Helmet paranoia.- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Helmet paranoia.

    What is this with recent U.S. obsession with wearing bike helmets?

    Yeah, it does make sense when bombing down a mountain. But riding around in the city.


    Here are some pictures of bikers on the streets in Holland:

    https://www.pbase.com/photokohn/netherbikes

    See any helmets? See any death or destruction?



    Its fine. You are not gonna die on the spot if you ride to grocery without a lid.
    Last edited by Broccoli; 02-25-2010 at 09:44 PM.

  2. #2
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    I never had anyone swing their arm at me, or veer into me trying to run me off the road, while driving past in Europe.. I have in the US though, more than once. Otherwise, I agree... just like when on a motorcycle though, I don't trust people in cars.
    mike

  3. #3
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    Because the car lobbies proved to the public that bikes are dangerous?

    It is nice to know that i can leave my helmet behind when i move to the netherlands.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dysfunction
    I never had anyone swing their arm at me, or veer into me trying to run me off the road, while driving past in Europe.. I have in the US though, more than once. Otherwise, I agree... just like when on a motorcycle though, I don't trust people in cars.
    I'll second that. I've been hit and had people try to hit me or just try to scare me, I didn't wait around to ask which it was. I don't trust cars and ride in traffic too much to risk my brains.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Here are some pictures of bikers on the streets in Holland:

    https://www.pbase.com/photokohn/netherbikes

    See any helmets? See any death or destruction?



    Its fine. You are not gonna die on the spot if you ride to grocery without a lid.
    How many of those photos have a moving car in them? only 6 out of 35 photos have a car. Most of the streets appear to be quite narrow and short and some of the photos appear to be on the sidewalk or dedicated bicycle space. Because of the narrow short streets you're not going to get much speed up on your bicycle. Slow speeds and no traffic means very little danger.

    Those conditions do not exist in the USA or anywhere outside of europe. It's a extremely unfair comparison.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprunghunt
    Those conditions do not exist in the USA or anywhere outside of europe.
    As I said, paranoia.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    As I said, paranoia.
    you can tell that to my broken jaw, concussion, and saturday morning that I can't remember.

    It's not paranoia if you're right.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprunghunt
    It's not paranoia if you're right.
    But you are not. Whole countries ride without a full face on, and they are doing just fine. Yes, there are accidents. Just like with anything else.

    Effects of paranoia and strict helmet laws are lots of fat kids afraid to get out. People are afraid to ride a bike, like it is some death defying stunt that requires personal protection worn at all times.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    But you are not. Whole countries ride without a full face on, and they are doing just fine. Yes, there are accidents. Just like with anything else.

    Effects of paranoia and strict helmet laws are lots of fat kids afraid to get out.
    No. The US road system is really not designed for bicycles or even pedestrians. The netherlands has an extensive bicycle network which makes it one of the most bicycle friendly places in the world.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy

    See any helmets? See any death or destruction?

    You are not gonna die on the spot if you ride to grocery without a lid.
    Well, since you asked... One of my very oldest and best friends, a fit, experienced guy in his early 40s who'd just completed a pair of doctorates at UCSD and had started a hedge fund, was recently riding his bike- helmet-less- down a flat, open, dry street he'd been down a million times before. No one is quite sure what happened, but he endoed, hit his head, and was rushed immediately to a very good hospital, where an FMRI showed that there was no blood flow above his ears. He was taken off life support an hour later.

    So yes, in fact, I do see death.

    You're free to do as you please, but to heap scorn on others for making a decision that could save their life is irresponsible and borders on the immoral.

    jb

  11. #11
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    John Stossel apparently is an avid biker, riding to work daily, according to his own study wearing a helmet he found himself taking more chances, I believe this can be true as well. Safety gear while important, can and does give a person a false sense of security.
    A person is far better off not wearing a helmet and riding carefully, then wearing a helmet and riding like a moron, your absolute best defense is that which is between your ears to begin with.
    Most bicycle helmets will only protect the top of your head, few offer any real protection, but the feel good factor is there.
    Im not against helmets, they are a good Idea, the most severe injury to worry about if a car hits you is a head injury, so wearing a decent helmet will help prevent that to an extent.

    As for Europe, they have a very different attitude about many things, In America, It seems most the area's I have been cyclists are arrogant and try to ride in traffic, In europe they were riding well away from traffic from my memory. As do I, I cant get far enough out of the way of vehicles. In europe cycling is also very very common and Amsterdam has the largest bicycle population per capita, it also has the highest theft rate too.

  12. #12
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    And I've seen someone helmetless, standing still in a park, straddling the top tube on their bike while chatting with someone, overbalance when the bike rolled a couple of inches with their feet too close together and fall over and smack their head on a steel railing and the concrete, ending up being taken away in ambulance. Stuff happens, and organ donors are created.
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  13. #13
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    Curmy, I dare you to ride helmetless on the country highways in Texas. I dare you.

  14. #14
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    troll over? haha.

    Even the paranoid can be right.

  15. #15
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    Should I go find a picture of someone peacefully driving their car in Holland (because that would imply car wrecks never happen there either), and then complain about why they are wearing a seat belt? People wear helmets for safety, because accidents happen. Also, generalizing about a body of over 300 million people makes you sound like an uneducated bloke. Come ride your bike in any major U.S. city without a helmet, I would call that natural selection.

  16. #16
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    I know where I want to vacation and I'm taking my commuter bike. Isn't Holland like the flattest country in the world, don't they have more boats than cars, aren't cars in Holland really expensive to own, isn't Holland the size of a postage stamp, maybe if we compress the USA to the size of Holland and flatten it like a pancake we could all ride bikes with out helmets. Of course then where would we ride our MTBs, why would we need this forum, I think I'll keep my helmet.
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  17. #17
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    What's the worst that can happen if you wear a helmet? You didn't need it. Call it paranoia if you must, but I'll call it a good day.
    To the troll mobile, away...

  18. #18
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    If you're certain you'll never fall down, or get knocked down, accidentally or otherwise, then you must be riding on fluffy clouds in Shangri la. Most of your body can be repaired after an impact, with the exception of - guess what? - your brain. So putting caution over coolness has become part of the riding culture here. It means fewer people spending their remaining lives in homes for the neurologically impaired wearing drool cups.
    Use it, use it, use it while you still have it.

  19. #19
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    Reading through most of the posts its readily apparent that the vast majority are already using drool cups.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    John Stossel apparently is an avid biker, riding to work daily, according to his own study wearing a helmet he found himself taking more chances, I believe this can be true as well. Safety gear while important, can and does give a person a false sense of security.
    Well, that does it. If John Stossel believes it's fine to ride without a helmet I'm gonna strap on a helmet before I even think about bikes! Heck, I better put one on just to post on MTBR.com!

    C'mon, if you're going to resort to the appeal to authority fallacy at least point to someone with a smidgen of credibility.

  21. #21
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    My fiance's a nurse and she had a patient die last summer who was riding his bike on the road and got hit by a car. I have heard way too many stories of people getting hit by cars. Europe is far more bike friendly than the US.

  22. #22
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    I will admit if I am not wearing my helmet on a trail I will usually take it slower, but that really doesn't make it any safer. When you are going fast and flowing through sections it's a lot smoother. I will be the first to admit that I probably fallen more when I am going slow messing around then when I am riding fast. You don't know when an accident is going to happen and if you are wearing a decent helmet half the time you don't even realize you are wearing them. It's like wearing a safety harness when you are in a tree stand. You don't have to, but it's stupid not to, it doesn't restrict your movement nor are they uncomfortable, but if something should happen to go wrong it could save you life.

  23. #23
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    Eh...my area is frequently ranked among the worst cities in the US for pedestrian fatalities (car vs. bicycle incidents are generally considered a pedestrian accident). Granted the helmet is no guarantee that I will live through an incident but it does increase the odds. There is no way in hell would I go out on the road (or trail) without a helmet.
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  24. #24
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    If you wear a helmet you don't have to comb your hair.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyatt79m
    If you wear a helmet you don't have to comb your hair.
    :lol

  26. #26
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    We have bike lanes here in The Netherlands, and car drivers are accustomed to cyclists.

    When I ride my mtb or road bike I always wear a helmet, but when I commute or go the the supermarket on my 'Dutch bike' I never wear a helmet, no one here does that.

    Here are some more pics about Dutch bike culture: http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/
    Ride more!

  27. #27
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    I'll admit, when I first hopped on a bike, I refused to wear a helmet. All through high school I wouldn't do it. Frankly, I don't know how I survived. Every day, at the start of school and the end of it, that place was a traffic madhouse. I remember people calling me a "Bat Out of Hell' because every single afternoon, my immediate objective was to get as far away from the traffic as fast as possible, which meant I was mashing the pedals, hauling ass, and cutting through traffic to get of there. Every morning, I dealt with soccer moms and newly licensed drivers who didn't seem to notice the 6'3" 200lb+ guy on a bright red mountain bike. Multiple times I narrowly escaped being hit, run over, or run off the road.

    Having gone through all of that and looking back on it, I was stupid to have not worn a helmet. Yea, there are bike lanes here in NorCal, but I know how many people don't pay attention to that. At this point, if I'm on my bike, my helmet's on my head. No questions, no excuses.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk
    Curmy, I dare you to ride helmetless on the country highways in Texas. I dare you.
    Statistics says - nothing will happen that helmet would have prevented. Nothing.

    I do own a dozen of different helmets for various sports. Including three different bike helmets. When I ride around the neirborhood, I do not wear one - I am not in a danger of falling over. Riding your bike is not dangerous - or at least it is as dangerous as you make it.

    Responses on this thread are exactly what I have expected.

  29. #29
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    What about your pretty face? Shouldn't you be wearing a full-face helmet?
    Knee injuries can haunt you for years - why aren't you wearing knee pads?
    They also make neck protection gear - what if you land on your helmeted head and break your neck and are paralyzed - why aren't you wearing neck protection?
    Motorcycle jackets sometimes have spinal protection - if a car runs over you, it could break your spine. Motorcycle jackets also protect against road rash. You should wear one.

