Results 1 to 62 of 62
  1. #1
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540

    Looking for Trail Improvement Opportunities

    Today we headed to Mt. Bike Heaven to do one of the revered Wednesday shop rides. When I got to the shop there were alot of fit looking riders who I had never seen before. They had nice equipment and I looked like they might be able to hang with the locals.

    The only problem was they didn't have any protective gear and that is always a clue that they haven't fallen into a prickley pear cactus yet.

    The proposed ride was: Secret Trail into the Frontside of the Airport Loop to Airport Loop to Tabletop to Windsurfer to Bogus to Sketch to Upper Ramshead to Ramshead to Ridge to Secret Slickrock to Ridge to Red Rock Crossing to Secret Bypass to Upper Redrock Loop Road to Pyramid to Tin Can Alley to Hwy 89A to Home.

    Early on into the ride it became apparent that a previously improved section might need to be improved some more to make for a better user experience for the So. Cal group.

    I will be enclosing a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wCYN2Pz9cI) of the Secret Trail and Upper Ramshead for those advanced riders who a looking for a bigger challenge than some of the lesser challenging Sedona trails.

    TD
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Looking for Trail Improvement Opportunities-trail-improvement.jpg  

    Last edited by traildoc; 04-13-2011 at 11:47 PM.

  2. #2
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    60
    Man, you seem to really like to hear yourself, stroke yourself. Ever seen a shrink for your narcissistic self worth issues doctor?

    How many more dumb "question" threads can a man start?

  3. #3
    meow
    Reputation: Cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    588
    It's that loud sucking sound again.

  4. #4
    EDR
    Reputation: eatdrinkride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,245
    Doc, the only problem I have with Sedona posts is the trail names. Whenever I get to the part that says...."From Wherever, to Over There, to Under There, to Up On Top, to Over the Bottom, to Down Under, to Frog Legs, to Down the Chute, to Up the Ladder, to On Top Of The Car, to Behind the Fat Lady, to Fishy Smell, to Fur Ball, to Harry Potter, to Milky Whey, to Road, to Under the Road, to Under Under the Road, to Rock Hard, to Back From Whence We Came, to Paid Spam, to Spam With Spam, to Spam Spam Wonderful Spam, to Bald Arse, to Young Frankenstein, to Poop Shoot, to Burger King....I loose interest.

    If you folks up there could simplify the trail system names I seriously think that would be a major improvement. In the mean time I'll bring my gps and do look forward to many of the newer trails I have not ridden. Can you recommend an advanced technical route for me and my Phoenix friends? ......................j/k of course. I've got lots of your stuff on file.

  5. #5
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,251
    surly those can't be trail names....rather features on a trail? I mean, you have 9 "trail" names in what appears to be a 1.5-2mile segment.....?????

    Clarification please????




  6. #6
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Doc, the only problem I have with Sedona posts is the trail names. Whenever I get to the part that says...."From Wherever, to Over There, to Under There, to Up On Top, to Over the Bottom, to Down Under, to Frog Legs, to Down the Chute, to Up the Ladder, to On Top Of The Car, to Behind the Fat Lady, to Fishy Smell, to Fur Ball, to Harry Potter, to Milky Whey, to Road, to Under the Road, to Under Under the Road, to Rock Hard, to Back From Whence We Came, to Paid Spam, to Spam With Spam, to Spam Spam Wonderful Spam, to Bald Arse, to Young Frankenstein, to Poop Shoot, to Burger King....I loose interest.

    If you folks up there could simplify the trail system names I seriously think that would be a major improvement. In the mean time I'll bring my gps and do look forward to many of the newer trails I have not ridden. Can you recommend an advanced technical route for me and my Phoenix friends? ......................j/k of course. I've got lots of your stuff on file.
    ed:

    You might do the ride I posted at the beginning of this thread then throw in the last third of the AZSF Something Different Ride. That included about 5 different trails into one name, but you seem to like simplicity so I won't name them individually.

    Four of yesterday's riders extended the Wednesday ride by adding Something Different to the end of my posted route. One of the tourons on the ride, who rides and buillds trails in Downieville, thought it was one of the best rides he has ever been on.

    As everyone knows I am a BIG PIMP for Sedona mountain biking. If I just stay SILENT and let the TD HATERS do there own posts then I won't get the interest level up to get people to come to Sedona rather than Phoenix or Tucson.

    I am fighting everyday to get riders to spend their hard earned vacation dollars in Sedona where I believe they will have a great user experience.

    I may surely need to see a shrink, but I think the word is getting out.

    TD

  7. #7
    Big B's Trails
    Reputation: ImaFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,724
    as far as I can tell from other posts and videos, theyre trail names......

    edit: never mind TD beat me to the punch
    I dig dirt!

  8. #8
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer
    surly those can't be trail names....rather features on a trail? I mean, you have 9 "trail" names in what appears to be a 1.5-2mile segment.....?????

    Clarification please????
    The Google Map route is nine miles long and with Something Different (Last Frontier, Stairway to Heaven, Checkpoint Charlie, Middle Finger, Drano, Grassy Knoll and Ledge'n'Airy) thrown in it would be 16 miles long.

