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  1. #1
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    Better Ride, The whole enchilada or The Triple H"S

    Here is my attempt at restoring a rational conversation. I know one is a shuttle, but which I had this conversation with a Sedona local yesterday while getting blown all to hell on Hangover. Which is a better ride?
    Discuss...
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  2. #2
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    Enchilada is on a whole 'nother scale.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  3. #3
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    Agreed. TWE is a totally different beast . I can't say one is better than the other but I can say if I lived in MOAB I seriously doubt I would travel sedona just to ride hangover but I would for the triple H ride. But on the other hand I will drive just to ride TWE. Yes I do mean TWE even the beast of a climb up to 11,000. For me it just offers so much . I love starting in the pines and ending at the colorado .
    Last edited by clockwork; 03-23-2016 at 08:47 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Having done both I'd have to say Triple H. It is a far more demanding ride, both technically and physically. You can get hop off the couch and do TWE. The notch/snotch and a couple of spots on the ending singletrack are really the only moves that require anything more than intermediate bike skillz.

    Triple H has 4000+ of climbing whereas TWE has ~1000 and most of that is on the jeep road part of Porcupine Rim or at the start. I believe there's a new trail that takes out some if not all of the initial steep climb/HAB as well. On the other hand, from the grand scale perspective it's a 7000' drop to the Colorado River through ~5 different ecological zones in the middle of canyonlands. That in itself is pretty cool.

    There is pavement to ride on Triple H which kinda sucks but there is arguably more singletrack on Triple H with half of TWE on jeep road.

    In short, the Triple H is a considerably bigger accomplishment. I wouldn't travel specifically to ride TWE unless it was late September and the aspens were changing. I find Porcupine Rim itself a bit of a beat down without being that much fun until you get to the clapped out singletrack at the end.

  5. #5
    dirt visionary
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    I was just there last year . You still have that soul zapping 1.5 mile 1000ft climb up to the pass and it was all single track up to the pass.But keep in mind you start around 10k and ride up to 11k . That takes alot more energy than climbing in lower elevation that most of us are accustomed to .My last stats from that ride show 1700ft climbing 8500 decending in 27.89 miles to the river but like most we also had that pedal back into MOAB to do after that. Although that is also better as there is now a bike lane/catwalk over the river to ride back on . I have also noticed that most of the jeep road across the portions of Porc rim resemble single track now . I have not seen any atv or such on it in years unlike my first time they were everywhere and pain to ride by or around. IMHO koko is the only true jeep road section left and its short lived before your on ups and lps.
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  6. #6
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    Not a lot to add that hasn't already been said, but I feel compelled to bump a sane thread.

    Triple H is certainly harder, both physically and technically. Scarier in places too, so mentally more taxing. It takes a well rounded rider to get through Triple H.

    But TWE has what Sedona lacks, a big descent. Not a downhill brake burner by any means, but a long multi-hour mostly down ride. And it's not without interesting bits; UPS is pretty fun, and the ledgy bits of Porcupine with drops. Yeah, I could do without the parts that amount to hitting curbs at 40mph.

    I'm not going to call a favorite because I would drive to do both of them. Both great rides, just different.

  7. #7
    The .05 percent
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Having done both I'd have to say Triple H. It is a far more demanding ride, both technically and physically. You can get hop off the couch and do TWE. The notch/snotch and a couple of spots on the ending singletrack are really the only moves that require anything more than intermediate bike skillz.

    Triple H has 4000+ of climbing whereas TWE has ~1000 and most of that is on the jeep road part of Porcupine Rim or at the start. I believe there's a new trail that takes out some if not all of the initial steep climb/HAB as well. On the other hand, from the grand scale perspective it's a 7000' drop to the Colorado River through ~5 different ecological zones in the middle of canyonlands. That in itself is pretty cool.

    There is pavement to ride on Triple H which kinda sucks but there is arguably more singletrack on Triple H with half of TWE on jeep road.

