AZCentral: Mountain lion killed after run-ins with cyclists, game officials- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    New question here. AZCentral: Mountain lion killed after run-ins with cyclists, game officials

    Anyone know anything more about this?

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...lion17-ON.html

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    I think the Rangers did the right thing

    Quote Originally Posted by AZRobbo
    Anyone know anything more about this?

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...lion17-ON.html
    I don't know any more than the article details. This is one of my main riding areas, and "Ironbar" has been talking to me about riding that very trail soon.

    Though I am a wildlife photographer and look forward to wildlife encounters, I think the person who criticized the killing of this animal is an idiot. It is quite true that we are riding in their territory, and I respect that, but this animal's behavior had obviously crossed a line.

    I was photographing a pride of eleven lions with a zebra "kill" in Namibia a few years ago. I was about 75 yards from the zebra, and twice one of the lions moved out toward me to check me out (I was not in a vehicle!) The second lion was not more than 30 feet away from me, and frankly I was scared silly, but they were not "stalking" me and were only interested in protecting their kill, so I think it would have been unconscionable to have shot the lion (not that I was armed anyway).

    In the story about Mt. Lemmon the people WERE the potential "kill", and that is a different matter.

    John W.

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    Its sad that it had to come to that. But better that nobody became lunch.

  4. #4
    I am Doctor Remulak
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    Any of you Tucson guys know the 2 mountain bikers in the story?

    Sounds like they did all the right things to protect themselves from an attack. I had the same defensive thoughts in my mind while in Globe on Sunday.

    Mike

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    Whaaaat?

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Mikey
    Any of you Tucson guys know the 2 mountain bikers in the story?

    Sounds like they did all the right things to protect themselves from an attack. I had the same defensive thoughts in my mind while in Globe on Sunday.

    Mike
    What happened on Sunday pray tell! Haven't heard any reports from you guys...

  6. #6
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    The Antelope Squirrels of Pinal Peak are…

    .....quite dangerous, they can leap thirty feet in a single bound, dismount a MTB rider and then rip their jugular, just for kicks.

    I think the riders, probably locals, want to remain anonymous for now.

    The incident looks like it took place in the sandy creek bed near the camp ground that the construction crew use as a base of operations so there must be significant human activity in the area other than hikers and bikers. That also explains why the riders were able to see the cougar, they were along the slow sandy section, higher up they would have been going too fast and having too much fun.

    That was certainly aggressive behavior toward the MTB’ers. I have seen cougars while MTB'ing before, but never felt threatened and I would think she had rabies or was protecting her den.

    Louis

  7. #7
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    I like the lets wait until something happens mentality

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn
    I don't know any more than the article details. This is one of my main riding areas, and "Ironbar" has been talking to me about riding that very trail soon.

    Though I am a wildlife photographer and look forward to wildlife encounters, I think the person who criticized the killing of this animal is an idiot. It is quite true that we are riding in their territory, and I respect that, but this animal's behavior had obviously crossed a line.

    I was photographing a pride of eleven lions with a zebra "kill" in Namibia a few years ago. I was about 75 yards from the zebra, and twice one of the lions moved out toward me to check me out (I was not in a vehicle!) The second lion was not more than 30 feet away from me, and frankly I was scared silly, but they were not "stalking" me and were only interested in protecting their kill, so I think it would have been unconscionable to have shot the lion (not that I was armed anyway).

    In the story about Mt. Lemmon the people WERE the potential "kill", and that is a different matter.

    John W.
    One day three of us were driving back from a road race in Jamul (San Diego). Our three bikes were on a cheap trunk rack designed for two bikes and were, at one point, swaying in the wind to the point where one of us said, hey, that looks bad. Another one said, lets wait to stop until it is safer. I said sarcasticly, yea, lets wait until the danger is over before we do something. At that moment, this guys brand new Klein flew off the rack onto the highway at 70 mph. That guy was bumming dude. Same goes for these lions. Lets wait until someone gets eaten before we do something.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  8. #8
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    One day three of us were driving back from a road race in Jamul (San Diego). Our three bikes were on a cheap trunk rack designed for two bikes and were, at one point, swaying in the wind to the point where one of us said, hey, that looks bad. Another one said, lets wait to stop until it is safer. I said sarcasticly, yea, lets wait until the danger is over before we do something. At that moment, this guys brand new Klein flew off the rack onto the highway at 70 mph. That guy was bumming dude. Same goes for these lions. Lets wait until someone gets eaten before we do something.
    Well, perhaps if these riders, and others that go into the wilderness, at least carried pepper spray and maybe some kind of noisemakers, lions would not be so inclined to go "check out" humans every time the paths cross. These riders did the right thing within the limits of what they could do, but it seems like 95% of people that go into the wilderness just take up the attitude of "oh well, the chances of a lion or other wild animal encounter are pretty low, so I'll just take my chances", which will eventually burn someone. Even though the chances are low, it still makes sense to go into the wilderness prepared, IMO if you aren't riding with someone that has pepper spray or maybe something else to the same effect, you shouldn't be riding in the wilderness, go to some park in a city if you aren't going to be responsable.

