Clipless Pedal Preferences- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
    wrecking crew
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    Clipless Pedal Preferences

    Hi all,

    I'm pondering a clipless pedal change and I am curious to see what clipless pedal preferences do you have and why you like what you like.

    Currently running SPDs with no real serious issues but want something easier to clip in to. The Times look like hookup would be a breeze as do Eggbeaters...how are they on release? I'm sure there are many different pedals options out there...how 'bout some local input?

    thanks in advance

    su ling
    ~~~

  2. #2
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    ive run spd and eggbeaters, i went back to the spd because they tend to handle a better beating, and they have very little float. the EBs cracked after a few hits on the rock and they were too loose. ive heard the times are easy to toe in, hard to get out, but when i upgrade i am going to give them a try, but thats after i have exhausted the worlds supply of spd pedals.

  3. #3
    Ride 'Til Your Knees Hurt
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    Talk to Crash about his EB experience... His left pedal broke apart while up in Sedona.

    I like Shimano SPD's myself. 959's are nice... I tried SpeedPlay Frogs and really hated them. The were hard to engage (silly light though). I've been thinking about trying the Time ATAC XS...

  4. #4
    I am Walt
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    I use mid-level Shimano SPD's. Don't know the number - 5-something's, maybe. Take a beating and keep on cleating...

    Crash won't use Times because they come from a French company..."Boycott France."
    Ride more; post less...

  5. #5
    Serial Shooter Bait
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    Spd

    SPD's because they are pretty much bullet proof. Decent platform if you happen to forget your riding shoes. I run various models of SPD (i.e. Ritchey, Wellgo, Shimano, etc) and they all pretty much work like the other. I have the 545 and 454 (the metal and vinyl cages) on two bikes that have been going for years. Pedal entry/release tension can be adjusted separately.

    In regards to the clicking in/out; have you checked the cleat? They could be worn. Also, adjust the tension on the pedal body itself.

  6. #6
    Tdub
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    Have the Time Atac Alium, Love 'em, but didn't when I first got them. YES they're easy to get into, YES they're also hard to get out of....flipping the cleat allows for an even tighter exit angle, which is where I went after riding them and beating the H*LL out of them for one year....still kickin'. Only complaint is the brass cleat's are soft, and may need replacing after about 1000 trail miles....assuming that's good.
    "What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?"-Vincent Van Gogh

  7. #7
    Shovel Ready
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    Two sets of Shimano pedals both fell apart. Went to the Time Z control and never looked back. Easy in and out and auto adjust! I hear the brass cleats wear quickly but I'm still in my first set.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  8. #8
    CrazyEye
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    I have the Mallets and really like them. It's the only ones I've use though. I like that I can unclip for the hairy sections and have nice fat pedals with very little slippage. I have ate it a couple times when trying to torque over something in to low of a gear and not unclip in time (like last night). I think that has more to do with being stubborn though...I scored them new off ebay for like $50.

  9. #9
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    I've used SPD, Eggs and Times. I didn't care for the SPD style. I like a lot of float and felt a little restricted in those. I really liked the Times but I have to stick to my guns on the Boycott France and get rid of 'em.

    I really like the Eggs except if I come unclipped on an uphill, then they're hard to snap back into. The other thing is if you don't rebuild 'em once in a while, they'll just fall apart...as evidence from CJ's post. Other than that, I dig 'em. Unless something new comes out, I'll be stickin' with 'em.

    I have several pairs and I think some spare cleats. Let me know if you wanna try 'em out on a ride. Easy enough to install.
    Why would I need more than one gear?
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  10. #10
    pedaller
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    Used to ride SPD...

    until Durtgurl turned me on to TIMEs years ago. I've been riding them ever since. I've been contemplating the Eggbeaters for their simple design but it's hard to beat the TIMEs. It took a little getting used to but what new pedals don't. I don't have ANY issues getting out of them whatsoever.

