Paul B. - MTB Arizona - Prescott Section- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New question here. Paul B. - MTB Arizona - Prescott Section

    Paul, because I am seriously looking to move to the Prescott/Flag area, I went ahead and bought your book - mainly because I appreciate that you frequent these forums. First off, I will say that it is very well done - I like the organization, descriptions and detailed content. But I really need to ask you about something:

    Based on your (and many others) recommendation, I have been looking mostly at Prescott and I was really dissapointed when I read your chapter on the area. The two Prescott area rides that you detail do not sound appealing at all. Spruce Mtn mentions horses and more horses - I don't know about you, but encountering more than one horse on a ride is a ride killer. Having to stop and dismount for these freakishly skittish creatures sucks hard - especially when you are trying to tackle a tough ascent. I think that there should be horse trails and bike trails and never the twain shall meet. Granite Basin mentions horses and goes right past an equestrian center.

    Now, I know that there are a lot more trails in Prescot than you could put in the book (and, understandably, there is more space devoted to Phoenix/Tuscon), but I am wondering if these trails are indicative of the rest and/or are they the best that Prescott has to offer? If there are other non-horsey trails in Prescot, then why did you list these?
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  2. #2
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    You don't mention where you are moving from...

    Quote Originally Posted by sodade
    Spruce Mtn mentions horses and more horses - I don't know about you, but encountering more than one horse on a ride is a ride killer. Having to stop and dismount for these freakishly skittish creatures sucks hard - especially when you are trying to tackle a tough ascent. I think that there should be horse trails and bike trails and never the twain shall meet.
    I hope Paul answers your question about Preskit, but in all seriousness, Arizona is cowboy country. I have ridden all over the state and can't at the moment think of a place where you might not encounter horses on the same trails that you bicycle. It is something that you will potentially deal with almost anywhere you move in this state.

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  3. #3
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    Easy there, Hoss

    Quote Originally Posted by sodade
    The two Prescott area rides that you detail do not sound appealing at all. Spruce Mtn mentions horses and more horses - I don't know about you, but encountering more than one horse on a ride is a ride killer. Having to stop and dismount for these freakishly skittish creatures sucks hard - especially when you are trying to tackle a tough ascent. I think that there should be horse trails and bike trails and never the twain shall meet. Granite Basin mentions horses and goes right past an equestrian center.

    I am wondering if these trails are indicative of the rest and/or are they the best that Prescott has to offer? If there are other non-horsey trails in Prescot, then why did you list these?
    Prescott probably has more trail mileage per capita than anywhere else in the state, including Flagstaff. It is also a far more charming community than Flagstaff. Yes, you will encounter some horses in Prescott from time to time, particularly on the Granite Basin trails, if only because those are the most popular in the area. But, in all the years I have ridden up there, I have never once encountered more than 2 horse groups on a ride, and usually encounter none. Hikers are more common than horses, and they will be encountered on almost every ride on the more popular trails. That said, once you venture off into the plentiful and more obscure trails, you won't encounter anyone, horse, hiker, or biker.

    The reason these two trails are in the guide book (putting words in Paul's mouth, to which he will no doubt reply to correct me) is because these two are probably the most "classic" and frequently ridden of all the Prescott trails. Future editions will probably add some of the other so-called, "Costco" trails, including Trail 305, and perhaps some more from the Thumbe Butte/Sierra Prieta Overlook area.

    Hopefully you have a more tolerant outlook on multiple use of public lands than another poster here this week, who was concerned about whether cows were allowed on the "publick" lands up there.
    Last edited by pedalAZ; 05-06-2004 at 07:47 AM.

  4. #4
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    No big thing...

    Can't speak for the rest of the trails but the 23 miles that I did last weekend didn't have a single solitary equine encounter. In fact most of the trails we did weren't even suitable for horse traffic and had signs to that effect.

