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Thread: OT- Flu Shots

  1. #1
    Meatbomb
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    OT- Flu Shots

    Get one or not ? Opinions.


    I work from home and am not exposed to the masses of sick people in the cube farm so I lean toward the opinion that I don't really need it.


    I have not had a shot in probably 20 years nor have I had the flu in the last 3 years ( I know just like mentioning rain in a race thread, I probably just gave myself the kiss of death).

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Get one or not ? Opinions.


    I work from home and am not exposed to the masses of sick people in the cube farm so I lean toward the opinion that I don't really need it.


    I have not had a shot in probably 20 years nor have I had the flu in the last 3 years ( I know just like mentioning rain in a race thread, I probably just gave myself the kiss of death).
    Never, and have never gotten the flu.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  3. #3
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    Never gotten them. Not saying anyone shouldn't, though...

  4. #4
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    I work around sick people going on 11 years now, and have never gotten a shot, nor have I ever gotten the flu (knock on wood). My 2 cents is let your body fight it off naturaly. That being said, my 7 and 5 year old kids get one every year. I hate to see the little buggers in pain or sick.

  5. #5
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    Never gotten one either. Rule of thumb: if your old, young, have reason to be susceptible (previous conditions, cancer, etc), get one. If you are of general good health, no need to get one.
    Keep pedalin'. You can catch your breath on the downhill!

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  6. #6
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    define 'old'

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    Only two years I ever got the flu were the only two years I ever got the shot.

    I will be passing this year as well.

  8. #8
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    The one year I got a shot I was sick on and off all winter. I think it's brain control or something, BB and all.

  9. #9
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    Don't get it or any other vaccines! Studies show they don't work.
    In a review of 48 reports including more than 66,000 adults, "Vaccination of healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital or take time off work."

    Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).

    Not to mention it has formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, in it as well as other toxic stuff. There's a reason your science teacher taught you to use caution with the formaldehyde touching your skin. You certainly don't want to inject it.

    For more information see: The Truth about the Flu Shot

    Definitely don't give your kids vaccines. Don't worry about the school not letting them in without them. That is a myth. Just sign a waiver and you're in.

    Don't let doctors scare you into getting them either. I am a biologist and my M.D. friends do not use them either. Especially the flu shot.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Never, and have never gotten the flu.
    Same here.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  11. #11
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    I drink whiskey and wash my hands.
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  12. #12
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    I drink whiskey and wash my hands.
    I think we are all fairly certain that at this point, you are immune to most diseases..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    Don't get it or any other vaccines! Studies show they don't work.
    It's true, the only time I caught small pox or polio was right after getting the vaccines.

  15. #15
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    my kids and wife get them. I do not. Im protected from them by them having them. i still occasionally catch it though.

  16. #16
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    no way ...never ......God knows what you getting , and you will get sick from it !!
    And Im very old and would not ever get one .

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    For more information see: The Truth about the Flu Shot
    From the website's disclaimer:

    The information on this website is not intended to replace a one-on-one relationship with a qualified health care professional and is not intended as medical advice.
    Yyyyyeah. But it turns out there's tons of great stuff to buy there -- supplements, books, "neurotransmitter sprays" (???), and Bachmann-approved "vaccines cause damage" t-shirts. I'm sure it's purely coincidental that scaring the hell out of parents helps the good "doctor" move product.
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  18. #18
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    I got one last two years and did not get the flu, I got back from Vegas last week and the day I didn't have beer in my system I caught the flu, I missed a week of work and still getting over it hacking up lung goo. I just got a new flu shot yesterday but I think beer will work better so I am drinking more.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    Don't get it or any other vaccines! Studies show they don't work.
    In a review of 48 reports including more than 66,000 adults, "Vaccination of healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital or take time off work."

    Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).

    Not to mention it has formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, in it as well as other toxic stuff. There's a reason your science teacher taught you to use caution with the formaldehyde touching your skin. You certainly don't want to inject it.

    For more information see: The Truth about the Flu Shot

    Definitely don't give your kids vaccines. Don't worry about the school not letting them in without them. That is a myth. Just sign a waiver and you're in.

    Don't let doctors scare you into getting them either. I am a biologist and my M.D. friends do not use them either. Especially the flu shot.
    What kind of biologist are you? When I was getting my microbiology degree I was warned about this kind of advice being spread around by the ignorant. Do you know what herd immunity is and how it works?

