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  1. #1
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    Advanced Topics in Ghettotubelessology

    A few random tidbits some might find useful.

    Strapping tape overlayed with pipe wrap works great, but it took a few tries to really get the feel for it. Keep trying, be patient. I swapped tires on my AM bike, which generally gets beat to snot, and was really impressed how my last wrap job is still in great shape. It was probably my 3rd or 4th try, and finally its a keeper.

    Valve stems - I've come to be pretty committed to the replaceable valve cores. Yes, its a bit pricier ($7/per), but imo the advantages are several. 1). You don't break your bead, so you don't stick levers etc all into your rim, so your pipe wrap stays in better shape. 2). Inflation and mounting is *SO* much easier with the core removed, its kinda a no-brainer now. Cleaner, faster, less aggravating. 3). the NoTubes have a rubber cone built up along the base, and it does a nice job of seating so you don't get leaks around the valve stem. Easier to build up, easier to maintain. 4), if you have removable cores, spending another $7 for the NoTubes injector or a comparable device is worthwhile. Its just simple and so much cleaner.

    rubber chunks in your spunk - some people use glitter, PaulB suggested to me grinding up part of an old tube. I used an asp on the big nobbies of a crappy old tire I was replacing to come up with a teaspoon or so of rubber powder. Free, easy. I found a tube wrapped around a piece of wood to be harder to hold while grinding. I tried a food processor but it couldn't chew up the rubber. I also tried a drill with a sander bit, and that worked pretty good but holding it was again a problem. Just the old tire was easiest. Obviously, take the rubber not down into the casing.

    In general, the more you do this the easier it gets. part is skill and methodology, but running more rims this way you get more value from your specific purchases, so you have the "toolkit" around and the costs get spread over all your wheels. Pipe wrap and strapping tape are handy things to have in your shop also.

    Appreciate any other tips anyone might have...
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    A few random tidbits some might find useful.

    Strapping tape overlayed with pipe wrap works great, but it took a few tries to really get the feel for it. Keep trying, be patient. I swapped tires on my AM bike, which generally gets beat to snot, and was really impressed how my last wrap job is still in great shape. It was probably my 3rd or 4th try, and finally its a keeper.

    Valve stems - I've come to be pretty committed to the replaceable valve cores. Yes, its a bit pricier ($7/per), but imo the advantages are several. 1). You don't break your bead, so you don't stick levers etc all into your rim, so your pipe wrap stays in better shape. 2). Inflation and mounting is *SO* much easier with the core removed, its kinda a no-brainer now. Cleaner, faster, less aggravating. 3). the NoTubes have a rubber cone built up along the base, and it does a nice job of seating so you don't get leaks around the valve stem. Easier to build up, easier to maintain. 4), if you have removable cores, spending another $7 for the NoTubes injector or a comparable device is worthwhile. Its just simple and so much cleaner.

    rubber chunks in your spunk - some people use glitter, PaulB suggested to me grinding up part of an old tube. I used an asp on the big nobbies of a crappy old tire I was replacing to come up with a teaspoon or so of rubber powder. Free, easy. I found a tube wrapped around a piece of wood to be harder to hold while grinding. I tried a food processor but it couldn't chew up the rubber. I also tried a drill with a sander bit, and that worked pretty good but holding it was again a problem. Just the old tire was easiest. Obviously, take the rubber not down into the casing.

    In general, the more you do this the easier it gets. part is skill and methodology, but running more rims this way you get more value from your specific purchases, so you have the "toolkit" around and the costs get spread over all your wheels. Pipe wrap and strapping tape are handy things to have in your shop also.

    Appreciate any other tips anyone might have...
    Try using a tube as something to hold the air within the tire!

