Flagstaff trail conditions.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Flagstaff trail conditions.

    I will be up in flagstaff with the family next week. Will there be any place to ride that is not muddy? Highs are in the 50ís and Iím ok riding in temps above 38 or so. Iím staying near Shultz why. Iíll take anything I can get. I might drop down to Sedona but that is a lot of time away from family and I am taking the only car

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    The Campbell Mesa are trails were all OK to ride this past weekend. Flagstaff Loop Trail and AZT @ Walnut Canyon were OK in the morning but got muddy as the ground thawed during the day. I did not venture on any of the stuff up by Schultz so I can't say regarding the condition of any of those trails. Sedona should be perfect though!

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    Upper and lower Rocky Ridge were all good to go about two weeks ago. We have had rain since then but I don't see them being too different especially if you are not here until next week. I have been running on fat mans, Christmas tree and some of little elden (until the new heart turn off) and all that has been dry. It might be a bit muddy after heart since the shade increases so I would be wary.

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    Little Elden is real wet still after the turn off from the new Heart Trail. If your on it early I bet it still would be ok but not a great idea as it warms up. Seeing the damage from folks recently is kind of a bummer if you've been a part of building that new section.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones2 View Post
    I will be up in flagstaff with the family next week. Will there be any place to ride that is not muddy? Highs are in the 50ís and Iím ok riding in temps above 38 or so. Iím staying near Shultz why. Iíll take anything I can get. I might drop down to Sedona but that is a lot of time away from family and I am taking the only car
    all the southern aspects, rocky ridge, nightranger, lower oldham, forces of nature, pipeline etc, all the way past fat mans to sandy seep, are currently dry and clear but for the occasional blown down tree.
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler View Post
    all the southern aspects...
    On the other hand, northern aspects and shady regions still have snow. Here's a photo taken today on Schultz Pass Road.

    -db-


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbflg View Post
    On the other hand, northern aspects and shady regions still have snow. Here's a photo taken today on Schultz Pass Road.

    -db-

    That looks nice. Worth renting a fat bike? (Current bike 27.5x2.6)
    would waterline be rideable or muddy? I would think if Shultz rd has snow waterline probably would also.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones2 View Post
    That looks nice. Worth renting a fat bike? (Current bike 27.5x2.6)
    would waterline be rideable or muddy? I would think if Shultz rd has snow waterline probably would also.
    Perhaps if you get out early while it's still frozen. Otherwise, if you are getting on trails it will be a mixed bag with wet and muddy sections. Cosmic is rents fat bikes but have sold most of their fleet.

    From the Y a loop with L. Oldham and Rocky Ridge and then over to fort Valley and Chimney and Moto is do-able. 6275 rd is what is dry and climbable. I haven't been on Dogfood but that might be covered in slash from thinning in the area. Either way there's 2 hours of riding to be had without getting too muddy or impacting trails. You won't get very far up Schultz Creek trail before it's a no-go.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Perhaps if you get out early while it's still frozen. Otherwise, if you are getting on trails it will be a mixed bag with wet and muddy sections. Cosmic is rents fat bikes but have sold most of their fleet.

    From the Y a loop with L. Oldham and Rocky Ridge and then over to fort Valley and Chimney and Moto is do-able. 6275 rd is what is dry and climbable. I haven't been on Dogfood but that might be covered in slash from thinning in the area. Either way there's 2 hours of riding to be had without getting too muddy or impacting trails. You won't get very far up Schultz Creek trail before it's a no-go.
    All the Dogfoods below the pipeline are all clear and quite dry, and some kind soul has removed all the limb litter from them that the Onceler left behind. Nearby social trails are fully obliterated or buried under massive quantities of organic matter. Above the pipeline upper Dogfood is still pretty wet and in places the snowfields are still large and deep, making it generally impassable in an uphill direction without a lot of walking. Lower Hotshot is clear and dry in general, as is Mullet/KY Waterfall and lower Moto.

    Schultz is a frozen, sloppy, rutted mess and, from the sound of it, the handcrews are out noisily sawyering the western ridges of Dry Lake Hills above the trail, too. No fun.

    Upper Dogfood, 07 Mar 20
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    The deep drainage on AZT above the Hotshot intersection is completely impassible due to several very large snapped and exploded trees across the trail. Lots of snow in this vicinity still... snow and big downed trees on lower rustypipe, too.

    Several massive log decks atop the AZT where it crosses Weatherford Rd.

    Easter Island is clear of snow and trees but is at flood stage. Old lower moto (cruiser nation route) may be salvageable with a little volunteer labor.
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  11. #11
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    👍🏿 good shit.

  12. #12
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    Things have changed

    All four seasons, just one week... Dogfood at AZT today.

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-f17759ff-a90a-4a31-9a3f-c98b46a06376.jpeg
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  13. #13
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    Same four seasons, the very next week...

    Dogfood at AZT today.

    Name:  31661194-1027-4DEF-866A-F76159D7765A.jpeg
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  14. #14
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    Nice repeat photo Rocky! Tis spring for sure.

    For those on AZT the FS is aware of the log deck and slash that has basically obliterated the trail for a hundred yards or so. There's also a hazard tree about 1 mile up Schultz Creek trail. It's about chest high on a corner.

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-azt_6275rd.jpg

  15. #15
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    Anybody been on Rocky Ridge in last day or 2?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinatorj View Post
    Anybody been on Rocky Ridge in last day or 2?
    Eastern 2/3 is dry, western 1/3 is still kinda greasy
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  17. #17
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    Kentucky waterfall. Git sum!!!👍🏿

  18. #18
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    Felt kinda wintry out there today.

