Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 151
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    56

    packing while riding

    Anyone else in the mode of not going anywhere unarmed? What is your chosen firearm and/or method of carry while riding?

    YMMV
    Lon

  2. #2
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by Teufelhunde
    Anyone else in the mode of not going anywhere unarmed? What is your chosen firearm and/or method of carry while riding?

    YMMV
    Lon
    1) I'd shoot myself in the arse when I plowed dirt. Trust me. I'm That Girl.

    2) Isn't it illegal to bring a firearm into a national or state park?

    I'd love to have an actual gun while doing some of my more isolated runs and rides, but I settle for my stun gun instead, for fear of getting in trouble.

    That said, what's the saying? "Judged by 12 or carried by 6"?
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  3. #3
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,989
    You'll find most here frown on gun talk. I do carry but it's not easily accessible for an immediate threat.

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,341
    I really can't ride well without packing.......bowls of green! lol

  5. #5
    oh Lucky me
    Reputation: Exodus11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    You'll find most here frown on gun talk. I do carry but it's not easily accessible for an immediate threat.

    ehh rubbish!!! i strap an AR-15 to my top tube every ride


    lol...
    ...Dying is the easy part, its living that's the challenge...

  6. #6
    Tucson, AZ
    Reputation: azepicriderandrunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,974
    I carry my glock in my water bottle cage spot. You can buy special adapted gun holders that screw into the frame. Pretty sweet. I just switch it over for each bike, ie commuter, mountain road, cruiser, etc.

  7. #7
    I'm Lazy, So I Shuttle
    Reputation: Greffster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    874
    probley one of the dumbest posts Ive seen in a while...but we r in the wild west yeehaa!!!
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    242
    I have when out by myself before. I stopped because my gun is just too bulky and heavy. When I did it was in its holster in my pack, so it wasnt quickly accesable but safe. I "need" a glock 27!!

  9. #9
    ~Disc~Golf~
    Reputation: highdelll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    16,492
    SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTT

    Another fukkin gun thread!!

    I was getting bored w/out one!!
    Thanks Teufelhunde!!
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation: BritMtnBiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    558
    For DC rides I like to strap a six foot potato launcher to my top tube and carry a 5 lb bag of organic pots in my camelback and a jumbo can of aqua net for propulsion. The extra weight helps in training plus no one messes with me in the washes.

  11. #11
    Five is right out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,174
    What we need is a bit of originality on a gun thread. How about a thread in the WW forum discussing the options for the weight concious rider? Titanium, drilled holes, ceramics... there's got to be something that hasn't been said before.

  12. #12
    How do I do that?
    Reputation: Tuff Gong's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    561
    I'm almost always ready to defend myself at a moments notice when I'm on the single track. Safety's always off and it takes all of .4 seconds for me to aim and fire.



    It took me a while to learn how to shift without accidently firing though

  13. #13
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,382
    Guns kill people.
    Ride more; post less...

  14. #14
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,382
    Quote Originally Posted by C Dunlop
    Teufelhunde, you should just skip all of the phallic imagery vagueness and get a will water pistol. Guns just scream latent.

    You can pack my heat anytime you want to.
    LMAO!! I just sprayed coffee on my monitor!!
    Ride more; post less...

  15. #15
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,989
    Told you.

  16. #16
    I'm Lazy, So I Shuttle
    Reputation: Greffster's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    874
    I dont need a Gun I have a Donk! (anyone name that one?)
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you'll crash.- Julie Furtado

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    200

    Just one!

    Quote Originally Posted by azepicriderandrunner
    I carry my glock in my water bottle cage spot. You can buy special adapted gun holders that screw into the frame. Pretty sweet. I just switch it over for each bike, ie commuter, mountain road, cruiser, etc.
    Wow, you only carry one gun when you ride, I can't believe you're so lax about your own safety. Myself, I carry my .357 w/ wadcutters (of course) for small annoyances, such as fixie riders and people who ride single speeds. Then theirs the 9mm w/ P++ (of course) for when six shots isn't enough, also my .44 cause anything less is frowned upon by my equals (other people carrying guns). I think that covers the handguns, I won't go into my long gun arsenal cause I don't want N0bama to know about those.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tmarkos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,362
    Quote Originally Posted by Greffster
    I dont need a Gun I have a Donk! (anyone name that one?)
    "That's incredible. Imagine seven million people all wanting to live together. Yeah, New York must be the friendliest place on earth."

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    207
    Lcr?

  20. #20
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Teufelhunde
    in the mode of not going anywhere unarmed?
    honest question - have you ever felt a gun would protect you on a bike, and if so, when? The only thing I've ever had to defend myself from was cars.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brianc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,040
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    honest question - have you ever felt a gun would protect you on a bike, and if so, when? The only thing I've ever had to defend myself from was cars.
    some of my New Mexico friends ride with scubba knives on their camel bak strap. Riding alone at night in remote mountain lion territory, they feel better know that if the cat misses and does not instanly snap their neck they can make the cat *think* about if it wants to make a second try.
    b

  22. #22
    Tucson, AZ
    Reputation: azepicriderandrunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    2,974
    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    some of my New Mexico friends ride with scubba knives on their camel bak strap. Riding alone at night in remote mountain lion territory, they feel better know that if the cat misses and does not instanly snap their neck they can make the cat *think* about if it wants to make a second try.
    Scott and I rode through one of the highest populated areas for mountain lions during the Grand Loop. The only reason I slept the night we slept in the area is because it was 4am and we had ridden 21 hours. That said, I always carry a knife on my Osprey Talon 22 while biking, it is pretty easy to grab since it is on a pocket on my chest.

    Pics and story here for those that are not familiar with the Grand Loop.

  23. #23
    bhc
    bhc is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    443
    Nobody could pack as much as Spike Bike. Remember him?

    http://linux.stevens-tech.edu/kmh/spike.bike.all.txt

  24. #24
    Dooosh!
    Reputation: BRA DOG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    140
    What are you going to shoot? The occasional lizard or snake we come across?

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: MattyBoyR6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,062
    Quote Originally Posted by C Dunlop
    Teufelhunde, were you bron retarded or have you put effort into becoming this way?

    When going to call someone a retard be sure to spell all words in your post correctly.
    Got Daytons on the Motha Ship - Cube

  26. #26
    Saucy Size
    Reputation: Paul B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,482
    Gun thread = cool

    Personal attacks = way uncool. Don't violate the guidelines and don't post angry.

    Have fun!

    p.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  27. #27
    pedaller
    Reputation: Noelg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,400
    excuse me, I thought this was the bike packing thread....

    my bad...

    where's the exit?

    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  28. #28
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    honest question - have you ever felt a gun would protect you on a bike, and if so, when? The only thing I've ever had to defend myself from was cars.
    *ahem*
    I have!
    I've been stalked twice, on Hawes no less. Followed, tracked, and photographed. If I'd branished more than my PMS snarl, guarantee McCreepy would have backed off. Sucks, but that's the world we live in.
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  29. #29
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,382
    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis
    If I'd branished more than my PMS snarl...
    No, that's all YOU need. Really.
    Ride more; post less...

  30. #30
    wrecking crew
    Reputation: su.ling~'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    1,392
    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis
    *ahem*
    I have!
    I've been stalked twice, on Hawes no less. Followed, tracked, and photographed. If I'd branished more than my PMS snarl, guarantee McCreepy would have backed off. Sucks, but that's the world we live in.
    Well, now see?!! If you were CoyoteUgly instead of CoyoteKis...
    Next time uglify yourself before going out!

    But seriously, that's pretty spooky stuff...
    ~~~

  31. #31
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,400
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    honest question - have you ever felt a gun would protect you on a bike, and if so, when? The only thing I've ever had to defend myself from was cars.
    Up on Sycamore rim some very agressive dogs made a run for me a few months ago. There was an owner who started going crazy trying to control them, but the dogs were running out way in front (couldn't even see the owner until much later). Nothing bad resulted in the end, but it was a lot more tense than 99.9% of all the ecounters I usually have. Usually you aren't in the middle of nowhere with a few dogs agressively barking and running right at you from several hundred yards away with what seems like full intent to tear you apart. I think enough riders and people can tell the difference between dogs that seem to be "playing" or not serious and ones that seem intent on causing injury. In the middle of nowhere I'm not going to take any chances.