  3. #3
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    A couple tips from the (It can't hurt dept) borrowed from Traildoc:

    1) add a little dishwashing soap - for the Caffe Latex effect

    2) for new converts - milk your old Slime tubes for spunk
    Seriously, I got over 20 oz of recycled juice for my next "attempt"

    I used the Gorilla Duct Tape 1" roll and it's perfect for my rims.
    Last edited by Noelg; 10-06-2009 at 12:48 PM.
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    for your ruber chunks, to your local automotive tire shop. and ask or look for where they keep the "junk" tires. find a tire that had been ran flat and will have handfulls of very fine shaved rubber in it almost like ruber sand.

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    Converted from Pipe tape to Gorrilla tape... easier plus a lot more adhesion.

  6. #6
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    Here's a useful tidbit:

    If your sealant hasn't dried up at the same point at which your tire needs to be replaced,
    then you aren't riding enough!

    ;-)
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by 88mustanggt
    for your ruber chunks, to your local automotive tire shop. and ask or look for where they keep the "junk" tires. find a tire that had been ran flat and will have handfulls of very fine shaved rubber in it almost like ruber sand.
    Great idea thank you. gonna try that next time I cruise by Discount Tire, and just fill up an old tupperware to last a long time. curious, but, if the tire goes flat how does all the particles get on the inside?
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    Whether using pipe or gorilla, do you tape right over the factory rim tape, or first remove it and clean off the residue?
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    when someone drives on a tire that is very low on pressure it builds up heat and friction breaking down the tire from the inside from extreme flexing on the side wall and the side wall actually roling along the ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Whether using pipe or gorilla, do you tape right over the factory rim tape, or first remove it and clean off the residue?
    i remove the factory tape, and lay down a layer of strapping tape. very cheap, very tough and sticky. This emulates the base layer they use in the NoTubes conversion (not to be confused with the NoTubes yellow tape). My *guess* is that it seals the spoke holes whereas the factory strip can slide around. strapping tape also weighs less, but the pipe wrap\gorilla tape will add that back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    i remove the factory tape, and lay down a layer of strapping tape. very cheap, very tough and sticky. This emulates the base layer they use in the NoTubes conversion (not to be confused with the NoTubes yellow tape). My *guess* is that it seals the spoke holes whereas the factory strip can slide around. strapping tape also weighs less, but the pipe wrap\gorilla tape will add that back.
    Is this what you mean when you say 'strapping tape'?

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  12. #12
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    yes. you'll find it in Home Depot, ACE etc near packing tape. Its just heavier duty with fiber running through it. Depending on width, you may have to slice it to fit into the center notch of your rim.
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    Quick question, not sure it matters though. Are you putting the strapping tape on first, and then the valve stem, or putting in the stem and applying the strapping tape on top and then the pipe tape over that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainflow
    Quick question, not sure it matters though. Are you putting the strapping tape on first, and then the valve stem, or putting in the stem and applying the strapping tape on top and then the pipe tape over that?
    I do the stapping tape, then the pipe wrap. then slice a small x into it all with an exacto and put in the valve stem. Even if yuo do your own conversion, give a look to the vids on the NoTubes site as they will give you some ideas. But with the tapes both being so cheap, its not a big deal if you screw up as you learn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball
    A few random tidbits some might find useful.

    Strapping tape overlayed with pipe wrap works great, but it took a few tries to really get the feel for it. Keep trying, be patient. I swapped tires on my AM bike, which generally gets beat to snot, and was really impressed how my last wrap job is still in great shape. It was probably my 3rd or 4th try, and finally its a keeper.

    Valve stems - I've come to be pretty committed to the replaceable valve cores. Yes, its a bit pricier ($7/per), but imo the advantages are several. 1). You don't break your bead, so you don't stick levers etc all into your rim, so your pipe wrap stays in better shape. 2). Inflation and mounting is *SO* much easier with the core removed, its kinda a no-brainer now. Cleaner, faster, less aggravating. 3). the NoTubes have a rubber cone built up along the base, and it does a nice job of seating so you don't get leaks around the valve stem. Easier to build up, easier to maintain. 4), if you have removable cores, spending another $7 for the NoTubes injector or a comparable device is worthwhile. Its just simple and so much cleaner.

    rubber chunks in your spunk - some people use glitter, PaulB suggested to me grinding up part of an old tube. I used an asp on the big nobbies of a crappy old tire I was replacing to come up with a teaspoon or so of rubber powder. Free, easy. I found a tube wrapped around a piece of wood to be harder to hold while grinding. I tried a food processor but it couldn't chew up the rubber. I also tried a drill with a sander bit, and that worked pretty good but holding it was again a problem. Just the old tire was easiest. Obviously, take the rubber not down into the casing.

