Hawes Trail system- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 90 of 90
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35

    Hawes Trail system

    Thanks everyone who has expressed an interest in helping to maintain the Hawes Trail system. Its one of my favorite places to ride, and the Forest Service would like to see it continue to be a favorite for all to enjoy!

    I have been involved with trail friends groups in the past, but this will be the first time I have helped start one. So your suggestions/input would be much appreciated.

    As I stated on the other Hawes Trail thread, I am meeting with IMBA in a few weeks to get some ideas/help. I have also had positive feedback from MBAA. I'm pretty stoked that we can be successful!

    If you see me out on the trail, please say hello. I'm the old guy with a pony tail, riding a 29'er hardtail.

    Gary Hanna, District Ranger
    Mesa Ranger District - Tonto National Forest

  2. #2
    Ridin bikes is fun
    Reputation: surfndav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    784
    I'll keep an eye out for you on the trail. I live very near and ride as much as I can, with work and honey dew stuff that's a lot less the I wish. With that said, I would like to help out any time I have the time. I'll keep watching here.
    Better than most, not as good as some.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: patrickhall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    268
    Gary, are there any plans to expand the current system? Either way, I'd love to be a part of this. Thanks for getting this organized!

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    Patrick. There are currently no plans to expand the current system.

    With that said, if we are successful at maintaining the system we have; an expansion in the future may be possible. Any future expansion would first need to have a good plan, and then the plan would need to be evaluated through the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). This is not a fast process, but is meant to protect YOUR public lands for future generations of use.

    I spent last summer working in Colorado. While there, I had the pleasure of riding a brand new trail system, constructed on Bureau of Land Management (BLM) lands near Del Norte, Colorado. The trail plan DID work its way through the NEPA process, and was built with HELP from the BLM and volunteers. It was built in a sustainable manner, per IMBA trail construction techniques, avoided archeological sites, and most of all was LOTS OF FUN TO RIDE!

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ECEGatorTuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    817

    Hawes Trail system

    Thanks for starting this Gary! I would love to help. Can you make the meeting with IMBA a public thing so maybe we can have a small group to gather input and ideas?

    As for new trails, there is a lot of potential out there but as you said, the NEPA process is agonizingly slow. It would still be prudent to at least get some ideas flowing so that we can at least get the ball rolling sooner than later. The wonderful thing about Hawes is that most of the trails are actually built fairly well and has been pretty sustainable. It just needs some TLC to fix the few poorly routed spots and also the damage from the insane late monsoon storms we had this year. It shouldn't take much effort to get it up to par again and maintenance should be fairly straightforward.

    Look forward to working with you!
    Shit happens...

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    160
    Keep us posted. I would like to help.

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    189
    Me as well. I'd love to help

  8. #8
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,480

    Hawes Trail system

    I live in Las Sendas, and ride there often. I'd like to participate in meetings and trail work. Keep us posted.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  9. #9
    DFL>DNF>DNS
    Reputation: schillingsworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    3,083
    Count me in, I consider it one of 3 backyard trail systems for me and will help in any way I can.
    My Two Schillingsworth


    Ultra Endurance Posters & More: Posters/T-shirts & Stuff

  10. #10
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    34
    Gary:

    I rode Hawes a week ago and believe a lot of eroded trail sections would benefit from outsloping and water diverters. I personally believe the whole trail system could be made a lot more sustainable with a major volunteer effort.

    While riding the current trail system I couldn't help but think how the major users of those trails love the technical nature of the system due to all the wonderful eroded sections that up the challenge factor significantly. Have you given any thought as to how to address the negative feedback you will be getting from those users who won't be happy about efforts to reduce the challenge aspect of the current system?

    Will it be possible to become a future official volunteer that could do maintenance work on the trail after giving a call to you personally or some other district ranger? It has been my experience that while riding various trails I note an incision developing on a steep section of trail that could be made more sustainable with some outsloping or addition of a water diverter or installation of a user friendly water bar. Many times the maintenance could be done during the ride which would correct the erosion issue immediately rather than waiting for a future work project.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SSdirt29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    588
    Quote Originally Posted by 50cents View Post
    Gary:

    I rode Hawes a week ago and believe a lot of eroded trail sections would benefit from outsloping and water diverters. I personally believe the whole trail system could be made a lot more sustainable with a major volunteer effort.

    While riding the current trail system I couldn't help but think how the major users of those trails love the technical nature of the system due to all the wonderful eroded sections that up the challenge factor significantly. Have you given any thought as to how to address the negative feedback you will be getting from those users who won't be happy about efforts to reduce the challenge aspect of the current system?

    Will it be possible to become a future official volunteer that could do maintenance work on the trail after giving a call to you personally or some other district ranger? It has been my experience that while riding various trails I note an incision developing on a steep section of trail that could be made more sustainable with some outsloping or addition of a water diverter or installation of a user friendly water bar. Many times the maintenance could be done during the ride which would correct the erosion issue immediately rather than waiting for a future work project.
    Traildoc ?

