What is "All Mountain" in your opinion?- Mtbr.com

View Poll Results: What size gap jump do you consider a 150mm all mountain bike should be able to handle

Voters
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  • 4ft or less

    1 2.78%
  • 5ft

    0 0%
  • 6ft

    1 2.78%
  • 7ft

    0 0%
  • 8ft

    2 5.56%
  • 9ft

    2 5.56%
  • 10ft

    2 5.56%
  • 11ft or more

    28 77.78%
Results 1 to 32 of 32
  1. #1
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    What is "All Mountain" in your opinion?

    So I am currently doing a warranty dance with a company that I will not yet name as the dance is on going.

    I have a 150mm travel "all mountain" carbon dual suspension frame for my son. The latest excuse they are using, and they have tried several questionable ones including the headset was done up too tight, is that the jump was too big and he landed flat.

    So my question is

    "As an end user and mountain biker, what size gap jump do consider appropriate for a 150mm all mountain frame?

    Sorry, no multiple choice, select the maximum you would consider.

    Thanks for your input

    Edit: Small size frame. Rider weight 48kg (less than 110lb)

    Edit 2: 150mm front travel (Fox 34's) 140mm rear (Rockshox Debonair Monarch Plus RC3)

  2. #2
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    This is a really tricky question emu because there are so many factors to take into consideration. Some people just jump and land lighter than others. Body English plays into it. But generally speaking, I would say a 150mm bike should easily handle 8’ gap jumps.
    DAAAANG...that was janky

  3. #3
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
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    Not enough info.
    :nono: :thumbsup:

  4. #4
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    I'm not an engineer but would have to imagine steep terrain at speed and smashing into roots, rocks, etc. would put more load on the front of a bike vs jumps. I would expect a 150mm carbon mountain bike to handle anything I'm capable of putting it through and thus far they have.

    I don't like shady business practices and brands not standing behind their product. I'd go to Felt(?) page here and elsewhere on the interwebs and lay this all out for all the world to read.

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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by noapathy View Post
    Not enough info.
    More added. Let me know what else you would like to add.

  6. #6
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    I can case a 4’ jump and destroy a bike, but land a 11’ jump perfectly smooth and have no issues.

    Tell them the size of the jump doesn’t mean shit. Landing to flat, prove it.

  7. #7
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    Obviously it depends on the jump (how pitchy is it? how smooth is the lander?). But this poll maxing out at 11ft is absurd unless you're landing in a chunky rock garden.

  8. #8
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    This has already been viewed way more than votes cast, please vote. Honest opinions on the info you have at hand, if you need more than let me know

  9. #9
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    A kid that size should be able to do Rampage sized hits on a carbon full suspension bike with 150 travel. Whoever they are knows this, and sucks at QC. Why you don’t want to drag them through the mud if anyone’s guess.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by yzedf View Post
    A kid that size should be able to do Rampage sized hits on a carbon full suspension bike with 150 travel. Whoever they are knows this, and sucks at QC. Why you don’t want to drag them through the mud if anyone’s guess.
    I am more than happy having robust discussion with people on various topics ad-nauseam,as some on these forums will confirm, but I am not confrontational by nature and would rather resolve this amicably. My last reply to them to hint that your approach is on the horizon and rapidly approaching. You are not the only person that has suggested I name and shame BTW.

  11. #11
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    Just to clarify, are we talking about 150mm of front suspension or rear? You should always classify the bike by how much rear suspension it has, not the front fork.

    "All Mountain" is clearly defined as a rowdy bike. Frankly it's right up there with Enduro which is shouldered up against Freeride which overlaps with DH. Most bikes labeled as All Mountain will have 140-160mm of rear travel to my knowledge.

    All Mountain designation means a seriously tough bike that is meant to hit some burly stuff. There isn't a single All Mountain bike, or even a Trail bike (120-140mm), that can't handle a 110lb rider doing a 8ft gap jump on the market. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    This has already been viewed way more than votes cast, please vote. Honest opinions on the info you have at hand, if you need more than let me know
    Not everyone reading this has enough knowledge to share a relevant opinion. Most are probably just curious or looking for an interesting topic of conversation. Nothing wrong with that. I'd rather people read and learn instead of posting idiotic opinions that aren't relevant. Just my $.02
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  12. #12
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    Thanks *onespeed* 140mm rear, 150mm front as specced. I have clarified that in the original post with edit 2.

