OT : For you Backcountry Skiers and Riders. . .- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    wretch
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    OT : For you Backcountry Skiers and Riders. . .

    My heart is still pounding from watching this. . .



    Apparently the burial victim was trained well enough to throw the Avalung snorkel in right away and reach his hand up towards the top. The skier pretty much proves without a doubt that wearing an Avalung significantly improves your chances of survival. Not to mention the fact that he could of never been found had he not been wearing a beacon/transceiver. Oh yea, he just ruptured his achilles.

    Get that man a beer.

  2. #2
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    gotta love a maritime snowpack

  3. #3
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    I have an avalung but have only worn it on trips to British Columbia. I've wondered, if caught in a slide, if I would have the time to get the thing in my mouth while also trying to shed skis, poles, etc.

    Thankfully, in perhaps 200+ backcountry outings in the SF Peaks I've only been involved in one slide and my partner was able to "swim" to the side. Never let your guard down.

  4. #4
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    Ugh. That's what always kept me away from all the sketchy areas. Buried in an avalanche would be worse than drowning.
    When the world slips you a Jeffrey, stroke the furry wall.

  5. #5
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    It's interesting to see how the sport has progressed. As I've said in other threads, I've kind of been out of it for a while, but these days you see slopes being skied that people would not have even thought about 10 years ago. It's not just that an avalanche is possible, it's that it's likely given the slope and the powder. There's something to be said for avalanche conditions in terms of the layers and how well they bind together, but now it seems that they are skiing stuff so steep (and it's amazing to watch) that it's far more likely than not, regardless of the tempertature/consistancy of the layers. I guess people can get away with it, and maybe it has to do with the amount of snow vs where it starts falling from, if you start a slide at the top and ski away from it, then it won't even affect you, but it seems that it's commonplace now to start a significant slide. Just interesting how that has changed. People seemed to be a lot more cautious back in the day, has technology (trancievers, the snow-lung, etc) really gotten that much better? Would be interesting to see if the percentage of avalanches or deaths has increased amongst the population.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  6. #6
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    The technology has gotten better but as you state more and more people are getting out there. Especially snowmobilers.

    https://avalanche.state.co.us/pub/im...nts/Slide9.JPG

  7. #7
    wretch
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    Deaths . . . starting with current season (bummer) and going back each year to 97-98:

    14, 36, 20, 24, 28, 23, 30, 35, 33, 22, 29, 46.

    Super steep stuff may be more dangerous to ride, but in IMO it's not as much as a danger for a slide. 25-50 degrees pretty much runs the gamut from moderate to high probability. Different types of slides, different types of snow, like Rock said, be prepared and be aware.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash
    Deaths . . . starting with current season (bummer) and going back each year to 97-98:

    14, 36, 20, 24, 28, 23, 30, 35, 33, 22, 29, 46.

    Super steep stuff may be more dangerous to ride, but in IMO it's not as much as a danger for a slide. 25-50 degrees pretty much runs the gamut from moderate to high probability. Different types of slides, different types of snow, like Rock said, be prepared and be aware.
    Well, I'm just relating what I've seen in most recent vids (either that or getting a shot is a lot more important than risking an avalanche during avalanche conditions), and like I said it would be fun to run some numbers. Even the deaths don't tell much without knowing the conditions/terrain and so on. Within 25-50 degrees where is it most likely? It seems there's a lot of stuff being done at 50-60 at least that wasn't even thought about before. Do you have numbers going back to 93? There's a jump of 16 from last year to this, and if you figure the same trend continues, you're looking at ~52 this year!
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  9. #9
    wretch
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    The Sled story from Fernie about a month back was heart wrenching.

    I've linked the video interview of Jeff Adam's. It's chilling and I can't even begin to imagine.

    http://www.theprovince.com/story.html?id=1130923

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    It's interesting to see how the sport has progressed. As I've said in other threads, I've kind of been out of it for a while, but these days you see slopes being skied that people would not have even thought about 10 years ago. It's not just that an avalanche is possible, it's that it's likely given the slope and the powder. There's something to be said for avalanche conditions in terms of the layers and how well they bind together, but now it seems that they are skiing stuff so steep (and it's amazing to watch) that it's far more likely than not, regardless of the tempertature/consistancy of the layers. I guess people can get away with it, and maybe it has to do with the amount of snow vs where it starts falling from, if you start a slide at the top and ski away from it, then it won't even affect you, but it seems that it's commonplace now to start a significant slide. Just interesting how that has changed. People seemed to be a lot more cautious back in the day, has technology (trancievers, the snow-lung, etc) really gotten that much better? Would be interesting to see if the percentage of avalanches or deaths has increased amongst the population.