    TD

  9. #9
    bland
    Reputation: m77ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,293
    TD this is getting out of hand and I'm starting to get embarrassed that I defended you. I really do appreciate the work you do but why do you want to start all of these fights on the internet? I don't post up all of the trail improvements I do for a reason. If I was trying to pick a place to ride I would be more attracted to phx because of all the group rides and vids being posted up showing how much fun those guys are having down there. All of the fighting and bickering going on in the threads you start would turn me away from Sedona.

  10. #10
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger
    TD this is getting out of hand and I'm starting to get embarrassed that I defended you. I really do appreciate the work you do but why do you want to start all of these fights on the internet? I don't post up all of the trail improvements I do for a reason. If I was trying to pick a place to ride I would be more attracted to phx because of all the group rides and vids being posted up showing how much fun those guys are having down there. All of the fighting and bickering going on in the threads you start would turn me away from Sedona.

    77:

    Sorry to hear you will not be riding in Sedona in the future. It's hard to believe that my trying to improve the riding experience for the majority of users will reduce the number of riders coming to Sedona to ride, but you may be correct, time will tell.

    I am getting a lot of PM's requesting how to access those trails with the trail improvements, so your POV may be flawed. I have more videos and trail Intel on system and social trails than anyone else in Sedona on how to access our trail system.

    The problem with Sedona is that the cool trails are not signed, so riders have to hook-up with locals to do the cool loops. As more people get use to using GPS's the need for a local will diminish, but for the time being local knowledge is usually required.

    Very few MTBR tourist viewers know much about my posting history, and those that are looking for good trail intel from someone who seems to take their user experience seriously, come to me for advice. The fact that some high frequency posters on the Arizona forum want to take a different POV is totally an entertainment aspect IMHO.

    TD

  11. #11
    bland
    Reputation: m77ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,293
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    77:

    Sorry to hear you will not be riding in Sedona in the future. It's hard to believe that my trying to improve the riding experience for the majority of users will reduce the number of riders coming to Sedona to ride, but you may be correct, time will tell.

    I am getting a lot of PM's requesting how to access those trails with the trail improvements, so your POV may be flawed. I have more videos and trail Intel on system and social trails than anyone else in Sedona on how to access our trail system.

    The problem with Sedona is that the cool trails are not signed, so riders have to hook-up with locals to do the cool loops. As more people get use to using GPS's the need for a local will diminish, but for the time being local knowledge is usually required.

    Very few MTBR tourist viewers know much about my posting history, and those that are looking for good trail intel from someone who seems to take their user experience seriously, come to me for advice. The fact that some high frequency posters on the Arizona forum want to take a different POV is totally an entertainment aspect IMHO.

    TD
    I never said I'm not riding in sedona any more, I'm coming down today.

    Maybe my POV is flawed I don't think it is but who knows. Like I said I'm on "your side." I'm just getting tired of watching you build a pedestal for yourself out of internet fights.

  12. #12
    Kathleen in AZ
    Reputation: DurtGurl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    5,179
    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger
    TD this is getting out of hand and I'm starting to get embarrassed that I defended you. I really do appreciate the work you do but why do you want to start all of these fights on the internet? I don't post up all of the trail improvements I do for a reason. If I was trying to pick a place to ride I would be more attracted to phx because of all the group rides and vids being posted up showing how much fun those guys are having down there. All of the fighting and bickering going on in the threads you start would turn me away from Sedona.
    77 may have a good point for TD.... less talk, more pictures!

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bazooka_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    393
    If TD has done one thing for mountain biking, it is that he has made me love Phoenix more and more with each of his posts.
    You won't catch me riding in Sedona.
    "There's nothing like touching earth you've never touched"

  14. #14
    banned
    Reputation: roadie scum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    773
    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger
    TD this is getting out of hand and I'm starting to get embarrassed that I defended you. I really do appreciate the work you do but why do you want to start all of these fights on the internet? I don't post up all of the trail improvements I do for a reason. If I was trying to pick a place to ride I would be more attracted to phx because of all the group rides and vids being posted up showing how much fun those guys are having down there. All of the fighting and bickering going on in the threads you start would turn me away from Sedona.



    /\ This, cured me of any need to ride in Sedona, there are to many places to ride without the combativeness and narcissim.

  15. #15
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger
    I never said I'm not riding in sedona any more, I'm coming down today.

    Maybe my POV is flawed I don't think it is but who knows. Like I said I'm on "your side." I'm just getting tired of watching you build a pedestal for yourself out of internet fights.
    Ranger:

    Good to have you back, I thought we lost you.

    I am curious about the Flag riding system you and your friends enjoy riding? I don't think you are posting any Everytrail type descriptions of where they are at so many tourists are clueless as to how to find them let along ride them. Is there a reason why you keep them in a secretive mode?

    I have a feeling that the trails you ride require a lot of trail improvements and to keep them in good shape the less touron trafic the better those trails hold up. Also due to the skill level required to ride those trails you wouldn't like people to get over their head and be injured and bring attention to where they are at.

