Another bicyclist killed- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Another bicyclist killed

    http://www.azcentral.com/community/p...collision.html

    I feel like I read one of these stories once a week.

  2. #2
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    Yep, roadbikers being mowed down and bikes being stolen are becoming commonplace around here.
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  3. #3
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    i wounder what the ratio for a daily bassis of cars on the road to car deaths, as bikes on the road to bike deaths. if that makes sense.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    I believe this is the third fatal accident this week alone. I really hate reading stories like these. My prayers go out to all the families out there and for everyone to be safe and take the time out there to pay some extra attention on the road. The weather is cooling down and school is back in, expect to see more riders out there. I'll be one of them dodging traffic, suv's and empty beer bottles.
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  6. #6
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    Our companies bank is at that intersection. I knew a back way in and it was a pretty gruesome site. I was there even after the body was taken away yet hazmate was still there cleaning up the scene. The bike was close to 50 yards from the intersection and they had investigation cones all the way from the crosswalk to the bike.
    Last edited by Cycle64; 09-20-2009 at 08:34 AM.
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  7. #7
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    It does seem like these are occurring more lately. Not what I wanted to read before starting my ride home from work....

    Prayers for the riders family. Be careful everyone!
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  8. #8
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    This story caught my attention because that's my bicycle commute to and from work three days a week. What does "against the red light" mean? Does that mean he was trying to get across without the green light? My sympathy to him and his family but here is another wake up call for all of us. I'm going to reel in habit of what I euphemistically call "poaching" an intersection. Safe two wheeling to all.

  9. #9
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    Did anyone hear about a bike car accident that occured on Pecos road on Tuesday? I was on my road bike and saw a lady loading up a wrecked road or tri bike, and next to it was a Volkswagen with a smashed windshield and hood. Police were there, but it looks like the bicyclist already had left the scene.

  10. #10
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    This stuff just sucks. It's also the main reason I keep my tires on dirt. I don't think I could ever ride a road bike. I'm too scared.
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  11. #11
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    do most of these happen in the intersection?

  12. #12
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    Unfortunately it sounds that the cyclist ran a red light. If he was on a bike or in a car, he would have been hit. Phoenix really needs to do a better job at educating people (drivers AND riders) about bicycle safety. This is the time of year that more and more bikes get dusted off and hit the roads, and historically this time of year is when more of the casual cyclists get hit.

    Regardless, it's terrible to hear Be careful out there!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdss
    This stuff just sucks. It's also the main reason I keep my tires on dirt. I don't think I could ever ride a road bike. I'm too scared.
    I used to say the same thing, but found that I really enjoy Road Cycling and try to be a carefull as possible. Living out in the town of Maricopa I ride the 347 almost daily during the week and feel like I am riding my bike on the freeway with people zooming past me a 80+mph. I try to stay on the far right as close to the dirt as possible, but all it takes is somebody not paying attention for a split second. When I get off work it is too damm hot to Mt bike, so I stick to the road bike, and hit the trails on the weekend. That being said as soon as it cools down, I will be on the trails more.

  14. #14
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    As someone who rides both MTB's and road bikes, it's obvious that the risks are different in each case. I know that when I ride through an intersection with oncoming traffic turning left, I slow down and get ready to slam on the brakes...let's face it, we're hard to see due to our size. I think the other factor here is that depending on your location, the risk changes. In central PHX it's simply more risky. For example, my GF used to live at 15th Ave and Thomas...when she moved in with me at 64th st and Bell, her car insurance dropped in half. Why is that ? I think it might be the typical driver in scottsdale is educated, more wealthy, and hence lower risk (on average of course...there are plenty of morons here).... I've logged tons of miles on a road bike and had very few issues...sure I've had the a-hole slap me on the back as he went by, been honked at, etc, but simply choose routes where I feel safer. At the "end of the day" you have to choose the risks you want to take...if you're risk adverse, keep the bike on the rollers, and stick to the treadmill...and be sure to wear suspenders since your belt buckle may come loose...
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  15. #15
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    The best phrase I know of for riding on the road is "Death lurks at intersections". Don't remember where I heard that but it makes so much sense. You really have to focus when crossing, even if you have the light. No matter who's at fault, the cyclist is going to lose...
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  16. #16
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    A video from last month when a Wis. State Rep runs a red light and tags a cyclist...

    http://www.wkowtv.com/global/video/f...o&rnd=14599415

    Just in case you missed it.

