Shame on Kali -- glorifying brain-injury is no way to market your brand- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Shame on Kali -- glorifying brain-injury is no way to market your brand

    Kali Protectives is a leader in the (belated) movement towards safer bike helmets. I've said here many times (like here, here, and here) that their dual-density foam is one of the most promising concussion-reducing options out there. It's the main reason I bought a Kali Maya instead of a MIPS helmet when I wanted a safer helmet myself. And their bumper-fit technology (so far only in a road helmet) looks even better. Kali and its founder, Brad Waldron, has shown a sustained, serious commitment to improving bike helmet design to reduce concussions.

    So what in the world is Kali doing glorifying brain injury to market their brand?

    Earlier this month, Kali released a video entitled "How to Crash with Nicholi Rogatkin." Here's the link. Rogatkin is a Kali-sponsored pro freerider, and the video purports to show his "top 10 crashes," narrated by him. Rogatkin's off-the-charts physical bravery is on full display. It's mind-blowing.

    It's also deeply, deeply disturbing.

    From the video:
    - 0:16 -- "I've always said that I'm not opposed to crashing as long as I can get up."
    - 0:54 -- "Direct faceplant!" 16 foot drop onto his face. "But, went on to win that day, so slam to win I guess."
    - 1:52 -- "Just corpse out."
    - 2:12 "Didn't know where I was for the entirety of it. And didn't feel great, at all, the impact was definitely not pleasant. But got up and tried it 3 more times. None of which were successful."
    - 3:04. This is the most disturbing MTB brain-impact footage I've ever seen. He over-rotates a front-flip, whipping his head into the dirt from 4 stories up. The sound of helmet slamming and bouncing is clearly audible 50 feet away. "It looks horrifying and the impact is even worse. Definitely thought I was going to go to sleep right here, but somehow not unconscious. And got up and rode the next day." Whoever gave this video the thumbs-up at Kali should be fired.
    - 3:26. "Falling off a 40 foot cliff. But also the best case scenario is I somehow got up and continued the run!"
    - 3:45. "Just listen to the impact. The pain is as bad as it looks. [Huge crash, head snaps into ground like the end of a rolled-up beach towel.] And then just slowly fade to black."

    The Pinkbike commenters got the message loud and clear. "Kali must be pretty proud of how well their products stand up to this dude." "He has to be the toughest guy in MTB." "Some solid lessons here on how to escape bad situations." "Keep charging hard kid." "What a beast, tough as nails!"

    It's CTE porn. It's the mountain-biking version of those old NFL Films "bone crunchers" films. It's selling a product by glorifying the toughness of athletes for causing themselves life-altering brain trauma.

    My daughter is 5. She's a ripper on the pumptrack and riding puts a huge smile on her face. She loves watching mountain bike videos on my phone with me. What message would she get from your video, Brad Waldron? Don't be opposed to crashing as long as you can get up? Ride the next day? Slam to win?

    Kali's website says, "If you care about your brain, you gotta get Kali." Kali, if you care about your brand and you care about the future of mountain biking, you gotta get a clue.
    Last edited by OldManBike; 02-19-2016 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #2
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    People have to be responsible for their own actions. If I hurt myself because I hit my head really hard while riding a mountain bike, I can't blame that on the many hours I've spent watching someone else hit their head while riding a mountain bike. If anything, It has tought me that if shit can happen to the best, I can happen to me a lot easier. After watching this kind of video, it's note to self: Be more careful! When I had 10 hours of reconstructive surgery to my face after I fuxked up a big double jump, I didn't blame the people who I have seen do the same thing. The only one to blame was me.

    Oh BTW, those crashes weren't nearly as bad as you made them out to be. Pretty much standard stuff for someone who rides at that level.
    Last edited by Mountain Cycle Shawn; 02-19-2016 at 07:14 PM.

  3. #3
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    Talk about blowing something out of proportion...