    In general, the more you do this the easier it gets. part is skill and methodology, but running more rims this way you get more value from your specific purchases, so you have the "toolkit" around and the costs get spread over all your wheels. Pipe wrap and strapping tape are handy things to have in your shop also.

    Appreciate any other tips anyone might have...
    Good Lord chollaball -----I really started something odd , ---anyway --I just use one rap of the pipe tape and let her rip , ------I like things simple and light .

    I have not ever had any problem at all , and I have done many for guys that are still using it today ,

    way easier and cleaner and lighter than the innertube method

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    IMO You can skip the strapping tape with gorrilla tape.. I do then tape in my valve as it has been the source of most of my problems..

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    Quick question... any advantages/disadvantages to using the split tube method vs the tape method for ghetto tubeless?

    When I converted to ghetto tubeless, I did the split tube method because someone had mentioned that the metal/tire interface in the tape method tends to burp causing the tire to un-seat. The problem I am having now with the split tube is that I have presta valves and it's a pain to try and remove the valve core to fill it with Stans.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro
    Quick question... any advantages/disadvantages to using the split tube method vs the tape method for ghetto tubeless?

    When I converted to ghetto tubeless, I did the split tube method because someone had mentioned that the metal/tire interface in the tape method tends to burp causing the tire to un-seat. The problem I am having now with the split tube is that I have presta valves and it's a pain to try and remove the valve core to fill it with Stans.
    Maybe switch to Caffelatex, Guitar Ted says the stuff doesn't dry up and can be injected through a presta with the valve in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro
    Quick question... any advantages/disadvantages to using the split tube method vs the tape method for ghetto tubeless?

    When I converted to ghetto tubeless, I did the split tube method because someone had mentioned that the metal/tire interface in the tape method tends to burp causing the tire to un-seat. The problem I am having now with the split tube is that I have presta valves and it's a pain to try and remove the valve core to fill it with Stans.
    This is just one of the many problems with the tube method , ---- not to metion the weight ,not to mention the mess if you do rip a sidewall out and have to remove the split tube with stans all over it --------
    The tape just makes it like a factory wheel that will let you run stans or a tube and many different tires just like a wheel should be ----and it lets the tire correctly bead on the rim like it should .

    ( of course most of the 29er wheels and their tires really do not work well yet --------they are getting better -----but I still see alot of problems with the road bike wheels on mountainbikes anyways ---------but thats just me )

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    ( of course most of the 29er wheels and their tires really do not work well yet --------they are getting better -----but I still see alot of problems...)
    Kelstr, any recommendation on tires that you've had good / bad success with?
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Kelstr, any recommendation on tires that you've had good / bad success with?

    Small block 8 in the rear and geax saguaro in the front. Both sealed up just fine on my 29er using the tape method and they work well too!

  22. #22
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    Odl tire for rubber chunks = PURE GENIUS.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

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    IMHO I would not use strapping tape. It's great when its in the rim, but if anything happens to it and you have to take it out your f***ed! It took me probably 4 hours of pealing and scraping and soaking with sticky remover for me to get it all out.

    I just use pipe tape by itself and its been workin out great.

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    Is anyone using shrader valves instead of presta valves? Much easier to remove the core and add sealant without having to mess with the tire.
    My brain went from "you probably shouldn't say that" to WTF!