    IF you are interested in the EBs and have never ordered from Sierra Trading Post, they have a smoking deal for first time buyers - Eggbeater SLs for under $50.

    http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=222659

    FYI: If you DO want to buy them, make sure you do it when you "activate" your account. If you get out of the site and try to go back in, the cookies will prevent you from getting the deal - it happened to me
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  11. #11
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    original yellow time atac carbon's here. i've been using the same pedals for ~9 years with no issues. entry is awesome and easy since you don't have to step down into them and you can't hook the front of the cleat on anything other than what you're supposed to. float is great yet not slippery feeling. release is a breeze and you have 2 release angles available depending on which way you mount the cleat.

    i know the new versions have some adjustment available, but honestly unless these fail catastrophically i don't see that i'll ever switch, in fact i'd probably just pick up another pair off ebay for cheap. these pedals have lasted me longer than any other single part i've ever used on a mtn bike.

    check this as well...
    Last edited by 'size; 09-21-2006 at 03:25 PM.

  12. #12
    LBS
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    Time Atac

    I've riden the composite time pedals for years with no complaints.There easy in and out very low maint. I have two pair I run the old pair on the SS and a new style on the geared. I did bend one of the engagement bars on the new pedals, fixed it with a pair of pliers works fine.

  13. #13
    wrecking crew
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    nice link 'size...thanks! Guess I forgot about the search function...duh!
    ~~~

  14. #14
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    SuLing, I have been in love with Time pedals ever since I first clicked into them. In 1990 or so, I got Time road pedals and shoes. The cleats were built into the shoe. My god. Best damn road pedal/show combo ever.

    I have only used Time ATAC pedals for mtbiking. I now have the ATAC XE. I would not get the old kind, the Time ATAC Alium. They are good, but the XE or XS are the newer, improved models. XE allows you to adjust the feel of the float, but I never use it. I like the Times because they are bombproof, easy to get in and out of, and because they have both rotational and side to side float, which I think is best for the knees. My pal had knee issues with every other pedal except the Frogs, and he tried them all.
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  15. #15
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    shimano 959s here.
    I have a name for my pain and call it "dog".

  16. #16
    Large wheels & one gear
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    I use CB Candy's. I also have used Mallets. I prefer the Candy's due to the fact that they are easy to get into and out. I like how my feet can move around abit and still be clipped in. Some don't like that.....I do. I have smacked them a few times on rocks and they have held up well. I use the Candy's also because I like a small platform under my feet. The Mallets were a bit much, Eggbeaters not enough, Candy's just right. The end.
    I Never Apologize............I'm Sorry, That's Just The Way I Am.

  17. #17
    Kathleen in AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    SuLing, I have been in love with Time pedals ever since I first clicked into them. In 1990 or so, I got Time road pedals and shoes. The cleats were built into the shoe. My god. Best damn road pedal/show combo ever.

    I have only used Time ATAC pedals for mtbiking. I now have the ATAC XE. I would not get the old kind, the Time ATAC Alium. They are good, but the XE or XS are the newer, improved models. XE allows you to adjust the feel of the float, but I never use it. I like the Times because they are bombproof, easy to get in and out of, and because they have both rotational and side to side float, which I think is best for the knees. My pal had knee issues with every other pedal except the Frogs, and he tried them all.
    I've been on Time ATACS since 98 when I moved to Ohio and mud... There are no better pedals for sucky mud conditions, in my opinion. They also work darn well here in the desert. Just bought a new pair for the new 29er!! Every bike has a set - some are going on 8 years old now and still going strong.

  18. #18
    Too many Sedonuts...
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    Currently running eggbeaters that I bought about a month ago. Prior to that I've been riding Ritcheys exclusivey since 96. Like the eggbeaters because they don't require as much force as the Ritcheys to engage, and hence are also easier to disengage. Like the additional float too. Might go to the candys though, I miss having a small platform there.

  19. #19
    "Yabut"
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    SPD's

    Like most people, I use Shimano SPD's. I have some that are 16 years old!! One of the advantages is you can test ride other peoples bikes, because they probably have SPD too.

    ~Aaron~

  20. #20
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    I started with SPDs to learn the whole clipless thing. Didn't like having to keep the tension adjusted so loosely to be able to clip out quickly, and would clip out when I didn't want to.

