Helmetless Riders- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Helmetless Riders

    I've seen more helmetless riders this winter on PMP then I ever have before. Maybe the rocks are softer this year?
    "Because I was profiling and it looked stolen.
    90% of everything in my neighborhood is stolen." - Me

  2. #2
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    It's like riding on the sidewalk...take your chances. Personally, unless it messes up my ride, it really doesn't bother me if they fall on their heads around the corner. If they can afford a bike and a car to get to the ride, then not buying a helmet is a choice. Like being mentally retarded after a crash. hehe.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZspeeding
    It's like riding on the sidewalk...take your chances. Personally, unless it messes up my ride, it really doesn't bother me if they fall on their heads around the corner. If they can afford a bike and a car to get to the ride, then not buying a helmet is a choice. Like being mentally retarded after a crash. hehe.
    You are mean Mr. Speeding.

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  4. #4
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    I've seen the same at SoMo too. Mostly too cool teens, but some adults as well. Luckily, most of them were traveling in pairs, so I figured one will spill their brains all over the trail, and the other will learn to wear a helmet.
    Today's the day I eat bikes.

  5. #5
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    Blonde and helmetless

    I ran into a very attractive young blonde woman Sunday last on BCT. The section with significant exposure from RST down to the river. Yikes......I asked her why? she simply answered, I don't feel as free without the wind in my hair.

    To each his or her own.

    Steve

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by chipolopolo
    I ran into a very attractive young blonde woman Sunday last on BCT. The section with significant exposure from RST down to the river. Yikes......I asked her why? she simply answered, I don't feel as free without the wind in my hair.

    To each his or her own.

    Steve
    You should have suggested that she try riding shirtless instead.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenobite39
    You should have suggested that she try riding shirtless instead.
    Dang.....and here I am thinkin nobody heard me

    Steve

  8. #8
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    Look at the bright side, they're potential organ donors for those needing transplants.

  9. #9
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    It's their head, thier concussion and thier problem not ours.

    If they are lying in the trail dead, and I move them out of the way is that trail sanitation or do I just use them as added gnar?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenobite39
    You should have suggested that she try riding shirtless instead.

    Trust me, be careful what you ask for!!!!! I ask Cenobuns once and now he NEVER rides WITH a shirt .................Drew

  11. #11
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    The real question is why you made the request in the first place.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cato
    Look at the bright side, they're potential organ donors for those needing transplants.
    I wish I knew how to add this to my sig. I got a good laugh, thanks.
    Flyin the TallBoy and the Lynskey...Clyde style.


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  13. #13
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    I agree with it being a choice, but it should be an educated one. people getting injured on the trail endangers our sport on the whole. Trail closures and bans can happen because of liability and product safety issues. It comes down to choices and consequences, and being responsible and considerate in ones actions. people tend to think "when I ride without a helmet, it only hurts me"
    RAM speed: UP, UP, and away....!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHORN LEW
    I agree with it being a choice, but it should be an educated one. people getting injured on the trail endangers our sport on the whole. Trail closures and bans can happen because of liability and product safety issues. It comes down to choices and consequences, and being responsible and considerate in ones actions. people tend to think "when I ride without a helmet, it only hurts me"

    Well said. It is everyone's problem because those of us who do not suffer the immediate consequences of not wearing a lid, suffer the by-products of the consequences of those that do not.

    Same old, same old -- the few end up dictating the restrictive laws the rest of us have to live by.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cenobite39
    You should have suggested that she try riding shirtless instead.
    Lol..., Nice

  16. #16
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    + 1 cstem. While i ride with a helment, i dont care if people ride without.When will big brother stop? I dont ride with armour or gloves but this is my free choice.I never want to be forced into wearing more stuff just to go riding, but thats just me.

