Help! State Parks and Arizona Trail in trouble new legistlation- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    46

    Help! State Parks and Arizona Trail in trouble new legistlation

    Everyone,

    This came across my plate today and is very alarming. This will effect our State Parks, trails and the Arizona Trail in particular. As you know we all enjoy the AZT for the out door back country it offers. Also all the hard work that has went into making the dream come true. Heck a few of you on here do the 300 and 750 a few times.

    If this goes thru then besides the AZT being crippled so would our ther State Parks and trails.

    Here is the following to help protect our State Parks and precious AZT that we have visitors hitting up from around the world.

    This came across my plate today and is very alarming. This will affect our State Parks and Trails statewide.

    There is a House Bill (2369) that was recently introduced that would eliminate the Arizona State Parks Board and transfer all control and responsibility to the State Parks Director.

    The State Parks Board is the only mechanism for citizen involvement and oversight for directors like the one we currently have, and her push to eliminate the Board would give her unilateral control of Arizona’s state parks and trails. This would be bad for the state, even worse for the parks, and could have detrimental impacts to trails and especially the Arizona Trail.
    Unfortunately, this legislation was unanimously passed by the House Rules Committee yesterday. Please consider calling and emailing your Representatives to communicate opposition to the measure as it moves to the House Floor.
    Please take a moment today and reach out to legislators to voice your personal position. I think it’s important that individuals who care about Arizona’s state parks and trails are aware of what’s happening behind the scenes.


    Click here to locate the House Representatives from your district.
    Click here to locate the Senator from your district.


    One more thing you can do is add your name to the list of individuals who care deeply about Arizona’s state parks and oppose HB2369. Sign onto the “Coalition to Keep Arizona State Parks Board” letter by clicking on: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdH_AmmkaSfhx0QX8YnduSOK2pIGLocvSNEDq0Si1S8 guiIvQ/viewform. This letter will be forwarded to the Governor and all members of the Senate and House.


    Please let your Representatives know Arizona needs to maintain our State Parks Board, and please share this important message with as many people as you’d like.
    Last edited by crashlongjohns; 02-15-2017 at 07:29 AM.

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ECEGatorTuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    817
    WTF?! Sharing this on FB.
    Shit happens...

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    1,474
    Can't the people who use the AZT form a volunteer group to maintain the trail? The State seems to be doing this because they have a budget problem not because they don't like mountain bikers. You could also start an AZT nonprofit where AZT users who don't volunteer to work on the trail donate money to hire trail crews like ACE out of Flagstaff. Maybe IMBA could do monthly volunteer work days.

  4. #4
    DFL>DNF>DNS
    Reputation: schillingsworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    3,102
    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Can't the people who use the AZT form a volunteer group to maintain the trail? The State seems to be doing this because they have a budget problem not because they don't like mountain bikers. You could also start an AZT nonprofit where AZT users who don't volunteer to work on the trail donate money to hire trail crews like ACE out of Flagstaff. Maybe IMBA could do monthly volunteer work days.
    They already do!! Most of the work done by the ATA is volunteer based, the OP for example is a volunteer trail steward.
    My Two Schillingsworth


    Ultra Endurance Posters & More: Posters/T-shirts & Stuff

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,993
    Ok reading the text of the bill. (see link) here.

    HB2369 - 531R - I Ver

    It does as stated in the original post replace the State parks Board with a director. Seems on a quick initial reading that all decision made in the past by the board will now be made by the director. So that leads me to question who is the state parks board.

    Looking that up I see them here. https://azstateparks.com/arizona-state-parks-board/

    From this I see the board was created in 1957 so it has been around a while.

    It consists of 6 people plus an executive director all appear to have been appointed by the Governor at various time. Not sure how long terms run, but seems like a long time as some expire in 2021.


    Not really sure how the board works as compared to the impact of a single person. Seems like if these people are all paid then cutting them will reduce budget. Personally I am not ready to say this a bad idea just yet.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,993
    All I am interested to know more about Sue Black the current executive director. From the limited searching I have done I have not come up with anything that seems unusual.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ECEGatorTuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    817
    In my opinion, consolidation of power is never a good thing. Especially when someone can unilaterally make decisions without any public input.
    Shit happens...

