Re: Armor of Multi-Use Trails- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Re: Armor of Multi-Use Trails

    Edit: The Subject should read "Re: Armor on Multi-Use Trails." Yes, I'm sorta dumb.

    Rather than (further) hijack this thread http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=523978 on Apex (surprise!!), I thought I'd start a new one.

    Zorro said,
    Quote Originally Posted by zorro
    I actually saw one dude with full on knee/shin pads (really?).
    to which he got replies like
    Quote Originally Posted by schw8901
    whats wrong with knee/shin pads???
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    I thought it showed the intent to not get hurt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yetigirl
    I agree, Nickle. I wear them for climbing over technical stuff, since I can guarantee that I WILL fall...
    Here's my thoughts on this. If you don't ride anywhere without pads 'cause you think you'll get hurt, like davec113:
    Quote Originally Posted by davec113
    Yeah, I bruised my knee twice in one summer, which meant the whole summer was spent with a sore knee. Now, I always wear knee pads.
    then fine, wear them. If you need pads to ride tech stuff slowly when no one else is on that part of the trail (i.e. there's no one you're going to fall on), then by all means, wear them.

    Here's where I agree with Zorro's sentiment: If you only strap the pads on for going downhill (or especially only when breaking out the big bike): You're going too fast on a multi-use trail. If you think you don't have the control to stop from hitting a rock/tree/etc, how do you have the control to stop from hitting another trail user?

    Indecent Exposure says
    Quote Originally Posted by IE
    Yep. and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Its just another level of safety.

    You ride with a helmet right? (Really?) Why?
    Yes, I ride with a helmet. I ALWAYS ride with a helmet regardless of speed, regardless of whether I'm going up or down, regardless of the bike I'm riding. Like I said before, if you feel the need to ALWAYS wear pads, then fine. But I see plenty of people with pads on their pack and sometimes fullface helmets slung over their bars on the uphill, who then don the full-on stormtrooper look on the downhill. Also, I have to imagine people who shuttle also (sometimes?, maybe?) ride XC and that they don't ride XC in a full face and full armor.

    If you want to barrel down the trail and you think you need armor to protect you, then please do it at Keystone/Sol Vista, etc. If you can't keep yourself from getting hurt (i.e. you need extra protection), how can you keep other trail users from getting hurt?

    I'm open to (and welcome) rational discussion on this, especially if I've been unclear, but am not looking to get into a typical interweb argument. Flame away if you want, but I won't respond to that.

  2. #2
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    why don't you go ride bikes instead of worrying about this kind of thing so much? you choose what you want to wear and let others do the same.

  3. #3
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    There's too much analysis by correlation in this. How about we boil it down to just "don't be a jackass on the trail." Or even better, just "Be respectful and courteous to other people."

  4. #4
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    Oh boy.

    As I see it, it doesn't matter how fast you go on multi-use trails. What matters is how far you can see down the trail and how quickly you can stop/slow down.
    Go as fast as you want as long as you can always stop well short of the farthest point you can see down the trail and I don't see a problem.

    Along with the other obvious things: yield as required, don't hit people, don't be a jackass, etc.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moustache rider
    don't be a jackass, etc.
    Crap, I knew I missed something.
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  6. #6
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    I totally agree with you, Feldy. Your logic is so sound that we can extrapolate it into other facets of our lives. For instance:
    • Wearing your seatbelt implies that you are driving aggressively; a danger to other motorists. Wearing a seatbelt should only be done on a closed circuit track while racing.
    • Life vests show that you are not capable of sustaining float while in the water. By wearing a life vest while operating a boat or water craft, other users may believe that you are not an able user and that you intend on finding yourself in the water, struggling for your own life.
    • Eye and hand protection should not be worn while operating a chainsaw. If others around see you are wearing gloves or glasses, they may believe that the chainsaw you are using is dangerous and may lash out them; striking them and removing limbs or blinding them.
    • Hard hats should not be worn in construction areas because it implies that you are not confident in the skills of your coworkers or the reliability of your equipment. To prove your confidence, it is recommended not to wear a hard hat and to stand under scaffolding or next to a waste bin used for cinder blocks while demolishing a building.
    • Steel toed boots imply that you are prone to dropping things. In the best interests of having friends in an industrial workplace, it is best to wear sandals to show your peers that you are a coordinated, well balanced person who has great strength when lifting. You peers will like you for that.