  17. #17
    Meatbomb
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    these days, insurance co. may not honor a claim for injuries in a car accident if you were not wearing a seat belt. I bet they would do the same for a MTB related injury if you were not wearing a helmet. MTB is considered a high risk sport to some co.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    these days, insurance co. may not honor a claim for injuries in a car accident if you were not wearing a seat belt. I bet they would do the same for a MTB related injury if you were not wearing a helmet. MTB is considered a high risk sport to some co.
    Never admit to your insurance carrier that you even have a bicycle at all. If you do get injured, tell them you fell off a ladder or something like that.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHORN LEW
    I agree with it being a choice, but it should be an educated one. people getting injured on the trail endangers our sport on the whole. Trail closures and bans can happen because of liability and product safety issues. It comes down to choices and consequences, and being responsible and considerate in ones actions. people tend to think "when I ride without a helmet, it only hurts me"
    Lew- I see your point and where you are coming from. BUT -Drunk hikers falling off Camelback after a night in Scottsdales bars have not shut that trail down, nor have the snow birds who get plucked off any one of the parks in the valley. It is an argument that holds no water.

    I ALWAYS wear a helmet and don't think I would ride with anyone who didn't to be honest. I have had more than one set of brains on my hands and I am not a doctor.

    Insurance- they can try to withhold payment if they can prove that you did not take the obvious safety precautions to protect yourself, but without it being law it is just a matter of whose lawyer convinces the jury.

    Making it law is a slippery slope. There is no end to that slope and that scares me.

    Everyone should try this one on for size. How old is your helmet in years? How many hours do you estimate you have on it? Ever dropped it from say six feet? Ever crash in it and just "scrape" the outside of it? If everyone on here answered those questions- I could make a great argument why 60% of you should replace your helmet with a new one TODAY. Just having a bucket on your head does not guarantee your safety. I won't go further because I don't want to thread-jack, but if anyone has some interest in learning about safety gear- PM me.
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  20. #20
    Meatbomb
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    Quote Originally Posted by berzerker
    Never admit to your insurance carrier that you even have a bicycle at all. If you do get injured, tell them you fell off a ladder or something like that.

    2 people you should never lie too... your doctor and your lawyer. they both need to know the truth to properly help you.

  21. #21
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    you think insurance premiums for 29er riders would be 11.5% more due to the height?

  22. #22
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    I don't think insurance can withhold $ if your in a car wreck and not wearing your seatbelt.
    Wouldn't they argue then that they won't pay because you ran a red light, or were speeding etc...?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    I don't think insurance can withhold $ if your in a car wreck and not wearing your seatbelt.
    Wouldn't they argue then that they won't pay because you ran a red light, or were speeding etc...?
    The term the adjuster may use is "comparative negligence" .......=( insured) get hosed...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    I don't think insurance can withhold $ if your in a car wreck and not wearing your seatbelt.
    Wouldn't they argue then that they won't pay because you ran a red light, or were speeding etc...?

    AJ I spoke really briefly with my sis in law who is an insurance adjuster and used to do the big ticket claims-mostly ones that resulted in death or dismemberment. An insurance company has a very good case in court to not pay the insured for thier injuries and vehilce if they are breaking a law-such as a seat belt law. They cannot however deny payment to the other person involved because the insured broke the law.
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  25. #25
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    Javelina and cstem:
    Interesting stuff. Sounds like the bottom line is the lawyers win in the end.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo
    2 people you should never lie too... your doctor and your lawyer. they both need to know the truth to properly help you.
    +1
    It could negatively impact your well being for the rest of your life if you B.S. your doctor ,wrong treatment for an injury that need's orthopaedic care & physical therapy needs specific detail on cause.The lawyers know how to negotiate with doctors and hospitals to get your bills reduced, unfortunately it may cost a bit.It's amazing how much a couple days in the hospital cost and it can easily exceed a policy limit....

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem
    Insurance- they can try to withhold payment if they can prove that you did not take the obvious safety precautions to protect yourself, but without it being law it is just a matter of whose lawyer convinces the jury.
    This is a great point to make. And I'll bet that the insurance company is going to have a MUCH better lawyer that any of us will.

