Nightmare on Lemmon...- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Nightmare on Lemmon...

    So, some of you may have seen my thread about a trip up to Mt Lemmon in Tucson this weekend. We threw around some ideas starting with doing Clear Spring Trail but was convinced by some here and some on tucsonmtb.com to instead head all the way to the top of Lemmon and do a loop around/near the top followed by the descent down Aspen Draw trail off to the east of the ski lift area.

    I got the following map from a guy on tucsonmtb.com



    Seemed pretty straight forward. Didn't really have a feel for how long it would be but, hell, let's play it by ear and run with it. What's the worst that can happen, right?

    Myself and two buddies had the Mrs drop us off around the ADL004/5/6 cluster in a parking lot right at the end of the road (Alex, Ian, Myself)



    We saw near the bathroom a nice map pointing the way. I referenced the printed map (above) that I brought with me and the general route on the sign looked to be the same as what I was seeing on my map. On my map the only trail that's labeled that actually exists was the Meadow Trail. Don't know what Flowers, Tucson, Wildfire or Wide Trail mean but I saw no signs with that on them anywhere. The sign showed that we would probably wanna take Lemmon Trail to Wilderness to Lemmon Rock. It had mileage that accumulated to near 11 or 12 miles. That sounds like a reasonable trail to me.

    So, we start scooting down the trail. I was loving it. It's downhill, flowing nicely with some switchbacks and plenty of smaller steps down with a couple big one's here and there.



    Alex and Ian were not as skilled so I kinda bombed down and waited for them here and there so I didn't get too far ahead. I trusted they would ride at their own comfort level and not kill themselves. Well, they didn't kill themselves but they put a good hurting on themselves heading OTB a few times.



    I stopped here at the intersection of Meadow & Mt Lemmon trail.



    Said "hey" to a group of people that were heading to rappel down a rock face nearby...



    And the view through some of the burned out trees on the back side of Lemmon.



    Little did I know that this quick, 18 minute, mile trip (probably closer to 13 or 14 minutes as I did a bit of waiting) was the entire leg of this section. We were supposed to head right back towards the parking lot and on to the Aspen Draw Trail. It never even occurred to me the trail recommended would be something that could be cleaned in under an hour. So, without even consulting the map I assumed there must certainly be more ahead of us so we continued on away from the parking lot.

    I took advantage of being a little quicker and took some photos just for all of you out in MTBR land...

    Pretty typical section of the downhill. Narrow single track with steps here and there...



    In many places VERY overgrown. Some places had those nice THORNY branches that felt wonderful as your naked shins glided through them...



    More single track on the side of the mountain...



    Here and there it would open up a tad to some loose gravel thrown in amongst the drops and switchbacks...





    A section after Alex's second trip OTB that he decided to walk...



    A few sections of smooth rock face down were scattered here and there, usually accompanied by weaving through rocks.



    A short section of uphill through some loose, chunky rocks. Alex is HaBing his way up...



    And finally to the merge with Wilderness Trail. Took a break, got a group photo...



    As well as Alex's shins from 3 OTB sessions...



    The wilderness trail. Wow, after experiencing it first hand I don't know that I would want to hike it. Let alone try to ride it. You can't ride it. 20% of it was ride 40 feet, get off carry your bike up and over some boulders. The other 80% was carry your bike up and over some boulders. Didn't know until later that it's called the Wildnerness of Rocks Trail. Never wanna see it again. And this was one of the easy sections. It was about mile down this trail we moved from having fun to WtF are we doing? I stopped worrying about taking pictures and just wanted to get the hell out.



    About 100' of a rarely rideable section of Wilderness...





    Stopped taking pictures here. This **** wasn't even remotely fun any longer. We've ridden for approximately 5 miles and for the past two miles we've been pushing our godamn bikes up and over boulders, crossing the stream back and forth.

    Not having any fun at all.

    We came to the junction of the Lemon Rock Lookout Trail and Ian's GPS unit said that trail was only a couple miles but it was steep as hell. Following Wilderness was longer but less climbing. Considering we were doing nothing more than HaBing we came to the conclusion that the steeper trail would DEFINITELY be more HaB. The long trail just might give us the opportunity to RIDE our bikes so we went that way.