    Scary.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    No matter who's at fault, the cyclist is going to lose...
    reminds me of a quote my dad told me when I was a kid - "do you want to be right and dead or wrong and alive" - loosely translated, look out for cars and yield if the car doesn't.

    sorry to hear about this - best wishes to family and friends...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    A video from last month when a Wis. State Rep runs a red light and tags a cyclist...

    Scary.
    thanks dude.

    gotta say imo the traffic cameras do help with this, the video said people thought they didn't. Since they are run by municipalities, unlike the highway cams, your violation does goto the DMV and its automatic traffic school. Maybe it takes getting tagged once, but I know I am much more cautious now.

    I agree with Ken and others - intersections are your greatest danger points. You need to eyeball everyone as you approach, and be extra careful if you carry speed through a transition like in this video. If you cant see around the corners, even if you have right of way, slow down.
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  19. #19
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    I wish there was an easy way to get more info on these, things like was the rider in a bike lane? sidewalk? going with the flow of traffic or against? wearing a helmet? etc.

    All these bicycle deaths make cycling sound so dangerous but if the riders are being reckless then maybe things aren't as bad as they seem. I recently started commuting 10 miles each way to work once a week and sharing the road with cars scares the hell out of me, I do my best to take only roads with bike lanes and lower traffic volume and I would love to get more info on what really is going on.

  20. #20
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    Electronic devices are my biggest fear to my safety. I really can't stand to even ride with the flow of traffic. I like to "see" and avoid.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom93R1
    I wish there was an easy way to get more info on these, things like was the rider in a bike lane? sidewalk? going with the flow of traffic or against? wearing a helmet? etc.

    All these bicycle deaths make cycling sound so dangerous but if the riders are being reckless then maybe things aren't as bad as they seem. I recently started commuting 10 miles each way to work once a week and sharing the road with cars scares the hell out of me, I do my best to take only roads with bike lanes and lower traffic volume and I would love to get more info on what really is going on.
    I wish Phoenix had more bike lanes. I also wish Phoenix had more bike racks... but that's a whole 'nother issue. All in all, it's just not a very bike friendly city.

  22. #22
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    I was about to start riding to work on my bike but things like this scare the hell out of me. There are a good 2 miles on my 8 mile trek that do not have bike lanes at all and I can just picture cars itching to pass me and side-swiping me.

  23. #23
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    Dupe

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by crispy
    I wish Phoenix had more bike lanes. I also wish Phoenix had more bike racks... but that's a whole 'nother issue. All in all, it's just not a very bike friendly city.
    There is a metric ton of bike lanes and riding not just in Phx but in most of the valley but I'm always happy to see more.
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by crispy
    IAll in all, it's just not a very bike friendly city.
    Compared to many other cities its actually fantastic. When I moved here I thought, hey, this is gonna be great! Could it be better, absolutely, but its still better than many other cities.
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  26. #26
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    I need to do more research then and find more routes. I typically ride the "bike corridor" along 3rd Ave into downtown, and it seems like an after-thought... it crosses several busy roads with no signals and at several spots detours off 3rd into neighborhoods.

    But my big pet peeve right now is that there are so few restaurants and businesses with bike racks. I've spent many hours in the saddle trying to come up with a compelling business plan or tax incentive to entice merchants to install bike racks.

  27. #27
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    More bike lanes in Phoenix would be a step in the right direction for sure - so sad.

  28. #28
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    I go through this intersection 2X daily on my bicycle commute so I'll do an ecumenical genuflection of some sort a few times in the cyclist memory but I wont let his, and other accidents keep me from riding- and it's not an obstinacy thing. You can only control so much in your life and life's inherent dangers cannot be completely micro-managed. I'm more scared for my safety when I'm in a vehicle in this city than when I'm on my bike.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noelg
    A video from last month when a Wis. State Rep runs a red light and tags a cyclist...

    Just in case you missed it.

    Scary.
    OMG

    The last thing said by the reporter in the video was "according to one witness the accident appeared to be the fault of the bicyclist". The only logical follow to that statement would be. "After that statement was made, the witness who stated it was found to be the stupidest person on the planet".

    So letís see, the cyclist had a green light and the SUV had a red. How can it be that they would mention that someone said that it looked like it was the cyclists fault? Answer, because people don't generally think cyclist have the same rights to the road as cars. Very sad.

  30. #30
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    While I agree that the SUV driver was completely at fault for running the red light, I also think the cyclist deserves some "blame" if you will.