    In any case - as pointed out above - horses are a fact of life around here. They aren't all that frequent and are as prepared to share the by-ways as any other user - I have had many equestrians yield to me rather than hold me up so in fact they aren't that big a deal.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedalAZ
    Prescott probably has more trail mileage per capita than anywhere else in the state, including Flagstaff. It is also a far more charming community than Flagstaff. Yes, you will encounter some horses in Prescott from time to time, particularly on the Granite Basin trails, if only because those are the most popular in the area. But, in all the years I have ridden up there, I have never once encountered more than 2 horse groups on a ride, and usually encounter none. Hikers are more common than horses, and they will be encountered on almost every ride on the more popular trails. That said, once you venture off into the plentiful and more obscure trails, you won't encounter anyone, horse, hiker, or biker.

    The reason these two trails are in the guide book (putting words in Paul's mouth, to which he will no doubt reply to correct me) is because these two are probably the most "classic" and frequently ridden of all the Prescott trails. Future editions will probably add some of the other so-called, "Costco" trails, including Trail 305, and perhaps some more from the Thumbe Butte/Sierra Prieta Overlook area.

    Hopefull you have amore tolerant outlook on multiple use of public lands than another poster here this week, who was concerned about whether cows were allowed on the "publick" lands up there.
    thanks for the perpective - I really appreciate it. It sounds like the sheer volume of trails makes equestians not such a problem. I don't mean to come off as intolerant of others using the trails - Horse people have a right to have trails too, but due to the nature of the interaction between horses and bikes, I think that both sides would prefer to avoid each other. Now, when you mention cows, that is a totally different story. I am sure that I have asked about cows on public lands in AZ. I don't want to get into it here (but if you want to discuss it maybe we should take it to the politcal/social/economic forums), but suffice it to say that I do not think that cows should be allowed on public land at all.

    So, when you say that Prescott is a "far more charming community than flag" could you give me some examples? I have certainly found that houses and lots are much nicer in Prescot, but I am a little concerned that Paul calls Prescott, "Flagstaff's right-wing alter ego." Though I am mostly a scruffy mountain biker, I am also an Assos-wearing roadie and I have plenty of negative road experiences with cowboy rednecks and none with granola hippies. I was talking to a friend who used to live in Payson and his impression was that Prescott was more hippie than redneck. I think it was JM who said that it was about a 50/50 split. Care to comment?
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  6. #6
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    Amen, bro

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    I'm greedy. I want access to ALL the trails, ALL the time. Anything that subdivides the total trail inventory both reduces the inventory for all the users, and continues to keep user groups separated so that misunderstandings (like yours about horses) continue.p.
    Well said.

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    The skinny on Prescott

    Okay, more detail on Prescott.

    First off, no, my Prescott section isn't as comprehensive as I'd like. It's getting a lot of love in the second edition. Specifically I'll be adding the Lynx Lake trail network and the Thumb Butte trails.

    Now, about horses on Spruce Mountain: I'll hit a group of equestrians maybe once every three rides out there. That, to me, is a high enough hit rate to warrant mention, especially given the trail is quite narrow and there's not a lot of places to pass. The presence of horses is significant on Spruce Mountain, I've seen horses at Granite Basin, I've not yet seen horses around Thumb Butte (although I've seen poop!), nor on Lynx Lake (ditto re. poop). I mention horses specifically in the Prescott rides because that's where I've found the greatest and most consistent concentration of them.

    My perspective on horses sounds like it's a whole lot different than yours. Horses are a fact of life in Arizona. They just are. You'll run into groups on tours at South Mountain, for heaven's sake. I've been stuck behind a train of 10 horses, pack mules, and a bunch of dog on Mt. Elden in Flagstaff. There were equestrians down on Ice House Canyon in Globe a few weeks ago. I've seen horses at Hawes, at North Mountain, at Starr Pass in Tucson, on the Rainbow Rim Trail, Highline in Payson, Camp Beale in Kingman...

    Shoot, I'd have to say the list of trails that are more-or-less horse free forever and ever has got to be very short: McDowell Mountain Competitive Track, Fantasy Island, White Tank Competitive Track, Page Loop. Welcome to Arizona.

