Xc bikes with aggressive geo- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Xc bikes with aggressive geo

    Trying to figure out a new bike, one more on the opposite end of the spectrum of my 34lb enduro bike.

    Ive got a lot of local trails that are pretty flat or short punchy climbs and downhills, and COULD be fun on something that pedals and holds speed really well. I also want to try a couple XC and endurance races.

    traditional XC bikes donít do anything for me, unless I really got into racing I canít see owning one. So Iím looking for something with a little more progressive geometry, and maybe a tad more travel. If I could have something in the 23-27lb range Iíd be happy.

    Obvious options are the following, smuggler, trail pistol, alchemy arctos st. Iíve ridden a following and a trail pistol and either one could be built a little lighter and be a fast little bike.
    But I could see there being a little too much overlap with my enduro bike.

    i wish there were more options in the 100-110 travel range slack and with a 120mm fork. A friend told me starling can build a 110mm murmur,
    Which is actually super appealing, Iíve always loved steel hardtails over carbon. other than the wait time and probably would be hard to keep the weight much under 28lbs or so, not a deal killer but if Iím building something to be good at climbing itís be nice to keep it light.

    any other options Iím not thinking of?

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    Iíve been eye balling the giant trance, intense sniper trail, and sc blur tr.

  3. #3
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    The term you're looking for is Downcountry.
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    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    Ibis Ripley v4.

  5. #5
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    The bikes you listed would be hot garbage on an XC course. Transitions pedal like a wet mattress.

    Intense Sniper, Scott Spark in their 120mm versions. SB100, too.


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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The bikes you listed would be hot garbage on an XC course. Transitions pedal like a wet mattress.
    That's funny.

    Intense Sniper, Scott Spark in their 120mm versions. SB100, too.
    If you include the SB100 we need to include nearly everything with a Fox 34 in front. Kona Hei Hei, Salsa Spearfish, Orbea, Scott, Intense for sure, the list goes on. I feel like most manufacturers have a bike that falls into this category.

    I know a couple guys that ride a Smuggler at local XC races. It's not a super efficient pedaling platform but they have no aspirations of making the podium either. Plus that bike makes up for it's lack of efficiency in fun factor when you point it down hill.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jyfly View Post
    Ibis Ripley v4.
    This. (assuming you're not racing)

    End of thread?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    That's funny.



    If you include the SB100 we need to include nearly everything with a Fox 34 in front. Kona Hei Hei, Salsa Spearfish, Orbea, Scott, Intense for sure, the list goes on. I feel like most manufacturers have a bike that falls into this category.

    I know a couple guys that ride a Smuggler at local XC races. It's not a super efficient pedaling platform but they have no aspirations of making the podium either. Plus that bike makes up for it's lack of efficiency in fun factor when you point it down hill.
    While the SB100 is heavy for what it is, it pedals extremely well. Superbly efficient bike. And, it can be built up sub-25lbs with a dropper with ease.

    If one has any inclination at all towards speed both up and down, Transition is just about the last company Iíd look at. Iíd rather ride plenty of 150mm+ bikes than a Smuggler.


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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    The term you're looking for is Downcountry.
    Was specifically trying to avoid that.. but yeah thatís the word.

  10. #10
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    Smuggler was probably my last choice. I thought the following and trail pistol pedaled extremely well, but yeah ideally Iíd have something just a tiny bit more pedaling/climbing oriented. SB100 is sweet but havenít been a huge fan of other yetis Iíve ridden.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by matto6 View Post
    This. (assuming you're not racing)

    End of thread?
    I havenít ridden an ibis that I really cared for. The geo at least looks somewhat modern finally, but Iíd definitely have e to demo one first.

  12. #12
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    I've got a Following set up XC'ish. I mean it's not a rocket ship going uphill...but it does pedal pretty well for what it can do downhill. I have two sets of wheels. One set of Roval Control Carbon with 2.25 Rocket Rons and another set of LB Recons with 2.35 Nobby Nic/Rock Razor. With the Controls...it weighs 25.6lbs.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Xc bikes with aggressive geo-img_1214.jpg  


  13. #13
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    KTM Scarp for XC as well. One guy has his full suspension Scarp down to 20.0 lb.
    Only thing is rear travel is very low (90mm). It's a true race bike for sure.