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,993
    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    In my opinion, consolidation of power is never a good thing. Especially when someone can unilaterally make decisions without any public input.
    It all depends on the make up of the board. Looking at the bill again I don't see any changes to the requirements for public input. I have not read it word for word, but when I scan it it has the appearance of word replacement from "board" to director. Plus some other wording changes. Now I could be missing something big, but it appears that is the only substantive change. What this means to me however is we need to know more about the director as this one person will have more control. However that is not always a bad thing because working in committees can be hard to get enough people to agree to anything. So I do see this as something to be looked at, but I am not ready to declare this bad for us. In some ways it may be better if the director serves at the pleasure of the Governor. If we don't like what she is doing we can put pressure on the Governor to replace her and/or replace governor. The current board seems to have 6 year or longer terms and if you get a couple bad apples there it may be harder to put pressure on the governor to replace them. It may take years to clean out the board. So for now I am interested, but not ready to go either way.

    Personally I perfer to make informed decisions vs knee jerk reactions. As we all know not everything you see posted on the old interwebs are accurate. You have to do your homework before you jump to a position. Before today I did not even know there was a state parks board.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ECEGatorTuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    817
    Fair point. I can't argue with that.
    Shit happens...

  10. #10
    livin' the dream......
    Reputation: tjkm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,852
    Joe dropping the heavy logic. Well stated!
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  11. #11
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,243
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    It all depends on the make up of the board. Looking at the bill again I don't see any changes to the requirements for public input. I have not read it word for word, but when I scan it it has the appearance of word replacement from "board" to director. Plus some other wording changes. Now I could be missing something big, but it appears that is the only substantive change. What this means to me however is we need to know more about the director as this one person will have more control. However that is not always a bad thing because working in committees can be hard to get enough people to agree to anything. So I do see this as something to be looked at, but I am not ready to declare this bad for us. In some ways it may be better if the director serves at the pleasure of the Governor. If we don't like what she is doing we can put pressure on the Governor to replace her and/or replace governor. The current board seems to have 6 year or longer terms and if you get a couple bad apples there it may be harder to put pressure on the governor to replace them. It may take years to clean out the board. So for now I am interested, but not ready to go either way.

    Personally I perfer to make informed decisions vs knee jerk reactions. As we all know not everything you see posted on the old interwebs are accurate. You have to do your homework before you jump to a position. Before today I did not even know there was a state parks board.
    agreed, but you need to view this through the lens of our state leadership - its all about business development and lower taxes. These are not always good things. They already funded schools by raiding the state trust land. Do you trust Ducey and the republican-controlled legislature? They will likely promote this as cutting government excess by eliminating positions, and then find ways to sell off additional public lands.

    I agree Joe in a perfect world we should listen, but when it comes to our state and national kleptocracy, I think we need to question any attempt by the powers-that-be for consolidating power and assume the worst of their motivations.

    Hey, anyone wanna pay over $200 million for a hockey stadium?
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  12. #12
    Location: 10 ft from Hell Moderator
    Reputation: life behind bars's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,199
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    They already funded schools by raiding the state trust land.



    This was done by way of a ballot initiative no?
    "These things are very fancy commuter bikes or really bad dirt bikes, but they are not mountain bikes." - J. Mac

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,993
    I am not trying to take sides on this issue yet. I am just presenting the the idea of doing some homework and thinking before we assume anything in particular.


    I will say that it is very easy to say "I do not vote for this governor and therefore I don't trust and thing he has done/will do/appoint etc". That is in reality a little too easy. Also realize the at local levels party affiliation is not always a clear determination of how any individual will support certain activities.

    I have a healthy distrust in all government and generally believe the less money they have play around with the less they can screw-up.

    Seems to me the best idea here is to contact your local representative and ask them to provide their understanding of what this bill will do and why they plan to support it or not. How they respond (if the respond) can be very telling and in my opinion can be better than just outright protest or support. Seems to me if more people took the time to try to understand issues rather than just react that we can be smarter. That situation applies to elected officials as well.

