dropper post is like getting a bidet. I didn't know I needed one until I get one and boy, does my ass thank me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BritMtnBiker
    Actually training/riding does not cost zero. If you factor in your cost of your bike, cost of drinks, energy fuel, repairs, tubes/sealant etc; biking is not the cheapest sport.

    But I wouldnt trade for golf for anything!
    +1 to that. Biking is not that cheap either. Bikes are getting more and more expensive. Racing components are the pinnacle of price, and maintennance, tuning, energy drinks, equipment, gear, and replacing worn out gear starts to add up. True, golf gets ridiculous when you have to pay over $60/round, but funding your own races is not a cheap game either.
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  19. #19
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    I gotta agree with Salty. Yeah, the prices are going up, but their costs are probably rocketing up too. Insurance is probably a huge one (haven't reallly looked into it, but its a good bet). The price you have to pay for a good day on the bike with a bunch of like-minded individuals.

    (and yeah, compared to total Leadville costs, its peanuts....)
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdudecycling
    I gotta agree with Salty. Yeah, the prices are going up, but their costs are probably rocketing up too. Insurance is probably a huge one (haven't reallly looked into it, but its a good bet). The price you have to pay for a good day on the bike with a bunch of like-minded individuals.

    (and yeah, compared to total Leadville costs, its peanuts....)
    The price of the race fee, I can handle. It is the additional licensing you need when each race has a different accredidation and/or affiliation. If it was just an MBAA license, I would be fine with it, but the USAC license is an additional $60, or pay $5 for each license you don't have each race. It's cheaper than a Cardinal's ticket, and I am just venting, but I think one affiliation is enough.
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  21. #21
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    Food for thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pynis McDermott
    The price of the race fee, I can handle. It is the additional licensing you need when each race has a different accredidation and/or affiliation. If it was just an MBAA license, I would be fine with it, but the USAC license is an additional $60, or pay $5 for each license you don't have each race. It's cheaper than a Cardinal's ticket, and I am just venting, but I think one affiliation is enough.
    (1) Dave Benjies is a nice guy, and I really like him and I've seen a huge improvement in the Dust Devil series the past three years. Lots of fun and a great way to start getting in shape.

    (2) Dave runs a for-profit company that helps pay his rent and food and stuff for his lovely wife and their children (should be two very soon, if not already).

    (3) Dave runs an 'adventure' company that sponsors a number of other events, all of which are pay to play items, so he has the revenue from those events to augment the revenue from the Dust Devil series. I don't know which event is strongest for him financially, but I think the profit from one is offset by loss from another, with the net being a small income. I doubt he's getting really rich from it, but only he can tell you that.

    (4) MBAA holds between 5 and 8 events each year and has to charge for all of them and is NOT a for-profit organization.

    (5) Until last year MBAA did not collect daily race fees for NORBA. NORBA makes them collect those fees now, and if I recall correctly they did the same at the Dawn to Dusk races, as well.

    I know it can be tough to come up with the bucks to get out there and race, and all the expenses of really good equipment make it even tougher.

    In the big picture, however, I think all of the promoters are charging reasonable fees for what they offer.

    I buy the annual parks pass for Maricopa County and I take advantage of riding in one of the parks as much as possible. However, even though those parks are tax based, they still need the additional revenue from day users to offset operating costs.

    We have to pay for Joe arpaio's lawsuits somehow.
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    Thanks for your support

    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog
    (1) Dave Benjies is a nice guy, and I really like him and I've seen a huge improvement in the Dust Devil series the past three years. Lots of fun and a great way to start getting in shape.

    (2) Dave runs a for-profit company that helps pay his rent and food and stuff for his lovely wife and their children (should be two very soon, if not already).

    (3) Dave runs an 'adventure' company that sponsors a number of other events, all of which are pay to play items, so he has the revenue from those events to augment the revenue from the Dust Devil series. I don't know which event is strongest for him financially, but I think the profit from one is offset by loss from another, with the net being a small income. I doubt he's getting really rich from it, but only he can tell you that.

    (4) MBAA holds between 5 and 8 events each year and has to charge for all of them and is NOT a for-profit organization.

    (5) Until last year MBAA did not collect daily race fees for NORBA. NORBA makes them collect those fees now, and if I recall correctly they did the same at the Dawn to Dusk races, as well.

    I know it can be tough to come up with the bucks to get out there and race, and all the expenses of really good equipment make it even tougher.

    In the big picture, however, I think all of the promoters are charging reasonable fees for what they offer.

    I buy the annual parks pass for Maricopa County and I take advantage of riding in one of the parks as much as possible. However, even though those parks are tax based, they still need the additional revenue from day users to offset operating costs.