  12. #12
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SSdirt29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    588
    oops duplicate post

  13. #13
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,480

    Hawes Trail system

    Quote Originally Posted by SSdirt29 View Post
    Traildoc ?
    LOL...I wasn't halfway through the post, without seeing yours, and thought the exact same thing...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SSdirt29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    588
    it puts the lotion on it's back and returns to the forums annually as the temps get cold in Sedrama or it gets the hose.

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cstem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,851
    Forest Ranger, meet Traildoc (50cents is now his fourth incarnation). Don't get too attached to him as the ban hammer will once again come forth and cleanse the forum of his inane BS.
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SSdirt29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    588
    He'll be better this time. Rudolph and his little misfit buddy the dentist had his teeth pulled.

  17. #17
    Just another half mile...
    Reputation: Epicrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,064
    50cents does have a valid point. A lot of the Hawes trails are a rutted out and need a lot of work. Fix what is there so that they are more sustainable before any new trails are built. I used to ride out there all the time, but not worth the drive any more. So many other great places to ride n the valley now. IMO not really a destination trail system anymore. Great for backyard trails for folks who like to ride rutted out trails.

    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    Forest Ranger, meet Traildoc (50cents is now his fourth incarnation). Don't get too attached to him as the ban hammer will once again come forth and cleanse the forum of his inane BS.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cstem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,851
    Epic- I can't comment on the trails out at Hawes since I have not been there since before the rains. But, in defense of rough trail, we have so much nice, buff trail that a few should be rougher. Sometimes I like beat up trail and sometimes I like buff. Sometimes I like technical and others swoopy and fast. That is the very best thing about what we all have here in AZ, is a great variety for everyone to have a little slice.
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  19. #19
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,237
    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    Epic- I can't comment on the trails out at Hawes since I have not been there since before the rains. But, in defense of rough trail, we have so much nice, buff trail that a few should be rougher. Sometimes I like beat up trail and sometimes I like buff. Sometimes I like technical and others swoopy and fast. That is the very best thing about what we all have here in AZ, is a great variety for everyone to have a little slice.
    I would lean toward agreeing with EpicRider. I was out there in early fall, and it just wasnt as much fun when you were constantly fighting slipping into a rut. IMO, that's not technical as much as just an eroded trail. If i lived there i'd obviously feel differently, but it does take the shine off a long drive.
    YES to Scottsdale Prop 420
    Our Preserve, Our Taxes, Our Vote

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation: SSdirt29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    588
    I was out there a few days ago. It seemed fun to me. If people dont see it as a destination thats great for those of us who are local. Fewer the better.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    All,

    Thanks again for your interest in the Hawes Trail system!
    I will try to answer the questions you submitted above:

    Q1) Can we make the IMBA trail meeting public?
    A1) The meeting I currently have scheduled with IMBA is a lunch in between meetings, so I don't believe I can make this meeting public. The trail system is YOUR trail system, and its my plan to hear YOUR ideas on how we can sustain this system for the future. I'm sure IMBA will help us. I'll let them know, a public meeting has been brought up in this forum, and keep you posted.

    Q2) The trail should not be all buff, rough sections are good. Some areas are rutted out, and need fixed now, because they are eroding?
    A2) I'm glad we are having a dialogue regarding the trail. Again, I want your input on what the trail system should be. My personal opinion, is that buff and rough sections are good. Like a ski area, different slopes for different folks (so all can enjoy). Trails that are eroding, require repair. What do you all think?

    Q3) Can I volunteer now as an individual volunteer, and make repairs to existing trails as needed?
    A3) The short answer is yes, and I was hoping there would be some interest to do this. The long answer is we have a volunteer program / protocol you would need to agree to. I would like to get a meeting scheduled right after the first of the year, so we can make plans for maintenance. The meeting would need to be on a weekend or evening? What day of the week? Lets get something scheduled now.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us

  22. #22
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,480

    Hawes Trail system

    It's now my backyard trail system, and I WAY prefer it over the rocky McDowell's, which were my backyard trails for years. It's nice not to cut a tire every few rides.

    The sections that are most rutted are trails I don't typically ride, and include:
    - Backside of Mine
    - The "Switchbacks"
    - South part of Secret, where it drops into the wash
    - The "Mudflaps" section of Hawes, which you can now take the nice Bypass around
    - Some parts of Twisted Sister have been trashed
    - I guess I'd also add part of the traverse above Diamond Point, and below the towers.

    I get plenty of fun - and miles - by working around those, and including TRW. I've been riding Hawes for 9-10 years, and overall, it is definitely more difficult and technical, in its own right, then it ever used to be.