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    I'm actually going to try this over the weekend. I have a couple of old motorcycle tubes with threaded schrader valves that I think will work great. I'm hoping to not have to use a compressor with the higher volume of the schrader valve and the core removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Kelstr, any recommendation on tires that you've had good / bad success with?
    Well , I am a moron and can ruin an anvil without a hammer --------that being said ,------I also like to ride Somo alot and just pound the down hills ,--------so after tearing several normal tires all to hell , I am now running the Specialized Chunder SX DH tires -------a 2.5 in the ft and a 2.5 or 2.3 in the rear .--( and they are a huge 2.3 or 2.5 tire ----the 2.5 is like a 2.7 )

    now these tires are like 1350 grams apice -------------so I am probably not the right guy to ask about tires .

    I had to really get stronger to pedal the dam things ( I am still a week old man --but i try hard )


    Like jdpowers said that little small block 8 is a great tire for the rear and the saguaro for the ft ---------I have put these on for guys on their big wheeled bikes and they love this combo, --------but I have not ridden this combo on big wheels .

    Im an idiot and i need some heavier thicker smaller 26er stuff for now .

  27. #27
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    Can someone provide a link to purchase the $7 stem? Couldn't find them on my last attempt. Lucky me, all set with the split tube ghetto.

    Great thread Cholla.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zul
    Can someone provide a link to purchase the $7 stem? Couldn't find them on my last attempt. Lucky me, all set with the split tube ghetto.

    Great thread Cholla.
    zul:

    My next door neighbor reused his split tube on two tire changes so far. I wonder if you could use RUBBER cement between the tube and rim tape to hold it in place. The main problem I see is removing the old tire w/o puncturing the split tube.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainflow
    I'm actually going to try this over the weekend. I have a couple of old motorcycle tubes with threaded schrader valves that I think will work great. I'm hoping to not have to use a compressor with the higher volume of the schrader valve and the core removed.
    I drilled my rims for schrader. They work great. I cut a small hole in the top of the stans bottle so i don't even need a syringe to fill the rims. Has held up for ~2 months no issues. big fan of the ghetto method. runing 2.35 nevegals front and back at 27/30 psi with no burping as well.

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    Split tube

    I've been running the split tube (20" with removable presta valve) and I love it. My tires are WTB folding bead and my rims are Mavic. No burping, no leaking and of course no flats.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

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    I can imagine that the split tube method is far more burb-proof than the tape wrap method, however, I'm going to give the tape wrap method a shot and see how it goes. I'm a trail rider not a huckster so I hope it will be fine for my uses. I like that's it's a simpler setup. If it gives me grief, no loss I can always try split tube.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    I can imagine that the split tube method is far more burb-proof than the tape wrap method, however, I'm going to give the tape wrap method a shot and see how it goes. I'm a trail rider not a huckster so I hope it will be fine for my uses. I like that's it's a simpler setup. If it gives me grief, no loss I can always try split tube.
    You have a Hei Hei right? Are you still running the original Ignitors it came with?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdpowers
    You have a Hei Hei right? Are you still running the original Ignitors it came with?
    Hei Hei 2-9, yeah.

    I have been running a Small Block 8 the rear and Nevegal up front, love the SB8 but I cut the sidewall the other day on a random rock near the DD horse tunnel. Nevegal, meh - I'm not crazy about it.

    I've got a set of Kenda Klaw's that I think I'm going to run for a few months and will try those with the tape wrap method.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Hei Hei 2-9, yeah.

    I have been running a Small Block 8 the rear and Nevegal up front, love the SB8 but I cut the sidewall the other day on a random rock near the DD horse tunnel. Nevegal, meh - I'm not crazy about it.

    I've got a set of Kenda Klaw's that I think I'm going to run for a few months and will try those with the tape wrap method.
    SB8's seal up well, don't know about the Klaw's. The Ignitors would not seal for me, thankfully they are on the backup wheelset anyways. Good luck!

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    ok, so maybe the Klaw's aren't a good choice to try tubeless...