    Less than a mile further ahead Alex started feeling ill. He had emptied his 70oz bladder (remember we figured this was supposed to be a 2 hour trek) and Ian wasn't doing a lot better. I kept giving Alex hits off my Camelbak. At one point we stopped and dunked our heads in the creek. I took off my shirt and soaked it as well. Shortly up the road we stopped again and Alex really needed a rest. He said, "there's no reason for me to hold everyone up. Go on, I'll catch up." We weren't having any of that.

    I didn't feel too bad at all. I was tired from all the damn HaBing but wasn't feeling dehydrated or anything. I had no idea how much water I had left but I was feeling the best out of the three so I decided I would head on ahead with their bladders, get the hell out, meet the Mrs, get the Gatorade we had waiting, refill the bladders and head back down the trail to meet them as they make their way out at a very slow pace so as to not kill themselves.

    So, I make my way out, pushing my increasingly heavy bike up an increasingly steep incline. There were small sections that I was able to ride but even simple obstacles had me getting off 'cause I was just beat. I was chewing gum like it was going out of style (my jaw STILL hurts tonight) just to keep any extra bit of juice in my mouth. I'd take a mouthful of water VERY rarely. I passed a few people including a group of boy scouts...

    So, I'm chugging along as quickly as I can. I keep looking up at the radio towers 'cause I know that's where I gotta go. The Mrs will be meeting us either at the parking lot they dropped us off at or in the ski lift parking lot, both of which are at the top of the hill. Catching up with them was a priority so they wouldn't be worried and they had the drinks we needed.

    But, this damn trail is not taking me directly there. Wonderful. Finally I meet up at the junction of Wilderness and Aspen. I really DO NOT wanna climb another 1000' up to the peak but I don't have much choice.

    Texts have been working intermittently but my phone seemed to be working worse than others. I shot the girls a text and told them I was heading up Aspen and if they can get a hold of Alex & Ian they should follow that route as that's the way I'd be coming back down to meet them with fresh bladders and Gatorade.

    After an excrutiating climb up the Aspen trail, some sections I could only push/carry the bike 50 yards before I needed to rest, I finally got to the top. As luck would have it there is NO water source at the top. Lucky me. As I'm talking with the guy that's manning the chair lift I hear another guy ON the lift. Sounds like he's talking to me so I look and point to myself and he shakes his head, yes.

    I wait and he gets off and asks me if I'm with two girls. Tell 'em yep. He says they are down in the lot waiting and worried. Says the way down is Aspen Draw and points me to it. "Yeah!" I've been looking forward to this sunnufabeetch all day and now I get to run it when I'm completely on empty.

    So, I start running down it. Nice trail, definitely fun. Tight switchbacks, one of which forced me face-first into a tree. Got the arms out just in time to avoid any damage. Got a TERRIBLE cramp in my right calf trying to avoid the pain of eating a tree. Got back on the bike in my descent position (leaning back behind the seat) and the stretch helped the calf. Whoops, gotta pedal now and OOOOOWWWWW! Calf cramps right back up again. Stood with my toes against a tree and stretched it for a couple minutes and it all seemed to be better.

    Finished bombing down the trail only walking a couple sections I just didn't have the strength to try to fight down. Made it out the Mt Lemmon Highway to see the Mrs jumping for joy

    Went to the truck, put the bike on the rack, dropped a 24 oz bottle of Gatorade in 3 or 4 mouthfuls and got the update from the girls.

    Not too long after I left they started to feel a little better so they started moving. Alex wound up puking but said he felt much better after doing so. As luck would have it not far up the road they ran into the Boy Scouts who were setting up camp. Always being prepared the scouts hooked them up with water. The Scouts also told them that at the junction if they take the Mint Spring Trail it'll be mostly downhill and drops them off right in Summerhaven. A route I would've taken except I knew where the girls where and needed to find them. So, combined with the breather and the water from the Scouts they were feeling much better and went off again.

