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  1. #1
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    Green Choice Solar

    Pretty PATHETIC!!! You have to push ladies off the trail to claim your standings! You don't call left or right and bomb on through tangling handlebars with a chick - as well as knocking them off the trail - SAD YOU CLAIMED PODIUM - I guess if that's what it takes and you call yourself MTB riders, then so be it but you obviously don't know what COMRADERY is all about!
    CHEATING WON'T GET YOU FAR IN THIS GAME!!!!
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  2. #2
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    PM sent.

  3. #3
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    Do tell.

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    Reason #197 to avoid races...
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineAZ View Post
    Pretty PATHETIC!!! You have to push ladies off the trail to claim your standings! You don't call left or right and bomb on through tangling handlebars with a chick - as well as knocking them off the trail - SAD YOU CLAIMED PODIUM - I guess if that's what it takes and you call yourself MTB riders, then so be it but you obviously don't know what COMRADERY is all about!
    CHEATING WON'T GET YOU FAR IN THIS GAME!!!!
    sorry y'all to stoke the "hater" fire but this is personal (the said rider could have easily been me, did he have a mustache??). just want to say first and foremost that it's a race!! Passing is never cheating, and technically the overtaking rider has the right of way. also please dont make this a gender issue, i passed just as many male riders in the same fasion..

    that said......i understand that you are upset about the lack of "proclamation" about being passed. take it from me being a seriously hearing impaired rider, sometimes i get passed "innapropriately" (very relative term), and the rider did "try to let me know" as he/she passed. are you sure that the rider didn't attempt to let you know they were coming, but you were maybe a little involved with riding?

    my MTBR handle is my real name, and i do not hide behind any filter in the social networking relm....i am what i am. if you ever want to discuss this as adults, in person, i am at the flat tire bike shop everyday except wed and thurs. hope that we can at least agree to disagree and have you stop blasting me and my team.

    lastly, i speak on behalf of myself and this rant was not intended to show my team's viewpoint in any way.
    Increasing the peace, one bike at a time.......

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaolin View Post
    ... sometimes i get passed ...
    I don't believe that.

  7. #7
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    Sunshine AZ? Quite a misnomer. Your foul mouth belongs on a sailor.
    Hearing about your behavior at the beer garden made me pause. I've never encounter someone in a race with such a mouth. Almost unbelievable. Buy some class and move your foul mouth over.
    Just because you didn't hear the passing call doesn't mean it wasn't there to hear. Even so, you hear the tire noise don't you? Oh wait, your mouth is too loud!

  8. #8
    Rhino
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaolin View Post
    ...sometimes i get passed out...
    fixed. Believable.

    -Rhino

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    Are you referring to a pass near the beginning of the loop into a left hander before the step downs?


    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineAZ View Post
    Pretty PATHETIC!!! You have to push ladies off the trail to claim your standings! You don't call left or right and bomb on through tangling handlebars with a chick - as well as knocking them off the trail - SAD YOU CLAIMED PODIUM - I guess if that's what it takes and you call yourself MTB riders, then so be it but you obviously don't know what COMRADERY is all about!
    CHEATING WON'T GET YOU FAR IN THIS GAME!!!!

  10. #10
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    Kaolin, I will call and talk to you personally because I know who you are and didn't want you to think it was you or take it personal but understandable you would because it's your team...I WASN'T YOU! And I'm sorry make you think it was...I will call the shop to talk to you!
    Wonder Whip! "Keep it rubber side down!"

  11. #11
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    777Flyer, I don't need to defend anything...if you weren't the person who did it then you wouldn't know what was said.....heresay things always get misconstrued.
    Wonder Whip! "Keep it rubber side down!"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 777Flyer View Post
    . Even so, you hear the tire noise don't you? Oh wait, your mouth is too loud!
    ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh burnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnn

  13. #13
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    Yo SunshineAZ....was this a race?

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    Again, I ask. Are you referring to a pass near the beginning of the loop into a left hander before the step downs?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineAZ View Post
    777Flyer, I don't need to defend anything...if you weren't the person who did it then you wouldn't know what was said.....heresay things always get misconstrued.

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    You get on here to blast a team because you were not "notified" of being passed...are you F'ING SERIOUS? And on top of that it is A RACE.

  17. #17
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    Ok everyone be nice to Sunshine. She made her point now let's move on.

  18. #18
    It's a slugfest!
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    Sorry Sunshine. It was probably James Clayton...
    "I've got nothing to hoard...."

  19. #19
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    It was me, Joe Berman. Was he wearing a gorilla suit and riding a fat tire bike while drinking a PBR? Love y'all homies, haters and non haters. Keep pedaling people!!!!!!