  13. #13
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    I huck-2-flat all the time and I weigh 245lb's!!

    I smell something stinky and brown!!

    I've just gone through warranty process on some carbon hoops that I spent a crap-load of money on.

    Bearings failed twice in 6 months.

    'As long as the wheel was installed properly', was one line I got

    I explained I run 4 steeds and I try and spread my time evenly between each (my kids will grow into the ones I don't need), so the bike had literally done fewer than 6 rides each time the bearings failed.

    After some good discourse, the boss admitted they'd had this issue a couple of times before.

    It was their own design, high POE rear hub.

    Wheels are warrantied for the life of original buyer.

    He tried to get me to be an experiment i.e. when things failed I'd send back wheel (their dollar) and they'd send it back after installing different bearings.

    I said 'no' to that and asked that a DT Swiss rear hub be used to rebuild the wheel.

    I did raise the point, if they wanted someone to test different bearings etc. they could build up a test wheel and ship it with my rebuilt wheel.

    That fell on deaf ears.

    Just got my rebuilt wheel back w/ DT Swiss hub installed.

    I've had issues in the past with different hubs, Shimano, Sram, Novatec etc.

    DT Swiss are the only rear hub I've found that are Clyde proof.

    I run them on all my bikes.

    Best of luck getting this sorted.

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  14. #14
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    What are the terms of the warranty?

    Is whatever has failed demonstably a manufacturing fault? What has failed? What had he been riding prior to the jump it failed on? Has he crashed it previously?

    Warranty doesn't necessarily mean they will fix/replace regardless of what has happened.

    Theres no answer to the 'how big should the jump be', as it depends on looooads of factors.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    So I am currently doing a warranty dance with a company that I will not yet name as the dance is on going.

    I have a 150mm travel "all mountain" carbon dual suspension frame for my son. The latest excuse they are using, and they have tried several questionable ones including the headset was done up too tight, is that the jump was too big and he landed flat.

    So my question is

    "As an end user and mountain biker, what size gap jump do consider appropriate for a 150mm all mountain frame?

    Sorry, no multiple choice, select the maximum you would consider.

    Thanks for your input

    Edit: Small size frame. Rider weight 48kg (less than 110lb)

    Edit 2: 150mm front travel (Fox 34's) 140mm rear (Rockshox Debonair Monarch Plus RC3)
    Well, I'll go out on a limb and say that a 48kg rider can reasonably go pretty big on any good frame designed around a 150 34 and a 140 Monarch and not expect major failure.

    Of course, size of the gap doesn't matter as much as how good the tranny is, how high you go and maybe how steezy you get; but a 150/140 bike is not an XC rig, and a decent manufacturer should know that people aren't just riding on sidewalks.

    Good luck with your warranty claim, though. The terms, "reasonable" and "decent" sometimes don't apply in the bike industry.

  16. #16
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    Depends entirely on the landing.
    What, me worry?

  17. #17
    No good in rock gardens..
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    Depends if you dress like an enduro-bro, or not.
    Less isn't MOAR

  18. #18
    BOOM goes the dynamite!
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26 View Post
    More added. Let me know what else you would like to add.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorCal_In_AZ View Post
    I can case a 4’ jump and destroy a bike, but land a 11’ jump perfectly smooth and have no issues.

    Tell them the size of the jump doesn’t mean shit. Landing to flat, prove it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lone Rager View Post
    Depends entirely on the landing.
    Something along these lines, but there are lots of factors. Not sure how a tight headset would factor in. What broke?

    I think the distance alone is irrelevant in regards to a warranty claim.
    :nono: :thumbsup:

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sideknob View Post
    Depends if you dress like an enduro-bro, or not.
    Yeah, is there a flat brim involved?
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  20. #20
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    You are way under estimating in your distances as to what is possible to gap jump. Turn those into measurements into meters rather than feet and its closer to the mark. An 11" jump is only 3.3 meters.