    TD

  16. #16
    trail "cleaner"
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,382

    Tin Can Alley?

    TD, is this the new name for Special Ed?... Or, is this yet another new trail I need to hit

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: clarkrw3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    544
    The only problem was they didn't have any protective gear and that is always a clue that they haven't fallen into a prickley pear cactus yet.

    This was the line that really got me I mean I have been riding mountain bikes all over AZ since 1990 and I can tell you I have never worn protective gear. Yes I have fallen into worse then prickley pears before. Doesn't mean I don't have a clue....some of us just know how to ride free

  18. #18
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
    Reputation: longhairmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,588
    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Doc, the only problem I have with Sedona posts is the trail names. Whenever I get to the part that says...."From Wherever, to Over There, to Under There, to Up On Top, to Over the Bottom, to Down Under, to Frog Legs, to Down the Chute, to Up the Ladder, to On Top Of The Car, to Behind the Fat Lady, to Fishy Smell, to Fur Ball, to Harry Potter, to Milky Whey, to Road, to Under the Road, to Under Under the Road, to Rock Hard, to Back From Whence We Came, to Paid Spam, to Spam With Spam, to Spam Spam Wonderful Spam, to Bald Arse, to Young Frankenstein, to Poop Shoot, to Burger King....I loose interest..
    that was funny as ****,, i was really hoping for another paragraph

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,211
    Quote Originally Posted by clarkrw3
    This was the line that really got me I mean I have been riding mountain bikes all over AZ since 1990 and I can tell you I have never worn protective gear. Yes I have fallen into worse then prickley pears before. Doesn't mean I don't have a clue....some of us just know how to ride free
    Yea, I laughed at that a bit as well. If you're wearing protective gear because you're afraid of cactus, you need to harden the **** up!!!!!!

    I have protective gear, and I've worn it a total of one time. A little blood never hurt anyboy.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AZTtripper's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    542
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    The only problem was they didn't have any protective gear and that is always a clue that they haven't fallen into a prickley pear cactus yet.
    TD
    Quote Originally Posted by clarkrw3
    This was the line that really got me I mean I have been riding mountain bikes all over AZ since 1990 and I can tell you I have never worn protective gear. Yes I have fallen into worse then prickley pears before. Doesn't mean I don't have a clue....some of us just know how to ride free
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Yea, I laughed at that a bit as well. If you're wearing protective gear because you're afraid of cactus, you need to harden the **** up!!!!!!

    I have protective gear, and I've worn it a total of one time. A little blood never hurt anyboy.
    Riding in AZ since 94 fell in to cactus exactly 2 times (it's not something one forgets) both times I landed in it ass first. I have yet to see any butt cheek protective gear on the market.

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Early on into the ride it became apparent that a previously improved section might need to be improved some more to make for a better user experience for the So. Cal group.
    TD
    Maybe this one So. Cal group should stick to the Bell Rock pathway, if the regular Sedona trails are too much for them. I have no doubt there are many So. Cal riders who could clean any of the trails you feel the need to improve.
    Singin' I love hike a bike!!!

  21. #21
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,251
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    The Google Map route is nine miles long and with Something Different (Last Frontier, Stairway to Heaven, Checkpoint Charlie, Middle Finger, Drano, Grassy Knoll and Ledge'n'Airy) thrown in it would be 16 miles long.

    TD

    OK...that's just hinky....I realize that Sedona has a lot of spider trails, but this means that the trail name changes every quarter mile or so.....unless you're going to tell me that there is a trail intersection at each and every one of these name changes....then these are features on a trail which you've all given name to.....I know you're the expert, but I call BS on this one.

    That's fine though, I can roll with it....my local schred has lots of names like that....but when we give directions...we don't say.......tour de'back yard to fenceline to mudflaps to disneyland to secret to double secret to washbypass to turtle rock to switchback o' death to 3-way to tequila to oilcan spot to chunky monkey to mine drop to jeep road to pride rock to letter ride to highway to church and back home.........

    we just say....take hawes to sadleback to mine to jeep road to pig and back....




  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Casual Observer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,211
    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer
    OK...that's just hinky....I realize that Sedona has a lot of spider trails, but this means that the trail name changes every quarter mile or so.....unless you're going to tell me that there is a trail intersection at each and every one of these name changes....then these are features on a trail which you've all given name to.....I know you're the expert, but I call BS on this one.

    That's fine though, I can roll with it....my local schred has lots of names like that....but when we give directions...we don't say.......tour de'back yard to fenceline to mudflaps to disneyland to secret to double secret to washbypass to turtle rock to switchback o' death to 3-way to tequila to oilcan spot to chunky monkey to mine drop to jeep road to pride rock to letter ride to highway to church and back home.........

    we just say....take hawes to sadleback to mine to jeep road to pig and back....
    Just another reason why PMP is the best trail system in the state: every single trail is called Widowmaker (it's true, look it up).
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  23. #23
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper
    Maybe this one So. Cal group should stick to the Bell Rock pathway, if the regular Sedona trails are too much for them. I have no doubt there are many So. Cal riders who could clean any of the trails you feel the need to improve.
    AZ:

    Did my trail list indicate we rode the regular Sedona trails? There you go making up stuff again.