    People don't wear armor or protective gear because they intend on using it, but because when they do have to use it and it's there, there is little to no impact on their lives. The argument that if you need protective gear, you are not in control is a weak one. Accidents happen, regardless of what you are wearing. There's not way to eliminate that fact. You can certainly reduce the likelihood of an accident happening, but then we've come full circle and that can be summed up by saying "don't be a jackass," not "don't wear armor."
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  7. #7
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    boobies

  8. #8
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    Judge riders by how they ride on trail not by what they are wearing!! if you dont get this then thats really too bad that you cant poke around outside your box more. these same underlying principles should have been taught to you at a very young age, try applying them in this instance.

    haha nickle, that seatbelt analogy was one of the first to come to mind for me too! kinda funny

  9. #9
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    Nickle, thanks for the level headed reply, if *slightly* sarcastic ;-D. (From what I can tell from your posts you're a reasonable sorta guy and you'd probably find me less of a moron in person.)

    I agree with not being a jackass (something at which I may have failed here).

    I should've added the additional point that I think looking all stormtroopery puts hikers on the defensive and doesn't help advocacy. I could be wrong here, and I could potentially agree with the argument that it's those who are put off by that look who should change their opinion, but I don't think it's the world we live in.

    I understand all of the analogies you made though I'd say they all relate to dying/getting dismembered -- more like just wearing a helmet biking, not protection against hurting your knee or elbow. Let's take the seatbelt analogy and I'll give 3 scenarios:

    1. Wear your normal seatbelt 'round town
    2. Wear a 5 point harness/helmet/neck brace/etc. on a race track
    3. Wear a 5 point harness/helmet/neck brace/etc 'round town.

    Who does #3? Anyone? Maybe streetracer types? Now here's the bike analogy:

    1. Wear a helmet at Apex
    2. Wear a Fullface and full armor at Keystone
    3. Wear a Fullface and full armor at Apex

    If you think you need full armor all the time, then that's fine, I can't really argue with that. If you want to have full armor on the race course 'cause you're going twice as fast, that's fine too, who're you going to bother? But why do you need full armor at Apex? (I mean "you" totally in general here not anyone specifically.) If it's 'cause you want to bomb it at full speed, and you're pushing your limits, and you think there's a fairly high chance of bailing, then, yes I think you're going too fast.

    So really that question isn't rhetorical. If you fall into all 3 scenarios above (either the car or bike one) please explain to me the motivation. Seriously, educate me.

    I'm not trying to be as much of an a$$ as it probably seems like I am. Why do I care what other people do? 'Cause I don't want Jeffco to think they need to institute a speed limit or ban bikes.

  10. #10
    Oh, So Interesting!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feldybikes

    If you can't keep yourself from getting hurt (i.e. you need extra protection), how can you keep other trail users from getting hurt?

    I cripple a few children and now I'm a bad guy...

  11. #11
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    In my experience...

    The correlation between wearing armor on multi-use trails and jackass and/or noob-hood is very, very high.

    There is also the perception issue - non-bikers see a friendly face and a "regular" bike helmet on someone and think nothing much of it, but they see someone in full armor and a fullface, and they're instantly freaked out. I've hiked with non-riding friends and discussed this with them, and it's a real phenomenon.

    You could argue that those folks don't matter, I suppose, but given the always-tenuous access situation and growing population along the front range, it's dumb to antagonize them.

    Hence I would not wear armor on a multi-use trail unless it was to protect an already-injured body part. But that's just me. I would certainly encourage people to wear whatever they need to feel safe, and to not be jackasses out there. You can certainly wear armor and be a responsible trail user. Most aren't, IMO. C'est la vie.

    -Walt

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=Feldybikes] I could be wrong here, and I could potentially agree with the argument that it's those who are put off by that look who should change their opinion, but I don't think it's the world we live in.QUOTE

    Couldnt agree with you more and thats the most frustrating part!

  13. #13
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    I wore a FF + armor and rode flats on an XC bike last night on XC trails and it felt GOOD!

  14. #14
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    I've shuttled Apex on a DH bike but wore XC gear. XC helmet, no armor or pads. We just wanted to ride the DH bikes. No one even looked twice at us. I think some hikers like to watch mt bikers go down a technical section. Its the full face that scares them off.

    I'm thinking about getting some light 661 EVO knee pads for technical XC rides. I don't plan to crash more, who does?
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  15. #15
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    Wearing a full face is different to knees and arms. Don't mix them in this discussion in my opinion.

    I wear knees everywhere, all the time because to me they are like a helmet - I feel naked without them.

    Upper Body armor and full face for me are only for trails where I am going fast in terrain that is unforgiving and gnarly and if I ever shuttled a multi-use trail that required body armor it would be outside of any sort of peak times. For Apex I would stick to a half lid simply because of the public perception of it.

