Justin Great Job on Broken Arrow!!!!!!!!- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Justin Great Job on Broken Arrow!!!!!!!!

    Jaustin:

    My wife and I headed out to Broken Arrow trail today to check out all the trail improvements that CREC had added to this very popular connector trail. We initially rode the trail from the Broken Arrow Trailhead at the end of Morgan Road.

    Trail conditions were almost perfect and there were plenty of Pink Jeepers out enjoying the scenery.

    The narrowing down of the trail was a nice addition and the improvement of the section with that stupid log you removed was plenty challenging.

    There was only one spot I didn't clean on the uphill ride and one on the downhill. Both were on really STEEP spots that I ran out of mojo on.

    I am doing up a video of the ride and will post when it's finished downloading.

    Thanks for keeping the mountain biking user experience in mind.

    TD

  2. #2
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    Here is the video of yesterdays ride: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djTs3mFicXI in case those who haven't seen the over 100 videos out there and would like to see what some of the new sections look like. If you can clean those those two uphill sections in either direction you are diffently a World Class Uphill Rider .

    While we were up there we ran into Ranger77 who had been up checking out Sick Boy and probably the Hogs.

    Enjoy,

    TD
    Last edited by traildoc; 03-26-2011 at 01:09 PM.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the compliments. There are many, many spots on that trail that could use additional work.
    Professional Trail Builder and Guvmint Employee

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    The area I keep referring to in our speakings is in TD's video of BA at about 4:18. Again, I could be just getting used to a new trail, but it might be worth assessing to prevent, rather than in three years, doing major maint. Keep up the good work!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinwp
    Thanks for the compliments. There are many, many spots on that trail that could use additional work.

    Justin:

    I have been meaning to fix that stupid climbing right hand turn with the log for several years. When Hog Heaven was born we use to ride up Broken Arrow a lot to ride down Hog Heaven. Then when High on the Hog was born we started riding Chaple to Little Horse, so we didn't ride up Broken Arrow, so I lost interest in fixing that climb.

    When you do a fix to a spot like that what mountain biker skill level are you trying to dumb the trail down to? Neither of the two riders in the video cleaned the whole section and my wife also walked it. I was happy to clean it on my first attempt, but I could have easily dabbed and I consider myself lucky to have cleaned it.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by justinwp
    Thanks for the compliments. There are many, many spots on that trail that could use additional work.
    Thank you as well.
    Not too much work, I like the rest of it "just the way it is"

    what other spots did you think needed work?

    seriously Justin, Nicely done!

    TD:
    I much prefer the Justin way, over your typical wheelchair ramp way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azphxrider
    Thank you as well.
    Not too much work, I like the rest of it "just the way it is"

    what other spots did you think needed work?

    seriously Justin, Nicely done!

    TD:
    I much prefer the Justin way, over your typical wheelchair ramp way.
    az:

    Since Justin hasn't answered my question I assume he doesn't really want to answer my question for some special reason. Others I have talked to about it think CREC did whatever they had to do to make it the way it is and didn't really think about the degree of difficulty that it would be for mountain bikers.

    TD

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    The difficulty level is perfect Doc. Why, do you always try to cater to the masses 'current skill level'

    how will anyone improve? I am glad you cleared it. I clear it now too, couldnt before.
    Its just right.

    You do good work, just keep it chunky and you will get less heat here

    even noobs can learn how to blip up a little ledge.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by azphxrider
    The difficulty level is perfect Doc. Why, do you always try to cater to the masses 'current skill level'

    how will anyone improve? I am glad you cleared it. I clear it now too, couldnt before.
    Its just right.

    You do good work, just keep it chunky and you will get less heat here

    even noobs can learn how to blip up a little ledge.
    az:

    Can you be a little clearer, I don't understand your point? I was asking Justin a question not you.

    TD

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    ...and the circular arguing starts.....NOW

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc
    Justin:

    I have been meaning to fix that stupid climbing right hand turn with the log for several years. When Hog Heaven was born we use to ride up Broken Arrow a lot to ride down Hog Heaven. Then when High on the Hog was born we started riding Chaple to Little Horse, so we didn't ride up Broken Arrow, so I lost interest in fixing that climb.

    When you do a fix to a spot like that what mountain biker skill level are you trying to dumb the trail down to? Neither of the two riders in the video cleaned the whole section and my wife also walked it. I was happy to clean it on my first attempt, but I could have easily dabbed and I consider myself lucky to have cleaned it.

    TD
    When I approach a project spot, I do not consider difficulty for bikers that much. the difficulty is going to result from existing factors such as grade, soil type, and rocks available. These projects cannot be built to an engineers plans and just develop organically. You never know if there is bedrock 6 inches under the tread or how a rock is going to want to set and if one of those rocks is 500-1000lbs, it just goes where it wants to go. Of course I can adjust the difficulty with how much I tilt a rock or keep a lip as a step, but it usually a balance of the preferences of the different user groups.

    I have also been considering making long stretches progressively more difficult as you go up it. This seems like a good idea to satisfy bikers of different skill levels more than just making it easy or super difficult.

    We got a bit of flack for one spot on Munds Wagon that has just a slight bend in it. It is definitely difficult but going down should be no problem and the way I see it is that anyone that makes it up the first little bit will do just fine anyway. We were told to simply straighten the entire line which kind of sucks for hikers and horses. Plus it does not seem as natural. I may have set the one rock a little more inline if I had been there but I can supervise every rock being set. The other problem above this one rock is that the bedrock pushes you hard to one side and there isn't much that can be done about that.
    Professional Trail Builder and Guvmint Employee

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinwp
    When I approach a project spot, I do not consider difficulty for bikers that much. the difficulty is going to result from existing factors such as grade, soil type, and rocks available. These projects cannot be built to an engineers plans and just develop organically. You never know if there is bedrock 6 inches under the tread or how a rock is going to want to set and if one of those rocks is 500-1000lbs, it just goes where it wants to go. Of course I can adjust the difficulty with how much I tilt a rock or keep a lip as a step, but it usually a balance of the preferences of the different user groups.

    I have also been considering making long stretches progressively more difficult as you go up it. This seems like a good idea to satisfy bikers of different skill levels more than just making it easy or super difficult.

    We got a bit of flack for one spot on Munds Wagon that has just a slight bend in it. It is definitely difficult but going down should be no problem and the way I see it is that anyone that makes it up the first little bit will do just fine anyway. We were told to simply straighten the entire line which kind of sucks for hikers and horses. Plus it does not seem as natural. I may have set the one rock a little more inline if I had been there but I can supervise every rock being set. The other problem above this one rock is that the bedrock pushes you hard to one side and there isn't much that can be done about that.

    justin:

    Thanks again for your post. It is nice to know you are taking the mountain bikers into account when you are doing a trail improvement. In the past we have felt we were left out of the equation.

    TD


    TD

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