    That argument aside I'll take every precaution I can. MTBers NOT wearing a helmet are in the same category as people not wearing their seat belts. It's just God cleaning out the gene pool. I say more people should ride without helmets.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajmelin
    Javelina and cstem:
    Interesting stuff. Sounds like the bottom line is the lawyers win in the end.
    Yep- moral of the story for me is do my thing and hope for the best until it becomes un-fun then try something else. Luckily- bikes have always been fun!
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  29. #29
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    Helmetless riders spotted on DC this am: was heading towards pima and ran into a group of 6 or 7 riders the last 3 without helmets who look like they needed them the most...the last guy was riding a hardtail, sitting down, leg out down that rocky section after the first climb leaving the lot. I was scared for this guy. Did he refuse to wear a helmet on his friends bike or did his friend not have a helmet for him to wear? I for one never let a buddy ride one of my bikes sans helmets...don't want to be responsible for spilling brains on the desert. Just an observation...

  30. #30
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    Shirtless Babes Riding: Approved By Land Managers Despite Moratorium

    Quote Originally Posted by Cenobite39
    You should have suggested that she try riding shirtless instead.
    nothing to say about that quote just wasn't ready to be done with the visual....

    I saw a dude in his young 20's hitting a hitting pretty stiff dirt jump into a natural gully downhill transition repeatedly without one near Schultz creek... I thought I might be on cleanup duty because he didn't really look that solid on his landings. If he was on clipless his foot planting wouldn't have been able able to save him a few times. I would say too inconsistent to warrant no helmet... his landings looked like I feel mine look and my jumps are crapshoots a lot of the time. My first ride with a full face and I ate it and wrecked the side part of the face. I just said hi though I feel it's not my role to judge others comforts zones unless I am either paid or implicitly in the guide or caregiver position... actually I said looking good! as I literally pictured how I would manage an open skull fracture for the first time. He was hitting them with steam though and he was on a NEXT. (walmart) guess ya never know! 90% whats in the engine not the bike...

    I used to lead climb trad and dudes would cruise by me on 3 pitch 5.7 or 5.8's free soloing but they looked smooooooooth.................. not to say they are justified if they have kids they are responsible for etc but they looked comfortably within their skill level. Not that mechanical failure and freak accidents don't happen, my brother is recovering from a cycling wreck from last summer just a fluke downpedal hitting a rock etc sent him flying at high speed.

    100% for helmets 98% of the time

    grant myself immunity when extremely low traffic and salty sweaty uphill conditions exist for extended periods when the helmet hangs on the bar ready to be tossed on for the descent... not that I haven't had bad wrecks going slowly uphill....but I don't mean climbing waterbars etc.

    recently converted to ski snowboard helmet too and love it. witnessed lots of rear head lacerations this winter from young skiers without. Scorpions mostly by ages 8-13 when they start going fast.
    One of these days I'm gonna pull myself together
    Soon as I finish tearin' myself apart

  31. #31
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    Seriously, who cares. People don't explode when they ride helmetless.

    Tom Ritchey never used to wear one.

    I forgot my helmet once on a ride, so I wore all my armor and skipped the helmet. It was fun.

    20 years mountain biking, and maybe one time have I fallen on my head hard enough to be thankful I was wearing the lid.
    Quote Originally Posted by buddhak
    And I thought I had a bike obsession. You are at once tragic and awesome.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem
    AJ I spoke really briefly with my sis in law who is an insurance adjuster and used to do the big ticket claims-mostly ones that resulted in death or dismemberment. An insurance company has a very good case in court to not pay the insured for thier injuries and vehilce if they are breaking a law-such as a seat belt law. They cannot however deny payment to the other person involved because the insured broke the law.
    The law is different in all jurisdictions. Where I live, I don't think you could argue comparative fault unless they wrote that into your insurance contract. Also, if they tried to claim they could, and didn't pay up, you could probably get punitive damages against the insurance company. Regardless, read your insurance contract.That is the law between you and the insurer.

    Disclaimer: this is not legal advice, and I am not a lawyer.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    This is a great point to make. And I'll bet that the insurance company is going to have a MUCH better lawyer that any of us will.