    I would love to see the aforementioned sections cleaned up and made sustainable.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: patrickhall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    268
    My 2 cents: leave the rocky, technical sections alone and focus on fixing/preventing soil erosion or trimming cat claw/annoying vegetation. I would hate to see any of my favorite trails "sanitized" simply for the sake of making them easier to ride.

  24. #24
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    34
    This will be an interesting project. Most chunky technical sections of Hawes are eroding sections that any qualified hydrologist would lose sleep over. That being said maybe one could pretend that they are sustainable challenging eroding sections that should be left alone because they are fun to ride.

    I personally like to see efforts made to divert fast moving water off the trail to reduce future erosion potential. There are numerous spots on Hawes that could be made more sustainable without too much effort.

    When I rode the trail system I couldn't help but think this trail system has a huge amount of differed maintenance. I don't have a clue who built all those trail segments, but IMHO they surely didn't do a good job of trail routing in that type of soil condition. It would be very expensive to re-route those challenging eroded sections, so try and divert rain water where possible and hope the land manager will keep those sections open for the highly skilled riders to ride.

    One can always use the fact that the natural erosion that takes place in the surrounding area of Hawes is far greater than that which occurs on the trails. The problem is many people think natural erosion is OK because it is NATURAL and that the man made erosion occurring on the Hawes trails is BAD.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    189
    For me the switchbacks are fine minus a couple ruts that we could throw some rocks in but I'm not one for trail sanitizing. I like the roughness of hawes and it just makes it more fun. If you want easy stuff then stick to ridge and TRW. What I would like to see is the 1 or 2 big ruts on mine trail filled but leave the rock drops and the rock garden up on the top. They are too fun. More trails is always good too

  26. #26
    Addicted to 2 wheels
    Reputation: SugarHigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    961
    Great debate. You wonder why these things take time.

    In my eyes, since the soli at Hawes is so fragile, it gets damaged easy, then burns back in pretty quick. It was rough in the fall, and now pretty smooth and fast again.

    I completely agree with managing the water flow, fixing ruts that will just get bigger, and making the whole system sustainable. All in all, I think the Hawes builders did a pretty good job. Lots of flow out there.

    New trail is a dream and always on the wish list, but could take 10 years or more. We also have a lot out there already, especially if you tie into Usery.

    Gary, What can you find out about the Sonora Trail Project? It adds trail by Wild Horse/NRA, and stuff East of Southern Usery. How can this group help expedite that project that has been baking for years?

    Group meeting with a ride sounds great.

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation: cstem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,851
    Gary- like I mentioned, I have not been there in a while so do not take any of my trail reports/comments on Hawes to heart. But I do agree with Sugarhigh, (and I understand as I used to ride Hawes often in the late 90's early 2's) that most of Hawes repairs/recovers pretty well after some riding in. Many of the original trails were burned in with motos and jeeps in the 70's and those trails are still there in some form- a true testament to how tough the landscape is there. It is much like Trail 100 in that way. We also got destroyed by rain this year, and aside from a few giant trenches, most of the "trail work" was done by feet and tires. One thing I have noticed over the years is trails like Hawes that are long standing have evolved due to smaller storms causing to ride out of/away from normal rainfall drainage routes, but this last storm was a game changer and I do believe those that say some spots out there might need some help. Just not "too much" help.
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  28. #28
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    34
    I think it would be a great idea to take some pictures and video of before and after fixes on the Hawes system. That way the viewers can get an idea as to what the land manger considers a spot that needs some maintenance and how it was fixed to what some consider to a sustainable condition.

    I personally have never worked on decomposed granite (I think that is what most of Hawes trails are built on) trails and its seems like it would be pretty difficult to get much binding of the new soil on top of the existing tread. Does the steep rutted eroded trail tread sections at Hawes lend themselves to being repaired by filling them with the soil and and rocks near the trail sections in need of maintenance?

    I think a good training video could be made of repairing steep eroded sections of decomposed granite trail, if that is at all possible. When I did a Google search on fixing dg trails this is what I came up with ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amp1sRiAh84 ).

  29. #29
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
    Reputation: longhairmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,588
    the thing about this storm, is that the water in some areas washed out the medium supporting rocks that held many of the stepped areas together. once they were gone, it was high speed aqua anarchy for everything below.
    what about digging little trenches across the trail in those problem spots and dropping 2x4s underneath the surface. then even if the water is enough to move those rocks, the wood will hold.
    if you have been to lost Dutchman park, they have railroad ties embedded across the trails (they are not completely under the surface, as their above ground angle also serves to direct flowing water off to the side)
    it would be similar to the plastic mudflaps currently in place, but a lot stronger.

