Trek Remedy vs Cannondale Jekyll- Mtbr.com
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  1. #1
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    Trek Remedy vs Cannondale Jekyll

    G'day All,

    Its new bike time and have my sights on a 2019 Remedy 9.8 or a '18/'19 Jekyll 2 27.5

    Bit of background - previous bikes: Transition Covert (27.5 160/160) Santa Cruz Heckler (26 150/150) Cannondale Prophet (26 140/145) and loads more before that.

    I'm in Brisbane Australia - we do not have the 8000ft rides you lot do in the States. Do a lot of 2 to 3 hour trail rides but love the regular shuttle days doing lots of semi and full down hill stuff (but i don't own a DH bike anymore).

    Im in my mid 50's - but dont let that fool you. Fast and hard and scare the shit outta myself is what i love.

    Would rather give up a little on the climbs if it gains me a good advantage on the downs.

    Im struggling to decide (great deals available on both but typical Australia - no chance to test ride). I know the Remedy will have the advantage on the ups (but by how much?) and the Jekyll will have the advantage on the way down (but, how much).

    Would really appreciate input from anyone with experience on either and/or both bikes.

    Cheers, iain

  2. #2
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    If you're a size S and M, go Jekyll. L or XL, go Remedy.

    I got time on a Jekyll in M, and wish it had a steeper STA as there was too much weight bias on the rear while seated. Weight bias was absolutely perfect out of the saddle though, and that's where it mattered. Just a bummer that it wasn't perfect. It was especially noticeable riding with slower folk, pacing off of them, as I wasn't really able to climb out of the saddle efficiently unless I was going at my own pace.

  3. #3
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    I'd go with the Remedy, but I'm biased.
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  4. #4
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    Have the Remedy and it rips. Hops off of everything. It is my only bike so I use it for all of my riding.
    2019 Trek Remedy
    2014 Trek Remedy 8 29er
    2011 Trek Scratch Air 8
    2011 Reign 2
    2008 p.2

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    I'd go with the Remedy, but I'm biased.
    Hi mate,

    Thanks for the reply.

    Why are you biased - do you work for / sell Trek?? Why would you select the Remedy over the Jekyll for a bike this is mainly for the downs (but is comfortable on the up)

    Cheers, iain

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    If you're a size S and M, go Jekyll. L or XL, go Remedy.

    I got time on a Jekyll in M, and wish it had a steeper STA as there was too much weight bias on the rear while seated. Weight bias was absolutely perfect out of the saddle though, and that's where it mattered. Just a bummer that it wasn't perfect. It was especially noticeable riding with slower folk, pacing off of them, as I wasn't really able to climb out of the saddle efficiently unless I was going at my own pace.
    G'day Mate,

    Thanks for the reply.

    Interested in your S/M vs L/XL comment - care to expand (im a medium btw).

    STA - i'm no geo snob - but i thought the 18/19 Jekyll have a relatively steep HTA at around the 74.5 degree mark (don't quote me). That angle, and steep generally, tends to be the trend as an 'aid to climbing and body position over cranks' (again, don't quote me).

    I guess im wanting a bike that i can do a 2 - 3 'trail / all mountain' ride on (whatever the hell that definition means) - but really comes alive when the trail turns downhill and most of the ups are in the back of a shuttle truck.

    If the Remedy is only a bee's dick (tiny amount) behind the Jekyll on the downs and vica versa on the ups - then its a toss up. Does either bike suck in either aspect - especially - will the Jekyll suck on a trail ride?

  7. #7
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    Remedy is one of the top trail bikes out there. Total blast on everything, both up and down. It won bike of the year from pinkbike, over the Jekyll, in 2017. I don't think either bike has changed much since then.

    Unfortunately, I've never ridden a Jekyll, so I can't directly compare. It was never really an option for me because the bottle location sucks and almost requires a Camelback. I frequently do short rides after work where I prefer using a bottle. Also, the frame design is kinda fugly. If you can [edit] get over [/edit] those 2 things, it seems like a pretty good bike.

    I don't really agree with Ninjichor on sizing, but maybe he's ridden both.
    Last edited by iliveonnitro; 1 Day Ago at 09:30 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jawry View Post
    G'day Mate,

    Thanks for the reply.

    Interested in your S/M vs L/XL comment - care to expand (im a medium btw).

    STA - i'm no geo snob - but i thought the 18/19 Jekyll have a relatively steep HTA at around the 74.5 degree mark (don't quote me). That angle, and steep generally, tends to be the trend as an 'aid to climbing and body position over cranks' (again, don't quote me).