    People die falling in bathtubs - should we wear helmets in the shower?
    Wearing a helmet while riding a bike adds a small margin of safety, but it is hardly suicidal to ride without one. A lot of helmet zealots act like your head will explode if you so much as touch a bike without a helmet on. The funniest ones are the people who constantly crash and land on their heads - yes, you guys SHOULD wear helmets. It might be better if you could learn not to crash so much, but if not, a helmet is certainly a good thing for you.

  30. #30
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    If you don't want to wear a helmet, more power to you.
    But what you call paranoia I call common sense.

    Now if you came here looking for people to co-sign your stupidity... Good luck with that.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Effects of paranoia and strict helmet laws are lots of fat kids afraid to get out.
    HA! Thanks for my morning laugh! It has nothing to do with TV? Junk food? XBOX 360? NOoooooo! It has to do with paranoia and strict helmet laws!

    And I find it VERY naive to extend the idea that just because it may be safe in the Netherlands to ride without a helmet, it is safe in the US.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    What about your pretty face? Shouldn't you be wearing a full-face helmet?
    Knee injuries can haunt you for years - why aren't you wearing knee pads?
    They also make neck protection gear - what if you land on your helmeted head and break your neck and are paralyzed - why aren't you wearing neck protection?
    Motorcycle jackets sometimes have spinal protection - if a car runs over you, it could break your spine. Motorcycle jackets also protect against road rash. You should wear one.

    People die falling in bathtubs - should we wear helmets in the shower?
    Wearing a helmet while riding a bike adds a small margin of safety, but it is hardly suicidal to ride without one. A lot of helmet zealots act like your head will explode if you so much as touch a bike without a helmet on. The funniest ones are the people who constantly crash and land on their heads - yes, you guys SHOULD wear helmets. It might be better if you could learn not to crash so much, but if not, a helmet is certainly a good thing for you.
    Exactly.

    I wonder if all those name-calling fear-mongering zealots here are wearing there full-face in the shower. It improves there odds of making it out after all.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Exactly.

    I wonder if all those name-calling fear-mongering zealots here are wearing there full-face in the shower. It improves there odds of making it out after all.

    I got the message when the wife said she ain't taking care of no vegatable.

  34. #34
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    Statistics = damn lies.

    Recall the guy a couple weeks ago who did the header going a short distance without his helmet over a trail he rides every day?

    One of my buds crashed literally JRA, no stunts, no tricks just straightline riding on the street hit a small stone and did a header into a curb. His helmet had a curb shaped divit in it that could just as easy been his skull.

    Another managed to wipeout on the two mile circut around his 'block' in the country on pavement. He messed up a wrist but didn't mess up his head. About an inch thick groove in the pavement running in the direction of travel caused the crash.

    I've never taken a hit to the head while riding so far. I've crashed a few times and gone over without a crash or been lucky enough to run it out quite a few more but why take the chance.

    I don't think helmets for adults should be mandated any more than I agree with seatbelt laws or other nanny state legislation in general.
    BUT Murphy never sleeps and I choose not to give him any more opening than possible with regard to this subject.

  35. #35
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    On the trail yes, on the road yes, tooling around the neighborhood no.......it's pretty much up to you...... if you want to do dangerous things hey be my guest!
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  36. #36
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    I got my first helmet after doing a couple of endos on dirt paths, just tooling around the neighborhood.

  37. #37
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    I guess I'm really left wondering WTF you care about what someone else does
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  38. #38
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    Because you have ER DOCTORS in you home state there that like to pull infront of cyclists and slam on their brakes causing them to endo into back windows???

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    In America, It seems most the area's I have been cyclists are arrogant and try to ride in traffic, In europe they were riding well away from traffic from my memory.
    Arrogant? Most areas it's your only practical option.

    MTB or Roadie ride, helmet always.

    "Townie" bike to the grocery store/movies/restaurant/bar/etc. never a helmet. Life is too short to have helmet hair 24/7.

  40. #40
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    To each their own, in my opinion. Kind of childish to look down on people for choosing to safeguard their health by wearing helmets for cycling. I always wear one but have no problem with people choosing not to. After all, the world needs more organ donors.....

    Kind of a silly thread but fun to watch.....
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik
    troll over? haha.
    Over? Heck, no. We have the makings of a full fledged troll fight here, or a Fox News debate (For anyone who doesn't know the rules, if you don't have facts make your allegations loudly, insult anyone who disagrees with you, and above all treat everyone else like they're lesser beings because you are clearly more intelligent and morally superior.)
    To the troll mobile, away...

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by California L33
    Over? Heck, no. We have the makings of a full fledged troll fight here, or a Fox News debate (For anyone who doesn't know the rules, if you don't have facts make your allegations loudly, insult anyone who disagrees with you, and above all treat everyone else like they're lesser beings because you are clearly more intelligent and morally superior.)

    Nice job of outlining the troll war rules.... Well done.

    OK, now proceed.....
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by California L33
    and above all treat everyone else like they're lesser beings because you are clearly more intelligent and morally superior.
    But.. that is true.

    (Yes, I am trolling the helmet police. But that does not mean I do not have a point.)

  44. #44
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    what if I like helmet hair?

    I guess I'm a retart for wearing gloves to avoid scraping up my palms when I crash? Or wearing sunglasses to prevent debris from scratching my corneas.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk
    what if I like helmet hair?

    I guess I'm a retart for wearing gloves to avoid scraping up my palms when I crash? Or wearing sunglasses to prevent debris from scratching my corneas.
    Why it only one way or another?

    I wear a back protector, full face helmet, knee, elbow and shin pads, padded shorts, gloves with carbon knuckles when I ride some trails. Thinking about getting a Leatt brace.

    What does it have to do with risk assessment when riding a local bike path? It is perfectly safe.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by verve825
    Well, since you asked... One of my very oldest and best friends, a fit, experienced guy in his early 40s who'd just completed a pair of doctorates at UCSD and had started a hedge fund, was recently riding his bike- helmet-less- down a flat, open, dry street he'd been down a million times before. No one is quite sure what happened, but he endoed, hit his head, and was rushed immediately to a very good hospital, where an FMRI showed that there was no blood flow above his ears. He was taken off life support an hour later.

    So yes, in fact, I do see death.

    You're free to do as you please, but to heap scorn on others for making a decision that could save their life is irresponsible and borders on the immoral.

    jb
    +1

    YES, I see the death, destruction, and agony. My story is slightly different, but there.

    I'll reiterate: do what you want, but don't think you are going to ride with me, and don't be a jackarse to those who have chosen, for whatever reason, to take some basic safety precautions in life. You do not know their reasons or motives, nor should it matter.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by verve825
    So yes, in fact, I do see death.
    Everywhere?

    Quote Originally Posted by verve825
    You're free to do as you please, but to heap scorn on others for making a decision that could save their life is irresponsible and borders on the immoral.
    People fall down the stairs daily. They do not wear helmets. They drown in pools. Die for no apparent reason. It happens.

    The only scorn being heaped are from paranoid people who just assume that their personal risk assessment is the only true gospel.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    People die falling in bathtubs - should we wear helmets in the shower?

    I'm more worried about drowning. Can't be too safe.


  49. #49
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    Idea! Agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by verve825
    Well, since you asked... One of my very oldest and best friends, a fit, experienced guy in his early 40s who'd just completed a pair of doctorates at UCSD and had started a hedge fund, was recently riding his bike- helmet-less- down a flat, open, dry street he'd been down a million times before. No one is quite sure what happened, but he endoed, hit his head, and was rushed immediately to a very good hospital, where an FMRI showed that there was no blood flow above his ears. He was taken off life support an hour later.

    So yes, in fact, I do see death.

    You're free to do as you please, but to heap scorn on others for making a decision that could save their life is irresponsible and borders on the immoral.

    jb
    A former colleague of my sister's went down in a low speed collision with a pedestrian on a bike path. No one was speeding - they just got tangled up. The cyclist was dead on the spot.

    The physics of the human body falling off a bike lead to a high probability that you may hit your head, and do so from a height that can cause serious injury or death.

    Arguing that kids are fat or afraid to go outside because of helmet laws is pretty absurd.
    Last edited by HarryCallahan; 02-26-2010 at 03:24 PM.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    John Stossel apparently is an avid biker, riding to work daily, according to his own study wearing a helmet he found himself taking more chances, I believe this can be true as well. Safety gear while important, can and does give a person a false sense of security.
    A person is far better off not wearing a helmet and riding carefully, then wearing a helmet and riding like a moron, your absolute best defense is that which is between your ears to begin with.
    Most bicycle helmets will only protect the top of your head, few offer any real protection, but the feel good factor is there.
    Im not against helmets, they are a good Idea, the most severe injury to worry about if a car hits you is a head injury, so wearing a decent helmet will help prevent that to an extent.

    As for Europe, they have a very different attitude about many things, In America, It seems most the area's I have been cyclists are arrogant and try to ride in traffic, In europe they were riding well away from traffic from my memory. As do I, I cant get far enough out of the way of vehicles. In europe cycling is also very very common and Amsterdam has the largest bicycle population per capita, it also has the highest theft rate too.
    Not unlike yourself, John Stossel is a moron. Thanks for your worthless opinion.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Everywhere?.
    Everywhere.


    Can we have a different argument/troll session, please? This one's boring. How about a nice jesus freak vs heathen fight? Or maybe some hot limp wristed libtard on bigoted neocon action?

  52. #52
    wawe member
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreckedrex
    Everywhere.


    Can we have a different argument/troll session, please? This one's boring. How about a nice jesus freak vs heathen fight? Or maybe some hot limp wristed libtard on bigoted neocon action?
    Jesus never wore a helmet, discuss.

  53. #53
    Big Mac
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart
    Jesus never wore a helmet, discuss.
    Maybe not, but the Romans sure as hell did. Consider the outcome.