    Well I've got some random tires around that I can try instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    I can imagine that the split tube method is far more burb-proof than the tape wrap method, however, I'm going to give the tape wrap method a shot and see how it goes. I'm a trail rider not a huckster so I hope it will be fine for my uses. I like that's it's a simpler setup. If it gives me grief, no loss I can always try split tube.
    I've never tried the tape wrap method, though that seems to be the way most people are doing it. I went with the split tube for several reasons and I have been very happy with it.
    The main drawbacks on the split tube method are probably the cost and setup time. The benefits IMO are less chance of burping and a better seal at the bead. I haven't put air in my tires for 6 weeks.

    If you do rip a sidewall and need to put in a tube the split tube just comes right out with the valve stem and everything. If you have to put a tube in using the wrap method you're going to have to dig out your valve stem. I bet that's alot messier than just pulling out the split tube which comes out easy and in one piece.

    I'm hope you enjoy many flatless rides when you're done.I know I have, going ghetto was one of the best upgrades I've done.
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    I went to Performance today and I had an idea. Not sure if anyone else has tried this but my rims are not drilled for schrader and I was trying to figure out the easiest way to add Stan's on presta valves with the split tube method. most people suggested breaking the bead or chopping off the top of the core to take the nut off and catch the valve in the tire if you can.

    Instead of all of that, I noticed that the pre-slimed tubes with prestas have removable valve cores! I bought some and I plan to clean out the slime and just mount that tube for ghetto tubeless and pour stan into the presta valve with the core removed.

    Anybody try this before?

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    Protip

    If you're running ghetto and use a presta valve this applies to you. You can get everything you need to top up on the Stans without popping the bead and all it will cost you is a fiver.
    Got to local pet store and purchase a small animal feeding syringe and while you're there pick up a foot of airline that is used for fish tanks. Buy the quality airline the kind that is blue in color(it's important to get the blue line because it is pliable). Put your airline on the syringe fill with Stans. Remove your valve core and and slip the airline over the valve stem, one steady push on the plunger and all that is left is to put your core back in and inflate.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro
    I went to Performance today and I had an idea. Not sure if anyone else has tried this but my rims are not drilled for schrader and I was trying to figure out the easiest way to add Stan's on presta valves with the split tube method. most people suggested breaking the bead or chopping off the top of the core to take the nut off and catch the valve in the tire if you can.

    Instead of all of that, I noticed that the pre-slimed tubes with prestas have removable valve cores! I bought some and I plan to clean out the slime and just mount that tube for ghetto tubeless and pour stan into the presta valve with the core removed.

    Anybody try this before?
    That will work, except the hole is so small on Presta valves it's very hard to just pour in the Stans. I posted above on how to add Stans easily, hope it helps.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

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    Quote Originally Posted by kapaso
    Protip

    If you're running ghetto and use a presta valve this applies to you. You can get everything you need to top up on the Stans without popping the bead and all it will cost you is a fiver.
    Got to local pet store and purchase a small animal feeding syringe and while you're there pick up a foot of airline that is used for fish tanks. Buy the quality airline the kind that is blue in color(it's important to get the blue line because it is pliable). Put your airline on the syringe fill with Stans. Remove your valve core and and slip the airline over the valve stem, one steady push on the plunger and all that is left is to put your core back in and inflate.
    Thanks for the tip! I went looking for syringes the other day and CVS only had tiny 10cc ones... waaaay too small. Was planning on going to a medical supply place but the pet store definitely sounds much easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro
    Thanks for the tip! I went looking for syringes the other day and CVS only had tiny 10cc ones... waaaay too small. Was planning on going to a medical supply place but the pet store definitely sounds much easier.
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  43. #43
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    I've been thinking about trying the tape method rather than the split tube but I'm still hesitant . Not sure if that setup will be as bulletproof for DH and jumping. The simpler setup definitely appeals to me though, as well as the cost (buying those thorn resistant tubes is getting old).
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  44. #44
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    I've done both methods on several different wheels, different tires. I much prefer the tape method as it's cleaner. What I've found, though, is this method is very dependent on bead/rim interface. If you've got a tire with a nice tight bead -- in other words, you can't get it on the rim by hand -- tape works well.