    TD

  24. #24
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,251
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Just another reason why PMP is the best trail system in the state: every single trail is called Widowmaker (it's true, look it up).

    Anyone care to venture how many "Cottonwood Wash" names exist in Arizona????

    I stopped counting about 15 years ago......




  25. #25
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    60
    TD, what are you gonna do when local businesses hear that youre actually hurting their business turning people away?

  26. #26
    DLd
    DLd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,584
    I ride in Sedona (and elsewhere) for the challenge of the trails AND the scenery. When there is a section of trail I can't do, it gives me a reason to come back to Sedona so I can clean it. I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way. I think being able to challenge yourself and constantly improve is an important part of mountain biking for most people. There are times I have to get off my bike and walk a section, I usually scope it out to see if there's a line I might attempt the next time, then I get back on my bike and continue riding. There seems to be an idea floating around here that if any section is too hard, that "touron" mountain bikers will turn around and go home, never to return to Sedona again. I don't really see that happening. If they are semi-experienced mountain bikers they have probably run into challenges before and I think would react as I do. If they are first-timers, they likely won't make it as far as any of the areas in question anyway. I think the remoteness of many of these areas already weeds out the less experienced, and the ones specifically seeking additional trails, besides those published, are specifically looking for greater challenges than the trails on the map have to offer. I see a disturbing trend here of trying to lower the challenge of the trail to the lowest common denominator. As a rock climber, I have seen problems like these addressed in that sport's community before. There was a time when people would "chip" or "glue" holds to bring a climb down to their level, so they could accomplish it, thereby robbing other climbers of the chance to test themselves on it. It was recognized that even if no climber today could do the climb, that these rare opportunities should not be stolen from climbers of the next generation just to satisfy one man's ego. I think mountain bike trails and their many unique features fall under this philosophy also. What may be seen as a hindrance to an inexperienced rider, may be a challenge to another rider, who keeps coming back again and again to test him(or her)self as they improve their skills. When a cherished challenge is demolished, it usually can not be replaced, and may disappoint far more riders than the trail "improver" was aware of. This happened recently on the 50-year trail in Tucson, where a challenging step existed. I had walked it many times, but had recently built up the skill/cojones to ride it. I had ridden it twice, and the next time I came out, it had been demolished by pick and hammer. I was glad I got the chance to ride it, but I feel bad for all the folks who were looking forward to one day riding that step, and now their chance is gone forever. Think of more than just yourself when doing these trail "improvements", there are plenty of signed trails for all skill levels in Sedona already. Those seeking additional trails are usually seeking additional challenge.
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  27. #27
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by DLd
    I ride in Sedona (and elsewhere) for the challenge of the trails AND the scenery. When there is a section of trail I can't do, it gives me a reason to come back to Sedona so I can clean it. I don't think I'm alone in feeling this way. I think being able to challenge yourself and constantly improve is an important part of mountain biking for most people. There are times I have to get off my bike and walk a section, I usually scope it out to see if there's a line I might attempt the next time, then I get back on my bike and continue riding. There seems to be an idea floating around here that if any section is too hard, that "touron" mountain bikers will turn around and go home, never to return to Sedona again. I don't really see that happening. If they are semi-experienced mountain bikers they have probably run into challenges before and I think would react as I do. If they are first-timers, they likely won't make it as far as any of the areas in question anyway. I think the remoteness of many of these areas already weeds out the less experienced, and the ones specifically seeking additional trails, besides those published, are specifically looking for greater challenges than the trails on the map have to offer. I see a disturbing trend here of trying to lower the challenge of the trail to the lowest common denominator. As a rock climber, I have seen problems like these addressed in that sport's community before. There was a time when people would "chip" or "glue" holds to bring a climb down to their level, so they could accomplish it, thereby robbing other climbers of the chance to test themselves on it. It was recognized that even if no climber today could do the climb, that these rare opportunities should not be stolen from climbers of the next generation just to satisfy one man's ego. I think mountain bike trails and their many unique features fall under this philosophy also. What may be seen as a hindrance to an inexperienced rider, may be a challenge to another rider, who keeps coming back again and again to test him(or her)self as they improve their skills. When a cherished challenge is demolished, it usually can not be replaced, and may disappoint far more riders than the trail "improver" was aware of. This happened recently on the 50-year trail in Tucson, where a challenging step existed. I had walked it many times, but had recently built up the skill/cojones to ride it. I had ridden it twice, and the next time I came out, it had been demolished by pick and hammer. I was glad I got the chance to ride it, but I feel bad for all the folks who were looking forward to one day riding that step, and now their chance is gone forever. Think of more than just yourself when doing these trail "improvements", there are plenty of signed trails for all skill levels in Sedona already. Those seeking additional trails are usually seeking additional challenge.
    DL:

    Nice post! Please provide a list of those trails you ride that you have been walking certain sections? I would like to get an idea were those sections are that you walk, so I get a feel what you are talking about. Please be more specific which sections you hope to clean in the future? For example are you talking Ledge'n'Airy, Sketch, Damifino, Stay High, Christmas Wash, Lavitra, Killer Bee, Tims Wash, Last Frontier, Middle Finger, Grass Hopper Rock Roll, Skid Mark, Blue Dot, Cedar Ridge, Airport Loop, Hog Heaven, Tea Cup, Cow Pies, Two Fences, Sick Boy, Upper Ramshead, Under the Radar, Special Ed, Tin Can Alley?