    That is the kind of "pro-activeness" that would keep us from killing every lion we came across because of human encroachment, rather than just going out and hunting them. Lion encounters are not so rare, but lion maulings or attacks are, and yes you probably wont know a lion is there if it doesn't want you to know, but more and more it seems that lions and mountain biker's paths are "crossing" and the lion goes to investigate, and in MANY cases, the humans are aware of the lions presence,

  9. #9
    I am Doctor Remulak
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    The first rule of Pinal Mtn is you don't talk about Pinal Mtn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Srexy
    What happened on Sunday pray tell! Haven't heard any reports from you guys...

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    I told you Rex, you had to be there

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Mikey
    The first rule of Pinal Mtn is you don't talk about Pinal Mtn.
    but you just wouldn't break all your domestic commitments and go riding, would you? What's WRONG with you?

  11. #11
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    What goes on in Pinal Mtn. stays in Pinal Mtn?...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedalAZ
    but you just wouldn't break all your domestic commitments and go riding, would you? What's WRONG with you?
    Those long hall passes are hard to come by w/a 2yr old in the house

    I did manage to get in 54 miles w/the ProCon roadie set however.

  12. #12

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    You Didn't Miss A Thing

    Quote Originally Posted by Srexy
    Those long hall passes are hard to come by w/a 2yr old in the house

    I did manage to get in 54 miles w/the ProCon roadie set however.
    Rex,

    Globe was hot, dusty, windy, and too far to drive. The trails were covered with deadfall, there was way too much hike-a-bike, the shuttles were too long to make it worth it. Simply a logistical nightmare, and I got food poisoning after having dinner at JB's Restaurant. Two words: Don't go!

    John W.

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    Good one! I;ll never go again.

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn
    Rex,

    Globe was hot, dusty, windy, and too far to drive. The trails were covered with deadfall, there was way too much hike-a-bike, the shuttles were too long to make it worth it. Simply a logistical nightmare, and I got food poisoning after having dinner at JB's Restaurant. Two words: Don't go!

    John W.
    Heh heh.

  14. #14
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    Preparedness = Worthless

    Quote Originally Posted by Jm.
    Well, perhaps if these riders, and others that go into the wilderness, at least carried pepper spray and maybe some kind of noisemakers, lions would not be so inclined to go "check out" humans every time the paths cross. These riders did the right thing within the limits of what they could do, but it seems like 95% of people that go into the wilderness just take up the attitude of "oh well, the chances of a lion or other wild animal encounter are pretty low, so I'll just take my chances", which will eventually burn someone. Even though the chances are low, it still makes sense to go into the wilderness prepared, IMO if you aren't riding with someone that has pepper spray or maybe something else to the same effect, you shouldn't be riding in the wilderness, go to some park in a city if you aren't going to be responsable.

    That is the kind of "pro-activeness" that would keep us from killing every lion we came across because of human encroachment, rather than just going out and hunting them. Lion encounters are not so rare, but lion maulings or attacks are, and yes you probably wont know a lion is there if it doesn't want you to know, but more and more it seems that lions and mountain biker's paths are "crossing" and the lion goes to investigate, and in MANY cases, the humans are aware of the lions presence,
    Before starting, I just want to say I am no expert by any means, but here is my uneducated opinion. I think that if a lion is going to actually bite and attack a person, pepperspray and noisemakers will be worthless at that point. If a lion is starving, it may attack no matter what we do. Education on how to stop an attack (face the lion, look big, yell, ect.) may help prevent an actual attack, but if the encounter has gotten to that point, the lion is a danger and needs to be removed or killed. I am not talking about simple lion encounters - look, there goes a lion. Rather, I am addressing dangerous encounters with lions where action needs to be taken or the lion may attack. We can't have that.