    In short, the Triple H is a considerably bigger accomplishment. I wouldn't travel specifically to ride TWE unless it was late September and the aspens were changing. I find Porcupine Rim itself a bit of a beat down without being that much fun until you get to the clapped out singletrack at the end.
    Talking with Bosman, I tend to agree. I don't think I would be able to make it thru the triple H's very easily, not in that good of shape. I do think that people seek this ride out, prob not as much as the Whole Enchilada, but it is def a contender.
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  8. #8
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    Haven't done Triple H in one all swoop (and probably won't) but I've done TWE and we're going back in October to do it again. My issue with TWE is the lengthy portion of jeep road doubletrack+ like rock man mentioned above. When I commented about the issue on MTB Project and only gave the ride 4 stars instead of 5, I was called out for it. Some people accused me of not actually riding it.

    It was fun and I'm doing it again but for me, I want my Epic to be singletrack for days...they might not be the most challenging (like Hangover) but I love the North Umpqua Trail, McKenzie River Trail & O'Leary Trail in Oregon....and the ATC in Oakridge

  9. #9
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    Evil Patrick thought The Hole Enchilada was boring and probably tried it due to reading opinions of the more verbose than most. If he didn't like it, you probably won't.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  10. #10
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    TWE gets my vote. While the Triple H may be more demanding that alone isn't enough for me to give it an epic status. And although that connection is epic imo it's nothing like TWE. The fact that there is 6k of descending alone makes it more epic imo. It's just one of the best rides in the world. It also has a much more wilderness back-woods feel to it. TWE is a point to point descending epic through 5 different eco zones (only 5?) while the Triple H feels more like connecting three rides while skirting the edge of a retirement community for wealthy new agers. I love em both but the TWE takes the cake as far as epic status goes.

  11. #11
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    I think "better ride" is entirely open for interpretation. What do you want out of your ride.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  12. #12
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    How many of you voting against the Triple H have actually done it? Everybody has done TWE. Some two or three times in a day. It is indeed an awesome ride but as far as epic shuttle descents I can think of at least 10 I would choose first.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    How many of you voting against the Triple H have actually done it? Everybody has done TWE. Some two or three times in a day. It is indeed an awesome ride but as far as epic shuttle descents I can think of at least 10 I would choose first.
    Hell no I haven't done that! It sounds ridiculously hard like I wouldn't be having fun by the end hard. Then again, I can't ever get in top notch biking shape any more.

  14. #14
    dirt visionary
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    I highly doubt people are running the whole 27miles multiple times a day.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    I highly doubt people are running the whole 27miles multiple times a day.
    Maybe not but the top Enduro riders on the BME series could and probably do. Folks are doing it in less than 2 hours. Nate Hills? 1:20.

    Both are cool rides but it's an apples and oranges comparison. Personally, if I lived in Moab I would skip TWE most of the time and just do the upper part and end the ride after LPS. Hazard is a hoot. As far as a comparison of TWE to BIG mtn descents in AZ then I would pick Mt. Lemmon.

  16. #16
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    I could list tons of rides that are harder than TWE, either physically or technically. That's not really the point, unless that's what you are trying to brag about. The point is it's a long ways down, through several climate zones, with lots of fun features and terrain. It's the combination of those things that makes it such a great ride. You guys know climbs in Phoenix better than me, but I'm pretty sure there's some crazy lung-busting steep-ness in addition to the technical, but that doesn't a perfect ride make.

    The biggest problem with Sedona is the wilderness area limiting vertical to around 400' max in most areas. Heck, if you did it right, you could make a trail from the top of Mormon Mountain at 8.5K down to 4.5K in Sedona and still have it be mostly down. In Downieville you can hook up some mega-long epic rides too, climb for a few hours, descend for a few hours, have a blast. Let's not forget, TWE isn't the only ride in Moab either.