  20. #20
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    Well played sir! Only a guy in a gorilla suit could be cool like that
    BB

  21. #21
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    just figured out that gcs made approximately 8400 passes 20 - 25 per lap X 28 riders X 12 hrs.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunshineaz View Post
    pretty pathetic!!! You have to push ladies off the trail to claim your standings! You don't call left or right and bomb on through tangling handlebars with a chick - as well as knocking them off the trail - sad you claimed podium - i guess if that's what it takes and you call yourself mtb riders, then so be it but you obviously don't know what comradery is all about!
    Cheating won't get you far in this game!!!!
    execute the son of a b&^*h!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  23. #23
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    Maybe it was this guy, he was doing a lot of rippin and tearin

    Hedonism II Memorial Day Weekend in Jamaica with "Hedo Rick" - YouTube

  24. #24
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    Thank you!
    Wonder Whip! "Keep it rubber side down!"

  25. #25
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    Maybe next time you'll move over.

  26. #26
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    Tiffany - Maybe next time you'll keep your mouth shut unless you actually know how it could have been played out!!!
    Wonder Whip! "Keep it rubber side down!"

  27. #27
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    Sunshine,
    I believe I was the one that touched bars with you. I'm new to MTBs and I'm still learning. I apologize for doing so. I don't remember the exact details. I do remember that it was my fault and a mistake. I do remember saying sorry and that you didn't fall. I try to be a nice guy and gave out several tubes and co2 to strangers in the race. I called out to riders as many times a possible when I approached them. Please remember this was not Green Choice mistake but my fault. Hope to see you out on the trails soon to give you a formal apology.

    Jon Lee Green

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineAZ View Post
    Tiffany - Maybe next time you'll keep your mouth shut unless you actually know how it could have been played out!!!
    Jessie,

    That's funny considering you started this thread. But I'm not supposed to comment? Interesting...

  29. #29
    Meatbomb
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    someone got a chollaball up her butt.




    well spoken Mr Green !!

  30. #30
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    Evidently, there's an entire other world of mountain biking that I know nothing about. And judging by the tone here, my ignorance IS bliss.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    someone got a chollaball up her butt.
    i guarantee if that was the case, she would be less bitter and more sunshiney.
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  32. #32
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    Mr.Green, thank you for posting that and explaining it and putting what it wasis out there. Takes a big man to admit what was done and I appreciate you apologizing. No hard feelings and future lessons learned for us both.
    Wonder Whip! "Keep it rubber side down!"

  33. #33
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    Tiffany, there's a time and a place and a shout out to do so...he apologized and acknowledged it. That's good enough for me. Good night.
    Wonder Whip! "Keep it rubber side down!"

  34. #34
    Speed996
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    I have to say (IMO) the Vitesse (spelling??) riders were much ruder than the Green Solar guys. As a solo rider I know I am going to be slower than most so I can pace myself for the 12hrs. My personal experience on Saturday was the GCS guys that passed me did so when there was a clear window, and if there is plenty of room then go... if not then call it out and let me know you are coming, before you run into me (like a Vitesse guy did.) most of the time I could hear the fast guys (and gals) behind me so I could get out of the way, but on some occasions I didn't have a place to pull over. And sorry guys this is a RACE,so I am not going to stop for you, I will get out of the way at my first safe opportunity. I am one of the race obsticles you have to put up with and figure out a safe way to get around.
    Because I am a rules kinda person, I got off my bike at the dismount point at the tunnel and can say at least 3 Vitesse Guys ran into me, and 3 or 4 near misses as I was dismounting because they didn't think it was necessary to dismount until 10 ft into the tunnel. No crashes, tho so whatev's. Maybe I was fortunate not to meet the jerks of the GCS team, and only the V team... dunno. Gonna have that at every race unfortunately, until I get as fast as the guys. Just one of those things.

  35. #35
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    Standup post Jon. Is this the same Jon Green that went to Mountain View years ago?

    -Steve
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  36. #36
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    I mountain bike to get rid of stress...........jeeeeezz......

  37. #37
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    The XC race scene sounds way more aggro than the DH scene I'm used to. What are you guys/ladies trying to prove. I'm trying to have fun when I ride my bike. What are you trying to do?

  38. #38
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    welp ill never race.. next thread

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    The XC race scene sounds way more aggro than the DH scene I'm used to. What are you guys/ladies trying to prove. I'm trying to have fun when I ride my bike. What are you trying to do?
    This is exactly why a woman's place is in the kitchen. They are always trying to bring the sport down by being competitive and ****.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    This is exactly why a woman's place is in the kitchen. They are always trying to bring the sport down by being competitive and ****.
    Don't be a D-Bag...........

  41. #41
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    Crazy stuff in this thread. Here I go out to de-stress, seems many of you go out to race and be stress monkeys.

    I think I like my routine better.
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    This is exactly why a woman's place is in the kitchen. They are always trying to bring the sport down by being competitive and ****.
    Amanda says she's flicking you on the head next time she sees you.

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  43. #43
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    who farted? Was that James Bliss or Broaderip?

  44. #44
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    No Joe, James doesn't even read this forum, he is computer challenged, lol
    Last edited by fattirebliss; 01-09-2012 at 08:48 PM.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    The XC race scene sounds way more aggro than the DH scene I'm used to. What are you guys/ladies trying to prove. I'm trying to have fun when I ride my bike. What are you trying to do?
    Bloodsport brah......bloodsport.