    I don't want to kill any lions, but the reality is that even if education and preparedness did make a difference, which I don't think they really can, 100% education and preparedness is simply not going to happen. Too many people, too much apathy and not enough resources.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  15. #15
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    Not to mention that our riding partners were all arrogant jerks. Buncha showboats. Never again. There was even a dork on a SS there.


    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn
    Rex,

    Globe was hot, dusty, windy, and too far to drive. The trails were covered with deadfall, there was way too much hike-a-bike, the shuttles were too long to make it worth it. Simply a logistical nightmare, and I got food poisoning after having dinner at JB's Restaurant. Two words: Don't go!

    John W.

  16. #16
    pedaller
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    follow up story on Mtn Lion encounter...

    Lion makes mountain biker's birthday memorable!

    "Here I am, I've been on this earth for 28 years and done the most extreme sports," marveled Romero, who with Roggow founded a cycling group called No Obstacles. But nothing rivaled the experience he had on what has become an unforgettable birthday.
    "Nobody ever told me not to try" - Curious George Soundtrack by Jack Johnson

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srexy
    What happened on Sunday pray tell! Haven't heard any reports from you guys...
    You're not cleared for that information.

    I can neither confirm nor deny there was any riding anywhere on Sunday, in particular -- or not -- on Pinal Mountain (or anywhere else). We do not comment on rumors published about the fun had, or not had, on such rides.

    This ongoing policy of semi-official leaks about freaking awesome riding on the best trails in the state is pernicious and undermines the morale of our soldiers in the field. You will not hear any more about these events, no matter how fantastically fast, bermed, and perfect the newly cleared singletrack and 10,000 total feet of descending might, or might not, have been.

    p.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  18. #18
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    *******s...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    You're not cleared for that information.

    I can neither confirm nor deny there was any riding anywhere on Sunday, in particular -- or not -- on Pinal Mountain (or anywhere else). We do not comment on rumors published about the fun had, or not had, on such rides.

    This ongoing policy of semi-official leaks about freaking awesome riding on the best trails in the state is pernicious and undermines the morale of our soldiers in the field. You will not hear any more about these events, no matter how fantastically fast, bermed, and perfect the newly cleared singletrack and 10,000 total feet of descending might, or might not, have been.

    p.
    Guess I'll have to show up one day

    I'm also hoping that Mikey will show up on Thursday and spill the beans once sufficiently lubricated on Trappist Ale and Coppulatory wines!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir
    If a lion is starving, it may attack no matter what we do. Education on how to stop an attack (face the lion, look big, yell, ect.) may help prevent an actual attack, but if the encounter has gotten to that point, the lion is a danger and needs to be removed or killed. I am not talking about simple lion encounters - look, there goes a lion. Rather, I am addressing dangerous encounters with lions where action needs to be taken or the lion may attack. We can't have that.
    I think there's a fine line here. A single attack does not mean that a certain cat is particularly dangerous. If a mountain lion attacks a person and is fought off, you'd think a smart, healthy lion would say "hmm, them funny looking people things are kind of scarry and hurt me when they throw rocks at me, they're more truble then they're worth" and thus won't want to attack people anymore. So with a single attack, hopefully a courgar will learn it's lesson.

    But what we have here is a pattern of attacking and tracking humans, which means it hasn't learned it's lesson, and probably won't stop until it's killed, whether that means a person is killed in the meantime or not. I suppose there might be a possibility of relocation as they do with grizzly bears in Yellowstone, but to where? We are in their home, they aren't in ours, but there's less and less of their home which is safely away from people.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Srexy
    Guess I'll have to show up one day

    I'm also hoping that Mikey will show up on Thursday and spill the beans once sufficiently lubricated on Trappist Ale and Coppulatory wines!
    Give it your best shot with those Belgian Ales, I will attempt to withstand the probing questions (if I can make it).

  21. #21
    MFC
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    Maybe it was just a dream then?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    You're not cleared for that information.

    I can neither confirm nor deny there was any riding anywhere on Sunday, in particular -- or not -- on Pinal Mountain (or anywhere else). We do not comment on rumors published about the fun had, or not had, on such rides.

    This ongoing policy of semi-official leaks about freaking awesome riding on the best trails in the state is pernicious and undermines the morale of our soldiers in the field. You will not hear any more about these events, no matter how fantastically fast, bermed, and perfect the newly cleared singletrack and 10,000 total feet of descending might, or might not, have been.

    p.