  14. #14
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    Not vunda plastic, but the Banshee Phantom is what you're looking for, 105mm rear, 120/130mm front, 67.5/68 HTA, decent reach for each size, pedals extremely well and feels as confident and fun as you want going down.
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

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    SB100 is Łber-efficient and might most fit what you're looking for IMO. I was thinking it was a little more "trail" but it gets more overwhelmed in rougher terrain than Ripley and other bikes that are 120r/130f that I've ridden. The geometry is great for XC and flatter terrain, not too steep STA but pretty slack HTA. I thought I would use it for more aggro stuff but now am thinking I'll use it for marathon races cuz it pedals better than my 429SL and the geo is also better and the weight is about the same.
    Yeti SB100
    Ibis Ripmo
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by scandy1 View Post
    Trying to figure out a new bike, one more on the opposite end of the spectrum of my 34lb enduro bike.

    Ive got a lot of local trails that are pretty flat or short punchy climbs and downhills, and COULD be fun on something that pedals and holds speed really well. I also want to try a couple XC and endurance races.

    traditional XC bikes donít do anything for me, unless I really got into racing I canít see owning one. So Iím looking for something with a little more progressive geometry, and maybe a tad more travel. If I could have something in the 23-27lb range Iíd be happy.

    Which is actually super appealing, Iíve always loved steel hardtails over carbon. other than the wait time and probably would be hard to keep the weight much under 28lbs or so, not a deal killer but if Iím building something to be good at climbing itís be nice to keep it light.

    any other options Iím not thinking of?
    If you love steel hardtails and want something more aggressive, why not build a steel hardtail? Could be in the that weight I would think. Should be fun and pedal well.
    Ragley Big Wig, Sunday Soundwave (BMX), Nashbar CXSS (workout)

  17. #17
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    If you ride a XL/21":

    https://www.jensonusa.com/Kona-TI-Ex...le-Jenson-Bike

    That frame alone was $2000.

  18. #18
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    Virtually any modern geo XC bike with a 120 fork and dropper fit your description.

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    A friend of mine rides an Intense Sniper pretty damn hard, seems like a very cool bike.

  20. #20
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    Same boat here, planning on getting a modern XC bike, with a 120 fork in the upcoming months:

    On the short list:
    SC Blur (no "trail" mode)
    Intense Sniper
    Orbea Oiz TR (demong this weekend)
    BMC Fourstroke (too XC?)
    Scott Spark (might not be the most progressive geometry?)

    All of these are a bit less burly as the ones you mentioned though

    I already excluded Yeti and Specialized for my own, stupid reasons.

    It's going to be a process though. I intend to demo a few of them, and build it on the cheap when I see good deals. XC/Marathon isn't my main riding, so I don't need it right away.
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  21. #21
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    Spot Ryve 115?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Spot Ryve 115?
    yeah the spots an interesting bike, i pedaled around a rollik briefly, great pedaling bike, felt a little conservative on the geometry.

    Thats the trouble im running into, seems like most bikes once they go under the 120 travel mark start to get steep and XC focused, understandably..

    I thought i remember hearing about a new XC bike with a really slack HTA and some pretty trail/enduro style geometry recently.

  23. #23
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    What do think you need for a slack HA? XC bikes won't have super slack head angles. They will be more slack now than 5 years ago. However with a dropper and 120 fork they will be very capable.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    What do think you need for a slack HA? XC bikes won't have super slack head angles. They will be more slack now than 5 years ago. However with a dropper and 120 fork they will be very capable.
    I would think something in the 65-67 degree range, I've spent so much time on super slack bikes im used to the handling on climbs and actually prefer it now. I just dont see a downside, and having ridden steeper bikes I just dont get along well with the handling.

