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  1. #1
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    Trail (130/140) vs AM (150/160) for one front range bike

    Hi all, (TLDR at bottom)

    I've poured over every thread on this subject on every bike outlet/site for about 2 months now, ahead of my upcoming 4-bike demo. I'll be trying out the Patrol, Scout, HD4, and Mojo3. I'm pretty firmly set on these brands and models, it's just the inch of travel and small geo differences hanging me up. I'm horribly indecisive, so while I wait for my demo day, maybe you all could help me prepare/guide my thinking. I feel like a 6" is the quiver killer for me, but I'm scared of overbiking.

    I'm 5'11" 180. Co. Springs/Front Range. I work a basic job in public lands, so I have a lot of free time to drive to trails/trail systems. Ride about 4days/wk.

    Strengths: XC, techy climbing, flow

    Things I need to work on: descending, air, speed

    As for what I enjoy, probably 65% down/35% up.

    I LOVE cleaning a good climb, and I enjoy climbs/flats for their own merit, not just as a route to the down. For that reason, I'm really eager to see how I can handle the Ibis bikes. Everyone who touches one seems to remark on their climbing prowess, for their size.

    Regarding downhill...I do have a broken collarbone from a fall I took on a hike last year, so I would definitely appreciate something that is confidence inspiring (which is all I hear people say about the Patrol, for example). I won't be riding pro lines at parks for a few years, I'm sure, until my skills develop, but I can handle some black descents (Rode Mt. Lemmon in AZ for many years) and I'd like to not feel like I did going down on an XC (underbiked).

    Of course, I wouldn't want to be so horribly overbiked that I have to sell myself on it everytime I'm on flat or climbs....that's kind of the reason I'm looking at these two rather unique brands. Both have the geometry numbers I'm interested in, and they're cool companies pushing things in a direction I like. Between dwlink and SBG, they both seem to be striking a good balance.

    TLDR

    I guess my concern is this... I feel like I'm not a good enough rider to need a 6" (I want to improve!), but I'm worried I'll feel that 5" geo and size isn't enough for some trails I'll ride.

    6: confidence, travel if you need it; possibly floppy/sluggish at lower speed
    5: poppier, lively; no extra travel if things get hairy

    Welcoming any advice/pushes in either direction.

  2. #2
    WillWorkForTrail
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    I think you will find the demo important. Some bikes FEEL like they have a lot more travel than they do, lending confidence at speeds you wouldn't think of on bikes with similar travel. The new Trance 29, while not a bike in consideration, is what I would consider a good example of this. You may find something ideal among the bikes you're looking at when you demo them, the shorter travel biking feeling more confident, which also means you can get the more playful bike plus the confidence for some speed. I know that doesn't really help push you one way or the other, but it gives you something to think about when you DO get to your demo.

  3. #3
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    That depends on if you are using the clock as a measuring stick of how your ride was. Like check and upload to strava right after a ride or like to race. Also depends on which "time" is more important. Fun time or lap time. If you are a inspiring enduro racer buy the biggest bike you can see yourself pedaling around and go and hit the DH sections as hard as you can. If you are not racing and just out for fun get yourself a 130 or 140 travel bike that is nice and playful and have a blast. I have ridden every trail in the springs area on everything from a 120mm forked single speed steel hardtail to a 170mm enduro monster truck bike. The only difference is that which sections I am faster in and which group of guys I was hanging out with at the time. Trails like Jacks and all the stuff in the canyon does not really need much travel at all, same with palmer park and Ute valley. Monument area likes travel because it is a bit more raw but also a bit slower so not really a requirement. If I was picking a bike as just a fun bike to go ride and maybe throw a little battle your friends on a ride bike I would pick a bike that helped me with my weaknesses. if that makes any sense. So like for me, I would get a down country (Sniper, epic evo, sb 100) bike and put some beefy tires on it. Because I charge the steeps and the rock gardens hard no matter what bike I am on ( riding style has been labeled as "wreckless abandon") but I tend to run out of gas on rides and would rather have a burrito and beer instead of a protein shake and a kale salad. So I need something that makes up for my weakness of not training as much or lack of fitness. Instead since I race and ride parks quite a bit I slog a big travel heavy tire bike around in order to just race a clock. So long story short. If you are not racing get the most fun feeling bike you can get that helps raise overall level up and plays to your weakness.

  4. #4
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    Get a bike that will improve your weakness, not reinforce your strength.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  5. #5
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    I recently switched from a Santa Cruz 5010 ( 130mm travel) to a Turner RFX( (170f/160r) and I love it.
    The Turner is probably 4 pounds heavier but I do all the same rides I did on the Santa Cruz, but now just love the DH's more. I do like climbing and it seems like just about every one of my rides average about 3k in vertical. But in reality, I realized I like descending better, so that's why I bought the Turner. Maybe I gave up a little on climbing ability, but gained a whole lot on descending.