  20. #20
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    Asked my doc today and she told me to skip it... said I'm healthy enough that my body would fight it off just fine. I eat right, exercise and don't smoke too much crack so I'm good to go.

    She did advise I get a tetanus shot thought...

  21. #21
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    I never got it before, but this year started working in a much larger cube farm than before... up from about 15 people to a couple thousand in my building. Needless to say this year I have brought home more illness than the entire last 10 years of my life, so I am considering getting a flu shot.

  22. #22
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    Unlike Phillbo's doc, mine recommends everyone get a flu shot, which is in agreement with the info in this ditty from the Mayo Clinic: Flu shot: Your best bet for avoiding influenza - MayoClinic.com

    Compared with most of you, I'm an old guy and I spend way too much time in airports and on airplanes to not take such a simple precaution. I get vaccinated every year, at least 25 years in a row as of this year. I have probably had flu twice during that time. The risk of complications is low, and I have decided I want all the protection I can get to keep me from getting sick during the best time (weather) to ride bikes in our area. In fact, I just got my vaccine last Saturday at AJ's.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    Don't get it or any other vaccines! Studies show they don't work.
    In a review of 48 reports including more than 66,000 adults, "Vaccination of healthy adults only reduced risk of influenza by 6% and reduced the number of missed work days by less than one day (0.16) days. It did not change the number of people needing to go to hospital or take time off work."

    Reference: "Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy adults." The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews. 1 (2006).

    Not to mention it has formaldehyde, a known carcinogen, in it as well as other toxic stuff. There's a reason your science teacher taught you to use caution with the formaldehyde touching your skin. You certainly don't want to inject it.

    For more information see: The Truth about the Flu Shot

    Definitely don't give your kids vaccines. Don't worry about the school not letting them in without them. That is a myth. Just sign a waiver and you're in.

    Don't let doctors scare you into getting them either. I am a biologist and my M.D. friends do not use them either. Especially the flu shot.

    Not to take a cheap shot, but for a biologist, your reasoning for not getting vaccines sounds a bit unscientific.

    For example, formaldehyde is a know human carcinogen through chronic long-term exposure. Not a single flu shot. Your body can deal with small one-time exposures.

    Plus, what is the other "toxic stuff?" Chemists like to characterize specific substances. "Toxic stuff" sounds very nebulous.

    I checked the list on the website you gave us, and the only other thing that one might call "toxic stuff" on the list was Thimerosal, which contains mercury. What amount? It does matter. It might also matter that the mercury-containing metabolite of Thimerosal is ethylmercury, which does not bio-accumulate. Cold comfort, I guess.

    However, Thimerasol is only in multi-dose flu vials. Ask for a single dose preparation, problem solved.

    I am also disturbed that the website links to other literature by the venerable Dr. Tenpenny that pretty much advocates all vaccines are bad. ALL of them? Really? How can they be sure. Oh yeah, because they're vaccines...and that just makes them bad. That pretty much tells me all I need to know.

    And the website also mentions homeopathy. WTF?? Talk about unscientific. You warn us about vaccinations but send us to a site slinging that snake oil?

    Telling parents point-blank not to get their children vaccinated? Are any of your "M.D. friends" pediatricians? Would they recommend this to their patients?

    Soap-box mode off..........

    (Oh, yeah, the vaccine and drug companies paid me millions to say all that.....)

  24. #24
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    I have been getting flu shots for over 24 yrs. & have not had the flu once during that time period, prior to that I was getting the flu every year & getting my butt kicked by it thanks to all of the idiots that I worked with who wouldn't stay home when they were sick.

    Flu shots don't give you the flu!
    Swine flu shots don't give you swine flu, but you may get or see pigs!

    Got the shingles vaccine because shingles is not something I want to get!

    Non-believers should just drink beer & whiskey & wear an aluminum hat for protection! Oh yeah, wear one of those bracelet thingys too!

  25. #25
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    My wife and I caught full blown influenza about 6 years ago. We ended up being driven to the ER by my parents after spending 3 days having to stop and lie down just to make it to the bathroom. I've had 24hr stuff before but influenza is nasty. We were both in our mid 20's and healthy. I can see why old people die. My employer provides us shots every year and I'm the first one in line.

  26. #26
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    I think the answer is kind of between the two trains of thought. I'll use me for an example.