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-azt_snow.jpg

  19. #19
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    Still a bit of a snowy trudge on the last verdant slope on Schultz below Lincoln logs gate. Large pockets of leftover snow can still be seen from Gnarly, Elden Spring, Secret and elsewhere if youíre up above 8200í or soon the southern aspects. The water is still dribbling and drabbling in pleasant ways down most of the largest drainages in the Dry Lake and Ft Valley areas. All that to say, spring has officially arrived in Norte Arizona!
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  20. #20
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    The trees on the upper end of Schultz Creek trail got cut out the end of last week. There's a couple down on L. Bear and a big one on upper Moto. FS will be getting to those this week. Sunset from the tank to L. Bear is clear. AZT out by Aspen Corner at 9000' still has snow. Please use this reporting form if you come across deadfall. https://flagstaffbiking.org/mountain...il-conditions/

    In trail news, Little Elden is complete with new signage going in next week. ACE has another mile or so to go on Heart. Work will being on the lower Schultz Creek reroute out of the drainage and off the road today. Trail Faeries have the green light on realigning a section of the Arizona trail connector west of the 420 rd. No word on when Elden Lookout rd will reopen. There is a 2-week construction project about to start now that the flood retention work with Natural Channel Design has been completed below the climbing area and adjacent to Lower Oldham trail.

  21. #21
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    The Museum Fire closure has been lifted. https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cocon...d=FSEPRD730820

    FLAGSTAFF, Ariz., April 28, 2020 ó Coconino National Forest is rescinding the closure order for the burned area of last year's Museum Fire north of Flagstaff.

    Lifting this closure order allows public access into the burned area on Mount Elden and Dry Lake Hills, which has been closed since the Museum Fire began on July 21, 2019 and burned more than 1,900 acres in the heart of this popular recreation area.

    Although open again, the area still poses many dangers and hazards, so visitors should enter at their own risk and be aware of the possibility of falling trees, rolling rocks, and flash floods in the area--especially during high winds or when heavy precipitation is expected.

    Elden Lookout Road (Forest Road 557) will temporarily remain closed to motor vehicles, but is open to pedestrian, equestrian, and bicycle traffic. Several construction and maintenance projects are planned for Elden Lookout Road in the coming months, which means heavy equipment and construction crews will be using the road frequently.

    In addition, due to heavy post fire damage, Upper Oldham and upper portions of Brookbank Trails will remain closed until repairs can be made. Visitors are asked to obey posted signs in the burned area, including staying off closed trails.
    The closure order and map here: https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...eprd693785.pdf

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    The Museum Fire closure has been lifted.
    Is Sunset fully open now? I looked at the second link and it appears to be the old closure order.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonderosaT View Post
    Is Sunset fully open now? I looked at the second link and it appears to be the old closure order.
    That would certainly seem to be what the press statement rescinding the original order implies.
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonderosaT View Post
    Is Sunset fully open now? I looked at the second link and it appears to be the old closure order.
    Yeah I only added that link as it has the map of the closure area in it. Hopefully ACE is able to get a crew on upper Brookbank to get the hazard tree work done.

  25. #25
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    The large tree that's down on lower Sunset will get cut out tomorrow. And the one on Little Bear near the top if there's time.

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    We rode the AZT section between FR418 and Bismark Lake yesterday. The north-facing section that is 3 to 3 Ĺ miles south of FR418 still has snow. There are a few downed trees* in this area. Given the amount of snow, it's unlikely to get cleaned up soon. Farther north towards FR418, the switchback section is dry and tree fall has already been cut.

    We had originally planned on riding all the way to Aspen Corner but turned around at the Bismark turnoff. We'll try again in a week or three.

    -db-



    *Will upload GPS coordinates to the FBO link.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbflg View Post
    We rode the AZT section between FR418 and Bismark Lake yesterday. The north-facing section that is 3 to 3 Ĺ miles south of FR418 still has snow. There are a few downed trees* in this area. Given the amount of snow, it's unlikely to get cleaned up soon. Farther north towards FR418, the switchback section is dry and tree fall has already been cut.

    We had originally planned on riding all the way to Aspen Corner but turned around at the Bismark turnoff. We'll try again in a week or three.

    -db-



    *Will upload GPS coordinates to the FBO link.
    Great update, db! Been wonder about AZT/418...

    Still a few pockets of snow remaining in the MEDL area, too, if you know where to look for them. Had to sorta swim out of this auger... those postholes are knee-deep.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flagstaff trail conditions.-b23d0779-2a16-45df-ad5a-09156cac1c21.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler View Post
    Still a few pockets of snow remaining in the MEDL area, too, if you know where to look for them. Had to sorta swim out of this auger... those postholes are knee-deep.
    Got a first-hand report yesterday that the spring skiing on the north side of the Peaks (i.e., Abineau Trail) is the best in years. There is just a short walk from the trail head before hitting good snow. It may be a month or two before Waterline Road is rideable.

    -db-

  29. #29
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    The eastern section of Schultz Pass Road (Forest Road 420), near where it intersects with Mt. Elden Road all the way to the gate just past Schultz Tank, will be closed to all motorized traffic tomorrow through Friday due to log hauling operations.
    https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cocon...d=FSEPRD733832

    The 420 rd will reopen over the weekend for public access and then will close again next week until they're done.

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    Is Hart Prairie loop open?

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    Is Hart Prairie loop open?
    Yep, pretty much everything is open except snowbowl rd and the road to Lockett Meadow. https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cocon...telprdb5339811

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    I typically drop the wifey and 10 yo off at 151 and 9215. I was thinking this time of dropping them off at Snow bowl. Thatís a no go?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by fiveo View Post
    I typically drop the wifey and 10 yo off at 151 and 9215. I was thinking this time of dropping them off at Snow bowl. Thatís a no go?
    Snowbowl rd is gated at the bottom, presumably to keep the yahoos off the slopes while they replace the chairlift. I suspect it will open once the snow is mostly gone so that folks can hike Kachina and Humphreys Peak trails. Pretty nice for road biking though!