    After a few months, tried Beaters, and returned those quickly after crashing hard a couple of times due to them not releasing when I thought they should. Plus, in the week they were on the bike, they ended up bending. NOT impressed.

    Figured I'd try the Times, and haven't looked back. Bought the el-cheapo version without the tension adjustments, and they work perfectly every time. Never let loose when they shouldn't, always let loose when they should. They aren't quite as "secure" feeling as the SPDs in my opinion, but damn do they work well. (I guess it's the added float they have over the SPDs.) Only thing I do to them is spray some white lithium grease on the cleat and pedal mechanism before each ride. I like to think it keeps the cleats from wearing so quickly, but I honestly have no idea if it does or not. It sure makes engagement/disengagement consistent though.

    EDIT: Frogs were going to be next on the list to try if the Times didn't work out, so I haven't gotten to try those. I'd love to someday, but not going to drop the cash on them when the Times work so well.
    Last edited by tried2live; 09-21-2006 at 08:34 PM.

  21. #21
    my knees hurt
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    Shimano spd's ....can't beat the durability
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  22. #22
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    I started out on Onzas. I must have had a death wish.

    I went to SPDs afterwards.

    Then switched to eggbeaters/mallets.

    I'm back with SPDs.

    I think eggbeaters are good for weight weenies looking for the most minimal pedal that will still work. In that role, I think it is ok. Even still, they develop side-to-side play, will unclip you if you hit them on rocks just right, they prevent you from exiting when you rotate your foot inwards (happens sometimes on slow-speed falls), the cleats wear MUCH faster than any other comperable pedal, the bolt that keeps the pedal body on the spindle has loosened completely on me a few times, and the mechanism is fairly easy to bend in my experience.

    CB is good about replacing the parts and sending stuff out, but in the end I just got tired of having to rebuild/repair their problems.

    There is also no tension adjustment, so you either take it or leave it.

    If I was an XC racer, I wouldn't worry about putting eggbeaters on my bike, it's a calculated trade-off and the benefit is very light weight.

    In terms of platform pedals, I think the eggbeater mechanism falls quite a bit short of the shimano equivalent (545s). The mallets were just not very reliable, suffered from all of the above problems, and I snapped two axles, required a "rolling motion" to clip back in (which sometimes didn't work and sent my foot shooting forwards). The shimano 545 with release-adjust also has the mechanism at 30 degrees to the platform when you are unclipped, but when you clip in, it lays flat. This helps with clipping in (I find it easier to find the mech with the 545s), and it also makes the mechanism lie flat and prevents slapping the mechanism into the rocks from below like can happen with the mallets, which can damage the mechanism or force you to unclip.

    In the end, I just don't think the eggbeaters are worth it for most people, not unless you are willing to make some sacrifices in terms of durability and other issues, and on the issue of the mallets; Never again, the shimano product just has so much more going for it.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  23. #23
    nobody
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    I've been full circle

    spd's - first pair of clipless. Loved everything about them except how they worked (or should I say: DIDN'T work) in mud.

    Frogs - rode with these for 3 or 4 years and really liked them. They definitely take some getting used to. The best way I can describe the initial feeling of riding with them is like standing on ice cubes. There's ton's of float and they were really easy to get in and out of.

    Time ATAC - rode these a handful of times when I was borrowing a friends bike for a couple of weeks. I thought they felt pretty solid. I never got to test them in the mud but I've been told they're much better in muck than spd's.

    spd's - recently switched back to my old shimanos after my frogs died. I'm actually digging the tight float and since I'm now living/riding in the Valley of the Sun, I don't think mud will be too much of a problem for me.
    I'm what Willis was talkin' about

  24. #24
    I am Walt
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    Quote Originally Posted by art_vandelay
    spd's - first pair of clipless. Loved everything about them except how they worked (or should I say: DIDN'T work) in mud.

    Frogs - rode with these for 3 or 4 years and really liked them. They definitely take some getting used to. The best way I can describe the initial feeling of riding with them is like standing on ice cubes. There's ton's of float and they were really easy to get in and out of.