    In the past I've raced everything from DH to XC to road.
    EXODUX Jeff

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cotharyus View Post
    I think you will find the demo important. Some bikes FEEL like they have a lot more travel than they do, lending confidence at speeds you wouldn't think of on bikes with similar travel. The new Trance 29, while not a bike in consideration, is what I would consider a good example of this. You may find something ideal among the bikes you're looking at when you demo them, the shorter travel biking feeling more confident, which also means you can get the more playful bike plus the confidence for some speed. I know that doesn't really help push you one way or the other, but it gives you something to think about when you DO get to your demo.
    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    That depends on if you are using the clock as a measuring stick of how your ride was. Like check and upload to strava right after a ride or like to race. Also depends on which "time" is more important. Fun time or lap time. If you are a inspiring enduro racer buy the biggest bike you can see yourself pedaling around and go and hit the DH sections as hard as you can. If you are not racing and just out for fun get yourself a 130 or 140 travel bike that is nice and playful and have a blast. I have ridden every trail in the springs area on everything from a 120mm forked single speed steel hardtail to a 170mm enduro monster truck bike. The only difference is that which sections I am faster in and which group of guys I was hanging out with at the time. Trails like Jacks and all the stuff in the canyon does not really need much travel at all, same with palmer park and Ute valley. Monument area likes travel because it is a bit more raw but also a bit slower so not really a requirement. If I was picking a bike as just a fun bike to go ride and maybe throw a little battle your friends on a ride bike I would pick a bike that helped me with my weaknesses. if that makes any sense. So like for me, I would get a down country (Sniper, epic evo, sb 100) bike and put some beefy tires on it. Because I charge the steeps and the rock gardens hard no matter what bike I am on ( riding style has been labeled as "wreckless abandon") but I tend to run out of gas on rides and would rather have a burrito and beer instead of a protein shake and a kale salad. So I need something that makes up for my weakness of not training as much or lack of fitness. Instead since I race and ride parks quite a bit I slog a big travel heavy tire bike around in order to just race a clock. So long story short. If you are not racing get the most fun feeling bike you can get that helps raise overall level up and plays to your weakness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Get a bike that will improve your weakness, not reinforce your strength.
    Is this like meet your mtbr celebrity day? damn! I really appreciate your input guys.

    Funnily enough, I still think about this demo I did of a Giant Trance back at Pachanga in Tucson, as being an example of a bike that just FELT RIGHT, felt like it had more travel than I logically knew it did. And I think you're right, the bike that gives me the biggest smile of the bunch will probably be the one that I get, just because I know that fun factor is more important than whatever category my ride is in.

    As for Redneck and Travis, that is super solid advice I hadn't thought of yet. Having an XC background, I can get my ass up most things and I'm fortunate enough to have free time for the gym if I'm not already riding. I think what I'm chasing is that ability to go MACH CHICKEN down the gnar, so maybe my fitness can compensate on the ups, then the bike can help me out on the downs.

    Pretty dope that the first three on my thread are mtbr celebs; have a good weekend and shred it up dudes.

  7. #7
    Anytime. Anywhere.
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    4 years ago I bought a Knolly Warden that climbed well and descended amazingly, it made me much better at DH. My new Fugitive, while certainly not a XC bike climbs better than any bike I've ever been on AND descends better than the Warden with a little less cush.
    I got some bad ideas in my head.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I recently switched from a Santa Cruz 5010 ( 130mm travel) to a Turner RFX( (170f/160r) and I love it.
    The Turner is probably 4 pounds heavier but I do all the same rides I did on the Santa Cruz, but now just love the DH's more. I do like climbing and it seems like just about every one of my rides average about 3k in vertical. But in reality, I realized I like descending better, so that's why I bought the Turner. Maybe I gave up a little on climbing ability, but gained a whole lot on descending.

    In the past I've raced everything from DH to XC to road.
    Thats really helpful. I feel like that is kinda how im wanting to lean too. the hd4 and patrol, while probably a bit slower, still reportedly climb really well, as it sounds like yours does. im not stravaing or timing, so as long as i can stay on the bike and enjoy the dh more, i might like that.

  9. #9
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    Ibis and transition are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Ibis make bikes that are really really nice when you ride within your envelope. Transition makes bikes that make you unafraid of that double and you don't care that you've had 2 pedal strikes in this rocky climb. Yes that really is opposite ends of the spectrum.


    Your thinking you're not worthy of a 6" bike is a bunch of bullshit. Buy the bike that's appropriate for the riding you want to do. For an expert its academic, but when it's the next step of progression having that bike is a huge deal.


    A new transition scout might be pretty amazing. I want one with a custom tune. But it's not some magic thing.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  10. #10
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    I rode a Pivot Firebird for 7 years and while it was amazing that it climbed well for a 7" bike and bombed the dh, it was overkill for everyday trail riding and on long rides the ups became grueling at the end fighting against 7" of travel.

    I still wanted a bike that was capable but more playful and easier to pedal.
    I started looking at bikes like the Mach 6 and was pretty much sold on it until bikes like the Evil Calling and Mach 5.5 came out.
    I'd be looking at geo and not so much amount of travel. It used to be to get aggressive geo you had to get a long travel ride. That's not the case any more.
    I went with the Calling with 150mm Pike and its an amazingly capable bike that is a blast to ride. Its as capable as my Firebird on 95% of the rides, the only place its not is sustained big hit high speed rock gardens, and even then it does it just not with the composure/plush of 7" of travel. The trade off for climbing and playfulness more than makes up for it.
    Life in every breath

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    Get a bike that will improve your weakness, not reinforce your strength.
    Sage advice.