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    Thank you for the info. Wife and daughter get to climb.

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    We biked up Waterline Road today. There is some snow but most of it is easy to ride around. There's some snow with a bit of HAB just around the corner from the spring and cabins. From there up into the Inner Basin is a bit of a snow slog. Lots of snow...some rideable sections. The biggest issue is treefall. I counted more than two dozen trees down. Most could be easily bypassed; some required climbing over or ducking under.

    We saw two other mtb'ers. Otherwise, we had it to ourselves. Beautiful day!

    -db-

    Waterline Road.

  36. #36
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    The trees were cut out today on AZT from FR418 to the intersection with Rocky Moto trail.

    Thanks for the sawyer work Chainslap!

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-deadfall_azt418.jpg

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-deadfall_rocky-moto.jpg

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    Nice sawyer work Ė thanks! Also thanks to the FS guys for being so polite on their motos; pulling off the trail, killing the engines and announcing who they are.


    'Round the Peaks route is in great riding shape with seven trees only to dismount on Waterline Rd.

    There are a couple of water flows crossing the west side AZT part of the route that could be treated from. Ideal location on the route if you prefer to pack a Steripen or filter instead of a butt-crushing load of liquid.

    Some tree removal work down low on AZT forces a left-hand detour. Look for the small, red AZT detour signs.

    I'm impressed by the condition of this area is considering its urban proximity. Good work, all.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    Nice sawyer work Ė thanks! Also thanks to the FS guys for being so polite on their motos; pulling off the trail, killing the engines and announcing who they are.


    'Round the Peaks route is in great riding shape with seven trees only to dismount on Waterline Rd.

    There are a couple of water flows crossing the west side AZT part of the route that could be treated from. Ideal location on the route if you prefer to pack a Steripen or filter instead of a butt-crushing load of liquid.

    Some tree removal work down low on AZT forces a left-hand detour. Look for the small, red AZT detour signs.

    I'm impressed by the condition of this area is considering its urban proximity. Good work, all.
    Actually not FS, rather Coconino Trail Riders. Two or three of the CTR guys have gone through the forest service sawyer certification and the agency is grateful for the help. Especially in remote areas where it's a long way to hike in. We thank them but try not to draw attention to the moto part on nonmotorized trails since it's such a polarizing topic in this town.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by She&I View Post
    Nice sawyer work Ė thanks! Also thanks to the FS guys for being so polite on their motos; pulling off the trail, killing the engines and announcing who they are.


    'Round the Peaks route is in great riding shape with seven trees only to dismount on Waterline Rd.

    There are a couple of water flows crossing the west side AZT part of the route that could be treated from. Ideal location on the route if you prefer to pack a Steripen or filter instead of a butt-crushing load of liquid.

    Some tree removal work down low on AZT forces a left-hand detour. Look for the small, red AZT detour signs.

    I'm impressed by the condition of this area is considering its urban proximity. Good work, all.
    That was me and another CTR sawyer. We both have full FS certs and FS clothing. Thanks for being understanding. We try to only do AZT once and head out early on a weekday. In the years doing it, I've only had one person upset still after talking to them and that was yesterday. I'm so damn tired from cutting trees that we just idle along the trail as well. So it's not like we are roosting berms. Lol

    Did a couple trees on Upper Moto as well. Seems like most of Elden is clear otherwise, for now...

  40. #40
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    Sections of Elden Lookout Road will be closed to all motorized, pedestrian, and bicycle traffic periodically to ensure public safety while construction work is completed as part of the Museum Fire Burned Area Emergency Response efforts.

    During this time, construction workers will be placing articulating concrete block mats to help protect the road from erosion and restore damaged sections of the road.

    Traffic of all kinds will be allowed up the road as far as the current work site, but will not be allowed to go beyond the work site. Please refer to the map and dates to view where each site is located along Elden Lookout Road.

    Site 1: May 15 (construction work will commence for one day)
    Site 2. May 27 (one day)
    Site 3: June 5 (two days)
    Site 4: June 17 (one day)
    Site 6: June 30 (two days)
    https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cocon...T47zHovRutqCEc

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Chainslap- View Post
    That was me and another CTR sawyer. We both have full FS certs and FS clothing. Thanks for being understanding. We try to only do AZT once and head out early on a weekday. In the years doing it, I've only had one person upset still after talking to them and that was yesterday. I'm so damn tired from cutting trees that we just idle along the trail as well. So it's not like we are roosting berms. Lol

    Did a couple trees on Upper Moto as well. Seems like most of Elden is clear otherwise, for now...
    Thank you.
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  42. #42
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    Looks like itís the south side time to get thinned. AZ trail after the poo pond climb has about 3-inches of silt from the heavy equipment using the double track. A fat bike would have been perfect.

  43. #43
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    I seem to have lost the link for reporting downed trees across trails and can't find it on googles. Eastern terminus of Freidlein Prairie Road (where vehicular traffic parks in the round turnaround spot), large aspen is down within the first 5-yds of the Weatherford trail. I imagine after the high winds today...there will be many, many more.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I seem to have lost the link for reporting downed trees across trails and can't find it on googles. Eastern terminus of Freidlein Prairie Road (where vehicular traffic parks in the round turnaround spot), large aspen is down within the first 5-yds of the Weatherford trail. I imagine after the high winds today...there will be many, many more.
    https://flagstaffbiking.org/mountain...il-conditions/

    The trees on the aspen corner connector to AZT have been reported. Also, the hazard spot on Little Bear where the trail tread has largely collapsed. Trail Faeries may get to the latter issue and build a rock retaining wall.

