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  1. #1
    Ahhh the pain....
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    e-bikes legal in PMP?

    out in PMP today, SE from the 40th street TH, saw an old dude rolling an e-bike...small but wide tires (20"?), and leather saddle bags...lol... at first I was like, WTF! but then figured having him roll around on those beat up trails only did good and further bed in some good lines.
    Legal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    out in PMP today, SE from the 40th street TH, saw an old dude rolling an e-bike...small but wide tires (20"?), and leather saddle bags...lol... at first I was like, WTF! but then figured having him roll around on those beat up trails only did good and further bed in some good lines.
    Legal?
    Ray thanks for giving an old dude some slack. What age do you consider old?

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    Not legal. Certainly doesn't stop people at any trail system I've been to. I've seen ebikes at FINS, Phoenix Mountain Preserve, Browns Ranch, Hawes, Somo, you name it.

    Last sighting was actually around the same spot you mention, and also an older rider. While I'm not a fan of folks who can't follow simple rules, I don't think I'd cry if they changed those rules to allow ebikes officially. I'm not winning any Strava KOMs on climbs anyway. =)

    For me, the jackasses who keep 'fixing' trails ruin the place far more than any schmoe on an e-bike.

  4. #4
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    Here is an email I got from the PMP Park Manager. Exact quote.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks for taking the time to ask about ebikes in the Phoenix mountain parks and preserves.

    Earlier in the year, a bill was passed allowing ebikes, Class 1 & 2 only, the same legal status as mountain bikes or bicycles in the State of Arizona. The bill does allows land managers the option of posting regulations against the use of ebikes on trails.

    At this point the City of Phoenix Parks Board has not yet made a decision on whether to allow or ban ebikes on park trails. Legally, ebikes are allowed unless the land managers opt to not allow them, so technically, ebikes are allowed at this point. Parks Board may not make a decision right away, but may opt for a trial period in which to gather data and determine the best action to take based on that data.

    So short answer – yes for now.

    If you aren’t familiar with Classes, Class one is pedal assist up to 20 mph, and Class two is pedal and throttle assist to 20 mph. Class three is still considered a motorized vehicle as it assists to speeds up to 28 mph or greater.

    Thanks again, and happy riding!

    Dan Gronseth, Park Manager
    South Mountain Park
    Phoenix Parks and Recreation Department
    Natural Resources Division
    602-495-0204

  5. #5
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    This is awesome 😎 ebike technology has come along way and these things Rip now

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    This is awesome 😎 ebike technology has come along way and these things Rip now
    Not sure about the Rip part for Class 1 & 2? It would be nice if the preserves were to have a notice that Ebikes are being evaluated by the landmanager and riding in an extra courteous manner was important during this trial period.

    The shops were the Ebikes are sold should also communicate the courteous operation.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    out in PMP today, SE from the 40th street TH, saw an old dude rolling an e-bike...small but wide tires (20"?), and leather saddle bags...lol... at first I was like, WTF! but then figured having him roll around on those beat up trails only did good and further bed in some good lines.
    Legal?
    Looks like a new Harley Ebike prototype in the wild....

  8. #8
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    These are looking sweet
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails e-bikes legal in PMP?-f1bab854-5076-4b48-a243-e0eeea940e3d.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    These are looking sweet
    Can someone explain why MTBR members post Ebike pictures of Ebikes that will never be allowed on the non motorized trails that Class 1 Ebikes will someday be allowed on or are already? There must be a simple explanation.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Can someone explain why MTBR members post Ebike pictures of Ebikes that will never be allowed on the non motorized trails that Class 1 Ebikes will someday be allowed on or are already? There must be a simple explanation.
    That thing is pretty bad ass no??

  11. #11
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    Dan is a great guy and I've known him for years. SoMo is in good hands!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Can someone explain why MTBR members post Ebike pictures of Ebikes that will never be allowed on the non motorized trails that Class 1 Ebikes will someday be allowed on or are already? There must be a simple explanation.
    Why? Because once ebikes are allowed on standard trails, every manner of ebike will be out on the trails. There are already mods available for Class 1 bikes on the market that push their speeds well over what is legal for their classification. No riding area has the staffing necessary to verify if people are riding 20 mph capable Class 1 ebikes or ebikes capable of 40 mph and up.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    Why? Because once ebikes are allowed on standard trails, every manner of ebike will be out on the trails. There are already mods available for Class 1 bikes on the market that push their speeds well over what is legal for their classification. No riding area has the staffing necessary to verify if people are riding 20 mph capable Class 1 ebikes or ebikes capable of 40 mph and up.
    k2 you are always so negative about Ebikes. I doubt many Class 1 Ebikers are going to be moding their bikes. The Ebike reality is here to stay. You can run around in circles flappy your lips and arms and it ain’t going to stop it from happening. I feel sorry for you and those that think like you. That same group were all negative about all the new user created trails in Sedona. Well the USFS has decided all those trails were a good thing. You need to form a more positive attitude. You would sleep better at night.