    If you end up with a loose-bead tire, the split tube methods works better.

  45. #45
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    I've used pipe tape and mavic UST valve stems on my fleet for the last year or so with no problems. The Stans always outlasts my tires up here in Prescott.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    I've been thinking about trying the tape method rather than the split tube but I'm still hesitant . Not sure if that setup will be as bulletproof for DH and jumping. The simpler setup definitely appeals to me though, as well as the cost (buying those thorn resistant tubes is getting old).
    It is so much cleaner and simple , easier to add sealant if need be rather than through the core ,( wich is silly ---Ive seen alot of sticky leaking and half plugged prestas because of adding this way )
    if you rip a sidewall you just pop a tube in and go , rather than figure out what you do with the messy split tube dripping with stans you now have all over your clothes and have to store in your gear to pack it out

    The 29er rim and tires are the problems ones when it comes to tire to rim fit, some of those just don't work well ( Tape or split tube method ), they are getting better but they do have a ways to go yet.
    And yes some of the cheep 26er tires do not fit well either , But most of us would not run the cheep old loose fitting tires for the type of pounding we do on these All Mountain bikes today.

    I run extremely low pressures and just pound DH on mine and do not have any problems .

    The tire actually seat to the bead of the rim like it should .

  47. #47
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    Yeah, having the bead burp is what I'm concerned with. I've managed to do that a couple of times even with the tube method (Bootleg and 24th street). Adding sealant is no problem since I only use schraeder tubes ( I use a Hayes bleed kit to inject Stan's). My biggest concern is maintaining the bead even after pinging the rim. My wheels are never in perfect shape after a couple of weeks of riding
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  48. #48
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    Ken use gorrilla tape.. easy even if cheesy.. you run tires with semi substantial sidewalls you have nothing to worry about. If you haven't bought gorrilla tape you'll be amazed I thought it was some overhyped black duct tape but it is way stronger and stickier, my problem with pipe tape was the tapes adhesion for whatever reason the edges would curl up and then fail--so far so good on gorrilla tape even with my super tough to seal up not to be used tubeless Salsa rim..

  49. #49
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    Utter failure trying to get the tire to inflate. I used 1" pipe wrap and fashioned my own stem from an old blown tube, used a compressor with a presta to schrader adapter and couldn't get the tire to inflate.

    After I gave upcand mounted with a tube somebody asked if I used soapy water... No, what is the trick?
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  50. #50
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    Soapy water lets the bead slide to the rim edge from it's resting point in the rim channel, without it the tire rubber has to much friction against the tape...

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Utter failure trying to get the tire to inflate. I used 1" pipe wrap and fashioned my own stem from an old blown tube, used a compressor with a presta to schrader adapter and couldn't get the tire to inflate.

    After I gave upcand mounted with a tube somebody asked if I used soapy water... No, what is the trick?
    soapy water helps, but nothing beats having the core removed and cranking your compressor to about 100psi output.
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  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Utter failure trying to get the tire to inflate. I used 1" pipe wrap and fashioned my own stem from an old blown tube, used a compressor with a presta to schrader adapter and couldn't get the tire to inflate.

    After I gave upcand mounted with a tube somebody asked if I used soapy water... No, what is the trick?
    It might also be the compressor/presta to schrader combo. With 29er tires the air has to quickly flow into the tire to get it to seal, sometimes this requires a removable core presta and a straight line of air into the tire. If you are using those shrader car type tips they really restrict the speed of the air going into the tire.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    My biggest concern is maintaining the bead even after pinging the rim. My wheels are never in perfect shape after a couple of weeks of riding
    Kenny,

    If the setup is right the seal is not determined by the condition of the rim WALLS, but the rim BED and the rubber/whatever strip there.