  45. #45
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    Thx, reporting now.




  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    https://flagstaffbiking.org/mountain...il-conditions/

    The trees on the aspen corner connector to AZT have been reported. Also, the hazard spot on Little Bear where the trail tread has largely collapsed. Trail Faeries may get to the latter issue and build a rock retaining wall.
    I forgot about the connector when we cleared it...oops! Crazy winds today. I won't be able to do any clearing until next week at the earliest.

  47. #47
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    Thanks for the link Rockman, I'll get on that tomorrow. Thanks -Chainslap- for all you do, but yeah the wind knocked a handful onto your freshly cleaned AZT. Did an ATM ride y'day: 5 down on Waterline, 6 on Inner Basin (no snow) & 6 more on the AZT between 418 & Snowbowl Rd. (4 of those within 4 miles of 418 & the other 2 on the downhill to Snowbowl Rd.) I did manage to drag 3 others off the trail and remove a bunch of branches/tree scraps off the Inner Basin trail. It was so odd not seeing a soul on that trail.
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  48. #48
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    Big ride Schillingsworth! The trees on AZT in the vicinity of Bismark Lake have been reported. The city takes care of the ones on Waterline. The IB road is still closed so not sure when the FS will get the ones on Pickup Sticks or IB trail.

  49. #49
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    Need to do that ride sometime this summer. Too bad cannot access Bear jaw...

  50. #50
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    Tree down on AZT in the last aspen grove as you head towards Bismarck Lake from Snowbowl. Itís been reported. Unfortunately itís on the start of the decent down to FR 418.


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    The tree down on the Weatherford connector at the end of Friedlein Prairie Rd has been cut out.

    Also Snowbowl rd is now open.

  52. #52
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    The trees (~a dozen or so) have been cleared from Inner Basin trail (aka pick-up-stiks) and Waterline Rd.

  53. #53
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    Flagstaff Trail Faeries got out last weekend to fix a section of trail tread that had collapsed on Little Bear. We built a crib wall and also raked the rubble off the tread for ~1 mile on the upper half, above the switchbacks. Get some!

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-little-bear_1.jpg

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-little-bear-crib-wall_2.jpg

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-little-bear-crib-wall_3.jpg

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-little-bear-crib-wall_4.jpg

  54. #54
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    Great work! Thanks to all involved!

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    Thanks trail crew and Rockman. Havenít followed as closely as I should. Is it possible to ride up Elden Lookout for a Sunset-Little Bear- Schultz run?
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Thanks trail crew and Rockman. Havenít followed as closely as I should. Is it possible to ride up Elden Lookout for a Sunset-Little Bear- Schultz run?
    They have been doing construction up top but had let me pass. Just be patient and wait for the crew to give you the go ahead!
    Yeti SB130 LR

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Thanks trail crew and Rockman. Havenít followed as closely as I should. Is it possible to ride up Elden Lookout for a Sunset-Little Bear- Schultz run?
    Yes, but there are periodic closures due to road construction. The road is supposedly closed about halfway up today and tomorrow. And then again on June 17 for one day and June 30 for two days. Generally, the road is open to the construction zone but they have also varied from those dates but as indicated by Maxwell you may still be able to get by. Map with locations here: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cocon...aFwpOCh5Im1Dkk
    Last edited by rockman; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:19 PM.

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    Just became aware of lost dog between Moto and dogfood in the last month. Got on it yesterday and really enjoyed it. Who should I thank for this route? Also, has it been there this whole time and I just happened to notice it now with all the trees gone?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by comfycoaster View Post
    Just became aware of lost dog between Moto and dogfood in the last month. Got on it yesterday and really enjoyed it. Who should I thank for this route? Also, has it been there this whole time and I just happened to notice it now with all the trees gone?
    Lower section to the AZT went in 2 years ago. Middle section was burned in to the pipeline last year during the helicopter thinning closure, and the upper part above the pipeline was built this spring. All of it unauthorized trail construction.

    It does offer a more pleasant singletrack experience than the adjacent Dogfood Engineer trail which is on an old eroded road bed. Haven't heard anything about decommissioning but it's likely coming. The proliferation of more user created routes in Fort Valley has not gone unnoticed by the land manager or environmental orgs like the Sierra Club.

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    Thanks rockman, I had seen the entry/exit for a while now on lower dogfood before the berm but never really explored it until I saw someone climbing up it while I was going up dogfood recently. It is a good trail in both directions so I look forward to seeing what happens to it and dogfood engineer. As always thanks for the info.

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    Good trail? Lost dog is actually the perfect example of how NOT to build a trail, and everything wrong with the illegal trail building happening in that part of our system.

    What exactly does it bring to the table?

    Connectivity? Nope, its redundant with Dog Food literally within view.

    Unique user experience? Nope, its more of the same poorly thought out, rake and ride nonsense. Its relatively flat and very slow with corners that don't work. It doesn't take advantage of the terrain, geology or natural contours and features that are right there. It's as if it was designed by someone who prefers 1993, fun hating mountain bike geometry.

    Sustainability? Not really. It manages to be slow and boring and still run water in a sensitive drainage. It will have a very short shelf life before it starts braiding and turning into resource damage.

    The only thing it has going for it is that it is there, that's it. People are so starved for content, they think this is where you set the bar for trail development in Flagstaff.

    As someone who actually builds a fair amount of well designed trail for the community, this is the low level garbage I would not waste a single breathe advocating for, or a single man hour trying to maintain. Neither would any trail builder.

    We can do so much better than prove the local anti mountain bike access crowd right,by bringing amateur hour garbage like this to the table.

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuctionGoat View Post
    Good trail? Lost dog is actually the perfect example of how NOT to build a trail, and everything wrong with the illegal trail building happening in that part of our system.