    But to agree - punish me if I ride like a jackass not if I look "different".

  16. #16
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    I can see where you are making the connection between rider appearance and the interpretation of other users, but who’s to blame there? I’m sure cycling went through the same growing pains when they first started wearing helmets. I’m sure other folks were like “dang, those cyclists are dangerous, they’re wearing helmets.” (I don’t know because I was negative years old when the first helmets were introduced to cycling.) But are they really dangerous? Isn’t wearing a helmet actually safer than not? They sure don’t seem out of place or impacting the opinions of other trail users now, do they?

    The biggest fault with your argument is that you are trying to make a connection between what someone is wearing and how they are riding. I’m also getting the impression that your are trying to assign fault in user conflicts to those who wear armor. If armor were banned on trails, it would have little to no impact on how riders. The jackasses would still be jackasses and the responsible riders would still be rolling their eyes at those that aren’t. Armor has no impact on that relationship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feldybikes
    1. Wear your normal seatbelt 'round town
    2. Wear a 5 point harness/helmet/neck brace/etc. on a race track
    3. Wear a 5 point harness/helmet/neck brace/etc 'round town.
    Who does #3? Anyone? Maybe streetracer types?
    Nice. You don’t know much about that hobby, do you?

    If it was convenient and had no impact on a driver’s ability or comfort, I’m sure everyone would willingly wear a 5-point harness, helmet, and neck brace in their car. That is, if they had any interest in self preservation and were aware of how frequent traffic accidents are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feldybikes
    'Cause I don't want Jeffco to think they need to institute a speed limit or ban bikes.
    I wasn’t aware that they were considering that option. If they were, do you honestly believe that armor is going to have an effect on their decision? I would think a more productive approach would be to support groups like COMBA and IMBA that work for our rights and/or become a better trail ambassador to other users and/or work to educate users who are not aware the impact that their actions have (not their attire).
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  17. #17
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    I wear full on hockey goalie gear and a cup and those hikers don't know what to think of me when I come barreling down. I get even weirder looks when I'm going up.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    Wearing a full face is different to knees and arms. Don't mix them in this discussion in my opinion.

    I wear knees everywhere, all the time because to me they are like a helmet - I feel naked without them.
    Yeah, but what if you feel naked without a full face and arm pads? I broke my front teeth on my BMX bike as a kid, and it took me a long time to get my confidence up on the MTB because of that. I started wearing a Giro Switchblade back in '97, and I've been wearing a full face ever since.

    Regarding hiker perception mentioned above: I think it's more of an attitude thing. A hiker is more likely to have a negative perception of a lycra wearing asshat who doesn't acknowledge them than an armor clad rider who offers a friendly greeting and yeilds properly. The only time I ever hear hikers talking about my armor, it is in reference to it being a GOOD idea. That being said, our hikers down here seem a lot more sane than the trail conflict loonies up north...

  19. #19
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    I'd rather come across an armor clad MTBer than a Lycra clad one any day

    Yes, I went there!

  20. #20
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    What about a rider with full face and armor on a $6,000 Orbea road bike? I think you could draw the conclusion that they were going to start trouble, not that I have seen anyone do it
    The more I drink, the smarter you get.

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    Recently I started wearing knee and shin pads.

    I've been riding since 92 and in that time I've taken numerous hits to the knees and shins. My shins look like lumpy mashed potatoes and my knees, well lets not talk about them
    My point here is that I didn't start wearing them because I started shuttling, going faster downhill, riding more recklessly or decided that I wanted to scare the other trail users. I started wearing them because I don't think I have too many hard hits left in those body parts and I want to keep riding as long as I can (I'm 41 now). Already, they have saved me from one pretty hard fall on my right knee on the "Ramp" at LOTB going UP! In fact, most of my falls seem to occur when I'm trying technical sections without much room for error on flat or uphill terrain at low speed, not because I lose control going too fast downhill.
    The day a doctor tells me that I have to give up MTBing if I want to be able to walk when I'm old is the day a piece of me dies. I will do what it takes to avoid or delay that as long as possible and I don't care what hikers or other bikers think

  22. #22
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    i wear knee pads and a dj lid for 30 mile xc rides. i rather be safe then 20 stitches in my legs.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowskilz
    i wear knee pads and a dj lid for 30 mile xc rides. i rather be safe then 20 stitches in my legs.
    All right, this was obviously a set up on your part but...when have you ever rode XC for 30 miles? Unless you combine all your rides from the entire summer
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  24. #24
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    +1 to not being a jackass on trail, it's the nice thing to do, plus we want more trail access, not less

    +1 to wearing whatever safety gear feels most comfortable (so long as it ain't a weapon)

    +1 that fully kitted DH'rs are discriminated against soley because of their gear - get over it

    +1 to not being a jackass on the trail, no matter what your preferred riding style

    new thought: it ain't just noobs that act poorly, some, possibly most, are experienced MTBR's.