    From what I see, he goes blowing through the intersection with a BUS on his left (which not only blocks HIM from view of the cross traffic but also blocks HIS ability to ride defensively). I think we could all learn a few things here:

    1) It's probably never a good idea to enter an intersection first in heavy traffic - at speed.
    2) Make sure the traffic is clear - regardless of the light
    3) Always keep your head on a swivel

    Yes the accident wasn't the cyclist's fault but it's likelihood could have been diminished by the rider as well as the driver - and the rider has A LOT more to lose.
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  31. #31
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    Good point here. One of the safety aspects we stress to the fleet of drivers at my work is not to "jackrabbit" the start at a green light. As a bike commuter who crosses 3 major Aves and 4 major Roads I have watched hundreds of cars go through those lights when my light turns green. Despite the brutal visual on this video link I am glad that this forum can be educational. I'll state it here again; this thread has tightened me up.

  32. #32
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    I've ridden across the country several times and didn't worry too much. Here... I worry.
    I can't put my finger on one thing but drivers here are careless , thoughtless and small minded when it comes to bikes. I still ride road but if there is a canal, I'm on it.

    The housing crash has helped a bit since people had to give up their giant Escalades they bought through refinancing their over valued homes. A lot fewer behemouths on the road these daysr. Gas crunch helped too.
    3 years ago... almost every car on the road was a damn SUV driven by someone who couldn't manouver a VW into airport hangar . Right side mirrors sticking 2 feet into the bike lane are a hazard big time.
    Last edited by JohnniO; 09-18-2009 at 09:02 PM.

  33. #33
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    so I have to ask, what it the advantage of a bike lane over a sidewalk? Is it the fear of hitting a pedestrian or is the little cracks that might hurt the skinny tires? It seems to me that the chance of a pedestrian/cyclist collision would be much less and if there were the injuries would be significantly less then a car/cyclist accident. This is all to say if there were someone on the sidewalk as unless you are in a heavily populated area I find the sidewalks around gilbert empty when I ride on them.
    and the lurker returns to the dark corner

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttocs
    so I have to ask, what it the advantage of a bike lane over a sidewalk? Is it the fear of hitting a pedestrian or is the little cracks that might hurt the skinny tires? It seems to me that the chance of a pedestrian/cyclist collision would be much less and if there were the injuries would be significantly less then a car/cyclist accident. This is all to say if there were someone on the sidewalk as unless you are in a heavily populated area I find the sidewalks around gilbert empty when I ride on them.
    Legally, bikes are vehicles, and they don't belong on sidewalks unless explicitly allowed. Practically, most sidewalks in the valley are empty, and on a busy road I'd risk the (unlikely) warning or citation and ride on it unless there was significant pedestrian traffic. I'd bet most cops would rather see the bike on an empty sidewalk than in a busy street.

  35. #35
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    It's pretty hard and dangerous to maintain a good speed on the sidewalk. I hit the sidewalk on the mountain bike but cruise at maybe 10mph tops when I do that. On the road bike when I commute to work I average 18-20mph and there is no safe way to do that on a sidewalk.

    For instance, when a car is pulling out of the parking lot do they stop before the sidewalk and look both ways before proceeding to the street? No, they don't even look when entering the sidewalk and often get their nose out into the street before looking.

  36. #36
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    Good point, Tom. I haven't used a bike for commuting in ages, and back then I lived in Boston, so riding on the sidewalks was out of the question. I drive to work up Hayden Rd. to the Airpark every day. I see cyclists riding that road in the morning and I just don't think I'd want to do the same. However, I'm no longer battle hardened like I once was. Also, I think drivers in Boston, while about as psychotic as they are in AZ, were more aware of bikes because more people ride them back there. Here people tend to either over-compensate (no, please don't stop when I'm the one that should yield and I'm already in a track stand waiting for you to pass), or they're oblivious.

  37. #37
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    legal smegal............ I would agree and have always chosen the sidewalk over a bike lane and been waiting for a policeman to give me a ticket for it. But I keep hearing the roadies drool over bike lanes and how much better this place would be with more bike lanes and I just do not understand why..........
    and the lurker returns to the dark corner

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by ttocs
    legal smegal............ I would agree and have always chosen the sidewalk over a bike lane and been waiting for a policeman to give me a ticket for it. But I keep hearing the roadies drool over bike lanes and how much better this place would be with more bike lanes and I just do not understand why..........
    Dude:

    Are you not reading the rest of the other posts? The sidewalk is not safer. It is more dangerous. For example, just the other day a baby was killed by an SUV because the driver did not safely exit a driveway through the sidewalk. All sorts of drivers stop before the road, but not the sidewalk. And, even if you don't believe that and don't care about the legal mumbo jumbo, YES, the little cracks do hurt the skinny tires and more importantly, they are annoying as hell.
    I AM JUST A JERK

  39. #39
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    Dude: Calm down, I asked a question.

    right, you can also get hit in a parking lot or any area that a car is allowed to drive. I did hear about the baby and the suv, but how many cyclists have been hit on a sidewalk? As they said above you need to be carefull at intersections and this is no different if you are on a sidewalk. You wouldn't agree that the chance of being hit on the sidewalk compaired to on the road would be less? Don't just give a pissed of roadie answer, think about it. How many cars pass by you with-in inches of you on even a short ride?

    I thank you for admitting that the little cracks bother the roadies though. I had always wondered if that was a reason.........
    and the lurker returns to the dark corner

  40. #40
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    The follow up news report the other night stated this was the 770th bicycle accident this year in AZ... Wow that is a number.

  41. #41
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    I don't really think you can make a blanket statement that the sidewalk is more dangerous. It depends on the situation and the rider. In most cases, bikes should be in the street, but some of the major arterial roads in the valley are essentially freeways with limited access. Personally, I'd rather ride slower on the sidewalk on those roads as long as there isn't any pedestrian traffic to speak of.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kvnhlstd
    The follow up news report the other night stated this was the 770th bicycle accident this year in AZ... Wow that is a number.
    770th fatal accident?

  43. #43
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    Really excited now to get my first road bike since high-school (20yers ago) on Tuesday...

    Very sad situation for the family of the lost cyclist.

    Did not really want the bike, but free from a family member who no longer has time to ride it. I am slightly nervous, but will try it.
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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm
    Really excited now to get my first road bike since high-school (20yers ago) on Tuesday...

    Did not really want the bike, but free from a family member who no longer has time to ride it. I am slightly nervous, but will try it.
    Congrats on the free bike. Just follow the rules as if you were a car, assume that every car is out to get you, and you'll do just fine. If you must ride the sidewalk, just go slow.

  45. #45
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    Iíve been commuting for about 25 years, and have seen and been the victim of lotís of auto/cycle accidents. So here's the deal for all the sidewalk riders out there. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PEDESTRIANS OR CRACKS IN THE CONCRETE. When an automobile pulls up to a street via a driveway, side-street, parking lot, etc., they are looking for:

    1. Other automobiles on the cross road traveling at vehicular speeds.
    2. Pedestrians on the sidewalk traveling at a walking pace.
    3. And last if at all, bicyclists traveling with traffic on the edge of the road.

    If you are traveling at speeds higher than a normal walk on a sidewalk, then anyone pulling up to the street will not be expecting you to be traveling at that pace, and therefore will not see you, and immediately pull all the way past the sidewalk to the street to make their turn. If you want to, or feel the need to, ride on the sidewalk, then make sure you slow down at every driveway and entry to the road. Do not ride on the sidewalk in the opposite direction of traffic unless you are prepared to slow down to a walking pace at an instant. Sidewalks are meant for traveling at a walking pace.

    Roads are for traveling at vehicular speeds (this includes bicycle speeds), and thatís what people are expecting. I know when you are riding with traffic buzzing you on your left that it is intimidating, but the fact is that while it does happen, the majority of bicycle/auto accidents are not from behind, but are at intersections with an oncoming auto turning left into a cyclist, or side-swiping from a cross street. Sidewalks really are more dangerous overall than riding on the road because no one expects something traveling at 15-20mph on a pedestrian pathway. You are much better on the road as a vehicle and being aware of your surroundings.

    For more info on effective cycling, you can start here: http://www.johnforester.com/ . There is a lot more info out there on the internet about commuting and riding safely, you just have to look, and get out and ride and decide for yourself.

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  47. #47
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    Nice links and info. These will come in handy for a work project.
    This is just need to know information: Am i supposed to enjoy the irony or pity the sincerity?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainflow
    Iíve been commuting for about 25 years, and have seen and been the victim of lotís of auto/cycle accidents. So here's the deal for all the sidewalk riders out there. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PEDESTRIANS OR CRACKS IN THE CONCRETE. When an automobile pulls up to a street via a driveway, side-street, parking lot, etc., they are looking for:

    1. Other automobiles on the cross road traveling at vehicular speeds.
    2. Pedestrians on the sidewalk traveling at a walking pace.
    3. And last if at all, bicyclists traveling with traffic on the edge of the road.