    While I was in the Army I had no choice and got my flu shot annually. I had a family and despite the shot I occasionally got the flu.

    I retired years ago in '95 and have not had the flu shot since and also have not caught the flu either.

    Imo, people and the environment makes the difference. What works for one may not work for someone else. My kids growing up were major germ magnets because they brought everything home from school. Also my daily exposure to many others in the Army increased the odds too.

    So lifestyle and exposure makes a difference. Take a look at your environment and make a decision based on that.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    For more information see: The Truth about the Flu Shot

    Definitely don't give your kids vaccines. Don't worry about the school not letting them in without them. That is a myth. Just sign a waiver and you're in.

    Don't let doctors scare you into getting them either. I am a biologist and my M.D. friends do not use them either. Especially the flu shot.
    You claim to have a scientific background but cite a page that talks about homeopathic cures? Hmm... credibility effectively defenstrated.

    And +1 on the herd immunity comment. Even people without scientific training understand that concept.
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  28. #28
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    I'm going to be putting a kid into school in a few years. I wonder if I'll be able to acquire the names of all the parents who refused to vaccinate their children? I think I'll try, at the very least.

    Back to the OP! I too work from home and think about flu shots. Never had one. However, my wife works in an office so brings home all manner of bugs. Sick as hell the first year we lived together, but no for-real flu.

    Sometimes I wonder if working @ home actually lowers my immunity because I'm not exposed every day like an office worker or a teacher. Seems like it, sometimes. But I also got my first diagnosis of allergies at the beginning of the year, so started a hardcore neti pot/flonase regimen. Haven't been sick all year! So now I'm thinking maybe being perpetually on-the-bubble with feeling like crap from allergies was stressing my system enough that I was more likely to catch everything.

    Flu shots are cheap and I think the few anecdotes about getting sick afterward have got to be more prominent than the zillions of anecdotes where nothing happened.

    p.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    But I also got my first diagnosis of allergies at the beginning of the year, so started a hardcore neti pot/flonase regimen.

    p.

    Hey, ask your doc if they offer up this program :
    AllergyEasy Sublingual Immunotherapy Allergy Relief Serum Testimonials


    I did it and it got me off the Flonase. In the beginning my insurance did not cover it so it was costing about a C Note each month but about half way through the treatment they started covering it.

    The program ramps you up on drops (under your tongue) that contain allergens you react too.. after the first couple months of daily drops you go into a maintenance mode with weekly drops for about 9 months.

    While it did not cure me completely I'd say I'm about 80-90% better. On occasion I still need little help during the spring allergy season.

  30. #30
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    Huh! I'll look into it. Thanks :-)
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  31. #31
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    I don't get the flu shot, seems like a solution for a problem I don't have. I only get sick about twice a year, and rarely for more than a day or with flu-like symptoms. My wife works with small children all day and I have two kids in school, so I'm exposed to a lot but it doesn't seem to matter. I just do what I can to help my body fend off the nasties: good food, exercise, positive attitude, plenty of sleep, and of course lots of trail rides.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    I'm going to be putting a kid into school in a few years. I wonder if I'll be able to acquire the names of all the parents who refused to vaccinate their children? I think I'll try, at the very least.
    p.
    Take this article with you.
    http://www.bmj.com/content/342/bmj.d22.full
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by YuriB View Post
    I think it is stupid to require parents to have their children vaccinated. Those people who do decide to save their children from a bad case of the flu or death of a child who has a vaccination will just feel fortunate they made that choice. If friends of the vaccinated children don't get vaccinated and get extremely ill or die from a virus protected by the current vaccination it will just be a lessen in life about how choices parents make about their children's health can be important.

    Not ever being a parent certainly has reduced a lot of difficult decisions some of us would have had to make, if we had the responsibility of raising a family. For those parents raising children, please make sure you help them with getting a good education or skills, so they will move out and get a high paying job to be good taxpayers to fund my social security, I am counting on you and them.

  34. #34
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    I am a nurse and work around sick people for a living. I don't get the shot and haven't for the last 10+ years. Some years I get a little bug and some I don't, but I haven't been really ill with the flu in a long time (knock on wood!). We are always offered the shot for free very early in the season but we are never pressured about it at all.
    Handwashing is always your first line of defense again illnesses, do it often.
    The whiskey idea isnot too bad either...