    So if you're coming to our state, be prepared to deal with horses. I do not find them freakish or skittish, but then again I've been around them most of my life. They're no big deal, IME. If you've had a bad experience with horses, I strongly recommend you either get past it or find another state to move to, because you'll not be able to avoid them in Arizona.

    The question of mixed-use trails is more political than practical, again IMHO. Personally, every time I see a bikes-only race course (like McDowell Mountain, which actually isn't strictly horses-only but that's how it's treated), I cringe because that means there are equestrian-only trails nearby. I'm greedy. I want access to ALL the trails, ALL the time. Anything that subdivides the total trail inventory both reduces the inventory for all the users, and continues to keep user groups separated so that misunderstandings (like yours about horses) continue.

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  8. #8
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    Moving from NH

    Looks like from Nashua NH - strangely enough the same place my wife is from and I always tease her about it being the redneck capital of the East

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    Quote Originally Posted by sodade
    I am a little concerned that Paul calls Prescott, "Flagstaff's right-wing alter ego." Though I am mostly a scruffy mountain biker, I am also an Assos-wearing roadie and I have plenty of negative road experiences with cowboy rednecks and none with granola hippies. I was talking to a friend who used to live in Payson and his impression was that Prescott was more hippie than redneck. I think it was JM who said that it was about a 50/50 split. Care to comment?
    I've also said Prescott is evenly divided between rednecks and hippies. Flag, to me, has more like an 80% granola bias vs. Prescott's 50% bias. NAU is a huge help, as is old town Flag. Prescott's got the oldest continuously operating rodeo, by comparison. It also has a ton of construction -- I'd be more afraid of the big ass gravel trucks barrelling down shoulderless mountain roads than I would of cowboys chucking empty beer cans.

    It sounds like you're gonna be in for quite a cultural shock when you come out here, bro. Maybe you should try staying a week and see how it goes. Seriously.

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    So if you're coming to our state, be prepared to deal with horses. I do not find them freakish or skittish, but then again I've been around them most of my life. They're no big deal, IME. If you've had a bad experience with horses, I strongly recommend you either get past it or find another state to move to, because you'll not be able to avoid them in Arizona.

    The question of mixed-use trails is more political than practical, again IMHO. Personally, every time I see a bikes-only race course (like McDowell Mountain, which actually isn't strictly horses-only but that's how it's treated), I cringe because that means there are equestrian-only trails nearby. I'm greedy. I want access to ALL the trails, ALL the time. Anything that subdivides the total trail inventory both reduces the inventory for all the users, and continues to keep user groups separated so that misunderstandings (like yours about horses) continue.

    p.
    Paul, thanks for the response. I will admit that my experiences have led me to despise horses (well, it's not really the horse's fault) - even though I do admit that they have a right to trails as well as mtbers. I used to live in the SF bay area and my experience there was that the horse people were highly resentful of any MTB presence. Frankly, they acted like they owned the trails - and based on their access to MTB-illegal singletrack in the area, I wondered if they did. Maybe the horses in AZ are used to bikes, but every time I encounter horses, the riders will be struggling to keep their horse under control - and I am not some body-armor wearing shredder dude. The other day, I was riding my road bike up a steep hill and I passes two people on horses and one of the horses reared up at my presence and I was on the other side of a two lane road!!

    I totally understand wanting to be able to access all the trails - I am an explorer too, but north of the bay area, there are two parks near each other, Annadel and Sugar Mountain. Sugar mountain was a popular equestrian trail system. Whenever we made the trip up there, we would ride Annadel because it just wasn't worth the hassle.

    Encountering a horse on every thrid ride in a place is high, but tolerable. I guess that, in the end, a lot of it comes down to the personalities of the horse riders...
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    Quote Originally Posted by crash test dummy
    Looks like from Nashua NH - strangely enough the same place my wife is from and I always tease her about it being the redneck capital of the East
    Yeah, I am not really a native here in NH, but I wouldn't call nashua redneck. The outlying areas certainly do have their share of trailers with 20 dilapidated cars though...
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  12. #12
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    If you despise horses, than Prescott is probably not the town for you. This is probably the biggest activity in the town the west forgot (and yes, I lived there for a year).