    A couple years ago I was on an HD3 because I wanted the best climbing long travel bike. Found that climbing wasn't my weakness (in my riding group, that is). Now I'm on a super slack, Horst Link bike. The pedaling efficiency isn't that of the DW-Link from the HD3, but it's waaaay plusher on the downs and the more aggressive geometry is welcome. I don't miss the pedaling efficiency of the HD3 as I'm smiling more now.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  12. #12
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    Or consider a ďtweenerĒ frameset that can perhaps be stretched and modified some for hopefully a good compromise. Some of the trail frames can take a slightly longer travel shock and be paired with a longer fork. Perhaps be willing to sacrifice some weight and playful trail traits for more planted confidence with a front & rear coil conversion, some wider wheels/tires, and so on. Or at least thatís my own soon to be experiment.

    Any way you cut it there will be some compromise; whether you buy one or the other or per the suggestion ...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    Ibis and transition are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Ibis make bikes that are really really nice when you ride within your envelope. Transition makes bikes that make you unafraid of that double and you don't care that you've had 2 pedal strikes in this rocky climb. Yes that really is opposite ends of the spectrum.


    Your thinking you're not worthy of a 6" bike is a bunch of bullshit. Buy the bike that's appropriate for the riding you want to do. For an expert its academic, but when it's the next step of progression having that bike is a huge deal.


    A new transition scout might be pretty amazing. I want one with a custom tune. But it's not some magic thing.
    Thanks for calling me out on that. I'm really planning to work hard on my skills so I don't feel like im falling in the trap of "buying what you really ride, not what you want to ride", since I really do plan to and want to ride aggro stuff. I've been thinking about maybe just beefing up a scout. dunno but thank you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mt.Biker E View Post
    I rode a Pivot Firebird for 7 years and while it was amazing that it climbed well for a 7" bike and bombed the dh, it was overkill for everyday trail riding and on long rides the ups became grueling at the end fighting against 7" of travel.

    I still wanted a bike that was capable but more playful and easier to pedal.
    I started looking at bikes like the Mach 6 and was pretty much sold on it until bikes like the Evil Calling and Mach 5.5 came out.
    I'd be looking at geo and not so much amount of travel. It used to be to get aggressive geo you had to get a long travel ride. That's not the case any more.
    I went with the Calling with 150mm Pike and its an amazingly capable bike that is a blast to ride. Its as capable as my Firebird on 95% of the rides, the only place its not is sustained big hit high speed rock gardens, and even then it does it just not with the composure/plush of 7" of travel. The trade off for climbing and playfulness more than makes up for it.
    See and that's the thing. I'm young and capable enough that I don't need a tank, but I also don't want to feel undergunned. I'm glad your evil worked out dude. they are SICK bikes.

    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    Sage advice.

    A couple years ago I was on an HD3 because I wanted the best climbing long travel bike. Found that climbing wasn't my weakness (in my riding group, that is). Now I'm on a super slack, Horst Link bike. The pedaling efficiency isn't that of the DW-Link from the HD3, but it's waaaay plusher on the downs and the more aggressive geometry is welcome. I don't miss the pedaling efficiency of the HD3 as I'm smiling more now.

    Yeah sounds like yours is definitely a case of the bike improving your weaknesses since youre already a strong climber. I feel like thats kinda my situation too.
    Last edited by AndSoItIs; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:33 PM.

  14. #14
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    I decided to buy more bike than I needed because you can deal with it on the ups for the fun on the way down. I'm 50, so what if I need to stop a couple times on the way up for the security, safety and grins on the way down.

    The crappy part is I found out the bike kicks ass on the way up too so now I have to deal with an awesome bike all around and not what I was looking for

  15. #15
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    some good advise in here. I went the other way
    Had a Trek Slash 160/150, Thing was badass on the DH did ok on the climbs but I was being dropped by my 11 year old on longer climbs when he was riding his XC bike.

    I ended up selling it for a Fuel thats 140/130 and I can run 29er or 27.5+ on. IT fits my riding needs and trails I ride perfectly though..
    Too Many .

  16. #16
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    My 160f/150r bike climbs a lot like my oldschool 100mm front and rear xc bike. Im really not exaggerating. I climb about the same speed (not fast).

    Tires play a HUGE role. Long travel on a frame that pedals well, with fast tires, is a great all day bike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    My 160f/150r bike climbs a lot like my oldschool 100mm front and rear xc bike. Im really not exaggerating. I climb about the same speed (not fast).

    Tires play a HUGE role. Long travel on a frame that pedals well, with fast tires, is a great all day bike.
    That's the goal precisely...now to figure out which of the two it is! I'm guessing you ride a pivot?

  18. #18
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    I ride an orbea. The name is more about single pivot suspensions than pivot the brand. Not a huge pivot fan, honestly.