    TD
    Last edited by traildoc; 04-14-2011 at 11:40 PM.

  28. #28
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    112
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    77:

    Sorry to hear you will not be riding in Sedona in the future. It's hard to believe that my trying to improve the riding experience for the majority of users will reduce the number of riders coming to Sedona to ride, but you may be correct, time will tell.

    I am getting a lot of PM's requesting how to access those trails with the trail improvements, so your POV may be flawed. I have more videos and trail Intel on system and social trails than anyone else in Sedona on how to access our trail system.

    The problem with Sedona is that the cool trails are not signed, so riders have to hook-up with locals to do the cool loops. As more people get use to using GPS's the need for a local will diminish, but for the time being local knowledge is usually required.

    Very few MTBR tourist viewers know much about my posting history, and those that are looking for good trail intel from someone who seems to take their user experience seriously, come to me for advice. The fact that some high frequency posters on the Arizona forum want to take a different POV is totally an entertainment aspect IMHO.

    TD

    Then what is the point of all your senseless babbling and ripping on anyone that you view as not Sedona worthy?

    I thought you were actually someone of respectable worthiness when first reading a lot of your posts. After reading all the above said posts, now I think your're a ******. So get my red line painted on Munds... I'll be there Sunday.

  29. #29
    Chunky Monkey
    Reputation: circusubet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    413

    Doc Says,"Is totally an entertainment aspect IMHO."

    I says, he "Is totally an entertainment aspect IMHO."

    If only ya'll can step away and just just at Doc's posts, we would not need late nite tv...

    PLUS he rides.

    Thx,
    John

    Oh, ps, don't know the guy...
    Lurkers Unite! Never mind....

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,374
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    Just another reason why PMP is the best trail system in the state: every single trail is called Widowmaker (it's true, look it up).

    AND,...apparently EVERY trail has been designated the 1A at one time or another (and apparently, they left all the sgins up.....). Who knew Perl Charles had such pull from the great beyond?


    As for TD, I don't understand all the angst.....are there really people not riding in Sedona because of TD?

    I mean, are you really going to avoid trails because you misunderstand some posts from a guy who happens to live where these trails are located?

    It's like refusing to ride in the Phoenix area because you don't like Jan Brewer......skep:

  31. #31
    The .05 percent
    Reputation: sinatorj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    903
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Ranger:

    Good to have you back, I thought we lost you.

    I am curious about the Flag riding system you and your friends enjoy riding? I don't think you are posting any Everytrail type descriptions of where they are at so many tourists are clueless as to how to find them let along ride them. Is there a reason why you keep them in a secretive mode?

    I have a feeling that the trails you ride require a lot of trail improvements and to keep them in good shape the less touron trafic the better those trails hold up. Also due to the skill level required to ride those trails you wouldn't like people to get over their head and be injured and bring attention to where they are at.

    TD
    I have personal issues with the internet and gps trail finding. You will prob find similar attitudes here in Flag. Nothing personal, we just like to be a little more secretive about our trail network. I don't think that just because you have internet access and a GPS you should be entitled to all the best trails. Sometimes you gotta earn 'em...
    Make Flagstaff RAD Again.

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: nsavarirayan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    147
    I love Sedona! Why would anyone avoid Sedona because they don't like someone?

  33. #33
    Beer Drnkr w/bike problem
    Reputation: TacoBeer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    866
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    DL:

    Nice post! Please provide a list of those trails you ride that you have been walking certain sections? I would like to get an idea were those sections are that you walk, so I get a feel what you are talking about. Please be more specific which sections you hope to clean in the future? For example are you talking Ledge'n'Airy, Sketch, Damifino, Stay High, Christmas Wash, Lavitra, Killer Bee, Tims Wash, Last Frontier, Middle Finger, Grass Hopper Rock Roll, Skid Mark, Blue Dot, Cedar Ridge, Airport Loop, Hog Heaven, Tea Cup, Cow Pies, Two Fences, Sick Boy, Upper Ramshead, Under the Radar, Special Ed, Tin Can Alley?