  54. #54
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    I can't afford to chance not wearing a helmet. Satan wants my soul.
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt I here
    rOCktoberfest 2015 pt II here

  55. #55
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    I'm more worried about getting hit by a car. i go in to a trance focusing when I'm riding and don't notice any thing except for the line i wanna ride. but i see people that were just going for a short ride on the bike trail and get hit by a car crossing the street. the worst Ive seen was a lady road biking doing about 25 30 mph hit one of the solid steel polls on the cape cod rail to keep cars off the trail. her handle bars just clipped it bent the wheel around the fork and bent the fork and threw her across the inter section. she brought her helmet and bike to the shop i work at with her the helmet pretty much blew up. just some things Ive seen, but i don't really see what the why its a big deal to wear a helmet. I'd rather wear it and have a better chance of surviving and riding another day. i really don't know what i would do if i couldn't ride my bike my life pretty much revolves around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by craftworks750
    Riding a mtb is like a reset button, 10 mins in and there is nothing else in the world that matters.
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  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffscott
    I got the message when the wife said she ain't taking care of no vegatable.
    Then, how come she's always perusing the cucumber and zucchini isle?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  57. #57
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    I wear a helmet because it's so god damn fashionable.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart
    Jesus never wore a helmet, discuss.
    And look where it got him!

  59. #59
    www.derbyrims.com
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    So true! No helmet needed if there's nothing under it to protect.

  60. #60
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    i never ride with a helmet on when i ride on the city streets.. but i do when i go of road

  61. #61
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    I can't believe this is even a question anymore. The weight that is added by wearing a helmet is so negligible compared to the benefit it MIGHT have. If you don't want to wear one on a local bike path or riding around the neighborhood, that's your choice.

    On the road, I'm always riding with a helmet. Cars scare me. Off road, it's skate bucket or FF depending on the ride, add to that Leatt Brace, armor, gloves, etc. if needed. I can't justify the risk based on a little extra weight. I feel naked without something on my head.
    Build.
    Ride.
    Repeat.

  62. #62
    jalopy jockey
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    I saw a woman ride right into one of those divider posts that keep cars off of rail trails. she fell hit her head. no helmet. she lived but still **** happens.

    re helmet hair. Just shave the **** off and stop worrying about it.

    That said the wife and I will occasionally ride rail trail without.

  63. #63
    BMX:Our Shining Future
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    This just makes me think of the importance of wearing leather jackets. I see too many bicycle riders that aren't wearing a good protective leather jacket and I think to myself: Don't they even care? Why don't they care? Why Not!?
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  64. #64
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    Originally Posted by Black Bart
    Jesus never wore a helmet, discuss.
    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    Maybe not, but the Romans sure as hell did. Consider the outcome.
    Game over, mbm65 takes the win!
    CAMBr West
    Gives us a couple bucks and we'll give you some trails with sweet jumps and stuff.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthemRider
    Well, that does it. If John Stossel believes it's fine to ride without a helmet I'm gonna strap on a helmet before I even think about bikes! Heck, I better put one on just to post on MTBR.com!

    C'mon, if you're going to resort to the appeal to authority fallacy at least point to someone with a smidgen of credibility.
    The myth of safety appeals to everyone, when people throw on a helmet and gear they automatically assume they will be saved, that is not true, often as is the case with his own personal study people will often take extra chances. Really take just a second to think about it, really, use some logic on this. This again, is not the first time this Ideology has came forth, the "spike in the steering wheel" theory was based on the action that if people really thought they would die should they hit something, they would of course, be extra careful.

    Now again, I am not by any means against the PROPER Helmet, however as stated before, many mythis surrounding helmets and protection, they can and do help in certain situations, depending on the type of helmet and of course the accident you are involed in, they are by no means, a guarentee that you will survive.


    Ask yourself this, why do you walk careful on ice? and what would make you not be so careful?

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    Not unlike yourself, John Stossel is a moron. Thanks for your worthless opinion.
    Touche

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    The myth of safety appeals to everyone, when people throw on a helmet and gear they automatically assume they will be saved, that is not true, often as is the case with his own personal study people will often take extra chances. Really take just a second to think about it, really, use some logic on this. This again, is not the first time this Ideology has came forth, the "spike in the steering wheel" theory was based on the action that if people really thought they would die should they hit something, they would of course, be extra careful.

    Now again, I am not by any means against the PROPER Helmet, however as stated before, many mythis surrounding helmets and protection, they can and do help in certain situations, depending on the type of helmet and of course the accident you are involed in, they are by no means, a guarentee that you will survive.


    Ask yourself this, why do you walk careful on ice? and what would make you not be so careful?
    I s'pose you may have a point. If I have a helmet on, I'll take extra risks, in the sense that I'll only ride if I have a helmet on, and if I don't have one on, I will not ride.

    Much the same as I will only drive with my seatbelt on.

    By your logic, we should all drive drunk because knowing that we're drunk and dangerous will make us all more careful and less prone to injury.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Statistics says - nothing will happen that helmet would have prevented. Nothing.

    I do own a dozen of different helmets for various sports. Including three different bike helmets. When I ride around the neirborhood, I do not wear one - I am not in a danger of falling over. Riding your bike is not dangerous - or at least it is as dangerous as you make it.

    Responses on this thread are exactly what I have expected.
    What do you mean you are not in danger of falling over? Anytime you are on two wheels, you are in danger of falling over no matter who you are from just getting off training wheels to the most advanced rider in the world. No one is immune from falling anytime and anywhere.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  69. #69
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    Helmets are not 100% foolproof and don't make a rider invincible on a bike. They are only designed to soften the impact of an accident to the head. Can you still get injured or die with a helmet on? Yes. There are so many variables in accidents and not everyone's accidents are the same. One guy could endo and walk away with shaken pride in one accident while the next guy may be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.

    Just depends on the individual situation but for the same situation with or without the helmet, I would take the helmet anyday - Might as well increase your chances of not getting hurt or worse.
    I don't use Strava. Don't need an application to tell me I am slow because I already know.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroja
    I s'pose you may have a point. If I have a helmet on, I'll take extra risks, in the sense that I'll only ride if I have a helmet on, and if I don't have one on, I will not ride.

    Much the same as I will only drive with my seatbelt on.

    By your logic, we should all drive drunk because knowing that we're drunk and dangerous will make us all more careful and less prone to injury.
    IM not exactly sure why you dont wear your helmet while showering/walking/climbing a ladder.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1997/nov/30/local/me-59193

    http://www.aap.org/advocacy/releases/july09bathtubs.htm

    http://www.transalt.org/files/newsro...dailynews.html

    I mean, if safety is the real case, you shouldnt get out of bed without a helmet.

    Of course, IM sure to avoid cardiac problems you always eat healthy.

  71. #71
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    Glad to hear your only concern is falling over Curmy. Hope some drunk idiot never runs you down from behind like a guy last month near where I live, on a quiet side street in the middle of the day. This type of thing could never happen where you live though, I'm certain.

    "Lynch suffered minor injuries and the impact cracked his cycling helmet. He was taken to a hospital." In the story on the news, his doctor said without a doubt he'd be dead from the impact without a helmet on. Enough reason for my "obsession" wearing a helmet in town.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blurr
    IM not exactly sure why you dont wear your helmet while showering/walking/climbing a ladder.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1997/nov/30/local/me-59193

    http://www.aap.org/advocacy/releases/july09bathtubs.htm

    http://www.transalt.org/files/newsro...dailynews.html

    I mean, if safety is the real case, you shouldnt get out of bed without a helmet.

    Of course, IM sure to avoid cardiac problems you always eat healthy.
    So then, you do drive drunk everywhere you go?

  73. #73
    It's about showing up.
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    One of my coaches was JRA

    down to the store, skidded and went down on a train rail. Whammed his helmeted head, stitches in knee and heel of left hand.

    Just wear a helmet you clowns. I can't believe people still argue about this.

  74. #74
    BMX:Our Shining Future
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    Let's ALL wear a leather riding jacket! This will make us more impervior to road rashes. When leaping across the street. Let's be safe. Like Marlon Brando. Safety First!! Wear a leather jacket when you ride. For Safety's Sake. For goodness sake!!! Wear your leather jacket when you ride. Be Safe!! Take Safety Breaks!!! Wear your leather jacket wilst taking safety breaks. Let's All Be Safe!
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  75. #75
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    One thing about bicycle deaths and helmet use is that there are almost no statistics kept.

    The closest thing you could find is a study in Manhattan of 225 cyclist deaths over 10 years, and only 3% of them were wearing helmets.

    On the other hand, there are plenty of studies involving motobikes and deaths. Here is one from Vietnam: http://www.bhsi.org/vietnam.htm

    Yes, yes, I know you can do 90mph in a twist of a throttle, but considering most accidents occur under 30mph, I think it does have some relevance.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightymouse
    Glad to hear your only concern is falling over Curmy.
    No, that is not my only concern.

    Couple years ago I parked in front of my house in the evening, got out and reached for a bag through my rear door. There was one single car driving down the street. It swerved and hit my car and myself. If it was about a few inches to the left, it would not have hit wheel on wheel with my parked car, and I would have been smashed and most likely dead. Made a very nice dent on the hood with my head (no, I was not wearing a helmet driving from office) and was throw down the street and smashed my shoulder a bit.

    Lady was reaching for her ringing cell phone as she told the cops.

    Shiт happens. I just think that keeping people scared about riding their bikes - and pushing protective gear tends to do just that - is not worth it. It is a small and manageable risk (and no, I am not saying that it is not an additional risk. It certainly is, and I am perfectly aware of it.) I have lost very close friends in skydiving and mountaineering accidents - right in front of my eyes, not that I do not know how it happens.

  77. #77
    Old man on a bike
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    I haven't noticed any particular national obsession with helmets, but then I'm not looking particularly, but I know what you mean. Just part of an overall preoccupation with fear/overprotection on many levels. I've run into a few parents who freak out over every little injury with their kids, hospitals for a cold, that sort of thing but that isn't the way I grew up. Same sort of thing as kids not being allowed to walk or ride their bikes to school and get driven instead (although when we were kids we would have thought that pretty awesome as it was only once in a great while the parents would give us a ride to school).