    I don't really see people skiing different terrain. No real new freesking lines have been pioneered in the last 10 years. What I think is noticeably different is the speed they attack these faces with. Gone are the days of jump turns down a 3,000 ft 55 degree face. Now its all about straight lines and giant mach speed gs turns.


    I think people are more cautious today than ever before. Unfortunately that's not a side of ski porn we see these days, so we assume its safe or they just got lucky.

    More people have been introduced to the Backcountry, so fatalities continue to rise yearly.

  11. #11
    wretch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Well, I'm just relating what I've seen in most recent vids (either that or getting a shot is a lot more important than risking an avalanche during avalanche conditions), and like I said it would be fun to run some numbers. Even the deaths don't tell much without knowing the conditions/terrain and so on. Within 25-50 degrees where is it most likely? It seems there's a lot of stuff being done at 50-60 at least that wasn't even thought about before. Do you have numbers going back to 93? There's a jump of 16 from last year to this, and if you figure the same trend continues, you're looking at ~52 this year!
    Jay I can't begin to get into facts with you it makes my head hurt, especially numbers . Avalanche.org, and the site I check for reports sierraavalanchecenter.org all have links and area numbers. Everything, snowpack, slide type, etc. is recorded to the best of the reporters or patrols ability. Check em out.

    Despite the freak horror stories, I think people are staying safer today and skiing crazier lines. Same terrain being ridden, different riding and prevention technique. They have heli spotters, advanced travel techniques, and an even more depth of information and knowledge available to them about the LOCAL snowpack and weather.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash
    Jay I can't begin to get into facts with you it makes my head hurt, especially numbers . Avalanche.org, and the site I check for reports sierraavalanchecenter.org all have links and area numbers. Everything, snowpack, slide type, etc. is recorded to the best of the reporters or patrols ability. Check em out.

    Despite the freak horror stories, I think people are staying safer today and skiing crazier lines. Same terrain being ridden, different riding and prevention technique. They have heli spotters, advanced travel techniques, and an even more depth of information and knowledge available to them about the LOCAL snowpack and weather.

    Avy control in valdez in the early days, used to be the vietnam heli pilot shooting his 9mm at the cornices to get them to release and trigger a slide. So yes, I think we do things a little safer these days:+)

    Its the un-educated novice that's increasing the death totals. People are being safer and pushing harder than ever before. Its all about education. Snow can change from safe to deadly in a few hours.

    Thanks for the video Truckee!

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    Randall Stacy 2 from Randall Stacy on Vimeo.


    Its at about the 2:15 mark. Snowboarder was led into this terrain by a guide.

    Just finished a 7 day storm cycle the day before. They dropped into this east facing slope around 2pm the next day. I skier luckily made it down first.

  14. #14
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    I personally think the video is more a testament to good transceiver use than avalung success....given the light in the video, it did not appear to be a deep burial and I assume that the skier was fine....no blunt force trauma. Sure, suffocating with an ice mask is one of the more crappy ways to die....but in a slide, ~60% of the fatalities are due to blunt force trauma, broken legs, snapped neck, etc rather than suffocation. I get it though....it increases your odds of skiing away....and I suppose that is good. As Doug Chabot says quite a bit in all of his PSA's.....if you're in a slide.....something went horribly wrong by bad decision making.....I aim to not put myself in that position in the first place.




  15. #15
    wretch
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    Maad very well said. . . the recent inbounds Squaw Slide was just that. . . blunt trauma from the tree's, Randy was found in a matter of minutes.

    The only thing that's gotten me thus far is the number of inbounds avalanche death so far this season, makes me wonder about further precautions.

    I really like your quote about bad decision making.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    Its the un-educated novice that's increasing the death totals.
    Putting this aside, anyone else see that pillow and think "no good" right before he triggered? Predictable, IMO, and a downside of shuttling.

