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  1. #1
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    MMP Pump Track Construction

    We finally have approval to start construction of the pump track in the Competitive Track parking area at McDowell Mtn Park. We will be laying out the pump track this Thursday (5/20) and will begin moving dirt as soon as the water line is in.

    Volunteers are needed to get this completed prior to the 2 Wheels For Hope event on June 5. If all goes as planned we will have the track laid out and roughed in next week and plan on having a volunteer day Saturday 5/29 and/or Sunday 5/30 to complete the first section. I know that it is Memorial Day weeekend and all but that is the only option to get it completed before June 5th.

  2. #2
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    I thought the perk to having a pump track was that it was close by?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    I thought the perk to having a pump track was that it was close by?
    Close by what? Downtown Phoenix?
    Marty

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    I thought the perk to having a pump track was that it was close by?
    It is close by (my house).

  5. #5
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    I wish I could help, but I'll be outta town for the weekend.

  6. #6
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    Err...
    Don't take that the wrong way, I'll help build it and would love to ride it.
    Just not sure who else would be willing to drive out that way for it since mcdowell mountain park and the surrounding area is geared for XC.

    But that is just my understanding of it, correct me if I am wrong.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    Err...
    Don't take that the wrong way, I'll help build it and would love to ride it.
    Just not sure who else would be willing to drive out that way for it since mcdowell mountain park and the surrounding area is geared for XC.

    But that is just my understanding of it, correct me if I am wrong.
    A pump track is a great tool to improve strength, fitness and skills, regardless of the type of riding that you like most. I do agree that the trails at MMP are XC and XC racing orientated. Building the pump track there is a first step towards making MMP a MTB park with more trails, a skills area (skinnies, etc) and some more mildly technical obsticles. Because it is a County park there will always be limitations as to what can be constructed there (and how long it takes to get approval) but the pump track is a good first step in the right direction. If the pump track goes well, there is an oportunity to build some small dirt jumps there next year.

    One of the other benifits to the pump track at MMP is making the park more inviting to bring the whole family out. Dad and/or mom can hit the trails while the kids play on the pump track.

    Your willingness to help with this project is greatly appreciated, especially if you live too far from it to get much use out of it. My motives are far more selfish. While I truly want to build features at the park for others to enjoy, I live in Fountain Hills and ride at the park 2-3 times a week.

  8. #8
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    Count me in for that one!!! I should be out one of the days. Please post up what times are for construction! My shovel is itching to move some dirt

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ_AlanS
    A pump track is a great tool to improve strength, fitness and skills, regardless of the type of riding that you like most. I do agree that the trails at MMP are XC and XC racing orientated. Building the pump track there is a first step towards making MMP a MTB park with more trails, a skills area (skinnies, etc) and some more mildly technical obsticles. Because it is a County park there will always be limitations as to what can be constructed there (and how long it takes to get approval) but the pump track is a good first step in the right direction. If the pump track goes well, there is an oportunity to build some small dirt jumps there next year.

    One of the other benifits to the pump track at MMP is making the park more inviting to bring the whole family out. Dad and/or mom can hit the trails while the kids play on the pump track.

    Your willingness to help with this project is greatly appreciated, especially if you live too far from it to get much use out of it. My motives are far more selfish. While I truly want to build features at the park for others to enjoy, I live in Fountain Hills and ride at the park 2-3 times a week.
    I agree with what a pump track can do. But statistically speaking there has not really been too many XC'rs to explore that path... But I am not trying to discourage the thought of it. It would suck for people to have even more negitive ammunition for dirt jumps and terrain parks if/ when a small amount of people show up. Not because the the idea is bad, but instead it was in a location that was only convient for those that like the park currently for XC and for those that live in places like fountain hills.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    Err...
    Don't take that the wrong way, I'll help build it and would love to ride it.
    Just not sure who else would be willing to drive out that way for it since mcdowell mountain park and the surrounding area is geared for XC.

    But that is just my understanding of it, correct me if I am wrong.

    I ride out there the loops are fun as hell if you can pedal.

    But on a flip note look how many people drive even further to get to NRA.


    Wish I could help Alan but with working as a sub I have no set hours and when I am down I need to be ready to go at that time.

    Good luck and can't wait to see how it turns out. Its been a slow process getting it going out there but well worth it.
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  11. #11
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    wow why so nnegative about this Kubo? This has been a work in progress and I am very glad thru Alan's persistance there will be a true legit maintained pump track in the valley. This is a small stepping stone in the big picture.