  14. #14
    Bicycles aren't motorized
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    k2 you are always so negative about Ebikes. I doubt many Class 1 Ebikers are going to be moding their bikes. The Ebike reality is here to stay. You can run around in circles flappy your lips and arms and it ain’t going to stop it from happening. I feel sorry for you and those that think like you. That same group were all negative about all the new user created trails in Sedona. Well the USFS has decided all those trails were a good thing. You need to form a more positive attitude. You would sleep better at night.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by k2rider1964 View Post
    Why? Because once ebikes are allowed on standard trails, every manner of ebike will be out on the trails. There are already mods available for Class 1 bikes on the market that push their speeds well over what is legal for their classification. No riding area has the staffing necessary to verify if people are riding 20 mph capable Class 1 ebikes or ebikes capable of 40 mph and up.
    Going to 100% agree with this. I’ve made my grudging peace with Class 1 eBikes. I’m very skeptical that class 2 is in our best interest as cyclists. Mod kits are inevitable. The ‘slippery slope’ argument is already happening.

    SB2- it doesn’t matter that ‘many class 1 eBike riders won’t midify’ their eBikes. All it takes is a few, crossing paths with the wrong person, and it ruins it for everyone. All it takes is a few who bring modified class 2 bikes or straight-up class 3’s who can literally blast up the T100 main trail out of Dreamy Draw, and it all goes south. This is how we lose access.
    Don’t modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    Going to 100% agree with this. I’ve made my grudging peace with Class 1 eBikes. I’m very skeptical that class 2 is in our best interest as cyclists. Mod kits are inevitable. The ‘slippery slope’ argument is already happening.

    SB2- it doesn’t matter that ‘many class 1 eBike riders won’t midify’ their eBikes. All it takes is a few, crossing paths with the wrong person, and it ruins it for everyone. All it takes is a few who bring modified class 2 bikes or straight-up class 3’s who can literally blast up the T100 main trail out of Dreamy Draw, and it all goes south. This is how we lose access.
    how to bikes lose access when its obviously an ebike causing the problem? Sounds like ebiks lose access. they are not allowed in Scottsdale's Preserve.
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  17. #17
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    Because only cyclists differentiate eBike from ‘real bike’. To the hiker or equestrian that just got scared sh!tless by a two-wheeled vehicle with a guy in a bicycle helmet atop it, it’s a bicycle, going 20+ mph, and it’s a danger to foot traffic, children, horses and dogs.
    Don’t modify the trail to match your skills, modify your skills to match the trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    how to bikes lose access when its obviously an ebike causing the problem? Sounds like ebiks lose access. they are not allowed in Scottsdale's Preserve.
    chollabal I agree with you 100%. It is Ebikers who will loose access not mountain bikers. Thanks for being a voice of reason.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    how to bikes lose access when its obviously an ebike causing the problem? Sounds like ebiks lose access. they are not allowed in Scottsdale's Preserve.
    chollabal I agree with you 100%. It is Ebikers who will loose access not mountain bikers. Thanks for being a voice of reason.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RajunCajun44 View Post
    Here is an email I got from the PMP Park Manager. Exact quote.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks for taking the time to ask about ebikes in the Phoenix mountain parks and preserves.

    Earlier in the year, a bill was passed allowing ebikes, Class 1 & 2 only, the same legal status as mountain bikes or bicycles in the State of Arizona. The bill does allows land managers the option of posting regulations against the use of ebikes on trails.

    At this point the City of Phoenix Parks Board has not yet made a decision on whether to allow or ban ebikes on park trails. Legally, ebikes are allowed unless the land managers opt to not allow them, so technically, ebikes are allowed at this point. Parks Board may not make a decision right away, but may opt for a trial period in which to gather data and determine the best action to take based on that data.

    So short answer – yes for now.

    If you aren’t familiar with Classes, Class one is pedal assist up to 20 mph, and Class two is pedal and throttle assist to 20 mph. Class three is still considered a motorized vehicle as it assists to speeds up to 28 mph or greater.

    Thanks again, and happy riding!

