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  1. #1
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    Ghetto tubeless with loose bead tire

    Howdy. Talking specifically about the pipe-tape version of ghetto. I've used this several times with different tires successfully. Now I'm trying to mount a Maxxis Ignitor, which has a very loose bead (I can easily install it by hand with no lever).

    Rim is a WTB dual duty 29er, 28mm wide. I've had both a Rampage and an Exiwolf mounted ghetto on this rim that sealed easily. I have limited clearance on my new SS build and had to go to an Ignitor. The bead is very loose and I can't get them to seat with an air compressor.

    I did get it to seat using a tube and left it overnight. Still no joy.

    Do I need to build up the rim center with velox or something else. Will that help?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    Howdy. Talking specifically about the pipe-tape version of ghetto. I've used this several times with different tires successfully. Now I'm trying to mount a Maxxis Ignitor, which has a very loose bead (I can easily install it by hand with no lever).

    Rim is a WTB dual duty 29er, 28mm wide. I've had both a Rampage and an Exiwolf mounted ghetto on this rim that sealed easily. I have limited clearance on my new SS build and had to go to an Ignitor. The bead is very loose and I can't get them to seat with an air compressor.

    I did get it to seat using a tube and left it overnight. Still no joy.

    Do I need to build up the rim center with velox or something else. Will that help?
    Can't speak to your rim, but I am using ghetto on my DT Swiss 5.1 rims with an ignitor. I have strapping tape, overlayed with pipe tape. First Ignitor on a very clean rim gave me problems. second mount I purposefully left some spooge residue in the rim\bead area, and it went on no problem.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    Howdy. Talking specifically about the pipe-tape version of ghetto. I've used this several times with different tires successfully. Now I'm trying to mount a Maxxis Ignitor, which has a very loose bead (I can easily install it by hand with no lever).

    Rim is a WTB dual duty 29er, 28mm wide. I've had both a Rampage and an Exiwolf mounted ghetto on this rim that sealed easily. I have limited clearance on my new SS build and had to go to an Ignitor. The bead is very loose and I can't get them to seat with an air compressor.

    I did get it to seat using a tube and left it overnight. Still no joy.

    Do I need to build up the rim center with velox or something else. Will that help?
    You just need real air.
    Many of the problems I see with not being able to seat a tire are all related to not enough voloum of air.

    can you not get it to pop on and seat , or can you just not get it to seal ?

    Glad to here you have been getting the tape method to work for you , The tape does work very well,
    and of course tubless is the only way to go .

    But most guys do not have enough air for the job, ----that goes for most shops also-------the little compressors just are not the voloum and pressure needed to seat a tire.

    with alittle soap on the bead and one quick shot of real air voloum and pressure will seat any tire on any wheel.

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    I can't get the tire bead to seat in the rim channel because the bead is so loose (brand-new tire). I have a 33-gal 150psi compressor. It's not industrial, but it tends to get the job done. I'm thinking if I build up the rim channel a bit and retape, it might take up some of the bead slack.

    As I said, everything other tire I've done in this method has had a very tight bead. I was able to get the bead to seat using a tube and very high pressure.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    I can't get the tire bead to seat in the rim channel because the bead is so loose (brand-new tire). I have a 33-gal 150psi compressor. It's not industrial, but it tends to get the job done. I'm thinking if I build up the rim channel a bit and retape, it might take up some of the bead slack.

    As I said, everything other tire I've done in this method has had a very tight bead. I was able to get the bead to seat using a tube and very high pressure.
    try seating it as best you can, then spunking the bead\rim and let it dry a bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    I can't get the tire bead to seat in the rim channel because the bead is so loose (brand-new tire). I have a 33-gal 150psi compressor. It's not industrial, but it tends to get the job done. I'm thinking if I build up the rim channel a bit and retape, it might take up some of the bead slack.

    As I said, everything other tire I've done in this method has had a very tight bead. I was able to get the bead to seat using a tube and very high pressure.
    You just do not have the flow to help the tire blow out and take up the air space and stick to the rim and then fill and pop on the rim.