    I grew up riding bikes without helmets in any case, lived through it; only helmets on cyclists I ever saw were just pictures of pro road racers with the hairnet kind of helmet. When I got back into riding in my 30s the styrofoam helmets were available but I wasn't seeing the need until I watched a buddy who had been trying to get me to wear one smack his head so hard in a simple quick accident (helmeted) that I bought one the next day. Saved my head a few times since. It works for me, wearing a helmet while riding both road and trail just seems worth it. If I had kids I'd have them wear one, too. No armor, though, that's for wussies
    "...the people get the government they deserve..."
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  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidarnott
    Let's ....words, words, words...All Be Safe!
    Yellowstone?
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroja
    By your logic, we should all drive drunk because knowing that we're drunk and dangerous will make us all more careful and less prone to injury.
    The effects of alcohol do not correspond to the effects of safety gear. When drunk you feel in control but are more dangerous, when you drive without a seatbelt you feel more vulnerable which is true.

    Please start over with a new analogy, I'd suggest something involving Muhammad or Buddha.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart
    The effects of alcohol do not correspond to the effects of safety gear. When drunk you feel in control but are more dangerous, when you drive without a seatbelt you feel more vulnerable which is true.

    Please start over with a new analogy, I'd suggest something involving Muhammad or Buddha.
    So... Muhammad and Buddha riding with their helmets on is a lot like Muhammad and Buddha riding drunk?

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro
    One thing about bicycle deaths and helmet use is that there are almost no statistics kept.

    The closest thing you could find is a study in Manhattan of 225 cyclist deaths over 10 years, and only 3% of them were wearing helmets.

    On the other hand, there are plenty of studies involving motobikes and deaths. Here is one from Vietnam: http://www.bhsi.org/vietnam.htm

    Yes, yes, I know you can do 90mph in a twist of a throttle, but considering most accidents occur under 30mph, I think it does have some relevance.
    Most motorcycle accidents occure at under 35mph as well. I will read your report later when I have time, but third world traffic and ours cannot be compared on any level, insane and with the usual "life means nothing" mentality in those countries.

    The Hurt Report is the most comprehensive study ever done on motyorcycle accidents, much of it applies to cycling of course.

    It is very important as Hurt was a motorcyclist as well so that gave him a bit better perspective than most in his studies. I am going to go ahead and highlight a couple of things which I believe apply to this discussion, however I encourage all of you to read.
    Also to note, most serious motorcycle track riders/racers all ride cycles as well as much of the benefits from the training can cross over.
    http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcyc...dy-summary.htm

    Seventy-three percent of the accident-involved motorcycle riders used no eye protection, and it is likely that the wind on the unprotected eyes contributed in impairment of vision which delayed hazard detection.

    The most deadly injuries to the accident victims were injuries to the chest and head.

    The use of the safety helmet is the single critical factor in the prevention of reduction of head injury; the safety helmet which complies with FMVSS 218 is a significantly effective injury countermeasure.

    Safety helmet use caused no attenuation of critical traffic sounds, no limitation of precrash visual field, and no fatigue or loss of attention; no element of accident causation was related to helmet use.

    FMVSS 218 provides a high level of protection in traffic accidents, and needs modification only to increase coverage at the back of the head and demonstrate impact protection of the front of full facial coverage helmets, and insure all adult sizes for traffic use are covered by the standard.

    Helmeted riders and passengers showed significantly lower head and neck injury for all types of injury, at all levels of injury severity.

    The increased coverage of the full facial coverage helmet increases protection, and significantly reduces face injuries.

    There is not liability for neck injury by wearing a safety helmet; helmeted riders had less neck injuries than unhelmeted riders. Only four minor injuries were attributable to helmet use, and in each case the helmet prevented possible critical or fatal head injury.

    Sixty percent of the motorcyclists were not wearing safety helmets at the time of the accident. Of this group, 26% said they did not wear helmets because they were uncomfortable and inconvenient, and 53% simply had no expectation of accident involvement.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyroja
    So... Muhammad and Buddha riding with their helmets on is a lot like Muhammad and Buddha riding drunk?
    Strike 2.

    One more and you're out of this thread!

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart
    Strike 2.

    One more and you're out of this thread!
    So it's a baseball metaphor now?

    I can see how it fits. They wear helmets in baseball, too.

  84. #84
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    i usually feel like an idiot wearing a helmet, then i think, if i crash and my head hits the ground, ill be glad i have it on

  85. #85
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    There IS some of the nanny business, coming primarily from ER doctors and elitist bike clubs, about the 'life-saving' effects of helmets. I can personally vouch for the idea that helmets weren't considered AT ALL in many parts of the country 30-40 years ago, when I was as heavily into riding as I am now. I never even SAW a helmet until the 90's.

    But I wear one every ride now, as do my kids.

    Why? Because my helmeted head shared the impact with asphalt that SHATTERED my collarbone into six pieces less than 18 months ago. Because I believe with all my heart that my best result of that day without a helmet would have been a drooling semi-vegetable. And because my kids mean more to me than my own life.

    It costs them nothing, me very little, and is a personal choice. I care little to nothing whether or not anyone here wears a helmet or doesn't, or what they think about it. Your subsidized care won't come out of my poor pocket, in the way of taxes or anything else.

    There is some evidence out there, also, that drivers react differently to a helmeted rider, giving less consideration than to one helmetless.

    But helmet paranoia is, to put it nicely, hyperbole. We still have enough freedom in this country to thumb our noses at Ralph Nader and all his clones, and do what we please.

    I'm personally with nauc, to paraphrase: better to have it & not need it, than to need it & not have it -- but then, I'm the same way with pocket change....

  86. #86
    namagomi
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    How is it paranoia when all these people have a) broken a helmet b) seen somebody break theirs c) believe helmets prevent injury. Let's not forget the silent majority who think this argument is stupid or can't compose a sentence anymore.

    I want to further add

    Helmetless riders are a bunch of shallow dandies who rate cool hair higher than the ability to sign their name on a paper or control a bowel movement - Seriously this is what the big argument comes down to everywhere - shallow egos, haircuts and looks... put away your hairgel, combs, copy of jersey shores and slap a lid on your dome girly man.

    btw: comparing apples(New York) to oranges(Netherlands) is an ironically fruitless exercise.

  87. #87
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    uhh, you also don't see any of these people smiling either, so.. well there it is

  88. #88
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    About 40 years ago I rode my bike to elementary school every day. They did not even have bike helmets, to the best of my knowledge, back then. My best friend fell against a curve one morning hitting his head. He was never the same as it caused brain damage. This accident was low speed and just came outta no where.

    I look at the average $30 helmet available at any store these days and realize that he would most likely led a normal live had he been wearing one.

    Yeah, I know, accidents will happen. But I never forget that day.

    PS: You want to get me riled up, just start talking about how everyone picks up their dogs crap now days. Do they do that in Holland?
    Nobody cares...........

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbmb65
    Maybe not, but the Romans sure as hell did. Consider the outcome.
    LOL.
    Nobody cares...........

  90. #90
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    Jesus and helmet Nazis

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Bart
    Jesus never wore a helmet, discuss.
    Jesus only wore a helmet because someone else told him he had to. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some T-shirts to make.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Helmet paranoia.-jesus_crown_of_thorns.jpg  


  91. #91
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    What bugs me is that ALL helmets are made in China (even the $100 ones!!--go figure)...the manufacturers of that country don't have a great record on safety and adhering to QC requirements. Makes me wonder if the dam helmet will even work when I need it to.
    whatever...

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by steadite
    What bugs me is that ALL helmets are made in China (even the $100 ones!!--go figure)...the manufacturers of that country don't have a great record on safety and adhering to QC requirements. Makes me wonder if the dam helmet will even work when I need it to.
    Luckily, even the high tech helmets are pretty low tech. The foam crushes so your head doesn't. The shell is there to look pretty. (And I hope they test the occasional sample when they get to the U.S. or Europe.)
    To the troll mobile, away...

  93. #93
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    I never wore a helmet when i was a kid and i'm ok. Except that I bashed my head a whole lot and have every symptom of post concussion syndrome. It doesn't take much of a shot to my melon to knock me unconscious now. So, yeah, I wear a bucket all the time as do my kids.

    I do however, support everyone's right to choose for themselves because afterall, helmet hair is lame.

    Oh, and if I remember correctly (remember, multiple concussions), the motorcycle safety industry regards the Hurt Report as outdated and not necessarily accurate. I think there are more modern studies that have been done.

  94. #94
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    Worst thread ever.
    Ocala Mountain Bike Association - www.omba.org

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by steadite
    What bugs me is that ALL helmets are made in China (even the $100 ones!!--go figure)...the manufacturers of that country don't have a great record on safety and adhering to QC requirements.
    Really?

    How do you know this?

  96. #96
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    Can't believe this thread is still going. OP must be laughing his A$$ off at how many electrons have been expended on this. I suspect "mission accomplished" on his part.
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  97. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliernh
    Can't believe this thread is still going. OP must be laughing his A$$ off at how many electrons have been expended on this. I suspect "mission accomplished" on his part.
    someone's read a post by Curmy before . I haven't even been on these forums long, and I already know this is exactly his M.O., to be a douche and get people argueing

  98. #98
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    i'm pretty sure they don't make cadillac escalades and ford excursions in the netherlands. and i'm also pretty sure every mom with 1+ children and a drivers license doesn't own one like they seem to here in the US.

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    Stop feeding the damn troll. If hes gonna keep saying one thing, and you contradicting him it wont go anywhere, He will be the self righteous troll wether you have the last word or not, because he will not wear his helmet riding around. When i ride my streets in my neighborhood i dont. I get onto a main street i do. DC drivers and fairfax drivers are not kind to bikers. But anyways a troll is obvious

  100. #100
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    After my neighbor was hit by a car in front of his house and had his head cracked open on the curb I started to wear a helmet. Somehow he survived, but all the blood and ems workers changed my mind about helmets.

  101. #101
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    Honestly... ahh I give up

  102. #102
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    I worked in a hospital for 9 years in and out of the OR, I have seen at least 15 major head injuries where a helmet would have at least meant the rider would have not been a vegetable or didn't have to be wheelchair bound. All were the result of a car/bicycle accident, about a 50/50 split on who's fault it was. Most were guys in their 20's who thought they were invincible...pretty much describes this forum's age group.

    My helmet has already saved me once when I head butted a tree on an XC single track. Shiite happens, depends on if you want to be shiite or not if you ask me...plus I promised the head neuro nurse I would always wear it. She cared enough to take me aside and make me promise when she found out I rode a bicycle all the time, she didn't want me coming across her table with goo coming out my skull.