  25. #25
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    Why would anyone care about the psychological effects wearing a full-face helmet has on other trail users?

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    (so long as it ain't a weapon)
    ohhhh SHxT!
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by day-o
    Yes, I went there!
    Sounds like you have... ummm... "issues."

    Well done bringing them into this discussion.

    NTTAWWT.


  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feldybikes
    <snip>
    Yes, I ride with a helmet. I ALWAYS ride with a helmet regardless of speed, regardless of whether I'm going up or down,
    Next time you're on a really hot, slow, steep, sustained uphill try taking your helmet off.

    It's liberating.


  29. #29
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    If you worried as much about what you're wearing and how you're riding as you do everybody else you'd probably be able to ride a hell of a lot better!!!! Go put on your lycra, raise your seatpost and spin your gears you XC riding, desk jockey.
    Somebody better get me a stamp...I'm gonna send it

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by zzsean
    I wear knees everywhere, all the time because to me they are like a helmet - I feel naked without them.
    Quote Originally Posted by snowskilz
    i wear knee pads and a dj lid for 30 mile xc rides. i rather be safe then 20 stitches in my legs.
    uh...
    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    If you don't ride anywhere without pads 'cause you think you'll get hurt...then fine, wear them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    Nice. You don’t know much about that hobby, do you?
    No way, dude, I totally saw all of the Faster and more Furiouserer movie. Really, I don't know crap about that. Apologies for any wrong assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by moosehead
    +1 to not being a jackass on the trail, no matter what your preferred riding style
    Make it +2
    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    A hiker is more likely to have a negative perception of a lycra wearing asshat who doesn't acknowledge them than an armor clad rider who offers a friendly greeting and yeilds properly.
    100% agree. (BTW kristian, I think I rode with you a couple of times in like 1998 or something when I was at CC.) People shouldn't give a crap what you're wearing, but I think that nice lycra guy gets a better reaction than nice armored guy. But really, that's not my main point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    The biggest fault with your argument is that you are trying to make a connection between what someone is wearing and how they are riding.
    I'll bring this up 1 more time (with modification), 'cause it's really getting to my point (besides the making other users uncomfortable, which might be separate):

    1. Ride XC/trail/whatever bike, wear a helmet at Apex
    2. Ride "big" bike, wear a fullface and full armor at Keystone
    3. Ride "big bike"", wear a fullface and full armor at Apex

    Perhaps I made the wrong assumption that people regularly do this from only a small number (1 or 2) conversations. Am I wrong, does no one do this sort of thing? If you do this, why wear more gear with the longer travel bike? My assumption is that some people bust out the armor just for the DH bike 'cause they're going a lot faster on that bike.

    Finally:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    Quote Originally Posted by Feldybikes
    'Cause I don't want Jeffco to think they need to institute a speed limit or ban bikes.
    I wasn’t aware that they were considering that option.
    Jeffco's public input re:Apex http://jeffco.us/openspace/openspace_T56_R157.htm asks for options including Alternate Use Days and Single Use Trails. Single use being not bikes would be banning. Introducing speed limits is not something they've brought up but give that various places in CA do it, and that they have a specific speed limit for passing (regardless of trail size) and that the open space rules say
    Quote Originally Posted by JCOS
    http://www.co.jefferson.co.us/jeffco...oads/rules.pdf]
    SPEEDING
    5.84.19 It shall be unlawful for any person to operate any
    vehicle or bicycle and/or be transported by any other
    conveyance, i.e., roller skates, roller blades, skateboard,
    scooter, or horse, in excess of the posted speed limit on
    Open Space lands. Fine: $30.00
    (Crown Hill Park is the only place I know of with a posted speed limit in JCOS), I think it's a real possibility
    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    If they were, do you honestly believe that armor is going to have an effect on their decision?
    I've been to OSAC meetings where people talk about "Extreme Mountain Bikers" and how they don't want them around. I think armor increases the Mtn. Dew raddittude perceptipon that these people (try to) use as an argument against us. And I think more examples of user conflict could affect decisions on restricting mountain biking. If there's no one who goes any faster because of armor or there's no one wearing armor that blows by hikers then I armor would have nothing to do with it and I'm sorry for bringing all of this up. I just suspect that's not the case.