  19. #19
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    AndSoItIs, I really can't add anything to the already great advice given by many others. Not that my advice would be worth anything anyway. It's hard not to overthink a bike purchase. With my last one, I was too indecisive and wasted too much time. I had spreadsheets, drawings, reports, reviews... I did enough research that I should have been able to design my own bike from scratch. In the end, what worked for me... demoing. It got me away from looking at specific geometry numbers, and I focused on what felt right under me. As it turned out for me, differences in reach had the most impact, and I wound up with a bike that is long overall but with a short chain stay (something that didn't look right to me using the numbers). As for travel, ignored the numbers there too and just focused on what felt right. I wound up with a 130mm bike that feels like 150's I tried, and made my older 140mm feel like 110mm.
    You didn't quit riding because you're old, you're old because you quit riding.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredcook View Post
    AndSoItIs, I really can't add anything to the already great advice given by many others. Not that my advice would be worth anything anyway. It's hard not to overthink a bike purchase. With my last one, I was too indecisive and wasted too much time. I had spreadsheets, drawings, reports, reviews... I did enough research that I should have been able to design my own bike from scratch. In the end, what worked for me... demoing. It got me away from looking at specific geometry numbers, and I focused on what felt right under me. As it turned out for me, differences in reach had the most impact, and I wound up with a bike that is long overall but with a short chain stay (something that didn't look right to me using the numbers). As for travel, ignored the numbers there too and just focused on what felt right. I wound up with a 130mm bike that feels like 150's I tried, and made my older 140mm feel like 110mm.
    Ah, my kinda guy. Im so paralyzed by geo numbers i cant wait to just actually jump on a bike too! I think thatll ultimately be what it comes down to, as it was for you. (Much to the chagrin of my overthinking monkey mind that wants to know it all in advance!) Always loved your signature.

  21. #21
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    Ah, yeah, sorry that I'm ignoring your brand list, but if you're in the Front Range, then I'd definitely check out Guerrilla Gravity. They're hand-built in Denver and the Shred Dogg trail bike can be amped up into the full enduro Megatrail with a simple shock swap and fork extension. Two bikes in one frameset. Very high quality bikes that can certainly take your riding to the next level.

    https://ridegg.com/

    I can vouch that that bike works extremely well, set up in either trail or enduro mode.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  22. #22
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    Having gone from a 160/150mm travel bike to a 150/130mm bike that is nearly identical except for a 1 degree steeper HTA (Knolly Warden to Knolly Endorphin), I would definitely recommend demoing both "styles" of bike to figure out what suits you best. For a 130mm bike the Endorphin is very capable (especially with a coil shock on the back) and I don't feel like I've given up much from the longer travel Warden except for in the gnarliest of trails, and what I've gained in terms of climbing and playfulness makes up for that, for me.

    If you're a strong climber and want to improve your descending then perhaps the longer travel option is the way to go, especially one that has a good pedalling platform (DW link, for example). I agree with what fredcook suggests too, the geometry can be as important as the travel in determining how "capable" a bike feels.

  23. #23
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    Just out of curiosity, why not demo a Ripmo if your looking at the Mojo?
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    Ah, yeah, sorry that I'm ignoring your brand list, but if you're in the Front Range, then I'd definitely check out Guerrilla Gravity. They're hand-built in Denver and the Shred Dogg trail bike can be amped up into the full enduro Megatrail with a simple shock swap and fork extension. Two bikes in one frameset. Very high quality bikes that can certainly take your riding to the next level.

    https://ridegg.com/

    I can vouch that that bike works extremely well, set up in either trail or enduro mode.
    You've found me out dude. GG is secret option number 3. I actually passed their shop for work the other day and took a picture. I'm sooo impressed by the low weight and direct pricing.

    That said, I've never had a bike with some type of adjustable geometry. Can you give me the quick and dirty on it? How different does it feel? Why do you like it? Is it quick to change?

    I'd love the idea of supporting another smaller brand, but a local one too!

    Quote Originally Posted by David R View Post
    Having gone from a 160/150mm travel bike to a 150/130mm bike that is nearly identical except for a 1 degree steeper HTA (Knolly Warden to Knolly Endorphin), I would definitely recommend demoing both "styles" of bike to figure out what suits you best. For a 130mm bike the Endorphin is very capable (especially with a coil shock on the back) and I don't feel like I've given up much from the longer travel Warden except for in the gnarliest of trails, and what I've gained in terms of climbing and playfulness makes up for that, for me.

    If you're a strong climber and want to improve your descending then perhaps the longer travel option is the way to go, especially one that has a good pedalling platform (DW link, for example). I agree with what fredcook suggests too, the geometry can be as important as the travel in determining how "capable" a bike feels.
    I feel ya on that. I know scott was callin me on my shit but what if a capable 130/140 really is enough for me? AGH. I'm really going to take my time and be careful to take notes on how the geos make me feel.

    Quote Originally Posted by scatterbrained View Post
    Just out of curiosity, why not demo a Ripmo if your looking at the Mojo?
    Part of it is curiosity; I was on a hardtail 29er (Trek XCaliber 8) previously, so I'm curious what 27.5 feels like and enticed by the agility they boast. That said, I did love the 29er. It was just a little sluggish at times.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndSoItIs View Post
    You've found me out dude. GG is secret option number 3. I actually passed their shop for work the other day and took a picture. I'm sooo impressed by the low weight and direct pricing.

    That said, I've never had a bike with some type of adjustable geometry. Can you give me the quick and dirty on it? How different does it feel? Why do you like it? Is it quick to change?
    The adjustable geometry does make quite a difference. It feels more "sporty" in the trail mode and more "planted" in the gravity mode. I prefer the trail mode because there's less pedal strikes and it's easier to pop off features.

