Not so well fitting mips helmet or good fitting non mips?- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Not so well fitting mips helmet or good fitting non mips?

    So, I just learned about mips.
    Happened to smash my helmet on the weekend. So I need a new helmet asap.

    Went to the local bike shops and tried all the mips helmets on. None of them fit my head properly.

    By my trustee isis helmet fits supremely.

    Should I go less comfortable mips or comfortable non mips?

    I'm leaning towards comfortable non mips.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
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    I understand the principle behind MIPS but don't put much stock into its actual effectiveness as the helmet can already skid on the ground and slide and rotate against your head. If I was choosing between two identical helmets, one with and one without, I'd probably choose the one without.
    Do the math.

  3. #3
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    I think MIPS is a good idea but I'd choose the helmet that fits best whether it had it or not.
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  4. #4
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    You should probably try some more helmets on. Hit up another bike shop! Took me awhile before I could find a Mips that fit me well (large egg shaped head).

  5. #5
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    I have no other bike shops. I tried them all. To be honest it was a shithouse selection. I'd have to drive 350km to try more helmet's.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    I have no other bike shops. I tried them all. To be honest it was a shithouse selection. I'd have to drive 350km to try more helmet's.
    Ah, bummer. Iíd just get what fits.


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  7. #7
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    MIPS won't do any good if it falls off your head. Get what fits.

  8. #8
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    I think MIPS is very overrated. All it does its allow the helmet to rotate relative to your head if it scrapes on the ground so firstly, it's only any help in one specific type of crash. Secondly, it doesn't let the helmet rotate much as your head is not round but the part that really gets me is that standard helmets can rotate on your head anyway!

    I wouldn't avoid a helmet with MIPS but I wouldn't pay more for one either. I went for a Smith helmet, without the optional MIPS.

  9. #9
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    Another +1 to getting the helmet that fits properly.
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  10. #10
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    Fit 1st, then see if it's available in MIPS.
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  11. #11
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    Personally I'd side with the science behind MIPS rather than the opinion of someone on the internet. There is some technical sense behind MIPS in that it absorbs rotational forces, this is completely different to your helmet not fitting properly and slipping then stopping.. where is the energy going.. yep into your head as the slip doesn't absorb anything.. the MIPS is supposedly absorbing energy hence the sense part even if it slips slightly first when it contacts and grips the MIPS then absorbs energy. So yes on the face of it there is a clear technical reason for MIPS.

    Ultimately you buy the best fitting helmet you can afford, science suggests a correctly fitting MIPS is your current best option. How much of an effect i'm not sure as I've not seen the numbers but if it's absorbing energy its having an effect.

    Any poorly fitting helmet is bad, the main advice is make sure it fits properly first, if you can afford a MIPS version then why not.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketMagnet View Post
    Personally I'd side with the science behind MIPS rather than the opinion of someone on the internet...
    Ok, that's fair enough, but is it that simple?

    Who is this science you're talking about?

    These guys sink a fortune and/or years of their lives into this idea, making prototypes, testing, patenting, it's a big deal to them. Does that mean they made a bad product? No, but it does mean they are very far from impartial. Everyone, from the designers to the helmet manufacturers, stands to profit from the technology.

    What does it do? The MIPS system allows the helmet to rotate on your head about ten to fifteen millimeters. It doesn't sound like much but I'm sure that in a very specific kind of crash scenario that might be significant. I'm not questioning the possible value of minimizing rotational forces on your head.

    Here is what I am questioning. Put your standard, non-MPIS helmet on and buckle it up. Take a hold of it and wiggle it around. Can you rotate it left and right, back and front as much as ten to fifteen millimeters? I can. The MIPS designers claim that in a crash a standard helmet will dig into your head and not rotate on it. It will grip your head well enough to force your head to rotate. What do you think? I don't know about you but my head and helmet are usually pretty soaked in sweat when I'm riding. Do you think those soaking foam pads are going to have enough grip on my greasy head to not slip on it?

    I think the MIPS system may have an advantage but if it does I reckon it has to be marginal. Put it another way, I think that the performance difference between different designs of helmet are probably much bigger than the difference between MIPS and no MIPS.

    I wouldn't avoid an MIPS helmet and if money was no object there is certainly no logic in not buying one. I can't see that the system has any downsides, except possibly altering the fit. I don't have limitless funds though so I chose a system that at least makes more sense to me, which is why I bought a non-MIPS Smith helmet.