    I guess im wanting a bike that i can do a 2 - 3 'trail / all mountain' ride on (whatever the hell that definition means) - but really comes alive when the trail turns downhill and most of the ups are in the back of a shuttle truck.

    If the Remedy is only a bee's dick (tiny amount) behind the Jekyll on the downs and vica versa on the ups - then its a toss up. Does either bike suck in either aspect - especially - will the Jekyll suck on a trail ride?
    Sizing matters cause the bike grows in length as you go up in size:
    - 1" in front of the BB
    - 2" on seat tube
    - and a little on standover, head tube (stack height)

    I mentioned weight bias on the bike. This affects many things, notably:
    - cornering
    - suspension response
    - balance when airborne

    By pushing the front wheel away, your bodyweight gets distributed from the front wheel to the rear. Too far, and the front starts to risk washing out, hence why the Jekyll in L and XL can be a bit sketchy, considering the short CS already pushing the balance towards the rear. The Remedy has longer CS, so the front wheel can get much further away before the front starts to feel too light.

    It's all a balancing game. If there's a bunch of weight up front, the rider will compensate by getting weight back. XC bikes tend to have a lot of weight up front, in order to feel balanced while in the saddle and having hips back when out of the saddle. Downsides are that its front can dive on jumps and drops, and cornering at high speed out of the saddle requires certain technique, but generally all of them deal with moving weight back which matches many peoples' defensive/panic techniques.

    I find it to be a relief to have fewer things to compensate for and fewer compromises altogether. I learned that FS saps power no matter if it's 100mm of travel or 160mm, arguably being similar if you have tuning setup well, and it being the component selection that affect human motor efficiency. There's the question: do you tune suspension for when you're seated and having hips back, cruising XC/trail style, or do you tune it for being out of the saddle? It's a compromise in which you choose to set the sweet spot for susp...

    I used to be the type that lets the makers decide for me, following their recommendations, and just adapting. I've done this for many years, merely shopping based on feel, looking to buy only if a new product was without a doubt better than my current bike. I had built up a stable, which tended to have a few favorites, and in trying to figure out why, I discovered through "AM hardtails", like the Niner ROS9, that geo mattered a crap ton in terms of capability, way more than all the bling I was paying for to make things take less effort, so I can retain energy to compensate for the bike.

    My riding style got revolutionized once I tried to push the balance closer to perfection through geo, suspension setup, tire setup, to be more of a game to do something with the least amount of conscious effort, like turning, going over bumps, jumping, etc. I got tons more comfortable doing things I avoided, like blind drops and jumps in which I couldn't see the landing from the roll-in. I was able to go with heavier reliable and affordable parts, since I was spending far less effort man-handling the bike that it felt like the challenge was too little. It's as if all the dials and the pressure I ran in my tire all started to have much more meaning, now that I got out of the bikes way and let it do its own thing for the most part.

    I ride custom geo now, built upon all this knowledge, compromising on suspension kinematics and production-level quality in terms of alignment, tolerances/clearance, and finishing. The industry's sizing scheme is just F'd up, no doubt. This is not opinion, but fact I can write essays about. I believe they can shrink it down to 1 size and have adjustability at the head tube and seat tube, to keep a rider properly centered. Then there's the issue of having the suspension tuned according to rider CoG height, considering a taller person needs far more anti-squat than a shorter person, considering the rearward weight shift of a tall person's mass is far greater in force (same fulcrum point, by the moment/leverage arm is longer). I had to go custom geo, in order to further minimize the difference between seated and standing position for least compromise in setup, as no one makes geo like this; Pole and Geometron have started to move in that direction. In order to get the STA steeper, the bike simply has to get much longer; way too long for mainstream brands to consider, cause bikes stop fitting on racks, and athletes who train on road bikes transfer a lower % of their fitness over, due to specificity (unless they train solely out of the saddle, or on time trial bikes with steep STA).