    Id think 110 rear travel 120 front, short-medium length chainstays, longish reach, and a 66 degree head angle would be about perfect, if such a bike exists.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by scandy1 View Post
    Id think 110 rear travel 120 front, short-medium length chainstays, longish reach, and a 66 degree head angle would be about perfect, if such a bike exists.
    Seriously, as Lynx mentioned above, you describe a Banshee Phantom. Which is a super fun and capable bike. The *only* place it misses what you specify is the frame weight (8 pounds?) but you can make up for that a little on components.
    Edit: HA is actually 67.5 with a 120mm fork. I've been running 130 and 140 mm forks so I'm used to thinking of it as slacker.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by scandy1 View Post
    I would think something in the 65-67 degree range, ..
    Those are not XC bikes. Trail bikes is where you need to look. Most of these will have 120 rear travel and 120-140 front travel and you probably will not get to 23lbs. 27lbs if you spend 8k.
    Joe
    '18 Specialized Epic 29", Vassago Verhauen SS 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

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    Norco Revolver 120.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JScoot View Post
    Seriously, as Lynx mentioned above, you describe a Banshee Phantom. Which is a super fun and capable bike. The *only* place it misses what you specify is the frame weight (8 pounds?) but you can make up for that a little on components.
    Edit: HA is actually 67.5 with a 120mm fork. I've been running 130 and 140 mm forks so I'm used to thinking of it as slacker.
    Really digging that bike, bummer thereís not more similar options, if nothing else pops up that may be my top choice.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by scandy1 View Post
    yeah the spots an interesting bike, i pedaled around a rollik briefly, great pedaling bike, felt a little conservative on the geometry.

    Thats the trouble im running into, seems like most bikes once they go under the 120 travel mark start to get steep and XC focused, understandably..

    I thought i remember hearing about a new XC bike with a really slack HTA and some pretty trail/enduro style geometry recently.
    The Spot is a really heavy frame. Like I think it's heavier than a Ripmo frame.

    The Sniper sounds like exactly what you want. Very few compromises, pretty light, and it even has the option to be a 120/120 bike if you don't want 100/100. You can definitely get it to feel more like a mini enduro bike (mostly with wheels and tires) or like a slacker XC bike depending on what you want. Handling will be more familiar as the geo is probably more similar to what you have now too. You can build a 120mm Sniper into the high 22s/low 23s and a 100mm sniper into 21/22lbs.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by litany View Post
    The Spot is a really heavy frame. Like I think it's heavier than a Ripmo frame.
    Are you talking about the Rollik...b/c that enduro territory. The Ryve is their new XC-ish bike; according Spot, weights are around 23 (100mm version) and 24ish (115 version).

  31. #31
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    Orbea Oiz (has 120/120 option)
    Fezzari Signal Peak (120/120)
    Rocky Mountain Element (120/100)
    Scott Spark (120/120)
    Cannondale Scalpel SE
    Specialized Epic Evo

    I suspect it will be difficult to get the bike you are looking for at 23 lbs without going full XC (100/100) or doing a weight weenie build on a light frame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smartyiak View Post
    Are you talking about the Rollik...b/c that enduro territory. The Ryve is their new XC-ish bike; according Spot, weights are around 23 (100mm version) and 24ish (115 version).
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spot-r...tter-2019.html

    Frame weight: under 5.5lb w/ shock

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/gui...is/Ripmo,22473

    5lbs 15oz.

    Ok, I mis-remembered the frame weight of the ripmo, the ripmo is about half a pound heavier. Still, the Ryve is not a light frame. At 5.5lbs that's 2500g. The Scott spark is around 1800, the Spark RC is 1780g. The Sniper is 2200, and the Santa Cruz Blur is 2060. For an XC bike, the Spot is heavy. It's heavier than quite a few of them, by a significant amount. About a pound heavier than a santa cruz Blur? Yeah... it's closer in weight to an enduro bike frame than an XC frame.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by litany View Post
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spot-r...tter-2019.html

    Frame weight: under 5.5lb w/ shock

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/gui...is/Ripmo,22473

    5lbs 15oz.

    Ok, I mis-remembered the frame weight of the ripmo, the ripmo is about half a pound heavier. Still, the Ryve is not a light frame. At 5.5lbs that's 2500g. The Scott spark is around 1800, the Spark RC is 1780g. The Sniper is 2200, and the Santa Cruz Blur is 2060. For an XC bike, the Spot is heavy. It's heavier than quite a few of them, by a significant amount. About a pound heavier than a santa cruz Blur? Yeah...