    Do what you want, I'll wear my helmet
    "Say good night to the bad guy."
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  103. #103
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    Back in the day when I was racing BMX we only wore our helmets if we were racing or if we were riding at some really gnarly spot. When we were doing our day-to-day sessions spent bombing El Granada Blvd (think descending/ascending highway 92), DJing, quarter-pipes, etc we basically never wore our helmets.

    For the last three years (after being away from bikes for a very long time) I've been sessioning Carlmont, Shells, secret spots and street with no helmet (only gloves). I have never had any hard hits my head, sans helmet.

    During the last year I built some DH trails (chutes, jumps, drops, quarter-pipe, uber-steep switch-backs, all with with lots of trees) and I decided that this trail calls for a little more protection so I ordered a 661 Comp 2 FF helmet. After using it for the first time yesterday I am stoked to be riding helmeted again after all of the crazy riding that I got away with. I plan on wearing my 661 for nearly all of my riding from now on. I simply had way more fun with the helmet on. And it was the healthy pleasure of riding hard, no longer heavily-tinged with the sick pleasure I derived from knowing that I was "hanging my ass out in the wind" and needlessly risking my teeth and the the skin on the sides of my face.

  104. #104
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    Where is the troll hiding? I don't see any bridges for him to hide under. Tricky fellow..... Can't be far away though, trolls like to watch their handiwork and this is classic at this point. At least silver medal caliber.
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  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    What is this with recent U.S. obsession with wearing bike helmets?

    Yeah, it does make sense when bombing down a mountain. But riding around in the city.


    Here are some pictures of bikers on the streets in Holland:

    https://www.pbase.com/photokohn/netherbikes

    See any helmets? See any death or destruction?



    Its fine. You are not gonna die on the spot if you ride to grocery without a lid.
    I used to reside in the Netherlands, separate bicycle lanes and traffic lights, very nice. Some cities are even connected with bicycle highways, asphalt roadways ten to twelve feet in width. If I recall, their law is that an automobile driver is automatically at fault in the event of a collision with a bicyclist or pedestrian.

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliernh
    Where is the troll hiding? I don't see any bridges for him to hide under. Tricky fellow..... Can't be far away though, trolls like to watch their handiwork and this is classic at this point. At least silver medal caliber.
    Actually, you are the one doing the trolling in this particular thread. You did not even care to actually read what I have said, nor did you provide any opinion of any substance, like some other people did.

    It will be quite useless to discuss anything any further with people like you. I have made my point, I do stand by it, you can continue waving hands and calling names.

  107. #107
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    Personally, I always wear a helmet. It's literally saved my life more than once (in accidents where a car was 100% at fault, and there was nothing I could have done to prevent them). Nothing like looking at the shattered remnants of a $200 dollar helmet and realising that it could have been your head to put things in perspective!
    That said, there are some very interesting studies that cast significant doubt on the benefits of compulsory helmet laws. Check out this site: http://www.cycle-helmets.com/helmet_statistics.html for literally dozens of examples.

  108. #108
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    This is kind of a stupid but interesting thread.

    Sometimes people say "if others don't wear helmets its not my concern"

    People not wearing helmets is a concern to everyone. IF you fall crack your head open because you're not wearing a helmet, your health insurance costs effect everyone. If you become a vegetable, get intubated, you are billing tax payers everywhere, not to mention taking up valuable resources that could be better used elsewhere.


    Granted maybe the helmet wouldn't have prevented death etc, isn't it worth the effort to look silly or carry a slight bit more weight?

    I would hate to spend the rest of my life learning how to propel a wheelchair control with my tongue because I wasn't wearing a thirty dollar helmet.
    "Chancho. When you are a man sometimes you wear stretchy pants... Its for fun..."

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whason
    This is kind of a stupid but interesting thread.

    Sometimes people say "if others don't wear helmets its not my concern"

    People not wearing helmets is a concern to everyone. IF you fall crack your head open because you're not wearing a helmet, your health insurance costs effect everyone. If you become a vegetable, get intubated, you are billing tax payers everywhere, not to mention taking up valuable resources that could be better used elsewhere.


    Granted maybe the helmet wouldn't have prevented death etc, isn't it worth the effort to look silly or carry a slight bit more weight?

    I would hate to spend the rest of my life learning how to propel a wheelchair control with my tongue because I wasn't wearing a thirty dollar helmet.
    This is a terrrible argument. If cycling is as dangerous as you think it is, then we shouldn't be cycling because someone else might have to pay for our medical bills. You even admitted that a helmet might not prevent all deaths and head injuries. Therefore, it stands to reason that we should refrain from engaging in ANY risky activities.

    Couldn't we also argue that we should all switch to low rider recumbents? After all, part of the problem is the height you fall from before you hit your head. Further, a recumbent rider is less likely to get catapulted over the front wheel and therefore is less likely to hit their head that way either.

    There is no proof whatsoever of the following statement - Riding a bike is dangerous but wearing a helmet makes it safe. The truth is that riding a bicycle involves a minimal amount of risk and wearing a helmet might mitigate a small amount of that risk but will not eliminate it.

  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whason
    This is kind of a stupid but interesting thread.

    Sometimes people say "if others don't wear helmets its not my concern"

    People not wearing helmets is a concern to everyone. IF you fall crack your head open because you're not wearing a helmet, your health insurance costs effect everyone. If you become a vegetable, get intubated, you are billing tax payers everywhere, not to mention taking up valuable resources that could be better used elsewhere.


    Granted maybe the helmet wouldn't have prevented death etc, isn't it worth the effort to look silly or carry a slight bit more weight?

    I would hate to spend the rest of my life learning how to propel a wheelchair control with my tongue because I wasn't wearing a thirty dollar helmet.
    Your post has totally swayed me, from now on I will always wear a helmet when I ride my old Schwinn to the local store.

    Although, what if I'm wearing my helmet and I fall and hit my head hard enough that I wind up in a comatose/vegetative state? What if I'm then trapped inside my own mind repeatedly thinking, "Why did you wear a helmet? If it wasn't for that 1" thick bit of styrofoam you'd be dead and not wasting tax payer money! Stupid, stupid, stupid...."

    Crap, I'm back on the fence now.

  111. #111
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    I smell troll, it's funny i remember a thread almost EXACTLY like this, people get so steamed about other people's oppinions; I personally don't wear a helmet riding down the street, should I? yes! But i also ride way more carefully; especially with the [email protected] nj drivers all around. wear helmets!
    "The sound of a car door opening in front of you is similar to the sound of a gun being cocked."

  112. #112
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    We actually need less safety devices.....
    There are far too many stupid people alive right now....
    go darwin lol

  113. #113
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    ...
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  114. #114
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    ^^ LOL, good one Shark!!!...... I've read lots of excuses on why most of you don't wear a helmet can you answer me on what's the one reason why you should?
    Last edited by shwinn8; 03-03-2010 at 08:24 PM.
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  115. #115
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    I don't know how many of you know the sound of your own skull hitting the cement, but I do. It's a lot different than taking a hit with a helmet. With a helmet, your ears ring for a couple minutes afterward. Without a helmet, your ears ring for a couple days afterward.

    And then after hearing that sound, if you are conscious, you get to wonder if you have just turned yourself into a vegetable. It's a great feeling, y'all should try it out.

    I was lucky, my shoulder took half the impact so my head only bled a little, but I couldn't use my arm normally for at least a week and a half.

    My crash was just a blast, I think it would have been better though if it had been a curb or sharp rock instead. Then I could be sitting in a wheelchair in some hell-hole of a care center instead of typing this.

    By all means, don't wear a helmet, this world needs more vegetables.

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by neongreen
    I don't know how many of you know the sound of your own skull hitting the cement, but I do. It's a lot different than taking a hit with a helmet. With a helmet, your ears ring for a couple minutes afterward. Without a helmet, your ears ring for a couple days afterward.

    And then after hearing that sound, if you are conscious, you get to wonder if you have just turned yourself into a vegetable. It's a great feeling, y'all should try it out.

    I was lucky, my shoulder took half the impact so my head only bled a little, but I couldn't use my arm normally for at least a week and a half.

    My crash was just a blast, I think it would have been better though if it had been a curb or sharp rock instead. Then I could be sitting in a wheelchair in some hell-hole of a care center instead of typing this.

    By all means, don't wear a helmet, this world needs more vegetables.
    You wrote:

    "By all means, don't wear a helmet, this world needs more vegetables."

    I believe you meant to state that we need to eat more vegetables.

  117. #117
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    And how can we eat vegetables unless there are vegetables to eat?

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by neongreen
    And how can we eat vegetables unless there are vegetables to eat?
    too funny

  119. #119
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    Let us not forget, the world needs more organ donors.....
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  120. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliernh
    Let us not forget, the world needs more organ donors.....
    as well as other donors

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by disfocus
    Personally, I always wear a helmet. It's literally saved my life more than once (in accidents where a car was 100% at fault, and there was nothing I could have done to prevent them). Nothing like looking at the shattered remnants of a $200 dollar helmet and realising that it could have been your head to put things in perspective!
    That said, there are some very interesting studies that cast significant doubt on the benefits of compulsory helmet laws. Check out this site: http://www.cycle-helmets.com/helmet_statistics.html for literally dozens of examples.
    That study is interesting. I interpret that the rising accident rate per rider numbers didn't change the accident rate per mile that was not reported. So after the mandatory helmet law there are fewer beginner and casual riders risking only very short distances on protected easy bike paths, which previously skewed the accident rate per rider statistics to the implied but false conclusion (IMO).

    No need for a helmet if there's nothing inside to protect.

  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by neongreen
    I don't know how many of you know the sound of your own skull hitting the cement, but I do. It's a lot different than taking a hit with a helmet. With a helmet, your ears ring for a couple minutes afterward. Without a helmet, your ears ring for a couple days afterward.

    And then after hearing that sound, if you are conscious, you get to wonder if you have just turned yourself into a vegetable. It's a great feeling, y'all should try it out.