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  46. #46
    Meatbomb
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    Yup.. I'll pass on the competitive side as well .. too many up tight biotches .


    Sent from my Droid while taking a crap.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiskersOfDeath View Post
    Amanda says she's flicking you on the head next time she sees you.

    Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
    Just as long as she's wearing dish gloves...
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  48. #48
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    This was my first time doing anything like this and I was warned about the b-bag tools but I still wanted to try and I am sure you all passed me many times and i was amazed at how many thanks I got from people and words of encouragement. A couple times I would tell someone to pass and they wouldnt say anything but it is a race and all is good. It was awesome when I got passed on one of the hills by a girl on a ss and then I noticed the bloody elbow. I had a great time and thanks all you spandex wearing freaks for being nice to this slow ass.

  49. #49
    Meatbomb
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    next time .. throw the loud mouth an elbow

  50. #50
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    1st of all Jon, who do you think you are trying to come off the asphalt and stick your nose in the dirt where it doesn't belong?? Apologies will get you nowhere on this battle field we call mtbr az. You should just stick to sucking Marcotte's wheel at the underground crits if you know what's good for you. Joe and Becky, you two sound like a couple of dog grooming, Hotdog cooking, child rearing crybabies.*

    The thing about these endurance races is that all levels of racers are out on the same course at the same time and both the weekend rec riders and those of us that are out for blood need to be aware of each other and do the best we can not to interfere with each other's goals for the event. Hell, I almost accidentally took Kaolin out at dawn to dusk on the 1st lap but he didn't complain. I don't know how many times I came to the tunnel dismounting at 20 mph only to have the guy in front of me come to a complete stop and having to take evasive action to avoid chaos. No complaints, that's racing. The faster riders need to cut a little slack to the slower riders and know that negotiating them is part of the deal and do their best to assess the risk of any given pass as they could crash themselves out let alone the poor guy who's just out there to finish. The slower folks need to remember that there are those out there that take the racing game a little more serious than most and give them the room they need to compete at the higher level. Let's not pour any salt into Ms. Sunshine's wounds, only the tough people can handle that Wound treatment after bike race crash - YouTube

    *Beck and Jon, I was just kidding! Joe, I'll never forgive you for the beer hand up.
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  51. #51
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    Josh, I have no problems, I am not crying my friend. I go out to race and have fun. I have absolutely no issues with anyone. (well maybe casual observers woman hating lol)

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbkracr View Post
    1st of all Jon, who do you think you are trying to come off the asphalt and stick your nose in the dirt where it doesn't belong?? Apologies will get you nowhere on this battle field we call mtbr az. You should just stick to sucking Marcotte's wheel at the underground crits if you know what's good for you. Joe and Becky, you two sound like a couple of dog grooming, Hotdog cooking, child rearing crybabies.*

    The thing about these endurance races is that all levels of racers are out on the same course at the same time and both the weekend rec riders and those of us that are out for blood need to be aware of each other and do the best we can not to interfere with each other's goals for the event. Hell, I almost accidentally took Kaolin out at dawn to dusk on the 1st lap but he didn't complain. I don't know how many times I came to the tunnel dismounting at 20 mph only to have the guy in front of me come to a complete stop and having to take evasive action to avoid chaos. No complaints, that's racing. The faster riders need to cut a little slack to the slower riders and know that negotiating them is part of the deal and do their best to assess the risk of any given pass as they could crash themselves out let alone the poor guy who's just out there to finish. The slower folks need to remember that there are those out there that take the racing game a little more serious than most and give them the room they need to compete at the higher level. Let's not pour any salt into Ms. Sunshine's wounds, only the tough people can handle that Wound treatment after bike race crash - YouTube

    *Beck and Jon, I was just kidding! Joe, I'll never forgive you for the beer hand up.
    well said!
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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbkracr View Post
    1st of all Jon, who do you think you are trying to come off the asphalt and stick your nose in the dirt where it doesn't belong?? Apologies will get you nowhere on this battle field we call mtbr az. You should just stick to sucking Marcotte's wheel at the underground crits if you know what's good for you. Joe and Becky, you two sound like a couple of dog grooming, Hotdog cooking, child rearing crybabies.*

    The thing about these endurance races is that all levels of racers are out on the same course at the same time and both the weekend rec riders and those of us that are out for blood need to be aware of each other and do the best we can not to interfere with each other's goals for the event. Hell, I almost accidentally took Kaolin out at dawn to dusk on the 1st lap but he didn't complain. I don't know how many times I came to the tunnel dismounting at 20 mph only to have the guy in front of me come to a complete stop and having to take evasive action to avoid chaos. No complaints, that's racing. The faster riders need to cut a little slack to the slower riders and know that negotiating them is part of the deal and do their best to assess the risk of any given pass as they could crash themselves out let alone the poor guy who's just out there to finish. The slower folks need to remember that there are those out there that take the racing game a little more serious than most and give them the room they need to compete at the higher level. Let's not pour any salt into Ms. Sunshine's wounds, only the tough people can handle that Wound treatment after bike race crash - YouTube

    *Beck and Jon, I was just kidding! Joe, I'll never forgive you for the beer hand up.
    he keeps his dbaggery entirely to the pump track
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  54. #54
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    Oh, and Josh, you better be nice to me since I am going to come groom your dog on Wednesday.........hehehe

  55. #55
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    mtbkracr, you have pretty mouth.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Slug View Post
    Standup post Jon. Is this the same Jon Green that went to Mountain View years ago?