    If I'm riding with anyone else, I'm probably not "packing", because I rely on that whole strength in numbers or "they'll go for the slowest person"

    This always gets to be a dumb topic because so many people are so against guns that they start calling names and saying things about the posters. Then there's the other extreme where people talk openly about bringing guns everywhere, especially when said gun is completely innapropriate for any kind of backcountry work. There are lots of small concealable guns that won't really do crap in the backcountry. There are lots of huge hand-cannons that would also be impractical. There are lots of people with unrealistic expectations about what they might actually be able to do with one.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  32. #32
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz
    No, that's all YOU need. Really.
    Oh you a Baller, now? Feeling brave, sitting behind your computer?

    "You little cockroaches... come on. You wanna play games? Okay, I play with you; come on. Okay. You wanna play rough? Okay. Say hello to my little friend!"
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tmarkos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,362
    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis
    *ahem*
    I have!
    I've been stalked twice, on Hawes no less. Followed, tracked, and photographed. If I'd branished more than my PMS snarl, guarantee McCreepy would have backed off. Sucks, but that's the world we live in.
    Hawes is a beautiful place, sure this person wasn't just taking pictures on the same trail? (Just saying')

  34. #34
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    Well, now see?!! If you were CoyoteUgly instead of CoyoteKis...
    Next time uglify yourself before going out!

    But seriously, that's pretty spooky stuff...
    lol You'd think the smell coming from my jersey, would do the trick.

    It was spooky. Very. I still wonder who the mtn bikers were that day, that "saved" me, and saw me safely back to the TH. After that experience is when I decided to get all Laura Croft and buy a stun gun. It may end being used on me someday (Jayem made a good point about being realistic about expectations on being able to use your weapon), but hey, it makes me feel better and keeps me on the trails.

    At the very least, nobody will be reaching for my beer.
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  35. #35
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by tmarkos
    Hawes is a beautiful place, sure this person wasn't just taking pictures on the same trail? (Just saying')
    That was my first thought. Gave him the benefit of the doubt. But once he was off-trail, trying to keep up with me, and pointing that camera at me from the bushes...? At one point, he started running, to keep up with me... I'm thinking it was the manicure... I have only myself to blame. (beat Walt to it)
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tmarkos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,362
    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis
    That was my first thought. Gave him the benefit of the doubt. But once he was off-trail, trying to keep up with me, and pointing that camera at me from the bushes...? At one point, he started running, to keep up with me... I'm thinking it was the manicure... I have only myself to blame. (beat Walt to it)
    Wow, freaky.

  37. #37
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,251
    Sometimes while riding at night out at Hawes....I feel stalked by folks watching me with their lights out and their oil-cans in hand......perhaps I should "pack" some salted pretzels to lay down on the trail in case I'm attacked? A mountain feedbag might be the appropriate holster for this....




  38. #38
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer
    Sometimes while riding at night out at Hawes....I feel stalked by folks watching me with their lights out and their oil-cans in hand......perhaps I should "pack" some salted pretzels to lay down on the trail in case I'm attacked? A mountain feedbag might be the appropriate holster for this....
    You've confused us with the 4:20 crowd; save the scooby snacks for them.
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  39. #39
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,220
    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis
    That was my first thought. Gave him the benefit of the doubt. But once he was off-trail, trying to keep up with me, and pointing that camera at me from the bushes...? At one point, he started running, to keep up with me... I'm thinking it was the manicure... I have only myself to blame. (beat Walt to it)
    my wife and her friend had a creepy similar story rodieing the Usery loop once, in broad daylight on a Sunday afternoon. I can't imagine having that BS hanging over my enjoyment of the outdoors, and I know it makes my wife a little less adventurous than me. *sucks*. I'm just not convinced that in those situations a gun is better than a knife or pepper spray or a stun gun. Combining lightweight, accessibility with reliability in all weather would seem to make some things more effective as defensive tools, and having something that is less powerful forces your weapon to be your absolute last resort. What bothers me about a topic like this is too many people feel that just packing will solve their problem. Packing also adds false empowerment and ups the stakes. For every responsible gun user, think about how mad people get cause someone was in their precious line coming down the Waterfall? You want someone blaming a crash on you and packing? Home defense is not the same as carrying on the trail - its more like bringing a concealed weapon into a restaurant. Yes there are good applications, but there are plenty of bad ones. Brian, Chad or Jayem's examples where the threat is wildlife make me much less nervous about getting caught up in some irresponsible gun owner's issues.

    Personally, I would never carry a gun on the roadie or commuter cause I know I have gotten more angry about near-miss bike\car situations than any car\car or trail conflicts I've ever had. Something about almost getting pancaked by some dip$h!t texting...a weapon combined with my temper would be a horrible idea.

    I'm sure this one is going to inflame some folks, so please feel free to reply but please keep it respectful.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  40. #40
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    my wife and her friend had a creepy similar story rodieing the Usery loop once, in broad daylight on a Sunday afternoon. I can't imagine having that BS hanging over my enjoyment of the outdoors, and I know it makes my wife a little less adventurous than me. *sucks*...... I'm just not convinced that in those situations a gun is better than a knife or pepper spray or a stun gun.
    Different world for women, always will be. Glad B was with a friend when it happened. Had to be some small comfort in that.

    As to your point, when I got my stun gun (which requires CONTACT with animal or person, it's not a taser, which Dateline proved is a bad choice for protection since your aim has to be pretty damned good) I got all full of myself and pumped, feeling invincible. To prove a point, my husb gave me a box cutter (blade in) and told me to try to "get him" with it. I swung it like I'd been shanking my whole life , and it took him less than a matter of seconds to bind my arms behind my back and squeeze my hand until I dropped it. And while a gun doesn't require contact, it does require a steady hand, right? That dq's me right there. Whatever, whomever, wherever, just gotta be smart, keep your eyes open, and let people know where you are.
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    27
    I find it interesting that some people feel as if it is wrong to be prepared to protect self and others in a legal, responsible way, yet somehow feel it is acceptable to be vulgar or swear in a public forum where children (and adults) are free to read and engage. How twisted is that?

    While I don't want anyone to have to learn first-hand how important it can be to have the ability to defend their life, I do wish they would show the insight to consider such possibilities or at least defend their opposing position in an adult-like fashion.

    For every one of you who is carrying in an educated and safe manner out on the trails and would be willing to protect me and my family, I thank you for that. For you, I would do the same. For the rest of you, I would also do the same.

    More on-topic, as a jogger, I prefer either the Glock 27 or a scandium-framed S&W 340PD. Neither of these rusts as a result of all of the sweat they are bathed in. Biking, I typically carry the 340PD. It is lightweight, small, and dependable. I still haven't found a satisfying carry-method, though. The hydration pack is convenient for carry, but decidedly inconvenient for access.

  42. #42
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    200

    I retract my previous snarky response

    I always forget how creepy some guys can get around pretty women. I fully support women arming themselves to the full extent of the law. Preferably with pictures.Thank you.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Kortface's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    328
    I've never packed while riding, but I always carry a dive knive. anyone that jumps me is gonna get that baby in the chest!!

    .
    Eating meat is murder, yummy yummy murder!!

  44. #44
    oh Lucky me
    Reputation: Exodus11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    705
    yeah, i agree, a dive knife is ALL you need unless like mentioned, you are on an extended back country adventure....then....i think a USP or HK .45 and a quick trigger finger would get you out of just about any life threating situation.
    ...Dying is the easy part, its living that's the challenge...

  45. #45
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus11
    i think a USP or HK .45 and a quick trigger finger would get you out of just about any life threating situation.
    A USP is an HK, although I guess they make a few others that are not USPs (P-series, compact USPs and the ones based on em).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Tom93R1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    508
    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide_1
    Biking, I typically carry the 340PD. It is lightweight, small, and dependable. I still haven't found a satisfying carry-method, though. The hydration pack is convenient for carry, but decidedly inconvenient for access.
    That's my carry weapon (well the SC instead of PD), but I don't know any good way to pack it while running or biking so for now I don't. What holster do you use for jogging?

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    246

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,044
    I carry all the time and have all my life------( I am eating breakfast with my 3040PD in my waist band right now) , ---you just do not know what you might walk or ride into.

    I have never had to use my sidearm here in the states , --(well one time at a tucson ATM I pulled my shirt back and exsposed my Government 45 to scare off a criminal that thought I would fold like a soft taco, ---He about craped his paints )------but I would rather have it and never need it than to need it and not have it .