    I think one big and legitimate concern is collecting more power in one person and that leading to what is perceived as "miss-use" of funds. For us as Mtn bikers that mean redirecting funds for trails to other things. I think we would all argue that trails all over the state add value by improving quality of life at low cost to the taxpayer. I would tend to think that all people see these as valueable, but would place them differently in order of importance. When tax payer funds are limited questions go to where those limited funds will be spent.


    Let me also share with you the idea that things do always go right. Just last year City of Phx spent tax payer money on new 5k running loop at Papago Park. So not only did they destroy perfectly good mtb trails, but also (in my opinion) wasted tax dollars. So it was a lose-lose. Now they might spend more money to "fix" something that really cannot be fixed. I have not dug into who approved that one if it was 1 person or small committee. I think these are kinds of things we fear might happen with change to the state parks, but I am not sure that it could not happen today.

    These 6 people on the current board... Do they consider Mtn biking a valid activity or is the last on thier priority list? What of the new state park director is an avid mtn biker... Now will get tons more trails for riding?

    Not a simple question.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: JoePAz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,993
    Let me add one more thing.

    I think discussion is good. Healthy debate where people are open to new information and insights. I think that in last 18 months especially is has become darn near impossible to have reasonable debates on certain topics. Nobody wants to list to arguments and use their minds to assess the facts. They all want to just state "my way is the right way" or "his way is the wrong way". There can be right and wrong ways, but if we do not discuss and share we cannot hope to come to the right one. If your position is correct healthy discussion will just support it. If your position is not correct then a healthy discussion will be informative to show you why.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  15. #15
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,243
    Quote Originally Posted by tiretracks View Post
    This was done by way of a ballot initiative no?
    supported by a $5M campaign supported by the state's two richest men, vs an $8000 campaign run by a recent college grad from Tucson. And there has been no Step 456 in 8 months. But sure, the people voted, and taxes werent raised.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  16. #16
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,243
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I am not trying to take sides on this issue yet. I am just presenting the the idea of doing some homework and thinking before we assume anything in particular.


    I will say that it is very easy to say "I do not vote for this governor and therefore I don't trust and thing he has done/will do/appoint etc". That is in reality a little too easy. Also realize the at local levels party affiliation is not always a clear determination of how any individual will support certain activities.

    I have a healthy distrust in all government and generally believe the less money they have play around with the less they can screw-up.

    Seems to me the best idea here is to contact your local representative and ask them to provide their understanding of what this bill will do and why they plan to support it or not. How they respond (if the respond) can be very telling and in my opinion can be better than just outright protest or support. Seems to me if more people took the time to try to understand issues rather than just react that we can be smarter. That situation applies to elected officials as well.

    I think one big and legitimate concern is collecting more power in one person and that leading to what is perceived as "miss-use" of funds. For us as Mtn bikers that mean redirecting funds for trails to other things. I think we would all argue that trails all over the state add value by improving quality of life at low cost to the taxpayer. I would tend to think that all people see these as valueable, but would place them differently in order of importance. When tax payer funds are limited questions go to where those limited funds will be spent.


    Let me also share with you the idea that things do always go right. Just last year City of Phx spent tax payer money on new 5k running loop at Papago Park. So not only did they destroy perfectly good mtb trails, but also (in my opinion) wasted tax dollars. So it was a lose-lose. Now they might spend more money to "fix" something that really cannot be fixed. I have not dug into who approved that one if it was 1 person or small committee. I think these are kinds of things we fear might happen with change to the state parks, but I am not sure that it could not happen today.

    These 6 people on the current board... Do they consider Mtn biking a valid activity or is the last on thier priority list? What of the new state park director is an avid mtn biker... Now will get tons more trails for riding?

    Not a simple question.
    I agree, do your homework. But to discount the actors is foolish.