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    Prescott vs. Flagstaff

    Quote Originally Posted by sodade
    thanks for the perpective - I really appreciate it. It sounds like the sheer volume of trails makes equestians not such a problem. I don't mean to come off as intolerant of others using the trails - Horse people have a right to have trails too, but due to the nature of the interaction between horses and bikes, I think that both sides would prefer to avoid each other. Now, when you mention cows, that is a totally different story. I am sure that I have asked about cows on public lands in AZ. I don't want to get into it here (but if you want to discuss it maybe we should take it to the politcal/social/economic forums), but suffice it to say that I do not think that cows should be allowed on public land at all.

    So, when you say that Prescott is a "far more charming community than flag" could you give me some examples? I have certainly found that houses and lots are much nicer in Prescott, but I am a little concerned that Paul calls Prescott, "Flagstaff's right-wing alter ego." Though I am mostly a scruffy mountain biker, I am also an Assos-wearing roadie and I have plenty of negative road experiences with cowboy rednecks and none with granola hippies. I was talking to a friend who used to live in Payson and his impression was that Prescott was more hippie than redneck. I think it was JM who said that it was about a 50/50 split. Care to comment?
    Prescott (as opposed to Prescott Valley) has a real downtown almost like the ones in "It's a Wonderful Life" and "Back to the Future," but better, because most of the buildings along Cortez were once the saloons of Whiskey Row. Flagstaff has a downtown, but the larger city is more a ghastly, strung-out strip of motels and strip commercial development with too much traffic on the main east-west thoroughfare. Prescott has its share of this stuff, but it is not as bad, with the gross exception of the recently developed mall and car dealerships that destroyed the entrance to town between Prescott Valley and Prescott proper.

    Prescott has a cowboy population, a hippie population, a student population, a big retiree population, a segment of Californians who sold overpriced homes to come to Prescott and coast, unemployed, and a segment of middle class types who own and operate the small service and retail businesses. It does not have the Native American population that Flagstaff has. The student population in Prescott is more clean cut due to Embry Riddle's professional curriculum, compared to the (sorry about my bias here) slackers deferrring their careers at NAU. The Prescott natives and the retirees are right-aisle politically, just the opposite of Flagstaff. That leaves Prescott vulnerable to waking up to the perils of unrestrained growth until after it is too late to fix the damage (e.g., the new car dealerships). Flagstaff has a much more vigilant band of tree huggers who have forced more careful growth.

    Niether town has enough jobs in basic industries. You have well educated people moving to both cities for the outdoors and lifestyle options, driving home prices up, but settling for unskilled employment for lack of other employers. So, there are sour grapes in both communities, and resentment of the local trustafarians who don't have to work, but who perpetuate the availability of an "endless summer" lifestyle.

    If you like to go out every night to a variety of clubs, Prescott is not for you; the choices are too few compared to Flagstaff. If you are more interested in a real nice, laid back place to settle for a long time, I'd pick Prescott. If you need a ski/snowboard outlet, there is no choice but Flag; Prescott's winters are far milder.

    One advantage Prescott has for growth's sake is Prescott Valley, a cancerous consumer of former pronghorn antelope habitat that is capturing all of the affordable growth in Yavapai County. If you just close your eyes while passing through Prescott Valley until you get to Prescott, you'll be all right.

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    Arizona is not the Bay Area

    I guess I'm grateful to have never lived in the Bay area, because the user conflicts out there sound blistering.

    Arizona is not the Bay area. As much as people are afraid of losing trail access, based on what they've seen/heard/experienced in SF, we simply do not have the political will or environment for that to happen in Arizona. At least now, today, an in the immediate future. Environmental groups have tried some small-scale stuff -- some of which I agree with! -- and have been summarily shut down by developers, land owners, property rights groups, whomever.

    When there was a big controversy a couple years ago about freeriders riding stuff off-trail in South Mountain, a common refrain was, "We need to stop the freeriders otherwise the city will take the trails away from all mountain bikers." Probably not true, and even the rangers said so. Of course this doesn't give them license to run roughshod over the desert; we're always better off working with the land managers and the other trail users.