    I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6

  49. #49
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by C Dunlop
    Okay NOW I'm offended.

    Still do the dishes at the end of the day???

    Hell no, we point the gun at the Mister and make HIM do the dishes.
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  50. #50
    banned
    Reputation: JrockFeltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,748
    I just packed a bowl of Jack herer x skunk # 1.

    If I'm going backpacking solo or something of the like I'll carry my gun, but I don't see the need to take it on a Somo morning ride.

  51. #51
    MoabMonster
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    83
    Yea, I like to carry Colt .45 when riding to ice: Cattle on the Trail
    Forrest Circus Rangers
    XC riders climbing up dedicated DH trails

  52. #52
    I'm with stupid -------->
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    390
    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide_1
    I find it interesting that some people feel as if it is wrong to be prepared to protect self and others in a legal, responsible way, yet somehow feel it is acceptable to be vulgar or swear in a public forum where children (and adults) are free to read and engage. How twisted is that?
    I find foul language to be less of an endangerment toward my child's well being than I do handguns.

    I wish nobody had handguns, and I always speak with my vote. However, until this ideology becomes the majority I respect your rights. I hope none of you ever have to use them.

    Those saying they carry in the backcountry; I find people to be much more of a threat than I do wild animals. My 2 cents.

  53. #53
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,238
    I have no problem with responsible people carrying weapons but really don't see the benefit of doing so when riding.

  54. #54
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,238
    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    ------( I am eating breakfast with my 3040PD in my waist band right now) , ---you just do not know what you might walk or ride into.
    cereal thieves are getting bolder every day

  55. #55
    Pedaler of dirt
    Reputation: marzjennings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    902
    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide_1
    I find it interesting that some people feel as if it is wrong to be prepared to protect self and others in a legal, responsible way, yet somehow feel it is acceptable to be vulgar or swear in a public forum where children (and adults) are free to read and engage. How twisted is that?.
    Just because something is legal doesn't stop it from being stupid. Smoking is still legal and yet stupid all at the same time.

    'Responsible gun owner' is such a complete oxymoron.
    It's not enough that we do our best; sometimes we have to do what's required.

  56. #56
    AKA shitbird
    Reputation: eabos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,342
    Rather than have one more thing to carry around I think about the reality of everyday life. There is a VERY slim chance that anyone carrying a gun will EVER

    A.) be in the situtation to use where it is needed for self defense

    B.) be able to access the gun quick enough to make a difference

    C.) be able to pull the gun when threatened and not intesify the "situation" adding risk to everyone involved.

    To expand point C.), take this example, bad guy just wanted your money, now he sees you reaching for a gun and feels his life threatened. Now he is forced to make a live or die decision in a split second......better hope you have more practice with your gun than bad dude does with his.

    On the other hand, bad dude might have left you alone in the first place if he saw the gun on your hip. Seems like openly carrying makes for sense than concealing your weapon.

    Gun people can have all the guns they want, fine with me. It's just my choice not to bother with carrying guns.
    JRA

  57. #57
    oh Lucky me
    Reputation: Exodus11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    705
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    A USP is an HK, although I guess they make a few others that are not USPs (P-series, compact USPs and the ones based on em).

    thanks for the clarification...i actually dont even own a gun, but i do like shooting the sh!t out of stuff
    ...Dying is the easy part, its living that's the challenge...

  58. #58
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by jdpowers

    Those saying they carry in the backcountry; I find people to be much more of a threat than I do wild animals. My 2 cents.
    Every bad experience I've had on the trails, or in my own community, has involved people, not animals.

    On the subject of guns, what about paintball guns? A fun, recreational thing that people enjoy, right? Well 3 years ago I got to ENJOY the experience of paintball, while going for a run one summer night. Mischievous teenagers who decided to shoot up anything with a heartbeat, that happened to be out that night. I done-got shot-up in a drive-by paintballing.

    Here I am, stripped of dignity (and make-up- heh), annoyed and on my way to feeling more amused than enraged. And okay, no big deal, in that I got a story and a C-shaped scar out of it (I am now branded C for Coyote), and they missed my EYEBALL... but my point is that the intent to harm or harass another person, whether done with bare hands, a knife, a gun, or a paintball gun, will remain, regardless of chosen weapon. That's people for ya! Rotten, finds a way, regardless of gun laws.

    To piggy-back Chollaball's admission that a gun and road rage would not be a good combination for him, the truth is, that night, when I got home, I was so enraged, that I grabbed my keys and went looking for the teens in the car, just hoping they were still around. Why? Not because they shot me, but because they shot at my EIGHT YEAR OLD son, who was riding his bike next to me. Momma Bear came out, and I had EVERY intention of finding those punks. What I'd have DONE when I found them, I don't know. Probably just yelled and cried and spit or something.

    The police man who took the report, while admiring my Harley, told me that as a woman who spends a great deal of time alone in isolated areas, it would be a GOOD idea for me to be armed. He then joked that given my penchant for vigilante behavior, maybe he was wrong. He was right on BOTH accounts. He mock-joked "calling in" a report that "Ms G had once again capped a civilian", but what if he wasn't so far from the truth? What if in a moment of misguided fear, or rage, I actually killed another person?

    I guess this thread has made something clear to me, which is that I am pro-gun in the home for protection, but no longer so sure that everyone (I mean myself) (and Jason- lol) is cut-out for carrying at all times. Complex subject, that has made me think.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  59. #59
    AKA shitbird
    Reputation: eabos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,342
    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis

    I guess this thread has made something clear to me, which is that I am pro-gun in the home for protection, but no longer so sure that everyone (I mean myself) (and Jason- lol) is cut-out for carrying at all times. Complex subject, that has made me think.
    Add me to your list. I can say for certain that I would have gotten a flat or broken a chain, got mad and ended up shooting my bike. Regrettably this would be a recurring incident.

    Oh, daaaaymn, paintballs HURT! Kinda scary where they hit you, could have easily been your eye that was hit....or worse yet your mouth, I bet that paint tastes gross
    JRA

  60. #60
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by eabos
    Add me to your list. I can say for certain that I would have gotten a flat or broken a chain, got mad and ended up shooting my bike. Regrettably this would be a recurring incident.

    Oh, daaaaymn, paintballs HURT! Kinda scary where they hit you, could have easily been your eye that was hit....or worse yet your mouth, I bet that paint tastes gross
    LMAO! Oh jeez, you just made the argument for half the guys I ride with to be banned from packing, due to the risk of ricochet.

    The worst part (son aside) from the experience, was that the paintball went THROUGH MY NEW NIKE TOP!!! 12 inches from my wee eyeball, and yeah, darn straight it hurt. Knocked the wind out of me. This was one week before the Valley Snipers were caught. I thought I'd been shot, until before seeing the real blood, I saw the "blood" was pink. I was like, "I bleed pink? That is my dying disgrace! I hate pink!" ;-)
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  61. #61
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,400
    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz

    If I'm going backpacking solo or something of the like I'll carry my gun, but I don't see the need to take it on a Somo morning ride.
    What about for the Waterfall?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  62. #62
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,400
    Quote Originally Posted by jdpowers

    Those saying they carry in the backcountry; I find people to be much more of a threat than I do wild animals. My 2 cents.
    Who said it was only animals that we're concerned about?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  63. #63
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,382
    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis
    The worst part (son aside) from the experience, was that the paintball went THROUGH MY NEW NIKE TOP!!! 12 inches from my wee eyeball, and yeah, darn straight it hurt. Knocked the wind out of me. This was one week before the Valley Snipers were caught. I thought I'd been shot, until before seeing the real blood, I saw the "blood" was pink. I was like, "I bleed pink? That is my dying disgrace! I hate pink!" ;-)
    Deanna's thought process:
    1. NOT THE SON!
    2. NOT THE FACE!
    3. NOT THE NAILS!

    And face it, you like the scar...it gives you "cred"...
    Ride more; post less...

  64. #64
    AKA shitbird
    Reputation: eabos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,342
    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis
    LMAO! Oh jeez, you just made the argument for half the guys I ride with to be banned from packing, due to the risk of ricochet.