  30. #30
    Victim of Saddle Rage
    Reputation: cannonballtrail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    622
    Hawes is one of those quintessential Phoenix area rides and was a personal fav back in the early and mid 2000's. Maybe it has since been fixed up a bit, but as of October the trails were pretty beat-up after the rains. It seems like the past couple of years, the fall erosion is getting worse with just quick fixes but no real steps towards long term solutions and sustainability. My other concern, perhaps fuelled by nostalgia, is over compensating by changing the trails too much and loosing that classic feel that's made Hawes so great for all these years. Fix the ruts and improve the drainage on the existing trails without sanitizing and re-routing and then build some new stuff to mix the old and the new to keep everyone happy.
    " the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." C&H

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AZ_AlanS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    556
    < The long answer is we have a volunteer program / protocol you would need to agree to. I would like to get a meeting scheduled right after the first of the year, so we can make plans for maintenance. The meeting would need to be on a weekend or evening? What day of the week? Lets get something scheduled now. >

    Gary, The winter months in the Phoenix area are typically crammed with races, events and trail work. The first available weekend dates that I have on my calendar between MBAA races, MBAA trail work events, 24 HOP ect. are Saturday January 3, 2015 and Saturday February 7, 2015. Personally I would avoid the major events/races such as the OP, set a date and go for it. MBAA is willing to help out in any way we can.

  32. #32
    livin' the dream......
    Reputation: tjkm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,850
    Hawes is a great trail system, and I regret that a few years have gone by with out my tires hitting the dirt there. I am very encouraged by the FS engaging this board and looking for grass roots support and input.

    Be patient with the process, I think good things will come from it. I am open for jumping in on any big volunteer trail work events.
    Less f*cks to give every passing day, use them well. - geraldooka

  33. #33
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,297
    All I have to say is....leave the Tequila alone. Good Day!




  34. #34
    How much further ???
    Reputation: Douger-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,371
    Agreed I was out there yesterday and it was horrible. Practically unrideable. I'm not sure anyone should waste their time at Hawes anymore.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  35. #35
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    5,480

    Hawes Trail system

    Quote Originally Posted by Douger-1 View Post
    Agreed I was out there yesterday and it was horrible. Practically unrideable. I'm not sure anyone should waste their time at Hawes anymore.
    ^^This...definitely not worth the drive; plenty of other options.


    Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    84
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    ^^This...definitely not worth the drive; plenty of other options.


    Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
    X3! Best thing to do is leave it the fawk alone and encourage riding elsewhere!

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: patrickhall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    268
    I definitely won't be going back to Hawes until tomorrow.

  38. #38
    banned
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    34
    Went out there today and cleaned all the climbs and drops. Looks like someone went out during the week and did a lot of work making it really fun to ride.

  39. #39
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,297
    Quote Originally Posted by 50cents View Post
    Went out there today and cleaned all the climbs and drops. Looks like someone went out during the week and did a lot of work making it really fun to ride.
    That's because if you can't clean Hawes......you've yet to move yourself beyond an Advanced beginner rider....congrats!!! Proof that Hawes does not need improvement.




  40. #40
    Addicted to 2 wheels
    Reputation: SugarHigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    961
    Quote Originally Posted by 50cents View Post
    Went out there today and cleaned all the climbs and drops. Looks like someone went out during the week and did a lot of work making it really fun to ride.


    Nothing was done there recently. Maybe one water bar got thrown in. All the work was done by mother nature. The trails have moisture in them. The place is fast with great traction right now.

  41. #41
    How much further ???
    Reputation: Douger-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,371
    Quote Originally Posted by SugarHigh View Post


    Nothing was done there recently. Maybe one water bar got thrown in. All the work was done by mother nature. The trails have moisture in them. The place is fast with great traction right now.
    Sssshhhhhhhh It sucks remember!!! Not as good as in the past. Not worth the drive. Come on Shawn work with me here.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  42. #42
    Addicted to 2 wheels
    Reputation: SugarHigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    961
    Opps, I was thinking of Papago. My bad. Hawes totally sucks.

  43. #43
    Ouch, I am hot!
    Reputation: Dirdir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,764
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    ^^This...definitely not worth the drive; plenty of other options.


    Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
    Oligarchical behavior?
    I AM JUST A JERK

  44. #44
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    I've been offline for a few days, cause I just got home from a backpacking adventure in the Superstition Wilderness. I had a GREAT time, in part because I had no access to email / internet / cell. I will be taking more vacations like this very soon.

    Back to the Hawes Trail system. Thanks for all your responses. It appears that most of you agree, trails that are eroding (and becoming rutted) require fixing. Trails that are technical, just because they are, should remain that way.

    I propose we meet and ride! As we're riding, flag areas that we agree need work. Then meet again, with a PLAN to work.

    Meet and ride: Saturday, December 27th - 9:00 a.m.
    Trail Work Day: Saturday, January 3rd - 9:00 a.m.
    Trail Work Day: Saturday, February 7th - 9:00 a.m.

    Location: Meet at trailhead on Bush Highway, just North of Central Arizona Project canal bridge.