    I have 1" and 3/4" air hoses ,and a 200 psi pressure with an 80 gall supply so when I hit the trigger it flows a larger voloum and will pop almost any tire on any rim , ---

    some of the really stuborn truck and car tires will take a second air source blowing from the outside of the wheel to help fill the gap while the initial air through the valve fills the tire out to the rim ,

    I have not had to use a second air source on a bike wheel ever .

    some of the presta valves really slow down the incomming air .

    Make sure you prestas are not half cloged with stans, ------

    I have had to remove the cores on some of the prestas to get a really good flow going to get the tire to hit and then seat, ---------

    do you have removeable cores ?

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    From what I've seen.. It's about the soap and water getting the tire to easily move from its resting point uninflated to the rim bead... (using a compressor) I have massive amounts of air but a unsoaped tire and the stickyness of the rubber tape to rubber tire kept it from seating.

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    These kind of problems are why I think the 20" tube "ghetto" method works easier. The tube sets into the rim at a slight angle at each side, allowing the air less room to escape, and as the tire then goes outward the tube is then pressed down and out, making the seal.

    Every 20" tube "ghetto" setup I have done has seated easily with just a small portable Husky compressor.

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    No experience with the tube style, but it seems like a pain in the arse. The pipe tape method has worked very, very well for me. This was the loosest bead tire I have ever seen. I could literally pop both beads on with my fingertips.

    That said, I did manage to get it. I built the rim bed up with a layer of velox, then re-wrapped the pipe tape. I put a tube in to form and bed in the tape. Put some Stan's fluid on the rim bead and did get it to seat with a good blast of air.

  10. #10
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    If the bead is loose, you may just have a bad tire.

    Even if I got the tire to seal up, I wouldn't run it - your chances of popping a bead on the trail is so much greater.
    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    I think he was born around the time of the Chernobyl fallout which would explain a lot.

  11. #11
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    1)
    Assuming you are using a schroeder valve, remove the core AND directly use the air compressor quick release on the valve stem. Don't use an air chuck at all, the bare stem will actuate the quick release and you will get far more volume than if you use an actual tire chuck.

    2)
    "20" tube strip" ghetto tubeless is a more robust method than "pipe tape" ghetto tubeless:
    Tires seat easier.
    Tires adhere to the "tube strip" better than a bare bead, reducing burping.
    The thin tube over the bead actually helps protect the tire from "sidewall snakebites" too. Downside: ~60grams more weight than "pipe tape" ghetto.
    Downside: If you do get a flat you have to carry the messy "tube strip" in your camelback.
    -MitchB

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    My local ACE didn't have the brand of pipe tape I've seen kelstr talk about in another thread. They had their own brand but I think it's the same thing. It's called ACE pipe wrap, anti-corrosion, resists oil, gasoline, water, and most acids, 10mil, 2" x 36 yds., made in Taiwan, $9.99. What do you think, same stuff???
    Last edited by kingair; 04-14-2009 at 01:26 PM.
    There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingair
    My local ACE didn't have the brand of pipe tape I've seen kelstr talk about in another thread. They had there own brand but I think it's the same thing. It's called ACE pipe wrap, anti-corrosion, resists oil, gasoline, water, and most acids, 10mil, 2" x 36 yds., made in Taiwan, $9.99. What do you think, same stuff???
    same stuff. its where I got mine. Ace also had a better, cheaper selection of strapping tape which you might want to pick up if you are going the ghetto route.

    My local ACE usually has 90% of what I need, and is friendlier and more knowledgeable than Orange Hell. They are pricier on bulk items like PVC parts, bulk tubing, but otherwise I prefer to support them.
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    Yep, that tape works fine. And I love to support Ace hardware. They rarely don't have some little thing that I need.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    No experience with the tube style, but it seems like a pain in the arse.
    Lightly inflate 20" tube, place around rim, cut down middle, mount tire, trim off excess. How is that a pain in the arse compared to the ordeal you describe below?
    That said, I did manage to get it. I built the rim bed up with a layer of velox, then re-wrapped the pipe tape. I put a tube in to form and bed in the tape. Put some Stan's fluid on the rim bead and did get it to seat with a good blast of air.
    So you had to add more to the bed, and rewrap, plus mount the tire with a tube, dismount everything, and gunk up the tire with Stans, and you call using a 20" tube a pain in the arse?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mb300
    "20" tube strip" ghetto tubeless is a more robust method than "pipe tape" ghetto tubeless:
    Tires seat easier.
    Tires adhere to the "tube strip" better than a bare bead, reducing burping.
    The thin tube over the bead actually helps protect the tire from "sidewall snakebites" too. Downside: ~60grams more weight than "pipe tape" ghetto.
    Downside: If you do get a flat you have to carry the messy "tube strip" in your camelback.
    I agree to most everything said here.