    Time ATAC - rode these a handful of times when I was borrowing a friends bike for a couple of weeks. I thought they felt pretty solid. I never got to test them in the mud but I've been told they're much better in muck than spd's.

    spd's - recently switched back to my old shimanos after my frogs died. I'm actually digging the tight float and since I'm now living/riding in the Valley of the Sun, I don't think mud will be too much of a problem for me.
    Your sig made me laugh out loud...though Dirdir probably hasn't figured it out yet.
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  25. #25
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    Times, going on 10 years. Very solid and reliable. Super easy to clip into. Easy to clip out, once you learn their particular release move, which is pretty elastic, and allows you to put in a lot of body english in a tech section of trail without releasing. I read that if you reverse the cleats you get a crisper release, but at a loss of some side to side float.

  26. #26
    meow
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    SPD's rock

    My first clip-ins were Shimano 747's and I still have them after 10 years. I've got 2 other sets on different bikes and love them. They DO have a good degree of float, IMO. Releasing is always easy and I never pop out at inopportune moments. I rebuild them once a year and they are smooth as butta. My hubband upgraded to 959's and likes them even more. My plan is to swap mine out with his and hope he doesn't notice.

  27. #27
    Dirty Monkey
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    Hi Su.Ling~,

    Curious, why the possible switch? As for which, I have 959 SPD's, and love them. However, it really is a matter of trying some out. One nice thing, for all the grief they get, is that Performance will (unless they changed) take them back if you want a different set. A friend (Tried2live) did this. He's happy with his, as posted. A small consideration is that some shops carry Time, some CB, but all seem to carry SPD, so if a cleat is needed, etc, they likely, no matter where, have it. I even have a set of SPD cleats in my tool box, if on a ride and I or someone else needs one, I got it.

    Try some out, and might have to go thru a couple, but if the shop (Performance, or if Exhale, which you post about) will do it, try a couple different ones out. Good luck!

    Mike
    "May The Schwartz Be With You!"

  28. #28
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    Secret weapon

    Speedplay Frogs

    Super light (if that matters)

    Super float (yes, that does matter)

    Yes, like just about any other pedal out there, you have to be careful not to bang them
    on rocks.

    Good news - if you do bust/crack them, a pedal body repair kit is about $50 and since
    it's a clamshell design, you can replace half of a pedal if that's all that is needed. And if
    you're always prepared (I've been called a bit "over prepared") you can carry a half pedal
    body for the left and right sides in your camelbak (they weigh 33 grams) and make an
    on-trail repair in minutes with a single allen wrench to save any ride any where if a pedal
    has "issues".
    -- Evil Patrick

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  29. #29
    wrecking crew
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    Thanks all for all the great input! You guys/gals really put in some great comments.

    Why the possible change? Just to see what is out there that could possibly be better! I have no serious issues with the SPD's but would like to try something different out. Do alot of climbing and I like being able to clip in easily in difficult situations and sometimes I find myself hunting around trying to clip in with SPDs. I keep my pedals cleaned out and the cleats are good and it makes no difference which side I clip into, but I still find myself having to hunt around sometimes and its always right when you need to be clipped in...like just before a step-rock face or what-have-you.
    ~~~

  30. #30
    CrazyEye
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz
    Your sig made me laugh out loud...though Dirdir probably hasn't figured it out yet.
    Yeah that's good, sounds like something Mitch Hedburg would of said...

  31. #31
    Ride 'Til Your Knees Hurt
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    but I still find myself having to hunt around sometimes and its always right when you need to be clipped in...
    su.ling~, one thing you might want to try before throwing down for new pedals is different cleat positions (fore and aft). A mm or so either way might help you to find the 'sweet spot' when trying to clip in.

