No more riding through 145th at Via Linda- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    No more riding through 145th at Via Linda

    Hidden Hills, the neighborhood that you would ride up the street after coming over Sunrise in order to get up to the dirt road, this is now closed to bikes for it sounds like at least until the end of the year and maybe longer.

    The gates used to be staggered, now they are closed, the city still has an easement but are not allowing bikes into the private community until a bypass is built.

    When I road bike out that way, big deal, I can turn around at the gate and not feel put out very much at all. But when you're on your mtb and you come over Sunrise, how in the heck to you connect to the Sonoran trail now?

    Big Double, nope.

    Quad, not now.

    What's the work around other than crashing the gate and riding where we're not supposed to be riding?
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  2. #2
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    Cut your own trail. The city has known about this issue for a while now and there are enough people to volunteer to make a connector trail, but the problem still exists. Guess your tax money isn't enough to make a simple trail to solve the problem.

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  3. #3
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    Private community or not. Our tax $ paid for and pay to maintain.
    If I need to get through there to reach a trail I will do so.
    I may even wear a hoodie for the neighborhood rent a cop.
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  4. #4
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    Hmm...and I thought an easement meant that the property owner could not bar you from crossing their land. Does a city have the right to give back an easement that is owned by its citizens?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post

    What's the work around other than crashing the gate and riding where we're not supposed to be riding?
    Wait for the gate to open, and then say you're raising money for Not One More Foundation.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  6. #6
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    Somebody sent me this.


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    Hidden Hills, the neighborhood that you would ride up the street after coming over Sunrise in order to get up to the dirt road, this is now closed to bikes for it sounds like at least until the end of the year and maybe longer.

    The gates used to be staggered, now they are closed, the city still has an easement but are not allowing bikes into the private community until a bypass is built.

    When I road bike out that way, big deal, I can turn around at the gate and not feel put out very much at all. But when you're on your mtb and you come over Sunrise, how in the heck to you connect to the Sonoran trail now?

    Big Double, nope.

    Quad, not now.

    What's the work around other than crashing the gate and riding where we're not supposed to be riding?

    drink beer, ride bikes, go f*** yourself
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Wait for the gate to open, and then say you're raising money for Not One More Foundation.
    They're saying it may be a year before it opens again. Can't wait that long to pass through on the MTB.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post

    drink beer, ride bikes, go f*** yourself
    Thanks, not interested in causing issues in Hidden Hills.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn-Rider View Post
    Somebody sent me this.

    Has anyone actually tried this alternative?

    If I'm riding alone, I'm with Chollaball's mindset. However for the McDowell AES ride, that is not going to work. The loop around the McDowells is a really nice one - there has to be a way to make it work.


    BTW, I have seen plans for a trail from the top of Sunrise to the Western Loop trail. THis would make this problem go away, but I'm guessing that it'll be years before that actually happens.

  11. #11
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    Scottsdale would rather spend our tax dollars on another trail right near Lost Dog instead.

    Work could start soon on Mtn. View Trail in Scottsdale
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    Thanks, not interested in causing issues in Hidden Hills.
    why? afraid they are going to deny you access? this is a job for TrailDoc!
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    why? afraid they are going to deny you access? this is a job for TrailDoc!
    Damn straight. While I've only ridden the McDowells twice,and through Hidden Hills three times, this is friggin ridicilious. Time to OccupyBikeSeat!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb View Post
    Has anyone actually tried this alternative?

    If I'm riding alone, I'm with Chollaball's mindset. However for the McDowell AES ride, that is not going to work. The loop around the McDowells is a really nice one - there has to be a way to make it work.


    BTW, I have seen plans for a trail from the top of Sunrise to the Western Loop trail. THis would make this problem go away, but I'm guessing that it'll be years before that actually happens.
    Not immediately, but probably not years, my understanding from when I spoke with a few of the Planners ~6months ago was that it was in progress or nearly so.

    This whole topic is a joke - we tried the letter-writing and phone call route. The city planning committee (or whatever it is called...) voted to keep the easement, but at the last minute out of committee the decision was made to close it. Clearly someone made a decision based on influence, not research and evaluation. Politics is about power, political change is about conflict. The more you haul your bike over the gate and ride through the neighborhood the more of a public service you are doing to all the bubble-living Scottsdale wankers. Calls to the cops and calls to the city will HELP get the easement reopened\built\etc.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    Not immediately, but probably not years, my understanding from when I spoke with a few of the Planners ~6months ago was that it was in progress or nearly so.