    The mode change is horrendously difficult. You unbolt the rear shock mount, slide it up or down in its track, and bolt it back in. The whole process can take as little as 30 seconds or up to 10 minutes if you're really stinking drunk. At my typical moderate drunk, it takes me about 45 seconds. It's no problem switching modes while out on the trail.

    The GG guys are super-cool. I'd highly recommend stopping in at their shop to take a bike out for a spin. I rode one at a demo event near me and it was so much more fun than the other bikes I tried (Transition Patrol, Scout, Norco Sight, and another I can't remember) that I ordered one on the spot. A year and a half and I'm still amazed with my Shred Dogg/Megatrail.

    Oh, one more tip. I have a DVO Topaz on my bike and I can add or remove a spacer inside to change between Shred Dogg and Megatrail without buying another shock. Also, I can easily change the travel on my MRP Ribbon fork. With MRP and GG, you can have a very ColoRADo bike.

    Lots of information here: https://forums.mtbr.com/guerrilla-gravity/
    Last edited by Curveball; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:34 PM.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  26. #26
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    If you're in Colorado you have access to some serious terrain where you might want the additional travel, but have fun with the demos!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curveball View Post
    The mode change is horrendously difficult.... you can have a very ColoRADo bike.

    Lots of information here: https://forums.mtbr.com/guerrilla-gravity/
    You had me goin' for a second there! That's a hell of an endorsement all around and I'm super down with supporting the state. Heard very good stuff about that Topaz too.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by stonant View Post
    If you're in Colorado you have access to some serious terrain where you might want the additional travel, but have fun with the demos!
    Yeah man will do! Planning on driving a bunch to really ride everything so it might come in handy

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndSoItIs View Post
    I feel ya on that. I know scott was callin me on my shit but what if a capable 130/140 really is enough for me? AGH. I'm really going to take my time and be careful to take notes on how the geos make me feel.
    I wasn't calling you out on any shit. If you're progressing then your best option is different than if you've peaked and are just assing around in the woods. Everything you're looking at is pretty great. Probably more important that you're psyched on your decision than what you decide.
    "Things that are complex are not useful, Things that are useful are simple."
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  30. #30
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    From you explanation of enjoyment factors for me the decision is simple. Go 160mm! They will handle the jandle on the down and wont be much if any worse on the up. Invest enough in a light 160mm bike and it will climb better than a heavier 140mm bike.


    I used to owm a 26" mojo. Thats i few years ago now. So not a fair comparison. But i didnt get on with the dw link. i found it harsh by comparison to 4 bar and santacruz vpp.


    I havent ridden the latest mojos so can't comment there. I have ridden the patrol and it is indeed a sweet bike. It pedals plenty well.


    I recently upgraded from 140-160mm vpp to 165/180mm 4bar new geo. Man i'm in heaven. The bike pedals like a machine decends like a mini rig and isn't boring on the flats. The only slight disavantage i can find is super steep climbs it getts a bit light at the front end.


    Don't bother with 140. Go 160. Or you will forever wonder if thats what you should have done.

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    Id get a GG and not have to choose. Their modular way of build bikes you can get different shocks,rockers and airsprings and have the travel you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    I wasn't calling you out on any shit. If you're progressing then your best option is different than if you've peaked and are just assing around in the woods. Everything you're looking at is pretty great. Probably more important that you're psyched on your decision than what you decide.
    I didn't mean it in a bad way. I was disparaging myself with the first thought so I appreciated you saying get what you need to progress. But i agree, i think if im stoked with whichever i choose, ill ride it like hell and be happy with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    From you explanation of enjoyment factors for me the decision is simple. Go 160mm! They will handle the jandle on the down and wont be much if any worse on the up. Invest enough in a light 160mm bike and it will climb better than a heavier 140mm bike.


    I used to owm a 26" mojo. Thats i few years ago now. So not a fair comparison. But i didnt get on with the dw link. i found it harsh by comparison to 4 bar and santacruz vpp.


    I havent ridden the latest mojos so can't comment there. I have ridden the patrol and it is indeed a sweet bike. It pedals plenty well.


    I recently upgraded from 140-160mm vpp to 165/180mm 4bar new geo. Man i'm in heaven. The bike pedals like a machine decends like a mini rig and isn't boring on the flats. The only slight disavantage i can find is super steep climbs it getts a bit light at the front end.


    Don't bother with 140. Go 160. Or you will forever wonder if thats what you should have done.
    This is kinda where I'm at. I don't wanna be comin down some sketch and have that itchin me in the back of my mind, especially if i feel OK with accepting that I won't be breaking some XCers KOM on the way up. Glad to hear you're stoked on your ride!


    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    Id get a GG and not have to choose. Their modular way of build bikes you can get different shocks,rockers and airsprings and have the travel you want.
    Yeah I casually spent most of the workday on their website and emailing them lol.

  33. #33
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    there is always the option of 140mm of push 11-6 is worth more than 160mm of some random fox or rockshox air shock. So there is that option to look at as well. Tires, suspension and brakes and geo play a much larger roll than how many inches of travel you have. Not the size of the boat it the motion in the......oh wait wrong travel, but you get the point.