  32. #32
    wrecking crew
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    Quote Originally Posted by cycljunkie
    su.ling~, one thing you might want to try before throwing down for new pedals is different cleat positions (fore and aft). A mm or so either way might help you to find the 'sweet spot' when trying to clip in.
    true dat, but i have them adjusted so my feet don't hurt. A little off and they tended to strain portions of my feet...maybe I have weird feet. Like I said, no big major not liveable problems, just want to see what is out there that might be better.
    ~~~

  33. #33
    Ridin' Dirty
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    I'm using spds, shimano 545 or something like that. I don't have any complaints or issues with them. One of these days I want to try eggbeaters but they don't appear to me that they could be bashed into rocks, not that I do it on purpose. Or as Waltaz said "take a beating and keep on cleating"
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

  34. #34
    Ride 'Til Your Knees Hurt
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    just want to see what is out there that might be better.
    This sounds like a clear case of UpGrade-Itous to me...

  35. #35
    Ouch, I am hot!
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    Alright already dammit. Tell us what pedals you are getting.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  36. #36
    wrecking crew
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    Alright already dammit. Tell us what pedals you are getting.
    heheheeeeheeee...more than likely the TIME Atac XS/XE...I'm going to try some out...and I am vastly lucky to have a friend like DG who is so kindly lending me some cleat and her pedals...that are attached to her 5 spot! heeheeeheeee To Kathleen! ;-* :kiss:

    ...come to think of it, she has a nice stable of bikes with TIME pedals attached to all of them...and we are size compatible...hmmmmmmmm... That might sway anyones opinion!
    Last edited by su.ling~; 09-22-2006 at 02:59 PM.
    ~~~

  37. #37
    Meatpuppet
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    There is no better pedal than the Nashbar spd $15 special cleats included........I love 'em.

    but I am ghetto.
    My Third Eye Has A Cataract

  38. #38
    NardoSS
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    I have eggbeaters and they are great. The only problem is that the bottoms two wings are what keep the top two tight around the cleat. If you bash a rock on the bottom then you can come out on the top. They are total XC pedals. You also don't get the "snap" when you click in and out every time like you do with your shimanos. By the way, the 05 and 06 are identical save for the color of the coil spring. I called and asked the company.

    Frogs: They broke twice. The piece that keeps your ankle from turning in snaps off. I told speedplay do throw them away the second time. I would rather eat the cost of the pedals then even pay for return shipping on a sh!te pedal.

  39. #39
    nobody
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    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz
    Your sig made me laugh out loud...though Dirdir probably hasn't figured it out yet.
    I'm glad I could share the the love/hate...

    I wish I could say I came up with it but, alas, I did not. I saw it on a bumper sticker once and it was instantly burned in my brain and I couldn't think of anything better to put in my sig.
    I'm what Willis was talkin' about

  40. #40
    Meatbomb
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    Mine are Yellow.... get the Yellow ones

  41. #41
    Fragile - must be Italian
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    heheheeeeheeee...more than likely the TIME Atac XS/XE...I'm going to try some out
    Sounds like a good choice. Let us know how you like the Times.

    I ride SPD pedals and *usually* like them, but the few times they refuse to let my foot go during a crash is when I get really pissed off at 'em. I've tried all brands of SPD's -- Shitmano's, Ritchey's, Wellgo's, and now those funky looking XPedo's -- and they all exhibit that nasty trait (fine line between "unintentional unclipping" and "goddammit let my f*cking foot go!!").

    I did a little homework earlier in the year and got a lot of thumbs-up for the Time Atac's. I switched to Time's on my roadie (Time RXS) last year and I LOVE them. So maybe it's time to switch the MTB's to Time's and become a Time household.

    OTOH -- I am such a cheap bastard and SPD's are cheap pedals...so we go hand-in-hand.

    Thx...Doug

  42. #42
    I need to ride more.
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    SPD to Time back to SPD

    Tried Time Atac XS for about 10 rides and could never quite retrain myself to the different release method. Went back to SPD.

    Richard

  43. #43
    Dilberto
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    The Time ATAC Alium pedals, appear to be the best buy, for beginners. Not only can you get them for under $50/pair- but they are very secure....once you can accustom yourself to clipless. Like many of us here- practice on grass, while clipping in/out. Don't worry, these pedals are bulletproof, and can take alot of punishment.