    Perhaps you should take up golf

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Oh BTW, those crashes weren't nearly as bad as you made them out to be. Pretty much standard stuff for someone who rides at that level.
    I don't disagree that those crashes are 'pretty much standard stuff these days for someone who rides at that level.'

    I strongly disagree that that means they aren't a big deal. Rather the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    Talk about blowing something out of proportion...

    Perhaps you should take up golf

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    Yes, exactly, that's exactly what I'm talking about. When people first starting talking about the toll that CTE was taking on NFL players, the immediate response was "take up golf" and similar tough-guy witticism. It took a while before anyone gave a sh!t about the pro athletes whose brains were getting ruined. Mountain biking still hasn't gotten there, and its videos like this one that are part of the reason.

  6. #6
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    I have a Kali, a Maya, I think. It's comfortable, but it's incompatible with every single set of eyewear I have. Also incompatible with my light. No love lost from me.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Yes, exactly, that's exactly what I'm talking about. When people first starting talking about the toll that CTE was taking on NFL players, the immediate response was "take up golf" and similar tough-guy witticism. It took a while before anyone gave a sh!t about the pro athletes whose brains were getting ruined. Mountain biking still hasn't gotten there, and its videos like this one that are part of the reason.
    I'm not trying to be a tough guy, just saying that injuries are an unfortunate reality for riders that push their limits. That shouldn't be shocking news to anyone.

    Same with the NFL. Football is an inherently violent sport. They play the game knowing full well what the consequences may be.

    Is there no accountability anymore? Or are we just gonna blame everything on someone else? Everyone knows that crashing has consequences, I don't think this video is gonna change anything

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    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    Is there no accountability anymore? Or are we just gonna blame everything on someone else? Everyone knows that crashing has consequences, I don't think this video is gonna change anything.
    Accountability is exactly what my original post was about. Kali decided to market their brand by promoting brain-injury-causing behavior, and I think they should be accountable for that. Everyone's accountable for their choices.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Accountability is exactly what my original post was about. Kali decided to market their brand by promoting brain-injury-causing behavior, and I think they should be accountable for that. Everyone's accountable for their choices.
    Oh please...

    I don't think this ad is gonna make anyone go huck off a cliff that otherwise wouldn't. If anything, wouldn't seeing the consequences of wrecking deter someone from doing so?

    I'd think that seeing someone ride a gnarly section or do a big jump cleanly and "making it look easy" would do more to encourage folks to ride over their head more so than crash footage


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    Good point, except I'm not talking about what encourages folks to huck off cliffs. I'm talking about what encourages people to keep riding after a traumatic brain injury.

  11. #11
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    Is this serious, or just a sad attempt at trolling?

    We all ride at the level we choose. For some, that's a bike path. Others are more XC, on to all mountain, dirt jump, downhill, freeride etc. Ultimately it's up to the individual what risks they're going to take. For some, their risk level is "couch."

    My kid's at home today and out of baseball for a week with a mild concussion. Did he get it freeriding? On a gnarly downhill? Nope. Riding to school when the front tube decided to end its life. You know what every doctor and nurse said to him? "Thank you for wearing your helmet."

    I'm pretty sure that's the message they're trying to convey - "You're going to crash, wear a helmet, and we think ours are better than the others." Showing gnarly crashes and seeing that guy not only survive but able to laugh about it later is a pretty good way to deliver that idea, I think.

    Bill Simpson once set himself on fire to prove the protection his firesuits provided to racecar drivers. I'm pretty damn sure the message he was trying to convey was not "Go set yourself on fire." Rather, fire is an inherent risk of auto racing - more so then than now - protect yourself.

    People are going to engage in risky behavior whether you like it or not. Trying to convince people to use the proper safety gear while doing so is the exact opposite of the irresponsibility of which you accuse Kali.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8iking VIIking View Post
    ...are we just gonna blame everything on someone else? Everyone knows that crashing has consequences, I don't think this video is gonna change anything
    This pretty much sums it up. I came away from that video thinking "wow, that guy's an idiot" and you can bet your sweet ass I'll be teaching my little shredders that idiots are idiots, not role models.