  13. #13
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    In the end i went for high end non mips. The same helmet that i stuffed. Why? the local mips helmets didnt fit me. Maybe there'l be a mips fitting helmet for my next purchase.

  14. #14
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    Totally agree MIPS is for a specific type of crash and is probably a marginal effect. I do not agree that a helmet slipping on your head is the same as MIPS as the latter is a controlled absorbed rotation, that's the point its supposedly a "slowed" deceleration of a rotation. So to me on both helmets.. its Slip as you say 10-15 mm then the MIPS does a another 10-15mm controlled deceleration?

    I'm a little sceptical as someone is profiting, they always are, but I'll trust someone like POC are genuinely trying to improve safety. What is concerning is I've never seen any papers showing the actual numbers which must have been done measuring the forces.

    Ultimately when I started riding bikes nobody wore helmets now most people do and things iterate, yes we get unnecessary iteration from companies (e.g Apple, Samsung, Microsoft etc) purely for profit reasons but I'm not convinced MIPS falls into purely mumbo jumbo marketing W$%^.

    If you can't afford MIPS then it's a moot point, little point worrying about something you can't have but if you can .. why not? only thing I can think of is if for some reason MIPS can result in worse injuries?

    As for the OP he's made the right choice IMO, Fit is your first priority but I suspect were all guilty of putting what it looks like too high on the list when really we shouldn't.

    Also apologies Pig.. when I re-read how I worded it in your "cut" I was a bit rude.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RocketMagnet View Post
    So to me on both helmets.. its Slip as you say 10-15 mm then the MIPS does a another 10-15mm controlled deceleration?
    I don't think the MIPS 'adds' ten milometers. The distance the helmet can move is limited by the outer shell. As your noggin and helmet are not round, the helmet is going to contact your head and not be able to rotate any more. This is true of both MIPS and standard helmets.

    Again, that's going to vary a lot depending on the design of the helmet. A tighter fitting lit with less padding and framing between you and the outer shell will be able to rotate less. More space will allow more movement. In fact the MIPS system is multi-layer so must take up more space. If you have two helmets using the same outer shell, one with MIPS and one without, it wouldn't surprise me if the MIPS one allowed less total overall movement.

    I wouldn't trust any data that the MIPS backers did publish. It is very easy to manipulate the numbers and design the tests to show exactly what you want and I would fully expect them to do that.

    Also, MIPS is an additional feature, not an additional component. It replaces the original liner so what you are paying for is something that probably costs little more to manufacture than the old part! And the extra cost over a non-MIPS helmet is usually a fair bit. Why is it so expensive? Royalties to the designers obviously and the manufacturers are making a higher profit on something that probably doesn't cost them any more to make.

    I'm not saying I think it's a scam. I am sure the originators of the idea have good intentions and I'm grateful people like them are working hard to improve our safety but if you put years of your life and probably hundreds of thousands of dollars into an idea you are going to want it to be a success. Even if it's only a slight improvement you're going to want to sell it and manufacturers are always looking for a new angle to make money from us.

    While I'm open to the idea that MIPS might offer a very slight improvement over a standard helmet, that's all I would expect it to do and there is zero independent evidence that MIPS does a damn thing.

  16. #16
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    This is not a scientific test: In looking at new helmets yesterday at the LBS I found one I liked and it had MIPs. It fit well too. Looking at and pushing on the MIPs liner I could see and feel how it rotated inside the helmet largely about the vertical axis. I put the helmet on and tried rotating it. The fore/aft elongated shape of my head ran into the elongated interior of the helmet stopping its rotation before I could discern any effect of the MIPs liner. This is just an isolated observation and not a simulation of a crash. The situation and dynamics in a crash would be much different. However, this and other observations lead me to believe, personally, that MIPs would do little and that its purported benefits are mainly marketing hype. If I were designing scientific tests to quantify the performance of MIPs I would come up with one set of tests. If I were designing scientific tests to justify its price, I would come up with another set of scientific tests. Personally, I don't like paying for or sporting something that I believe to have little benefit and that I believe is based mainly on marketing hype.

    Right now, I'm not buying MIPs, figuratively and literally.
    Do the math.