    What exactly does it bring to the table?

    Connectivity? Nope, its redundant with Dog Food literally within view.

    Unique user experience? Nope, its more of the same poorly thought out, rake and ride nonsense. Its relatively flat and very slow with corners that don't work. It doesn't take advantage of the terrain, geology or natural contours and features that are right there. It's as if it was designed by someone who prefers 1993, fun hating mountain bike geometry.

    Sustainability? Not really. It manages to be slow and boring and still run water in a sensitive drainage. It will have a very short shelf life before it starts braiding and turning into resource damage.

    The only thing it has going for it is that it is there, that's it. People are so starved for content, they think this is where you set the bar for trail development in Flagstaff.

    As someone who actually builds a fair amount of well designed trail for the community, this is the low level garbage I would not waste a single breathe advocating for, or a single man hour trying to maintain. Neither would any trail builder.

    We can do so much better than prove the local anti mountain bike access crowd right,by bringing amateur hour garbage like this to the table.
    I tend to agree. Rode it for the first time last week and was pretty unimpressed. Mostly took the path of least resistance, kinda awkward, derailleur grabbers, and crosses the drain dozens of times with sticks to fill the ditch. Couldn't get into a good flow. It was a pretty obvious place to build an easy trail like that though. Albeit pretty unnecessary.

  63. #63
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    First time on Elden since the fires. When the weather forecast says ďbreezyĒ I guess they mean gale-force ďbreezes.Ē

    Just did Elden Lookout up then all the way down sunset and Schultz. Had more planned, but the climbing headwind sucked the life out of me.

    I donít know, man. I love Flag and the riding, and really appreciate all the hard work being done. But all the burn damage and blown-out moon dust was a bummer.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  64. #64
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    June is my least favorite month in Flag. I saw a report of 71mph on top of Elden today. Mtns in Utah are getting snow. Norte AZ gets the wind. Once Monsoons kick in it's magic.

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    It was crazy. And not in a good way.
    Just like a raindrop, I was born to fall.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuctionGoat View Post
    Good trail? Lost dog is actually the perfect example of how NOT to build a trail, and everything wrong with the illegal trail building happening in that part of our system.

    What exactly does it bring to the table?

    Connectivity? Nope, its redundant with Dog Food literally within view.

    Unique user experience? Nope, its more of the same poorly thought out, rake and ride nonsense. Its relatively flat and very slow with corners that don't work. It doesn't take advantage of the terrain, geology or natural contours and features that are right there. It's as if it was designed by someone who prefers 1993, fun hating mountain bike geometry.

    Sustainability? Not really. It manages to be slow and boring and still run water in a sensitive drainage. It will have a very short shelf life before it starts braiding and turning into resource damage.

    The only thing it has going for it is that it is there, that's it. People are so starved for content, they think this is where you set the bar for trail development in Flagstaff.

    As someone who actually builds a fair amount of well designed trail for the community, this is the low level garbage I would not waste a single breathe advocating for, or a single man hour trying to maintain. Neither would any trail builder.

    We can do so much better than prove the local anti mountain bike access crowd right,by bringing amateur hour garbage like this to the table.
    I'll take the bait. There is pretty much a trail on every ridgeline and gully in Fort Valley. When we did the trail planning scoping for the Flagstaff Trails Initiatives poor connectivity and trail quality were the primary complaints from the public poll. The mapping exercise tally was 50+ miles of unauthorized trails compared to 25 miles of official system trail. The Arizona Trail that bisects the area is the only one designated as nonmotorized. The motorized trails in particular were noted for lack of maintenance, poor layout, and erosion problems.

    It's a good example of not providing quality trails and access. Because of poor connectivity and lack of loop options, especially for the moto crowd, folks will just make more social and illegal trails. It comes nowhere near balancing sustainability with user needs and impacts. It's also a wildlife corridor and the enviros are anxious to get motos banned entirely

  67. #67
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    The Elden Lookout Rd construction project will be done tomorrow (friday). The work is impressive although as a geologist I have my doubts that it will hold in a 100 yr event much less a 10 yr event. The power of water on a burn scar is an impressive agent of change.

    The crossing at Red Onion. The rip wrap is supposed to dissipate the hydraulic energy and then the debris flows sheet across the pavers which are locked in place with cable and concrete.

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-red-onion_elo.png


    Suffice it to say dropping the rock roll or hitting the gap jump on upper Wasabi is a no go. There will also be a fence to "catch" the big rocks.

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-wasabi_elo.png

    The road will likely remain non-motorized use the rest of the year.

  68. #68
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    Can anyone tell me if the Fort Valley is open for dispersed camping again? Are the trails in that area even rideable after the logging operation? Alternately, is there a spot maybe a little further north where i can camp near the AZT? We are looking to escape the valley heat and hopefully get some riding in for a couple days.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horseshoe View Post
    Can anyone tell me if the Fort Valley is open for dispersed camping again? Are the trails in that area even rideable after the logging operation? Alternately, is there a spot maybe a little further north where i can camp near the AZT? We are looking to escape the valley heat and hopefully get some riding in for a couple days.
    I just drove by there yesterday, there were numerous campers out already. Just as long as you are not having a camp fire you are good to go. The trails are fine from there. I actually haven't gone past lower moto/flue intersection recently but I assume someone will correct me if they are unrideable from the trail head.

    There are new places I have been seeing people camp on elden using the new fire roads as access from schultz. I am not entirely sure if that is allowed or not so I would check the forest service website first.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by comfycoaster View Post
    I just drove by there yesterday, there were numerous campers out already. Just as long as you are not having a camp fire you are good to go. The trails are fine from there. I actually haven't gone past lower moto/flue intersection recently but I assume someone will correct me if they are unrideable from the trail head.