    Kali is a brand that sells protective gear. Turns out that their gear protects good guys and idiots alike. The fact that he was able to walk away from that gnar speaks volumes about the quality of their product. It is no different from a car commercial where they show a crash test, or the aftermath of an accident (Subaru's "they lived" commercial comes to mind).

    I understand that this is the internet and riteous indignation and outrage are par for the course, but I see nothing "tough guy" about the golf comment. And on that topic, I had a roomate who's grandpa was killed by a golf ball, so it's not like golfing is any safer. Maybe Kali should come up with a line of golf helmets while they're at it...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Yes, exactly, that's exactly what I'm talking about. When people first starting talking about the toll that CTE was taking on NFL players, the immediate response was "take up golf" and similar tough-guy witticism. It took a while before anyone gave a sh!t about the pro athletes whose brains were getting ruined. Mountain biking still hasn't gotten there, and its videos like this one that are part of the reason.

    What makes you think that the majority of the populace cares about them now?
    I ncredibly
    M yopic
    B ackstabbing
    A ssholes

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    That was a good video, thanks for sharing. Now I feel even better that I run Kali gear now.

    To the OP - the guy is an extreme athlete. They crash often. Not sure what the issue is. Ever watch motocross or Moto GP? They have some crazy bad crashes. I am just glad that they are willing to perform all of these extreme sports to entertain us. I doubt anyone who watches a bad crash in any sport doesn't think to themselves "Hey I can't wait to do that!", no matter their age.

    For those who say extreme athlete's are idiots I am sorry you're so ignorant. Just because it's not something you would do doesn't mean they are an idiot. They are living their lives to the fullest using their rules. I have mad respect for that. Sorry some of you are so closed minded.
    Search for "People are awesome" sometime on YouTube. If some of those movies don't impress you then I feel sad for you.

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    Damn, pretty gnarly crashes especially that front flip and the cliff tumble. Hell, I think he needs sack protection as much as his dome. Ouch!

    And stop bagging on golf. You can get hurt; I have pulled a few muscles and didn't get out of the way while teaching my daughter and got hit in the back of my hand with a 7i. No golf for almost 3 months.

    Ya see, danger lurks around every corner, er berm, er green
    Just enjoy the ride...:cool:

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Accountability is exactly what my original post was about. Kali decided to market their brand by promoting brain-injury-causing behavior, and I think they should be accountable for that. Everyone's accountable for their choices.
    Hmm... by that thought process I would hate to see any promotional video that a manufacture produces to advertise their downhill bikes. You know, because pretty much every aspect of downhill is "brain-injury-causing behavior".

  17. #17
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    There's an extreme side to this sport. Kali is serious about the addressing the consequences that come with it. If the risk of brain injury is weighing on someone's mind that wants to try pushing the limits like this, it's good that Kali has something to address it better than the competition. You are just dramatizing this with one perspective. They're proud of what they've done. I don't think the shame should be on Kali, but on "do nothings" that vilify the work that people do to help out others. You may or may not be one of those do nothings, but it's clear that you're vilifying a side of the sport that you may not fully understand.

    I'm curious, what's your opinion on "People are awesome" videos?



    These people didn't just get up one day and told themselves they can do this by putting on some equipment designed for it, say a Kali helmet. They trained themselves up to it. It's not like people couldn't do this decades ago with specific training, but with good equipment that addresses some of the risks, more people are finding that it's easier to accept the challenge. To me, these are feats of what humans are capable of when they put their minds to it. I suppose if this was done centuries ago, these people would either be praised or trialed/burned at the stake, depending on whether some ancient hebrew or latin text prophesied them or not.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post

    I strongly disagree that that means they aren't a big deal. Rather the opposite.
    I didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    Accountability is exactly what my original post was about. Kali decided to market their brand by promoting brain-injury-causing behavior, and I think they should be accountable for that. Everyone's accountable for their choices.
    Kali decided to market their product by showing me how well their helmet could keep my brain safe if I decided to buy their helmet and fall on my head that hard. I commend them for that and I am thankful that someone is willing to risk it all so I may have a safer helmet, if I were to choose to buy their helmet.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    "If you care about your brain, you gotta get Kali."
    I can say I've tested my Kali at 38mph.
    It worked as advertised.
    Honestly, I don't care about how it is marketed as long as it lives up to it's advertised claims. In my case it did.