    This whole topic is a joke - we tried the letter-writing and phone call route. The city planning committee (or whatever it is called...) voted to keep the easement, but at the last minute out of committee the decision was made to close it. Clearly someone made a decision based on influence, not research and evaluation. Politics is about power, political change is about conflict. The more you haul your bike over the gate and ride through the neighborhood the more of a public service you are doing to all the bubble-living Scottsdale wankers. Calls to the cops and calls to the city will HELP get the easement reopened\built\etc.
    I'll see if I can find the update I read just the other day on the Bike Haus website, they had a city person saying that the bypass likely won't be ready anytime in 2012 and that Hidden Hills would remain closed until the bypass is completed.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris View Post
    I'll see if I can find the update I read just the other day on the Bike Haus website, they had a city person saying that the bypass likely won't be ready anytime in 2012 and the gates into Hidden Hills would remain closed until the bypass is completed.
    FIFY. Gosh, the more I think about this, the more pissed I get. And I don't even have a dog in this fight. What a bunch of snobs. If I ever ride up there, and need to get from one end to the other, I'm 100% waiting for a car to enter or exit, and I'm riding through there loud and proud. I encourage all you regulars to do the same.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  17. #17
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    "Sorry folks, parks closed, the big moose out front should have told you...."

    Eff that....If I drive across the country to go to Wally World....I'm gonna man up like a Griswald and go to Wally World.
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  18. #18
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    ......ohh, and while I'm on the subject of ridiculous McDowell/Scottsdale snobbery....the sign at the preserve says no weapons allowed except for guns and knives.........personally, If I choose to defend myself with my bowstaff, I'm gonna carry a bowstaff and Carla can just shove it......




  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    ......ohh, and while I'm on the subject of ridiculous McDowell/Scottsdale snobbery....the sign at the preserve says no weapons allowed except for guns and knives.........personally, If I choose to defend myself with my bowstaff, I'm gonna carry a bowstaff and Carla can just shove it......
    well duh, they can't ban guns unless they provide a locker and an armed guard.

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    well duh, they can't ban guns unless they provide a locker and an armed guard.

    do you wanna ride tonight, or hella early tomorrow?
    hella early...I'm heading out now.




  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb View Post
    Has anyone actually tried this alternative?
    Jeff, I'll check this out, as it's close to me...I know the route...it takes you under Via Linda out of the parking lot, then into a wash, then a HAB up the other side to a ridge. I don't know how hiked or ridden in it is (likely not ridden at all, thus far), but I'll check it out.
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  22. #22
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    Aw f*ck...I was hoping this topic would never come up again because it makes my effing blood boil. We had a long debate about this on MTBR a while ago -- that easement was planned by the city prior to any houses being built in Hidden Hills and it was supposed to have been permanent (contrary to the opinions of some)...but...as with anything political...the sands shifted...opinions turned against us...and the cycling community got the fist up the bung hole.

    So as Randy now points out, there is no feasible way to get from the trailhead at Via Linda over to the Fountain Hills side. The only way I can think of is to ride down Via Linda to 136th, take that to Shea, ride up Shea and take a left into Eagle Mountain, and then somehow figure out how to get through. And even that might be encroaching on more gated communities that we are not allowed in.

    Personally, I *hate* gated communities and think they are a detriment to the concept of "community"....but that's a debate for another time and place.

    So for now, we have to deal with the reality that the loops around the McDowell's are no longer possible without a lot of road miles. We also have to deal with the reality that we are at the mercy of the city. I guess the only thing we can do is write and call the Scottsdale city council and make our case to either (a) open the easement back up or (b) fund a trail to connect Via Linda to Fountain Hills. After all, it's our tax payer money that is at stake.