    There are new places I have been seeing people camp on elden using the new fire roads as access from schultz. I am not entirely sure if that is allowed or not so I would check the forest service website first.
    Technically no, those are considered administrative roads and not open under the travel management plan. For roads open to motorized use go here: https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/cocon...telprdb5356224

    Lots of dispersed camping off 164B and 9002 and the Fort Valley TH and trails are all open. There are still some biomass piles but there is no active and on-going thinning in Fort Valley. The Orion Task Order may pick back up in late August.

  71. #71
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    Thanks! Weíll stick to the open roads and hear you loud and clear on the fire restrictions. We donít need a repeat of last weekend where half the state was on fire.

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    I've ridden from the Fort Valley trailhead twice in the last month or so and everything I rode there was in good shape. There's a section of Lower Moto that I recall being a little bumpy on the climb through a logged area but it's not bad at all.

  73. #73
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    Dusty AF, moondust everywhere, trails feel blown out and need rain!

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilson1417 View Post
    Dusty AF, moondust everywhere, trails feel blown out and need rain!
    The road rash on my legs agrees one hundred percent...

  75. #75
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    Embrace the suck. It's always blown out and dusty this time of year. Soon it will be sublime. Monsoons are forecast to arrive by July 4th.

    Flagstaff trail conditions.-sunset-send.jpg

  76. #76
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    Hello all! My GF and I will be in Flagstaff for the next week. What trails should we ride?

    My gf is a total noob but a great uphill peddler and willing to try any trail within the beginner/intermediate trail rating. She will let me shuttle, shuttle me, let me ride solo but the plan is to ride together for the majority of the time. So, some nice smooth singletrack would be great!

    What loops would you guys recommend? Shuttle rides? 2-4 hours max duration? Maximum 3k of climbing?

    If you guys can recommend of a place to camp as well. Thanks!

  77. #77
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    Camp here....and remember, NO FIRES please:

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/35...4d-111.6318761

    For your together rides, suggest some mix of the AZT, Schultz Creek and Moto as a loop. Also suggest you both head over and ride the AZT from Aspen Corner on Snowbowl road, north to FR418 and back. If you want a really long ride and don't mind climbing, then ride from your campsite on the AZT west, climb it to Snowbowl and all the way to FR418 and then back. Lastly, you can do an around the Mountain ride from your campsite, doing a CW loop around Elden.

    For shuttle rides, I really can't recommend anything since the road to the top of Elden is closed right now and some of the stuff you would probably want to hit alone is within that zone (or it's burned) and I would not recommend shuttling anything else. You of course could force a shuttle on some lesser trails, but god kills a kitten each time that happens....so you'll have that weighing on your soul.

    Use Trailforks as your guide for more advanced, solo rides within close proximity to where you camp...it's pretty good for planning what you are asking for.




  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimphatty View Post
    Hello all! My GF and I will be in Flagstaff for the next week. What trails should we ride?

    My gf is a total noob but a great uphill peddler and willing to try any trail within the beginner/intermediate trail rating. She will let me shuttle, shuttle me, let me ride solo but the plan is to ride together for the majority of the time. So, some nice smooth singletrack would be great!

    What loops would you guys recommend? Shuttle rides? 2-4 hours max duration? Maximum 3k of climbing?

    If you guys can recommend of a place to camp as well. Thanks!

    I'd advise stopping at Walmart to get some supplies and then keep on driving up to Colorado. This place is beat.

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimphatty View Post
    Hello all! My GF and I will be in Flagstaff for the next week. What trails should we ride?

    My gf is a total noob but a great uphill peddler and willing to try any trail within the beginner/intermediate trail rating. She will let me shuttle, shuttle me, let me ride solo but the plan is to ride together for the majority of the time. So, some nice smooth singletrack would be great!

    What loops would you guys recommend? Shuttle rides? 2-4 hours max duration? Maximum 3k of climbing?

    If you guys can recommend of a place to camp as well. Thanks!
    Not to go off topic for this thread, I'd consider spending a few days in Prescott too for variety and better trail conditions. Flagstaff was super blown-out more than a month ago, surprising considering the greater amount of moisture they had from snow late season. My theory is it's just how the trails are built here vs in Prescott -- pretty easy for a fall-line trail to become a big line of braking bumps from all of the skidding. It's maybe 5 degrees hotter down here, so plan accordingly, but it's not that bad. Plenty of camping.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafekett View Post
    Not to go off topic for this thread, I'd consider spending a few days in Prescott too for variety and better trail conditions. Flagstaff was super blown-out more than a month ago, surprising considering the greater amount of moisture they had from snow late season. My theory is it's just how the trails are built here vs in Prescott -- pretty easy for a fall-line trail to become a big line of braking bumps from all of the skidding. It's maybe 5 degrees hotter down here, so plan accordingly, but it's not that bad. Plenty of camping.
    Great idea. I think that's what we will do. 2 days in Flagstaff and 3 days in Prescott. Any trails you recommend for us? Any camping spots? Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    I'd advise stopping at Walmart to get some supplies and then keep on driving up to Colorado. This place is beat.
    I've been wanting to get out to Colorado so badly! Durango?

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    I'd advise stopping at Walmart to get some supplies and then keep on driving up to Colorado. This place is beat.
    It looks to have gotten a lot of riding on it of late. Now for those who can't make it out to CO and need to stay close. The Highline trail over outside of Payson is riding STELLAR right now. Will get worse once the Monsoon's hit. But you have to put up with some route planning and its no where NEAR what Flag offers. But its fun riding and cool temps.