    Results are what you look for in a helmet design, hoping you never have to test their limits. Marketing is secondary.


  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by crconsulting View Post
    I can say I've tested my Kali at 38mph.
    It worked as advertised.
    Honestly, I don't care about how it is marketed as long as it lives up to it's advertised claims. In my case it did.

    Shit, is that blood?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Shit, is that blood?
    Yup....
    From abrasions on my face. Even the doctors couldn't believe the I survived with that kind of impact.

    Had a part fail on my bike.

    Doctors said I was lucky, I told them lucky is hitting the lottery

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    Quote Originally Posted by rm25x View Post
    For those who say extreme athlete's are idiots I am sorry you're so ignorant. Just because it's not something you would do doesn't mean they are an idiot. They are living their lives to the fullest using their rules. I have mad respect for that. Sorry some of you are so closed minded.
    Search for "People are awesome" sometime on YouTube. If some of those movies don't impress you then I feel sad for you.
    He's not an idiot for being an extreme athlete. He's an idiot because he knew he was messed up and subjected himself to further injury. That said, he's an idiot with a hell of a lot of talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crconsulting View Post
    Yup....
    From abrasions on my face. Even the doctors couldn't believe the I survived with that kind of impact.

    Had a part fail on my bike.

    Doctors said I was lucky, I told them lucky is hitting the lottery
    I don't know what to call it. But, I'm glad your ok. Did you start a thread about your crash?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Did you start a thread about your crash?
    No, don't have a lot of time to post or follow up, so I usually don't start too many threads.

    In the end, if you've been riding for a while, you're going to crash at some point. That was the worst one for me in over 36 years of riding

  26. #26
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    Much ado about nothing and this wreaks of another Amanda Batty-type complaint.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crconsulting View Post
    No, don't have a lot of time to post or follow up, so I usually don't start too many threads.

    In the end, if you've been riding for a while, you're going to crash at some point. That was the worst one for me in over 36 years of riding
    Yeah, I know what you mean. I had mine. I'd like to hear your story someday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Oh BTW, those crashes weren't nearly as bad as you made them out to be. Pretty much standard stuff for someone who rides at that level.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    I strongly disagree that that means they aren't a big deal. Rather the opposite.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    I didn't say that. Please don't put words in my mouth.
    It'll be an uphill fight to get the world to stop paraphrasing you accurately, but have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmonkEP View Post
    He's an idiot because he knew he was messed up and subjected himself to further injury.
    Judgments like that seem a lot easier for all us who've never been in his shoes. If the sponsors tells riders this is what they have to do to make it, riders will do it. The riders and the sponsors should both be accountable for that.

    But all that goes beyond the concern I'm raising. My point isn't whether freeriding has gotten too dangerous, it's whether putting out that video was a defensible decision by Kali.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    There's an extreme side to this sport. Kali is serious about the addressing the consequences that come with it. If the risk of brain injury is weighing on someone's mind that wants to try pushing the limits like this, it's good that Kali has something to address it better than the competition.
    I agree, and I said that pretty clearly in my original post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    You are just dramatizing this with one perspective.
    Duh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    You may or may not be one of those do nothings, but it's clear that you're vilifying a side of the sport that you may not fully understand.
    I'm not certain I understand you, and I don't mean that in a smartass way. The only side of the sport I'm intending to vilify is the side that uses 'slam to win' and 'I rode the next day' and the rest to sell products. I definitely do not "understand" that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Varaxis View Post
    I'm curious, what's your opinion on "People are awesome" videos?
    Not sure I've ever seen them. I know I've seen some youtube Fails videos that made me really cringe because I thought they were showing brain trauma.