    I was lucky, my shoulder took half the impact so my head only bled a little, but I couldn't use my arm normally for at least a week and a half.

    My crash was just a blast, I think it would have been better though if it had been a curb or sharp rock instead. Then I could be sitting in a wheelchair in some hell-hole of a care center instead of typing this.

    By all means, don't wear a helmet, this world needs more vegetables.
    I don't know how many of you know what it's like to get hit on your bike by a 1977 Lincoln Continental Mark V, but I do. It's a lot different than t-boning a kid on a Big Wheel. With a Big Wheel, your front wheel gets tangled up and you superman over your bars and the big wheel. It's actually kind of fun until you hit the sidewalk. With a Mark V, from the second you realize you're going to get hit you know it's not going to be fun.

    After everything comes to a stop and you know you're still alive you get confused why you can't get untangled from your bike, then figure out that the extra long threaded axle of your '70's kids bike has skewered your calf and you're still attached to it. Finally getting to your feet, notice your knee hurts, a ruptured bursa from yet another uncovered bolt. Then after you decide that you've lived, realizing that you will die when mom finds out you were riding your bike in good school pants which now have blood soaked puncture marks. That, my friend, is a scary feeling, so don't ride in your good clothes when you're a kid. I got lucky, mom loved me more than the pants, but don't chance it yourself.

    Luckily I wasn't wearing a helmet, as it surely would have become snagged on a piece of chrome trim and dragged me to my death.

    Helmets mess my hair and "Houston's" has a no hat rule. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

  123. #123
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    Q: Wearing a helmet is like wearing a seat belt, you could ride/drive without one... but why would you?

    A: We always need new material for the Darwin Awards.

  124. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by siwilliams
    A: We always need new material for the Darwin Awards.
    You got a whole bike riding country. Seen many nominees?

    I hope you all guys are constantly wearing a full protection suit when you get out of the house - after all, anything can happen at any time - I already shared a personal story to that effect here. I guess I should have been wearing one when getting out of the car near my house, and so should all of you.

  125. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by fliernh
    Let us not forget, the world needs more organ donors.....
    Nah, the world needs more threads about wearing helmets, because threads on helmets are so rare, and when they occur it's always such a well reasoned, educational experience for all concerned

    I'd be tempted to take this thread seriously, only that trying to comare the US to the Netherlands in terms of riding culture is like trying to compare apples to.... suspension bridges.

  126. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    You got a whole bike riding country. Seen many nominees?

    I hope you all guys are constantly wearing a full protection suit when you get out of the house - after all, anything can happen at any time - I already shared a personal story to that effect here. I guess I should have been wearing one when getting out of the car near my house, and so should all of you.

    An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure..... do you use a seat belt?

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim FtCO
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steadite
    What bugs me is that ALL helmets are made in China (even the $100 ones!!--go figure)...the manufacturers of that country don't have a great record on safety and adhering to QC requirements.


    Really?

    How do you know this?
    Well, I know the helmets are made in China because I read the label...duh.

    I "know" about manufacturing quality in China because I've been in numerous factories there and because I read the news.

    Just off the top of my head....lead in Mattel toys, cadmium in jewlery, tires made without critical layers, lead on window blinds, melamine in food products...it goes on and on. These aren't "mistakes" in manufacturing (which can happen anywhere), rather, what the examples have in common is deliberate cost-cutting at the expense of end-user safety.
    whatever...

  128. #128
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    I worked as an EMT in an emergency room for a while. I also worked on an ambulance for a while.

    First and foremost, my opinion - you can't tell a grown person what to do so do what you want.

    My experience - I've personally seen a friend endo on a ride, break his wrist, and crack his helmet in half. His head was fine.

    I've seen people come in with head injuries due to bicycle accidents, skateboarding accidents, skiing accidents. Aside from folks that stop breathing because of a closed head injury, or the stuff gushing out all over the place, it's kind of cool when you have a patient that's combative, puking all over other people, perseverating (repeating himself because he can't remember he just made the same statement), etc., etc.

    I once had a friend (paramedic) that dropped off a patient that hit his head while skiing. For the entire two hour ambulance ride from the ski resort to the hospital (where I was working) the patient repeated every 10 minutes "I am a Jehovah's witness and I don't want to receive any blood products". It's called perseverating. A helmet could have prevented that. I can tell you the paramedic's opinion of the situation as well....and it's not the first time (it won't be the last either).

    Don't want to wear a helmet? Fine - do what you want.

  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    You got a whole bike riding country. Seen many nominees?

    I hope you all guys are constantly wearing a full protection suit when you get out of the house - after all, anything can happen at any time - I already shared a personal story to that effect here. I guess I should have been wearing one when getting out of the car near my house, and so should all of you.

    I don't understand why you even care if other people wear helmets. Any reason?

    Chris

  130. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctxcrossx
    I don't understand why you even care if other people wear helmets. Any reason?
    I do not care about other people wearing helmets or not. As I have mentioned, I almost always wear one myself - I own a dozen for different sports. I do not wear one when riding on a local bike path, as it annoys me and I deem that safe enough (nothing is perfectly safe, even stepping out of your car in front of your home).

    Apparently my risk assessment is shared by a whole lot of people. I do not find it "stupid" in any form of shape. That particular photo gallery got my attention, and I have shared that here.

    I find it amusing that a whole lot of people are aggresively paranoid about some particular safety gear - just look at this very thread and the name calling that ensued.

    Quote Originally Posted by siwilliams
    do you use a seat belt?
    Yes. And I use a full face when riding DH. And when skiing. And two different ones for mountaneering and rock climbing. And one for kayaking. And one for boxing. And for roller skates. Not the one for skydiving - I quit that after my good friend rode it in - low turn, helmet did not help, I found him in 5 min, but he died in medivac heli, brain stem swelling.

  131. #131
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    Osture is right.....an automobile driver is automatically at fault in the event of a collision with a bicyclist or pedestrian.

    I live in The Netherlands, compared to other counties, commuting is great here. Bicycle lanes are great.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...d_fietspad.JPG

    But when I am on my road bike or on the trail, always a helmet. No Doubt....

  132. #132
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    In the Netherlands, they average 1.1 bike PER PERSON. That means every car driver is also a cyclist, so guess what? Car drivers respect cyclists and take driving near cyclists seriously because EVERYONE IS A CYCLIST.

    In the US and Canada, bikes on the road are an annoyance and hindrance to drivers who show it with aggressive driving and ambivalence.

    Here's an interview with a brain surgeon who operates on fallen cyclists. I think his opinion trumps any troll:

    While at the Bikes Belong in Ontario event, we met Dr. Charles Tator, a brain surgeon and founder of Thinkfirst, an organization with the mission to "prevent brain and spinal cord injury through education aimed at healthy behaviours in children and youth." He was there to promote helmet use by bicyclists; knowing this is a controversial subject among TreeHugger readers, we asked him a few questions.

    First, to set the scene, please describe the gory details of what you see in patients who have not worn helmets.
    When I go into public schools to speak to children on behalf of ThinkFirst, I bring a Jell-O mold in the shape of the brain to impress them about the fragility of the brain. The brain is like Jell-O. You only get one. We have not learned how to regenerate the injured brain. Protect the one you’ve got!

    What led you to found thinkfirst?
    As a brain surgeon at the Toronto Western Hospital and University of Toronto, I have helped many bicyclists during my 40 plus year career in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The worst have had irreparable brain damage, and they are either dead or severely disabled. The best have had only skull fractures and concussions, and they have recovered fully or almost fully. The worst have been unhelmeted.

    I founded ThinkFirst, Canada, a national injury prevention foundation in 1992. We have advocated for a number of injury prevention strategies in various activities including motor vehicle traffic, sports and recreation and falls. Our advocacy is based on our own research and those of others.

    Bicycling is a major cause of sports and recreation injuries in Ontario. For example, I have written a book about catastrophic injuries in sports and recreation based on our research in Ontario from 1986-1995. In this study, bicycling caused more head injuries that any other sports and recreational activity (to be published by University of Toronto Press, in 2008).

    We know that helmets are 85% effective in preventing head injury and in locations with helmet laws, helmet usage goes up and the incidence of injury goes down (see Cochrane Review, Macpherson and Spinks, 2007).

    Has it made a difference yet? what are the trends in helmet use on bikes? Should bike helmets be mandatory for all riders?
    Our research shows that currently only 42% of adult bikers in Toronto wear helmets. In my view, 58% of adult bicyclists in my city are taking an unnecessary risk of ending up on my operating room table.n Canada, each of us pays for the others’ risk taking behaviour because we have a national, comprehensive, government paid health plan. This is another reason I advocate for compulsory helmet use. Permanently comatose bikers each cost Canadians 8M$, and this leaves less money for treating brain tumors and other neurological disorders which sadly, we have not yet learned to prevent.

  133. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuckjgc
    In the Netherlands, they average 1.1 bike PER PERSON. That means every car driver is also a cyclist, so guess what? Car drivers respect cyclists and take driving near cyclists seriously because EVERYONE IS A CYCLIST.

    In the US and Canada, bikes on the road are an annoyance and hindrance to drivers who show it with aggressive driving and ambivalence.

    Here's an interview with a brain surgeon who operates on fallen cyclists. I think his opinion trumps any troll:

    While at the Bikes Belong in Ontario event, we met Dr. Charles Tator, a brain surgeon and founder of Thinkfirst, an organization with the mission to "prevent brain and spinal cord injury through education aimed at healthy behaviours in children and youth." He was there to promote helmet use by bicyclists; knowing this is a controversial subject among TreeHugger readers, we asked him a few questions.

    First, to set the scene, please describe the gory details of what you see in patients who have not worn helmets.
    When I go into public schools to speak to children on behalf of ThinkFirst, I bring a Jell-O mold in the shape of the brain to impress them about the fragility of the brain. The brain is like Jell-O. You only get one. We have not learned how to regenerate the injured brain. Protect the one you’ve got!

    What led you to found thinkfirst?
    As a brain surgeon at the Toronto Western Hospital and University of Toronto, I have helped many bicyclists during my 40 plus year career in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The worst have had irreparable brain damage, and they are either dead or severely disabled. The best have had only skull fractures and concussions, and they have recovered fully or almost fully. The worst have been unhelmeted.