    In case of rain / freezing temperatures, "Meet and Ride" will be rescheduled. I will post in this forum before 8:00 a.m. if cancelled.

    As far as the Sonoran Trail system goes, let me ask my staff where we are on this project. The staff I need to talk to is on vacation for the holidays, so it will be after the 1st of the year before I can get an answer for you.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation: rockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    6,817
    Quote Originally Posted by 50cents View Post
    Went out there today and cleaned all the climbs and drops. Looks like someone went out during the week and did a lot of work making it really fun to ride.
    Sounds like the Night Ranger is back on his game.

  46. #46
    Ridin bikes is fun
    Reputation: surfndav's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    784
    I don't work every Saturday, but I do work on the 27th. I will check my schedule, and if I'm not working I will be there for the work days. Thanks for taking the lead on this.
    Better than most, not as good as some.

  47. #47
    Addicted to 2 wheels
    Reputation: SugarHigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    961
    See you on the 27th @ 9. Curious what the group will want to work on. Unfortunately, I am booked both work days.

  48. #48
    DFL>DNF>DNS
    Reputation: schillingsworth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    3,083
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Ranger View Post
    As far as the Sonoran Trail system goes, let me ask my staff where we are on this project. The staff I need to talk to is on vacation for the holidays, so it will be after the 1st of the year before I can get an answer for you.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us
    Gary,
    I'm very interested to hear more about the Sonoran Trail system. Last time I was out to the Meridian rd trailhead (A9 on the linked map) I was checking out the trail that dead-ends about a mile to the east. It had good routing, except for one short fall-line section that was eroding. I did some 'splorin afterwards farther east and found a trail near the Goldfield trailhead (A6 on the map) running west. It was lightly used and appeared to be an equestrian route for the most part. The two trails almost meet each other, maybe 3/4 mile is needed to link them up providing a nice singletrack route from the SE corner of the Pass Mtn. trall over to the Goldfield Mtns. This short connector is really all that remains to create a mostly singletrack, but all dirt, route from Hawes to Gold Canyon & beyond.

    The segment I'm referring to is between A7.5 & A7 (linking to the parking area at A6) on this map:
    http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_...ev3_018625.pdf

    I believe the trail from A8 to A7.5 is the current dead-end.
    My Two Schillingsworth


    Ultra Endurance Posters & More: Posters/T-shirts & Stuff

  49. #49
    How much further ???
    Reputation: Douger-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,371
    Shawn I cant make the meet and ride and the first work day but I can make the second. At least between the two of us we can make 2 out of the 3.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: ECEGatorTuro's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    817
    I can't make the meet/greet or first work day either. Family will be in town for the holidays.
    Shit happens...

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    Thanks everyone for your responses. I realize its the holidays and everyone's schedule is already filled. No worries!

    Come when you can, and will get to know each other, and figure out how we can get the trail work done together.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AZ_AlanS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    556
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Ranger View Post
    Location: Meet at trailhead on Bush Highway, just North of Central Arizona Project canal bridge.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us
    Gary, What is the current status of the trailhead parking that you mention? This lot used to be well known as a smash and grab lot. I typically park behind the Walgreens at Thomas and Power.

  53. #53
    How much further ???
    Reputation: Douger-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,371
    What is the current status of your driveway for smash and grab? Not trying to be a jerk but I dont know how anyone can answer that question. I've honestly never had an issue and never known anyone personally having one. I dont even recall any broken glass on the ground out there. I'm not saying it hasnt/doesnt happen but Id say you are no more at risk there than anywhere. To be fair Ive also heard about a smash and grab issue behind the Walgreens.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AZ_AlanS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    556
    Quote Originally Posted by Douger-1 View Post
    What is the current status of your driveway for smash and grab? Not trying to be a jerk but I dont know how anyone can answer that question. I've honestly never had an issue and never known anyone personally having one. I dont even recall any broken glass on the ground out there. I'm not saying it hasnt/doesnt happen but Id say you are no more at risk there than anywhere. To be fair Ive also heard about a smash and grab issue behind the Walgreens.
    The current status of my driveway is no vehicles have ever been broken into in the driveway at my house, or in the street in front of my house. You stated you don't know how someone could answer that question then proceeded to answer that question?? WTF, it was a simple question from someone who does not ride there regularly and has never parked in that lot. I have heard reports/rumors that cars have been broken into there in the past and was asking for feedback from the locals. I have no personal experience with break ins at that lot.

  55. #55
    How much further ???
    Reputation: Douger-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,371
    So I answered your question of the current status by saying that I personally have never had an issue? If that answered your question then great.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation: AZ_AlanS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    556
    Quote Originally Posted by Douger-1 View Post
    So I answered your question of the current status by saying that I personally have never had an issue? If that answered your question then great.
    You answered my question when you stated "Not trying to be a jerk but"

    Now that we have left the playground, looking forward to getting some trail work done out at Hawes. Thanks for getting this organized Gary.