  31. #31
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    You make a lot of assumptions, but you could also add some assumptions. What if the riders you see are beginner DH riders that aren't ready to ride Keystone, so they are practicing on Apex? What if they're young kids who's mother absolutely made them armor up? What if....? There's just a lot unknowns involved.

    I noticed your glissade avatar, so I assume you're into mountaineering. My buddies and I were hiking back from getting snowed off the summit of Mt Meeker via Dreamweaver Couloir last weekend with all of our gear (packs, double boots, gaiters, axes, snowpants, helmets, etc) when we came across another hiker wearing a visor, shorts, and a t-shirt while carrying an Arrowhead plastic water bottle. She said something in a thick midwestern accent to the affect of, "Gee, y'all sure are over-dressed for this here hike."

    Surely you've come across this scenario before.
    Last edited by day-o; 06-04-2009 at 07:34 PM.

  32. #32
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    That guy is prob wearing armor because he hasn't told his wife about the 6k Orbea

    Quote Originally Posted by ban'd4life
    What about a rider with full face and armor on a $6,000 Orbea road bike? I think you could draw the conclusion that they were going to start trouble, not that I have seen anyone do it

  33. #33
    hehe ...you said "member"
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorro
    I wear full on hockey goalie gear and a cup and those hikers don't know what to think of me when I come barreling down. I get even weirder looks when I'm going up.
    Actually, it's the skates that throws people.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feldybikes
    I'll bring this up 1 more time (with modification), 'cause it's really getting to my point (besides the making other users uncomfortable, which might be separate):

    1. Ride XC/trail/whatever bike, wear a helmet at Apex
    2. Ride "big" bike, wear a fullface and full armor at Keystone
    3. Ride "big bike"", wear a fullface and full armor at Apex
    I do all three of the above for several different reasons (except I wouldn't necessarily call my 6" travel bike a "DH" bike - it pedals uphill VERY well), but I always try to subscribe to the philosophy of "don't be a jackass on the trail." It might be cold outside, so wearing my elbow/forearm guards helps keep me warm (they're just arm skins with pads sewn on them) on the way up. I might wear my full-face if its cold too (it's pretty warm as well). I don't ever wear my knees/shins on the way up. If I bring them, they're stashed in my pack. I don't shuttle. I still like the "up" very much.

    My 6" travel bike allows me to go faster, while staying in control, on the downhill. So yeah, I sometimes (not always) carry my legs/shins on the up and put them on for the way down. I'm pretty confident that there's a direct correlation between speed, probability of an "accident", and the severity of that accident, in that, as speed increases, so do the other two. So, its somewhat about acceptable levels of risk. I can accept the level of risk posed to me when I go downhill on my 3" travel XC bike (the bike is a limiting/controlling factor), but I am not comfortable accepting the level of risk posed by the extra speed I can get with my 6" travel bike without wearing a little extra protection. (I'm getting older and it takes too long to heal now...)

    That doesn't mean that it'll take me any longer to stop on the trail, though. I bet I can actually stop faster on my 6" bike with that big 203mm disc up front than the v-brakes on my XC bike. So, its not really about going "too fast." What's too fast? A newbie on a hardtail can be going too fast for his skill level and bike, while at the same time, that newbie could be going only a fraction of the speed an experienced rider might be going on a longer travel bike. Who is more of a hazard to himself and to other trail users?

    Living by the "don't be a jackass" philosophy, I don't "bomb" down Apex in armor and a fullface after work during the week, or on crowded weekends, or bomb around blind corners - EVER. That's just stupid to do on a multi-use trail and needs to stay at Keystone/Sol Vista/Winter Park or on the closed race course. No argument there.

    It all comes back to not being a jackass on the trail, knowing your limits, the limits of your equipment, and having common sense and common courtesy. Will there be some interactions - of course, always. But, can't you just talk to the person, apologize if you're in the wrong, get over it, and move on? Why does it always have to be a "conflict"? No one can make a trail 100% safe. If they do, that's going to be one boring a$$ trail.


  35. #35
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    ...where did that dead horse smilie run off too...?

  36. #36
    Shattering Glass
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    I prefer spikes coming out of full upper body all black chest protector and some ultimate warrior string around my puny biceps for $hits and giggles! And a mohican FF helmet with eyes on the back! lol Of course all in latex skin wrap.... Pink

  37. #37
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    So are you also prejudiced about the guy on the crotch rocket/ donorcycle wearing leathers and a full face, but get warm fuzzies from the helmetless guy and his gf wearing shorts and flip flops on a Harley? Hey, you can see their smiling faces (and toes), how could you possibly run them over?