    About the downsides though.
    1.) I think that by the time you add up the weight of the pipe tape, and also weigh the valve stem you must install, then the weight of the 20" tube that has its own stem comes in much closer. Probably closer to a 30 gram difference.

    2.) I simply carry my spare tube in a ziploc bag, and should I have to install a tube, I have a place to put the old piece of tube.

    I have not had to install a tube except when I tore out a sidewall on a sharp rock. For this reason, I stay away from lightweight tires for here in AZ. I stay up in the 750grams and above range after tearing tires like Specialized Adrenalines way too easily.

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    Tomato/tomahto, dude. If you prefer the tube method, rock on. I prefer the tape method. This particular tire was a pain in the arse due to a loose bead. Otherwise, I've done this method on, I believe, 8 different rims. And I haven't used a quarter of the $8 roll of tape I bought six months ago.

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    Pipe tape works like a charm, cheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    Tomato/tomahto, dude. If you prefer the tube method, rock on. I prefer the tape method. This particular tire was a pain in the arse due to a loose bead. Otherwise, I've done this method on, I believe, 8 different rims. And I haven't used a quarter of the $8 roll of tape I bought six months ago.
    If it works for you then great

    I simply have used the tube method on many tires, and have never had to mount a tire with a tube first, or mess with building up the rim. I have just mounted the tires up and ran with it, so for me it just seems more straight forward.

    That, and I believe that there is less chance for a tire to burp having the rubber to help seal on the bead, as I have never once had a tire burp air.

    Nice thing is that there are several viable options now for tubeless. If you find you can make one of them work for you at a price you can afford, then that is what matters. I know I like being able to mount up a $9.99 Velociraptor instead of eating up a $45 tire in a month on AZ rocks.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrwhlr
    Pipe tape works like a charm, cheap.
    Yep the pipe tape works really well.
    I can not tell you the many many wheels I have done for guys and showed them the easy way to run tubeless .

    Now I just have to get guys to understand the joys of having a good air supply and why soap is so importaint so they can mount any tire on any wheel with ease

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    Quote Originally Posted by mb300
    1)Assuming you are using a schroeder valve, remove the core AND directly use the air compressor quick release on the valve stem. Don't use an air chuck at all, the bare stem will actuate the quick release and you will get far more volume than if you use an actual tire chuck.
    This is actually a great tip. Used it this morning to mount a Rampage pipe-tape tubeless and it REALLY dumps a volume of air into the tire. Bead seated instantly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    This is actually a great tip. Used it this morning to mount a Rampage pipe-tape tubeless and it REALLY dumps a volume of air into the tire. Bead seated instantly.
    how do you use schraeder for ghetto tubeless? Probably a dumb question, but often they don't fit the hole in the rim, and how do you secure it without a lock nut?
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    Good catch. Not sure if that's a typo on the OP's part. I use regular Stan's Presta's with removable core.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant
    This is actually a great tip. Used it this morning to mount a Rampage pipe-tape tubeless and it REALLY dumps a volume of air into the tire. Bead seated instantly.
    Now you are begining to see how volume works to seat tires.

    You get the 3/4 " hose coupler and the 3/4 " chuck all on the 1" hose and you remove the valve core from the presta or schradder and you hit the lever and it really does not matter what tire you are putting on or how loose the bead is------it goes on really quick.

    With the little 3/8" couppler with the little 1/4" hose like most shops and guys have you can hit the valve with just the couppler and it will help your volume no doubt.( my coupplers are so huge that the little schradder or presta can not open them )

    Its all about quick hit of volume and soap , ----and you will be poping any tire on any rim !!

    I am glad you are getting it to all work out for you , -------I remember when I first started helping you do tubeless , -------You had a bit of a learning curve at first

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