  17. #17
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    It would be nice to have some updated research on MIPS

    There just doesn't seem to be much available regarding recent research on MIPS. Anyone aware of more current information?

    https://helmets.org/mips.htm
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Looking at and pushing on the MIPs liner I could see and feel how it rotated inside the helmet largely about the vertical axis.

    I put the helmet on and tried rotating it. The fore/aft elongated shape of my head ran into the elongated interior of the helmet stopping its rotation before I could discern any effect of the MIPs liner.
    This is exactly what I mean. In theory the idea is sound but in reality, in many cases, I don't think it will do much of anything at all.

    I went for a Smith helmet because it made some sense to me. Again, there is zero independent testing to back up what the manufacturer is saying, but the idea seems logical to me. You're still just guessing, it's possible that the benefits of this system are marginal too, but I can understand how it works and how it could reduce the energy put into your head.


  19. #19
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    Interview about Koroyd:

    LINK

  20. #20
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    Didnít POC bring MIPS to the market only to abandon it for SPIN? Then the reviews on SPIN helmets say most people feel like theyíre just normal pads, that your scalp has more play in it than the pads?
    Iím all for a helmet that ďmayĒ be safer, but fit first!

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by farfromovin View Post
    Didnít POC bring MIPS to the market only to abandon it for SPIN?
    A slippy pad seems like a simple way to achieve the same result as the MIPS system.

    I was out last night and had a bit of a play. My helmet has the straw things in it which I reckon would dig into your scalp in a bad crash. I could feel them if I pushed the helmet hard against my head and rotated it. Thing is, even if they did I think they might cut if scratch the skin rather than grip my head solidly enough to rotate it.

    I can see rotation of your head or neck being a real problem in certain kinds of crash. What I don't see is any kind of MIPS or SPIN system making a lot of difference. What I see happening is the outer shell of the helmet gripping the ground and rotating, with or without MIPS, until the shell meets your skull and then your head getting twisted.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    A slippy pad seems like a simple way to achieve the same result as the MIPS system.

    I was out last night and had a bit of a play. My helmet has the straw things in it which I reckon would dig into your scalp in a bad crash. I could feel them if I pushed the helmet hard against my head and rotated it. Thing is, even if they did I think they might cut if scratch the skin rather than grip my head solidly enough to rotate it.

    I can see rotation of your head or neck being a real problem in certain kinds of crash. What I don't see is any kind of MIPS or SPIN system making a lot of difference. What I see happening is the outer shell of the helmet gripping the ground and rotating, with or without MIPS, until the shell meets your skull and then your head getting twisted.
    Virginia Tech have tested 30 helmets and found that MIPS preform best in reducing injury and the testing done backs up the claims made initially. So yes according to testing MIPS reduces injury. No non-MIPS helmet achieved the highest safety rating during testing. No your helmet slipping does not = MIPS for reasons above.

    BTW MIPS = SPIN same mechanism.. though neither is slipping its absorbing rotational forces which they measured.

    So there you have it, a good designed well fitting MIPS equipped helmet is shown to be the most effective at reducing injury. Although a poor helmet with MIPS is still poor.

    https://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/...essment-52514/

  23. #23
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    I would like to read that article but I don't access bikeradar any more because you can't view the site without disabling your ad blocker. And they can piss off.

  24. #24
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    Got a new helmet yesterday. Ended up with a Troy Lee Design A1 Classic with the MIPS (was just coincidence) and it fits really well and is quite comfortable. More so than my old Giro Phase.

    This is my first MIPS helmet so I have nothing to compare it against but like i said the fit is great.

    Like others have noted Iíd go fit and comfort over mips all things equal.

    Hope this helps
    J-

  25. #25
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    Site here: https://www.beam.vt.edu/helmet/bicyc...t-ratings.html

    No MTB helmets but the same tests would apply, either way MIPS tops out the charts even the cheap ones. Surprisingly the Cheap $75 MIPS specialised helmet outscores the top of the line Specialised $225 & $250 non MIPS Sworks.

    Still a bad helmet with MIPS = a bad helmet.

    They recommend a 4-5 Star rating as a minimum and so far it seems like you should avoid Skate style helmets generally....

  26. #26
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    When looking for helmets, I took advantage of Amazons return policy. I probably returned 3-4 of them before settling on one I liked.