  82. #82
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    The dispersed camping is a little different here than in Flag/Coconino NF, Flag is no camping in city limits, free-for-all otherwise, here in Prescott we have designated spots in the immediate area of town. https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...eprd746325.pdf is your resource on where the designated spots are; you won't get your pick of the litter but will have plenty of options on the weekdays, it will be more full on weekends. I personally think the spots off Thumb Butte Loop Road and 51 are the best in terms of easy access and trail connections from your camp spot. There are a lot of good routes starting at White Rock Trailhead, which is at the bottom of Thumb Butte Loop Rd. You could ride there from camp, but the route depends on how far up the mountain you are. To suggest a few loops from there: 318 (West) -> 325 (Firewater) -> Willow Creek -> Willy Nilly -> Vista -> West Side Story -> Russ T. Fender -> Missing Link (if you want tech, or stay on Russ T) -> 332 (Javelina) -> 318 back. Add more miles with loops on Tatanka, Tunnel Vision, Juniper Gate, all of the stuff in that area is really fun XC singletrack. Another route, which is more big climb, big descent oriented, would be to go up Thumb Butte Loop Road to the Overlook (366 Sierra Prieta on Trailforks), and drop down from there on 366 -> 9401J -> 327 -> 322 -> 392. It does not sound like your wife would like 9401J, it's a little steep and loose. I usually do a few laps of this, mixing in some shorter climbs up Thumb Butte Loop Road and descents down Moto trail. It's hard to follow a route if you're new in town here, lots of intersections, but almost all of trails are fun and very few are soul crushing so it's hard to go wrong.

    It also sounds like your GF would really enjoy some of the riding off Walker Road -- Trail 62 (Ranch), 305 (Homestead), and Hoot Owl are some good options over there. These are all pretty smooth trails. There's dispersed camping there too (see brochure, Bannie Mine Rd and Enchanted Forest Tr) but I don't go over there enough to speak to whether you have a good chance of getting a spot. I ride up Thumb Butte at least 5 times a week on the weekdays and weekends so I have a pretty good feel for how easy it is to get a spot up there.

    All the trails I mentioned are on Trailforks and I tried to use the same names they have there

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by rafekett View Post
    The dispersed camping is a little different here than in Flag/Coconino NF, Flag is no camping in city limits, free-for-all otherwise, here in Prescott we have designated spots in the immediate area of town. https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE...eprd746325.pdf is your resource on where the designated spots are; you won't get your pick of the litter but will have plenty of options on the weekdays, it will be more full on weekends. I personally think the spots off Thumb Butte Loop Road and 51 are the best in terms of easy access and trail connections from your camp spot. There are a lot of good routes starting at White Rock Trailhead, which is at the bottom of Thumb Butte Loop Rd. You could ride there from camp, but the route depends on how far up the mountain you are. To suggest a few loops from there: 318 (West) -> 325 (Firewater) -> Willow Creek -> Willy Nilly -> Vista -> West Side Story -> Russ T. Fender -> Missing Link (if you want tech, or stay on Russ T) -> 332 (Javelina) -> 318 back. Add more miles with loops on Tatanka, Tunnel Vision, Juniper Gate, all of the stuff in that area is really fun XC singletrack. Another route, which is more big climb, big descent oriented, would be to go up Thumb Butte Loop Road to the Overlook (366 Sierra Prieta on Trailforks), and drop down from there on 366 -> 9401J -> 327 -> 322 -> 392. It does not sound like your wife would like 9401J, it's a little steep and loose. I usually do a few laps of this, mixing in some shorter climbs up Thumb Butte Loop Road and descents down Moto trail. It's hard to follow a route if you're new in town here, lots of intersections, but almost all of trails are fun and very few are soul crushing so it's hard to go wrong.

    It also sounds like your GF would really enjoy some of the riding off Walker Road -- Trail 62 (Ranch), 305 (Homestead), and Hoot Owl are some good options over there. These are all pretty smooth trails. There's dispersed camping there too (see brochure, Bannie Mine Rd and Enchanted Forest Tr) but I don't go over there enough to speak to whether you have a good chance of getting a spot. I ride up Thumb Butte at least 5 times a week on the weekdays and weekends so I have a pretty good feel for how easy it is to get a spot up there.

    All the trails I mentioned are on Trailforks and I tried to use the same names they have there
    Thank you so much. You are the man.

    Quote Originally Posted by northernlights View Post
    It looks to have gotten a lot of riding on it of late. Now for those who can't make it out to CO and need to stay close. The Highline trail over outside of Payson is riding STELLAR right now. Will get worse once the Monsoon's hit. But you have to put up with some route planning and its no where NEAR what Flag offers. But its fun riding and cool temps.
    Do you know where I could camp out there?

  84. #84
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    Speaking of trail conditions....I'm well familiar with the moon-dust days of June and the blow out nature of things before the summer storms hit....but things are bad this year. I have not seen Schultz in worse shape as I have this year. It's now something to be avoided as a finisher to a ride. The last few miles (the newest re-route) are more like riding the old rocky ridge....square/angular edges all over the place with slow move terrain, g-outs, corner blowouts, braided alt lines where they don't make sense, rubble all over the place ranging from baby head through golf ball gardens.

    I know this is nothing new....I know this is just a gripe....I know our trails are in disrepair and were designed back in the day and that ole' school jank was how things were done....but even Schultz is getting crappier than it's ever been in my memory. If the forest closes for the next few weeks due to arsonists and fire potential, I'm not really going to shed a tear this year. Perhaps we should look at these final weeks before the summer rain phase kicks in just like we do mud season and just stay off the trails and convince land managers to enact a wholesale closure of the forests from the Tuesday after memorial day through the first rains. Riding out there right now is type-A fun.....and I'm the kind of guy who likes that crap....and It's wearing pretty thin.