    I had a Stan's Flow rim that I landed catywompus off a jump, rolled the tire off sideways (*not* stopping it when a 200$ rider lands badly), and a great gunshot, didn't wreck but wrestled the bike to a stop - dragging/rolling the rear rim through the limestone rock mix. The rim outside looked like heck and there was dirt and crap all through the tire.

    Didn't even pull the wheel off the bike, just rag-wiped down the contact bits, re-seated the tire, used CO2, finished the ride. No problem. I was amazed.

    Now, YOU, if I recall correctly, may have a WEE BIT more potential for flat-spotting a rim ... of course if you do that hard enough the tubless can't seat I'd think it unridable.

    I second the notion that was brought up that the setup where you can remove the valve core only and pop in a tube in emergency, over the rubber-strip based setup, is much more convenient in bad moments.

    Contrarily, I think a properly setup rubber-strip configuration is more forgiving of bad landings and has less likelihood for burpage because you can set it up to be a bit more built up, and the contact point between the tire/strip where the air seal is maintained can be a bit more resilient that just the yellow tape.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Utter failure trying to get the tire to inflate. I used 1" pipe wrap and fashioned my own stem from an old blown tube, used a compressor with a presta to schrader adapter and couldn't get the tire to inflate.

    After I gave upcand mounted with a tube somebody asked if I used soapy water... No, what is the trick?
    Soap is a good helping hand ----but the big thing is that most guys and shops do not have a real large supply of air,-----

    If you have a 100 gallon tank of 200 psi of air comming out of a 1" hose ----the tire will jump on the wheel.

    I can mount a 10 speed tire on a 12" mag truck wheel !!

    Having real clean dry air is such life saver , ---------you should see my plasma cutter work with strong clean dry air

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenbentit
    Yeah, having the bead burp is what I'm concerned with. My biggest concern is maintaining the bead even after pinging the rim. My wheels are never in perfect shape after a couple of weeks of riding
    I hear you , I don't get a ride in whithout denting a wheel somewhere, ------the tire will stay seated whithout problem ,---

    I take my tires off and sometimes take out my spokes and repair my dents and flat spots about every 3 months and re-lace , true and give um another go .

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    Utter failure trying to get the tire to inflate. I used 1" pipe wrap and fashioned my own stem from an old blown tube, used a compressor with a presta to schrader adapter and couldn't get the tire to inflate.

    After I gave upcand mounted with a tube somebody asked if I used soapy water... No, what is the trick?
    The trick, having done this for a LOT of years now, is to have the right combination of tire and rim. There are some established "good matches" and lots of very "bad matches" out there. That said, I never use compressed air and pretty consistently seat a tire using nothing but supersoapy water + a floor pump.

    Experience goes a ways. I do some tricks with rolling the rim over the tire, bouncing the whole wheel while I'm pumping, etc. etc. I don't even know how to describe what all I do. But the bottom line is, it's totally do-able w/o a compressor.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    It is so much cleaner and simple , easier to add sealant if need be rather than through the core ,( wich is silly ---Ive seen alot of sticky leaking and half plugged prestas because of adding this way )
    if you rip a sidewall you just pop a tube in and go , rather than figure out what you do with the messy split tube dripping with stans you now have all over your clothes and have to store in your gear to pack it out

    The 29er rim and tires are the problems ones when it comes to tire to rim fit, some of those just don't work well ( Tape or split tube method ), they are getting better but they do have a ways to go yet.
    And yes some of the cheep 26er tires do not fit well either , But most of us would not run the cheep old loose fitting tires for the type of pounding we do on these All Mountain bikes today.

    I run extremely low pressures and just pound DH on mine and do not have any problems .

    The tire actually seat to the bead of the rim like it should .
    So do you pop your bead to add sealant every time?

    I only ask because I know many who run tubeless have a hard time seating it on the bead. I have a compressor, but many riders don't. Even with the compressor my rear tire did not want to seat. Adding sealant through the valve shouldn't be problem, at least it never has for me. Popping the bead is practical when you have good compressor but if you don't thats a pain. If my Presta's do become clogged (that can happen no matter how the sealant is added) I think I will remove the core and flush it out.