    -Steve
    Yea. You a toro as well?

  57. #57
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    Nope. But son Brandon was. Nice to see you switch over from the skinny tires, Jon. Hope to see you out on the trails someday, just ummmm, not in a race.... Is your dad on fat tires? Or is he still killing it on the road? Drop me a PM...and welcome to the AZ board!!!!

    -Steve
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver_Slug View Post
    Nope. But son Brandon was. Nice to see you switch over from the skinny tires, Jon. Hope to see you out on the trails someday, just ummmm, not in a race.... Is your dad on fat tires? Or is he still killing it on the road? Drop me a PM...and welcome to the AZ board!!!!

    -Steve
    Steve! Long time. I actually really only do this silly bicycle stuff for the socialize aspect and it beats the gym to keep the belly small. I only ride MTB maybe once or twice a month by myself. I just ride road more because all my friends are roadies. If I had people to go with I would hit the trails more often. I always tried to get Brandon to show me hawes but he always had an excuse. My dad is in hibernation and only does dirt bikes and road when the temp is good. Send me a message sometime if your looking to go ride with someone.

  59. #59
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    This is why I am content being fat and happy and riding down the hill.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaolin View Post
    ... technically the overtaking rider has the right of way.
    Kaolin, I've got to respectfully disagree with this somewhat. I was taught that if you're on your bike and in the track, you have the right of way and it's the passer's responsibility to find a way around. Since you brought it up, though, I went to the USAC rulebook for clarification. Here's what it says: (from section 6E.1 on MTB XC racing)


    "(b) Racers riding bicycles have the right of way over racers pushing bicycles. When practical, racers pushing should stay on the least rideable portion of the path when being passed. A racer pushing or carrying his bicycle can overtake a racer riding his bicycle provided he does not interfere with the rider's progress. Lapped riders may be asked to withdraw at the Finish Line.
    (c) Lapped riders must yield to overtaking riders from the same class and category. Riders should voice the command "Track" when overtaking another. Lapped riders must yield to the passing rider on the first command.
    (d) It is the responsibility of the passing rider from a different class and category to overtake safely. Riders should voice the command “Track” when overtaking another rider. Riders being passed must move over as quickly and efficiently as safely as possible.
    (e) In the event two riders are vying for position, the leading rider does not have to yield his position to the challenging rider. However, a rider may not bodily interfere with the intent to impede another rider's progress. Traditional rules of racing apply: the leading rider owns the track."


    As I see it, a question comes in over "lapping". In a race like this, do you assume that after a certain point in the day everyone you pass is being lapped? Does this apply to teams lapping other teams, or just individual riders? Regardless, as I understand this, with different classes/categories, the leading rider owns the track.

    I'm not trying to be a rule-spouting geek here, but I would like to clearly understand my responsibilities both as passee and passer. If we all have the same expectations and understanding, then we should be able to play nice with each other.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Girl View Post
    Kaolin, I've got to respectfully disagree with this somewhat. I was taught that if you're on your bike and in the track, you have the right of way and it's the passer's responsibility to find a way around. Since you brought it up, though, I went to the USAC rulebook for clarification. Here's what it says: (from section 6E.1 on MTB XC racing)


    "(b) Racers riding bicycles have the right of way over racers pushing bicycles. When practical, racers pushing should stay on the least rideable portion of the path when being passed. A racer pushing or carrying his bicycle can overtake a racer riding his bicycle provided he does not interfere with the rider's progress. Lapped riders may be asked to withdraw at the Finish Line.
    (c) Lapped riders must yield to overtaking riders from the same class and category. Riders should voice the command "Track" when overtaking another. Lapped riders must yield to the passing rider on the first command.
    (d) It is the responsibility of the passing rider from a different class and category to overtake safely. Riders should voice the command “Track” when overtaking another rider. Riders being passed must move over as quickly and efficiently as safely as possible.
    (e) In the event two riders are vying for position, the leading rider does not have to yield his position to the challenging rider. However, a rider may not bodily interfere with the intent to impede another rider's progress. Traditional rules of racing apply: the leading rider owns the track."


    As I see it, a question comes in over "lapping". In a race like this, do you assume that after a certain point in the day everyone you pass is being lapped? Does this apply to teams lapping other teams, or just individual riders? Regardless, as I understand this, with different classes/categories, the leading rider owns the track.