  57. #57
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,338
    What was the question?

  58. #58
    How much further ???
    Reputation: Douger-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,371
    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    What was the question?
    Are 26er's really dead or something like that I think.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    189
    I should be there for the meet up and the second work day. Crashed on saddle yesterday at the ROK garden right before the switchbacks. That area is pretty torn up but such a fun technical spot

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    CHANGE IN TIME
    - for Meet and Ride to 10:30 a.m. (was scheduled for 9:00 a.m.).
    this Saturday morning, December 27th.

    This is due to predicted overnight freezing temperatures. I have delayed the meet 1-1/2 hours in hopes that we will have mid-40's temperatures by then. Hope this isn't a problem for those of you who were planning on attending.

    Let's still plan on meeting at the Trailhead parking area, just North of the Central Arizona Project canal bridge along Bush Highway.

    As far as the discussion on the security of this trailhead parking lot, I have heard the same thing that it is a "smash and grab" parking lot. However since arriving on the Mesa Ranger District three years ago, none of the Law Enforcement Officers for the District have ever reported to me an instance of this happening. I am meeting with the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office in two weeks on another matter, and will ask them what they know about this parking lot and report back to you.

    I hope to have a fun ride Saturday morning with all of you that can attend. In addition to getting to know one another, I would like to stop at places along the trail that require maintenance to help formulate a plan for the Trail Work Day scheduled on Saturday, January 3rd. I'm thinking we will ride for approximately 2 hours, including the stops along the trail to discuss maintenance.

    Thank you again for your interest in helping to maintain the trail!

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nomadllc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    137
    What kind of ride will this be? My GF and I are planning on riding Hawes tomorrow and would be interested in tagging along.

  62. #62
    Addicted to 2 wheels
    Reputation: SugarHigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    961
    I will meet you there at 10:30 ready to pedal. Will peal off pretty quick though. I have to be back home by 11:30.

    I will be leaving my house around 9. PM for address if you the earlier leave works better or you.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomadllc View Post
    What kind of ride will this be? My GF and I are planning on riding Hawes tomorrow and would be interested in tagging along.
    We will be riding the trails, and stopping looking at areas that require maintenance.

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by SugarHigh View Post
    I will meet you there at 10:30 ready to pedal. Will peal off pretty quick though. I have to be back home by 11:30.

    I will be leaving my house around 9. PM for address if you the earlier leave works better or you.
    That's fine. We will get a chance to meet and exchange ideas on what is needed. Thanks for coming.

    When I lived in Colorado, I wouldn't ride unless it was above 50 degrees. Once I moved to Arizona for the second time (in 2008), I change the rule to: I wouldn't ride unless it was above 60 degrees. So tomorrow will be a rule breaker for me. Looking forward to it, I think?

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    158
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Ranger View Post
    That's fine. We will get a chance to meet and exchange ideas on what is needed. Thanks for coming.

    When I lived in Colorado, I wouldn't ride unless it was above 50 degrees. Once I moved to Arizona for the second time (in 2008), I change the rule to: I wouldn't ride unless it was above 60 degrees. So tomorrow will be a rule breaker for me. Looking forward to it, I think?
    I will be there. It will be brisk for AZ

    Dan

  66. #66
    Addicted to 2 wheels
    Reputation: SugarHigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    961
    Ranger Gary is a good guy. There were about 6 of us that showed up. The general consensus was minimizing future erosion, not sanitizing. Old ROMPer/Dan had a lot of good ideas, from working with the boy scouts out there. I am pretty excited about the first meeting.

  67. #67
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    158
    Fun getting to meet some more Hawes groupies It is great to have a good guy at the Forest Service supporting the maintenance of the trails and Mountain Bikers on the Tonto

  68. #68
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Nomadllc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    137
    Nice to meet some of you out there, and whish I could have ridden more of the tail system! I crashed coming down from the towers on the upper part of Hawes and needed to get off the mountain. On the way down we hit part of Saguaro then to Ridge. Great system out there! And I'm glad you guys care enough about it to meet about trail repair and maintenance.

  69. #69
    mtbr member
    Reputation: patrickhall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    268
    I had to babysit this morning so my wife could attend her uncle's funeral. I'll shoot for the maintenance days, (might bring my 13-year old boys along too). Any tools I should bring with me?

  70. #70
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    WOW, great turnout for the meet and ride! I'm pretty stoked about all the enthusiasm everyone has about keeping the Hawes Trail system a great place to ride!

    Next event is a trail workday on Saturday, January 3rd. Meet at 9:00 a.m. Meet-up place to be determined. I will post details here no later than Friday.

    The plan is to work on the trail where it is eroding, and keep the technical areas technical.

    Again, thank you for all your help!