    Think if Mcdowell does decent and people use the pump track . Then whats to say any of the other mountain parks won't follow suit . I know they could use one out at estrella also . If this dh/FR/DJ thing catches on with one state agency then the other wil also re-evaluate how they look at us and also try to meet the MTB communities needs.
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  12. #12
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    I'm SUPER excited about this!!!! I ride mostly XC oriented trails and I've always wanted to have access to a pump track to work on my skills. I plan on riding the hell out of that pump track every time I go there to ride the loops. I guarantee most XCers will appreciate this pump track, having it next to the trails where you already have your bike makes it ideal in my book.

    I've been wondering why there aren't many bike parks in Phx (think the I-5 Colannade in Seattle)? It seems like there would be several ideal places here to build things like that.

    Also who every is responsible for this coming to live... YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!!

  13. #13
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    Sweet! Can't wait to see and ride it. I am out of town that weekend but completely support this. Good work Alan!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork
    wow why so nnegative about this Kubo? This has been a work in progress and I am very glad thru Alan's persistance there will be a true legit maintained pump track in the valley. This is a small stepping stone in the big picture.

    Think if Mcdowell does decent and people use the pump track . Then whats to say any of the other mountain parks won't follow suit . I know they could use one out at estrella also . If this dh/FR/DJ thing catches on with one state agency then the other wil also re-evaluate how they look at us and also try to meet the MTB communities needs.
    I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.
    I just can't see how MMP will be "decent" due to the circumstances... but I am hoping for the best.
    I am just speaking my mind when it comes to the big picture... how will they know the mountain bike community needs if they don't know who the mountain bike community is and what they want... seems to be driven by only a couple people that doesn't like input or help from others... *cough cough*. Just whatever fits their particular needs and wants.
    My fear is to have a bad impact to the success of a mountain bike skills park in AZ if its in a location that is mainly used by people that do not have a desire to use it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.
    I just can't see how MMP will be "decent" due to the circumstances... but I am hoping for the best.
    I am just speaking my mind when it comes to the big picture... how will they know the mountain bike community needs if they don't know who the mountain bike community is and what they want... seems to be driven by only a couple people that doesn't like input or help from others... *cough cough*. Just whatever fits their particular needs and wants.
    My fear is to have a bad impact to the success of a mountain bike skills park in AZ if its in a location that is mainly used by people that do not have a desire to use it.
    Are you basing this on facts, or opinion? Do you know something about MMP, and this particular pump track, and the circumstances around Alan getting permission to build it? Or, do you just like to rock the boat?

    No offense, but if all this is based on opinion, you've pretty much made your point....now move on.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrankyMonkey
    I'm SUPER excited about this!!!! I ride mostly XC oriented trails and I've always wanted to have access to a pump track to work on my skills. I plan on riding the hell out of that pump track every time I go there to ride the loops. I guarantee most XCers will appreciate this pump track, having it next to the trails where you already have your bike makes it ideal in my book.

    I've been wondering why there aren't many bike parks in Phx (think the I-5 Colannade in Seattle)? It seems like there would be several ideal places here to build things like that.

    Also who every is responsible for this coming to live... YOU ARE AWESOME!!!!!

    Ditto! I never rode a pump track before until yesterday. I got to test ride a HT 29er at Mountain Bike Heaven in Sedona. They have a small track behind the store and it was super fun. Coming from a skateboarding background I know all about how to pump, and pumping around the track was a new experience for me. I really liked it. So when I get my HT and head out to MMP I'll just bring both bikes.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    I'm not trying to be negative, just realistic.
    I just can't see how MMP will be "decent" due to the circumstances... but I am hoping for the best.
    I am just speaking my mind when it comes to the big picture... how will they know the mountain bike community needs if they don't know who the mountain bike community is and what they want... seems to be driven by only a couple people that doesn't like input or help from others... *cough cough*. Just whatever fits their particular needs and wants.
    My fear is to have a bad impact to the success of a mountain bike skills park in AZ if its in a location that is mainly used by people that do not have a desire to use it.

    You just don't know the jist of things man . NRA type areas are the inspiration for the pump track . It wasn't until NRA became a big skills area for everyone to build their skills that people started to notice the need for something along the lines. At one time there was going to be a pumptrack, dirt jumps, skinnies and other tech features down in the pit at nra. There was also plan for the same type of thing at the holbert pit . However things change and also plans take years to come to fruit . If I recall it has now been over 2 years for the MMP pumptrack to come to fruit. I can tell you if I had the time I would be at the forefront of this legit effort helping as much as I could but unfortunate I can't. I would love to shape some dirt as the NRA days are numbered

    MMP see's tons of traffic and while I am a hardcore freeride dh guy I also trail ride to stay in shape and I ride with my daughter alot . The pump track there will be sucessful no doubt. I even have a pump track in my back yard and would make the trip out once a month at least to ride the comp loops and have some fun on the pump track.