    Frame weight doesnít bother me too much so long as itís not crazy. I mean Iím looking at a 7lb steel frame without shock and 8lb aluminum.. I know weights important for a bike like this but if it equates to a 26-27lb complete build vs 24-25, Iím ok with that to get a frame with the right geo. Iíd be scared of breaking a 2000 gram carbon frame on the descents so Iíd almost prefer a little heft.
    A burly build on blur or something more XC focused could be awesome. Itís just hard for me to want an XC race frame unless Iím really taking the racing seriously.

    That ryve is definitely appealing. I think itís between that, the short travel starling and the banshee.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by litany View Post
    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/spot-r...tter-2019.html

    Frame weight: under 5.5lb w/ shock

    https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/gui...is/Ripmo,22473

    5lbs 15oz.

    Ok, I mis-remembered the frame weight of the ripmo, the ripmo is about half a pound heavier. Still, the Ryve is not a light frame. At 5.5lbs that's 2500g. The Scott spark is around 1800, the Spark RC is 1780g. The Sniper is 2200, and the Santa Cruz Blur is 2060. For an XC bike, the Spot is heavy. It's heavier than quite a few of them, by a significant amount. About a pound heavier than a santa cruz Blur? Yeah... it's closer in weight to an enduro bike frame than an XC frame.
    That's fair, but everything's relative. Nobody builds a Ripmo the same way they do the short travel bikes; Ripmos are generally coming in around 30#. While the Ryve isn't touching the "true XC" bikes, it's weight is competitive with new Ripley (27-28), SB100 (27-28) and Tallboy (26-27) on stock builds.

  35. #35
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    I'm just gonna be honest for a minute. I spent years on an older style 100mm rear travel Giant Anthem 29er. When the original 100mm fork took a dump, I put a 120mm fork I had laying around on it. It was fun, but it was still an XC bike. I went through some frames on it. I recently picked up one of the new Giant Trance 29ers. They're marketed as 115 rear 130 front. There is some discussion over whether or not there's actually more travel than that on the rear. Either way, the bike pedals well enough that I run the shock wide open most of the time. I've played with the "pedal" and "lockout" positions some on a steep road climb and some trail stuff. For long climbs you can tell a difference, but for some of the shorter punchy rolling stuff if just makes the ride a little harsher. The Anthem never had a dropper, and the Trance, with the dropper and 2.6 tires on it weighs less than 2 pounds more than the Anthem did, right just under 28.5 - I think with a lighter set of tires, some lighter bars and carbon cranks, it could easily get down as low as the Anthem and still have the dropper. Looking at the geometry you're looking at, I think you're doing yourself a disservice by overlooking the Trance 29.

  36. #36
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    My choices would be a Santa Cruz 5010, Turner Flux or a Turner Czar. Im sure there are tons of similar bikes though.
    I was kinda thinking the same thing that the original poster is. Ive been there done that with a dedicated XC bike. Im looking into a longer travel, dropper seatpost, and a more laid back geometry for riding in places that warrant more of a XC bike, and maybe do some XC/ endurance events. The last time I raced XC was 2014.
    EXODUX Jeff

  37. #37
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    Xc bikes with aggressive geo

    Keep in mind that a given HA does not work out the same on a 160mm bike and a 100mm bike due to how much more dynamic the HA is on a longer travel bike.

    In other words, even though you might find a 68 deg HA too steep on a 160mm bike, It might feel fine on 100mm bike.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    In other words, even though you might find a 68 deg HA too steep on a 160mm bike, It might feel spot-on on a 100mm bike.
    Fixed

    There's a lot of variables, but there's a few good mid travel bikes with 130 ish rear travel that don't have super slack HTA's.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    The kona process 111 is also a good candidate. They are a bit stout, but handle great. there are a few places clearing out leftovers, you should be able to get a good deal.

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu Pidassle View Post
    The kona process 111 is also a good candidate. They are a bit stout, but handle great. there are a few places clearing out leftovers, you should be able to get a good deal.
    Do you have a link to new bikes that are for sale?
    Rigid SS 29er
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    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

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    Jenson and Cambria have Kona clearance sales.

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