    Thx...Doug

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    my guess is the calls will do no good. Plenty of calls were made. The decision to close the easement was made 11th hour, with no transparency that i've seen. Better imo would be to cut through and have the residents call so the city managers go "WTF, we gave you what you want already." then the HOA will hem and haw and after spending $$ on the bigger gate, will have to tap their membership again for money for a security guard, all for a few mtbrs who you are not going to stop anyway. Or they will call the police, who will be obligated to deal with the call but the odds of an mtbr getting caught are so slim, that the police will now have a lot of calls resulting in nothing and they too eventually will tell the HOA that there is little they can do. #OccupyHiddenHills, yo.
    You're right - the calls won't do much. But enough of them *might*.

    Anyway, there's just one flaw in your plan for cutting through the community. Have you actually tried it? On my road ride last week I went up to that gate and tried to see how to get through it. After some roaming around...I finally determined there is no effing way to get over or around it! The gate itself is over 6' tall, and the mesh that makes up the gate is very tight so you can't get a shoe into a hole for a foothold.

    So aside from throwing your bike over the gate (literally) and taking a leaping run at the gate to get over it...there's just no way. Even the sidewalk is gated.

    Mothereffers. Now I'm really pissed off. I wish I never read this thread.

    BTW...as a Plan B, does anybody have a beater truck they want to loan for the purposes of ramming that gate down?


    Thx...Doug

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi View Post
    Aw f*ck...I was hoping this topic would never come up again because it makes my effing blood boil. We had a long debate about this on MTBR a while ago -- that easement was planned by the city prior to any houses being built in Hidden Hills and it was supposed to have been permanent (contrary to the opinions of some)...but...as with anything political...the sands shifted...opinions turned against us...and the cycling community got the fist up the bung hole.

    So as Randy now points out, there is no feasible way to get from the trailhead at Via Linda over to the Fountain Hills side. The only way I can think of is to ride down Via Linda to 136th, take that to Shea, ride up Shea and take a left into Eagle Mountain, and then somehow figure out how to get through. And even that might be encroaching on more gated communities that we are not allowed in.

    Personally, I *hate* gated communities and think they are a detriment to the concept of "community"....but that's a debate for another time and place.

    So for now, we have to deal with the reality that the loops around the McDowell's are no longer possible without a lot of road miles. We also have to deal with the reality that we are at the mercy of the city. I guess the only thing we can do is write and call the Scottsdale city council and make our case to either (a) open the easement back up or (b) fund a trail to connect Via Linda to Fountain Hills. After all, it's our tax payer money that is at stake.

    Thx...Doug
    my guess is the calls will do no good. Plenty of calls were made. The decision to close the easement was made 11th hour, with no transparency that i've seen. Better imo would be to cut through and have the residents call so the city managers go "WTF, we gave you what you want already." then the HOA will hem and haw and after spending $$ on the bigger gate, will have to tap their membership again for money for a security guard, all for a few mtbrs who you are not going to stop anyway. Or they will call the police, who will be obligated to deal with the call but the odds of an mtbr getting caught are so slim, that the police will now have a lot of calls resulting in nothing and they too eventually will tell the HOA that there is little they can do. #OccupyHiddenHills, yo.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Jeff, I'll check this out, as it's close to me...I know the route...it takes you under Via Linda out of the parking lot, then into a wash, then a HAB up the other side to a ridge. I don't know how hiked or ridden in it is (likely not ridden at all, thus far), but I'll check it out.
    Be sure to bring some goodies with you.
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  26. #26
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    Eff Scottsdale

    This pretty much sums it up.

    First sign is on Via Linda about 1/2 mile from the top.

    2nd sign is on Via Linda just before the entrance to Hidden Hills.

    I bet the folks who make the rules about a "bicycling friendly community" would love to see this.

    Until that easement is opened back up...eff Scottsdale.


    Thx...Doug
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb View Post
    Has anyone actually tried this alternative?

    If I'm riding alone, I'm with Chollaball's mindset. However for the McDowell AES ride, that is not going to work. The loop around the McDowells is a really nice one - there has to be a way to make it work.


    BTW, I have seen plans for a trail from the top of Sunrise to the Western Loop trail. THis would make this problem go away, but I'm guessing that it'll be years before that actually happens.
    It's from a gps track log so somebody rode it. There sure won't be any roadies going up that abandoned jeep road. You can get a good look at much of the abandoned jeep road from Via Linda. Only the lower part looks gnarly, improving as it climbs.