    There is appropriate gear for every activity. Your problem is you don't have the power to make those determinations, but want it.

    As far as our gear being detrimental to our coexistance with other trail users - if what we wear influences anything, we're too far down the road to ruin already to be able to save it.
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  38. #38
    Living the High Life
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    Some people get frostbite easily, show we belittle them?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  39. #39
    hehe ...you said "member"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    Some people get frostbite easily, show we belittle them?

    Randy looked like a tick ... ready to pop.

    You know you've got a great MTBR thread going when a "Christmas Story" reference shows up!
    Thanks .... that was a great start to my morning!!!
    “Me fail english? Thats unpossible.” - Matt Groening

  40. #40
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    Fashion police go home....there are no laws telling anyone what to wear in public in this country. Just don't ride on the trails like you drive on the roads...respect pedestrians/hikers and the rules of the trails, period. When you see others violating those rules on the trails, give them a real hard time about it.....Peace

  41. #41
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by danaco
    Fashion police go home....there are no laws telling anyone what to wear in public in this country.
    There sure are.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TooManyToyz
    boobies
    I like this tangent.... go with it

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    There sure are.
    I'm getting a manpris vibe. where are the pics?

  44. #44
    not actually bad :)
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    Last night I broke out the spandex for a quick trip up Apex.
    My wife laughed at me, so I switched to the baggies.
    May never wear the spandex again.

    Edit - oh yeah - no one seemed grumpy, no mad rangers, no trail conflict.
    SWEET!
    Old Codger

  45. #45
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    enduroslrider,

    Thanks for answering my question. I think you did a good job articulating what I pretty much much completely failed to. To paraphrase (please correct me if I'm wrong), you have one level of risk with your XC bike (I accept that there's some normal regular level of risk associated with more or less all activities -- that's why I wear a helmet while riding), and there's an elevated level of risk with your Nomad (bike model is a joke here) 'cause you ride faster on it. You mitigate this increased level of risk by wearing armor.

    I make the assumption that *increased* level of risk for the rider presents an increased level of risk for (likelihood of running into) other trail users. EnduroSL disagrees with me. So, I suppose my initial post (which probably shouldn't've ever existed in the first place) should say something more to the effect of:

    If you sometimes wear armor to mitigate an increased level of risk you put yourself in, please consider the possible effect of that increased level of risk to other trail users and their perception of your activities.

    Apologies for how I started this thread, it was unnecessarily and unintentionally inflammatory. Peace. I'll end with adding to "don't be a jackass" motto:

    Be excellent to each other.
    Party on, dudes!

  46. #46
    MFin' Princess
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liquidmantis
    How about we boil it down to just "don't be a jackass on the trail"


    Absolutely love it. This topic, and phrase, has some serious legs. In fact may require a whole nuther thread ...

    Don't Be A Jackass on the Trail
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    #23. If you find yourself defeated on an uphill section of trail, and are already walking your bike, move out the damn way and forfeit your ROW to the DH rider ... even though you don't "have to."

    Man, those kids can drive me up a wall ....

  47. #47
    The Notorious S.L.O
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkaredShtles
    Next time you're on a really hot, slow, steep, sustained uphill try taking your helmet off.

    It's liberating.

    Dude, you have never seen me ride, I have been known to topple over climbing at less than 3 mph
    BT
    11 Trek Hifi Delux 23in
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  48. #48
    I can't ride 45!
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    Bells, bells, bells!

    Hikers love bells! I threw a bell on my bike last summer and I was overwhelmed by the reaction from hikers -- I would say at least 50% of the people I pass <strong>thank me</strong>! No I am not kidding.

    The big problem I had passing prior to the bell was getting people to hear me far enough back that they weren't surprised when they finally did, "hello, Hello, HELLO". The high clear note of the bell easily gets people's attention from way far back, and it pleasantly reminds them of children and training wheels and lollypops(just taking a stab and the psychology).

    The whole issue of user conflict boils down to how we can have our fun on the trail while still being polite, and I say BELLS! It sounds silly, but I challenge you to try it. A simple part of the solution.

  49. #49
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by btadlock


    Dude, you have never seen me ride, I have been known to topple over climbing at less than 3 mph
    I generally wear my helmet on unknown climbs, etc. But if I'm on a forest service road or if I'm climbing something like West Ridge by Keystone I'll generally (if I remember ) hang the helmet off the bars.

    YOU, however, should probably wear your helmet at all times.

