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Thread: National Trail

  1. #1
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    New question here. National Trail

    I have never been further up National than to the Mormon intersection. (Too tired to climb anymore! )

    Which part is more technical, upper or lower National?

  2. #2
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbrous
    I have never been further up National than to the Mormon intersection. (Too tired to climb anymore! )

    Which part is more technical, upper or lower National?
    Upper, fo sho...

    It has the Waterfall and other stuff on the way to Buena Vista. A "next step" ride for you would be to keep going from that intersection all the way to Buena Vista, then reverse it and go back down. Then the step after that would be to continue on from BV to Telegraph, down Telegraph and back on Desert Classic.
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  3. #3
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    It's kind of same-same, except for the Waterfall, IMO. Lower National has that wacky blind left turn, the Bermuda Triangle, and the final staircase. Upper National has the two waterfall sections and the staircase valley between the survey marker and BV. Really the vast majority of National is rideable, fast, easy XC.

    Of course I still crash on it all the time.

    p.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    It's kind of same-same, except for the Waterfall, IMO. Lower National has that wacky blind left turn, the Bermuda Triangle, and the final staircase. Upper National has the two waterfall sections and the staircase valley between the survey marker and BV. Really the vast majority of National is rideable, fast, easy XC.

    Of course I still crash on it all the time.

    p.
    I concur with Paul, they are about the same technically. However, in my humble opinion, going up Lower National is much harder than going up Upper National because the climbing is steeper/more intense on Lower. Once you climb up to the "intersection", the hardest bits of the steep/intense climbing are essentially over for this part of the mountain.
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  5. #5
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    I concur with Paul, they are about the same technically. However, in my humble opinion, going up Lower National is much harder than going up Upper National because the climbing is steeper/more intense on Lower. Once you climb up to the "intersection", the hardest bits of the steep/intense climbing are essentially over for this part of the mountain.
    Geoff - Please get the message board thing straight and use "IMHO" when you mean to say, "in my humble opinion."
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz
    Geoff - Please get the message board thing straight and use "IMHO" when you mean to say, "in my humble opinion."
    Walt, I understand why you came up with your statement that Upper is more technical "fo sho". Its because you have the technical skills of a snail rolling through dog turd. I guess you cannot be blamed then, eh?
    IMHO!

    PS: You see, Walt started it.

    On Point: IMHO, climbing up Lower is harder than climbing up Upper because Lower has more intense climbing, and thus the technical sections are more difficult to clear. Going down, they are about the same difficulty. Upper probably has more "bigger" drops overall but the climbing is much more mellow.
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  7. #7
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    On Point: IMHO, climbing up Lower is harder than climbing up Upper because Lower has more intense climbing, and thus the technical sections are more difficult to clear. Going down, they are about the same difficulty. Upper probably has more "bigger" drops overall but the climbing is much more mellow.
    I agree with you and Paul about Upper and Lower National. Definitely about the climbing on Lower vs. Upper.

    My opinion was based on the fact that I have ridden Lower numerous times and am more "comfortable" with it (not that I can ride all of it). I have been on Upper much less, so I'm still somewhat intimidated by certain sections.
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  8. #8
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    Hmm...sounds like upper is just as difficult on the way down as is lower (except for waterfall area).

    Thanks for info guys. It's also nice to know that the climb to BV parking lot isn't as steep as going up Mormon Loop.

    When I first tried SoMo I went up using Mormon Loop and rode back down Mormon Loop. I was able to ride it down the whole way except for one spot. So I figured National couldn't be much harder - Wrong! Night and day difference! I didn't crash any but I pussed out and walked a bunch.

    My hat is off to those who ride this without walking any parts, because your skills are just as big as your balls.

  9. #9
    mr. wonderful
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    New question here. well let's count

    heading up, lower national has: #1 (first staircase), the gully, 1b (the second little rocky-turny-kinda-thingy), 1c (the square step before the right turn), the trough (hint, go left), the ledges (hint, stop smoking), hell hill (not tech. but i threw it in anyway), #2 aka 4 hump- bump, or is it 4 hump-bump?, the dipsy-doodle (rock switchback), #3 aka bermuda triangle (at least 4 ways to go but i'll count it as only 1), albert's memorial bypass aka cluster-f**k (sorry paul), and the palo verde slab. that's 12 for lower national.

    heading up, upper national has: cactus root, trail post rock (optional), lower waterfall, upper waterfall, little jiggy-thing (just above upper water fall), and the stairs at BV. that's only 6 for upper national.

    there you have it Umbrous, the irrefutable truth that lower national is twice as technical as upper national.