    The only thing that seems to be holding up well is the stuff put in by the fairies over the past 5 years. The switchbacks on Hobbit Forest are still kick ass and have weathered just fine. Perhaps it's the lesser traffic that that section of trail get's. Perhaps Schultz is blown out because of all the kittens that god is killing these days. I dunno....it seems like things are being loved to death with no in-kind action to mitigate things. I know this is nothing new, it just seems more apparent right now.

    Queue rockman's call to arms to help out on trail days......




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    I agree with Maad. I tend to stay away from Elden during the summer, but out of state friends have me riding out there lately. Between the thinning and just the amount of traffic on the trails by all the users, so much work is needed. Thereís so much going on out there. Where did that jump come from on AZT right before Kentucky Waterfall? Those lines coming down the side from Fort Valley as you connect to Schultz (looks like the FS cut down trees to block those lines). Not to mention Lost Dog that seems to be very popular. Looks like people are getting tired of waiting around for something to happen. When is the MEDL project kicking off?

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdcatnau View Post
    I agree with Maad. I tend to stay away from Elden during the summer, but out of state friends have me riding out there lately. Between the thinning and just the amount of traffic on the trails by all the users, so much work is needed. Thereís so much going on out there. Where did that jump come from on AZT right before Kentucky Waterfall? Those lines coming down the side from Fort Valley as you connect to Schultz (looks like the FS cut down trees to block those lines). Not to mention Lost Dog that seems to be very popular. Looks like people are getting tired of waiting around for something to happen. When is the MEDL project kicking off?
    FS closed that cheater line off Chimney down to Schultz. Agreed, folks are starved for content and finding the current system lacking. Besides Lost Dog being pushed up past the pipeline the City and Lowell are not happy with the new trail Hot Pockets on Observatory Mesa built this spring. Several folks were cited for illegal trail building on a another DH trail with an appearance to appear in court sometime in July.

    The lowermost Schultz reroute will be done once we get some rain. There's a couple of rock projects to wrap on that one but they need power tools. Expect a reroute of lower Moto to mitigate obliteration of the trail by thinning but that's probably not happening until next spring. The word from ACE is Heart will be done in 3 week max. It's dope. Check it. As for MEDL the new Proposed Action should be out for public comment in 2-3 weeks. Hopefully there will be a lot in there for the biking community to get enthused about.

    Anyhow, some stuff going on but Covid killed FBO's volunteer event schedule for the season. Trail Faeries have been out and most recently rebuilt drains and did tread maintenance on Sunset above Schultz Tank in prep for rain. One of these days.

  87. #87
    The .05 percent
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    Raining on the mountain currently.

  88. #88
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    Its a downpour on the south side of town right now!

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Anyhow, some stuff going on but Covid killed FBO's volunteer event schedule for the season. Trail Faeries have been out and most recently rebuilt drains and did tread maintenance on Sunset above Schultz Tank in prep for rain. One of these days.
    Where were the trail days that got cancelled?

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonderosaT View Post
    Where were the trail days that got cancelled?
    This is what we cooked up with the FS for this season:

    Date Trail Meeting Location

    4/25 Little Elden Sandy Seep TH
    5/30 Rocky Ridge Schultz Y
    6/6 Schultz Creek Schultz Y National Trails Day
    6/20 Sunset Trail Sunset TH
    7/18 AZT Connector 420rd Limited parking.
    8/8 Rocky Ridge Lower Oldham TH
    8/22 Arizona Trail Snowbowl Rd Tread repair on the middle section below Aspen Corner
    9/19 Upper Moto F.P. Rd Campsite 11? PvPvHvB
    10/10 Arizona Trail Aspen Corner Close braids and clean the drains installed in 2019
    10/24 Little Bear or Soldiers


    Trail Faeries finished off the Little Elden realignment and also took care of some of the problem sections on Little Bear and are currently working on the AZT connector. Always open to suggestions.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    This is what we cooked up with the FS for this season:

    Date Trail Meeting Location

    4/25 Little Elden Sandy Seep TH
    5/30 Rocky Ridge Schultz Y
    6/6 Schultz Creek Schultz Y National Trails Day
    6/20 Sunset Trail Sunset TH
    7/18 AZT Connector 420rd Limited parking.
    8/8 Rocky Ridge Lower Oldham TH
    8/22 Arizona Trail Snowbowl Rd Tread repair on the middle section below Aspen Corner
    9/19 Upper Moto F.P. Rd Campsite 11? PvPvHvB
    10/10 Arizona Trail Aspen Corner Close braids and clean the drains installed in 2019
    10/24 Little Bear or Soldiers


    Trail Faeries finished off the Little Elden realignment and also took care of some of the problem sections on Little Bear and are currently working on the AZT connector. Always open to suggestions.
    Little Bear could definitely use some love. A lot of loose rocks and shale on the trail. Will the FS ever try to restore the burned area there?

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by PonderosaT View Post
    Little Bear could definitely use some love. A lot of loose rocks and shale on the trail. Will the FS ever try to restore the burned area there?
    Not sure what you mean by restoration? Plenty of work like mulching and re-seeding was done on the slopes surrounding Little Bear in the burn scar. The trail didn't reopen until 2016 and that required a heroic effort. We did get out about a month ago to build a crib wall and also raked about a mile of rubble off the tread. But yeah it could use a lot more love than that. The Russian thistle is a problem as well. That shyte is nasty.

  93. #93
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    Friday was super sick. Like super rad. Sat was pretty alright. Today was dusty. Next week is gonna be bad. Real real bad. And hot.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    Friday was super sick. Like super rad. Sat was pretty alright. Today was dusty. Next week is gonna be bad. Real real bad. And hot.
    Pretty accurate. Next week really hot, no fire please.👍🏿

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