    That argument aside I'll take every precaution I can. MTBers NOT wearing a helmet are in the same category as people not wearing their seat belts. It's just God cleaning out the gene pool. I say more people should ride without helmets.
    So, people who don't wear seatbelts and helmets don't deserve to live?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    So, people who don't wear seatbelts and helmets don't deserve to live?
    No and neither do those who take EVERYTHING they see, hear or read in a literal sense. Take your and Big-O issues somewhere else please.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel
    Seriously, who cares. People don't explode when they ride helmetless.

    Tom Ritchey never used to wear one.

    I forgot my helmet once on a ride, so I wore all my armor and skipped the helmet. It was fun.

    20 years mountain biking, and maybe one time have I fallen on my head hard enough to be thankful I was wearing the lid.

    people don't but thier cheap ass Magic Shine batteries do! I am still using mine since it might work as jet pack and make for a fun ride!
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem
    No and neither do those who take EVERYTHING they see, hear or read in a literal sense. Take your and Big-O issues somewhere else please.
    I was asking Mike.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  37. #37
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    I used to care a lot more about this (and about whether people rode on the sidewalk, among other things). I do care when I roll up on someone who wasn't wearing a helmet, has crashed, and had their bell rung so hard they can't sit up without throwing up. This has happened exactly once in...20 years of riding. So.

    I've probably rung my bell 5 times in 20 years, with just two for-realz concussions in that time (even with the helmet). I personally still feel like it's a good idea to wear one.

    Mostly I see riders without helmets the same way I see riders who think they're safer on the sidewalk: clueless noobs concerned about the wrong things. But hey, being all judgy in silence is a perk of getting old! :-)
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I was asking Mike.

    And I am politely asking you to grind your axe with Mike elsewhere please. There is some good clean debate going on here. Try a PM war with Mike or better yet invite him out for a ride with post ride burritos!
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem
    And I am politely asking you to grind your axe with Mike elsewhere please. There is some good clean debate going on here. Try a PM war with Mike or better yet invite him out for a ride with post ride burritos!
    oh, STFU.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by yetisurly
    oh, STFU.
    Ha ha! Not biting! But if you would like to ride some time, let me know. I will tear your legs off AND buy the post ride burritos!
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem
    Ha ha! Not biting! But if you would like to ride some time, let me know. I will tear your legs off AND buy the post ride burritos!
    ok.
    when/where?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem
    Ha ha! Not biting!
    Oh, the ironing.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  43. #43
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    who needs helmets


  44. #44
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    Man, there's all kinds of WIN in that video...

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Man, there's all kinds of WIN in that video...

    There's all kinds of "Holy *****" in that video.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

  46. #46
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    That video was great! Sure, the crashes made me flinch, but some of those riders did very good shoulder rolls. Good education for how to crash properly. There were a couple of hollow thumps when cranium met concrete, probably not good. This begs the question: if you already have drain bamage, are you immune?

    As for myself, I have had my own bike try to break my nose too many times. I wear a full face on every ride. I aspire to be a head in a jar on Futurama!

    gerG
    ...uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill uphill uphill uphill DOWNHILL! uphill ...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpy29er
    There's all kinds of "Holy *****" in that video.
    More like all kinds of crunched nuts in that video!
    Some good smackdowns too!

  48. #48
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    If I spent all my time chasing after people doing things on bikes that I don't agree with, I wouldn't get any riding done! I ride without a helmet, commuting and on solo rides. On group rides, I wear one, so I don't get preached at by the helmet cops! Last year, I broke my ankle commuting on clipless pedals, now I ride BMX flats. I laughed when the paramedic asked if I had been wearing a helmet! Wearing a helmet doesn't protect you from everything that can happen out there. I saw a story on TV about a guy who broke every bone in his face and got his nose torn off, after getting his front wheel stuck in a sewer grate. Was he supposed to wear a full face motorcycle helmet and football pads on his ten speed, just riding down the street? When is enough, enough?

  49. #49
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    I'll be honest, I'm one of those terrible people who doesn't wear a helmet sometimes. If I'm riding somo or any real trails like that where there is even a slight chance I'll wreck I do wear one. When I'm riding my local (Papago park) where I'm riding canal paths and tame dirt paths, I don't. That must make me a noob. Actually though when I first started riding there I wore a helmet, but only because I thought people would look at me funny if I didn't. Then, I realized I don't care if they do and that I don't actually like wearing a helmet and stopped. That being said, I still wear one everywhere else.