    Here's a different way to think about the point I was trying to make here. If the injury that the rider suffered in one of those crashes was a Joe-Thiesmann broken leg, then no way in hell is that included in a marketing video. But the injuries shown in that video were just as real, and with much greater long-term impact. Joe Thiesmann isn't peeing in the oven like Mike Webster or shotgun-blasting himself in the torso like Dave Duerson or dying alone in his truck like Dave Mirra.

    And Kali knows that better than anyone.
    Last edited by OldManBike; 02-24-2016 at 03:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    It'll be an uphill fight to get the world to stop paraphrasing you accurately, but have it.
    I disagree. Most people around here have learned at least the bare minimum when it come to comprehension skills. Excuse me for a while, I'm watching wipeout videos! I'm teaching myself what not to do.

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    I guess he is ultimately fairly blasé about his normal occupational hazards.

    Personally, I keep wondering how many more years before someone dies at red bull rampage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Kali decided to market their product by showing me how well their helmet could keep my brain safe if I decided to buy their helmet and fall on my head that hard. I commend them for that and I am thankful that someone is willing to risk it all so I may have a safer helmet, if I were to choose to buy their helmet.
    Exactly this - for people that have chosen to send it off stuff that sane mortal people wouldn't consider, having the best gear should simply be requisite. Kali makes awesome stuff, and this way they can support extreme athletes while selling more stuff across the board.
    Having a tremendous amount of respect for the folks crazy enough to put the progression of stuff like freeride ahead of their own safety and well-being isn't mutually exclusive from people who want high quality safety products. In many regards having good safety equipment is an enabling tool for pushing the sport further (what previously may have been career ending injuries, some riders are able to put together a second run after some of those impacts -- can't take away from the ones where that isn't the case, but people do stuff on bikes now that wouldn't be worth considering sans better protective gear).

    Whatever your interpretation of the message is likely isn't that relevant to the overall strategy - their way of looking at it, and one that's shared by many is encapsulated in the same words you found:
    Tough, driven riders that push the envelope and do end up crashing take absurd amounts of punishment. Kali makes protective equipment that's up to that task. They want to sell more of it, and continue to support those athletes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tehllama View Post
    Kali makes awesome stuff, and this way they can support extreme athletes while selling more stuff across the board.* * *
    Whatever your interpretation of the message is likely isn't that relevant to the overall strategy - their way of looking at it, and one that's shared by many is encapsulated in the same words you found:
    Tough, driven riders that push the envelope and do end up crashing take absurd amounts of punishment. Kali makes protective equipment that's up to that task. They want to sell more of it, and continue to support those athletes.
    I don't think you got the point I'm trying to make. I'm not questioning Kali's right to sponsor freeriders and use that to promote their brand. I'm saying that the way they did it in this video was grotesque, in exactly the way that the NFL celebrating knock-out headshots was grotesque. The NFL finally stopped, and one of these days the mountain bike industry will, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    I don't think you got the point I'm trying to make. I'm not questioning Kali's right to sponsor freeriders and use that to promote their brand. I'm saying that the way they did it in this video was grotesque, in exactly the way that the NFL celebrating knock-out headshots was grotesque. The NFL finally stopped, and one of these days the mountain bike industry will, too.
    Except there's one big difference here Crackerjack. The NFL isn't in the helmet business. Kali is in the helmet business. And, if someone's melon is going to whack the ground, I wanna see it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    I don't think you got the point I'm trying to make. I'm not questioning Kali's right to sponsor freeriders and use that to promote their brand. I'm saying that the way they did it in this video was grotesque, in exactly the way that the NFL celebrating knock-out headshots was grotesque.
    Ok, but grotesque--like pretty, ugly, cool, delicious, etc.--is a matter of personal taste, and then the conclusion would simply be that you don't like the ad, which isn't really relevant to any debate. Shouldn't you stake your claim on what you think is the likely effect of the ad--that it could provably cause harm?

