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  1. #1
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    McDowells - Central & Southern Area Trails

    Lots of good discussion on here lately about Brown's Ranch and the current phase of trail development in that area. I don't hear much talk from City of Scottsdale or McDowell Sonoran Conservancy about future phases in the Central (Gateway) and Southern ( Lost Dog/Sunrise) areas.

    I have always hoped there would be a McDowell Haute Route, some of these proposed connections could make that possible.

    How about:
    1. Connecting Upper Quartz to Thompson Peak?
    2. Connection from Gateway saddle to either Drinkwater or McDowell Peak?
    3. Connection from Windgate Pass to either Drinkwater or McDowell?
    4. Connection from Windgate up to The Overlook?
    5. Connection from Jeep Trail to Quartz Trail
    6. Connection from Andres Kinsey Overlook to Quartz to Thompson Peak

    I am probably dreaming that any of this would ever come through, but there would be some awesome loops that could come of even some of these connections.
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  2. #2
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    Pretty sure the City of Phoenix is going to do a hostile takeover of all Scottsdale trailbuilding funds so that us poor inner city kids can get some better designed stuff in PMP.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Pretty sure the City of Phoenix is going to do a hostile takeover of all Scottsdale trailbuilding funds so that us poor inner city kids can get some better designed stuff in PMP.
    Ya never know!!
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  4. #4
    Meatbomb
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm View Post
    5. Connection from Jeep Trail to Quartz Trail

    .
    Doesn't this already exist? If you ride the Jeep Trail to the top near the Taliesin Overlook and keep going it drops in and meets up with Quartz for a nice downhill ride.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Doesn't this already exist? If you ride the Jeep Trail to the top near the Taliesin Overlook and keep going it drops in and meets up with Quartz for a nice downhill ride.
    You are correct, more specifically, I should have said another connection, mid way on Jeep that goes up and meets Quartz much higher in the box canyon.
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  6. #6
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    As they say, the squeaky wheel always gets the grease. Best way is to get involve and lets your voice be heard and do it lots of times. The McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission meets regularly and they have a public comment period at the beginning of the meeting where citizens may address the members of the McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission. Attend these meetings and be heard.



    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm View Post
    Lots of good discussion on here lately about Brown's Ranch and the current phase of trail development in that area. I don't hear much talk from City of Scottsdale or McDowell Sonoran Conservancy about future phases in the Central (Gateway) and Southern ( Lost Dog/Sunrise) areas.

    I have always hoped there would be a McDowell Haute Route, some of these proposed connections could make that possible.

    How about:
    1. Connecting Upper Quartz to Thompson Peak?
    2. Connection from Gateway saddle to either Drinkwater or McDowell Peak?
    3. Connection from Windgate Pass to either Drinkwater or McDowell?
    4. Connection from Windgate up to The Overlook?
    5. Connection from Jeep Trail to Quartz Trail
    6. Connection from Andres Kinsey Overlook to Quartz to Thompson Peak

    I am probably dreaming that any of this would ever come through, but there would be some awesome loops that could come of even some of these connections.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicrider View Post
    As they say, the squeaky wheel always gets the grease. Best way is to get involve and lets your voice be heard and do it lots of times. The McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission meets regularly and they have a public comment period at the beginning of the meeting where citizens may address the members of the McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission. Attend these meetings and be heard.
    Great point!
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  8. #8
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    Top of my list would be a trail coming off Andrews-Kinsey and winding W to meet up with Quartz or Paradise. I seem to remember a discussion I had with one of the big planners that indicated there was some land that they would need and did not own. But man, are you on the right track--lots of days I am up for a 15-20 mile loop but not up for a full double-bypass.

    My fear if this we to become reality is that we would end up with another Tom's Thumb or East End trail--too steep, rocky, loose, and switchbacks too tight to ride.

  9. #9
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    If memory serves me correctly, when they put in the trail up to Toms Thumb from the SD side, they said it was steep to be able to keep the overall length reasonable. If they truly made it rideable, it would have been longer....not sure I buy that at all. If you look at the last couple trails built near the peaks, Andrew-Kinsey and the new Lower Sonoran, they are both really well built trails and completely rideable (and probably more sustainable). If you've every ridden the old Sonoran Trail (probably called upper sonoran now), that thing had some stupid steep switch backs and grades that were just silly. Not built for riding, but built for hiking.
    In my dreams, I would love for them to reroute parts of the west side of Windgate, West side of Toms Thumb, and the west side of Bell Pass. It would just be nice to be able to actually ride all the way up to the passes.
    The work done on the east side of Windgate and Bell has been great...I know they've worked on the west sides of both as well, but there's only so much you can do w/o a reroute.

  10. #10
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    DrHog - I hear you, but have learned that they COS has switched trail builders, so, hopefully any future work on the passes would be more suitable for hikers.

    Ray-I think Andrews Kinsey could be the gold standard for version 2.0 of Windgate/Bell/Sunrise and Toms. Bell is a joke on the westside in either direction. I don't even like running on that side of Bell.
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm View Post
    Bell is a joke on the westside in either direction. I don't even like running on that side of Bell.
    I respectfully disagree. The westside Bell descent is a good romp, no joke.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharp-End View Post
    I respectfully disagree. The westside Bell descent is a good romp, no joke.
    I always have a good time descending Bell. It's getting to the top that sucks!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharp-End View Post
    I respectfully disagree. The westside Bell descent is a good romp, no joke.