    TD

    Don't tell him or he will destroy the fun of a MOUNTAIN BIKE trail, keep it quiet. and ditto on all the crappy names for every mile of trail.
    "Not drinking is the Single Speed World Championships version of doping" -Jacquie Phelan

    E-bikes are Mountain Mopeds

  34. #34
    Over the Hill
    Reputation: dstepper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    1,763
    Sedona is a tourist town and I see nothing wrong in promoting it as a MTBing designation. I live in a town (Laguna Beach) with a underground MTBing culture so I know the importance of keeping some trails secret. I come to Sedona a couple 2-3 weeks each year because each time I come out I find new stuff to ride. Yes I would probably find much of the new stuff on my own but I know Sedona fairly well. Maybe it is just my impression but it seems like many of the complaints about TD come from people that do not live in Sedona. Hope you don't get discouraged TD...keep it up.

    Dean

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tonebone2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    178
    As far as having lots of names they usually really are for different trails, not just features. Riding around in Sedona you will see trails splitting off, joining, rejoining that often.

    As far as avoiding Sedona because of anything said here.. I haven't experienced any type of negative interaction while actually in Sedona riding and not on an internet forum arguing. Just go out and ride.. it's way more fun

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,147
    How about a new Trail Improvement forum hosted by Trail Doc?

  37. #37
    DLd
    DLd is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    1,584
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    DL:

    Nice post! Please provide a list of those trails you ride that you have been walking certain sections? I would like to get an idea were those sections are that you walk, so I get a feel what you are talking about. Please be more specific which sections you hope to clean in the future? For example are you talking Ledge'n'Airy, Sketch, Damifino, Stay High, Christmas Wash, Lavitra, Killer Bee, Tims Wash, Last Frontier, Middle Finger, Grass Hopper Rock Roll, Skid Mark, Blue Dot, Cedar Ridge, Airport Loop, Hog Heaven, Tea Cup, Cow Pies, Two Fences, Sick Boy, Upper Ramshead, Under the Radar, Special Ed, Tin Can Alley?

    TD
    I'm afraid I can't do that due to the reasons outlined above. If you wish to address something, address the points I made.
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  38. #38
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    60
    TD can not ride tech that well, thats why he dumbs it down, duh. If he had the sense to a) REMOVE a headset spacer b)add 10MM to his stem c) sit at the nose of his saddle, he wouldnt be dumbing down the climbs he and his aging missus FAIL repeatedly. His descending ability is weak, he is scared and runs too much sag. Next time u see him on the trail, have a closer look, like I did.

  39. #39
    pedaller
    Reputation: Noelg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,400
    Quote Originally Posted by sinatorj
    I have personal issues with the internet and gps trail finding. You will prob find similar attitudes here in Flag. Nothing personal, we just like to be a little more secretive about our trail network. I don't think that just because you have internet access and a GPS you should be entitled to all the best trails. Sometimes you gotta earn 'em...
    Thanks TrailDoc! Even if I'm not a fan of your online persona, I sure can appreciate your enthusiasm for helping riders experience the awesomeness that is Sedona. It's always nice when you ride a new area of the state to find welcoming locals there that share your passion.

    I try to return the favor whenever I encounter out-of-towners enjoying my backyard.

    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  40. #40
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by DLd
    I'm afraid I can't do that due to the reasons outlined above. If you wish to address something, address the points I made.
    DL:

    I expected to get your lame response. I have a pretty good feeling you have no clue where all the techie trails are in Sedona you just come up with a great looking post that has no credibility to it. Personally it sounds like our president trying to feed the sheep a bunch of BS; it sounds good but doesn't hold water. I have no confidence that you know what you are talking about, but I am sure you have a bunch of followers that think that you make sense.

    TD

  41. #41
    EDR
    Reputation: eatdrinkride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,245
    I have no confidence that you know what you are talking about, but I am sure you have a bunch of followers that think that you make sense.
    TD: Firstly I want to say that when we ride together I'm sure we'll get along just fine.

    Secondly, you calling out DL for a 'lame' post wreaks of hypocrisy. You have yet to address his valid concerns and frankly, by your above quote I think you are way off base. Your statement speaks more to you than it does to him. The vast majority of folks on here seem to side with DL, not you. At what point does one ever realize they might be in the minority?
    If you feel that this 'minority' only exists on MTBR then why bother posting here? You gain nothing but ill will as far as I can tell.

    I have one question for you. Why is it whenever anyone posts anything but full agreement with your statements you either full out attack them or give them a back-handed compliment. I mean I recently posted in this thread, gave no flack to you, just some e-net humor and some solid advice about Sedona trails and you felt the need to slight me with some comment about how I must need 'simplicity'. If you were a paid ambassador, you'd be fired.

  42. #42
    bland
    Reputation: m77ranger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    1,293
    Quote Originally Posted by azphxrider
    TD can not ride tech that well, thats why he dumbs it down, duh. If he had the sense to a) REMOVE a headset spacer b)add 10MM to his stem c) sit at the nose of his saddle, he wouldnt be dumbing down the climbs he and his aging missus FAIL repeatedly. His descending ability is weak, he is scared and runs too much sag. Next time u see him on the trail, have a closer look, like I did.
    You seem sad. Come on up to flag I'll show you around on some non-dumbed down chunky trails. I'll buy the ice-cream and beer and cheer you up.
    I'm being serious.

  43. #43
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    TD: Firstly I want to say that when we ride together I'm sure we'll get along just fine.