    In XC riding- clipless is the way to go. Once all the benefits of clipless pedals are realized:

    a) maximum pedaling traction=more speed
    b) less effort to pedal
    c) hopping/air capability
    d) more riding confidence

    ...you will never want to go back to platform pedals. The learning curve is the hardest part of living with clipless pedals, but well worth the investment in riding ease and enjoyment.

    ZA

  44. #44
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    I would stay away from the crank bros.. I have Candy's on both bikes and while they are extremely easy to get in and out of there is a 50/50 chance a pedal will be destroyed if you clip a rock. May be odd coincidence but I have trashed a pedal on each bike over the last month..

  45. #45
    wrecking crew
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    uhh...ya'll know this thread was from Sept of last year, don't cha?
    ~~~

  46. #46
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Does it really matter?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  47. #47
    wrecking crew
    Reputation: su.ling~'s Avatar
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    not really...just odd to see something resurrected from 7 months ago. BTW~How's the RFX treating you Jayem? Still loving the sweet machine?
    ~~~

  48. #48
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by su.ling~
    not really...just odd to see something resurrected from 7 months ago. BTW~How's the RFX treating you Jayem? Still loving the sweet machine?
    It's a 6-pack, not an RFX

    If anyone wants to come up for the 30+ mile anti-whiskey ride, they should. Abandoned trails, long descents, technical climbs, payoffs, etc...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  49. #49
    wrecking crew
    Reputation: su.ling~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    It's a 6-pack, not an RFX

    If anyone wants to come up for the 30+ mile anti-whiskey ride, they should. Abandoned trails, long descents, technical climbs, payoffs, etc...
    Sorry man, I couldn't remember which you had. My six-pack will be angry that I messed that up.

    Your ride sounds like a blast! When are you doing it?
    ~~~

  50. #50
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    If anyone wants to come up for the 30+ mile anti-whiskey ride, they should. Abandoned trails, long descents, technical climbs, payoffs, etc...
    Hmm...so what up with this ride?
    Ride more; post less...

  51. #51
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    I posted a recap of it, I already did it.

    I plan to do it the same day as the Whiskey-on-roads ride (19th of may), and this ride will incorperate more singletrack, much better descents on singletrack (not nearly as loose and more fun), and it is quite an effort for the amount of vertical.

    It's riding trails in Thumb Butte, down towards Skull Valley, back up into Granite Basin, and then across back to Thumb Butte. In terms of singletrack descent payoff, much better than the whiskey thing, and in terms of singletrack overall, much more.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  52. #52
    Dilberto
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    Man.....you AZ riders have all the dream trails over there. All we have is the 24-Hours of Adrenalin course, at Hurkey Creek, Idyllwild(which is still an awesome course!).

    ZA

  53. #53
    Ouch, I am hot!
    Reputation: Dirdir's Avatar
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    I thought 6 Pack = RFX.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  54. #54
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    I thought 6 Pack = RFX.
    6-pack is a horst link (FSR) type suspension bike. The RFX is a single pivot (ventana) type suspension bike.

    But they're virtually identical and ride virtually identically, so the diffs aren't great, but I do appreciate the "six pack" on the side of the top tube. I think it's more socially concious.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: mistermoto's Avatar
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    Time ATAC XS here
    luck favors the prepared.

  56. #56
    Dilberto
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    Man.....you AZ riders have all the dream trails over there. All we have is the 24-Hours of Adrenalin course, at Hurkey Creek, Idyllwild(which is still an awesome course!).

    ZA

  57. #57
    .......................
    Reputation: ionsmuse's Avatar
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    I stepped out of the stone age this winter and got some Time Z's, which have been flawless and intuitive, even in the worst mud. An old pair of Shimano pedals really put me off clipless a few years ago: fewer moving parts is much better.

    And J, I'd do the ride but will be at the KTR. I like the idea of the anti-Whiskey, and that route is very cool.

  58. #58
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    Quote Originally Posted by ionsmuse
    will be at the KTR.
    ? What/where's that?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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