    I'm not trying to be a rule-spouting geek here, but I would like to clearly understand my responsibilities both as passee and passer. If we all have the same expectations and understanding, then we should be able to play nice with each other.
    Not to put words in Kaolin's mouth, but I think what he was trying to say is that a slower rider has the responsibilityto allow the passing rider to pass. That is, he/she should not knowingly try and impede a pass.

    I think the rules above are assuming the race is a shorter-type race, so the only time a racer would be passed is if lapped (if they were in same category), or in a different category and was caught from behind. In this case, you have all level of rider, and racers were doing 15-25 laps. Some are stopping between laps.

    That said, the two times I've actually passed a rider when racing, I've tried to get verbal or physical confirmation that they knew I was passing. If at first I don't get confirmation, I'll try a second time. Still no confirmation, I throw all rules out the window. Only once have I actually crossed handlebars with somebody. When that happened, I stopped to make sure racers was okay, apologized, and then continued on. When I got to the finish line, I waited and told racer I was sorry, that I yelled out that I was looking for a safe place to pass, thought he heard me. Said racer was apologetic about not hearing me.

    I also look for the safest spot to pass. More often than not, the slower rider will *not* pull off the trail, which I'm prefectly fine with. I, personally, can't recall ever having a racer who was obviosly slower than me actually not give me the right of way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Girl View Post
    Here's what it says: (from section 6E.1 on MTB XC racing)

    "(b) Racers riding bicycles have the right of way over racers pushing bicycles. When practical, racers pushing should stay on the least rideable portion of the path when being passed. A racer pushing or carrying his bicycle can overtake a racer riding his bicycle provided he does not interfere with the rider's progress. Lapped riders may be asked to withdraw at the Finish Line.
    (c) Lapped riders must yield to overtaking riders from the same class and category. Riders should voice the command "Track" when overtaking another. Lapped riders must yield to the passing rider on the first command.
    (d) It is the responsibility of the passing rider from a different class and category to overtake safely. Riders should voice the command “Track” when overtaking another rider. Riders being passed must move over as quickly and efficiently as safely as possible.
    (e) In the event two riders are vying for position, the leading rider does not have to yield his position to the challenging rider. However, a rider may not bodily interfere with the intent to impede another rider's progress. Traditional rules of racing apply: the leading rider owns the track."

    As I see it, a question comes in over "lapping". In a race like this, do you assume that after a certain point in the day everyone you pass is being lapped? Does this apply to teams lapping other teams, or just individual riders? Regardless, as I understand this, with different classes/categories, the leading rider owns the track.

    I'm not trying to be a rule-spouting geek here, but I would like to clearly understand my responsibilities both as passee and passer. If we all have the same expectations and understanding, then we should be able to play nice with each other.
    I confess that I'm kinda a rules geek so I appreciate you posting this. I'm curious to see what everyone thinks about it. I will tell you this though, I had no idea I was supposed to use the word "track" when overtaking another rider.

    I think as far as passing goes in races most people who've been around a few seasons know how to do it properly. I think trying to figure out who is a passed rider and who isn't would be near impossible in the longer races and team events. So I'm thinking people just need to use common sense. Seems simple enough. You hear someone coming up move over or tell them you are going to move over when you can. Bad passes in races happen though, thats just part of it. People shouldn't try to call out a team because of one bad pass. Especially when the guy said he apologized at the time! It was just plain beyotch-y and made us female racers look like a bunch of bad attitude cry babies.

    Tiffany

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiffanyinanthem View Post
    You hear someone coming up move over or tell them you are going to move over when you can.
    The one thing I'd like to see in the rules is what side you're going to pass on: i.e., "track left" or "passing left." I'm so used to being passed on the left, and when somebody either just says "passing" or even "passing on your right" it throws me off. (I actually had one racer say "coming through" and pass right between me and a racer I was trying to pass; now THAT pissed me off.)

    That said, I have to kind of disagree with the above, especially for longer, endurance races. Many times, I've heard somebody approach me from behind, only to find out they want to suck my wheel (and I admit, I'll do it too). Until I hear somebody actually ask to pass, I'm going to hold my ground, partly for the reason below. I'd venture to say way more often than not, they *will* want to pass. But in some rare cases, they may want some companionship (and a rabbit to chase).
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  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    I, personally, can't recall ever having a racer who was obviosly slower than me actually not give me the right of way.
    That is because you are a man. ;-) You'd be surprised how many times
    I have had to put up with a man who would attempt to speed up his pace (with a big fat fail) versus let a woman overtake him (maybe it's that "being chicked" thing). Then there are those who turn and glance behind them, clearly acknowledging my polite request to let me pass when safe, and still refuse to move. Like you, that's when all etiquette goes out the window and I pass aggressively, not caring about the outcome for the one I am passing.