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    I had a similar dilemma choosing between RM Instinct (140/140) and Orbea Rallon (160/150). Demoed both on Outerbike, both felt exceptionally good, but at the end decided to go for Rallon - couldn't really tell a difference between the bikes while climbing the same trails, so went for bigger travel. I haven't played with RM Ride-9 adjustments system though, that could have changed perception somewhat.

    My advice - demo the contenders and decide based on that..

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    there is always the option of 140mm of push 11-6 is worth more than 160mm of some random fox or rockshox air shock. So there is that option to look at as well. Tires, suspension and brakes and geo play a much larger roll than how many inches of travel you have. Not the size of the boat it the motion in the......oh wait wrong travel, but you get the point.
    LOL yeah i hear you. kinda like how they say snow tires and chains can make up for not having fourby. but i dont wanna start that, thats for another forum!

    Quote Originally Posted by borisotto View Post
    I had a similar dilemma choosing between RM Instinct (140/140) and Orbea Rallon (160/150). Demoed both on Outerbike, both felt exceptionally good, but at the end decided to go for Rallon - couldn't really tell a difference between the bikes while climbing the same trails, so went for bigger travel. I haven't played with RM Ride-9 adjustments system though, that could have changed perception somewhat.

    My advice - demo the contenders and decide based on that..
    Oh nice which outerbike? theres one in butte this year which is very near me! the orbeas look so sweet dude

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    there is always the option of 140mm of push 11-6 is worth more than 160mm of some random fox or rockshox air shock. So there is that option to look at as well. Tires, suspension and brakes and geo play a much larger roll than how many inches of travel you have. Not the size of the boat it the motion in the......oh wait wrong travel, but you get the point.
    This is true my 140/140 bike with avy coil front and rear handles things better than many 160mm bikes. Cant beat custom tuned.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerberus75 View Post
    This is true my 140/140 bike with avy coil front and rear handles things better than many 160mm bikes. Cant beat custom tuned.
    Soon I will be testing the 165mm bike (balance) with a 11-6. Should be a scary time.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    Soon I will be testing the 165mm bike (balance) with a 11-6. Should be a scary time.
    You'll be in 180-200mm territory. Hang on lol.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    there is always the option of 140mm of push 11-6 is worth more than 160mm of some random fox or rockshox air shock. So there is that option to look at as well. Tires, suspension and brakes and geo play a much larger roll than how many inches of travel you have. Not the size of the boat it the motion in the......oh wait wrong travel, but you get the point.

    Exactly where Iím going except taking a 140/130 and also stretching it 15 - 20mm with ACS-3 and 11.6 setup ... seemed logical

    though with an 11.6 your options can be limited since Push wonít deviate on anything custom or non-standard at all other than their dedicated frame setups. In some cases you can fudge it on your own, but they wonít approve or support it in any way. Can be a little frustrating, but thatís their philosophy for better or worse.

    .

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndSoItIs View Post
    Hi all, (TLDR at bottom)

    I've poured over every thread on this subject on every bike outlet/site for about 2 months now, ahead of my upcoming 4-bike demo. I'll be trying out the Patrol, Scout, HD4, and Mojo3. I'm pretty firmly set on these brands and models, it's just the inch of travel and small geo differences hanging me up. I'm horribly indecisive, so while I wait for my demo day, maybe you all could help me prepare/guide my thinking. I feel like a 6" is the quiver killer for me, but I'm scared of overbiking.

    I'm 5'11" 180. Co. Springs/Front Range. I work a basic job in public lands, so I have a lot of free time to drive to trails/trail systems. Ride about 4days/wk.

    Strengths: XC, techy climbing, flow

    Things I need to work on: descending, air, speed

    As for what I enjoy, probably 65% down/35% up.

    I LOVE cleaning a good climb, and I enjoy climbs/flats for their own merit, not just as a route to the down. For that reason, I'm really eager to see how I can handle the Ibis bikes. Everyone who touches one seems to remark on their climbing prowess, for their size.

    Regarding downhill...I do have a broken collarbone from a fall I took on a hike last year, so I would definitely appreciate something that is confidence inspiring (which is all I hear people say about the Patrol, for example). I won't be riding pro lines at parks for a few years, I'm sure, until my skills develop, but I can handle some black descents (Rode Mt. Lemmon in AZ for many years) and I'd like to not feel like I did going down on an XC (underbiked).

    Of course, I wouldn't want to be so horribly overbiked that I have to sell myself on it everytime I'm on flat or climbs....that's kind of the reason I'm looking at these two rather unique brands. Both have the geometry numbers I'm interested in, and they're cool companies pushing things in a direction I like. Between dwlink and SBG, they both seem to be striking a good balance.

    TLDR

    I guess my concern is this... I feel like I'm not a good enough rider to need a 6" (I want to improve!), but I'm worried I'll feel that 5" geo and size isn't enough for some trails I'll ride.