  17. #17
    wretch
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    Putting this aside, anyone else see that pillow and think "no good" right before he triggered? Predictable, IMO, and a downside of shuttling.
    More great points. . . All I could do was look at the pillow and say "Ok that's it". . .

    I've never been fortunate to heli ski. . . but you've definetly shone a light on the fact that they may of just dropped in. . . I doubt it, we'll never know. I hope that they were taking all the precautions but thats a mute point. . . there was a slide. You get a good taste of what you'll be coming down if your skinnin and packin' up it

  18. #18
    Crosley623
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    Having skied and climbed with Doug, I have to say that that statement is a broad generalization and a unfair to way too many that have been caught doing everything right. Having lost a dear friend and another permanently injured in a hut trip, in which all was right, I really hate to see the phrase "bad decision making" being thrown around lightly.
    Overall my experience is that skiers (and riders) are progressing in their training, education, and safety consciousness. No offense, but there seems to be far less of this progression in the snowmachine world. Just a thought, but either way those damn things are scary as hell.

  19. #19
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    Crosley, good points and perhaps I was too flip by quoting Doug Chabot....I did not mean to imply that the gentlemen involved were bad decision makers per se, however I think we all have to agree that getting caught in a slide means that most likely, not all of the risks were mitigated (either consciously or unconsciously). I won't second guess what mitigation happened...that's left up to the individuals involved. If that were me, I would be trying like hell to figure out what decisions I made that led to my involvement in the slide and where I could have made a better decision. With that being said, I recognize that in forums such as this...throwing around blame is all to easy. I'm not blaming anyone....I was just simply quoting Doug Chabot of Gallatin Nat'l Forest Avy center who advocates the human element in avy risk mitigation as much as natural factors. With that being said and to the skiers in the video credit...in the end, it's only mitigation of risk....not the elimination of risk. To your point, these folks could have done all of the analysis in the world, taken the safest route, assessed the snowpack throughout the day as safe utilizing a variety of tests (CT, ECT, rutschblock, dropsack, etc)....and still triggered a release on an isolated instability. That's the nature of the beast and again, I was not intending to imply that the gents in the video made a bad decision to ski that slope.




  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash
    You get a good taste of what you'll be coming down if your skinnin and packin' up it
    Somewhat true, you can get a feel for possible layers by probing w/ a pole or a hasty pit but invariably where you choose to put in a safe skin track is not likely the slope you will want to ski. This is an interesting case:
    http://www.avalanche.org/~uac/Accide...e_Water_Pk.htm

    I've skied w/ the lead rescuer in this fortunate story and he's very conservative, experienced, and smart. The whole decision making process is a science in and off itself.

  21. #21
    wretch
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    Obviously you dont drop down what you've skinned up, you pick the route, etc. Im sure we're all versed in uphill travel. But I think you get a better feel for it, and have more of a chance for snowpack analysis and block tests in different areas, instead of just right up top. . .??? I'm still only 3 years into backcountry trekking, so there is still a lot to learn in terms of experience and skiing/riding with those more experienced.

  22. #22
    wretch
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    I just saw this on Outside's Blog. . . it's labeled "Sick Mogul Video". . . those damn weird asians/japanese shows. Thought I'd lighten the thread a little


  23. #23
    Crosley623
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    Now that's some funny ****....James, you up for a ride tomorrow night?

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    These days I feel more deaths will come from avalanches due to high priced resorts sending a lot of people to go climb a slope without having any training, and also due to warmer winters creating less stable snow packs. Sort of like this current season. Here in the PNW we got 70-100 inches of light dry snow, then 1 week of ice storms, then 2 weeks of warm sunny spring like weather, now the typical wet heavy Cascade Cement snow is on it's way....great recipe for big ol slides!
    Last edited by Desert Pig; 02-12-2009 at 11:03 PM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by crosley623
    Now that's some funny ****....James, you up for a ride tomorrow night?

    I'm down for some revs before I head up north to put my money where my mouth is with respect to this thread and a heavy, dense snow fall which is falling on top of an icy-suncrust overlain by rotten snow in several sketchy layers dating back to late NOV......what time you want to FIP at walgreens?

    BTW....prefer an earlier time since the wife wants to see me before I huck myself of a cornice.....her words, not mine.....I don't do BC air.
    Last edited by Maadjurguer; 01-22-2009 at 11:51 PM.