  10. #10
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    Yup

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbag
    there you have it Umbrous, the irrefutable truth that lower national is twice as technical as upper national.

    It sounds like you know what you're talking about, and you've confirmed my thoughts about riding up lower National.

    My thoughts: !! DON'T DO IT !!

    While riding up Mormon Loop I'm constantly reminded how much I sux. No way I'll attempt to go up lower National.

  11. #11
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by Umbrous
    It sounds like you know what you're talking about, and you've confirmed my thoughts about riding up lower National.

    My thoughts: !! DON'T DO IT !!

    While riding up Mormon Loop I'm constantly reminded how much I sux. No way I'll attempt to go up lower National.
    I disagree - you should try it. You can probably ride some spots you'll think you can't and it will help your overall riding. Raise the bar...

    Though you will say "never again" once you're at the top of Lower...until the next time.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz
    I disagree - you should try it. You can probably ride some spots you'll think you can't and it will help your overall riding. Raise the bar...

    Though you will say "never again" once you're at the top of Lower...until the next time.

    Thanks for the positive attitude Walt, but I think I'll stick with Mormon Loop.

    I already have to push on certain parts of Mormon Loop, and I think trying to go up lower National would only further errode any confidence I might have.

    Besides, it seems there is a pattern forming for me. That is, every time I wreck I'm dog tired.

  13. #13
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    is the part by telegraph upper or lower national
    All Mountain was so 2005

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    F'in ride it. I saw this guy do it all the way to BV with his wrist in a cast (note blue on left forearm) on a heavy FR bike....



    I'm an old flatlander from back east and rode/pushed up it. If I lived there I'd be riding it every weekend.

    Mike

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman
    F'in ride it. I saw this guy do it all the way to BV with his wrist in a cast (note blue on left forearm) on a heavy FR bike....



    I'm an old flatlander from back east and rode/pushed up it. If I lived there I'd be riding it every weekend.

    Mike
    That look's like so much fun. Soon I'll get these legs and lungs up to par so I can try some of the areas on South Mountain.

    Very clear picture, well done!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cdub
    is the part by telegraph upper or lower national
    It's "the part between BV and Telegraph Pass." Seriously, I've never heard it called anything else. Upper National is kind of a misnomer, since it's really only the second half of the first third. BV to Telegraph is the second third. Telegraph to San Juan is the third half. Do the math and it adds up to one long fricken trail.

    p.
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  17. #17
    mr. wonderful
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    he neglected to mention

    the broken wrist was the result of a tumble down the waterfall. the picture, by the way, is #2 aka 4-bump-hump (lower national).

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartman
    F'in ride it. I saw this guy do it all the way to BV with his wrist in a cast (note blue on left forearm) on a heavy FR bike....

    I'm an old flatlander from back east and rode/pushed up it. If I lived there I'd be riding it every weekend.

    Mike

    Two things:

    1. I'm not like that skinny guy with the monster lungs and legs.
    2. Fun to me isn't pushing my bike, I'd much rather ride.

    ps- Why are you taking a picture of some stranger's behind?

    But seriously...you are probably just amazed as I am that people can ride up some of that junk on National.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    ... since it's really only the second half of the first third. BV to Telegraph is the second third. Telegraph to San Juan is the third half. Do the math and it adds up to one long fricken trail. p.
    GW was right - fuzzy math does exist.
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  20. #20
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    Imho...

    Although it's a very short climb, going up the linn (waterfall) is the most challenging thing
    out there for me. I think I'm batting about 500 on that one. Part of the difficulty for me is that
    I've been working for a bit when I get there. So, I don't show up fresh for the fight.

    The whole upper section is well worth the lower section lung-busters.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Patrick
    Although it's a very short climb, going up the linn (waterfall) is the most challenging thing
    out there for me.
    I dunno, this unknown rider on a VT made it look pretty easy.

    http://www.tatumriders.com/albums/Mi...s/MVI_1489.avi

  22. #22
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    You're silly...

    Quote Originally Posted by rockhead
    I dunno, this unknown rider on a VT made it look pretty easy.

    http://www.tatumriders.com/albums/Mi...s/MVI_1489.avi

    Yeah. WOW! He went right _UP_ that without even pedaling! In fact, he was so strong I
    think he was using his brakes to slow himself down, right?
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