    The point of all this is, the equestrians are not our enemy. That doesn't mean there are some specific asshats who make life difficult for us (early days of San Tan trail proposals, for example), but as a group they have the same goals we do.

    I've personally never had a bad horse experience, and I've ridden tens of thousands of miles around the state in the past decade. When I got stuck behind the train of horses and dogs on Elden last year, I just yelled up to the leader and asked him to find a spot where I could zip by. Not a problem! We even chatted a bit when I was resting and the horses caught up with me. On Spruce Mountain, we all just patiently moved along the trail 'til there was a passing spot, and then we never darkened one anothers' doorstep again. At South Mountain, all you have to do is yell up to the riders and let them know you're there, or just pull off to the side for a minute and let them pass.

    I've never, ever had to resort to any means other than simple courtesy to get along with equestrians. Oh, and a bit of mutual patience -- they're having their ride disrupted by my activity as well, you know.

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  15. #15
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    still, no one should have to hike/ride in sheiße
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    You don't. I'm sure there is a hell of a lot more to do in Prescott than mt bike. The OP's suggestion that they have separate horse trails in Prescott is ludicrous. Guess who will get first dibs if the city and country leaders take this suggestion up. Good luck.

    (it's horse **** for heaven's sake, not razor blades.)

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    Good job!

    Thanks again to everyone who responded. I really really appreciate it. Trying to find my personal mtnbiking/living paradise is not easy, but it really helps to have the perspective of people who know the area. Again - thanks and, when I do make the leap, beers are on me...
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  18. #18
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    I Heard Horse **** is ....

    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    (it's horse **** for heaven's sake, not razor blades.)
    almost as bad as horse sh!t and that sh!t can be dangerous to your health. For example, I have heard stories about riders who were unable to avoid big piles of the stuff, rode through, the stuff (perhaps in undetectable particles) shot up into their faces and/or bottles/water nozzle and then these riders unintentionally consumed it. Then, they nearly died, or at least got very very sick, or in the least became disguted with themsleves (and perhaps others) and gave up riding completely. Bike wheels are very dangerous in this way. Once I was going so fast and producing so much energy in my wheels that a giant rock was projected onto my skull (I think the rock may also have been covered with undectectable horse **** or horse sh!t, not sure). I had a very bad headache and am not sure if it was the rock slamming into my skull or the horse sh!it.
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    Yea, but my dog never misses a chance to roll around in horse ****, and she's as healthy as a ox (or at least as healthy as a healthy dog). But then again, she also eats her own ****.

    I guess my only suggestion to you is, ride with a hockey helmet.

    How's the bike treating you?

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    Its great

    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    How's the bike treating you?
    Its great, awesome. 2 months and I still need to ride it though. Sounds like you have one tough dog. If I ever need a dog immune to horse patooty, I know who to call. You must tell me about your journey to the land of China.
    Last edited by Dirdir; 05-06-2004 at 11:34 AM.
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  21. #21
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    some other points;

    The prescott area (also known as tri-citys) has more population than flagstaff. I've been to flagstaff a lot of times, and I knew that while it might be bigger than just the town of prescott, there's no way it's bigger than prescott and prescott valley, or both of those and chino valley. All of these towns are in close proximaty, and you really can't tell on highway 69 where prescott valley stops, and prescott starts, just going by the building and such that is going on. Prescott Valley is still "exploding" at this time as well, so there's a lot of building going on and expansion.

    Flagstaff population (2000) 53,000

    Prescott (2000) 34,000
    Prescott Valley (2000) 24,000
    Chino Valley (2000) 9000

    I don't go to flagstaff enough to really monitor the building, but between 2000 and now there's be a LOT on the north side of Prescott and in Prescott valley, heck even in the few years that I've been here Prescott Valley looks completely different. It used to be a "cross" when viewed from the air, but it has changed due to all the houses that have went up. We have a nice mall and plethora of nice new restaurants though, mostly in Prescott Valley but a few in Prescott and in-between. If you like going out to a nice restaurant every week or every-once and a while, we not only have a hell-of-a-lot, but we also have a lot of real nice ones now, Johny Carinos, Oliver Garden, Garcias, Macayas(sp?), Red Robin, the list goes on and on, and these are just a few of the "new" ones.