    I totally agree...I love that westside Bell descent.




  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I totally agree...I love that westside Bell descent.
    To each their own, obviously. I do like from the tool box down. Above that, I am just in survival mode.
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  15. #15
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    There are certainly a few parts that have gotten pretty gnarled up in the last several years that I used to not even think about and now I get a little wadded up over. Probably depends on the bike too....my 2 dozen times down it have been on a SS XC bike which isn't the most friendly for steep chunky downs.
    Anyway, I'm all for a challenge, but in the end, I gotta go to work on Monday!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Pretty sure the City of Phoenix is going to do a hostile takeover of all Scottsdale trailbuilding funds so that us poor inner city kids can get some better designed stuff in PMP.
    well Phx did somehow manage to get Scottsdale to give them $1M a year for 35 yrs for the Giants baseball facility in Phx, so you never know.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I totally agree...I love that westside Bell descent.
    The Bell descent is so good its worth the push up. I would rather them do a cleanup and reroute of some of the stupidest parts of Windgate, and leave a few truly exciting part. Otherwise most of the Bell descent, and most of the McDs descents, are too easy if you dumb down the tops.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicrider View Post
    As they say, the squeaky wheel always gets the grease. Best way is to get involve and lets your voice be heard and do it lots of times. The McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission meets regularly and they have a public comment period at the beginning of the meeting where citizens may address the members of the McDowell Sonoran Preserve Commission. Attend these meetings and be heard.
    respectfully disagree. The Commission is for show, nothing more. Staff makes the decisions.

    And OT, we found one of the McDs Commission blocked NoDDC's mail from the entire commission, because this person was a supporter of the DDC. That is at least unethical, and possibly illegal -- like denying someone public comment. An investigation is underway by staff after we presented them with proof from our mailer program, received confirmation today. I'll be sure to report on all the dirt once it settles. We have some very biased emails between some stakeholders and Linda Milhaven in our records obtained under Freedom of Information Act that I am looking forward to releasing along with this.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
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  19. #19
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    Like Ray, I am hitting that on an XC bike with no dropper and 100mm fork. I might it more on a different bike. Maybe you guys are too and are just super-rad
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  20. #20
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm View Post
    Like Ray, I am hitting that on an XC bike with no dropper and 100mm fork. I might it more on a different bike. Maybe you guys are too and are just super-rad
    its not the boingy, its the geo. There is nothing in the McDs that needs more than 100, those better than I would say even less. Just lean back and be soft on the brakes.

    We raised $32,000 tonight, to hire help in collecting signatures. Tell your friends. We can win, first time in 2 years I have truly believed that!
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
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  21. #21
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    We raised $32,000 tonight, to hire help in collecting signatures. Tell your friends. We can win, first time in 2 years I have truly believed that!
    OT, but what is the latest? I'm no longer a Scottsdale resident, but am keenly interested and support you 100%! It's mind-numbing, to me, what they are trying to do.



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  22. #22
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    You may be right. Good thing we are working directly with City staff and the trail builder in planning the Phase 3 trails. I am squeaking a lot and being heard!!

    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    respectfully disagree. The Commission is for show, nothing more. Staff makes the decisions.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    its not the boingy, its the geo. There is nothing in the McDs that needs more than 100, those better than I would say even less. Just lean back and be soft on the brakes.

    We raised $32,000 tonight, to hire help in collecting signatures. Tell your friends. We can win, first time in 2 years I have truly believed that!
    Nice work CB, I appreciate what you are doing.
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    OT, but what is the latest? I'm no longer a Scottsdale resident, but am keenly interested and support you 100%! It's mind-numbing, to me, what they are trying to do.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    We have 14,000 signatures, we are looking for 30,000-35. 3 mos to go. We raised a ton of money last night to hire collection help. As it looks like we might win, we get more support cause people think their contributions are more "worthwhile". So we anticipate to continue building and getting donations right up to the deadline. We are doing well, we think we can win if we keep on track. You cant vote if you are not a Scottsdale voter, but you can donate or help collect if you are AZ voter. You can help by getting your Scottsdale friends to sign.

    Here's a vid of my speech from last night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzvKdMFRbYA

    Meanwhile, the City Council is putting a bond ask together for over $300M in 2018. Yup, we need 300M in new debt, but Council still wants to push forward with this frivolous and unwanted project for $68M. Vote for Solange Whitehead and Kathy Littlefield in 2018.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  25. #25
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    We have 14,000 signatures, we are looking for 30,000-35. 3 mos to go. We raised a ton of money last night to hire collection help. As it looks like we might win, we get more support cause people think their contributions are more "worthwhile". So we anticipate to continue building and getting donations right up to the deadline. We are doing well, we think we can win if we keep on track. You cant vote if you are not a Scottsdale voter, but you can donate or help collect if you are AZ voter. You can help by getting your Scottsdale friends to sign.

    Here's a vid of my speech from last night: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzvKdMFRbYA

    Meanwhile, the City Council is putting a bond ask together for over $300M in 2018. Yup, we need 300M in new debt, but Council still wants to push forward with this frivolous and unwanted project for $68M. Vote for Solange Whitehead and Kathy Littlefield in 2018.
    Great job! You clean up well...LOL.


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