    I founded ThinkFirst, Canada, a national injury prevention foundation in 1992. We have advocated for a number of injury prevention strategies in various activities including motor vehicle traffic, sports and recreation and falls. Our advocacy is based on our own research and those of others.

    Bicycling is a major cause of sports and recreation injuries in Ontario. For example, I have written a book about catastrophic injuries in sports and recreation based on our research in Ontario from 1986-1995. In this study, bicycling caused more head injuries that any other sports and recreational activity (to be published by University of Toronto Press, in 2008).

    We know that helmets are 85% effective in preventing head injury and in locations with helmet laws, helmet usage goes up and the incidence of injury goes down (see Cochrane Review, Macpherson and Spinks, 2007).

    Has it made a difference yet? what are the trends in helmet use on bikes? Should bike helmets be mandatory for all riders?
    Our research shows that currently only 42% of adult bikers in Toronto wear helmets. In my view, 58% of adult bicyclists in my city are taking an unnecessary risk of ending up on my operating room table.n Canada, each of us pays for the others’ risk taking behaviour because we have a national, comprehensive, government paid health plan. This is another reason I advocate for compulsory helmet use. Permanently comatose bikers each cost Canadians 8M$, and this leaves less money for treating brain tumors and other neurological disorders which sadly, we have not yet learned to prevent.
    Excellent post.

  134. #134
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    Here is a critique of the study that the brain surgeon cited which indicates that the study was not done with scientific rigor:

    http://www.cochranefeedback.com/cf/c...ewGroup=HM-INJ

    Call me stubborn (or thick headed) but I don't believe the numbers that the surgeon gave. Too many studies don't look at all the variables. For instance, people who ride safer also tend to wear helmets. Therefore, they would be less likely to crash in the first place and would be underrepresented on the surgeon's operating table.

    Also, the statement about mandatory helmet laws ignores the fact that when helmet laws are enacted a lot of people quit riding bikes. Therefore, injuries would go down regardless of the effectiveness of helmets. (This is what happened in Australia).

    From the New York Times in 2001:

    Head injuries going up with increased helmet usage. Between 1991 and 2001 two things happened: helmet use among cyclists soared, and head injuries soared along with it. Head injuries among cyclists went up by 10% on a simple basis, but when we factor in the dramatic decrease in the number of cyclists during that period, head injuries effectively went up by 51%

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29
    From the New York Times in 2001:
    .. when we factor in the dramatic decrease in the number of cyclists during that period, head injuries effectively went up by 51%

    Exactly.

    Nobody is disputing that without a helmet you have a higher probability of head injury if you get into an accident.

    That does not mean that it is exceedingly dangerous.

    Most people on this thread fly down rough trails at speeds that would stuff their head up their butt if they bite it. Lady on a cruiser riding down the street without a helmet are in orders of magnitude less danger. If you want to make helmet compulsory to her, you need to prohibit mountain biking outright.

    Macpherson and Spinks purport to show a useful effect of forbidding cyclists to ride without helmets. In this they have failed. They have also failed to address the main argument against helmet legislation, that it deters people from a healthy activity and may increase the accident rate.(Gillham and Fulton, Robinson 2003) They describe no literature search for such evidence; they merely assert its absence. They provide evidence for the unsurprising suggestion that enforced helmet laws may result in a modestly higher proportion of the remaining cyclists wearing helmets, but they offer no analysis of the costs in money and goodwill of enforcing an unpopular law.


    Conclusions

    This review is based on an inadequate literature search, omits the main work addressing its subject, uses inclusion and exclusion criteria that do not address the most serious quality issues with the literature, excludes at least one relevant study on spurious grounds, and fails to mention fatal criticism of a paper with which it shares a first author. It is invalid. It should be withdrawn at once

  136. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Statistics says - nothing will happen that helmet would have prevented. Nothing.

    I do own a dozen of different helmets for various sports. Including three different bike helmets. When I ride around the neirborhood, I do not wear one - I am not in a danger of falling over. Riding your bike is not dangerous - or at least it is as dangerous as you make it.

    Responses on this thread are exactly what I have expected.
    Helmets are best considered as a last-ditch defense in a layered system that emphasizes crash avoidance through bike control, following traffic rules, discouraging the maistakes of otheres, and avoiding getting caught up in the consequences of others' mistakes.

    There are times, even when you're doing everything right, that the situation will get out of control and there's nothing you can do to get away from it. In those cases, your personal protective gear (helmet, gloves, glasses, etc.) are all that stand between you and serious physical harm.

    Happened to me last Sunday, as a matter of fact, rear-ended by a drunk while stopped at a red light...
    Ride a mountain bike... you will not regret it if you live.
    (with apologies to Mark Twain & The Taming of the Bicycle)

  137. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    riding down the street
    Flying down the street, you mean, right? Or maybe you don't ride that way.

    Right hander coming up fast!

    Oh no! It's tightening up! Hairpin!

    Oh noooo...reverse hairpin!

    Debris on the street debris on the street...

    Ooooohhh--curb curb curb....[cue sirens]

    "Move him carefully--hip and elbow."

    "Lucky you were wearing a helmet, sir--look at this!"

  138. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit
    Flying down the street, you mean, right? Or maybe you don't ride that way.
    No, I do not ride that way on a street without protection. And the image you are describing - is clearly paranoidal.

    Maybe cruising with my son in an iBert seat down a bike path. My son wears an infant helmet, if you want to ask.

    Something like those folks do (random internet image of some hollywood people):


  139. #139
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    Now that's another thing I would not do.

  140. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit
    Now that's another thing I would not do.
    Why?

  141. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Why?

    A number of reasons, but the most significant is that the kid goes down hard.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit
    A number of reasons, but the most significant is that the kid goes down hard.
    Due to prison experiences?

  143. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit
    A number of reasons, but the most significant is that the kid goes down hard.
    Why would he go down hard?

    What do you think of those parents then:



    They can slip on a banana peel, you know.

    If anything, iBert seat is much safer then those that attach in the back. My son absolutely loves riding in it - since he was around 9 months.


    P.S. Some other random internet photo:


    What exactly is so dangerous here?
    Last edited by Broccoli; 03-08-2010 at 03:35 PM.

  144. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Why would he go down hard?
    Kid's up high, won't get an arm out, and the kid'll hit hard in even a tip-over.

    If the kid gets a weak little arm out, it'll be broken and rashed.

    In front or in back makes no difference to me, and of course kids don't know any better.

    Not impugning your parenting by any means (iBert at least has some leg protection), but knowing what can easily happen when we ride--no way. I'm not alone in my opinion about child bike seats.

    Check all your bolts again: stem, bar, quick release, etc. That can happen, also--ask my clavicle (1975, wearing a first-gen Bell biker helmet--remember those?).

  145. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit
    Not impugning your parenting by any means (iBert at least has some leg protection), but knowing what can easily happen when we ride--no way. I'm not alone in my opinion about child bike seats.
    Got any facts to back it up?

    Its perfectly safe in my opnion - as safe or safer as carrying your kid on your shoulders - or letting him play on one of those play structures (my brother had multiple fractures and a torn neck muscle from falling on one of those).

    I can not imagine depriving him of this experience due to some overblown nighmare scenarios in my head.

    When he grows up, I will climb El Capitan with him. And I will race an adventure race with my daughter. I would not be worrying about a child seat before that.

    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit
    Check all your bolts again: stem, bar, quick release, etc. That can happen, also--ask my clavicle (1974, wearing a first-gen Bell biker helmet--remember those?).
    I assemble all my gear myself, down to the last bolt. Its been fine so far. Maybe be I should start worrying - I am not a certified bicycle mechanic after all.

    In 1974 I was in Russia. I did not know what a helmet was.

  146. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    I did not know what a helmet was.

    I remember going into my lbs looking to buy a helmet.

    The owner asked who would EVER want to wear a helmet???

    The guy is still in business, wall o' helmets; he claims to not remember the convo.

    "Overblown nightmare scenarios"? It's your call and nobody else's.

    No kids up El Cap in a backpack!

  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit
    "Overblown nightmare scenarios"? It's your call and nobody else's.
    Yep. Risk management.

    The whole point of this thread was that when a very large group of people deems casual bike riding to be a sufficiently safe activity, it probably is.

    Quote Originally Posted by BadHabit
    No kids up El Cap in a backpack!
    Nah, not until he can haul me up.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    What is this with recent U.S. obsession with wearing bike helmets?

    Yeah, it does make sense when bombing down a mountain. But riding around in the city.


    Here are some pictures of bikers on the streets in Holland:

    https://www.pbase.com/photokohn/netherbikes

    See any helmets? See any death or destruction?



    Its fine. You are not gonna die on the spot if you ride to grocery without a lid.
    have you ever been to Holland?
    Brussels, or any where in Europe?
    "Be not afraid of going slowly but only of standing still." - Chinese Proverb

  149. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Yep. Risk management.

    The whole point of this thread was that when a very large group of people deems casual bike riding to be a sufficiently safe activity, it probably is.



    Nah, not until he can haul me up.
    Chances are everything will be fine.

  150. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireDog46
    have you ever been to Holland?
    Brussels, or any where in Europe?
    Yes, yes and yes.

  151. #151
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    Nuff said.

  152. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleman
    Nuff said.
    What does it have to do with riding your bike on a bike path?

    We can post some random pictures of gore all day.


  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    What does it have to do with riding your bike on a bike path?

    We can post some random pictures of gore all day.]


    Honestly... ahh I give up

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    What does it have to do with riding your bike on a bike path?

    We can post some random pictures of gore all day.

    Well, Curmy, perhaps it has to do with culture. Here in the U.S. I think wearing a helmet makes more sense because motorists for the most part seem to not care about cyclists sharing the road with them. I lived in Holland and enjoyed riding a bike for years without a helmet and each time I go back, I still do not wear a helmet. Many cities have bike paths separating you from cars and trucks. Even in the narrow streets of Amsterdam I still feel safe riding a bike without a helmet.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleman
    Well, Curmy, perhaps it has to do with culture. Here in the U.S. I think wearing a helmet makes more sense because motorists for the most part seem to not care about cyclists sharing the road with them. I lived in Holland and enjoyed riding a bike for years without a helmet and each time I go back, I still do not wear a helmet. Many cities have bike paths separating you from cars and trucks. Even in the narrow streets of Amsterdam I still feel safe riding a bike without a helmet.
    Drivers around here (San Francisco Bay Area) are some of the most careful I have seen around the world, and bike paths and neighborhood streets are not crowded.