  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer
    with respect to this thread and a heavy, dense snow fall which is falling on top of an icy-suncrust overlain by rotten snow in several sketchy layers dating back to late NOV.......
    Ideally, this storm coming in wet will make for better bonding w/ the old surface and hopefully finish dry. The rest of the pack is pretty solid where it still exists.

    Early next week could be interesting if the closed low that develops off of the Calif coast tracks this way....
    Last edited by rockman; 01-23-2009 at 07:41 AM.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Pig
    These days I feel more deaths will come from avalanches due to high priced resorts sending a lot of people to go climb a slope without having any training, and also due to warmer winters creating less stable snow packs. Sort of like this current season. Here in the PNW we got 70-100 inches of light dry snow, then 1 week of ice storms, then 2 weeks of warm sunny spring like weather, now the typical wet heavy Cascade Cement snow is on it's way....great recipe for big ol slides!

    Also, I read in the latest issue of Skipress that AZ Snowbowl could be closing in the near future due to less snow pack each year, is this true? I am moving to AZ this spring and would be bummed big time if this was true.
    Really? Ski area access to the backcountry is typically strictly controlled via gates or not even allowed at all. The resorts certainly don't "encourage" clients to ski out of bounds instead of on their patrolled slopes; they would rather you enjoy a $20 burger and fries for lunch at the lodge.

    I'm also not sure that there's any basis for warm winters resulting in less stable snowpacks. The Sierras and Pacific northwest typically have less avalanche hazard (of course they do occur) because of the maritime climate; whereas Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana are far more prone to avalanches because of the continental snowpack (ie., warm days and cold nights that promote depth hoar and faceting and longer intervals between storms).

    As for AZ Snowbowl good years and bad years are strongly correlated to the El Nino/La Nina oscillation. Along w/ southern California the biggest years have been during an El Nino pattern but not always. La Nina just plain sucks as that promotes a storm track far to the north and you can end up with a year like 2001 where the bowl was open for 4 days. As for any correlation to global warming (which I think is what you are inferring) the southwest and much of the west for that matter is still in a decade long-drought but that maybe more tied to longer term climatic oscillations than global warming. Global warming is however going to be a big deal in some places such as Europe where many of the ski areas are at relatively low elevation and more likely to see rain than snow.

  28. #28
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    Half the deaths this season to skiers and boarders have predominately occured while trekking bc wilderness, or simply going solo on terrain that any experienced skier would know not too without a "buddy". Before the company got big, El Diablo cat skiing in Durango was a frequent business my friends and I used. Up until 2004, I know they only had 1 cat, limit of 10 ski/boarders- mainly did all Lime Creek area, and several times got to experience Silverton before it got its publicity. Pre-2004- 75/day for the closest condittions and terrain to the Chugach Range in AK- now its 250/per person. As far as Avalung's are concerned, I dont know to many people that use them. IMO I think its pretty much mandatory for any boarder/skier to own at least a beacon, probe, and shovel, given you plan on exploring unfamiliar terrain. Ive always been curious as how anyone might move their head after being buried to reach the mouth peice on the Avalung.

    I grew up riding sleds, and any rider willing to carve their modified 400 pound machine into the face of a mountain that has recieved rediiculous amounts of snow like this season is insane. A slide is caused by weight/force, noise is a myth. So take a sled plus the rider, circa 550, considerable risk increase over regular body weight risk for triggering a slide. Obviously many factors come in to play, but I just thought Id throw one example out there.

  29. #29
    wretch
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    If your exercising better judgement and using the avalung correctly It'll be in your mouth either when you drop into questionable terrain or as a predominant first instinct as soon as **** hits the . . . snow. Then again I've never been there and done that, a number of my friends ride with them and like that.

  30. #30
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    now that was interesting!?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash
    I just saw this on Outside's Blog. . . it's labeled "Sick Mogul Video".
    dig those man boobs!

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    [QUOTE=rockman]Really? Ski area access to the backcountry is typically strictly controlled via gates or not even allowed at all. The resorts certainly don't "encourage" clients to ski out of bounds instead of on their patrolled slopes; they would rather you enjoy a $20 burger and fries for lunch at the lodge.