    Alex and Ian texted the girls and told them the plan to take Mint Springs so we got everything loaded and went into Summerhaven looking for the Mint Springs trailhead. Found it and the girls took off down the trail with the Gatorade to meet them. I was dragging so slow that they got way ahead of me on the trail. All the HaBing was torture on my right knee (thus the reason I ride bikes and not run for physical fitness) so I shot 'em a text and they replied the just met up with them. Head to the general store and get more liquids. So, I lumbered down the trail to the truck and off to the store. Got some more Gatorade and water and back to the trailhead.

    I know the trip sucked and they were pissed, as I probably woud've been, but they had smiles on their faces after getting off that trail...



    One final group photo before I'm excommunicated as a friend...



    And the damage from 3 OTBs to Alex's legs (his arms were pretty beat up as well)...



    Ian's damage from 1 OTB (Alex was usually ahead of Ian so I think Ian had more time to stop)



    And I got off extremely lucky with much more minor cuts and scratches...



    So, what should've been MAYBE a two hour, 4 mile ride turned into an 11 mile, 8 hour fight against the meanest trail I've seen in some time.



    We started at 9100', dropped all the way down to 6900' and then back up to 9000'. 3255' of elevation loss and 2538' of elevation gain. And, well over 90% of that elevation gain was HaB

    The yellow track is the route we were SUPPOSED to take. The blue track is where we went. Up to the halfway point it was fun downhill stuff. I knew it was gonna be tough getting back up all that elevation. I assumed we'd be riding up it. Not so...



    Moral(s) of the story?

    1. Don't let Mike pick the trails.
    2. Don't let Mike guide you through trails he's never seen.
    3. Make sure you have the best available, very detailed map AND instructions on what trails you are taking. A good map isn't much help if you don't know the trails.
    4. Prepare for the worst. 70oz of water should have been plenty. It wasn't. I think my Katadyn filter will be going in my pack next long trip.
    5. Find smarter friends than Mike

    Hopefully, now that we are all safe and sound we can look back at this and laugh. I'm still pissed at myself for not being more sure of where we were supposed to be going but there's not much crying over spilled milk now, eh?

    I don't expect many of you read this entire post but if you did I hope you enjoyed it. Hopefully, my next trip report will be a happy shredding report and not a lucky to be alive report.

  2. #2
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    I'm sure others will have a "moral of the story." I think, at some point, whether hiking, biking....whatever...we've all been there and learned lessons the hard way.

    But, remember.....you now have a story...

  3. #3
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    Nice write up. Glad everyone made it back and you all have a war story now ................Drew

  4. #4
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    Nice..but I would pull down the pic where you rode past the entering wilderness area sign and the GPS of having your bikes in wilderness for 3 hours before "The Man" comes after you LOL

  5. #5
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    Now THAT's an adventure!

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by slugobikes
    Nice..but I would pull down the pic where you rode past the entering wilderness area sign and the GPS of having your bikes in wilderness for 3 hours before "The Man" comes after you LOL
    Saw no such sign Looking at the pics closer it says, "This area has been impacted by overuse. Please practice low impact backcountry ethics." I really couldn't tell you what that's supposed to mean... If that means "no bikes" why not just say it? I would've been HAPPY to stay out.

    Another lesson I guess... and I need new shoes now, too. All that HaBing tore my bike shoes' soles up.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Saw no such sign Looking at the pics closer it says, "This area has been impacted by overuse. Please practice low impact backcountry ethics." I really couldn't tell you what that's supposed to mean... If that means "no bikes" why not just say it? I would've been HAPPY to stay out.