    It's not just about the downhill, but having big climbs and descents and being able to transition through different climate zones gets you pretty far on your way to being an "epic". In CO last year, climbing up to the divide or top of the mountains was a similar experience, Start in Aspens, get into firs, then spruce, then alpine tundra, all seemingly feeling endless on the way up, then feel like you are on top of the world when you finally make it, then zoom down on the same or different trails. Climbing from 8500ish to above 12K in one giant climb, not all up, but mostly. It's being able to ride to somewhere remote, not just somewhere 1 mile from town. It's about riding past a giant train trestle at 11,000 feet. It's about all of that and more.

    6 Shooter can start to tick the boxes a little closer even, when the conditions are good.

    Be proud of HHH, it surely launched Sedona into the serious MTB destination game and those trails are gems for sure.
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  17. #17
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    A group of us hit TWE last year and had a blast.. Next week we are heading to Sedona and plan on doing Triple H... Its only 4000 feet of climbing.. Hell- we do that in a short ride here in VT.. the VT50 is 8500 feet of climbing.. yeah its not all ST but its still dam hard! and fun.. Ill report back to which one we liked better.. But my gut tells me they are two different trails both with Pros and Cons.. But hey.. at least we are riding and sitting on the couch!

  18. #18
    The .05 percent
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    Quote Originally Posted by HTJEM View Post
    A group of us hit TWE last year and had a blast.. Next week we are heading to Sedona and plan on doing Triple H... Its only 4000 feet of climbing.. Hell- we do that in a short ride here in VT.. the VT50 is 8500 feet of climbing.. yeah its not all ST but its still dam hard! and fun.. Ill report back to which one we liked better.. But my gut tells me they are two different trails both with Pros and Cons.. But hey.. at least we are riding and sitting on the couch!
    "Only 4000 feet of climbing" Let us know how this works out.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sinatorj View Post
    "Only 4000 feet of climbing" Let us know how this works out.
    we will.. our 8 mile ride from my house is 1200ft climbing. We know its different but it will be fun!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HTJEM View Post
    we will.. our 8 mile ride from my house is 1200ft climbing. We know its different but it will be fun!
    You're coming out with WoodstockMTB? Definitely report back. 30 miles in Sedona feels like 50 miles to me elsewhere so I wonder if 4000' of elevation gain will add up to 8000' Vermont style. I don't think I've ever done 8000', that's massive. Hat's off to that kind of vertical. But I've heard of folks doing TWE from town as a loop which is mind boggling.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    But I've heard of folks doing TWE from town as a loop which is mind boggling.
    My understanding is that originally and from the locals' perspective, riding from town WAS "The Whole Enchilada" and getting a ride up was "Burro Down." Burro Down doesn't look as good on a T-shirt, though.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    My understanding is that originally and from the locals' perspective, riding from town WAS "The Whole Enchilada" and getting a ride up was "Burro Down." Burro Down doesn't look as good on a T-shirt, though.
    Yeah, that's my understanding as well. Many moons ago THE ride in Moab was to ride Porcupine Rim from town. That last bit down to the river, Portal, and Jackson's was the only singletrack in all of Moab. That is mind boggling. Think how much is there now.

    OK, I call this TLE or The Little Enchilada but I bet even Jayem hasn't done this one and it's less than 50 miles from Moab. Shuttle to Foy Lake in the Abajos (Blue Mountains). Climb Robertson Pastureto Red Ledges to Aspen Flat trail. Contour on a dirt road to Indian Creek trail and drop that all the way to hwy 211 and Newspaper Rock. That's way more of an adventure ride that TWE and drops through the same 5 ecological zones with the same amazing canyonland views. 2500' elevation gain and 5000' of descending.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    You're coming out with WoodstockMTB? Definitely report back. 30 miles in Sedona feels like 50 miles to me elsewhere so I wonder if 4000' of elevation gain will add up to 8000' Vermont style. I don't think I've ever done 8000', that's massive. Hat's off to that kind of vertical. But I've heard of folks doing TWE from town as a loop which is mind boggling.
    I think the altitude will be OK. We put in some descent miles in Fruita last year and UT the year before that at similar elevation. Didn't notice it much.