    The worst part (son aside) from the experience, was that the paintball went THROUGH MY NEW NIKE TOP!!! 12 inches from my wee eyeball, and yeah, darn straight it hurt. Knocked the wind out of me. This was one week before the Valley Snipers were caught. I thought I'd been shot, until before seeing the real blood, I saw the "blood" was pink. I was like, "I bleed pink? That is my dying disgrace! I hate pink!" ;-)

    those things hurt like hell! One day I knocked on my freinds door, he said "come in" as soon as I took a step in...BLAM, I'm laying on floor with green paint on my chest...fun

    Oh and the blood? Nothing to be ashamed of, there are several guys who post here that I'm sure bleed pink . I shouldn't mention who though






    ............lostboyz, pwrtrainer, and of course doodooboi.
    JRA

  65. #65
    I'm with stupid -------->
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    390
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Who said it was only animals that we're concerned about?
    Hillbillies with banjos (Deliverance)? Camp grounds are the scariest place on earth if you ask me; back country locations always leave me feeling safe. Maybe I am just naive/ignorant.

  66. #66
    banned
    Reputation: JrockFeltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,748
    Hunting, home and personal protection are responsible ownership.

    Sorry, if somebody breaks into my home they are getting shot. Traveling alone in remote places also is acceptable.

    We as a society are obsessed with violence. Canada I think has more guns and a fraction of the shootings. While I agree that not everybody is fit for gun ownership, guns are not the problem.

  67. #67
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    30,400
    Unfortunately you can "turn up" a lot of those paintball guns (for faster velocity) and make them a lot more dangerous than they are supposed to be. I've heard of people freezing the paintballs as well. Very nasty.

    All the hardcore paintballers seem to think that the game is like being in the Army or conducting some sort of tactical operations. I've played paintball, and I was in the Army. Paintball is nothing like doing a patrol in the Army.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation: REDGT's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    93
    Ouch Paint balls on soft skin hurts like H.E.doulbetoothpicks.

    But as much as I carry a gun I would never take it biking, to me it takes to long to get it out of my pack to do any good.
    Last edited by REDGT; 08-18-2009 at 10:53 AM.

  69. #69
    AKA shitbird
    Reputation: eabos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,342
    Quote Originally Posted by jdpowers
    Hillbillies with banjos (Deliverance)? Camp grounds are the scariest place on earth if you ask me; back country locations always leave me feeling safe. Maybe I am just naive/ignorant.

    I'm with ya on that one.

    And when it comes to animals, is there really a more manly way to go than to to die fighting a bear in hand to paw combat?!

    If they find a gun carrying mtbiker mauled by a bear people will be like "he had a gun but 11 shots just wasn't enough".

    If they find me half eaten, they will say "damn, look at this mutha f'er, he even took his gloves and helmet off to fight the bear like a real man!"
    JRA

  70. #70
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,989
    Those of you -- thankfully, most of you -- that have never been put in the position of having to defend either your life or the lives of others should be thankful. You're living the good life. However, just because you haven't had that experience doesn't mean others don't. You shouldn't discount experiences just because they're different or foreign from your own.

    That said, of course, a handgun is not an instant recipe for safety and it doesn't necessarily solve your problems. Most people simply don't have the time or inclination to go through the level of practice it takes to be combat effective.

  71. #71
    AKA shitbird
    Reputation: eabos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,342
    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    Those of you -- thankfully, most of you -- that have never been put in the position of having to defend either your life or the lives of others should be thankful. You're living the good life. However, just because you haven't had that experience doesn't mean others don't. You shouldn't discount experiences just because they're different or foreign from your own.

    That said, of course, a handgun is not an instant recipe for safety and it doesn't necessarily solve your problems. Most people simply don't have the time or inclination to go through the level of practice it takes to be combat effective.
    Actually I have been in such a position, I was robbed by gunpoint (gun in mouth / at head) when I first moved to AZ. After that my Dad urged me to carry a gun, even offered to purchase one for me. His logic was that if I had a gun I could have defended my self better in that situation. My thought was that if I would have had a gun I DEFINITELY would have pulled it. At that point one of two things would have hapened, he would have shot me or I would have shot him. Either one of those scenarios would have been worse than what actually happened; I lost my wallet, my new BB shoes, and got a little gash on my forehead. For the record I did try to fight back but I was outnumbered 5 to 1.

    As far as time and inclination to learn how to shoot, not the case for everyone. I have been shooting many times, have shot many guns, and know a thing or two about them. For me, having a gun just isn't important as I see little need for it personally. I'd get much more use and enjoyment out of a new fork or wheelset.

    Maybe somebody will meet me in the parking lot tonight and decide it's my time to die, maybe I can fight him off without a weapon, maybe not. Either way I'm not gonna be paranoid about it. $hit happens

    Nothing against those who carry though at all. It's your right.
    JRA

  72. #72
    banned
    Reputation: cesslinger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1,111
    My vote would be the S&W 500 snub nose with the rock salt rounds. It is scary looking and when you do shoot someone they won't die but will remember the sound and pain for the rest of their life. Otherwise, I am a fan of self defense with the closest rock that I can find; nearly endless ammo. Sling shot with cholla balls?

  73. #73
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,989
    Quote Originally Posted by eabos
    Actually I have been in such a position, I was robbed by gunpoint (gun in mouth / at head) when I first moved to AZ. After that my Dad urged me to carry a gun, even offered to purchase one for me. His logic was that if I had a gun I could have defended my self better in that situation. My thought was that if I would have had a gun I DEFINITELY would have pulled it. At that point one of two things would have hapened, he would have shot me or I would have shot him. Either one of those scenarios would have been worse than what actually happened; I lost my wallet, my new BB shoes, and got a little gash on my forehead. For the record I did try to fight back but I was outnumbered 5 to 1.

    As far as time and inclination to learn how to shoot, not the case for everyone. I have been shooting many times, have shot many guns, and know a thing or two about them. For me, having a gun just isn't important as I see little need for it personally. I'd get much more use and enjoyment out of a new fork or wheelset.

    Maybe somebody will meet me in the parking lot tonight and decide it's my time to die, maybe I can fight him off without a weapon, maybe not. Either way I'm not gonna be paranoid about it. $hit happens

    Nothing against those who carry though at all. It's your right.
    Sorry you had that experience. It changes your life.

    My point about training obviously wasn't directed at you or anyone in particular. The larger point was: Being able to accurately shoot a handgun, even on a static "square-range," is difficult. Add to that the dynamics of a real-life gunfight (deploying the weapon, moving, getting accurate rounds downrange) and simply carrying a weapon doesn't necessarily make you safe.

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by eabos
    Rather than have one more thing to carry around I think about the reality of everyday life. There is a VERY slim chance that anyone carrying a gun will EVER

    A.) be in the situtation to use where it is needed for self defense

    B.) be able to access the gun quick enough to make a difference

    C.) be able to pull the gun when threatened and not intesify the "situation" adding risk to everyone involved.

    To expand point C.), take this example, bad guy just wanted your money, now he sees you reaching for a gun and feels his life threatened. Now he is forced to make a live or die decision in a split second......better hope you have more practice with your gun than bad dude does with his.

    On the other hand, bad dude might have left you alone in the first place if he saw the gun on your hip. Seems like openly carrying makes for sense than concealing your weapon.

    Gun people can have all the guns they want, fine with me. It's just my choice not to bother with carrying guns.
    Thanks for a reasonable response. I think all of your points are valid. I also think very highly of the guy who said that he doesn't carry because of his temperament. Relative to point C, I think that you are spot-on with the potential to intensify a situation from one that could have meant only the loss of a few dollars to one that means the loss of a life (yours or the criminal's). If you lose a few bucks (or even thousands) it definitely makes for a crummy day, but in my opinion (probably similar to your take on the situation) does not warrant taking another's life. So, pulling a gun on someone committing a crime against is often not the best choice, in my opinion. Sometimes, I think it is. There are obvious loopholes such as, what if the perp accidentally saw your firearm even though you were just reaching for your wallet to give him what he wanted, etc., etc. Even with our best intentions and most planned-for situations, things can go wrong or unexpectedly. I definitely feel that a component of "responsible" gun ownership is making sure that you are well trained and familiar with the use of your firearm. Not that you can be positive that you will be better trained than every bad guy out there or, even if you are better trained, that the situation will be appropriate for or allow for effective use of your firearm.