    I wasn't referring to people hiking the resorts or going beyond the resorts inbound lines. I was referring to all the buttes, mountains, and other , "wow hey that looks ride able' spots one sees on the way to the resort. Where I am at now is considered the best backcountry next to Alaska, and every year the deaths get higher. But also our local mountain is at $70 for a lift ticket, and the runs/service sucks for that price...same mountain, same runs, same lifts that cost $45 less than 8 years ago. All that does is throw the poor snow bum in the backcountry and it is causing more deaths each year.

    And for the warm winters....well...I can tell ya, living in the heart of the Cascades....the past 8 years has been getting warmer and warmer, less snow and less snow...more avalanches have happened in this time then the past 20 years I've been on the slopes...call it what you will, but this is why I am on a mountain bike forum and moving to AZ, and not a snowboard forum moving to J. Hole or Alaska.. Snowboarding fills in the gaps between bike riding season, but I do like to get my powder turns in on the board every year, rather I have to hike for it, or take the lift.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman
    Really? Ski area access to the backcountry is typically strictly controlled via gates or not even allowed at all.
    In the same way that liquer stores and bars don't provide service to those under 21.

    Got experience in all of those areas.

    I don't want to rag on you too much, but the Secret Service strictly controls access to the President. No one gives a flying F if you slip past the "gate" to go backcountry, and 99% of the time no one is even watching. I'd also say that there are palces that are opening up "in bounds" that traditionally were "out of bounds", even though they were within the ski-resort's land. As people keep pushing the boundries and limits, it's sort of the natural progression, although the safety can be debated. In addition to out of bounds, closed and other stuff, I've skied heavenly a few times with no pass. These places aren't exactly locked-down.
    Last edited by Jayem; 01-23-2009 at 10:14 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    In the same way that liquer stores and bars don't provide service to those under 21.

    Got experience in all of those areas.

    I don't want to rag on you too much, but the Secret Service strictly controls access to the President. No one gives a flying F if you slip past the "gate" to go backcountry, and 99% of the time no one is even watching. I'd also say that there are palces that are opening up "in bounds" that traditionally were "out of bounds", even though they were within the ski-resort's land. As people keep pushing the boundries and limits, it's sort of the natural progression, although the safety can be debated. In addition to out of bounds, closed and other stuff, I've skied heavenly a few times with no pass. These places aren't exactly locked-down.

    umm that is not entirely true. Squaw Valley will arrest you for ducking their ropes if you get caught.

    Mt. Bachelor in Oregon also has a zero tolerance for ducking the rope and heading into the BC. They WILL follow you and find you and escort you off the mountain.

    There are a few others who frown heavily on skiing outside their boundaries.

    You would be surprised who is watching who at some resorts.

  34. #34
    wretch
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    Agreed. . .

    Jrock you heard about the new private lift on the backside of what I think is Headwall, near Alpine, you can get a good idea of it from the 5 lakes hike/ride in the summer. . . There have been towers there for a few years that looked brand new and I've finally gotten word as to whats going on there.

    Jumping the ropes/boundaries at resorts is just like ridin off trail on the weekends at somo. . . I'd say if you think your being smart and tricky and secretly jumping the ropes. . . . your actually a colossal f u c k tard and your just waiting to get caught by the much wiser better versed, better riding ski patrol. BTW I'm not calling anyone here a colossal f u c k tard.

    Regarding snowpack as I've mentioned before check out the inbounds deaths and slides this year some fresh new facts and data there. The snowpack and storm cycle says it all. . . .

    Regarding Tahoe. . . Sugar Bowl will sell a $15 ticket to get up top and hit some epic lake runs. . . that can be some really fun riding. You can hike/skin from Total Downer and hit Negro, Sun Bowl, Castle, etc. thats hardly worth counting as a resort though. Northstar let's you hit a small ridge line when the snow allows, you've just gotta ask the patrol and check out the ropes. I can't remember the name of the ridge, must be the booze.

    It's one thing to figure out the in's and out's of skiing free at a resort, it's another to do that and then jump out of bounds and put everyone and the resort at risk. Not worth it in my opinion.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz
    if you get caught..
    Key words.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Key words.

    It happens more than you think. The resorts that have zero tolerance are watching.

    There is a pretty big history behind the opening of a few major resorts boundaries. The progression of ones own safety in the backcountry played a big part in that.

    The county sheriff used to wait down in gardnerville and hand out pretty hefty tickets to people skiing out of heavenly's boundary down to the valley floor. They finally gave up and the resort put in a few access gates.