    Dan Gronseth, Park Manager
    South Mountain Park
    Phoenix Parks and Recreation Department
    Natural Resources Division
    602-495-0204
    I for one will write Dan and other officials to ban outright any motor vehicles on non-motor trails. Ebikes are simply motor bikes and should be banned regardless of class or reason for use on non-motorized trails. Thanks for the info so that I can contact them and give my concern.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    Because only cyclists differentiate eBike from ‘real bike’. To the hiker or equestrian that just got scared sh!tless by a two-wheeled vehicle with a guy in a bicycle helmet atop it, it’s a bicycle, going 20+ mph, and it’s a danger to foot traffic, children, horses and dogs.

    Yeah, this.

    It can already be hard for non bikers to tell an ebike from a big travel pedal bike due to beefy carbon frames that can easily hide batteries. Any two wheeled vehicle that pisses off other trail users is going to be called a “bike”.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    Because only cyclists differentiate eBike from ‘real bike’. To the hiker or equestrian that just got scared sh!tless by a two-wheeled vehicle with a guy in a bicycle helmet atop it, it’s a bicycle, going 20+ mph, and it’s a danger to foot traffic, children, horses and dogs.
    Random are you saying Ebikers ride their Ebikes at 20 Mph past all trail users. Do they wait to see a trail user and speed up to 20 Mph, so they can piss them off? You Ebike haters are obsessed with Fake News.

  23. #23
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    Anecdotally, I encounter at least 1 ebiker poaching our local trails every week. At least. Almost every one of them I've talked with has gleefully told me how they've already modified their ebike with a "dongle" of some sort, adding power. Also, almost every single one has been aware that they're poaching. They just hope they don't get caught, or bank on the hope that no one who knows better will turn them in. Depending on the attitude they take with me, they either get a pleasant, but firm and informative conversation, or...they get turned in and soon after receive a $600 ticket in the mail.

    I have had many conversations with our local BLM field office and have been told that they do not have the resources to police the different kinds or classes of ebike. They will never lift the ban and will continue to lump them in with all motorized vehicles. They have encouraged local riders to help spread the word and to help "police" our trails. We have also been told, matter of factly, that if it becomes a problem on trails, they may have to close them to all two wheeled traffic until it can be brought under control.

    Ebikes are the trail plague of our times.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Random are you saying Ebikers ride their Ebikes at 20 Mph past all trail users. Do they wait to see a trail user and speed up to 20 Mph, so they can piss them off? You Ebike haters are obsessed with Fake News.
    I’m not the least bit surprised that you’re being an intentionally obtuse jackwad.

    Sure. I’ll play along. I don’t think ‘every’ ebike rider will speed up to max speed, but I sure as hell don’t every ebike rider will be courteous and slow down either. Class 2 eBikes with throttles are an abomination and a detriment to our access as a ‘wheeled’ user group. It takes 5 minutes on the internet to learn how to hack the circuitry and make a battery-powered cycle go 20mph right up the middle of T100. Cyclists have enough trouble policing ourselves (I saw several interactions this morning riding T100 from Shea to Tatum and back. We don’t need another user group ‘speaking for us’ in a negative light.
    I think eBikes are awesome on the street. I am unashamedly an ebike hater when it comes to trails.

  25. #25
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    They should put a bounty on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    I’m not the least bit surprised that you’re being an intentionally obtuse jackwad.

    Sure. I’ll play along. I don’t think ‘every’ ebike rider will speed up to max speed, but I sure as hell don’t every ebike rider will be courteous and slow down either. Class 2 eBikes with throttles are an abomination and a detriment to our access as a ‘wheeled’ user group. It takes 5 minutes on the internet to learn how to hack the circuitry and make a battery-powered cycle go 20mph right up the middle of T100. Cyclists have enough trouble policing ourselves (I saw several interactions this morning riding T100 from Shea to Tatum and back. We don’t need another user group ‘speaking for us’ in a negative light.
    I think eBikes are awesome on the street. I am unashamedly an ebike hater when it comes to trails.
    Is this so called bad behavior only in the Phoenix area or is it the whole country? I have been riding Ebikes a long time and I don’t see the kind of behavior you are talking about.