    I totally respect your choice not to carry a firearm. I think that it is fair to say that a very large number of people among us should not carry them. It is something that I personally take very seriously. I have a male family member who was the victim of sexual assault by another man. Two of my sisters have experienced attempted abductions. One was at a public, middle-class high school. The other was on her campus in broad daylight at her high-end private university. I could go on and on, but have probably already been too personal for this forum. One of my points is that bad things can happen to good people. I don't think that shooting someone over a wallet is reasonable. I can assure you that I would feel justified in shooting someone if needed to avoid abduction and/or sexual assault. As someone who has committed a great deal of time to practicing with firearms and giving thought to their proper use, I feel very strongly about not losing my right to defend myself and others with them.

    Related to open carry, I have very mixed feelings. I agree that open carry has the potential to avert plenty of could-have-been-bad situations. I also have concern for bad things that can happen as a result of everyone knowing that someone else is armed. I don't often open carry, but recently did and regretted it. I was in the check-out line at a hardware store when the man ahead of me began to chew-out the teenage girl working the register. In my mind, he was clearly in the wrong and behaving inappropriately. I tried to respectfully bail her out of the re, myself. Part of the exchange involved him commenting on the gun on my hip. I felt like both he and I were much more vulnerable in multiple ways, due to my open carry. Among other things, it can definitely send an unintended message to people. In the end, I needed to adjust my approach to the situation. In my ideal world, I don't feel like I did a thing wrong. Unfortunately, my ideal world exists only in my mind. Even though I don't feel like my open carry of a firearm should make others feel uncomfortable, the fact remains that it can and many times will. The situation was really no big deal, brief, and didn't escalate. There was no stand-off or near-fight or any such thing. However, it is easy for me to imagine how one or two variables could have changed the outcome in a significantly bad way, related to the fact that the other person saw a gun on my hip (and related to the fact that I decided to engage him while I was doing so, etc.). Even though I technically/legally did nothing wrong, I regret my decision to open carry that day. I also regret my decision to interfere with someone else's argument while doing so, even if it was respectful, etc., etc. In the future, I do not plan to put myself in a similar situation. I think one of the easiest ways for me to accomplish that will be not to openly carry. I could also butt-out of others' conflicts when it is not life-and-death, and so on. In the end, I didn't like the dynamics of the situation and plan to change my approach to carrying a firearm as a result of that.

    Tom93R1, I use an elastic belly band holster for jogging and hike it up across my lower chest so that it isn't bouncing around and banging into my iliac crest, but is low-enough that my arm isn't hitting it with every step. Unfortunately, it makes my run a little warmer and prevents me from taking my shirt off (although, now that I live in an open-carry state, taking my shirt off is at least a legal option). I still haven't found a reasonable (accessible) way to carry on my bike.

  75. #75
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,220
    eabos, Blatant - we would all appreciate if you would follow the playbook of the NRA and only engage in "With us or against us" rhetoric. Your shades of grey are making my melon hurt.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  76. #76
    No Clue Crew
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5,989
    Rip: Fantastic, reasoned response. Thank you.

    Jason: I see your raise and re-raise with the following: "All of us, against chollaball."

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8
    donk is from crocidile dune dee

  78. #78
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    Rip: Fantastic, reasoned response. Thank you.
    +1. if everyone was this thoughtful, this would not be an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    Jason: I see your raise and re-raise with the following: "All of us, against chollaball."
    all of you?! I might need me an AR-15.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  79. #79
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by marzjennings
    Just because something is legal doesn't stop it from being stupid. Smoking is still legal and yet stupid all at the same time.

    'Responsible gun owner' is such a complete oxymoron.
    I take personal offense to that. I've been a gun owner since I've been 16. I own hunting firearms. They are used for hunting and at appropriate facilities to practice before the hunting season to ensure I make a clean, humane shot when hunting. When not in use, they are dismantled, locked up and stored in a locked cabinet. I've had military level training in safe handling procedures as a youth to the level I was able to instruct others and was known for my safe handling practices and the respect I demanded of every student handling a rifle in my presence. I do not carry a side arm, mainly because it's Canada and I don't need the hassle of getting a carry license and am not a fan of being charged with illegal possession if I did carry one on a trail. Please explain to me how you feel I am not a responsible gun owner, because I would like to know.

  80. #80
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,238

  81. #81
    AKA shitbird
    Reputation: eabos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,342
    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide_1
    Thanks for a reasonable response. I think all of your points are valid. I also think very highly of the guy who said that he doesn't carry because of his temperament. Relative to point C, I think that you are spot-on with the potential to intensify a situation from one that could have meant only the loss of a few dollars to one that means the loss of a life (yours or the criminal's). If you lose a few bucks (or even thousands) it definitely makes for a crummy day, but in my opinion (probably similar to your take on the situation) does not warrant taking another's life. So, pulling a gun on someone committing a crime against is often not the best choice, in my opinion. Sometimes, I think it is. There are obvious loopholes such as, what if the perp accidentally saw your firearm even though you were just reaching for your wallet to give him what he wanted, etc., etc. Even with our best intentions and most planned-for situations, things can go wrong or unexpectedly. I definitely feel that a component of "responsible" gun ownership is making sure that you are well trained and familiar with the use of your firearm. Not that you can be positive that you will be better trained than every bad guy out there or, even if you are better trained, that the situation will be appropriate for or allow for effective use of your firearm.

    I totally respect your choice not to carry a firearm. I think that it is fair to say that a very large number of people among us should not carry them. It is something that I personally take very seriously. I have a male family member who was the victim of sexual assault by another man. Two of my sisters have experienced attempted abductions. One was at a public, middle-class high school. The other was on her campus in broad daylight at her high-end private university. I could go on and on, but have probably already been too personal for this forum. One of my points is that bad things can happen to good people. I don't think that shooting someone over a wallet is reasonable. I can assure you that I would feel justified in shooting someone if needed to avoid abduction and/or sexual assault. As someone who has committed a great deal of time to practicing with firearms and giving thought to their proper use, I feel very strongly about not losing my right to defend myself and others with them.

    Related to open carry, I have very mixed feelings. I agree that open carry has the potential to avert plenty of could-have-been-bad situations. I also have concern for bad things that can happen as a result of everyone knowing that someone else is armed. I don't often open carry, but recently did and regretted it. I was in the check-out line at a hardware store when the man ahead of me began to chew-out the teenage girl working the register. In my mind, he was clearly in the wrong and behaving inappropriately. I tried to respectfully bail her out of the re, myself. Part of the exchange involved him commenting on the gun on my hip. I felt like both he and I were much more vulnerable in multiple ways, due to my open carry. Among other things, it can definitely send an unintended message to people. In the end, I needed to adjust my approach to the situation. In my ideal world, I don't feel like I did a thing wrong. Unfortunately, my ideal world exists only in my mind. Even though I don't feel like my open carry of a firearm should make others feel uncomfortable, the fact remains that it can and many times will. The situation was really no big deal, brief, and didn't escalate. There was no stand-off or near-fight or any such thing. However, it is easy for me to imagine how one or two variables could have changed the outcome in a significantly bad way, related to the fact that the other person saw a gun on my hip (and related to the fact that I decided to engage him while I was doing so, etc.). Even though I technically/legally did nothing wrong, I regret my decision to open carry that day. I also regret my decision to interfere with someone else's argument while doing so, even if it was respectful, etc., etc. In the future, I do not plan to put myself in a similar situation. I think one of the easiest ways for me to accomplish that will be not to openly carry. I could also butt-out of others' conflicts when it is not life-and-death, and so on. In the end, I didn't like the dynamics of the situation and plan to change my approach to carrying a firearm as a result of that.

    Tom93R1, I use an elastic belly band holster for jogging and hike it up across my lower chest so that it isn't bouncing around and banging into my iliac crest, but is low-enough that my arm isn't hitting it with every step. Unfortunately, it makes my run a little warmer and prevents me from taking my shirt off (although, now that I live in an open-carry state, taking my shirt off is at least a legal option). I still haven't found a reasonable (accessible) way to carry on my bike.
    Great response and I totally "get" what you're saying. You sound like a completely reasonable person, I just hope that others share similar insight. The people that I worry about carrying guns are the ones like the guy in front of you in line or the guys who get enraged on the freeway. Even knowing that those people exist I still believe that everyone (regardless of temperment) should be allowed to own weapons if they choose. Hopefully those who do carry are even tempered and not prone to making rash decisions in moments of panic. Carrying while riding though? That I just don't get, but to each his own I guess.