    As some of you know, I'm one of the principals behind the group fighting the against the Desert Discovery Center at the Gateway Trailhead in the McDowells without a public vote. 5 people on our City Council are using an interpretation by the City Attorney to justify completely ignoring the Preserve Ordinance and the City Charter and building anything and spending any amount of money the Council wants by simple majority vote. The interpretation is (arguably) very very bad, but the City Attorney works for the Mayor, not the citizens. He now has millions in our tax dollars to fight any legal effort by the citizens. Just today one of the Council who is this project's strongest supporters came out and acknowledged that Scottsdale's capital fund has about $30M in it, and about $80M in needs. So why on earth would you be so hell-bent on building a massive public works project when the city cant afford it...unless you planed to use the $100M left in the McDowell Preserve Fund, by simple Council Majority? This very same Counciperson - Virginia Korte - commented *twice* in the 2004 Scottsdale bond election about the need for the fund for land, and never once about building a museum. These are facts based on research. But as I've gotten involved with other political groups in the City you see this same pattern over and over again by Korte and several others. To the point where mostly I dont trust anything she says.

    Here is the opinion of the City Attorney to deny a vote over land the people taxed themselves to buy and wrote into their City Charter they should be allowed to vote: https://www.noddc.org/wp-content/upl...12_funding.jpg

    And here, just last week, is a member of our group getting denies his first amendment rights at the public comments section of the City Council meeting and subsequently being arrested by Mayor Jim Lane:


    topic research, or, reputation? You tell me.

    I could go on about meetings I've had in the last few weeks with our State Senator John Kavanagh and State Rep Jay Lawrence, both of whom refused to invoke a law that Kavanagh authored to prevent this very situation where a City violates the law. Both declined to be involved. This is the law being used by the State AG to sue Tucson for destroying confiscated guns instead of selling them. So I guess its ok when the Republicans from Phx invoke a law for a pet-topic like firearms, but not when citizens taxes and voting rights are usurped. Again, topic research, or reputation if I dont have trust in Kavanagh or Lawrence?

    Our current Governor and legislature, and really the entire Republican party at a national level, has shown a disgusting track record recently towards public lands and the environment. Have you read about the bill to simply terminate the entire EPA at the end of 2018?
    https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...house-bill/861

    Sure, do research, by all means and please share it. But dont discount track records. Laws and policy is not a vacuum, its a continuum.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    753
    Thanks crashlongjohns for the heads up.

    To most of us it seems so obvious that we should oppose this it barely warrants any consideration.

    When it comes to state parks and state lands I will not give any benefit of doubt to our state government. The track record is not good.
    When was the last time a state park was expanded or given an increased operating budget. Closures, funds sweeps massive lay offs and rerouting of fees collected?
    This is not speculation or fear this is what state parks have to endure.

    It might seem mundane now but I have no doubt they will use this later to screw stuff up or siphon off money. I have no trust that this will not result in some person being made director that will bring about destructive decisions in the near future. Find me a single example to make me believe the contrary. Of course my main recourse is to contact the representative for my district Silvia Allen, whom I have little confidence in.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,374
    Quote Originally Posted by crashlongjohns View Post
    Everyone,

    This came across my plate today and is very alarming.
    OMG...my heart rate is through the roof...please tell me more! I have the wife and the kids all in the panic room waiting for the zombies!!

    Quote Originally Posted by crashlongjohns View Post
    This will effect our State Parks, trails and the Arizona Trail in particular.
    Oh....so...no zombies?

    Quote Originally Posted by crashlongjohns View Post
    If this goes thru then besides the AZT being crippled so would our ther State Parks and trails.
    CRIPPLED? HOW? WHY? Someone wants to break the AZT's legs!?!? Please tell me more!!



    Is there a way that someone can get their point aross without sounding histerical and hyperbolic? Just give us the facts, please...

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    300
    Thanks for the great commentary chollla!! I agree ... I trust the republicans in our gov. with our public lands about as far as I can throw my F-150.

Similar Threads

  1. CA state parks, trail wording for bicycles
    By ocd in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-05-2014, 08:11 PM
  2. Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-27-2012, 10:06 AM
  3. PA State Parks
    By jbev88 in forum Pennsylvania
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-03-2012, 08:32 AM
  4. ot: State Parks
    By pauly mac in forum California - Norcal
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-15-2012, 12:51 PM
  5. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-01-2011, 06:14 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.