    Secondly, you calling out DL for a 'lame' post wreaks of hypocrisy. You have yet to address his valid concerns and frankly, by your above quote I think you are way off base. Your statement speaks more to you than it does to him. The vast majority of folks on here seem to side with DL, not you. At what point does one ever realize they might be in the minority?
    If you feel that this 'minority' only exists on MTBR then why bother posting here? You gain nothing but ill will as far as I can tell.

    I have one question for you. Why is it whenever anyone posts anything but full agreement with your statements you either full out attack them or give them a back-handed compliment. I mean I recently posted in this thread, gave no flack to you, just some e-net humor and some solid advice about Sedona trails and you felt the need to slight me with some comment about how I must need 'simplicity'. If you were a paid ambassador, you'd be fired.
    ed:

    You are exactly correct if I was a paid ambassador I would be fired that is why I am not an ambassador, I am a self-appointed ambassador, so I can do what I believe to be good for Sedona and not be worried about being fired. You choose to side with those that don't think my improvements are improving the majority of the users experience and that is fine with me, but it is not going to stop me from continuing with my goal to make Sedona one of the best riding destinations in the US.

    Next week I am meeting with the FS to discuss several different trail improvement sections on two different trails. My hope is that when they give me the OK we are going to pull the jackhammer out of their pickup and we are going to finish the first improvement within an hour or more.

    As far as attacking DL I would love to ride with him (and the rest of the TD haters) on his favorite Sedona trails to see the trails and sections he is unable to ride. My hope is that he (and others) will be able to ride better than me so I can eat humble pie, that certainly would be proper justice.

    Sunday we are going to do a fun ride: Plumber's Crack to Tim's Wash to Dry Creek to Last Frontier to Western Civ to Cockscomb to Aerie to Mescal to Gunsmoke to Gunslinger to Chuck Wagon to Touron to Lost Watch to Lower Lizardhead. Come join us for little Sedona epic riding.

    I say put up or let's keep fishing.

    TD
    Last edited by traildoc; 04-15-2011 at 08:58 PM.

  44. #44
    EDR
    Reputation: eatdrinkride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,245
    You choose to side with those that don't think my improvements are improving the majority of the users experience and that is fine with me
    TD: When have I ever stated I was against you're improvements? Can you quote 3 sentences from me where I said you should leave the trails alone? Can you quote one?

    Do you even recognize your allies from your foes in your efforts to improve Sedona trails? Can you tell me which category I fall into? Please don't let our current net-bantering influence you're answer.

  45. #45
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    TD: When have I ever stated I was against you're improvements? Can you quote 3 sentences from me where I said you should leave the trails alone? Can you quote one?

    Do you even recognize your allies from your foes in your efforts to improve Sedona trails? Can you tell me which category I fall into?
    ed:

    You are one of my biggest Allies and I do apprecite it very much .Thanks again for your support. Where do you want me to send your check? Are you coming up for the Sunday ride?

    TD

  46. #46
    EDR
    Reputation: eatdrinkride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,245
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    ed:

    You are one of my biggest Allies and I do apprecite it very much .Thanks again for your support. Where do you want me to send your check? Are you coming up for the Sunday ride?

    TD
    TD: I'd love to come for a ride, and some day I will. With a family of 4 and a full time job my Sedona rides are far and few between.

    As far as the check goes, once again...I'm not sure if you are giving me a back-handed compliment, being relatively sincere, or just being crass. But either way, I'll still wait for your reply to my questions previously posted. I'm sure you will address them to some degree, after all, you don't want to just post 'lame' comments on mtbr

    Take care, hope to see ya on the trails some day

  47. #47
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    TD: I'd love to come for a ride, and some day I will. With a family of 4 and a full time job my Sedona rides are far and few between.

    As far as the check goes, once again...I'm not sure if you are giving me a back-handed compliment, being relatively sincere, or just being crass. But either way, I'll still wait for your reply to my questions previously posted. I'm sure you will address them to some degree, after all, you don't want to just post 'lame' comments on mtbr

    Take care, hope to see ya on the trails some day
    ed:

    All right let's take one question at a time. Which one do you want me to answer first? If you ask something that could ruin my freedom, I will probably plead the 5th.

    Here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ii6pKNO2I) of one of my next trail improvement project and a picture of the top step that I hope to cut down into a ramp per my pervious drawing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Looking for Trail Improvement Opportunities-munds-first-step-b.jpg  

    Last edited by traildoc; 04-16-2011 at 09:29 AM.

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: berzerker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    350
    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    ed:

    All right let's take one question at a time. Which one do you want me to answer first? If you ask something that could ruin my freedom, I will probably plead the 5th.

    Here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ii6pKNO2I) of one of my next trail improvement project and a picture of the top step that I hope to cut down into a ramp per my pervious drawing.
    You can't argue with crazy.

  49. #49
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by berzerker
    You can't argue with crazy.
    bezerk:

    You got that right. Probably the only thing we will agree on. When you fill up your gas tank do you ever think the US should have a different energy policy? Do you think ethanol is a joke?