    Are you saying the users riding the trails in the town of Bentonville are being run down by Ebikers riding Ebikes?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TacoBeer View Post
    I for one will write Dan and other officials to ban outright any motor vehicles on non-motor trails. Ebikes are simply motor bikes and should be banned regardless of class or reason for use on non-motorized trails. Thanks for the info so that I can contact them and give my concern.
    You mad bro or nah?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Anecdotally, I encounter at least 1 ebiker poaching our local trails every week. At least. Almost every one of them I've talked with has gleefully told me how they've already modified their ebike with a "dongle" of some sort, adding power. Also, almost every single one has been aware that they're poaching. They just hope they don't get caught, or bank on the hope that no one who knows better will turn them in. Depending on the attitude they take with me, they either get a pleasant, but firm and informative conversation, or...they get turned in and soon after receive a $600 ticket in the mail.

    I have had many conversations with our local BLM field office and have been told that they do not have the resources to police the different kinds or classes of ebike. They will never lift the ban and will continue to lump them in with all motorized vehicles. They have encouraged local riders to help spread the word and to help "police" our trails. We have also been told, matter of factly, that if it becomes a problem on trails, they may have to close them to all two wheeled traffic until it can be brought under control.

    Ebikes are the trail plague of our times.

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    A plaque of our times? Really bro? It upsets you that much bro?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    Anecdotally, I encounter at least 1 ebiker poaching our local trails every week. At least. Almost every one of them I've talked with has gleefully told me how they've already modified their ebike with a "dongle" of some sort, adding power. Also, almost every single one has been aware that they're poaching. They just hope they don't get caught, or bank on the hope that no one who knows better will turn them in. Depending on the attitude they take with me, they either get a pleasant, but firm and informative conversation, or...they get turned in and soon after receive a $600 ticket in the mail.

    I have had many conversations with our local BLM field office and have been told that they do not have the resources to police the different kinds or classes of ebike. They will never lift the ban and will continue to lump them in with all motorized vehicles. They have encouraged local riders to help spread the word and to help "police" our trails. We have also been told, matter of factly, that if it becomes a problem on trails, they may have to close them to all two wheeled traffic until it can be brought under control.

    Ebikes are the trail plague of our times.

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    $600 ticket? That would get someone's attention. How do you get names and addresses so the feds know where to send it? And doesn't a LEO need to witness a violation to issue a citation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    $600 ticket? That would get someone's attention. How do you get names and addresses so the feds know where to send it? And doesn't a LEO need to witness a violation to issue a citation.
    $600 ticket for enjoying nature on a free energy device? Come at me bro..

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    $600 ticket for enjoying nature on a free energy device? Come at me bro..



    Energy isn't "free" by any measure. Nice troll though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    $600 ticket? That would get someone's attention. How do you get names and addresses so the feds know where to send it? And doesn't a LEO need to witness a violation to issue a citation.
    It does take a perfect storm for the ticket to stick. The Leo's have empowered us and use our trained judgement on the trail. Next, we take a picture of the offender in the act. Next, we have to get a picture of their car with a license plate. That can only be done if you know which car is theirs. I've only had to do this twice and each time they got a ticket in the mail. One dude got two of them. $1200 for a weekend of poaching trails. I hope it was worth it. His plate was ironic "hiker".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    A plaque of our times? Really bro? It upsets you that much bro?
    Big difference between plague and plaque. Do try to keep up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    $600 ticket for enjoying nature on a free energy device? Come at me bro..
    "Free energy"? I'm thinking you don't know what you're arguing here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Energy isn't "free" by any measure. Nice troll though.
    Umm energy is totally free bro

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    Umm energy is totally free bro
    So now you've posted on MTBR 27 times. You've contributed nothing and written bro at least as many times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    "Free energy"? I'm thinking you don't know what you're arguing here.

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    Actually I’m pretty sure do. Paying for energy is a scam and so is global warming

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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    ........ they are not allowed in Scottsdale's Preserve.
    Unfortunately, even though they aren't 'allowed' in the Scottsdale Preserve they are still there. One was in a group...only a biker would have even noticed. The other was solo and didn't seem to concerned about trail etiquette.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    So now you've posted on MTBR 27 times. You've contributed nothing and written bro at least as many times.

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    Bro

  40. #40
    Ahhh the pain....
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    Interesting that "come on me bro" is the alter-ego of trail dick and switchblade2....
    bro...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Interesting that "come on me bro" is the alter-ego of trail dick and switchblade2....
    bro...