    And yes, I am self-aware enough to have already asked myself, many times over, if I was reading into the gender thing, but having compared the way men move out of the way when it's Walt I am racing with, solidified my view that there is gender discrimination by some tools out there. When Walt speaks, they part like the red-effing-sea. :-)

    Which leads me to my point:

    Gender shouldn't be a factor at all, in a mountain bike race. Women shouldn't be treated delicately because they are women, and neither should they be disregarded for the same reason. Without any knowledge on what did or didn't happen in the race referenced, people should just simply get over themselves and make racing something everyone can enjoy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis View Post
    That is because you are a man. ;-) You'd be surprised how many times
    I have had to put up with a man who would attempt to speed up his pace (with a big fat fail) versus let a woman overtake him (maybe it's that "being chicked" thing). Then there are those who turn and glance behind them, clearly acknowledging my polite request to let me pass when safe, and still refuse to move. Like you, that's when all etiquette goes out the window and I pass aggressively, not caring about the outcome for the one I am passing.

    And yes, I am self-aware enough to have already asked myself, many times over, if I was reading into the gender thing, but having compared the way men move out of the way when it's Walt I am racing with, solidified my view that there is gender discrimination by some tools out there. When Walt speaks, they part like the red-effing-sea. :-)

    Which leads me to my point:

    Gender shouldn't be a factor at all, in a mountain bike race. Women shouldn't be treated delicately because they are women, and neither should they be disregarded for the same reason. Without any knowledge on what did or didn't happen in the race referenced, people should just simply get over themselves and make racing something everyone can enjoy.
    This is why I enjoy the 24 Hrs in OP: Where REAL men wear skirts.

    (I can't comment on the man/woman thing, because as you point out, I'm a man [thanks for the acknowledgement ]. But yea, that is kind of shitty of those who can't stand being passed by a woman.)
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  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket Girl View Post
    I went to the USAC rulebook for clarification. Here's what it says: (from section 6E.1 on MTB XC racing)


    "(b) Racers riding bicycles have the right of way over racers pushing bicycles. When practical, racers pushing should stay on the least rideable portion of the path when being passed. A racer pushing or carrying his bicycle can overtake a racer riding his bicycle provided he does not interfere with the rider's progress. Lapped riders may be asked to withdraw at the Finish Line.
    (c) Lapped riders must yield to overtaking riders from the same class and category. Riders should voice the command "Track" when overtaking another. Lapped riders must yield to the passing rider on the first command.
    (d) It is the responsibility of the passing rider from a different class and category to overtake safely. Riders should voice the command “Track” when overtaking another rider. Riders being passed must move over as quickly and efficiently as safely as possible.
    (e) In the event two riders are vying for position, the leading rider does not have to yield his position to the challenging rider. However, a rider may not bodily interfere with the intent to impede another rider's progress. Traditional rules of racing apply: the leading rider owns the track."
    Where's "On your left"...?

    If we have to go to the rule book to figure out how to pass and behave on a race course, there's something wrong. I think of what Todd Sadow says in every pre-race briefing: Be nice out there...use common sense...be cool...etc. It kinda works.

    When I come up on someone, I'll alert them that I'm coming, usually verbally and with my bell, then wait to see if they will slow and move over, or I'll find a wide(r), safe spot to power up and make a pass. I don't care if I have to wait and ride *a bit* slower for 5-10-30 seconds.

    When someone comes up on me, I expect them to alert me that, A. They are there, and B. They are going to pass me. At which point, I look for a spot to slow and/or move over so they can pass. If they don't say anything, I always say, "Wanna go", or something like that, and cue off that. Sometimes they want to settle in behind me for a bit (like on the long, final climb on the OP course, when there is a headwind...), and they'll tell me so. Which is fine, then they call it out when they are ready to go, and I look for a spot.

    Again, just kinda common sense and basic etiquette. I don't really care what the rule book says.

    Funny how the fastest guys/gals are just about always cool, and don't make d-bag moves. How many of us have been passed by Tinker at OP...has he EVER been a dick about it? I was doing the TOWM 38 a few years ago, and on Ice Cave, the two lead 60-mile riders came up on me. They said something like, "Hey, lead 60 riders coming up...when you get a chance"...and they waited for me to find a spot, then took off. Totally polite and cool. It seems to be the riders that like to THINK they are the fastest that are the d-bags...

    Anyways, see you out there!
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  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    This is why I enjoy the 24 Hrs in OP
    Yep, and most of the longer, endurance races, and 12/24-hour events...most people seem to remember it's a long haul, and they don't get all wrapped around the axel about a few seconds here and there.

    It's the "MBAA-type" events, or events with a short, fast loop, or a "roadie-friendly" course that seem to bring out the most aggressive racing behavior.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis View Post
    That is because you are a man. ;-) You'd be surprised how many times
    I have had to put up with a man who would attempt to speed up his pace (with a big fat fail) versus let a woman overtake him (maybe it's that "being chicked" thing). Then there are those who turn and glance behind them, clearly acknowledging my polite request to let me pass when safe, and still refuse to move. Like you, that's when all etiquette goes out the window and I pass aggressively, not caring about the outcome for the one I am passing.