    To see the big picture you need to have been around long enough to know this is a great step for us .

    Here is a ? if there was a legit dh/fr type area up in Black Canyon city would you go? I know I would and over half the NRA patorns would also.

    Just like nra Build it and they will come . end of story and 100% true
    Last edited by clockwork; 05-18-2010 at 10:45 AM.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    I agree with what a pump track can do. But statistically speaking there has not really been too many XC'rs to explore that path... But I am not trying to discourage the thought of it. It would suck for people to have even more negitive ammunition for dirt jumps and terrain parks if/ when a small amount of people show up. Not because the the idea is bad, but instead it was in a location that was only convient for those that like the park currently for XC and for those that live in places like fountain hills.
    Statistics huh? So where did you get your Statistics? Like a nielsen survey or the census bureau or somewhere else?

  19. #19
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    I am excited to hear that this is finally becoming a reality!!! Excellent work Alan!!! I will do my best to be there as I work weekends only at this time. This is a huge step in getting the park systems out here to build something more than your average trail!
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  20. #20
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    Wow, awesome that MMP is getting that!
    Would be cool if Somo followed suit with the pit area.

  21. #21
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    [QUOTE=kubo]I agree with what a pump track can do. But statistically speaking there has not really been too many XC'rs to explore that path... But I am not trying to discourage the thought of it. QUOTE]


    Sorry I need to expand on this comment!

    Hey bud sorry but you have it so wrong. You really have no clue. I am going to say 75% of the newer dh/fr riders are indeed those that ride or used to ride xc ,that have gone out and bought another bike just to have fun out at the pit. I have seen this in person over the last few years developing the pit. Also since there was a place to build those skills, those types off riders have tripled easy. Back in the day there really seamed to be only a good handful or so riders that trully were into DH/FR Plus there were only a few to come out to pit vs. the hundreds now.

    I can count at least 15 mtbr's from this site that I know on a personal level that were once strictly xc ridders that now also ride dh and love to jump at the pit . Not to mention all the ones that I am not on a personal basis with.
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  22. #22
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    Alan....so happy that you were able to see this vision through! you've given a lot back to MMP, thank you and all the rest.

    wish I could make it to help with the build. but......Prescott calls. if you need help Thursday, let me know, I'll try to find a way to get out there after work before dark.
    b

  23. #23
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    A positive for the mountain biking community...Nice work! I for one look forward to improving my skills.

  24. #24
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    Do you have a scale drawing of the pump track? I would like to see your vision and perhaps it will increase the stoke and salavation. I've never been on a proper pump track and look forward to it. Clockwork I think I will have to carpool with you out there sometime.
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  25. #25
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    Thanks for doing this and I look forward to checking it out. I live reasonably close to MMP and while the riding there isn't necessarily my cup of tea, I always have a great time.

  26. #26
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    Awesome Alan! Now I can buy a pump track bike

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKA Monkeybutt
    Awesome Alan! Now I can buy a pump track bike
    I love excuses to buy new bikes!!! I've got mine ready to rock!!!

  28. #28
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    This truly is an experiment to see how much use skills type features will be used at XC type trail areas. The first section of pump track will be small and simple so don't be dissapointed by the first effort. If it is a success then more will be added. CW is correct that areas like NRA were the inspiration for the pump track and that it has been more than 2 years to get this approved.

    I was not the one who planted the original idea, a local guy named Dean who I have not met yet got this started. I merely continued the push and being that I live close by I was able to communicate regularly with County management. Having been successful at organizing volunteer trail maintenance at MMP and all of the MTB volunteers that showed up helped us tremendously. MMP is very supportive towards the MTB community because they have experienced the numbers that show up for the Pemberton night rides and how many show up for volunteer trail maintenance.

    Can't wait to get even a small section completed. I will have my P-bike at the 2 Wheels event at June and anyone that wants to give the pump track a try is welcome to take it for a spin (or pump).

  29. #29
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    Has anyone ridden a 29er on a pump track? How well does it work? Just asking because all I have is a 29er HT and a 26 Full Boing. As much as I would like to have an excuse to get another bike I'm not sure I can justify one just for the Pump Track. (at least not yet that is)

  30. #30
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    I might have to score one of these for the pump track... http://tinyurl.com/se-om-flyer

  31. #31
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    Nice work, Alan. Keep us posted on build day schedule. Long live endless singletrack!