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pointerDixie214 View Post
    Only two years I ever got the flu were the only two years I ever got the shot.

    I will be passing this year as well.
    Exactly the same for me-it was hell hiding, convincing, forgery and lying trying to convince the military to not give me another one.
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  36. #36
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    I have always been told that if your immune system is less robust than others, you should maybe get one based on the risk factors you face daily.

    I work from home and my wife is elementary age kid special education teacher, when not home I fly in cramped planes, ride on a cramped tour bus and perform in front of thousands (lots of handshaking and that after) and I don't do the shots. I don't beleive the limited evidence of flu vaccines and thier negative effects on the general population either.
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  37. #37
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    I get it for free at work, but it's optional.
    I have got the flu years I got the shot and years I didn't.
    I got it last year but got a horrible flu that lasted a few days.

    Don't think it makes a difference. Like was said, for children or old people, maybe it gets them that bit of extra edge to get over it without kicking the can.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    I think it is stupid to require parents to have their children vaccinated.
    Completely wrong. There is a reason that tuberculosis, small pox, and measles don't kill a large number of people in America anymore.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Completely wrong. There is a reason that tuberculosis, small pox, and measles don't kill a large number of people in America anymore.
    Don't worry TD, let me take this one for you.

    m77ranger, what have you done to eradicate influenza, TB, small pox and measles? Are you conducting drug trials or performing research into better vaccines? If not, you have no right to comment. If not for my posting in this thread awareness of this issue would not be what it is.

    Good day, sir.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart View Post
    Don't worry TD, let me take this one for you.

    m77ranger, what have you done to eradicate influenza, TB, small pox and measles? Are you conducting drug trials or performing research into better vaccines? If not, you have no right to comment. If not for my posting in this thread awareness of this issue would not be what it is.

    Good day, sir.
    I'm not dumbing down our immune systems I'm making them more appealing for the MASSES!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart View Post
    Don't worry TD, let me take this one for you.

    m77ranger, what have you done to eradicate influenza, TB, small pox and measles? Are you conducting drug trials or performing research into better vaccines? If not, you have no right to comment. If not for my posting in this thread awareness of this issue would not be what it is.

    Good day, sir.
    The fact of the matter is, most of those who don't get vaccines are just lazy.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    The fact of the matter is, most of those who don't get vaccines are just lazy.
    I contend it is those who get vaccines who are the coddled and lazy. Those who choose comfort over illness, work over bed rest and life over debilitating crippling disease. Those who are willing to give up the liberty of a life free from needles for a chance of security against disease deserve neither!

    Vaccine takers do not care about the rest of us getting the most out of our hard earned virus dollars.

    Good day to you too, sir.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart View Post
    I contend it is those who get vaccines who are the coddled and lazy. Those who choose comfort over illness, work over bed rest and life over debilitating crippling disease. Those who are willing to give up the liberty of a life free from needles for a chance of security against disease deserve neither!

    Vaccine takers do not care about the rest of us getting the most out of our hard earned virus dollars.

    Good day to you too, sir.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoHeadsBrewing View Post
    QFT...I think Abe Lincoln said that first.
    Yes, Abe was staunchly anti-vaccine, a remarkably progressive stance considering the heavy toll the AIDS virus was taking on the country during his tenure in office. Over half a million US citizens died from it during that period of time.

  45. #45
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    Hell no.

    Why were you created with an immune system? Build up your innate immune system by not tearing it down with crap food and chemicals and shots (interfering with the body's natural tendency).

    To me, it's simple and perfectly logical. No immunizations in this household at all.

    YMMV.
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  46. #46
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    Never have got a flu shot and really deal with meds ( even tylenol, advil ) as a last resort type thing. My kids usually get sick when they start school. Sometimes I get a slight cold or cough from that but nothing ever like the flu. Mostly I think that I dont have time to be sick.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzKennedy View Post
    I am a nurse and work around sick people for a living. I don't get the shot and haven't for the last 10+ years. Some years I get a little bug and some I don't, but I haven't been really ill with the flu in a long time (knock on wood!). We are always offered the shot for free very early in the season but we are never pressured about it at all.
    Handwashing is always your first line of defense again illnesses, do it often.
    The whiskey idea isnot too bad either...
    Az:

    A few previous posters indicated they thought the flu may be associated with laziness. Has it been your experience that people who you treat for flu seem to be less energetic than the other people you treat? Does the medical community see any correlation between laziness and the flu.