    I think the argument you've made in other posts is that the ad suggests it's ok to ride after head trauma, so presumably very young riders might be influenced to do the same. Is that the issue?
    Last edited by albeant; 02-24-2016 at 07:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    Except there's one big difference here Crackerjack. The NFL isn't in the helmet business. Kali is in the helmet business.
    I see. Because you still see lots football helmet companies promoting themselves with 'slam to win' and and 'as long as I can stand up afterwards it's okay,' right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    I see. Because you still see lots football helmet companies promoting themselves with 'slam to win' and and 'as long as I can stand up afterwards it's okay,' right?
    I don't know, I haven't been exposed to football helmet marketing. But, if football helmet companies showed me that their helmets do their job by showing some heads slamming together, I'd have no problem with it. There is such a thing, in this country, called freedom of speech, expression, whatever you want to call it. If you don't like it, just don't watch it.

  39. #39
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    More bodily damage is done every day by McDonald's burgers and fries. They should stop glorifying consumption of their product.

    This is getting silly.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Cycle Shawn View Post
    There is such a thing, in this country, called freedom of speech, expression, whatever you want to call it. If you don't like it, just don't watch it.
    Dear Shawn,

    When I realize that I have said something deeply stupid, I too often wish that "freedom of speech" means that other people aren't allowed to point out why I'm wrong.

    But that is not what freedom of speech means: that is the opposite of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means that when one speaker (like Kali) says something, another speaker (like me) is free to say "bad, bad Kali" and a third (like you) gets to say whatever it is that industry-humpers like you say. The marketplace of ideas, and all that.

    Truly yours,
    OldManBike

  41. #41
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    Dear Shawn,

    When I realize that I have said something deeply stupid, I too often wish that "freedom of speech" means that other people aren't allowed to point out why I'm wrong.

    But that is not what freedom of speech means: that is the opposite of freedom of speech. Freedom of speech means that when one speaker (like Kali) says something, another speaker (like me) is free to say "bad, bad Kali" and a third (like you) gets to say whatever it is that industry-humpers like you say. The marketplace of ideas, and all that.

    Truly yours,
    OldManBike[/QUOTE]



    [QUOTE=OldManBike;12494110]


    [QUOTE=OldManBike;12494110]

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldManBike View Post
    I don't think you got the point I'm trying to make. I'm not questioning Kali's right to sponsor freeriders and use that to promote their brand. I'm saying that the way they did it in this video was grotesque, in exactly the way that the NFL celebrating knock-out headshots was grotesque. The NFL finally stopped, and one of these days the mountain bike industry will, too.
    FWIW, I've stopped watching urban DH videos that don't include the words 'winning run' in them, just because those crashes are just painful to watch - it's one where the elevated consequence doesn't really add much to the spectacle for me - I agree with you more than you realize, but advertising will latch on to far stupider things and glorify that. I don't hold any less regard for companies that choose to advertise that way anyway; still gets through to their target audience, and most people with a more informed worldview start to view that as poorly informed sacrifices made more than grotesque theatre... but I realize I'm in the minority in that I watch NASCAR for the interplay of engineering development, strategy, and driver skill instead of the larger demographic that just want to see superspeedway pileups and petty disputes handled in quintessentially redneck fashion. I suspect it's a similar deal here.

  43. #43
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    Important take on the broader issue on Pinkbike today:

    The Bakery: Changing What We Think We Know About Concussions - Pinkbike

    It's a declaration of war on our sport's ethos of casual self-destruction, its toleration of downplaying, ignoring, and even cashing in on brain injury.