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubo
    seems to be driven by only a couple people that doesn't like input or help from others... *cough cough*. Just whatever fits their particular needs and wants.
    You apparently took my "selfish" comment far to literally. I would support the construction of a pump track anywhere in the valley. The primary reasons that I chose MMP was a) that an effort had already been started there and the County Parks management was receptive to the idea, b) there was interest and support for such a feature at this location by others and c) yes, it is close to my house meaning it is easier for me to put in the time it takes to communicate with park management and help with construction and maintenance. This is purely a volunteer effort on my part and I have nothing to gain but more riding closer to home.

    Worst case scenario is that it is under utilized and later removed. Best case scenario, it is well recieved, used often, added to and potentially opens a door for other pump tracks, skills areas and/or dirt jumps around town. My opinion is the potential up sides far out weigh the possibility that it will be under used. As far as it being decent, that all depends on who shows up to help with the layout and construction. I have never constructed a pump track or dirt jumps so on my part it will be trial and error. If anyone has experience and is willing to help, please offer you input and help. We are in fact open to that.

  33. #33
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    Alan, not quite sure I will be able to make it out for the build days, but I will offer this advice since I do have experience helping build and maintain a pump track for the last 3 years.

    The biggest thing to remember, its a pump track, not a jump track. Keep it mellow. Our rule of thumb is that anyone from the ages of 3 and up should be able to ride it Out of the 3 or 4 pump tracks I have seen pop up in the Valley lately, most of them fall into the category of "jump tracks" with very peaky rollers that are way too tall.

    If you build it right, everyone will be able to use and enjoy it no matter their age or skill level

  34. #34
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    Sounds like I am really going to have to try and get out there to help out .
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Alan, not quite sure I will be able to make it out for the build days, but I will offer this advice since I do have experience helping build and maintain a pump track for the last 3 years.

    The biggest thing to remember, its a pump track, not a jump track. Keep it mellow. Our rule of thumb is that anyone from the ages of 3 and up should be able to ride it Out of the 3 or 4 pump tracks I have seen pop up in the Valley lately, most of them fall into the category of "jump tracks" with very peaky rollers that are way too tall.

    If you build it right, everyone will be able to use and enjoy it no matter their age or skill level
    Thanks six, your advice is exactly what we have discussed for this track. I downloaded Lee McCormick's pump track book and am using that as a guideline. We want this to be beginner and kid friendly rather than a jump track. If this goes over well some small dirt jumps (table top) may be next along with some skinnies and other skills stuff.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ_AlanS
    Thanks six, your advice is exactly what we have discussed for this track. I downloaded Lee McCormick's pump track book and am using that as a guideline. We want this to be beginner and kid friendly rather than a jump track. If this goes over well some small dirt jumps (table top) may be next along with some skinnies and other skills stuff.

    Tabletops are fine, just follow Lee's guidlines and keep them to about 24" tall and 24" long on the top and they fit right into a pump track. If it's built right, you won't need a separate jump line. Over at the Fishbowl track, guys regularly will double the rollers and catch some decent air time.



    But yet, a 2 year old can ride it.


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    be careful! If you pass Hardcore Ken, he may bad mouth you on the forum. SLOW NEED TO GO....GO HOME!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeathoner 182
    be careful! If you pass Hardcore Ken, he may bad mouth you on the forum. SLOW NEED TO GO....GO HOME!

    Nice way to trash a thread.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    Tabletops are fine, just follow Lee's guidlines and keep them to about 24" tall and 24" long on the top and they fit right into a pump track. If it's built right, you won't need a separate jump line. Over at the Fishbowl track, guys regularly will double the rollers and catch some decent air time.

    But yet, a 2 year old can ride it.
    I haven't been to the fish bowl yet, need to get out there. Long trip from FH to tuke. What nights do they regularly ride there. Maybe I need to make the trip this week or next to try something new. The only pump track I have riden is Les' out in AJ.

  40. #40
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    alan, i'm just curious: where in the park will this be?
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaboose
    alan, i'm just curious: where in the park will this be?
    At the north west corner of the comp loop parking area. There is a green gate nearest to the entry shack that is typically locked, the pump track will be located there.

    CM, a hard tail 29'r will work. As with all types of riding a bike set up specifically for park riding/dirt jumps/pump tracks will work better. With that said, a skilled rider on a beach cruiser could school me riding my P bike on a pump track. Run what you brung and have fun.

    More updates to come tomorrow.

  42. #42
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    Trench for water line and track layout complete. As soon as the water line is operational dirt moving will begin. We may have an afternoon work day next week with the majority of the work over the labor day weekend. I know not many will be available that weekend but it is the only way to get it built before June 5th.

    I will post up dates and times after this weekend.

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