  27. #27
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    Get the one that fits properly. That's the one that protects the most effectively.
    Otherwise, the helmet turns into a fashion statement.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Pig View Post
    I think MIPS is very overrated. All it does its allow the helmet to rotate relative to your head if it scrapes on the ground so firstly, it's only any help in one specific type of crash. Secondly, it doesn't let the helmet rotate much as your head is not round but the part that really gets me is that standard helmets can rotate on your head anyway!

    I wouldn't avoid a helmet with MIPS but I wouldn't pay more for one either. I went for a Smith helmet, without the optional MIPS.
    How does the Smith fit? I need an oblong helmet as opposed to round. Too round, and it dents my forehead and is too wide on the sides. I have POC Tectral, but the retention system has never been good. Need to get rid of it.
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  29. #29
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    I'm all into "fashion statements".
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    I'm all into "fashion statements".
    I was, until I started using all my wardrobe money on bikes stuff.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muirenn View Post
    I have POC Tectral, but the retention system has never been good. Need to get rid of it.
    What's the issue with the retention system?

    I have the Race Trabec and have been pleased with the retention system.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleared2land View Post
    What's the issue with the retention system?

    I have the Race Trabec and have been pleased with the retention system.
    I've tried two different ones. When you pull the helmet forward, the retention system stops...retaining. It becomes loose. If you look on this board, it's in several threads. The advice was to get a size smaller. Now I have a too small helmet (not enough space in between my head and the helmet) and it still pulls a little. I need to just eat the cost and buy a new helmet. I believe it's just the Tectral that has this issue. The helmet itself is perfect.
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  33. #33
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    My mips helmet ive never really liked. Its like a department store helmet and forces your head into the pads against the mips liner into the foam.. creates pressure points on my forehead and doesnt fit right. The helmet is a bontrager lithos mips.

    My specialized propero 2 for xc and gravel as well as my old bluegrass golden eye helmet your head tightens in a floating liner and it fits WAY better. Hitting tree branches the helmet doesnít transfer the impact... the mips i find its head against the foam so its direct transfer.

    Not really impressed. I wont be getting a mips again.


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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by solarplex View Post
    My specialized propero 2 for xc and gravel as well as my old bluegrass golden eye helmet your head tightens in a floating liner and it fits WAY better. Hitting tree branches the helmet doesnít transfer the impact...

    That is my personal favorite helmet retention design, UVEX does it really well.

    The alternative half-harness design basically crams your forehead into the front of the helmet as you tighten. That is why (ehh hem) the SB makes your helmet so much more comfortable.

  35. #35
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    Another vote for fit over MIPS. That said I would get MIPS if the fit was right. For whatever reason I have a hell of a time finding a helmet that fits well. While I have no info on how a sweat buster affects functionality of a helmet they are often the problem solver for fitment and comfort especially on my open faced helmets.

    Full face finally found that the Fox proframe fits perfectly with the change of internal pads they provide.

    Unfortunately I crash tested it the other day doing a double rock drop. While I canít vouch for the MIPS making any difference, I did split the chin bar, cracked the top front and remained conscious. Iím quite certain I would have a broken jaw without it and lucky didnít sustain a neck injury. Another proframe is in order and looking to get a Leatt.

  36. #36
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    Here's something that nobody told me before I accidentally bought a MIPS helmet...and by 'accidentally,' I mean I was not in the market for MIPS, but the price was right and it fit decent (which is as good a fit as I ever get on my long/tall/narrow skull):

    They suck ass for night riding. In fact, while using a typical small, strap-mounted light, it was pretty much impossible. Either you strap under the MIPS liner, and the helmet is loose, throwing your light everywhere and making it generally feel like you're a kid with a colander on his head...or you strap around the liner, probably negating the MIPS and still affecting the fit.

    I ended up throwing the strap away and using 3M tape to affix the light mount. Which is better, but still not great. Even if the MIPS liner itself is not moving inside the helmet, it's slick and would take a PERFECT fit to make the helmet as stationary as I would like. I'm purposefully avoiding MIPS in any future helmet purchases.

    Giro Montaro, FWIW.

  37. #37
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    I use a Giro Savant MIPS with a light and no issues. My light is an AY-UP with the older style mount that uses 4 zip ties to hold it to the vents at each corner of the mount. Zip ties go in space between the helmet and MIPS layer without problem. Helmet remains stable.

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