    I just wanted to thank you guys again for letting me tag along on this ride, that may or may not have happened on Sunday. It was truly one of the most memorable days of riding I have ever had!

    -Chad

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MFC
    I just wanted to thank you guys again for letting me tag along on this ride, that may or may not have happened on Sunday. It was truly one of the most memorable days of riding I have ever had!

    -Chad
    It was a pleasure to have you along, Chad -- you rode like a rock star (maybe, if this alleged event even occurred) out there. I should have put you up front so you could open it up.

    Since you are now cleared to keep your memory of this event, you don't need to submit yourself to our re-education and indoctrination camp.

    p.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

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    Attention Mr. "B"

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B
    You're not cleared for that information.

    I can neither confirm nor deny there was any riding anywhere on Sunday, in particular -- or not -- on Pinal Mountain (or anywhere else). We do not comment on rumors published about the fun had, or not had, on such rides.

    This ongoing policy of semi-official leaks about freaking awesome riding on the best trails in the state is pernicious and undermines the morale of our soldiers in the field. You will not hear any more about these events, no matter how fantastically fast, bermed, and perfect the newly cleared singletrack and 10,000 total feet of descending might, or might not, have been.

    p.
    Concerning your statement regarding the purported “Event” in Globe:

    I represent a non-profit organization called Defending the Public’s Right to Know, which has reviewed your official statement on this matter, and we have grave concerns.

    Not only is your statement buried deep within the text of a TOTALLY UNRELATED thread, but it is worded in a way that appears to be almost deliberately obfuscating.

    Our investigators have reviewed the Desk Sergeant’s blotter at the Globe Police Station, a document which is, let me remind you, part of the PUBLIC RECORD.

    It reveals that late on the afternoon of Sunday, May 16, 2004, multiple complaints were received from residents of Six Shooter Canyon regarding the bizarre behavior of a large group of mountain bike riders.

    According to the documents, a joint force of officers from the Globe Police Department and the Pinal County Sheriffs Department briefly detained nine males for suspicion of PUBLIC INTOXICATION. All of the suspects listed Tucson or Phoenix as their home addresses, and all were in possession of expensive mountain bikes that had obviously been ridden hard on the day in question.

    Again according to official reports, the group was interrogated, given Breathalizer tests, and had their bicycles briefly impounded. All were released shortly thereafter when it was determined that their behavior was merely their reaction to almost five hours of riding downhill trails on nearby Pinal Mountain.

    Sir, given the right of all citizens to know the TRUTH, would you care to comment on these reports?

    John W.
    President, Defending the Public’s Right to Know

  24. #24
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    AZCentral: MTB'er slain by Antelope Squirrel on Pinal Peak.

    Answers, I demand answers!

    Perhaps a congressional inquiry into this purported mayhem.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn
    Sir, given the right of all citizens to know the TRUTH, would you care to comment on these reports?

    John W.
    President, Defending the Public’s Right to Know
    9/11!

    p.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

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    What a RELIEF!

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    Answers, I demand answers!

    Perhaps a congressional inquiry into this purported mayhem.
    I had originally understood that Antelope Squirrels were killed by mountain bikers on Pinal Peak! I was worried sick.

    What a relief to learn that it was the other way around.

    John W.

  27. #27
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    They can jump and they have razor sharp teeth!

    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn
    I had originally understood that Antelope Squirrels were killed by mountain bikers on Pinal Peak! I was worried sick.

    What a relief to learn that it was the other way around.

    John W.
    My understanding, after consulting "The Book of Armaments", is that it takes something akin to the Holy Hand Grenade to take one of those foul tempered rodents out.

    A simple head count of riders, according to an anonymous scource, would show that two riders were missing on the alleged second run.

    Louis

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    A simple head count of riders, according to an anonymous scource, would show that two riders were missing on the alleged second run.

    Louis
    Yeah, you did sacrifice your run for God and country, and a grateful America salutes you.

    p.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  29. #29
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    Let us taunt it!

    It may become so cross that it will make a mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDog
    My understanding, after consulting "The Book of Armaments", is that it takes something akin to the Holy Hand Grenade to take one of those foul tempered rodents out.

    A simple head count of riders, according to an anonymous scource, would show that two riders were missing on the alleged second run.

    Louis

  30. #30
    Jm.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Mikey
    It may become so cross that it will make a mistake.

    Like what?

  31. #31
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    pretty kitty...

    nice kitty...
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    may your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. may your mountains rise into and above the clouds.
    -edward abbey

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