  28. #28
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    Transportation Commission members said at the meeting they wanted to make clear that the city wasn't giving up the future rights to the easement, it just wasn't ready to spend $250,000 to pave it.
    Cyclists to lose access to Hidden Hills, at least for now
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi View Post
    You're right - the calls won't do much. But enough of them *might*.

    Anyway, there's just one flaw in your plan for cutting through the community. Have you actually tried it? On my road ride last week I went up to that gate and tried to see how to get through it. After some roaming around...I finally determined there is no effing way to get over or around it! The gate itself is over 6' tall, and the mesh that makes up the gate is very tight so you can't get a shoe into a hole for a foothold.

    So aside from throwing your bike over the gate (literally) and taking a leaping run at the gate to get over it...there's just no way. Even the sidewalk is gated.

    Mothereffers. Now I'm really pissed off. I wish I never read this thread.

    BTW...as a Plan B, does anybody have a beater truck they want to loan for the purposes of ramming that gate down?


    Thx...Doug
    seriously? that gate is across 100 yards of desert. Guess I'd have to see it in person, but looking at google there seems to be plenty of ways around if you dont mind a little bushwacking. Whatever...there are always ways through a gate. I'm not worried.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    my guess is the calls will do no good. Plenty of calls were made. The decision to close the easement was made 11th hour, with no transparency that i've seen. Better imo would be to cut through and have the residents call so the city managers go "WTF, we gave you what you want already." then the HOA will hem and haw and after spending $$ on the bigger gate, will have to tap their membership again for money for a security guard, all for a few mtbrs who you are not going to stop anyway. Or they will call the police, who will be obligated to deal with the call but the odds of an mtbr getting caught are so slim, that the police will now have a lot of calls resulting in nothing and they too eventually will tell the HOA that there is little they can do. #OccupyHiddenHills, yo.
    That about sums it up.

  31. #31
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    Any attorneys here:
    I am pretty sure this falls under one of these ARS codes:

    41-1442. Discrimination in places of public accommodation; exceptions
    A. Discrimination in places of public accommodation against any person because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin or ancestry is contrary to the policy of this state and shall be deemed unlawful.
    B. No person, directly or indirectly, shall refuse to, withhold from or deny to any person, nor aid in or incite the refusal to deny or withhold, accommodations, advantages, facilities or privileges thereof because of race, color, religion, sex, national origin or ancestry, nor shall distinction be made with respect to any person based on race, color, religion, sex, national origin or ancestry in connection with the price or quality of any item, goods or services offered by or at any place of public accommodation.
    C. Any person who is under the influence of alcohol or narcotics, who is guilty of boisterous conduct, who is of lewd or immoral character, who is physically violent or who violates any regulation of any place of public accommodation that applies to all persons regardless of race, color, religion, sex, national origin or ancestry may be excluded from any place of public accommodation and nothing in this article shall be considered to limit the right of such exclusion.
    D. Notwithstanding any other provision of this article and except as required by federal law, it is not an unlawful practice if a person fails to provide a trained and competent bilingual person who is skilled in interpreting a language other than English to assist a person who is seeking services at a place of public accommodation. Notwithstanding any other provision of this article and except as required by federal law, a person who offers a service at a place of public accommodation is not required to provide a person who is seeking the service any form or other documentation in that person's native language.
    E. It is not an unlawful practice pursuant to this section for a person to fail to provide service at a place of public accommodation if by providing the service the person offering the service would violate a state or federal law or a rule that is adopted by a state or federal board, commission or agency that has jurisdiction over the person offering the service.


    40-334. Discrimination between persons, localities or classes of service as to rates, charges, service or facilities prohibited
    A. A public service corporation shall not, as to rates, charges, service, facilities or in any other respect, make or grant any preference or advantage to any person or subject any person to any prejudice or disadvantage.
    B. No public service corporation shall establish or maintain any unreasonable difference as to rates, charges, service, facilities or in any other respect, either between localities or between classes of service.
    C. The commission may determine any question of fact arising under this section.
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  32. #32
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    By closing the access to a State/City trailhead and allowing access only to residents that is discrimination.
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    That statute has no application. The sign does not say, "Mtb'ers who are members of Al Queida are not allowed to ride through Hidden Hills. All other religions welcome!"