    Gary Hanna
    ghanna@fs.fed.us

  71. #71
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by patrickhall View Post
    I had to babysit this morning so my wife could attend her uncle's funeral. I'll shoot for the maintenance days, (might bring my 13-year old boys along too). Any tools I should bring with me?
    Hey Patrick,

    Sorry about your wife's uncle. Glad to hear you are planning to make the work day this Saturday. Bringing your boy's is definitely a plus. I remember working with my son on the trails when he was that age.

    I am going to try and pack some tools in prior to the 9:00 a.m. meetup, so that everyone can ride their bike to the work site safely. Cause it is so far to walk to the trail sections that need work.

    Tools are good, if you wish to walk in and meet us. Not sure if I can get enough tools packed in, if there is a big showing. Likely start work closest to where we meetup, and work our way further into the trail system.

    I am going to talk to Walgreens, and/or the office complex behind Walgreens and see if we can meet there. The parking lot at the Trailhead along Bush Highway was overflowing full this afternoon, so I don't think that will work.

    Look forward to meeting you and your boys. Thank you for your offer of help.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us

    T

  72. #72
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    Happy New Year!

    Conditions should be perfect for the trail work day at Hawes this Saturday morning, January 3rd, at 9:00 a.m. Let's meet behind Walgreens (Thomas and Power roads). It will be a little chilly at first, but the weather forecast is for Sunny skies (so should warm up quick).

    Bring water, snacks, and gloves. Tools will be provided, and will magically appear at the work site Saturday morning. The plan is to ride our bikes from Walgreens along the Fence Line trail to the work area. Planned work area is on the Hawes trail, west of the intersection with Saddle trail. If time permits, work will continue northerly along the Saddle Trail.

    I think we will call it a day around 1:00 p.m. (if you need to leave earlier, or come later, please do so).

    Thanks again for your support of the Hawes Trail system.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us

  73. #73
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    6,338
    Gary, thanks for your interest in our trail systems!!!

  74. #74
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    54
    Thanks Gary,
    See you saturday!

  75. #75
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    I rode out at Hawes today (Friday), and there is moisture in the soil which will help us with our trail maintenance. See all you at this Saturday morning, January 3rd, at 9:00 a.m. Let's meet behind Walgreens (Thomas and Power roads). It will be a little chilly at first, but the weather forecast is for Sunny skies (so should warm up quick).

    Bring water, snacks, and gloves. Tools will be provided, and will magically appear at the work site Saturday morning. The plan is to ride our bikes from Walgreens along the Fence Line trail to the work area. Planned work area is on the Hawes trail, west of the intersection with Saddle trail. If time permits, work will continue northerly along the Saddle Trail.

    I think we will call it a day around 1:00 p.m. (if you need to leave earlier, or come later, please do so).

  76. #76
    mtbr member
    Reputation: patrickhall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    268
    Gary, I apologize, but didn't realize maintenance day was tomorrow and already committed to attend the Hawes Beerduro. Was there going to be another maintenance day?

  77. #77
    mtbr member
    Reputation: tomfish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    147
    whoever cleaned up the lower half of the mine DH did a nice job, thanks! Also saw a lot of work done on the part before cardiac. nice job.

  78. #78
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8
    Thanks Gary for putting the trail day together. Nice to learn how to work the trail to prevent future erosion.

    With three we got the Hawes Trail leading up to climb worked out. Next time the harder work will start so hope more will show up!

  79. #79
    Addicted to 2 wheels
    Reputation: SugarHigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    961
    Rode past your efforts. Great work and thank you! Not only wil the trail last longer, but it adds some more fun to the line.

    I wish I could have made it. Hopefully the work day after 2/7 will work for the schedule.

  80. #80
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35

    Next trail work day is Saturday, February 7th

    Thanks for the help this past Saturday to maintain the Hawes trail system. It was a small but enthusiastic group (all three of us). We did accomplish a lot of work, constructing elongated water bars to keep the trail from eroding any further. We'll see how they hold up over time.

    The next trail work day is scheduled for Saturday, February 7th - 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. We'll meet behind Walgreens again (Thomas & Power roads), and plan on riding out to the trail work area. The tools will be awaiting us at the work area.

    I'll try harder to get the word out, and see if we can't get a larger group. I'm hoping for 10 +/-. RSVP here if you think you can make it.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Hawes Trail system-20150103a-hawes.jpg  


  81. #81
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35

    Singletrack is Sustainable

    Quote Originally Posted by 50cents View Post
    It would be nice if some pictures could be taken of the work being done on Hawes to tomorrow to see the different types of techniques used to make a decomposed granite trail more sustainable.
    I failed to get some good photos of the trail work, other than the enthusiastic trail crew!

    IMBA puts out good material about constructing and maintaining a sustainable trail system. With the decomposed granite and the lack of moisture, it is obviously a challenge.