    To make a good pro-gun arguement, having a gun on hand while you are witnessing a crime in progress could be a VERY good thing.
    JRA

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    2,044
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    cereal thieves are getting bolder every day
    Good one Phillbo , you got me on that one --------I guess I am a cereal thief------I just love steeling as many bowles of Granola as I can

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    242
    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide_1
    Thanks for a reasonable response. I think all of your points are valid. I also think very highly of the guy who said that he doesn't carry because of his temperament. Relative to point C, I think that you are spot-on with the potential to intensify a situation from one that could have meant only the loss of a few dollars to one that means the loss of a life (yours or the criminal's). If you lose a few bucks (or even thousands) it definitely makes for a crummy day, but in my opinion (probably similar to your take on the situation) does not warrant taking another's life. So, pulling a gun on someone committing a crime against is often not the best choice, in my opinion. Sometimes, I think it is. There are obvious loopholes such as, what if the perp accidentally saw your firearm even though you were just reaching for your wallet to give him what he wanted, etc., etc. Even with our best intentions and most planned-for situations, things can go wrong or unexpectedly. I definitely feel that a component of "responsible" gun ownership is making sure that you are well trained and familiar with the use of your firearm. Not that you can be positive that you will be better trained than every bad guy out there or, even if you are better trained, that the situation will be appropriate for or allow for effective use of your firearm.

    I totally respect your choice not to carry a firearm. I think that it is fair to say that a very large number of people among us should not carry them. It is something that I personally take very seriously. I have a male family member who was the victim of sexual assault by another man. Two of my sisters have experienced attempted abductions. One was at a public, middle-class high school. The other was on her campus in broad daylight at her high-end private university. I could go on and on, but have probably already been too personal for this forum. One of my points is that bad things can happen to good people. I don't think that shooting someone over a wallet is reasonable. I can assure you that I would feel justified in shooting someone if needed to avoid abduction and/or sexual assault. As someone who has committed a great deal of time to practicing with firearms and giving thought to their proper use, I feel very strongly about not losing my right to defend myself and others with them.

    Related to open carry, I have very mixed feelings. I agree that open carry has the potential to avert plenty of could-have-been-bad situations. I also have concern for bad things that can happen as a result of everyone knowing that someone else is armed. I don't often open carry, but recently did and regretted it. I was in the check-out line at a hardware store when the man ahead of me began to chew-out the teenage girl working the register. In my mind, he was clearly in the wrong and behaving inappropriately. I tried to respectfully bail her out of the re, myself. Part of the exchange involved him commenting on the gun on my hip. I felt like both he and I were much more vulnerable in multiple ways, due to my open carry. Among other things, it can definitely send an unintended message to people. In the end, I needed to adjust my approach to the situation. In my ideal world, I don't feel like I did a thing wrong. Unfortunately, my ideal world exists only in my mind. Even though I don't feel like my open carry of a firearm should make others feel uncomfortable, the fact remains that it can and many times will. The situation was really no big deal, brief, and didn't escalate. There was no stand-off or near-fight or any such thing. However, it is easy for me to imagine how one or two variables could have changed the outcome in a significantly bad way, related to the fact that the other person saw a gun on my hip (and related to the fact that I decided to engage him while I was doing so, etc.). Even though I technically/legally did nothing wrong, I regret my decision to open carry that day. I also regret my decision to interfere with someone else's argument while doing so, even if it was respectful, etc., etc. In the future, I do not plan to put myself in a similar situation. I think one of the easiest ways for me to accomplish that will be not to openly carry. I could also butt-out of others' conflicts when it is not life-and-death, and so on. In the end, I didn't like the dynamics of the situation and plan to change my approach to carrying a firearm as a result of that.

    Tom93R1, I use an elastic belly band holster for jogging and hike it up across my lower chest so that it isn't bouncing around and banging into my iliac crest, but is low-enough that my arm isn't hitting it with every step. Unfortunately, it makes my run a little warmer and prevents me from taking my shirt off (although, now that I live in an open-carry state, taking my shirt off is at least a legal option). I still haven't found a reasonable (accessible) way to carry on my bike.
    VERY well said!!

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    11
    I live in California... I'm not allowed to protect myself.

    I'm looking at commuting on my bike, and one of the ways home (at Midnight) would be over a bridge that has seen its share of vandals and thugs at that time of night... I would rather avoid it; but if necessary I am willing to keep my Sig P229 under my windbreaker.

    Its good protection against animals, both the 2 legged and 4 legged kind. There is no thug that is immune to a double tap to the center of mass.

  85. #85
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    11
    In California it is legal to UOC (Unloaded Open Carry), this is the best we have. There are certain stipulations to carrying that way; you can't go within 1000 feet of any school, you cant go into a govt building etc.

    The nice part is the courts have decided that a firearm is unloaded and open carried when it is visible and readily identifiable as a firearm, so having it in a holster is just fine. You are allowed to have loaded magazines on your person.

    There is a lot of tension from some when they see you UOC in public (or private -- like the grocery store) and there are regular visits from the police when you have a pistol strapped to your side. (Edit: Most just end up as a 12031pc unloaded firearm check -- they tend to run the numbers on the gun as well) Unfortunately for us, in a "may issue" state, this is the best option for high level self defense with a firearm.

    If California goes "shall issue" and starts handing out CCWs... then I would see absolutely no reason to open carry.

  86. #86
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by eabos
    I'm with ya on that one.

    And when it comes to animals, is there really a more manly way to go than to to die fighting a bear in hand to paw combat?!

    If they find a gun carrying mtbiker mauled by a bear people will be like "he had a gun but 11 shots just wasn't enough".

    If they find me half eaten, they will say "damn, look at this mutha f'er, he even took his gloves and helmet off to fight the bear like a real man!"
    "It was a respectable death" (Legends of The Fall)...
    Brad Pitt's character went out exactly like that, and just look at him! He got Angelina Jolie!
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  87. #87
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by REDGT
    Ouch Paint balls on soft skin hurts like H.E.doulbetoothpicks.
    Before that incident, I'd always had an interest in going to one of those paintball mazes. Not any more. Should have seen the poor guy who was riding his bike. They got him, like, 5-6 times in the back.
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  88. #88
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz
    Deanna's thought process:
    1. NOT THE SON!
    2. NOT THE FACE!
    3. NOT THE NAILS!

    And face it, you like the scar...it gives you "cred"...
    You pegged me. It's like you're in my head or something... like in Fight Club. Are you my alter ego? Are you Coyote Kismet's smirking revenge?
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  89. #89
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by eabos
    those things hurt like hell! One day I knocked on my freinds door, he said "come in" as soon as I took a step in...BLAM, I'm laying on floor with green paint on my chest...fun
    You need new friends!! lol
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  90. #90
    aka Diesel
    Reputation: CoyoteKis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    1,249
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Unfortunately you can "turn up" a lot of those paintball guns (for faster velocity) and make them a lot more dangerous than they are supposed to be. I've heard of people freezing the paintballs as well. Very nasty.
    These weren't frozen (omg... makes me shudder to think), but whatever gun they used, shot multiple rounds FAST. I was jogging against traffic in the bike lane, and saw a car speeding down the hill towards me. I moved into the gutter and motioned for my son to "get a load of the moron driving without his lights on". Just as they got to me, the lights blazed on, and I saw a blonde haired kid slide a barrel out of the window and the pop of several shots being fired, fast. There were splats against the cinderblock wall behind me, the tree next to me, and worst of all, there were two splats on my son's bike. I'll never forget the sound of him crying, thinking I'd been shot by the Valley Snipers, as I bent over trying to catch my breath. Makes me furious just thinking about.

    The policeman who took the report, told me that on his beat, there had been over 600 paintball assaults (and yes, it is considered an assault) in SIX MONTHS. 600!!! Said that it's mainly teens, and that the worst part, is that when caught, if they are minors, the judge just slaps their hand and lets them go. They go back out and keep doing it. If over 18, however, they go to jail.

    I don't know, James- we used to toilet paper trees and throw eggs, when we were teens. Don't know what kind of person thinks it's funny to shoot something that could blind a person. Or ruin a brand new Nike shirt. ( ) But I believe in karma...
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  91. #91
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    246
    Riptide_1: your ideal world exists in almost every other country on earth.