    I think the difference between the tube method and the tape methods are minimal. I've seen both work very well. The tube method has not been messy for me at all and if I have a major problem I can undo it easily, as opposed to spending hours trying to remove sticky adhesive from my rims.
    "What kind of bike? I don't know, I'm not a bike scientist."

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapaso
    So do you pop your bead to add sealant every time?

    I only ask because I know many who run tubeless have a hard time seating it on the bead. I have a compressor, but many riders don't. Even with the compressor my rear tire did not want to seat. Adding sealant through the valve shouldn't be problem, at least it never has for me. Popping the bead is practical when you have good compressor but if you don't thats a pain. If my Presta's do become clogged (that can happen no matter how the sealant is added) I think I will remove the core and flush it out.

    I think the difference between the tube method and the tape methods are minimal. I've seen both work very well. The tube method has not been messy for me at all and if I have a major problem I can undo it easily, as opposed to spending hours trying to remove sticky adhesive from my rims.
    Yep, I will just pop the tire in one spot dump it in and go , -----Real Air is something that is so helpful with all sorts of jobs , ----a guy just can't be without it , I can seat any tire wheel combo in seconds.

    Actually the tape will pull right off in seconds if need be , If you use the pipe tape , thats why I use it .

    Generally my tires don't out last the stans I put in .
    My set up will go 3 months to 100 days in the summer and the stans will last all winter if need be .
    I see guys run their tires way way to long , -------I can tell the handling of the bike gets off and of course the traction for climbing goes away , so I like to keep tires fresh all the time .

  59. #59
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    kepaso, I use the valves with a removable core so I can add through the valve stem w/o clogging. I have a nice screwdriver-like tool for removing/replacing the valve core that makes it easy-peasy.

  60. #60
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    The more soap the better, Stan's instructions tell you to mix it pretty soapy. It actually helps to seal gaps momentarily when it is thick enough.
    Also, hang your wheel if you take it off your bike. Don't let the tire touch anything when you are trying to inflate it.
    I have used Prowlers, Exiwolfs, and Ignitors on a 29er successfully with laserdisc trail rims. The Ignitors were the sloppiest fit, but sealed up no problem.

  61. #61
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    Gonna give the gorilla tape method a shot when my tires get in.
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  62. #62
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    For those of us new to this, here are two videos where a guy walks through his entire proceedure.

    I don't see where the string part is necessary, and I'm using Pipe Wrap tape which comes in 1" - no need to cut a 2" tape in half.
    Seems like a good idea how he tries to set the bead by hand before inflating.
    He covers his ghetto stem with tape, not sure this is necessary.

    Video 1 of 2
    Video 2 of 2

    I ordered some new Saguaro's today, and will retry this method when the new tires come in.
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  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    For those of us new to this, here are two videos where a guy walks through his entire proceedure.

    I don't see where the string part is necessary, and I'm using Pipe Wrap tape which comes in 1" - no need to cut a 2" tape in half.
    Seems like a good idea how he tries to set the bead by hand before inflating.
    He covers his ghetto stem with tape, not sure this is necessary.

    Video 1 of 2
    Video 2 of 2

    I ordered some new Saguaro's today, and will retry this method when the new tires come in.
    He sure goes the long way around the block, -----your correct the string is a wast of time.
    And use a correct tubeless valve stem with a removable core-----the home made stems do work but they are week.
    And you do not tape the valve stem back down to the wheel, ----that is not necessary, ---you use a pick or pin to add the hole in the tape and insert the stem and your done , -----he cut the tape with slots using a box cutter and you will not get a seal with an X cut in your tape.

    Also be carefull using the 1" wide tape , I find Its better to get the tape all the way up on the rim and actually fold it over the outside of the rim on both sides, then install the tire and now you have made a bladder in the wheel and then you can trim it off ----or not .

    Either way using either tape its a clean set up and it works really well .

    The videos give a guy a good look at the task .

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