    6: confidence, travel if you need it; possibly floppy/sluggish at lower speed
    5: poppier, lively; no extra travel if things get hairy

    Welcoming any advice/pushes in either direction.
    You already answered yourself and you are going in the right direction. Just demo the bikes you are interested into, until then every post here will confuse you even more because nobody cannot decide instead of you - if you like 29er more than 27 or if L is more comfortable than M etc. I suggest you close and stop reading all this forum blablabla until you demo the bikes. Post back when u demo them and when you decide :-)
    You know what they say - 1 ride tells more than 1000 posts :-)

  41. #41
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    I have a '17 Trek Fuel 130/130 (140 air shaft on order). My solution to the need/want for a longer travel bike is the N+1 equation.

    That Transition Patrol is infiltrating my dreams. Saving up the coin to pick up a longer travel bike this summer.

    As to your conundrum, the Fuel is a great climber and fairly capable on the descents, but if I had to pick one all around bike, it would be a 150/160mm travel bike.
    Trek Fuel EX 9.8
    Trek Checkpoint SL 6

  42. #42
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    In my group of riding buddies we have the following bikes

    Rocky mountain slayer (me) 165-180
    Divinci spartan 165-170
    Evil Insurgent 150-160
    Trek Remedy 150-160
    Mondraker something 160-160
    Trek slash 29' 150-160
    Specialized camber 29" 140-160
    Santacruz Nomad 160-160 push shock
    transition patrol 155-160 push shock
    Santa cruz bronson 150-160
    Banshe spitfire 140-160
    Santacruz 5010 130-150
    Intenser tracer 160-160


    Out of the group my Slayer is the plushest and owns the steeeep tech the best. Well to be fair the spartan owns it too. I can see a noticable speed change from from the the 130-140mm boys on the super tech. They can no longer keep up or are not prepared to hit the stuff/lines i can hit.


    The 130/140 bikes feel the snappiest on the trail and are fun in the easy/mid range groomed mtb trail. I'll give the 5010 the nod for the best pedler, The trek slash for best technical climber.


    Lightest bike is the intesne tracer (its a full fruit build, carbon everything), Second equal is my slayer/ and the 5010.

    No one appears to be disadvantaged over longer rides with longer travel bikes. The 130-140mm guys dont pull ahead on long distance stuff or easy stuff. It comes down to fitness not bike.


    Guys on 150-160mm bikes can pretty much handle everything thrown at them. 150mm bike guys dont start flagging back until it gets real stupid into dh track territory.


    On a general intemediate trail that has some chunk and some easy all bikes ride sweetly and no one type of bike owns the trail. Its only when you get to the exteme ends of easy or hard do certain bikes shine through.

    What I did was buy a bike that rides best over the terrian i like to ride the most. That is natural super tech, steep chucky terrain, but i still want to pedal all day!. For me that was the biggest chunkiest best peddalling monster i could find.


    I recomend the same thing for you. Decide the terrain that you enjoy the most. Select the bike accordingly and you will be grinning!


    I'm just going to put this here.... if you buy a 160mm bike you will immediately be riding like this!!!!.... hehehehehehe.


  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndSoItIs View Post
    Oh nice which outerbike? theres one in butte this year which is very near me! the orbeas look so sweet dude
    Moab fall 2018. Weather wasn't good, but still it was fun. I still have quite a few Moab trails on my list, but most likely will be going there to ride in lower season (if there is one).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbfree View Post
    You already answered yourself and you are going in the right direction. Just demo the bikes you are interested into, until then every post here will confuse you even more because nobody cannot decide instead of you - if you like 29er more than 27 or if L is more comfortable than M etc. I suggest you close and stop reading all this forum blablabla until you demo the bikes. Post back when u demo them and when you decide :-)
    You know what they say - 1 ride tells more than 1000 posts :-)
    I hear ya dude. On the one hand im so stoked this thread took off and got some great advice and discussion, on the other hand im just waiting for the trails to dry a bit bc im chomping at the bit to just demo them already!

    Quote Originally Posted by mlx john View Post
    I have a '17 Trek Fuel 130/130 (140 air shaft on order). My solution to the need/want for a longer travel bike is the N+1 equation.

    That Transition Patrol is infiltrating my dreams. Saving up the coin to pick up a longer travel bike this summer.

    As to your conundrum, the Fuel is a great climber and fairly capable on the descents, but if I had to pick one all around bike, it would be a 150/160mm travel bike.
    yeah man, patrol has been the stuff of my dreams since i first got into biking. thatll be cool once you have it 140 140..ride on!

    Quote Originally Posted by plummet View Post
    In my group of riding buddies we have the following bikes

    Rocky mountain slayer (me) 165-180
    Divinci spartan 165-170
    Evil Insurgent 150-160
    Trek Remedy 150-160
    Mondraker something 160-160
    Trek slash 29' 150-160
    Specialized camber 29" 140-160
    Santacruz Nomad 160-160 push shock
    transition patrol 155-160 push shock
    Santa cruz bronson 150-160
    Banshe spitfire 140-160
    Santacruz 5010 130-150
    Intenser tracer 160-160


    Out of the group my Slayer is the plushest and owns the steeeep tech the best. Well to be fair the spartan owns it too. I can see a noticable speed change from from the the 130-140mm boys on the super tech. They can no longer keep up or are not prepared to hit the stuff/lines i can hit.


    The 130/140 bikes feel the snappiest on the trail and are fun in the easy/mid range groomed mtb trail. I'll give the 5010 the nod for the best pedler, The trek slash for best technical climber.