    I'd like to thank PedalAZ for his comments about ERAU students, but we also have our share of "hippies" that go to Prescott City College sometimes we see them on hippie-busses heading out on senator highway. Not that there's a lot, but they are here. There's also a lot of crazy-bike-guys that ride around on bikes (like in my signature) and are pretty funny. One of them rides around with a car-battery in the frame because he claims he's developed some sort of perpetual motion machine (and it still needs a battery?) and he says that he is just "getting used to" pedaling around the weight of it. Even though we have whiskey row (a good number of saloons, some with music every weekend) and a couple clubs, I'd imagine that the bigger college-population in Flagstaff would have more/better ones, but we don't "lack" them. Prescott Brewing company is really cool.
    Last edited by Jm.; 05-06-2004 at 11:35 AM.
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    I have riden the trails in Prescott quite abit, and unless things have changed in the last 3 years, horses are not much of a problem. Really, there are only a few they use.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-dub
    I have riden the trails in Prescott quite abit, and unless things have changed in the last 3 years, horses are not much of a problem. Really, there are only a few they use.
    Hmm..not really, like if you want to put together a big loop, you are going to run across it. Anything that you ride in granite basin is going to have horse crap, the stuff around costco and spruce mtn and up trail 62 has horse crap a good amount of time time (and they don't give a sh*t when its wet either, i've never seen such trail destruction after wet-times). If you ride in Thumb Butte you probably wont encounter any, but I still have on white rock, and thumb butte is not the place where I'd put together a big all-day ride anyways.

    Maybe there are more horse-people up here now, but it is normal to encounter it on almost every ride. Maybe not on every trail that you ride on a big ride, but chances are you'll see it.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  24. #24
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    A bit more on Flagstaff

    Don't know why I didn't see this thread until just now -- probably too much riding and not enough time looking at the forum boards! I'll add a bit from a Flagstaff local (12 years) and MTBer...

    The posts that call Flag a bit more eco-crunchy than Prescott are on the mark. Flag leans left politically, though not hugely so. Locals pay a lot of attention to open spaces, dark skies, tree-cutting restrictions, and so forth. Most of the upcoming city council election hinges on all this, actually; it's very divided between moderately green incumbents and more pro-business challengers. By local politics standards, this election has become reasonably ugly. It will thankfully be over on May 18.

    The official population is, as quoted by another poster, about 53,000, but there are large unincorporated areas to the NE (I used to live out there), NW, and S that push the immediate population up to about 70,000. Because of these usually uncounted 17,000 folks, tourists, plus the main line of the Burlington Northern Santa Fe dividing the town in half and restricting street options, there are serious traffic issues. Just this past Wednesday, a tourist got smacked by a train on the downtown grade crossing (happens several times a year), and all was gridlock for the whole afternoon. Just miserable -- I got stuck in it. Regular blasts from the train whistles are just part of life here, and frankly I don't mind them.

    This is a very nasty town for a trailing spouse. There are a certain number of MA's and PhD's waiting tables because they came here with no job lined up, only to find out nothing was available. The Grand Canyon is 70 miles away, so there are zillions of tourists, and the main drag is, as someone poetically observed, a "ghastly" collection of motels and fast food joints. And, if you have kids, AZ school systems are generally underfunded, but there are lots of charter schools in Flag, one of which our kids are thriving in.

    Personally, though, I love it here. I've encountered horses just twice on the Mt. Elden trails in all my MTBing here, and they were quite polite when I yielded. Most other folks on bikes seem pretty nice, though you do meet the occasional Yahoo who thinks the trail revolves aroud him. The scenery is spectacular, and there is lots of intereting stuff: a museum, observatories, a symphony, an arboretum, a main branch of the US Geological Survey, NAU, a division of W. L Gore, a major regional medical center, lots of art galleries, and tons of singletrack. NAU students, by the way, are like those at any other university -- some are very nice, bright kids, and some are bums.