    We have to pay for Joe arpaio's lawsuits somehow.
    Your racing dollars go towards trail advocacy. One good example is the gas powered jackhammer for the BCT. Go out and race em all. It is a great value.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by NMPhi767
    And don't forget the balls. Clean balls are not cheap.
    I live on a golf course, I get balls in my back yard all the time, Man Oh man, have I got balls!!!!!
    Better than most, not as good as some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhykhelle
    Your racing dollars go towards trail advocacy. One good example is the gas powered jackhammer for the BCT. Go out and race em all. It is a great value.
    Hey, do these races series award points toward year end standings for volunteering on trail maintence/building?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by u2metoo
    Hey, do these races series award points toward year end standings for volunteering on trail maintence/building?
    Yes, you get 30 points towards your year end point total for doing trail maintenance. It's a one time deal. So I do that and, then move a few rocks around Hawes, and call it good for the year.
    Better than most, not as good as some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by surfndav
    ... So I do that and, then move a few rocks around Hawes, and call it good for the year.
    Paging Mr. Maadjurguer! Paging Mr. Maadjurguer!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by u2metoo
    Paging Mr. Maadjurguer! Paging Mr. Maadjurguer!
    Hey some of us are driving over here, and making me laugh that hard is not safe for me or the drivers around me.
    Better than most, not as good as some.

  28. #28
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    All joking aside, I raced the whole series last year. I was impressed with level of organization that the MBAA has. I have been involved with race organization in the past (running events) and I know it takes a lot of effort and commitment by a lot of people who want to bring something good and fun to the community. So thumbs up to those who help out and volunteer, so that those of us who want to race can have events such as this. I will race all the races that I can this year and I hope many more do too. If your on the fence and have not raced before, come on out. I bet you’ll have a blast.
    Better than most, not as good as some.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salty Dog
    I guess by comparison to a one day race at Leadville, for $265, plus all the expenses of getting there and staying there for a week prior to adjust to the altitude, the one day expense here seems affordable. It's really all relative.
    Relative to CEP preseason races on the SAME trails it costs a little more than half as much to go with a for profit company as opposed to a "save the earth and trails" mbaa race. That's "relatively" OVERPRICED.

    It's a field of grey haired racers out there now, kids. The 40+ and 50+ age range is huge and the 20s range is shrinking. Let's overcharge and get rid of younger riders...yep, that's the idea. Why deal with two riders when you can have one overpay?

    Eff mbaa and their high prices. Cycling is becoming an old mans sport due to high industry prices and mbaa doesn't exactly help keep the sport rolling.

  30. #30
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    Gray haired riders..

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerDoger
    Relative to CEP preseason races on the SAME trails it costs a little more than half as much to go with a for profit company as opposed to a "save the earth and trails" mbaa race. That's "relatively" OVERPRICED.

    It's a field of grey haired racers out there now, kids. The 40+ and 50+ age range is huge and the 20s range is shrinking. Let's overcharge and get rid of younger riders...yep, that's the idea. Why deal with two riders when you can have one overpay?

    Eff mbaa and their high prices. Cycling is becoming an old mans sport due to high industry prices and mbaa doesn't exactly help keep the sport rolling.
    Roger, you've goofy. Think of how much the races would cost if you didn't have the gray hairs and families out there. Those of you who want the course to yourselves wouldn't be able to afford it, unless you all volunteered to run the race yourselves and took turns running it, and doing trail work and such.

    So, you say Eff MBAA. Good for you.

    Sorry if I slowed you down yesterday.

    Fortunately, I've made it to gray hair. You don't know if you will, do you?
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    Oh hell, I didn't make my point well it seems. I have nothing against "grey haired" riders and meant no offense.

    My point was that when prices almost double, you lose younger racers.

    Races have now become something that people sign up for just to complete. Marathons are walkathons, Ironman races are completely walkable within time cutoffs, and triathlons are full of people just going to complete and not compete. When prices increase it cuts off a huge percentage of the population that wants to compete in their younger category but why bother when it will have a total of 8 or 9 riders?

    Meh, just angry this morning for no good reason. I want to race, but not against a handful of riders in my cat. Yes, I'm upset at this.

  32. #32
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    No problem...

    Quote Originally Posted by RogerDoger
    Oh hell, I didn't make my point well it seems. I have nothing against "grey haired" riders and meant no offense.

    My point was that when prices almost double, you lose younger racers.

    Races have now become something that people sign up for just to complete. Marathons are walkathons, Ironman races are completely walkable within time cutoffs, and triathlons are full of people just going to complete and not compete. When prices increase it cuts off a huge percentage of the population that wants to compete in their younger category but why bother when it will have a total of 8 or 9 riders?

    Meh, just angry this morning for no good reason. I want to race, but not against a handful of riders in my cat. Yes, I'm upset at this.
    Tell you what, I will pay your entry, or for someone else in your category, for the race at MMP. PM with your info and I will mail a check.

    The good thing about gray hair is that I can afford most anything I want to do. But I worked almost 40 years of my adult life to get there.

    That should help erase some of the pain, and it might put a smile on yer face. You sure are grumpy today!

    Tommy
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  33. #33
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    Try Road bike races:

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SenorSlacker
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    Consider yourself deleted. :-)
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