    "At the root of it all, we need to deprogram generations of thinking. We need to stop applauding racers who finish injured and we need to stop cheering “get back on the bike and finish!” to those racers who crash in front of us. When he was younger Tyler McCaul says he took the gamble and competed at an event even after he hit his head in practice. “I used to think that as long as I didn’t have a broken bone I was fine, so I would be stupid not to compete.” Today riding with a concussion is something he doesn’t take lightly. It slows your responses and causes you to be more likely to make another mistake that could lead to further injury. Post Concussion Syndrome causes your brain to lose its ability to auto-regulate and therefore a second injury could result in a more pronounced brain injury or death."

    And:

    "It's easy to worry about a lot of things other than your health when you're a professional athlete in a dangerous sport, especially the fear of losing sponsors due to being injured. Ultimately what it comes down to though is that if you're worried about a sponsor dropping you because you've decided to pull out of an event due to a concussion, then it's time to find a new sponsor anyways. The companies that value their athletes well being on top of anything else are the ones worth partnering with.
    - Tyler McCaul"

    Paging Kali Protectives ...

  44. #44
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    Here's some good ones!

  45. #45
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    Boy if that gets your panties all sassy never watch any of the Transition Bike videos.. especially the Klunker video and Rapture video.. They have alcohol AND bikes.. whhhhooooa...

    Jesus dude.. it's called marketing.. congrats you just got a ton of ppl to go watch the video/check the website... mark that as a win...

  46. #46
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    Wouldnt it be weird if a company that sold stuff to protect against crashes, didnt talk about crashes?

  47. #47
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    Let's just start giving trophies to all riders that show up to participate...and not actually have the race. This way nobody gets hurt and everyone can feel good about preventing injuries.

  48. #48
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    LA Zoo = Smorgasboard for P22

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkidd_39 View Post
    Boy if that gets your panties all sassy never watch any of the Transition Bike videos.. especially the Klunker video and Rapture video.. They have alcohol AND bikes.. whhhhooooa...

    Jesus dude.. it's called marketing.. congrats you just got a ton of ppl to go watch the video/check the website... mark that as a win...
    Can you post some of that up here?

  50. #50
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    I think everyone else BUT oldmanbike are the ones getting their panties in a bunch about his viewpoint. He isn't talking about not sponsoring that aspect of the sport, not taking those risks, people shouldnt ride like that, or people shouldnt mountain bike period.

    What he is pointing out is that Kali made a purposeful decision to show the equivalent of Monday night football's "He got Jacked Up." The NFL is trying to clean up their image, and that is the first segment they cut because it glorifies people getting concussions essentially.

    He isn't saying Kali cant market their products towards crashing, he is saying of the many directions a company could go with marketing their products towards crashing, they chose to use a highlight real of video and audio clips of a dude getting completely F'd up with the same person likely getting multiple concussions. That is the brand image you want to portray??

    FYI, just about every helmet survives those crashes...so you guys are "sold" on Kali because it stayed intact? Learn about the industry and the standards they have to adhere to.

    Do you know what would make a convincing commercial? show me this guy's twin who wore a Giro and took the same crashes who is now a full retard at age 60 while the kali wearer still knows his ABCs.

    Its really frustrating to read how people extrapolate and go off on irrelevant tangents that target the OP when those were never his viewpoints in the first place...just because he has an unorthodox and slightly PC bending form of delivery.

  51. #51
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    Crashing is a part of the sport. Protection and helmet companies 100% focus on only that aspect of the sport and nothing else.

    It would be one thing if kali paid a rider to specifically go out and crash, intentionally, and filmed it. Then the point would make sense. That'd be unethical and insane. They didnt though...

    Seriously though. We're not making fun of down syndrome kids, or cancer patients, or any serious illness that people unfortunately get. Were talking about an accident that occurs when people voluntarily participate in a dangerous sport, for no reason except their own personal enjoyment. We're doing this on purpose. The freeriders and pro riders signed right up knowing the risk.

    I personally think thats a bad idea so I dont ride insane stuff. If they choose to, its going to be filmed and used by a company... and I get that too. Its definitely a choice.

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