    Same rapid fire questions posing as an answer too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Same rapid fire questions posing as an answer too.
    Also sound like slipping jimmy. The throwing hands guy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Interesting that "come on me bro" is the alter-ego of trail dick and switchblade2....
    bro...
    The government is starting fires in California with direct energy weapons and you want to ban ebikes

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARandomBiker View Post
    Because only cyclists differentiate eBike from ‘real bike’. To the hiker or equestrian that just got scared sh!tless by a two-wheeled vehicle with a guy in a bicycle helmet atop it, it’s a bicycle, going 20+ mph, and it’s a danger to foot traffic, children, horses and dogs.
    Spot on.
    It is hard enough to get some people on regular bikes to understand trail etiquette, but e-bikes will just bring out more yahoo's looking for easy thrills. All it takes is a few a-holes to piss off the wrong hikers or worse crash into some and well all get lumped in. As it stands the need to actually be able to pedal a bike keeps some of riff raff out, but take that away and throw in the yahoos that will mod their bikes for more speed and power and it will go all sideways. And because nobody can tell and e-bike from a regular bike without looking closely we will all get sh!tcanned.
    Joe
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Spot on.
    It is hard enough to get some people on regular bikes to understand trail etiquette, but e-bikes will just bring out more yahoo's looking for easy thrills. All it takes is a few a-holes to piss off the wrong hikers or worse crash into some and well all get lumped in. As it stands the need to actually be able to pedal a bike keeps some of riff raff out, but take that away and throw in the yahoos that will mod their bikes for more speed and power and it will go all sideways. And because nobody can tell and e-bike from a regular bike without looking closely we will all get sh!tcanned.
    Cool story bro

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    E bikes pedal asst allowed in Sedona ???


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    Quote Originally Posted by perryrod8440 View Post
    E bikes pedal asst allowed in Sedona ???


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    Not on the National Forest or BLM managed non-motorized trails.
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    Well I am sure when they allow them and they will just think of all the sales the local shops would have lost and dollars


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    Am I the only one that sees E bikes as kind of a mobility scooter for the elderly, or handicapped?
    Make Flagstaff RAD Again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    Not on the National Forest or BLM managed non-motorized trails.
    Maybe Deadhorse and Red Rock State Park. They could possibly be allowed up in Flagstaff onn the non National Forest land like Fort Tuthill.

    I do see them in the Sedona National Forest once in a while. I yell and scream at them that they are having a more enjoyable user experience than I am.

    Not one of the ones I have seen has caused me any anxiety.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by perryrod8440 View Post
    Well I am sure when they allow them and they will just think of all the sales the local shops would have lost and dollars


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    I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.
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    We will see reminds me of skiers thinking same about snowboarding and what is more popular now


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    Quote Originally Posted by perryrod8440 View Post
    We will see reminds me of skiers thinking same about snowboarding and what is more popular now


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    perry the majority of Ebike haters are in denial. They come up with ridiculous scenarios and think that will stop the Ebike movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Maybe Deadhorse and Red Rock State Park. They could possibly be allowed up in Flagstaff onn the non National Forest land like Fort Tuthill.

    I do see them in the Sedona National Forest once in a while. I yell and scream at them that they are having a more enjoyable user experience than I am.

    Not one of the ones I have seen has caused me any anxiety.

    Flagstaff has way more mileage of motorized use trail than non-motorized use trail.

    The drama over E-bikes like said by lifeoverdrama is kind of ridiculous. I get some of the concerns but......come on man. The strava lovers insecurities are just embarrassing.

    Besides, think of the beer to mileage ratio that can be had with an E-bike! It's rad!

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Flagstaff has way more mileage of motorized use trail than non-motorized use trail.

    The drama over E-bikes like said by lifeoverdrama is kind of ridiculous. I get some of the concerns but......come on man. The strava lovers insecurities are just embarrassing.

    Besides, think of the beer to mileage ratio that can be had with an E-bike! It's rad!
    ra thanks for the reality check. I forgot about all the motor trails in Flag.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    ra thanks for the reality check. I forgot about all the motor trails in Flag.
    Bro

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    Most of the bike/horse/hiking trails in and around Phoenix were once moto trails............

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    Quote Originally Posted by tom erb View Post
    Most of the bike/horse/hiking trails in and around Phoenix were once moto trails............
    Tom so your ok with considerate Ebikes riding on those user built motor trails. Seems logical to me.