    And yes, I am self-aware enough to have already asked myself, many times over, if I was reading into the gender thing, but having compared the way men move out of the way when it's Walt I am racing with, solidified my view that there is gender discrimination by some tools out there. When Walt speaks, they part like the red-effing-sea. :-)

    .
    Girl this can be its on thread! I really thought it was just me reading into the whole gender thing too. Have had it happen to me where I ask to pass only to get ignored. Or they'll look back when they hear my tires see its a girl and then pick up their pace. (thats my favorite move).

    Tiff

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis View Post
    Gender shouldn't be a factor at all, in a mountain bike race. Women shouldn't be treated delicately because they are women, and neither should they be disregarded for the same reason. Without any knowledge on what did or didn't happen in the race referenced, people should just simply get over themselves and make racing something everyone can enjoy.
    Totally agree re gender...out on a course, we're all RIDERS...some slower; some faster. If you're slower than other riders, understand that, and accomodate faster riders accordingly (see my previous post); if you'rer faster than other riders, understand that, and pass slower riders accordingly (see my previous post).

    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis View Post
    And yes, I am self-aware enough to have already asked myself, many times over, if I was reading into the gender thing, but having compared the way men move out of the way when it's Walt I am racing with, solidified my view that there is gender discrimination by some tools out there. When Walt speaks, they part like the red-effing-sea. :-)
    Use a deeper voice, maybe...
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  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiffanyinanthem View Post
    Girl this can be its own thread! I really thought it was just me reading into the whole gender thing too. Have had it happen to me where I ask to pass only to get ignored. Or they'll look back when they hear my tires see its a girl and then pick up their pace. (thats my favorite move).

    Tiff

    Right?!
    I'm trying to remember if it was you we ran into on the long loop at MMP way back when, and Walt was in your way and didn't hear you coming, thus didn't move (and you were HAMMERING it OUT!) so I used my exorcist/demonic voice (same one I use to tell him to take out the garbage) to shout at him to clear the way? We all laughed, but I had a heightened sensitivity to such a thing at the time, thanks to my "race" experience. Now I'm over it- I LOVE rabbit stew.

    That's why I took this as a platform (nothing personal to the hostess or thread participants) to point out that gender isn't relevant to bad trail etiquette, yet there DOES exist some bullshite that women have to overcome on the trails. It's undeniable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    The one thing I'd like to see in the rules is what side you're going to pass on: i.e., "track left" or "passing left." I'm so used to being passed on the left, and when somebody either just says "passing" or even "passing on your right" it throws me off. (I actually had one racer say "coming through" and pass right between me and a racer I was trying to pass; now THAT pissed me off.)

    That said, I have to kind of disagree with the above, especially for longer, endurance races. Many times, I've heard somebody approach me from behind, only to find out they want to suck my wheel (and I admit, I'll do it too). Until I hear somebody actually ask to pass, I'm going to hold my ground, partly for the reason below. I'd venture to say way more often than not, they *will* want to pass. But in some rare cases, they may want some companionship (and a rabbit to chase).
    Yah, I'm with you, I like to know which side they are going to pass me on. I like passing on the right (is that weird?), but I will always announce that I"m doing it.

    I guess I'm pretty alert about who is coming up on me so if they haven't said anything I'll ask if they want to pass. I don't expect anyone to do it for me though, its my job to announce if I want to pass. If I'm being passed in a race its usually not a yo yo type of situation and I typically dont see the rider again.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post


    Use a deeper voice, maybe...
    I'm just going to record yours, and configure it as my "bell".

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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    It's the "MBAA-type" events, or events with a short, fast loop, or a "roadie-friendly" course that seem to bring out the most aggressive racing behavior.
    Annnnnd, he went there.


  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Where's "On your left"...?
    Old Pueblo is where you hear them ALL.

    From the standard, "on your left/right", to "Incoming!" (glad I was wearing a helmet)

    But my personal all-time favorite, said in a nearly hysterical voice...

    "I'M COMING!!!"....


  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis View Post
    Annnnnd, he went there.

    Just being factual...
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  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis View Post
    But my personal all-time favorite, said in a nearly hysterical voice...
    So it was a woman...?
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    So it was a woman...?
    :

    I would answer but it would violate one of my 2012 resolutions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiffanyinanthem View Post
    I like passing on the right (is that weird?),
    Yes, and wrong. Passing is always done on the left here in America, whether driving a car or racing a bike, or walking/running on your fav trail. Even my dog knows to pass on the left! And she WILL ONLY pass you on the left.

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    In all honesty. I just pass. On the right or left depending on the section. Mainly stick to the left tho. wherever I can make a clean and clear pass, I will make it. It is racing, and generally the faster rider can figure out how and when to pass without causing contact or mayhem. Although at times, It does happen.