    Another lesson I guess... and I need new shoes now, too. All that HaBing tore my bike shoes' soles up.
    my Diadora MTB shoes, I have had them 20 years now. I don't know if they still make them this well but Nashbar always has them on sale.
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  8. #8
    dirt visionary
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    Cool story glad you all made it out alright. As a person who likes to explore on a bike I can tell you both myself and my riding buddy have done this type of thing solo or together at least a few times.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
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  9. #9
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    sweet - by next weekend all the bad parts will be forgotten and you'll be talking with the friends about how great that ride was and what the next epic will be

  10. #10
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    I feel your pain

    I got myself and a friend (probably former now) out on a bikepacking adventure on the AZT from Parker Canyon Lake to Patagonia this weekend and it was absolutely brutal. For 20 hours on the trail we made it about only 36 miles (with a nasty SIGNED navigation snafu). I've yet to check the GPS. I'll have a post of my own sometime soon but its nice to know we weren't the only ones out there trudging through a sufferfest. I thought I knew what a deathmarch was, turns out there are deep, deep levels, like Dantes 7 levels of Hell, to any deathmarch. I think we were close to the bottom and it includes induced delerium. Glad you all made it out safely! HAB is great penetance for past sins MTB related or otherwise.
    Today's the day I eat bikes.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dag Nabbit
    I got myself and a friend (probably former now) out on a bikepacking adventure on the AZT from Parker Canyon Lake to Patagonia this weekend and it was absolutely brutal.
    I enjoy the that section of the AZT The AZT 300 racers generally do that Canelos section (from Parker to Patagonia) in about 5-6 hours.

  12. #12
    suvlako
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    Plenty of trails to get lost on up there. Glad you made it out in one piece. Give me a call next time and we'll see about getting you a guided tour...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by azepicriderandrunner
    I enjoy the that section of the AZT The AZT 300 racers generally do that Canelos section (from Parker to Patagonia) in about 5-6 hours.
    Sure....rub it in. I was aware of the splits and gave ourselves a healthy addition of time to make it, but we weren't even close. I figured we'd camp outside Patagoina the first night, maybe on Salero road. It took us 9 hours just to get to Canelo Pass. Ouch. You guys have the blood of Olympians.
    Today's the day I eat bikes.

  14. #14
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    I agree with slugobikes as cool as a trail as that is it is strictly hiking only. I would also remove the references to where you dropped from the yellow line on your map to the blue as that was all wilderness designation area.

    For future reference pretty much anything on going up side of Mt. Lemmon highway is legal biking trails. Anything on the going down side, prison camp excepted, is wilderness area which means hiking only. Sorry to ride on your parade a bit cause it looks like a cool ride but cool is no excuse for not knowing the rules, especially when you pass the rangers station on the way up which has plenty of maps and information regarding riding in the area.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    I agree with slugobikes as cool as a trail as that is it is strictly hiking only.
    If I'd know beforehand there's absolutely NO WAY I would've went down it...

    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    I would also remove the references to where you dropped from the yellow line on your map to the blue as that was all wilderness designation area.

    For future reference pretty much anything on going up side of Mt. Lemmon highway is legal biking trails. Anything on the going down side, prison camp excepted, is wilderness area which means hiking only. Sorry to ride on your parade a bit cause it looks like a cool ride but cool is no excuse for not knowing the rules, especially when you pass the rangers station on the way up which has plenty of maps and information regarding riding in the area.
    No, it wasn't a cool ride Well, the first 2 miles was...

    Didn't see a Ranger Station. All I saw was the sign with the map but didn't notice anything saying no bikes here or there. Didn't see any sign designating anything as a Wilderness Area, either. Just the sign that said to "practice low impact backcountry ethics" which, even after some quick googling, doesn't mean no bikes. I know ignorance is no excuse... But, I wasn't going out looking to ride an illegal trail. Just got off track from where I thought we were supposed to be...

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockcrusher
    For future reference pretty much anything on going up side of Mt. Lemmon highway is legal biking trails. Anything on the going down side, prison camp excepted, is wilderness area which means hiking only.
    1918 and Sunset are also exceptions to this rule.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dag Nabbit
    You guys have the blood of Olympians.
    Spartans, I prefer Spartan blood.

    I have been doing these type of rides for a number of years now and got down the whole ride-your-bike-all-day thing. Keep it riding one big ride a weekend and you will be matching those splits.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    If I'd know beforehand there's absolutely NO WAY I would've went down it...