    Keeping your hands washed frequently takes initiative similar to making necessary trail improvements to improve the user experience for the masses. People who display a lot of initiative are normally considered by most of us to be nice people.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 67Xer View Post
    Hell no.

    Why were you created with an immune system? Build up your innate immune system by not tearing it down with crap food and chemicals and shots (interfering with the body's natural tendency).

    To me, it's simple and perfectly logical. No immunizations in this household at all.

    YMMV.
    Yeah, just the other day, my kid had this little bitty infection in his leg. The quack doctor tried to give my kids some "antibiotics." I said, "Hey MMAAAAAAANNNN, why don't you just let my little snowflake's innate immune system deal with it! I don't need you pumping my kid with big pharma CHEMICALS (!!) MMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNN. I am totally anti chemical. I mean, why would you want CHEMICALS (!!) in your body??" Then my doc muttered something about how my whole body was made of chemicals. What? Trapper John was trippin'. Just cuz he got him some book-learnin'. Turns out, the infection spread and we had to lop off Junior's leg anyway. I think I taught that doctor a lesson or two...

  49. #49
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    I usually get them because my Diabetes weakens my immune system. Damn you Diabetes....
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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    Yeah, just the other day, my kid had this little bitty infection in his leg. The quack doctor tried to give my kids some "antibiotics." I said, "Hey MMAAAAAAANNNN, why don't you just let my little snowflake's innate immune system deal with it! I don't need you pumping my kid with big pharma CHEMICALS (!!) MMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNN. I am totally anti chemical. I mean, why would you want CHEMICALS (!!) in your body??" Then my doc muttered something about how my whole body was made of chemicals. What? Trapper John was trippin'. Just cuz he got him some book-learnin'. Turns out, the infection spread and we had to lop off Junior's leg anyway. I think I taught that doctor a lesson or two...
    Like!
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  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    Yeah, just the other day, my kid had this little bitty infection in his leg. The quack doctor tried to give my kids some "antibiotics." I said, "Hey MMAAAAAAANNNN, why don't you just let my little snowflake's innate immune system deal with it! I don't need you pumping my kid with big pharma CHEMICALS (!!) MMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNN. I am totally anti chemical. I mean, why would you want CHEMICALS (!!) in your body??" Then my doc muttered something about how my whole body was made of chemicals. What? Trapper John was trippin'. Just cuz he got him some book-learnin'. Turns out, the infection spread and we had to lop off Junior's leg anyway. I think I taught that doctor a lesson or two...
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Completely wrong. There is a reason that tuberculosis, small pox, and measles don't kill a large number of people in America anymore.
    Smallpox had already stopped infection people in more than 8 of 10 countries throughout the world when the World Health Organization launched a worldwide vaccination campaign against smallpox in 1967.
    From 1881 to 1941, deaths from smallpox tumbled after people began refusing the vaccine in England and Whales. In 1918 and 1919, the worst epidemic of smallpox ever recorded in the Philippines occured after the U.S. took control of the islands and enforced mandatory shots. The whole population was vaccinated; thousands died. In 1926, the Journal of the American Medical Association found correlations between smallpox vaccinations and neurological disorders.

    I could go on and on. This is why we do not get the smallpox vaccine today.

    Measles - From 1915 to 1958, before the measles vaccine was introduced, the measles death rate in the United States and Great Britain had already declined on its own by 98% (from the International Mortalily Statistics, 1981).

    In 1988, 69% of all school-aged children in the U.S. who contracted meales were adequately vaccinated. In 1989 it was 89%. (from CDC Morbidity and Mortality Reports)


    Prior to the 1960s, most children in the U.S. and Canada caught the measles and survived.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    Smallpox had already stopped infection people in more than 8 of 10 countries throughout the world when the World Health Organization launched a worldwide vaccination campaign against smallpox in 1967.
    From 1881 to 1941, deaths from smallpox tumbled after people began refusing the vaccine in England and Whales. In 1918 and 1919, the worst epidemic of smallpox ever recorded in the Philippines occured after the U.S. took control of the islands and enforced mandatory shots. The whole population was vaccinated; thousands died. In 1926, the Journal of the American Medical Association found correlations between smallpox vaccinations and neurological disorders.

    I could go on and on. This is why we do not get the smallpox vaccine today.

