Coyote Ettiquete:- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Coyote Ettiquete:

    I have never been one to get into the hiker v biker mudslinging that goes on, but after an awkward encounter yesterday at the PMP, I had to share the story. I was coming up on a saddle that is north of the fenceline trail that takes you into the N side of 220. I made it up only to be greeted by two yippity little dogs off leash and a hiker that didn't seem to care. At first I thought, great, these little f-ers are gonna try to nip at my feet. Instead, one of them takes off in front of me towards the ridge, there is a brief pause, and then the other one starts flipping out, yipping and running towards the first. At that moment, both the hiker and myself noticed the Coyote that came over to say "Hello".

    The Hiker jumped up and took off after his dogs, most likely saving them from being the night's snack, but what he did next pissed me off. The Coyote was already in full retreat, and the Hiker, a young guy (maybe 15-19) starts throwing rocks at the Coyote. That's when I chimed in saying, "If you're dogs were on a leash, none of this would have happened." Then I said something to the effect that the Coyote is in its environment and doing what wild animals do. He then tried to justify it by saying he was recently stalked by a Coyote, and also added that that was why he carried around a stick that lookes like a short version of a Bo staff. Again, in my head I'm thinking, that could also be prevented by having dogs on a leash.

    I don't know about you, but I practice a policy that I don't just pick up a rock and throw it at every Coyote, Rattler, and Predator I come across. Had the circumstances been a case of survival, then I would understand, but it was a circumstance created by his lack of control of his dogs. Especially when it involves two annoying a%* little dogs that are no bigger than a rabbit - which Coyotes eat BTW. Coyotes are opportunists, all we can control is the opportunity. And........I'm spent.
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  2. #2
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    Too bad the Coyote didn't eat those little dogs, would have taught that hikertard a lesson. I'm not part of the Sierra Club or anything but when it comes to nature it's best to let it do it's thing. Holding his hands over his head and yelling really loud would have been effective enough.

  3. #3
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    Well if it ate the dogs the authorities would probably and kill any coyotes in the area.

    A while back on Mt. Lemmon some ladys little dog was off a leash and a mountain lion chased it down and ate it. Lady cried, and and then the local government brought in a big game hunter from New Mexico, Tucsons fond of outside help, and made a big deal of the hunt and the subsequent killing of the lion.

    Dogs still run free off of the leash allover the place, including wilderness, and they are owned by hikers, equestrians, and mtn bikers. So its not just a redneck hiker issue.

    I guess we're lucky that we dont have a dog poop problem down here like you folks up near SoMo. Though we do have some serious bovine issues.

  4. #4
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    Coyote gotta eat too. Somo ride tomorrow morn if yer interested.
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  5. #5
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    I only throw rocks at hikers...

  6. #6
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    I think if I saw a coyote I would like to chase it.
    Straight is better than flat.

  7. #7
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    Quote of Sundog"Though we do have some serious bovine issues". I seen these first hand, their everywhere I think that's why Sundog does so much rock riding, b/c the cows can't slick to slick rock so they tend not to chit there.
    I need to ride more and work less.

  8. #8
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    Wild animals need to know they should not get close to humans both for their own well being and the well being of the humans. A rock won't hurt a coyote.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by resonance4x4
    Wild animals need to know they should not get close to humans both for their own well being and the well being of the humans. A rock won't hurt a coyote.
    I'm pretty certain wild animals are well aware that humans are a danger to them.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by resonance4x4
    Wild animals need to know they should not get close to humans both for their own well being and the well being of the humans. A rock won't hurt a coyote.
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I'm pretty certain wild animals are well aware that humans are a danger to them.
    A good friend of mine lives near the 24th street trail head on the north side of SoMo the people in his neighborhood called the cops on a lady who kept feeding the Coyote's around there. She would go to a pizza or wings place and dumpster dive for wing and pizza bones to take out to the Coyote's.

    They may not be that wild anymore.
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  11. #11
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    Its a coyote! they are far from the endangered list.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pynis McDermott
    I have never been one to get into the hiker v biker mudslinging that goes on, but after an awkward encounter yesterday at the PMP, I had to share the story. I was coming up on a saddle that is north of the fenceline trail that takes you into the N side of 220. I made it up only to be greeted by two yippity little dogs off leash and a hiker that didn't seem to care. At first I thought, great, these little f-ers are gonna try to nip at my feet. Instead, one of them takes off in front of me towards the ridge, there is a brief pause, and then the other one starts flipping out, yipping and running towards the first. At that moment, both the hiker and myself noticed the Coyote that came over to say "Hello".

    The Hiker jumped up and took off after his dogs, most likely saving them from being the night's snack, but what he did next pissed me off. The Coyote was already in full retreat, and the Hiker, a young guy (maybe 15-19) starts throwing rocks at the Coyote. That's when I chimed in saying, "If you're dogs were on a leash, none of this would have happened." Then I said something to the effect that the Coyote is in its environment and doing what wild animals do. He then tried to justify it by saying he was recently stalked by a Coyote, and also added that that was why he carried around a stick that lookes like a short version of a Bo staff. Again, in my head I'm thinking, that could also be prevented by having dogs on a leash.