  50. #50
    bacon! bacon! bacon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonb
    Hikers love bells! I threw a bell on my bike last summer and I was overwhelmed by the reaction from hikers -- I would say at least 50% of the people I pass <strong>thank me</strong>! No I am not kidding.

    The big problem I had passing prior to the bell was getting people to hear me far enough back that they weren't surprised when they finally did, "hello, Hello, HELLO". The high clear note of the bell easily gets people's attention from way far back, and it pleasantly reminds them of children and training wheels and lollypops(just taking a stab and the psychology).

    The whole issue of user conflict boils down to how we can have our fun on the trail while still being polite, and I say BELLS! It sounds silly, but I challenge you to try it. A simple part of the solution.
    My preference:


  51. #51
    OMG!
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    No good

    Quote Originally Posted by Feldybikes
    Yes, I'm sorta dumb.
    apparently so.

    anway, to add to the bull **** that is the mtbr forums, i will add my point of view. do take it with a grain of salt.

    if im wearing a helmet, i'm wearing my knee/shin guards. it can make the difference of getting up after a fall to continue my ride and be able to ride the next day versus having to take time off to let needless injuries heal. if you are too concerned about your image to understand that, then you can please **** off.

  52. #52
    Woohooo! Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonb
    Hikers love bells! I threw a bell on my bike last summer and I was overwhelmed by the reaction from hikers -- I would say at least 50% of the people I pass thank me! No I am not kidding.
    I'll throw out a caveat to that though--it has to be a bell that SOUNDS like a BIKE bell. I used to use one of those Miri-bells, and it startled people because they didn't realize what the TING sound was. A real bell that sounds like it came off a 1950's cruiser bike would have worked a lot better because it's a sound people recognize.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by adjunkie
    apparently so.

    anway, to add to the bull **** that is the mtbr forums, i will add my point of view. do take it with a grain of salt.

    if im wearing a helmet, i'm wearing my knee/shin guards. it can make the difference of getting up after a fall to continue my ride and be able to ride the next day versus having to take time off to let needless injuries heal. if you are too concerned about your image to understand that, then you can please **** off.

    uh oh, it's the mtbr forum police


  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by adjunkie
    ...if im wearing a helmet, i'm wearing my knee/shin guards. it can make the difference of getting up after a fall to continue my ride and be able to ride the next day versus having to take time off to let needless injuries heal. if you are too concerned about your image to understand that, then you can please **** off.
    Agree 100%

    +1

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kristian
    I'll throw out a caveat to that though--it has to be a bell that SOUNDS like a BIKE bell. I used to use one of those Miri-bells, and it startled people because they didn't realize what the TING sound was. A real bell that sounds like it came off a 1950's cruiser bike would have worked a lot better because it's a sound people recognize.

    I got my wife a funny horn for her cruiser - which has proven to be nearly useless when attempting to negotiate the sidewalk along Clear Creek. I joked that it sounded like geese, but I then heard some geese... and it really does. Maybe I'll move the horn to my daughter's Strider and get my wife a bell...
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  56. #56
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    I don't throw a leg over the motorcycle without the sidi boots, armored pants, amorred jacket, gloves that go over the wrist, and my full face helmet. Sometimes in the mountain roads I put on the full leather suit and back protector.

    It does feel funny coming down a canyon road on my road bike doing 40+ wearing spandex, half gloves, and a dinky helmet

    Wear what ever you want to out there!

    I am going to guess armor and mountain biking is going to be like helmets at the ski resorts. When I was wearing a helmet in '98 I was a freak. But it saved my head! Here we are 11 years later and it seems like 3/4 of the skiers/riders have helmets.

    It will catch on.

  57. #57
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    I liken this discussion to when NO ONE but down hill GS ski racers wore helmets on the slopes 15 to 20 years ago people. Now ya go to the slopes and 70 % of the peeps are wearing helmets. Does that mean they are racing DH out of control NO!!! I've seen more spandx, kit wearing goons out of control skidding to stop for me climbing cause I won't yeild to them, than ANY ARMOR wearing DH fool than I care to talk about.One local XC team in particular has some major ofenders . I'll bet this same type of discussion went on in the skiing industry back then and look how that turned out. WEAR WHATEVER MAKES YOU COMFORTABLE and allows you to ride another day people!!!! Now go ride your GOD D#MM bikes and quit your *****en
    My bike takes me places school never could!