    Measles - From 1915 to 1958, before the measles vaccine was introduced, the measles death rate in the United States and Great Britain had already declined on its own by 98% (from the International Mortalily Statistics, 1981).

    In 1988, 69% of all school-aged children in the U.S. who contracted meales were adequately vaccinated. In 1989 it was 89%. (from CDC Morbidity and Mortality Reports)


    Prior to the 1960s, most children in the U.S. and Canada caught the measles and survived.
    And that means about jack squat. Correlation does not imply causation, and just because those overall numbers show the deaths had risen or dropped doesn't really mean anything at all, it just allows the uneducated (as far as stats, medicine, etc) to make guesses and imply relationships that may not even exist.

    Yes, you could go on and on, but it doesn't really mean anything because there's no validity to the data.

    Show some peer-reviewed studies about your hypothesis and then we might get somewhere.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    I'm going to be putting a kid into school in a few years. I wonder if I'll be able to acquire the names of all the parents who refused to vaccinate their children? I think I'll try, at the very least.
    They are going to love you at your kid's school.

    Since one of the opt-out clauses is simply for religious reasons, I doubt they'll disclose that info.
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  55. #55
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    I don't get the shot though my place of work does provide it for free. I work in field that puts me up close with every imaginable disease process for large amounts at a time. The last time I got the flu was over ten years ago (not vaccinated). I have a 2.5 year old and a prego wife, neither have ever got the vaccine. It works for us. For the severely immune-compromised i get it, but for the rest, I don't. To each their own.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    Smallpox had already stopped infection people in more than 8 of 10 countries throughout the world when the World Health Organization launched a worldwide vaccination campaign against smallpox in 1967.
    From 1881 to 1941, deaths from smallpox tumbled after people began refusing the vaccine in England and Whales. In 1918 and 1919, the worst epidemic of smallpox ever recorded in the Philippines occured after the U.S. took control of the islands and enforced mandatory shots. The whole population was vaccinated; thousands died. In 1926, the Journal of the American Medical Association found correlations between smallpox vaccinations and neurological disorders.

    I could go on and on. This is why we do not get the smallpox vaccine today.

    Measles - From 1915 to 1958, before the measles vaccine was introduced, the measles death rate in the United States and Great Britain had already declined on its own by 98% (from the International Mortalily Statistics, 1981).

    In 1988, 69% of all school-aged children in the U.S. who contracted meales were adequately vaccinated. In 1989 it was 89%. (from CDC Morbidity and Mortality Reports)


    Prior to the 1960s, most children in the U.S. and Canada caught the measles and survived.
    If you really are a biologist I wouldn't let your employer know that you don't understand/believe in science.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    And that means about jack squat. Correlation does not imply causation, and just because those overall numbers show the deaths had risen or dropped doesn't really mean anything at all, it just allows the uneducated (as far as stats, medicine, etc) to make guesses and imply relationships that may not even exist.

    Yes, you could go on and on, but it doesn't really mean anything because there's no validity to the data.

    Show some peer-reviewed studies about your hypothesis and then we might get somewhere.
    You need to be careful using words like "correlation" and "causation" without knowing their meaning. Correlation means "the mutual relation of two or more things". I am not correlating anything. The proponents of vaccines are the ones using correlation to "prove" vaccines wiped out a certain illness when the results they were aiming for were already in effect. Causation means "action of causing". I did not use the referenced studies to show any causation. Again, the vaccine proponents are the ones trying to demonstrate that their vaccine "caused" the decline of an illness when that simply was not true. The illness was already in rapid decline! That is like saying I made the red light turn green by snapping my fingers when the light was already turning green. My toddler used to fall for that all the time until he knew better. Don't fall for the same trick with vaccines. Look at the stats first.
    I would be glad to review any statistics that show otherwise to help me see things the other way.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    You need to be careful using words like "correlation" and "causation" without knowing their meaning .
    O RLY!??

    You are the one posting stats and suggesting/implying that vaccines are inneffective/cause disease. Let's see your studies.