    Here is a link to IMBA's: Rolling singletrack is sustainable and fun to ride. The hardcopy has graphics, which really helped me understand the rules. I will see about getting some copies for our volunteers.
    https://www.imba.com/resources/trail...ainable-trails

    With the granite soils, it is most important to construct the trails in a sustainable manner. I am concerned about the most recent trail construction paralleling Hawes Trail, and how sustainable it is?

  82. #82
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35

    Unauthorized Trail Construction

    I appreciate your support in maintaining the Hawes Trail system. However, please don't construct or maintain unauthorized trails. Below are the official regulations:

    Title 36, Code of Federal Regulations, 261 Subpart A:

    261.10(a) Construction, placing, or maintaining any kind of road, trail, structure, fence, enclosure, communication equipment, significant surface disturbance, or other improvement on National Forest System lands or facilities without a special-use authorization, contract, or approved operating plan when such authorization is required.

    1st offense: $250 fine + $25 fee = $275 total

    Again, I appreciate your continued support of the Hawes Trail system. I hope to see you Saturday, February 7th for the next trail work day.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us

  83. #83
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    35
    Hey everyone! Glad I found this forum, and thanks to everyone's hard work! I really wish I had the time to invest in helping you guys maintain those trails, its perhaps my favorite place to ride!

    Just curious, Ill be out there this weekend hopefully. What trails were you guys working on?

  84. #84
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by cowflab View Post
    Hey everyone! Glad I found this forum, and thanks to everyone's hard work! I really wish I had the time to invest in helping you guys maintain those trails, its perhaps my favorite place to ride!

    Just curious, Ill be out there this weekend hopefully. What trails were you guys working on?
    We started work on the Fence Line trail, just west of the intersection with the Hawes Trail. We continued working east along the Hawes Trail.

    On the next work day, we'll continue easterly along the Hawes Trail toward Cardiac. Let us know what you think, and I hope you can join us on one of our future trail work days.

  85. #85
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
    Reputation: longhairmike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    2,588
    i just got out there this afternoon for my first ride since nov 24th,, i was expecting to get my ass handed to me with multiple HAB. although my legs and lungs were f****** dieing, i did not encounter any frustrating dismounts. good job on the repairs,, and im sure those december soaker rains helped pack and settle things too

  86. #86
    mtbr member
    Reputation: azorr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    374
    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Ranger View Post
    Thanks for the help this past Saturday to maintain the Hawes trail system. It was a small but enthusiastic group (all three of us). We did accomplish a lot of work, constructing elongated water bars to keep the trail from eroding any further. We'll see how they hold up over time.

    The next trail work day is scheduled for Saturday, February 7th - 9:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. We'll meet behind Walgreens again (Thomas & Power roads), and plan on riding out to the trail work area. The tools will be awaiting us at the work area.

    I'll try harder to get the word out, and see if we can't get a larger group. I'm hoping for 10 +/-. RSVP here if you think you can make it.

    ~Gary Hanna~
    ghanna@fs.fed.us
    Can I recommend making a new thread with the Day and Location in the thread title, and maybe even adding a Facebook "Event" or something. This would help lazy people like me from having to dig through this thread to find out there is a new work day scheduled, and if I can join a FB event it will remind us to come and help! Hoping to be able to make it to this one by the way.

  87. #87
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by azorr View Post
    Can I recommend making a new thread with the Day and Location in the thread title, and maybe even adding a Facebook "Event" or something. ... if I can join a FB event it will remind us to come and help! Hoping to be able to make it to this one by the way.
    Good idea, thanks! I'll get a new thread going as you suggested. See everyone over there! I'll need to study-up on the Facebook event, as I have never done one. Showing my age here I guess.

  88. #88
    mtbr member
    Reputation: azorr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    374
    If you get the new thread up I can create the Facebook event if you would like

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

  89. #89
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    35
    Quote Originally Posted by azorr View Post
    If you get the new thread up I can create the Facebook event if you would like

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
    Please do the Facebook event. Thank you for your suggestion / help.

  90. #90
    mtbr member
    Reputation: azorr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    374

    Re: Hawes Trail system

    Quote Originally Posted by Forest Ranger View Post
    Please do the Facebook event. Thank you for your suggestion / help.
    Done, thanks for organizing this!

Similar Threads

  1. Hawes trail work day today !!!!
    By Douger-1 in forum Arizona
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 10-14-2014, 09:01 PM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-07-2014, 05:38 PM
  3. Hawes Trail
    By wcj1983 in forum Arizona
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12-02-2012, 02:06 AM
  4. Possible route between Sunrise Trail and Hawes
    By Mtn-Rider in forum Arizona
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-29-2011, 01:29 PM
  5. TRW/Hawes Trail Closure?
    By santacruz99 in forum Arizona
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-06-2011, 03:30 PM

Members who have read this thread: 4

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.