    I live in a country with essentially no guns. It takes a month long training course to be licensed and all automatic and semi automatic guns are banned. I have seen one gun in my life outside of those carried by a small percentage of police. No one lives in fear, no one carries knives instead and our crime rates are much, much lower than those of the United States. If you like the sound of a country like this, perhaps consider taking the first step towards such a way of life and get rid of your guns.

    In a nightmare situation where someone perpetrates a crime on yourself or someone close to you, you are in a situation where you have to take it for granted that the criminal has a gun. This is unfortunate. However, would introducing your gun to the situation improve the situation. Doing so, the following situations can play out.

    1. You win, bad guy dies.

    Here you have to live with the trauma of having killed someone. Say what you want but this is a significant thing. I know I would take a long time to get over such a thing.

    2. Bad guy is a better shot, you die.

    You will never get over this. I am betting that career criminals have better marksmanship than someone who carries a gun and is freaked out and panicing.

    3. Bad guy wins, you lose your wallet/car/cell phone.

    In this case, there is a thing called insurance. It doesn't cost much, probably less than a collection of guns, and has none of the negative side effects. You will be shaken up, cancel your credit cards, get a new driver's license. This is a pain in the arse, but you could probably go to work the next day.

    There are other situations, like getting spooked in the night and blowing your kid's/wife's/husband's brains out when they just went to get a glass of water in the kitchen, and these are more likely than we would like to think, but I won't go into them here.

    Personally, from my impression of the comments here, I think you are all highly paranoid, and I think that paranoid people are probably the last people I would like to see with guns in their hands.

    I question why one would carry a gun when one goes jogging. What does one carry that could be stolen? When I go running I have one house key, my drivers license (in case I get hit by a car or something, so I can be identified and since it carries important informations like my organ donor status, blood type and so on) and maybe $5 in case of emergency. If you are fit, you could probably handle a would be attacker, or just run away (you do have the right shoes on!) If you live near a dangerous area, why not just avoid going to such an area when excercising. Run in a nice part of town, where other people are around, or go running or riding with a friend. Surely this is common sense?

  92. #92
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brianc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,040
    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis

    I don't know, James- we used to toilet paper trees and throw eggs, when we were teens. Don't know what kind of person thinks it's funny to shoot something that could blind a person. Or ruin a brand new Nike shirt. ( ) But I believe in karma...

    when I was in Indiana, some of the football team got busted for filling water guns with PEE and drive by shooting people on campus.
    b

  93. #93
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by C Dunlop
    Riptide_1: your ideal world exists in almost every other country on earth.

    I live in a country with essentially no guns. It takes a month long training course to be licensed and all automatic and semi automatic guns are banned. I have seen one gun in my life outside of those carried by a small percentage of police. No one lives in fear, no one carries knives instead and our crime rates are much, much lower than those of the United States. If you like the sound of a country like this, perhaps consider taking the first step towards such a way of life and get rid of your guns.

    In a nightmare situation where someone perpetrates a crime on yourself or someone close to you, you are in a situation where you have to take it for granted that the criminal has a gun. This is unfortunate. However, would introducing your gun to the situation improve the situation. Doing so, the following situations can play out.

    1. You win, bad guy dies.

    Here you have to live with the trauma of having killed someone. Say what you want but this is a significant thing. I know I would take a long time to get over such a thing.

    2. Bad guy is a better shot, you die.

    You will never get over this. I am betting that career criminals have better marksmanship than someone who carries a gun and is freaked out and panicing.

    3. Bad guy wins, you lose your wallet/car/cell phone.

    In this case, there is a thing called insurance. It doesn't cost much, probably less than a collection of guns, and has none of the negative side effects. You will be shaken up, cancel your credit cards, get a new driver's license. This is a pain in the arse, but you could probably go to work the next day.

    There are other situations, like getting spooked in the night and blowing your kid's/wife's/husband's brains out when they just went to get a glass of water in the kitchen, and these are more likely than we would like to think, but I won't go into them here.

    Personally, from my impression of the comments here, I think you are all highly paranoid, and I think that paranoid people are probably the last people I would like to see with guns in their hands.

    I question why one would carry a gun when one goes jogging. What does one carry that could be stolen? When I go running I have one house key, my drivers license (in case I get hit by a car or something, so I can be identified and since it carries important informations like my organ donor status, blood type and so on) and maybe $5 in case of emergency. If you are fit, you could probably handle a would be attacker, or just run away (you do have the right shoes on!) If you live near a dangerous area, why not just avoid going to such an area when excercising. Run in a nice part of town, where other people are around, or go running or riding with a friend. Surely this is common sense?
    CDunlop... looking at your profile, I see that you live down under is that correct?

    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21902

    Statistics have shown that violent crime has jumped significantly since the gun bans have been put into place in both Australia and England.

    In the US, one of the hardest places to own a weapon (prior to Heller v. DC - SCOTUS case) is Washington DC, which just happens to have one of the highest violent crime rates in the country.

    There are other situations, like getting spooked in the night and blowing your kid's/wife's/husband's brains out when they just went to get a glass of water in the kitchen, and these are more likely than we would like to think, but I won't go into them here.
    These unfortunate situations happen, and they get reported across all news outlets when they occur... however bad guy rapist gets shot by your wife/girlfriend while holding a knife he got in your kitchen rarely gets newstime, and when it does, its not much more than a quick blurb.

    As far as other unfortunate situations... It is much more common for people to run over and kill their own kids while backing out of the driveway. Should we outlaw the reverse gear on a car? I can provide statistics if you wish.

    You seem hung up on property crimes, you mention getting robbed multiple times. Unfortunately the bad guys don't always want to rob you. Sometimes they want to rob, rape, murder, pick a fight for no reason etc.

    Getting rid of guns would work to eliminate all gun crime.

    Step 1: Remove guns from all law abiding citizens (Crime rate skyrockets)
    Step 2: Remove guns from all criminals as they are found/arrested (Crime rate remains high until complete)
    Step 3: Remove all knowledge on how to manufacture, import or restore firearms from all people. Begin brainwashing (Gun Related Crime rate begins to drop until most guns have been smelted or rusted away ... ~100 years)
    Step 4: Ensure the people of the world never re-invent guns.
    Step 5: 150 years after Step 1, proceed with banning all knives. Cantaloupes are cut with serrated spoons.

  94. #94
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,382
    How 'bout packing these guns...?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Ride more; post less...

  95. #95
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    242
    Quote Originally Posted by C Dunlop
    Riptide_1: your ideal world exists in almost every other country on earth.

    I live in a country with essentially no guns. It takes a month long training course to be licensed and all automatic and semi automatic guns are banned. I have seen one gun in my life outside of those carried by a small percentage of police. No one lives in fear, no one carries knives instead and our crime rates are much, much lower than those of the United States. If you like the sound of a country like this, perhaps consider taking the first step towards such a way of life and get rid of your guns.

    In a nightmare situation where someone perpetrates a crime on yourself or someone close to you, you are in a situation where you have to take it for granted that the criminal has a gun. This is unfortunate. However, would introducing your gun to the situation improve the situation. Doing so, the following situations can play out.

    1. You win, bad guy dies.

    Here you have to live with the trauma of having killed someone. Say what you want but this is a significant thing. I know I would take a long time to get over such a thing.

    2. Bad guy is a better shot, you die.

    You will never get over this. I am betting that career criminals have better marksmanship than someone who carries a gun and is freaked out and panicing.

    3. Bad guy wins, you lose your wallet/car/cell phone.

    In this case, there is a thing called insurance. It doesn't cost much, probably less than a collection of guns, and has none of the negative side effects. You will be shaken up, cancel your credit cards, get a new driver's license. This is a pain in the arse, but you could probably go to work the next day.

    There are other situations, like getting spooked in the night and blowing your kid's/wife's/husband's brains out when they just went to get a glass of water in the kitchen, and these are more likely than we would like to think, but I won't go into them here.

    Personally, from my impression of the comments here, I think you are all highly paranoid, and I think that paranoid people are probably the last people I would like to see with guns in their hands.