    Anyways, I disqualified the S and M Remedy, and the L and XL Jekyll on grounds of poor fore-aft balance, based on the CS length and WB length. Basic multiple choice elimination, based on the above. The further in depth I go, the more likely I eliminate both, and have to consider being more lenient with my choices, accepting more compromise.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    Sizing matters cause the bike grows in length as you go up in size:
    - 1" in front of the BB
    - 2" on seat tube
    - and a little on standover, head tube (stack height)

    I mentioned weight bias on the bike. This affects many things, notably:
    - cornering
    - suspension response
    - balance when airborne

    By pushing the front wheel away, your bodyweight gets distributed from the front wheel to the rear. Too far, and the front starts to risk washing out, hence why the Jekyll in L and XL can be a bit sketchy, considering the short CS already pushing the balance towards the rear. The Remedy has longer CS, so the front wheel can get much further away before the front starts to feel too light.

    It's all a balancing game. If there's a bunch of weight up front, the rider will compensate by getting weight back. XC bikes tend to have a lot of weight up front, in order to feel balanced while in the saddle and having hips back when out of the saddle. Downsides are that its front can dive on jumps and drops, and cornering at high speed out of the saddle requires certain technique, but generally all of them deal with moving weight back which matches many peoples' defensive/panic techniques.

    I find it to be a relief to have fewer things to compensate for and fewer compromises altogether. I learned that FS saps power no matter if it's 100mm of travel or 160mm, arguably being similar if you have tuning setup well, and it being the component selection that affect human motor efficiency. There's the question: do you tune suspension for when you're seated and having hips back, cruising XC/trail style, or do you tune it for being out of the saddle? It's a compromise in which you choose to set the sweet spot for susp...

    I used to be the type that lets the makers decide for me, following their recommendations, and just adapting. I've done this for many years, merely shopping based on feel, looking to buy only if a new product was without a doubt better than my current bike. I had built up a stable, which tended to have a few favorites, and in trying to figure out why, I discovered through "AM hardtails", like the Niner ROS9, that geo mattered a crap ton in terms of capability, way more than all the bling I was paying for to make things take less effort, so I can retain energy to compensate for the bike.

    My riding style got revolutionized once I tried to push the balance closer to perfection through geo, suspension setup, tire setup, to be more of a game to do something with the least amount of conscious effort, like turning, going over bumps, jumping, etc. I got tons more comfortable doing things I avoided, like blind drops and jumps in which I couldn't see the landing from the roll-in. I was able to go with heavier reliable and affordable parts, since I was spending far less effort man-handling the bike that it felt like the challenge was too little. It's as if all the dials and the pressure I ran in my tire all started to have much more meaning, now that I got out of the bikes way and let it do its own thing for the most part.

    I ride custom geo now, built upon all this knowledge, compromising on suspension kinematics and production-level quality in terms of alignment, tolerances/clearance, and finishing. The industry's sizing scheme is just F'd up, no doubt. This is not opinion, but fact I can write essays about. I believe they can shrink it down to 1 size and have adjustability at the head tube and seat tube, to keep a rider properly centered. Then there's the issue of having the suspension tuned according to rider CoG height, considering a taller person needs far more anti-squat than a shorter person, considering the rearward weight shift of a tall person's mass is far greater in force (same fulcrum point, by the moment/leverage arm is longer). I had to go custom geo, in order to further minimize the difference between seated and standing position for least compromise in setup, as no one makes geo like this; Pole and Geometron have started to move in that direction. In order to get the STA steeper, the bike simply has to get much longer; way too long for mainstream brands to consider, cause bikes stop fitting on racks, and athletes who train on road bikes transfer a lower % of their fitness over, due to specificity (unless they train solely out of the saddle, or on time trial bikes with steep STA).

    Anyways, I disqualified the S and M Remedy, and the L and XL Jekyll on grounds of poor fore-aft balance, based on the CS length and WB length. Basic multiple choice elimination, based on the above. The further in depth I go, the more likely I eliminate both, and have to consider being more lenient with my choices, accepting more compromise.
    Have you ridden the bikes, or are you just making this judgement based on the geo chart?
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  10. #10
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    Post #2: "I got time on a Jekyll in M".

    Clarification: I own a Jekyll 2 27.5 (2018), and have tinkered with it enough to get a good understanding of it.

    I did make judgement based on the geo chart.

    Good judgement is the result of experience. Experience is the result of bad judgement (not necessarily your own). Judgement is different from speculation, as it is based off of conclusive knowledge.

    If you want to challenge my judging standards, and you have a Remedy in size S or M, feel free to test me. I am confident that I can predict how you have compensated for the Remedy's geo shortcomings.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjichor View Post
    If you want to challenge my judging standards, and you have a Remedy in size S or M, feel free to test me. I am confident that I can predict how you have compensated for the Remedy's geo shortcomings.
    Weird flex.

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