    No, it wasn't a cool ride Well, the first 2 miles was...

    Didn't see a Ranger Station. All I saw was the sign with the map but didn't notice anything saying no bikes here or there. Didn't see any sign designating anything as a Wilderness Area, either. Just the sign that said to "practice low impact backcountry ethics" which, even after some quick googling, doesn't mean no bikes. I know ignorance is no excuse... But, I wasn't going out looking to ride an illegal trail. Just got off track from where I thought we were supposed to be...
    ignorance is no excuse?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    If I'd know beforehand there's absolutely NO WAY I would've went down it...


    No, it wasn't a cool ride Well, the first 2 miles was...

    Didn't see a Ranger Station. All I saw was the sign with the map but didn't notice anything saying no bikes here or there. Didn't see any sign designating anything as a Wilderness Area, either. Just the sign that said to "practice low impact backcountry ethics" which, even after some quick googling, doesn't mean no bikes. I know ignorance is no excuse... But, I wasn't going out looking to ride an illegal trail. Just got off track from where I thought we were supposed to be...
    Hhmmmm, Devil's Advocate would state that you should be punished.

    (Of course I'm busting your chops...kinda, sorta.)
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Hhmmmm, Devil's Advocate would state that you should be punished.

    (Of course I'm busting your chops...kinda, sorta.)
    Unwittingly or not, he stole those trails.
    The penalty is stiff. no excuses.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    Unwittingly or not, he stole those trails.
    The penalty is stiff. no excuses.
    Death?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Death?

    of course.
    what else? theft is theft. no excuses. no questions. it is what it is. I don't want to here anything else about it.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    Unwittingly or not, he stole those trails.
    The penalty is stiff. no excuses.
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Death?
    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    of course.
    what else? theft is theft. no excuses. no questions. it is what it is. I don't want to here anything else about it.
    So what finally got the panties knotted tight enough to have that "stealing" thread removed?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    So what finally got the panties knotted tight enough to have that "stealing" thread removed?
    I think between you and skinny tire bickering, and cesslinger's pictures, it was to much for the mods to handle.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    If I'd know beforehand there's absolutely NO WAY I would've went down it...


    No, it wasn't a cool ride Well, the first 2 miles was...

    Didn't see a Ranger Station. All I saw was the sign with the map but didn't notice anything saying no bikes here or there. Didn't see any sign designating anything as a Wilderness Area, either. Just the sign that said to "practice low impact backcountry ethics" which, even after some quick googling, doesn't mean no bikes. I know ignorance is no excuse... But, I wasn't going out looking to ride an illegal trail. Just got off track from where I thought we were supposed to be...
    No biggie to me I just happen to know for a fact that a couple riders down here were prosecuted and fined for riding illegal trails on Lemmon after posting up pics and such.

  26. #26
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    I think that forgivness is in order rather than such criticism, this apparently was an accidental violation based on inexperience and ignorance. I think it should all stay up for the benefit of those who need to know these things can happen and that we need to pay better attention when we ride in unfamilier areas.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    I think that forgivness is in order rather than such criticism, this apparently was an accidental violation based on inexperience and ignorance. I think it should all stay up for the benefit of those who need to know these things can happen and that we need to pay better attention when we ride in unfamilier areas.
    That's a very noble response to Mikes illegal actions, however it sounds like you missed the thread with Mike's long arguments about scofflaws being killed.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    That's a very noble response to Mikes illegal actions, however it sounds like you missed the thread with Mike's long arguments about scofflaws being killed.
    yes, it seems hypocrisy is okay.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Hhmmmm, Devil's Advocate would state that you should be punished.
    Certainly...