    Maybe you should be talking to someone who hasn't had to do any studies and research? Believe you me, I know the difference. I've had to defend the difference. Because I've had to do these things, I can tell what you posted is just hyperbole.

    the worst epidemic of smallpox ever recorded in the Philippines occured after the U.S. took control of the islands and enforced mandatory shots.
    Ok, where's the rest of the information, like how long it took to vaccinate, percentage of population vaccinated vs. infected and how long after, and so on. Otherwise, it just seems like hyperbole. Let's see the links to the studies.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  59. #59
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    Show some peer-reviewed studies about your hypothesis and then we might get somewhere.[/QUOTE]

    I have not presented any hypothesis and the "Journal of American Medical Association" IS a peer-reviewed journal.

    I am a peer that reviews proposed studies for journal publications at times and these are the questions I would have in reviewing submitted studies. Show me the proof that a vaccine is effective with no dangerous side effects.

    In additional to what I noted previously - in 1996, measles outbreaks occurred primarily amoung children who had prior vaccinations. ( CDC - "U.S. Childhood Immunization Update: Measles" -March 1997) CDC records show similar results for other years as well. How else would you interpret this data other than the vaccine is not effective.

    Some other peer-reviewed studies for your review as you requested (not that you or anyone reading is going to look these up anyway).
    -Resnick, S.K. "Should you vaccinate against measles?" Natural Health (Jan/Feb 1992)
    -Gold, E. "Current progress in measles eradications in the United States." Infect Med 1997.
    - CDC. "Babies of vaccinated moms more susceptible to measles." Pediatrics (Nov. 1999).
    - Gorrow, R.P. "Fatality rates of smallpox in the vaccinated and unvaccinated." British Medical Journal (January 14, 1928).

  60. #60
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    Back the the Flu Shot:
    Every year, health officials must guess which strains of the flu will circulate throughout society. When they guess right, and their vaccine contains the flu strains matching that year's circulating flu, the shot is about 35% effective in preventing that year's flu in the elderly. When they guess wrong, the vaccine off NO protection against the flu. Source: Several CDC MMWRs

  61. #61
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    To produce a flu vaccine, chick embryos are inoculated with influenza viruses. This mixture is cultivated for several weeks. Each flu strain is then inactivated with formaldehyde and preserved with thimerosal, a mercury derivative. The viral strains are then blended into a single vaccine, licensed by the FDA and distributed by vaccine manufacturers. Scientific control-group testing for safety and efficacy is not required.

    I'd rather shoot up with crack. At least there is a guarantee that I would feel good.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    I'd rather shoot up with crack. At least there is a guarantee that I would feel good.
    So, you chose crack over knowledge.

    I really hope that you keep your internet life a secret from your boss. (assuming you really are a biologist.)

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post

    I have not presented any hypothesis and the "Journal of American Medical Association" IS a peer-reviewed journal.
    Wait, from 1926? Shirely there's been follow-up? Haha. I'm going to say that1926 was a very long time ago. I thought this was about the flu and not measles anyway?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Az:

    A few previous posters indicated they thought the flu may be associated with laziness. Has it been your experience that people who you treat for flu seem to be less energetic than the other people you treat? Does the medical community see any correlation between laziness and the flu.

    Keeping your hands washed frequently takes initiative similar to making necessary trail improvements to improve the user experience for the masses. People who display a lot of initiative are normally considered by most of us to be nice people.

    Hmmmmmm...let me get back to you on that one after some research.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    Sometimes I wonder if working @ home actually lowers my immunity because I'm not exposed every day like an office worker or a teacher.

    p.
    Ya' know, by simply using the toilet rim as the lunch table, you might be able to rebuild
    your immune system in short order.

    Now, isn't that not the best advice that you've never before received?

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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Wait, from 1926? Shirely there's been follow-up? Haha. I'm going to say that1926 was a very long time ago. I thought this was about the flu and not measles anyway?
    Seriously? Haha? You either did not read or understand my other postings.
    And don't call me Shirley (spelled correctly by the way).

    (drop the mic) Peace out.

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphanchips View Post
    I am not correlating anything...I did not use the referenced studies to show any causation.
    Actually, you were correlating. This is what you were correlating:

    -The refusal of the vaccine with the drop of infection rates in England and Wales
    -The introduction of a vaccine in the Philippines with the largest outbreak

    If you were not using these fun little tidbits to correlate anything, then what is the purpose of these factoids??

    The fact that you can't see that you are actually correlating events (and thus attempting to bolster your point), tells me you are either clueless or dishonest.

    Which one?

    I almost don't believe you are any kind of "biologist." Certainly not one with an advanced degree......but I could be wrong.....

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