    You have to be the smartest person I know, you seem to know everything about everything
    Last edited by JrockFeltaz; 01-24-2009 at 12:05 PM.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by JrockFeltaz

    You have to be the smartest person I know, you know everything about everything
    Thanks.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  38. #38
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    The 'Man' can only give you grief if you have purchased a lift ticket or season pass when going out of bounds at a resort, at least in Oregon...dunno about other states. Take Bachelor for instance...a lot of people drop the backside and ski/board over to Khwoll Butte, then take cat tracks back to Bachelor. If caught and have a pass, you will have your bottom spanked. Now if you leave from the main parking lot and take the XC trails to the west face, you can then hop the NW lift (they don't do ticket checks there), cross over to the summit chair or just start heading to the backside and if you get caught dropping out of bounds, they can't do anything as you never bought a ticket. Mt Hood is the same way, always see people hiking the runs to go hit the out of bounds...The resorts here have no say if you did not purchase a ticket. The flip side is, ever need a rescue, starting fee is like $2,000 an hour.
    Last edited by Desert Pig; 02-12-2009 at 11:03 PM.

  39. #39
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desert Pig
    The 'Man' can only give you grief if you have purchased a lift ticket or season pass when going out of bounds at a resort, at least in Oregon...dunno about other states. Take Bachelor for instance...a lot of people drop the backside and ski/board over to Khwoll Butte, then take cat tracks back to Bachelor. If caught and have a pass, you will have your bottom spanked. Now if you leave from the main parking lot and take the XC trails to the west face, you can then hop the NW lift (they don't do ticket checks there), cross over to the summit chair or just start heading to the backside and if you get caught dropping out of bounds, they can't do anything as you never bought a ticket. Mt Hood is the same way, always see people hiking the runs to go hit the out of bounds...The resorts here have no say if you did not purchase a ticket. The flip side is, ever need a rescue, starting fee is like $2,000 an hour.

    Snow is coming again, fresh turns very soon, got my house in AZ today, see ya all in a couple of months...life is groovy!!!
    That's impossible! It doesn't match jrockfeltazs idealistic view of the world!

    Just sayin, during all of the closed/out of bounds stuff I did, no one ever stopped me or said anything. I have to wonder how much real "crackdown" there is. Seems more like a gentleman's agreement, but there aren't that many gentleman out there.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  40. #40
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    That's impossible! It doesn't match jrockfeltazs idealistic view of the world!

    Just sayin, during all of the closed/out of bounds stuff I did, no one ever stopped me or said anything. I have to wonder how much real "crackdown" there is. Seems more like a gentleman's agreement, but there aren't that many gentleman out there.
    Jayem, maybe you had good luck back in your poaching days but your idealistic view is not shared by everyone.
    http://www.denverpost.com/headlines/ci_11493898
    http://www.backcountryalliance.org/w..._telluride.php

    The last time I ducked a rope was at Snowbasin, Utah in the 90s. Sure enough we set off a slab avalanche into a major terrain trap and probably should have become a statistic. Luckily we were above the release. Anyway, ski patrol caught us and almost called the sherrif to arrest us but we talked our way out of it.

  41. #41
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    Here's some more for ya Jayem to sway you opinion. Not that I don't respect your oft-supplied opinions mind you, especially when it comes to shocks and suspension but sometimes....

    Oh gosh golly, lifetime ban for ducking the rope
    http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...ritishColumbia

    possibility of $1000 fine
    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/feb/15/nation/na-ski15

    Ah shucks, only $300 for these lame snowboarders
    http://gazetteoutthere.blogspot.com/...e-pastime.html

    ah, ducking the ropes is fun
    http://m.parkrecord.com/articles/189076125

    A good chance you could die
    http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_11334849

    Nice pics on Hangover. I rode in Sedona today and it was quite nice.

  42. #42
    wretch
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    That's impossible! It doesn't match jrockfeltazs idealistic view of the world!

    Just sayin, during all of the closed/out of bounds stuff I did, no one ever stopped me or said anything. I have to wonder how much real "crackdown" there is. Seems more like a gentleman's agreement, but there aren't that many gentleman out there.
    I'm sorry Jay you do "know a lot about everything" but you this is sounding igonorant. . .

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