  50. #50
    Meatbomb
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    I'm wearing my helmet right now.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonebone2000
    I'll be honest, I'm one of those terrible people who doesn't wear a helmet sometimes. If I'm riding somo or any real trails like that where there is even a slight chance I'll wreck I do wear one. When I'm riding my local (Papago park) where I'm riding canal paths and tame dirt paths, I don't. That must make me a noob. Actually though when I first started riding there I wore a helmet, but only because I thought people would look at me funny if I didn't. Then, I realized I don't care if they do and that I don't actually like wearing a helmet and stopped. That being said, I still wear one everywhere else.
    I always wear one. Wednesday the 30th of March, I was on Sunrise trail at Westwing before work. I ride it often, no real treachery or challenges. I was just above the school, still on the "easy" stuff and my world fell out from underneath me. I hit the ground like a thousand of brick. I rose to my bloody knee's, after getting my air back, took three deep breaths to check for ribs. They felt OK. Next rotate right shoulder to check for missing or broken parts, painful but didn't feel like a separation or broken collarbone. Tried to remount and continue on, couldn't climb, to much shoulder pain. Couldn't descend either.

    Had to walk back to flat ground, passed a hiker that asked me if I was ok, asked about my bloody nose? Hmmmmm. My nose never hit the ground, I removed my helmet and inspected it. A two week old S-Works helmet. TRASHED....

    My helmet absolutely saved me from a severe injury.

    Steve

  52. #52
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    I gotta say my worst OTB crash was at about 3 mph, full head impact on a spiky rock. One of those slow motion see it coming impacts. Thanks to the helmet, no blunt force trauma, no concussion, not even a headache and I was able to finish my ride. Crashes happen at any speed and at any time. You can minimize the damge with brain bucket. I say if you want to tempt fate, have at it, I just don't want you to ruin my ride/day if I got to stop and help you after your crash and split open your melon.

  53. #53
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    Mountain biking w/o a helmet is just dumb. I used to do it once in awhile because it did feel nice to have the wind in my hair. I had a wreck a couple years ago on trail 100 where I hit my head on a rock sticking out of the trail. Thankfully I was wearing a helmet because it had a nice dent in it close to where my temple would be. I have not ridden without a helmet since and never would again.
    Helmets are replaceable...heads not so much.

  54. #54
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    I always ride with a helmet! In fact, this past Saturday I was riding some trails in SW Washington state and having never ridden in muddy conditions before, I was having some issues at first but I was fine after about 30 minutes of riding. About 3 hours later we were all on the way back to the trailhead and my front tire got shoved sideways by a large tree root unexpectedly. It caused me to ride right into a deep ditch and I slammed my head into the tree that was sticking out of it. I didn't feel like I hit the tree that hard but when I checked out my helmet, it have a huge crack running up the side. That hit would have easily been deadly at the force I hit it with.

    It's funny because the first thing I noticed about falling up there is that it doesn't hurt to land on that soft ground but you still need a helmet for those unpredictable moments. And all of this happened on a relatively flat and easy section (doesn't it always?). I will ALWAYS wear a helmet in AZ because there are just way too many sharp rocks everywhere. All is takes is a well placed fall to kill you or severely injure you. I think that alone is enough to warrant the minor inconvenience of a helmet.

  55. #55
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    I was on Trail 305 in Prescott, Az. yesterday and came across 3 people on Wallyworld specials not wearing helmets, one of them was complaining that his breaks did not work properly and one could not get his bike to shift gears. I passed them twice coming and going, both times they were tinkering with there bikes so i dont know how much rideing they actually did without helmets.

  56. #56
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    People are going to do what they want to do. Concerning yourself with the issue is just introducing stress into your life.

    [for the record, I always ride with helmets. Bikes, motorcycles, anything.]
    2008 Specialized Rockhopper -- STOLEN! *cry*
    09 Stout SE(Its like your sister, cheap and fun)

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