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    Hey Everyone, I don't want to sound like the KOM but I been eMTB for about one year in AZ.. First some background.. I am 50 years old, I WAS 287lbs, I had a stroke and a number of heart attacks. I got a eMTB due to I could NOT right .10 miles without power. I got sign off to ride my bike in most locations... I had proof of my heath issues and without the eMTB I could not use the location.. We that proof and talking to the owners of the locations and making them understand what a class 2 eMTB is I got sign off.. I had to goto a number of owners and citys but I do ride at ebikes at FINS, Phoenix Mountain Preserve, Browns Ranch, White Tanks all with documented proof and sign-off. If you would like to talk more about this search "LightSport Man" on facebook or instgram and I would be more then happy to talk and get you access. Please keep in mind that I am not 100% pro eMTB. If the case is right then I say do it. I ride with a pack (non-eMTB) and I could not keep up with them without it.. Now 6 months later I am riding a Pivot Mach6 about 10 miles and if I did not have the eMTB to help me get to this point I would not be riding.. BUT I don't like seeing someone on a EMTB going up hill 19MPH. Keep the speed with everyone else and keep the MTN nice.
    Last edited by LightSportMan; 2 Days Ago at 06:56 AM. Reason: Adding more details

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    "signs off"?

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    What I did was contacted each location owner and got a letter from them giving me the ok to ride a eMTB at the location. (Sign off). I just wanted to be covered if someone was flighting it to show that I had RIGHTS TO BE ON THE TRAIL

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    You could have still ridden a normal mtb to get fit, you'd just be going slower. Saying you must have an emtb in order to get out is a fallacy.

    If a land owner is going to be ok with you riding there, that's great.

    Keep in mind that an emtb is not recognized as an ADA mobility device by either the USFS or the BLM so they wouldn't care if you did have a doctors note.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LightSportMan View Post
    Hey Everyone, I don't want to sound like the KOM but I been eMTB for about one year in AZ.. First some background.. I am 50 years old, I WAS 287lbs, I had a stroke and a number of heart attacks. I got a eMTB due to I could NOT right .10 miles without power. I got sign off to ride my bike in most locations... I had proof of my heath issues and without the eMTB I could not use the location.. We that proof and talking to the owners of the locations and making them understand what a class 2 eMTB is I got sign off.. I had to goto a number of owners and citys but I do ride at ebikes at FINS, Phoenix Mountain Preserve, Browns Ranch, White Tanks all with documented proof and sign-off. If you would like to talk more about this search "LightSport Man" on facebook or instgram and I would be more then happy to talk and get you access. Please keep in mind that I am not 100% pro eMTB. If the case is right then I say do it. I ride with a pack (non-eMTB) and I could not keep up with them without it.. Now 6 months later I am riding a Pivot Mach6 about 10 miles and if I did not have the eMTB to help me get to this point I would not be riding.. BUT I don't like seeing someone on a EMTB going up hill 19MPH. Keep the speed with everyone else and keep the MTN nice.
    Irrespective of the e-bike debate, congrats on getting yourself together with respect to fitness! Keep up the good work.

    Bob
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    Direct energy weapons the cause of California wildfires. Same technology used in 9/11.

    The cali fires are burning in all the areas the government wants depopulated for agenda 2030.

    Fallen angels and demons. End times of humanity are here. Sustainable development and agenda 2030

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    Bro... you are a nut case.

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    eff it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Bro... you are a nut case.
    Bro, am I? Why do the fires correspond with the depopulation map of agenda 2030 then bro?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    End times of humanity are here. Sustainable development and agenda 2030



    "End times" and "sustainable development" are diametrically opposed. Better work on comprehension of your cut and paste articles.
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    I'm with Silentfoe on this one. Since when did getting old become a disability and our trails wheelchair accessible? It's a sad fact of life. In order to live you eventually decline. That includes being overweight or having a heart attack. While I sympathize I draw the line in the sand with the addition of a motor. I don't care if it's pedal assist or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    "End times" and "sustainable development" are diametrically opposed. Better work on comprehension of your cut and paste articles.
    Sustainable development is going to be the end of humanity as we know it today. You can educate yourself or continue to be a donkey bro

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    Quote Originally Posted by switchblade2 View Post
    tom so your ok with considerate ebikes riding on those user built motor trails. Seems logical to me.
    yep..............

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post
    You could have still ridden a normal mtb to get fit, you'd just be going slower. Saying you must have an emtb in order to get out is a fallacy.

    If a land owner is going to be ok with you riding there, that's great.

    Keep in mind that an emtb is not recognized as an ADA mobility device by either the USFS or the BLM so they wouldn't care if you did have a doctors note.