    If you are traveling at speeds higher than a normal walk on a sidewalk, then anyone pulling up to the street will not be expecting you to be traveling at that pace, and therefore will not see you, and immediately pull all the way past the sidewalk to the street to make their turn. If you want to, or feel the need to, ride on the sidewalk, then make sure you slow down at every driveway and entry to the road. Do not ride on the sidewalk in the opposite direction of traffic unless you are prepared to slow down to a walking pace at an instant. Sidewalks are meant for traveling at a walking pace.

    Roads are for traveling at vehicular speeds (this includes bicycle speeds), and thatís what people are expecting. I know when you are riding with traffic buzzing you on your left that it is intimidating, but the fact is that while it does happen, the majority of bicycle/auto accidents are not from behind, but are at intersections with an oncoming auto turning left into a cyclist, or side-swiping from a cross street. Sidewalks really are more dangerous overall than riding on the road because no one expects something traveling at 15-20mph on a pedestrian pathway. You are much better on the road as a vehicle and being aware of your surroundings.

    For more info on effective cycling, you can start here: http://www.johnforester.com/ . There is a lot more info out there on the internet about commuting and riding safely, you just have to look, and get out and ride and decide for yourself.
    I used to cross a five-lane street once during a lull in traffic and ride for a short distance on the sidewalk before turning off the street and riding the Boise River Greenbelt.

    One day while riding the wrong way on the sidewalk a big blue ford pickup pulled out and never saw me. I skidded to a stop right beside him, leaning against his vehicle. As he turned right, the side of his vehicle came even closer and I had to hop to keep from getting crushed by his real wheel. Even then, HE NEVER SAW ME.

    After that, I went ahead and took the extra three minutes to cross at the also-dangerous crosswalk, which gave drivers a green right turn light even when a pedestrian had signaled to cross.
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  49. #49
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    No to sidewalks

    [
    QUOTE=Whyaduck]I don't really think you can make a blanket statement that the sidewalk is more dangerous. It depends on the situation and the rider. In most cases, bikes should be in the street, but some of the major arterial roads in the valley are essentially freeways with limited access. Personally, I'd rather ride slower on the sidewalk on those roads as long as there isn't any pedestrian traffic to speak of.
    First I have been commuting from 7th street and Greenway to 34st and Washington since 1990. I've had a few close calls but so far so good.

    Cars coming around you are scary but they are not the primary danger especially if you make an effort to be seen. None of my close calls were due to cars passing to close on my left shoulder. All were cars that turned on me, either in front of me or turning right as they pass.

    And that is the problem with the sidewalk. Drivers are not looking for bikes or anything else traveling at 10 mph much less 15 to 20 mph on the sidewalk. If there are driveways crossing the sidewalk they are way more dangerous. BTW as nice as bike paths are, they can be part of the problem when they evaporate at the intersection or when the right hand turn lane crosses over them. I would almost prefer a road with an ample shoulder to a bike path because drivers are more likely to see you.

    My rules of the road are...

    Ride like I'm invisible to every car I can see and make myself as visible as possible for those I can't see

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideandshoot
    Ride like I'm invisible to every car I can see and make myself as visible as possible for those I can't see

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideandshoot
    First I have been commuting from 7th street and Greenway to 34st and Washington since 1990. I've had a few close calls but so far so good.

    Cars coming around you are scary but they are not the primary danger especially if you make an effort to be seen. None of my close calls were due to cars passing to close on my left shoulder. All were cars that turned on me, either in front of me or turning right as they pass.

    And that is the problem with the sidewalk. Drivers are not looking for bikes or anything else traveling at 10 mph much less 15 to 20 mph on the sidewalk. If there are driveways crossing the sidewalk they are way more dangerous. BTW as nice as bike paths are, they can be part of the problem when they evaporate at the intersection or when the right hand turn lane crosses over them. I would almost prefer a road with an ample shoulder to a bike path because drivers are more likely to see you.

    My rules of the road are...

    Ride like I'm invisible to every car I can see and make myself as visible as possible for those I can't see
    I spent a number of years riding in city traffic (Boston) and I feel qualified to judge the safety of my cycling choices. As I said, in general, bikes belong on the road. However, if you don't know how to recognize that you are visible (unless you've made eye contact with the motorist, you probably aren't), or recognize a driveway or side road and understand what you need to do on approach, I'm not sure that there's any safe place for you to ride.

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