    The mountain biking is wonderful. For a rider of my decidedly intermediate abilities, the whole Elden area offers lots of singletrack that is fun to ride, and lots more that is a real challenge, at least by my standards (try riding up Upper Oldham). There are also hundreds of miles of forest roads, some very scenic, for when you just want to go out and spin for a long ways. I go out as much as work and family commitments allow, and never tire of it. At 7,000 feet, Flag is rather colder than Prescott, and the trails are pretty soggy for much of the winter, but hey, Sedona is only an hour away.

    Bottom line -- Flag has many strong points and many warts, like most places. I am a generally satisfied local. Post or PM if you want any more info. I grew up in the East, and my wife in CT, but we have really loved living in AZ, and have enjoyed visiting various places like Prescott, Phoenix, Tucson, etc. We moved to Flagstaff sight unseen in 1992 and got over the culture shock very rapidly!

    Good luck with your move, too...it's always a pain, I know.

  25. #25
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_FLG
    The official population is, as quoted by another poster, about 53,000, but there are large unincorporated areas to the NE (I used to live out there), NW, and S that push the immediate population up to about 70,000. Because of these usually uncounted 17,000 folks, tourists, plus the main line of the Burlington Northern Santa Fe dividing the town in half and restricting street options, there are serious traffic issues. Just this past Wednesday, a tourist got smacked by a train on the downtown grade crossing (happens several times a year), and all was gridlock for the whole afternoon. Just miserable -- I got stuck in it. Regular blasts from the train whistles are just part of life here, and frankly I don't mind them.

    .
    Hehe...well i didn't look up the populations of dewey, mayer, humbolt, perkinsville, and all the "outlying" areas either. Not to come off to negative (I love the mtb up in flag, it's a lot of fun, especially when it's in the 90s here), but flag is simply smaller, in size, and in businesses. PV is booming right now, Prescott is very well established with a lot going on to the north, and Chino is even building stuff and expanding. I like both places a lot, but when it comes down to it, and you've spend a while driving around both, the prescott-area is simply bigger.

    Besides, we all know that my town can beat up your town Of course we do have a LOT of really really old people...so we might loose in the end.
    Last edited by Jm.; 05-09-2004 at 08:47 PM.
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    Hehe...well i didn't look up the populations of dewey, mayer, humbolt, perkinsville, and all the "outlying" areas either. Not to come off to negative (I love the mtb up in flag, it's a lot of fun, especially when it's in the 90s here), but flag is simply smaller, in size, and in businesses. PV is booming right now, Prescott is very well established with a lot going on to the north, and Chino is even building stuff and expanding. I like both places a lot, but when it comes down to it, and you've spend a while driving around both, the prescott-area is simply bigger.

    Besides, we all know that my town can beat up your town Of course we do have a LOT of really really old people...so we might loose in the end.
    LOL, thanks for a good chuckle. Seriously, I wasn't looking for a mine-is-bigger contest, and if Flag does go up to 100,000 anytime soon, it's going to be gridlock every day rather than just occasionally -- not something I'd want to see. If the incumbents win next week, the PV-type boomers are going to have a fit!

    As far as the slugfest goes, fine, I'll put together some guitar-strumming crunchies and you collect the cane-wielding geezers, and we'll get them together in...ummm....what, Cottonwood? and let them duke it out....

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff_FLG
    LOL, thanks for a good chuckle. Seriously, I wasn't looking for a mine-is-bigger contest, and if Flag does go up to 100,000 anytime soon, it's going to be gridlock every day rather than just occasionally -- not something I'd want to see. If the incumbents win next week, the PV-type boomers are going to have a fit!

    As far as the slugfest goes, fine, I'll put together some guitar-strumming crunchies and you collect the cane-wielding geezers, and we'll get them together in...ummm....what, Cottonwood? and let them duke it out....
    yeah, let em duke it out in cottonwood when it's 110°
    I know in my heart that Ellsworth bikes are more durable by as much as double. AND they are all lighter...Tony Ellsworth

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