  58. #58
    friend of Apex
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickle
    ... your are ...
    the drugs made me realize it's not about the drugs

  59. #59
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    At first when I saw this thread I thought it would be about building armor into multi use trails, like the rock ramps at apex. Oh well, next time.
    I say wear what you are comfortable with and just be aware that in any case a rider with more gear on then a helmet is going to be more intimidating to other trail users.
    Be aware that on Jeffco multi use trails you must be extra sensitive to this perceived
    image, as we are already looking at losing some of our rights to ride when and how we
    choose. Hence the polls that Jeffco has out.
    Anyone reading this thread is already aware of the issues at hand and what we stand
    to lose.

    So Don't be an extra jackass! Regardless of what you wear.

    OT: Does any one know what are the speed limits that have been applied elsewhere?
    Are you required then to have a speedometer to ride those trails also?

    Thanks
    Devoted member of The Church of Two Rolling Masses.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowskilz
    i wear knee pads and a dj lid for 30 mile xc rides. i rather be safe then 20 stitches in my legs.
    And you yield to uphill traffic!

  61. #61
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    Does anyone know where I can get REAL Star Wars Storm Trooper gear? I have the urge to make a really funny movie.

  62. #62
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    Sweet Indecent, pick up two Storm Trooper kits and I'll join in the fun!!!
    My bike takes me places school never could!

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Does anyone know where I can get REAL Star Wars Storm Trooper gear? I have the urge to make a really funny movie.
    Running down Apex/EF in white Stormtrooper garb and rocking cockhorses? I'm in too

  64. #64
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    http://www.discountstarwarscostumes....s-costume.html

    Okay, someone has to go as chewbacca and Vader.

  65. #65
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    TVC15, could we get you to wear this?

    http://www.discountstarwarscostumes....e-costume.html

  66. #66
    Thread Terrorist
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    (Thread, officially hijacked, by non-jackasses)

  67. #67
    Stiff yet compliant
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    TVC15, could we get you to wear this?

    http://www.discountstarwarscostumes....e-costume.html
    DOOOOOOOOD!
    http://www.discountstarwarscostumes....e-costume.html

  68. #68
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    I dunno, this one kinda looks like Chewy hooked up with an ewok...
    http://www.discountstarwarscostumes....e-costume.html

    Anyone got $800 I can borrow for an Authentic Supreme Edition?
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  69. #69
    Your retarded
    Reputation: Nickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moustache rider
    Dibs!
    A trail that’s too difficult wouldn’t exist because it’d never be used. But, trails can exist that’re too difficult for you.

  70. #70
    Got single track/speed?
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    I'm jumping in late on this one.

    I say use the right tool for the job. There's always an exception to the rule, but in general these kind of things are self selecting. You hardly ever see anybody in full pads and a downhill rig climbing anything serious. You might see a light freeride bike and the rider with a full face helmet with knee pads climbing something once in a while. But I can't say that I've ever seen anybody out at Indian Creek or Buffalo Creek on anything more than an All Mountain rig, sans pads.

    If you really feel the need to use your freeride rig and wear a full face helmet with pads on a 20 mile ride, you're going to be a little uncomfortable.

    -Chuck

  71. #71
    mtbr member
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckjoga
    I'm jumping in late on this one.
    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckjoga
    I say use the right tool for the job.
    Wow. Great insight. But we are beyond the general here. We need specific advice now: Can we go cheap or do we need to order the authentic versions?
    "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit." - And I agree.

  72. #72
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    so just by chance, do any of the mountain bikers ever complain to Jeffco about the hikers like they do about us? I find it hard to believe that there aren't any jack ass hikers out on the trails.

  73. #73
    Living the High Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    (Thread, officially hijacked, by non-jackasses)
    I must have missed something...
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  74. #74
    Living the High Life
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckjoga
    I'm jumping in late on this one.

    If you really feel the need to use your freeride rig and wear a full face helmet with pads on a 20 mile ride, you're going to be a little uncomfortable.

    -Chuck
    Hey I.E. said this is officially hijacked. So if you don't have a Star Wars comment get the EF out!
    You have just been mentally Rick Roll'd. Yup you're thinking about it right now aren't you? Don't fight it.

  75. #75
    Thread Terrorist
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ithnu
    Hey I.E. said this is officially hijacked. So if you don't have a Star Wars comment get the EF out!
    Chuckjoga, you'll need a Yoda costume. Either you're small, and will fit the part, or you'll be a tall yoda.

    DBabuser, you goin' as chewy?

    IE

  76. #76
    Thread Terrorist
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    Starting new thread. We need Trucker to weigh in here.

  77. #77
    Got single track/speed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndecentExposure
    Chuckjoga, you'll need a Yoda costume. Either you're small, and will fit the part, or you'll be a tall yoda.

    DBabuser, you goin' as chewy?

    IE

    I may have to sew a couple together.

    -Chuck

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