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    In recent years, some people with mobility disabilities have begun using less traditional mobility devices such as golf cars or Segways®. These devices are called "other power-driven mobility device" (OPDMD) in the rule. OPDMD is defined in the new rules as "any mobility device powered by batteries, fuel, or other engines… that is used by individuals with mobility disabilities for the purpose of locomotion, including golf cars, electronic personal assistance mobility devices… such as the Segway® PT, or any mobility device designed to operate in areas without defined pedestrian routes, but that is not a wheelchair". When an OPDMD is being used by a person with a mobility disability, different rules apply under the ADA than when it is being used by a person without a disability

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    [QUOTE=Keep in mind that an emtb is not recognized as an ADA mobility device by either the USFS or the BLM so they wouldn't care if you did have a doctors note. [/QUOTE]

    People with disabilities have the right to choose whatever mobility device best suits their needs. For example, someone may choose to use a manual wheelchair rather than a power wheelchair because it enables her to maintain her upper body strength. Similarly, someone who is able to stand may choose to use a Segway® rather than a manual wheelchair because of the health benefits gained by standing. A facility may be required to allow a type of device that is generally prohibited when being used by someone without a disability when it is being used by a person who needs it because of a mobility disability. For example, if golf cars are generally prohibited in a park, the park may be required to allow a golf car when it is being used because of a person's mobility disability, unless there is a legitimate safety reason that it cannot be accommodated.

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    Sustainable development and weather terrorismn
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails e-bikes legal in PMP?-0d88d6a7-dbd6-4c57-8f52-c22c4904fc05.jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by LightSportMan View Post
    .. I ride with a pack (non-eMTB) and I could not keep up with them without it.. .

    Well I am 44 years old and little overweight and I can't keep up the riders on my Tuesday ride. Maybe I could keep up on a e-bike. Hmm...
    Joe
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    Sustainable development is going to be the end of humanity as we know it today. You can educate yourself or continue to be a donkey bro
    Without sustainable development Humanity will be the end of humanity as we know it. You, if you are as dumb as you come across, are proof that humanity is on the way out as we speak.
    Veni vidi velo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by life behind bars View Post
    "End times" and "sustainable development" are diametrically opposed. Better work on comprehension of your cut and paste articles.
    Prediction: Ain't gonna happen.
    Veni vidi velo!

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    Well I am 44 years old and little overweight and I can't keep up the riders on my Tuesday ride. Maybe I could keep up on a e-bike. Hmm...
    Go ahead and try that, seriously, I want to see it.
    "You either want to or you don't."

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by tom erb View Post
    People with disabilities have the right to choose whatever mobility device best suits their needs. .
    On a very serious note what is a disability? If can't climb Shaw Butte on a normal bike am I disabled? If I can, but I have to stop 4-5 times am I disabled? If can't walk up it can I take an ATV up it? The path is wide enough so why not?

    My point is there are people who are disabled and can't walk at all or walk from their car to the office if it is too far away and need help. But nobody "needs" to climb shaw butte, but I know many people who are not physically capable for all kinds of reasons., but are otherwise able bodied. Do they are have the right to drive up?

    Again this to me is a serious question
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtbyte View Post
    Go ahead and try that, seriously, I want to see it.
    you can get one too. How else are we going to keep up with Chip and Justin?
    Joe
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    Without sustainable development Humanity will be the end of humanity as we know it. You, if you are as dumb as you come across, are proof that humanity is on the way out as we speak.
    Yea ok bro. Climate change is manufactured to push an agenda. Sure humans add to the heating and cooling cycle of the planet but that’s not what’s going on with these fires.

    These fires are out of control because of geoengineering. How are cars melting and plastic isn’t? Kinda like a microwave or something.

    Humans and carbon emissions arnt the cause of any of this, it’s the biggest scam ever pulled on humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    Yea ok bro. Climate change is manufactured to push an agenda. Sure humans add to the heating and cooling cycle of the planet but that’s not what’s going on with these fires.

    These fires are out of control because of geoengineering. How are cars melting and plastic isn’t? Kinda like a microwave or something.

    Humans and carbon emissions arnt the cause of any of this, it’s the biggest scam ever pulled on humanity.
    Wearing a foil hat by any chance?
    Veni vidi velo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    Wearing a foil hat by any chance?

    You could have googled some factual information, but you choose to use your energy to mock me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    You could have googled some factual information, but you choose to use your energy to mock me.
    I did a few searches, which only confirmed my original impression that you are a wingnut. Since I don't argue with wingnuts, mocking you or ignoring you appear to be my only options.

    I was somewhat surprised that this particular conspiracy theory has been circulating for awhile. Some people will believe anything, I guess.
    Veni vidi velo!

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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    I did a few searches, which only confirmed my original impression that you are a wingnut. Since I don't argue with wingnuts, mocking you or ignoring you appear to be my only options.

    I was somewhat surprised that this particular conspiracy theory has been circulating for awhile. Some people will believe anything, I guess.