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    I think between you and skinny tire bickering, and cesslinger's pictures, it was to much for the mods to handle.
    Bickering? I thought we were having a fairly decent conversation, disagreements of the usefulness of most violent criminals aside.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    I think that forgivness is in order rather than such criticism, this apparently was an accidental violation based on inexperience and ignorance. I think it should all stay up for the benefit of those who need to know these things can happen and that we need to pay better attention when we ride in unfamilier areas.
    That's a very noble response to Mikes illegal actions, however it sounds like you missed the thread with Mike's long arguments about scofflaws being killed.
    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    yes, it seems hypocrisy is okay.
    What is feebly trying to be argued is that because I believe:

    1. People who murder in cold blood should be executed;
    2. People that drive drunk and murder people should be executed;
    3. People that rape women (or men) and molest children should be executed;

    Because I think most of the REALLY bad people in society should be executed it is therefore a given that people who break relatively minor laws should also be executed.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Because I think most of the REALLY bad people in society should be executed it is therefore a given that people who break relatively minor laws should also be executed.
    Let's just put 'em all on a boat and ship 'em to Australia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Let's just put 'em all on a boat and ship 'em to Australia.
    Australia is far too nice for scumbags

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Certainly...


    Bickering? I thought we were having a fairly decent conversation, disagreements of the usefulness of most violent criminals aside.



    What is feebly trying to be argued is that because I believe:

    1. People who murder in cold blood should be executed;
    2. People that drive drunk and murder people should be executed;
    3. People that rape women (or men) and molest children should be executed;

    Because I think most of the REALLY bad people in society should be executed it is therefore a given that people who break relatively minor laws should also be executed.
    so killing Allah's children is the answer?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Australia is far too nice for scumbags
    Not everybody has had that thought...
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  34. #34
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    Good job! I've done that hike (with full backpacks)

    My wife and I did this with 40-50lb packs as training one year in prep for
    a 2 week long climbing trip through Wyoming
    (Tetons, Wind River, Devils Tower, Needles SoDak)

    Start out at the parking lot, head past the substation, down the fire road, to the turnoff to the trail (just past the fire lookout) Lemmon Lookout Trail.. (it is *steep*!)
    down down down.. till you hit the bottom.. then along the 'wilderness of rocks' trail..

    Not a bike trail by any means IIRC and like others have already mentioned
    wilderness.

    Then you head back up, and join the fire road eventually, then back to where you
    started.

    seems like it was an 8-12mi loop?
    Definitely epic!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Now that you mention it Australia is a LARGE percentage seriously wild backcountry. Like good stuff on the coast but thousands of miles of absolutely nothing in between? Something like 8 of the most poisonous creatures live in the Outback?

    Quote Originally Posted by honemastert
    My wife and I did this with 40-50lb packs as training one year in prep for a 2 week long climbing trip through Wyoming (Tetons, Wind River, Devils Tower, Needles SoDak)

    seems like it was an 8-12mi loop?
    Definitely epic!
    Epic but not in a good way. Almost the same elevation in and out as ONE WAY down into the Grand Canyon. Pushing a bike was bad. A pack would've been really tough. You have my admiration, sir

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Come on guys, my reference to putting all the convicts on an island was my tribute to Escape from New York. Geesh.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Come on guys, my reference to putting all the convicts on an island was my tribute to Escape from New York. Geesh.
    I, for one, was not entertaining the thought...

  38. #38
    Josh
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    some of myu best trips have been ones where I go out without a map(well marked trails) or got lost

  39. #39
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    Where's your yellow bike?

  40. #40
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    Three year old thread! Love the 60mm fork and V brakes Mike!
    Keep the rubber side down

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTBCanuck View Post
    Three year old thread! Love the 60mm fork and V brakes Mike!
    Hey, did we miss the Thudbuster? What's sad is I remember this thread.....

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by nomoclips View Post
    Where's your yellow bike?
    Quote Originally Posted by MTBCanuck View Post
    Three year old thread! Love the 60mm fork and V brakes Mike!
    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    Hey, did we miss the Thudbuster? What's sad is I remember this thread.....
    Holy Thread Resurrections!

    Wow, this was before I got the Pitch. Still rocking to 2000 Gary Fisher Tassajara hard tail with three glorious inches of travel AND the mighty Thudbuster

    Still sitting in my garage 'cause I can't bare to take such a loss on it. The Thudbuster is on the Mrs' bike

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