    An 11 meter jump. Now that is an interesting jump.

  21. #21
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    Now to answer your question a 48kg dude is going to have to ride pretty damn hard for months and months to break a carbon frame.

    Where did it break. Do you have a photo. I have some carbon knowledge and can probably lend an opinion of how/why it broke there.

  22. #22
    Elitest thrill junkie
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    What the hell?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  23. #23
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    omg was it a Chiner frame?

    11' or more.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TylerVernon View Post
    omg was it a Chiner frame?

    11' or more.
    hah, no it wasn't.

    Before I built this branded frame up for him he had a $350A china carbon xc hardtail frame. He "jumped" that off a rock ledge onto a slope, went much further than expected, still only about 1.5m, landed off balance and went front wheel first into a tree stump. Bike stopped immediately "super-manning" over the bars. Broke both ulna and radius, the frame was fine and he still rides it. This failure is on a "premium" branded frame with an RRP of around $3500A. (No, I didn't pay that much)

  25. #25
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    I never considered jumping anything as mandatory for a bike to be be called "All Mountain" so I didn't check anything.

    To me "All Mountain" means I can ride the whole mountain and I can easily do that without requiring my wheels to leave Mother Earth.

    I guess that puts me in the "more information needed" category.

    "All Mountain, Trail, XC, Enduro, Downhill, Down Country" are just marketing terms for mountain biking.

    I expect a decent rider can ride anything on anything, adjusting their technique to their bike. I ride the same things on my 26" steel hardtail as I do on my 27.5" 125mm/140mm FS and will ride the same on the 29", 120mm/130mm FS I have on order. *R/F travel

  26. #26
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    I consider all mountain to be too vague of a term to put specific numbers on it.

    Hell, I have an old Cannondale POP banner hanging in my garage that has a dude on a VERY xc Cannondale hardtail riding a chunky spot on the trail with the words "All Mountain" at the top of it.

    About all I can say is that manufacturers have always used the term as a vague reference to bikes/trails/riding that's rougher than the older stereotypically smooth xc courses (which have been getting more chunk in recent years to make them more interesting). Considering that the word was being used at some point for xc bikes on rougher terrain, I'd say that the term "all mountain" is even a moving target.

    That said, I consider pretty much any quality mtb these days to be something that can handle jumps and drops at some level. The real question is what happened at the landing. Crash anything, and all bets are off. If the landing was clean, but maybe a little weird, I'd say bets are still off.

  27. #27
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    A gap jump, measured horizontally? If you land a gap jump smoothly, you could go enormous on most trail bikes.

    You're not on the board of directors for the brand, throw them under the bus. Post a picture of the frame. The more info the better!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    Now to answer your question a 48kg dude is going to have to ride pretty damn hard for months and months to break a carbon frame.

    Where did it break. Do you have a photo. I have some carbon knowledge and can probably lend an opinion of how/why it broke there.
    PM sent

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    You are way under estimating in your distances as to what is possible to gap jump. Turn those into measurements into meters rather than feet and its closer to the mark. An 11" jump is only 3.3 meters.

    An 11 meter jump. Now that is an interesting jump.
    Yup.

    I've seen my kid do 30+ footers on an old Ibis Mojo SL.
    I see local kids hit 20+ footers on beat up BMX bikes and 15 year old MTBs regularly.

    What is "All Mountain" in your opinion?-img_2838.jpg

    11' even with 0" of travel is nothing, unless it's an 11' wheelie-drop to flat.
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  30. #30
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    Yeah, I mean you should be able to jump 11ft on foot.

  31. #31
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    Denying warranty on an expensive frame is a dog move. Part of what you are paying for in a premium product is premium after sales support.

    Name and shame them, its the only thing that motivates some companies to do the right thing.

  32. #32
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    Have come to a good resolution with the e-tailer but completely unsatisfactory experience from the manufacturer, Felt. Details here https://forums.mtbr.com/felt/felt-wa...l#post14944957

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