    So how you explain the anomalies in the fires? Global warming? Human and carbon based emissions? Forgot about conspiracy’s and look at the facts.

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    disabled!! can me metal or heart or stroke.. it can be something you don't see

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    thanks

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    At the time I could not make it 100 feet on a normal mtb, now I can do about 10 miles but the eMTB got me to this point

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    On a very serious note what is a disability?
    "An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silentfoe View Post

    Keep in mind that an emtb is not recognized as an ADA mobility device by either the USFS or the BLM so they wouldn't care if you did have a doctors note.
    The government loves to exempt themselves from rules they make everyone else abide by, don't they?
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    "An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment."
    So is "one or more major life activities" mountain biking? I have limitation prevents me from dunking a basketball. Does that count as disability? I think not.


    My main point is that elective activities such as mountain biking are not "major life activities" and as such being in some way not able to perform does not qualify as a disability requiring accommodation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    So is "one or more major life activities" mountain biking? I have limitation prevents me from dunking a basketball. Does that count as disability? I think not.


    My main point is that elective activities such as mountain biking are not "major life activities" and as such being in some way not able to perform does not qualify as a disability requiring accommodation.
    Take it up with the ADA; I'm just sharing information.

    I'm willing to bet though that you can't just walk in to your doctors office perfectly healthy and say you want an ADA placard because you can't dunk, so I wouldn't go getting myself in much of a tizzy about some ridiculously hokey imaginary situation like that. I'd imagine that the VAST majority of folks looking to use OPDMDs to get out on trails have legitimate disabilities, and it would take a certain special kind of person to get upset about them wanting to get out into nature. Really special.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapheadmofo View Post
    Take it up with the ADA; I'm just sharing information.

    I'm willing to bet though that you can't just walk in to your doctors office perfectly healthy and say you want an ADA placard because you can't dunk, so I wouldn't go getting myself in much of a tizzy about some ridiculously hokey imaginary situation like that. I'd imagine that the VAST majority of folks looking to use OPDMDs to get out on trails have legitimate disabilities, and it would take a certain special kind of person to get upset about them wanting to get out into nature. Really special.
    I am not questioning you. Just making a point that there is a difference being "legally disabled" and "not able". There are plenty of things I am not able to do, but that does not mean I would get a special device to make me "able" to keep up with others.
    Joe
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    I am not questioning you. Just making a point that there is a difference being "legally disabled" and "not able". There are plenty of things I am not able to do, but that does not mean I would get a special device to make me "able" to keep up with others.
    Agreed, but that's not what ADA exemptions are about; they are for 'legally' disabled folks. As far as what constitutes a 'legal' disability, that's for the lawyers and doctors to determine.
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    I am 100% disabled per the military. I also draw SS disability. I have severe PTSD and have had 2 major TBI's. That's more info about myself than I usually share. I guess I'm going to take my Yamaha 450 up on the trails...because the ADA says I can.

    Unfortunately that's not how it works. The ada can vague enough that people think an ebike qualifies. As I said before, the USFS and BLM have addressed this and they don't recognize them as approved devices. Nor do they have to allow them on trails. This is because there are other, similar areas that are open to motorized vehicles, providing a similar experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    So how you explain the anomalies in the fires? Global warming? Human and carbon based emission?
    Seriously, bro? Time-traveling aliens have been terraforming Earth to their liking for the last 200 years by dumping their radioactive waste and carbon emissions here. Just a few more degrees of warming, they move in, and we become the main entree on the inter-galactic Golden Corral buffet.

    Fact, bro! Look it up.
    Veni vidi velo!

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    Seriously, bro? Time-traveling aliens have been terraforming Earth to their liking for the last 200 years by dumping their radioactive waste and carbon emissions here. Just a few more degrees of warming, they move in, and we become the main entree on the inter-galactic Golden Corral buffet.

    Fact, bro! Look it up.
    That sounds like a wild banshee party !!

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    Seriously, bro? Time-traveling aliens have been terraforming Earth to their liking for the last 200 years by dumping their radioactive waste and carbon emissions here. Just a few more degrees of warming, they move in, and we become the main entree on the inter-galactic Golden Corral buffet.

    Fact, bro! Look it up.
    Your close actually. Aliens have been coming here for millions of years bro. Our god is really alien technology that created us as a alien/human hybrid slave race.

    They are not time travelers per say because linear time is only realative to this dimension, they are multi deminsiinal beings or fallen angles that feed off our energy in this simulation we are living in.

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