    I don't know about you, but I practice a policy that I don't just pick up a rock and throw it at every Coyote, Rattler, and Predator I come across. Had the circumstances been a case of survival, then I would understand, but it was a circumstance created by his lack of control of his dogs. Especially when it involves two annoying a%* little dogs that are no bigger than a rabbit - which Coyotes eat BTW. Coyotes are opportunists, all we can control is the opportunity. And........I'm spent.
    Sounds like you're well on your way to early geezer-hood.

    It is a bit funny that a young guy carries around a stick to protect himself from Coyotes. Perhaps he should be more concerned about the two-legged variety.
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  13. #13
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    They probably killed the Lion down south due to the fact that animals learn. That lion could have learned before that lady came by that people leave trash (like food trash) or have pups along for the walk- dog sushi! It is unfortunate the lion had to die, but as we venture further into the wild with our homes and chicken wings- it is inevitible.

    I had a neighbor when I lived by Cave Creek and Deer Valley who had two yip-yip dogs that lived up to thier name. Drove me f'in nuts. One day a large owl took residence in my tree- my wife took pics as I was out of town. I told her to keep it ready in case he dived down and got one of those little guys- that would have been sooooo awesome.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZTtripper
    She would .... dumpster dive for wing and pizza bones ......
    I prefer my pizza boneless.
    Now I DRIVE the short bus!!


    Help increase ShortBus' rep

  15. #15
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    A dog is a darn fine meal.
    "I tried to live always free and above board like you" Cool Hand Luke

  16. #16
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    I had a coyote for a personal trainer! When Gypsy was a puppy a coyote stalker her and me every morning. Shelby, my mature Pointer would keep watch. I had a bad shoulder and had to throw rocks at it to keep it from attacking. After 2 months of this my shoulder got better, so the personal trainer worked!
    agmtb

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I'm pretty certain wild animals are well aware that humans are a danger to them.
    Obviously not since the coyote got close enough that it was a danger to the dog. This is also further evidenced by the numerous reports of coyotes going into backyards and taking pets. I grew up in coyote country, trust me, they have little fear of humans.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    I'm pretty certain wild animals are well aware that humans are a danger to them.
    Trouble is in an unnatural environment like a city park or national park where people don't pose a danger eventually the instinct to avoid people goes away. Not sure if it's learned or naturaly selected or a combination but it clearly happens.

    I've had a coyote chase me on the trail down below Hatcher. My guess is she was defending a litter. Still it freaked me out a bit. Personally I love hearing the coyotes in the early morning or evening and would never want to see them wiped off the preserve. Still we shouldn't feed them and we should do what we can to make sure that the natural fear of people doesn't go away. It's better for them in the end.

    Here's an extreme example of what could happen over time if people are never a threat to a predator like a coyote.

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia...tack-died.html

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by resonance4x4
    Obviously not since the coyote got close enough that it was a danger to the dog. This is also further evidenced by the numerous reports of coyotes going into backyards and taking pets. I grew up in coyote country, trust me, they have little fear of humans.
    How does this prove they don't view us as a threat? Just because they have no fear does not mean they still realize a human is a foe, not a friend. I've seen many coyotes, both in the wilderness as well as in the city. For the most part, they are not a threat to us.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideandshoot

    Here's an extreme example of what could happen over time if people are never a threat to a predator like a coyote.

    http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia...tack-died.html
    At least it was only a folk singer.

  21. #21
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    I see coyotes all the time. They don't seem very scary. Beside what would happen if the dogs that were off leash came chasing you and you through rocks at them to scare them away. Lastly......those little blue bags come in handy to stick small dogs in.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    How does this prove they don't view us as a threat? Just because they have no fear does not mean they still realize a human is a foe, not a friend.
    Would you get close to a threat if you knew they would kill you? Whether they view us as friend or foe doesn't matter. What matters is they realize they should not get close to us.

  23. #23
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    you do realize....they don't have hands?




  24. #24
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    I edited my last reply a little. To clarify, I didn't say the threat was a coyote. I meant any threat. Plus, in skinny tire's question, the one I'm replying to, the threat is a human.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by resonance4x4
    Would you get close to a threat if you knew they would kill you? Whether they view us as friend or foe doesn't matter. What matters is they realize they should not get close to us.
    A coyote is going to kill me? Maybe I should purchase a lottery ticket. This may surprise you, but coyotes need to eat too.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  26. #26
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    Allow me to recap our conversation as it seems we're all getting confused about what we're asking. I never said the coyote is going to kill a human. I said a human will kill a coyote.

    Quote Originally Posted by resonance4x4
    Obviously not since the coyote got close enough that it was a danger to the dog.
    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    How does this prove they don't view us as a threat?
    Quote Originally Posted by resonance4x4
    Would you (a coyote) get close to a threat (humans) if you knew they would kill you?
    You asked how my statement proves this particular coyote does not view humans as a threat. Well, I'll ask you, if you were a coyote and knew a human will kill you if given the chance, would you get close to him or her? I'd say if the coyote viewed a human as a threat, then the coyote wouldn't get close.