    What the sign says is "Non-resident mtb'ers of any religion cannot ride through here, despite the fact that when we built our homes we knew that non-resident cyclists had an easement through this property, but we figured we would just agree to that condition, get our homes built, then bribe some local officials to give up the easement."

    Or are you arguing that the discrimination is toward non-residents? If so, you should note that the classifications in the statute are:

    race, color, religion, sex, national origin or ancestry
    Which of those classifications do you interpret to be synonymous with non-resident?
    Last edited by happyriding; 05-03-2012 at 05:16 PM.

  34. #34
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    WTF does this have to do with religion ?

  35. #35
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    I say we wait for Waltz feedback and just find away around the ass hats little village.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Jeff, I'll check this out, as it's close to me...I know the route...it takes you under Via Linda out of the parking lot, then into a wash, then a HAB up the other side to a ridge. I don't know how hiked or ridden in it is (likely not ridden at all, thus far), but I'll check it out.
    Thanks dude. From the satellite map it looks pretty doable. My only concern is that it looks like it cuts right through someone's yard - and we all know how that's going to go over.

    Where I used to live back east we had trails decimated by housing developments on a pretty regular basis. We always found a way around, often creating some cool trails in the process. There were encounters with homeowners and rides disrupted by the police, but in the end we always found a way to ride. I despise the attitude that created this situation as much as anyone, but I think our best bet is to adapt.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    seriously? that gate is across 100 yards of desert. Guess I'd have to see it in person, but looking at google there seems to be plenty of ways around if you dont mind a little bushwacking. Whatever...there are always ways through a gate. I'm not worried.
    Ya seriously. There is no way to get you and your bike over or around that gate. On the sides of the moving gates there is a 6' high wrought iron fence that continues all the way around the entire community.

    Like I said before, unless you are willing to literally throw your bike over the gate and make a running leap to get yourself over, there is no chance...especially for us shorties.

    Go check it out yourself. I'm OK with a little law-breaking in this situation...but I physically cannot do it.

    Thx...Doug

  38. #38
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by dgangi View Post
    Ya seriously. There is no way to get you and your bike over or around that gate. On the sides of the moving gates there is a 6' high wrought iron fence that continues all the way around the entire community.

    Like I said before, unless you are willing to literally throw your bike over the gate and make a running leap to get yourself over, there is no chance...especially for us shorties.

    Go check it out yourself. I'm OK with a little law-breaking in this situation...but I physically cannot do it.

    Thx...Doug
    beater truck sounding much better. following a car in sounds best. I think i will pee on the street when i do. If there is a bench i might drop a deuce.
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  39. #39
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    ....or, you could follow Occam's Razor and just hang out and wait until a car enters or leaves and go through the open gate.....




  40. #40
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    ....or, you could follow Occam's Razor and just hang out and wait until a car enters or leaves and go through the open gate.....
    Points for an Occam's Razor reference...my favorite principle...
    Ride more; post less...

  41. #41
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    I just can't stand f***** HOA's ..... and the attitude that they foster... I will gladly ride up as a guest when gate opens.............. just to f**** piss'em off... Snottsdale at it's finest... I need to move to a blue state or at least a blue county.

  42. #42
    Dirt Merchant
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    Blue County? As in no alcohol!?!?! I'll stay red thanks!
    Keep pedalin'. You can catch your breath on the downhill!

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  43. #43
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    FWIW, the path that completes the connection between Scottsdale and Fountain Hills through the Hidden Hills community is almost completed. It seems likely that the easement will be re-instated in the somewhat near future.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by wturber View Post
    FWIW, the path that completes the connection between Scottsdale and Fountain Hills through the Hidden Hills community is almost completed. It seems likely that the easement will be re-instated in the somewhat near future.
    Interesting, but not that important anymore. Andrews-Kinsey is a much better choice for going around the mountain.

    Would be be a good addition for Spines To Pines though...

  45. #45
    DFL>DNF>DNS
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb View Post
    Would be be a good addition for Spines To Pines though...
    You're my eyes on the ground Jeffro. I'll update the track when it's official. I'd love to give that route a test run next year, not sure if I'll have the time. Maybe do half of it??
    My Two Schillingsworth


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