    I do not ride in traffic - with or without a helmet.

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29

    Head injuries going up with increased helmet usage. Between 1991 and 2001 two things happened: helmet use among cyclists soared, and head injuries soared along with it. Head injuries among cyclists went up by 10% on a simple basis, but when we factor in the dramatic decrease in the number of cyclists during that period, head injuries effectively went up by 51%[/COLOR]
    Has it occurred to you that the reason head injuries soared was because previously they would have resulted in death, rather than injuries. The same thing happened when helmets were first used in WWI. They started treating a lot more head injuries.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    Drivers around here (San Francisco Bay Area) are some of the most careful I have seen around the world, and bike paths and neighborhood streets are not crowded.

    I do not ride in traffic - with or without a helmet.
    SF is not the norm in the US.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    SF is not the norm in the US.
    That is why I settled here.


    My brother dirt jumps in Moscow. I think you need an Iron Man suit riding there. Drivers deliberately hunt you down.

  159. #159
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    lol, edit edit.. edit and i'll eff'ing edit edit
    Last edited by shwinn8; 03-19-2010 at 10:49 PM.
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    I learned the hard way!!!!!

    I will be recovering from my moutain bike crash for several more weeks. I am a ER nurse and am angry at myself because I was only wearing my half shell not my fullface helmet. I crashed at 5mph after my front tire slid out on wet pavement. I sustained a cerebral contusion and subarachnoid bleeding in the brain. I strained my neck fractured fingers and hand bones. All I heard from the ER physician and the neurosurgeon was "Thank God you were wearing a helmet." I am now advocating full face helmets! I believe I would have less injury had I been wearing a fullface. I don't understand why you are calling safety awareness "paranoia". I can understand if a person was so paranoid about a head injury they never rode a bike again. I can't wait to get my cast removed from my hand so I can ride my bike to work and on the trails with my kids. P.S. spend a lot of money on a good helmet that fits poperly for you and your kids!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Helmet paranoia.-crash-2-.jpg  


  161. #161
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    one quick question KenPCPilot, was one of the doctors first questions " were you wearing your helmet?"
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  162. #162
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    We have a winner---THE NEW STUPIDEST THREAD.

    To helmet or not to helmet- That's the question. If you want to protect your egg then protect it, if you don't then don't. Personally I don't want my egg scrambled, so I wear a helmet. But at the end of the day it's an individual choice, so why is there a thread about it.

    As far as why it is pushed so hard in the USA--well haven't you figured out the USA is the land of the free--except where the government knows better? But they always know better, just ask them.
    We ride and never worry about the fall
    I guess that's just the cowboy in us all
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  163. #163
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    I work with the ER physician

    I work in the same ER where I was treated and knew the physician. The EMTs that transported me in the ambulance probably informed him when they called in their report. If I take a EMS call I always ask if the patient was wearing a helmet but most often the MEDICS will tell you. The doctor probably has seen me in the past wearing a helmet as I will ride my bike to work in the summer months.

  164. #164
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    is it protocol to ask if the patient was wearing a helmet?
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  165. #165
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    lets just end this stupid argument. wear a helmet if you want don't if you don't want to.
    Quote Originally Posted by craftworks750
    Riding a mtb is like a reset button, 10 mins in and there is nothing else in the world that matters.
    my bikes
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  166. #166
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    As they say "Stupid is as stupid does."
    13 Stumpy FSR Expert Carbon 29
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  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by NateHawk
    Curmy, I dare you to ride helmetless on the country highways in Texas. I dare you.

    Especially Houston.

    Given that very few roads down here outside of certain suburbs and downtown area's have neither bike lanes or shoulders, I think I'll stay paranoid. No body moves over unless they also cycle. With Cell phones and all the other distractions, it's kind of like russian roulette on a lot of roads.

    The Netherlands, like a lot of places in Europe has an infrastructure that was originally built around horse's and carriages. Here, the automobile is king. Cycling as a means of getting from point a-b is much more commonplace over there, and there is better infrastructure to support it. You also do not have the levels of traffic like you have here.

    Honestly, I don't care whether I look like a dork or a paranoid freak, that helmet could be the only thing that comes between spending my life as a vegetable or walking away.

    IDK, but sacrificing style points for keeping my meat in my head is kind of worth it to me. Ultimately, it's your decision, and Darwin has a funny way of keeping things in balance at times.


    My $.02

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by insanitylevel9
    lets just end this stupid argument. wear a helmet if you want don't if you don't want to.
    I was not arguing, that implies that I would be out to convince anybody. Nope. I was observing. As long as there are no mandatory laws, it does not really matter.

    As far as annoying laws - rangers in the local open space, two thirds of which is horse trails only - paid for with my tax dollars, who are actively enforcing 15mph speed limit for mountain bikes with radar guns and handing out $300 fines - that probably takes the cake.
    Last edited by Broccoli; 03-22-2010 at 10:01 AM.

  169. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by techgeekwill
    Honestly, I don't care whether I look like a dork or a paranoid freak, that helmet could be the only thing that comes between spending my life as a vegetable or walking away.

    IDK, but sacrificing style points for keeping my meat in my head is kind of worth it to me. Ultimately, it's your decision, and Darwin has a funny way of keeping things in balance at times.
    Why do not you wear a full face with a Leatt brace all the time? Seriously - why? It is a much, much better protection against terrible things you so worry about then just an XC lid.

  170. #170
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    Horse mounted ranger's handing out tickets in an open space for going over 15MPH? WTF.

    That's like enforcing a speed zone in a parking lot.

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by techgeekwill
    Horse mounted ranger's handing out tickets in an open space for going over 15MPH? WTF.

    That's like enforcing a speed zone in a parking lot.
    Yep. Especially on long flat fireroads. Another $100 if you do not have a helmet. Visit Nor Cal forum about the wonders of Mid-Peninsula Open Space.

    Rangers are actually on pickup trucks and motos - with radars. Sometimes they hide on a popular remote trail. Most trails are closed to bikes since we erode'em too much and spook expensive horses.

  172. #172
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    And add that to my list of reasons why I will never ever live in California.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by techgeekwill
    And add that to my list of reasons why I will never ever live in California.
    Adding to the list... 1) Nancy Pelosi 2) Radar guns for mountain bikes.

    P.S. But would not 15mph speed limit be an even better protection against head injuries then helmets? They should make it a law elsewhere.

  174. #174
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    I've loved the comedy pics in this thread... very funny. (loved the diver in the bath and the Gore!)

    I haven't got much to add - well nothing but personal opinion.
    PS. I'm from the UK and the drivers in Colorado and Utah were much nicer to me than some of the idiots we get on our tarmac. Just thought I'd share that not all of Europe loves bike riders.

  175. #175
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    ***ONLY CLICK THIS IF YOU ARE NOT SQUEAMISH!!!***

    (graphic and actual gore -seriously - you have been warned)

    https://images.encyclopediadramatica...earahelmet.jpg
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  176. #176
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    As they say "eww" ! Shouldn't be funny... but then - it reminds me of that old classic New Zealand film "Bad Taste"

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by markw1970
    Just thought I'd share that not all of Europe loves bike riders.
    That is true. In my personal opinion drivers around here - San Francisco Bay Area - are some of the most relaxed in the world.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curmy
    That is true. In my personal opinion drivers around here - San Francisco Bay Area - are some of the most relaxed in the world.
    Sounds like a good reason to book a holiday....
    Now, am I paranoid enough to bring my helmet? - (said very tongue in cheek!)

  179. #179
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    Free will is a wonderful thing - wear a helmet or not - it's a personal choice. I always wear one because at my age I need to protect what brain cells I have left.

    I line my helmet with foil so the aliens can't read my mind - you can't be too careful these days. :-)

  180. #180
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  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwragland
    Free will is a wonderful thing - wear a helmet or not - it's a personal choice. I always wear one because at my age I need to protect what brain cells I have left.

    I line my helmet with foil so the aliens can't read my mind - you can't be too careful these days. :-)
    Free will certainly is a wonderful thing (accepting, for the purpose of this discussion, that it exists).
    I would just prefer that if people exercise their free will and choose not to wear a helmet, then I should also be able to exercise my free will, and not have any of my taxes go towards their lifelong healthcare when they come a cropper!

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by disfocus
    I would just prefer that if people exercise their free will and choose not to wear a helmet, then I should also be able to exercise my free will, and not have any of my taxes go towards their lifelong healthcare when they come a cropper!
    If that is the case, you should ban mountain biking and any other potentially dangerous recreational activities altogether.

    It is far more dangerous to participate in a DH race then to ride on a bike path without a helmet. That is a simple fact.

  183. #183
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    The purpose of this thread is to create a culture of wearing a helmet.

    Take throwing litter on the side of the roads. People did all the time before the 70's. Then there was that commercial with the Indian crying about the trash.

    Now you're better off throwing yourself out a car window than a bottle or a bag.

    I can't make you wear a helmet but I say something because I want to create the culture. If you say "it is a free country", well then I'm free to say you should wear a helmet.

  184. #184
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    Just finished reading this thread.......

    ........why do I have this strange feeling as if I just watched Glen Beck or something?

  185. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by 23mjm
    We have a winner---THE NEW STUPIDEST THREAD.

    To helmet or not to helmet- That's the question. If you want to protect your egg then protect it, if you don't then don't. Personally I don't want my egg scrambled, so I wear a helmet. But at the end of the day it's an individual choice, so why is there a thread about it.
    https://www.frederiksamuel.com/blog/images/prohelm.jpg

    The regret must suck after busting your head up cause on not wearing a helmet!

  186. #186
    Five is right out
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    3,174
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro
    The purpose of this thread is to create a culture of wearing a helmet.
    This thread has no purpose except to waste electrons.

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