    I don't know what you're getting at when you say coyotes need to eat.

  27. #27
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    even if I was starving, i wouldnt go up to a 1000 pound bull and try to take a bite...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by resonance4x4
    Allow me to recap our conversation as it seems we're all getting confused about what we're asking. I never said the coyote is going to kill a human. I said a human will kill a coyote.







    You asked how my statement proves this particular coyote does not view humans as a threat. Well, I'll ask you, if you were a coyote and knew a human will kill you if given the chance, would you get close to him or her? I'd say if the coyote viewed a human as a threat, then the coyote wouldn't get close.

    I don't know what you're getting at when you say coyotes need to eat.
    So, basically you're stating that it's okay to throw rocks at coyotes to show them where they fall in the food chain? I'm just trying to figure out exactly what your point is.
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  29. #29
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    people in new york feed the pigeons, people in the midwest feed the ducks,, why cant you bring the coyotes some of your burrito or something..

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire
    So, basically you're stating that it's okay to throw rocks at coyotes to show them where they fall in the food chain? I'm just trying to figure out exactly what your point is.
    Regarding your comments I don't have a point. I'm just answering your questions.

    Regarding the OP, I think the point in my first post is quite clear.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by resonance4x4
    Regarding the OP, I think the point in my first post is quite clear.
    Crystal apparently. That point being you agree with the actions of the dog owner.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  32. #32
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    Resonance - a bit of advice.....


  33. #33
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    Keeping dogs on leashes is pretty cruel IMHO. Getting your dog eaten might make you buck up on some obedience next time.

    The majority of you make it sound like dogs are a huge inconvienece.

    I had some tard ramble on about dog crap and his drinking water today....like I'm going to carry frozen turds around in my pack?

    People who feel the need to play animal police really need to get a life.

    I would have thrown some rocks to if those fawkers tried to get my off leash dog.

    How would you like to be on a leash?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by resonance4x4
    Obviously not since the coyote got close enough that it was a danger to the dog. This is also further evidenced by the numerous reports of coyotes going into backyards and taking pets. I grew up in coyote country, trust me, they have little fear of humans.

    Hmmm....

    The coyotes I see on the National Forest in ranch country haul a$$ in a nanosecond at the sight of a person, a person on horse or a vehicle. Same is true if they get a molecule of human scent in there nostrils.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideandshoot
    Hmmm....

    The coyotes I see on the National Forest in ranch country haul a$$ in a nanosecond at the sight of a person, a person on horse or a vehicle. Same is true if they get a molecule of human scent in there nostrils.
    That's because they're on national forest land where it's legal to shoot them. They know to stay away from humans.

  36. #36
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    I don't really have an issue with non-leashed dogs, my issue is with untrained non-leashed dogs. And unfortunately most of them seem to fall into that category. It seems like in most cases the pets have the owners trained more than the other way around.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by hikerdave
    Sounds like you're well on your way to early geezer-hood.
    This is the funniest thing I've heard in a while. You might be right, but since I am younger than 30, I still believe I'm quite a ways away from geezer hood.

    I'm just older than the douche that brings two coyote snacks to a preserve area and then lets them chase after a likely predator.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by salimoneus
    I don't really have an issue with non-leashed dogs, my issue is with untrained non-leashed dogs. And unfortunately most of them seem to fall into that category. It seems like in most cases the pets have the owners trained more than the other way around.
    I was going to reply to JRock, but this is exactly what I would have said. I don't care about a dog off a leash, I think it is awesome when I see a good trail dog following it's owner. That said, the coyote was in full retreat long before the rock was picked up and it was an unnecessary move.
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  39. #39
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    Unnecessary...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pynis McDermott
    ....it was an unnecessary move.

    Unnecessary rock throwing hurts. One time I tried to throw a rock over a creek pretty far away. My arm hurt for 2 days.

    -SS
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  40. #40
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    I just walk up and say: "Oh, I know who *YOU* are."
    b

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    I just walk up and say: "Oh, I know who *YOU* are."

    Well I didn't run OR bite you, so I guess it all turned out peachy.
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  42. #42
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    is that how you saw that interaction....you seem to have stuck around for a while.
    b

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianc
    is that how you saw that interaction....you seem to have stuck around for a while.
    Hells yeah! Who knew you would turn out to be my bestest friend, and carry my beer???
    "People do not lack strength; they lack will" (Victor Hugo)

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoyoteKis
    Hells yeah! Who knew you would turn out to be my bestest friend, and carry my beer???
    I think I did, by the way I commanded your attention.
    b

  45. #45
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    My uncle had a miniature chihuahua that went out the doggie door to go poo and a chickenhawk got hold of him. Once outside of the house, you are in the realm of the predators be it in the backyard or the trail.

    If a predator has the opportunity and the means, it will use it. Remember, a mountian lion, coyote, other outside predator don't enjoy regular feeding times like Fido does. They gotta take what comes their way when it comes their way.
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