    Lightest bike is the intesne tracer (its a full fruit build, carbon everything), Second equal is my slayer/ and the 5010.

    No one appears to be disadvantaged over longer rides with longer travel bikes. The 130-140mm guys dont pull ahead on long distance stuff or easy stuff. It comes down to fitness not bike.


    Guys on 150-160mm bikes can pretty much handle everything thrown at them. 150mm bike guys dont start flagging back until it gets real stupid into dh track territory.


    On a general intemediate trail that has some chunk and some easy all bikes ride sweetly and no one type of bike owns the trail. Its only when you get to the exteme ends of easy or hard do certain bikes shine through.

    What I did was buy a bike that rides best over the terrian i like to ride the most. That is natural super tech, steep chucky terrain, but i still want to pedal all day!. For me that was the biggest chunkiest best peddalling monster i could find.


    I recomend the same thing for you. Decide the terrain that you enjoy the most. Select the bike accordingly and you will be grinning!


    I'm just going to put this here.... if you buy a 160mm bike you will immediately be riding like this!!!!.... hehehehehehe.

    Nice dude, your slayer sounds like a beast and thats quite a riding group! i think youre right in that we're pretty spoiled for even long travel bikes to be capable of all death pedal death marches while still slayin the gnar. and like others have said, i think i want the bike to support me on my weakness (downs) since i feel reasonably ok with my fitness

    Quote Originally Posted by borisotto View Post
    Moab fall 2018. Weather wasn't good, but still it was fun. I still have quite a few Moab trails on my list, but most likely will be going there to ride in lower season (if there is one).
    hell yeah dude, still need to get to moab myself. glad you had a good time still!



    cheers to everyone in the thread im spreadin the rep as fast as itll let me!

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndSoItIs View Post



    Thats quite a riding group! i think youre right in that we're pretty spoiled for even long travel bikes to be capable of all death pedal death marches while still slayin the gnar. and like others have said.

    Heheh, Yep. I didnt realise how loaded my group was unit i started typing up each dudes bike.... And there's still dudes with other bikes that didnt make the grade of being mentioned.

  46. #46
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    Yeah, the GG Megatrail is rated for a 180 fork with 165 mm out back.

    Mine is set up 170 front and 150 back while in trail mode and it climbs extremely well.

    And I'm continually astounded at what it can do going down. I'm happily riding down stuff that I never would have considered before.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  47. #47
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    Iíd check out the Rallon (if you havenít already). 3 buddies in my immediate ride group, and several others from an lbs have recently moved up to these from various other top brands and models (ie RM, Tallboy LT, Rip9, Enduro, Norco Sight etc) and are more than impressed on travel->weight->climbing abilities. They range in height from 5-7í to 6-4! The bigger guy appreciating it the most! Iíd join the bandwagon too but current budget has me on a 5010 which is plenty for me!😎
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMac47 View Post
    Iíd check out the Rallon (if you havenít already). 3 buddies in my immediate ride group, and several others from an lbs have recently moved up to these from various other top brands and models (ie RM, Tallboy LT, Rip9, Enduro, Norco Sight etc) and are more than impressed on travel->weight->climbing abilities. They range in height from 5-7í to 6-4! The bigger guy appreciating it the most! Iíd join the bandwagon too but current budget has me on a 5010 which is plenty for me!😎
    Yeah that was one I had been considering for a while. I'd really like to find a place to squeeze one in just out of curiosity, and bein a largeish dude I'd probably appreciate their sizing

  49. #49
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    I'm riding an intense Spider 275C in the front range (I live on enchanted Forest/Apex). It's 130/130 and about 26lbs. Definitely on the short/light side for really hard charging downhill but still does well as long as I take an active approach and don't try to plow too much. Huge fun. Great on the climbs. If I we're buying a new bike today it would probably be a GG Smash, Yeti SB130 or Ibis Ripmo. I suspect 29x2.6 wheels/tires would be pretty awesome for all the rocks.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndSoItIs View Post
    Yeah that was one I had been considering for a while. I'd really like to find a place to squeeze one in just out of curiosity, and bein a largeish dude I'd probably appreciate their sizing
    My buddy on the XL say his weighs under 27#ís! Ofcourse itís XX1 Eagle, ENVE cockpit and carbon e13 wheels but TRS tough casing tires!
    Wait whuuut, who did he tell you that!?!?....

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndSoItIs View Post
    Yeah that was one I had been considering for a while. I'd really like to find a place to squeeze one in just out of curiosity, and bein a largeish dude I'd probably appreciate their sizing
    In your OP, you stated a height of 5'11" which is the same as me. I'm a bit lighter though.

    A medium GG bike fits me perfectly. Their bikes tend to run larger than other brands. You can also order an extra medium or other custom options.
    Riding Washington State singletrack since 1986

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndSoItIs View Post
    Yeah that was one I had been considering for a while. I'd really like to find a place to squeeze one in just out of curiosity, and bein a largeish dude I'd probably appreciate their sizing
    I'm 6-1'+ (183cm) and L size Rallon was just right. Before Outerbike I spent 2 days renting Transition Sentinel in L size, felt a bit too big for me.

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