    TD

  50. #50
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    60
    there is no work to be done in the pic you posted

    I can clear it both ways

    go learn how to ride your bike

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: bazooka_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    393
    We ride stuff WAY worse than that every day here in phoenix. Wouldn't it be much more rewarding to improve yourself and be able to climb obstacles such as that, rather than dumb down the earth to make it "easier?"
    "There's nothing like touching earth you've never touched"

  52. #52
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    60
    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger
    You seem sad. Come on up to flag I'll show you around on some non-dumbed down chunky trails. I'll buy the ice-cream and beer and cheer you up.
    I'm being serious.

    Thanks

    PM Sent

  53. #53
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    az & bazook:

    You need to get your butts up here and show me your phoenix bike skills. Remember pictures can be deceiving. I am not trying to sucker you into making you look stupid, but I am confident neither the two of you can clear it. I am so confident that if we can video both of you riding that spot clean I won't proceed with the fix. I am meeting with the FS on Thursday. Hopefully they are bringing out BIG BERTHA to chisel down that rock.

    If I have video of you two cleaning it I will take the the FS over to Two Fences to improve that section. I will met you guys any time day or night to get the video done. Maybe I should stop my water pump project and go out and practice riding. I am trying to save a few bucks during these trying times. I am taking early SS before the country goes bankrupt. Got the water pump on Ebay for $32.

    TD
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Looking for Trail Improvement Opportunities-001a.jpg  

    Looking for Trail Improvement Opportunities-002b.jpg  


  54. #54
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    60
    You will be on video with your jackhammer

    wear something pretty would you doc? you're likely gonna make the news...

    Friends of mine in the land of red rocks are watching you...

  55. #55
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by azphxrider
    You will be on video with your jackhammer

    wear something pretty would you doc? you're likely gonna make the news...

    Friends of mine in the land of red rocks are watching you...
    az:

    I hope you survive your apprenticeship in MTBR. When I checked your posts you seem to have a big interest in my posts. Hope you are enjoying the entertainment you are one of the key actors.

    If you get a chance come up to Sedona and I will take you on this ride, I know you will enjoy it. Lots of trail improvements: http://www.everytrail.com/tell_story...rip_id=1044970 The video is almost done, DurtGurl enjoy , good place to test out your new hip.

    TD

  56. #56
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    60
    Brah, now I feel pretty bad for you after seeing a picture of your car. Wow. You call that financially secure?

    It needs lots more than a water pump. Does that thing even run? Where are the wheels!

    I imagine upgrades to better your riding skillz will have to come second to your automobile. Me, I just bought a new frame,

    " the better to out ride you with" in my red riding hood WOLF voice.

    Its all starting to make sense, now,why youre unable to clear stuff we call 'easy' down by me.

  57. #57
    banned
    Reputation: traildoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,540
    Quote Originally Posted by azphxrider
    Brah, now I feel pretty bad for you after seeing a picture of your car. Wow. You call that financially secure?

    It needs lots more than a water pump. Does that thing even run? Where are the wheels!

    I imagine upgrades to better your riding skillz will have to come second to your automobile. Me, I just bought a new frame,

    " the better to out ride you with" in my red riding hood WOLF voice.

    Its all starting to make sense, now,why youre unable to clear stuff we call 'easy' down by me.
    I hope to show a picture of me driving that good old station wagon. I paid $6,500 for her in 96 and she has been going strong ever since. I can't wait for my Social Security to start. I look forward to riding with you some day . Have you been watching the Huckabee show tonight? You could learn a few things for that show? Signing off for today-Good Night

    TD

  58. #58
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    60
    Doc,

    the community has spoken

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=701914

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,341
    Quote Originally Posted by azphxrider
    No, azphenisrider and a couple of others have spoken, now go away.

  60. #60
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,251
    Quote Originally Posted by azphxrider
    Brah, now I feel pretty bad for you after seeing a picture of your car. Wow. You call that financially secure?

    It needs lots more than a water pump. Does that thing even run? Where are the wheels!

    I imagine upgrades to better your riding skillz will have to come second to your automobile. Me, I just bought a new frame,

    " the better to out ride you with" in my red riding hood WOLF voice.

    Its all starting to make sense, now,why youre unable to clear stuff we call 'easy' down by me.

    Are you in elementary school? Baggin' on someones car while bragging about getting a new frame is pretty sophomoric.




  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    3,341
    Quote Originally Posted by azphxrider
    Brah, now I feel pretty bad for you after seeing a picture of your car. Wow. You call that financially secure?

    It needs lots more than a water pump. Does that thing even run? Where are the wheels!

    I imagine upgrades to better your riding skillz will have to come second to your automobile. Me, I just bought a new frame,

    " the better to out ride you with" in my red riding hood WOLF voice.

    Its all starting to make sense, now,why youre unable to clear stuff we call 'easy' down by me.
    Your just a dick.

  62. #62
    locked - time out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    60
    what does that make Traildoc for making the trails as he sees fits?
    Last edited by azphxrider; 04-19-2011 at 09:03 AM.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.