    I question why one would carry a gun when one goes jogging. What does one carry that could be stolen? When I go running I have one house key, my drivers license (in case I get hit by a car or something, so I can be identified and since it carries important informations like my organ donor status, blood type and so on) and maybe $5 in case of emergency. If you are fit, you could probably handle a would be attacker, or just run away (you do have the right shoes on!) If you live near a dangerous area, why not just avoid going to such an area when excercising. Run in a nice part of town, where other people are around, or go running or riding with a friend. Surely this is common sense?
    I dissagree!! Seeing how we live so close to a Country that the people are not allowed to have guns except "bad" guys(they will always be able to get them) and military and they have a very high crime rate. These are the people when I'm out on the trail, wilderness, hunting and camping that I worry about. The economy has made crime rates as well. I love the fact that I at least have the chance to protect my family, myself or anyone else for that matter( I rarely carry but mainly home defense). You never know what they will take.... Materials who cares(kinda) but my family... NOT A CHANCE!!! I was raised around guns and know about them and truely never want to even think about showing a weapon to anybody let alone shoot it at someone. I was trained that if I get in a situation where I need to point it there is one and ony one reason to point a gun at someone/something and that is if you intend to shoot it.

  96. #96
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by ph4tcharlie
    CDunlop... looking at your profile, I see that you live down under is that correct?

    Statistics have shown that violent crime has jumped significantly since the gun bans have been put into place in both Australia and England.
    Yes, I am Australian, and I was referring to Australia, but live mostly in Japan.

    If you are referring to the 'statistics' quoted in the article quoted, then you should really get a better news source.

    I will make just two criticisms, but there are many more I could make of this issue.

    The murder rate, particularly in relation to gun murders deal with a very small sample size, that is, below 5 per year in victoria, typically. The statistics here have been compiled by someone who has clearly not looked into the issues nor have they any local knowledge of Australia and its crime patterns. In this case, the spike in gun related homicides in 2009 are a result of the flaring up of a long running italian organised crime gang rivalry. I hesitate to call them 'mafia' as is sometimes done by the media here. If one looked at the statistics, one would see a spike in 1997 and 2004, in which these crime gangs also felt like killing one another. I think a total of about 5-10 acts of gun related homicide were comitted in this year in victoria. A 300% increase, at a guess, would be a result of an increase from, say 3 murders to 9, none of which would have been prevented by gun ownership being more widespread. Infact, the opposite, in two cases in 2001, where these individuals used automatic weapons to commit their crimes (ie kill leading members of other crimal gangs) the automatic weapons were used in public and it was done as a statement of sorts. In this case, I believe several bystanders were unintentionally killed from several hundred metres away by stray bullets.

    Secondly, the increase in violent crime in 2007 can be traced to policing successes on heroin imports. Heroin addicts in 2007, for a large part, turned to methamphetemines. My father is a drug rehab nurse and talked about the changing nature of his job in this year. More violent crimes occurred because of the nature of these drug users when under the influence of their drugs of addiction. Again, it was dealing with very small numbers and so the % increase is really a case of misleading journalism rather than any significant problem.

    The most laughable thing was the reference to the 1 million chinese automatic weapons imported illegally. Australia is a nation of 20 million people. Remove children and the elderly from this and that leaves one with say, 10 million. I can honestly say that I have never met a person with a gun, and I do not think that 1 in 10 people are hiding their chinese made ak-47s from me! This paragraph is completely false. I even doubt the actual statistics quoted. Not one law enforcement agency or the Australian Bureau of Statistics is quoted, and they keep and publish very good crime statistics online. In short, I call bullsh!t.

    EDIT: Reading this article again, I definately call bullsh!t. These statistics are blatantly false and physically impossible. There is absolutely no way that there were 10 million guns in Australia in 1997, when the population was around 18 million. Moreover, look at the Author's bi line, did I hear someone say 'phychotic redneck'?

  97. #97
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz
    How 'bout packing these guns...?
    $10 says he can't even wipe his own arse.
    “Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride.” ~ Eddy Merckx

  98. #98
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    27
    Quote Originally Posted by ph4tcharlie
    CDunlop... looking at your profile, I see that you live down under is that correct?

    http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21902

    Statistics have shown that violent crime has jumped significantly since the gun bans have been put into place in both Australia and England.

    In the US, one of the hardest places to own a weapon (prior to Heller v. DC - SCOTUS case) is Washington DC, which just happens to have one of the highest violent crime rates in the country.



    These unfortunate situations happen, and they get reported across all news outlets when they occur... however bad guy rapist gets shot by your wife/girlfriend while holding a knife he got in your kitchen rarely gets newstime, and when it does, its not much more than a quick blurb.

    As far as other unfortunate situations... It is much more common for people to run over and kill their own kids while backing out of the driveway. Should we outlaw the reverse gear on a car? I can provide statistics if you wish.

    You seem hung up on property crimes, you mention getting robbed multiple times. Unfortunately the bad guys don't always want to rob you. Sometimes they want to rob, rape, murder, pick a fight for no reason etc.

    Getting rid of guns would work to eliminate all gun crime.

    Step 1: Remove guns from all law abiding citizens (Crime rate skyrockets)
    Step 2: Remove guns from all criminals as they are found/arrested (Crime rate remains high until complete)
    Step 3: Remove all knowledge on how to manufacture, import or restore firearms from all people. Begin brainwashing (Gun Related Crime rate begins to drop until most guns have been smelted or rusted away ... ~100 years)
    Step 4: Ensure the people of the world never re-invent guns.
    Step 5: 150 years after Step 1, proceed with banning all knives. Cantaloupes are cut with serrated spoons.
    I think you made some great points. I wanted to say some of the same things, but am afraid I am may wear-out my welcome here if I don't sort of let it drop at some point. So, I was glad you posted this.

    This is probably silly to say; but, I want to thank folks on both sides of the debate for seeming to step-up a bit over the last day or two and reducing the personal slams and actually discussing the matter. I believe that there is no perfect solution to this or anything, really. I think these opposing thoughts and conversation give us a chance to understand at least a small portion of the complexities that are a part of this issue.

    All that having been said, I am still waiting for someone to teach me a better way to pack while trail riding. Anybody?

  99. #99
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Riptide_1

    This is probably silly to say; but, I want to thank folks on both sides of the debate for seeming to step-up a bit over the last day or two and reducing the personal slams and actually discussing the matter. I believe that there is no perfect solution to this or anything, really. I think these opposing thoughts and conversation give us a chance to understand at least a small portion of the complexities that are a part of this issue.
    what bothers me most about the whole issue is the way the NRA has dictated the terms of the discussion. The Sotoymayer confirmation brought a lot of their strategy back to light. The NRA try to make it a zero-sum game: any restriction is an affront to the founding principles of democracy and near-blasphemy. Gun control advocates respond in kind, ignoring common sense like in Mexico where the only people with guns are the criminals. Regular sensible people get caught up in politics of "YAY!\BOO!" which does nothing for any of us in the big picture to help find common ground and sensible solutions.

    Yes we have the 2nd amendment, but the fact is that all our rights as our society has evolved have also evolved - taken away, no; but evolved with the changes over 250 yrs. Speech is not free completely, someone got sued just recently for heckling someone on their blog for cryin out loud. The Founding Fathers never ever conceived of a person being able to easily afford and maintain 10 automatic weapons for largely recreational purposes, when in their time a musket was probably the most expensive thing a man owned, critical to his survival, and bullets were smelted in his barn from old horseshoe nails. A bit of research online suggests that in 1875 a Colt Peacemaker cost about 1 month’s wages for the average man. As per wikipedia and the 2005 census, the average male income in the US was $39,400. 2 minutes shopping online found an AK47 for $1000, AR-15 for $1200, and a 9mm for $300. In real dollar terms, you can get the 15 shot 9mm with better accuracy and firepower for 1/10th the cost of the 1875 Peacemaker.

    I'm not saying guns shouldn't be allowed, only that for either side to draw a line in the sand ignores the societal, economic and technical changes since the Constitution was written. It only creates divisiveness and partisanism. Anyway, to echo what Riptide said, its nicer to see people thinking and discussing, rather than just letting jingoism speak for them.

    And, after getting stranded on Usery Pass rd in the dark 2 nights ago when I blew out a tire, I am looking for suggestions for a good scuba knife.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  100. #100
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    242
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    And, after getting stranded on Usery Pass rd in the dark 2 nights ago when I blew out a tire, I am looking for suggestions for a good scuba knife.
    Sounds like NOT alot of fun. Thats why I dont like to go on long rides by myself. Glad you made it out safe!! I cant help with the SCUBA knife though....

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 1

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.