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    you would be surprised at the effectiveness of a well vocalized non-sequitor.. when people think you're a nutjob, they will gladly keep their distance

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by motochick View Post
    Yes, and wrong. Passing is always done on the left here in America, whether driving a car or racing a bike, or walking/running on your fav trail. Even my dog knows to pass on the left! And she WILL ONLY pass you on the left.
    Hilariously, I got yelled at by some dude dropping into an arroyo out @ Hawes as I was climbing out of it. He said something like " always pass on the right", sighed again, and rolled his eyes...like this was the most obvious, beaten-into-the-ground, learn-before-you-take-the-bike-from-the-shop trail etiquette.

    20 yards later I finally figured out what he'd said and it was just baffling as heck. Especially since he was coming at me, and apparently insisting on the UK traffic standard.

    I think if you deliver it with enough authority, people will buy pretty much anything you say.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    Hilariously, I got yelled at by some dude dropping into an arroyo out @ Hawes as I was climbing out of it. He said something like " always pass on the right", sighed again, and rolled his eyes...like this was the most obvious, beaten-into-the-ground, learn-before-you-take-the-bike-from-the-shop trail etiquette.

    20 yards later I finally figured out what he'd said and it was just baffling as heck. Especially since he was coming at me, and apparently insisting on the UK traffic standard.

    I think if you deliver it with enough authority, people will buy pretty much anything you say.
    Especially bemusing since as the ascender you had the right of way and trhe descender should have just STFU and let you pass by staying over to allow you to pass on the left. Maybe he is dysl3xic.

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    As somebody who has never passed anybody, I must say that I am suddenly happy about that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by motochick View Post
    Yes, and wrong. Passing is always done on the left here in America, whether driving a car or racing a bike, or walking/running on your fav trail. Even my dog knows to pass on the left! And she WILL ONLY pass you on the left.
    It's done on the left if your in a car or traveling on some other stable, wide, route of travel (i.e. road, sidewalk, etc.). However, in mountain biking the terrain determines on which side you should pass. Many times passing on the left is acceptable, but, in other cases it is not.

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    I have two thoughts about this post:

    One, an entire team is being singled out because of the acts of a few. There was only one GCS guy who passed me and he was rolling, I don't remember if he called out something to let me know, but I don't remember him passing in a vicious way. Not saying it didn't happen, but, it can happen when there are many different skill levels occupying the same course for a long period of time. Ultimately, if an individual has an issue with certain individuals on a team they should confront individuals or team in person instead of this public forum.
    Two, I passed many people during the race and sometimes I passed close and simply forgot to shout something out to let them know I was passing. It happens, we [racers] are worrying about our fitness, keeping our mind right, what lines to choose, among other things that sometimes being courteous tends to be forgotten. That being said, we are all on the trail together and being courteous is something that can help bring us together as a community. I know we forget and sometimes we are wrapped up in our own production, but we must continue to remember that courtesy is something that we should try to maintain, if not just to be a "good" person, but to entice future generations to join the sport of mountain biking.

    I understand it is racing and people are vying for a position, an award, or even money. That must be kept in mind when attending any race, but, a little bit of courtesy can go a long way.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by motochick View Post
    Yes, and wrong. Passing is always done on the left here in America, whether driving a car or racing a bike, or walking/running on your fav trail. Even my dog knows to pass on the left! And she WILL ONLY pass you on the left.
    I remember about 6 months ago, I was ascending on a very wide, yet loose trail. The best line for me was on the extreme left. As I'm climbing, a rider started to descend and he stayed to his right, putting us on a collision course. I held my line, and at the last minute, he moved over and yelled out "I can't get over any more to my right." *sigh*
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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronbrowning View Post
    It's done on the left if your in a car or traveling on some other stable, wide, route of travel (i.e. road, sidewalk, etc.). However, in mountain biking the terrain determines on which side you should pass. Many times passing on the left is acceptable, but, in other cases it is not.
    Oh, thanks for the lesson. I'm sure motochick appreciates yor observation as well.


    (FYI, she was KIDDING!)
    Last edited by Casual Observer; 01-12-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    I remember about 6 months ago, I was ascending on a very wide, yet loose trail. The best line for me was on the extreme left. As I'm climbing, a rider started to descend and he stayed to his right, putting us on a collision course. I held my line, and at the last minute, he moved over and yelled out "I can't get over any more to my right." *sigh*
    Wow don't bring that up here too. Obviously the uphill rider has the left of way or something like that. Next thing you know you'll tell us about how a horse didn't yield around dog poop or something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    I remember about 6 months ago, I was ascending on a very wide, yet loose trail. The best line for me was on the extreme left. As I'm climbing, a rider started to descend and he stayed to his right, putting us on a collision course. I held my line, and at the last minute, he moved over and yelled out "I can't get over any more to my right." *sigh*
    ROTFLMAO! Here's your sign....

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    Quote Originally Posted by aaronbrowning View Post
    It's done on the left if your in a car or traveling on some other stable, wide, route of travel (i.e. road, sidewalk, etc.). However, in mountain biking the terrain determines on which side you should pass. Many times passing on the left is acceptable, but, in other cases it is not.

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