    I'm more concerned about early season legs! I think the technilca nature of the trails is a bit more draining than we are used to, but what we lack in elevation and tech here in VT we make up for with slow, loamy dirt and greasy roots and rocks. Its slow work to get mileage here. Either way, I think we have our work cut out for us with HHH.

    I like that it goes through the retirement community. If we get tired, we can bail and find a cougar for a cocktail and crystal healing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woodstockmtb View Post
    i like that it goes through the retirement community. If we get tired, we can bail and find a cougar for a cocktail and crystal healing.

    ahhaahahahahhhahaha!!!!!!

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodstockMTB View Post
    I think the altitude will be OK. We put in some descent miles in Fruita last year and UT the year before that at similar elevation. Didn't notice it much.

    I'm more concerned about early season legs! I think the technilca nature of the trails is a bit more draining than we are used to, but what we lack in elevation and tech here in VT we make up for with slow, loamy dirt and greasy roots and rocks. Its slow work to get mileage here. Either way, I think we have our work cut out for us with HHH.

    I like that it goes through the retirement community. If we get tired, we can bail and find a cougar for a cocktail and crystal healing.
    Yeah this ain't no kingdom trails, that's for sure! Vermont has some great riding, no doubt, but you will love Sedona. Have a great trip.
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  26. #26
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    Ya, it's not about the elevation. The trails are BUSY, and I don't mean traffic. They are slower and techier than most places. It's pretty tiring.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Ya, it's not about the elevation. The trails are BUSY, and I don't mean traffic. They are slower and techier than most places. It's pretty tiring.
    And then your looking for Easter Eggs.Better Ride, The whole enchilada or The Triple H"S-looking-easter-eggs-ho.jpg

    Cleaning all three of the H's on one ride is like a bogey free round of golf with no blow up holes.

  28. #28
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    Same conversation with Bosman, he told of a group that came out from Iowa to ride the 3 H's. Could not get past the hogs, were banished to the "Big Park Loop"
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    We figured the HHH is a great trail to try as it has many bailout points if we die..

    For TWE we had a blast on that trail! It was so much fun and loved LPP.. The swim in the Colorado at the end was the best!

  30. #30
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    Doing top to bottom on UPS to town without stopping with Swampthang last spring was probably the most fun I've had in awhile but the H's have more consequence for getting broke off. I get spoiled with having Sedona so close. The whole travel and debauchery at woodys in Moab is always welcome.
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  31. #31
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    Here's a 67 year old dude cleaning the three hardest roll-in moves on each of the H rides last week.



    Seemed appropriate to post this here. Some of you know him of course, but arguably there would not have been a Burro Down or TWE without his ambassadorship. He singlehandedly built LPS which led to locals linking up the pre-existing singletrack in the LaSals by building Hazard County. If you've ridden Mag7 he also had a hand in that.

    Happy Easter everybody!

  32. #32
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    Love that guy above!

    Triple H was not accomplished. Still managed 28miles including Highline and Hogs. Did Hangover on its own later.

    Have to say we enjoyed The Mescal area, Slim Shady and most of all the Javelina/Grand Central trails the most. Fastest, great downs and you can actually pedal constantly for miles on end. The H trails were fun, techy, exposed and interesting, but from a riding a bike perspective they lacked consistency for my skill set. I'm probably just not good enough and certainly don't have that terrain here in VT. Busy is a great way to describe it.

    Sedona was fun. We all had multiple OTBs on the H trails. Blood was shed. Red Dust was inhaled. Tons of mexican food and tequila was consumed. Beautiful place.

  33. #33
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    Without turning this into a "which bike is better" topic.....curious to see what type of bike caters best from riders who regularly hit these two outings? I'm assuming HHH with its closer access and lack of needing shuttling gets more repetitive trips over the TWE, but terrain sounds like it requires more of an AM bike over what the TWE would require.

    Also wondering if the 27.5+ bikes are starting to show their advantages on your trail systems out there yet?

    Thanks in advance.
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

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