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  1. #1
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    Tips for riding tightly spaced drops/steps?

    What’s up guys?

    One of my local trails (Chaparral trail at JMP in Oakland CA, if you happen to be local) has some tightly-spaced steps/drops that I’d like to get better at riding. Basically it’s a got a semi-steep section with a series of 1 to 2 foot drops in quick succession maybe 1-2 bike lengths apart. (Mix of roots, rocks, and railroad tie steps).

    Can anyone share some tips for riding this type of terrain? I can roll it just fine, but when I try to hit it a little faster things get sketchy - I end up landing one drop with my front tire either at or over the lip of the next, which throws off my balance.

    Short of riding it MUCH faster and trying to link up the drops, what would you do to improve your skills on this type of terrain?

    Maybe the answer is that I need to work on my manual skills so I can just dab the rear tire down for a second between drops without letting the front tire drop?

    Thanks in advance!

    ~Alex




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  2. #2
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    If you can't launch over them, you just have to hang off the back, and keep your front end light. Don't let the fork get packed up in a hole and throw you forward. Use your arms and legs to soak up the undulations. Flow like water.

  3. #3
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    I'd have to see it, not sure if I can offer a completely unique opinion or I that I could even ride it faster than you could, but maybe a different perspective.

    Sometimes things are easy to ride slow (in your case), get really difficult to ride medium fast...then get easier again to ride really fast, since it can kind of smooth out the effect of the drops or consecutive bumps.

    I find that chattery / wooped out sections can be like this. Slow you can ride the terrain and react. Medium speed your all over the place. When going all out your skipping over much of it and it's manageable.

  4. #4
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    ^^^ concur.
    Do the math.

  5. #5
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    You need to lean waaaay over the front and make sure to keep your arms and legs totally straight. Also, randomly grab a handful of front brake or close your eyes if it's getting too easy...

    OK, but for real if you can't find anyone local to ask, just stay loose and practice. If possible, break it down into smaller sections. Also, what they said.

  6. #6
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    I have some sections similar to this on my home trails and have tried some different approaches.

    You're going to have to get really good at manuals and trials skills to take repeated drops and stay up on only your back wheel

    For small drops, just riding off the back of the bike without doing full drop technique or a manual can get sketchy quickly too. It leaves you prone to big body weight shifts when the front wheel drops off and the fork compresses while your back tire is still up. Ask me about my endos

    Unless you can get a lot more speed and more susp. travel, I think rolling it might be the fastest way . Ok, "rolling" sounds too passive. Pump that section! Someone showed me this video about riding small drops recently and it was an epiphany for these closely repeated small drops. In summary: drop your seat, stay low and centered on the bike, and pump your front wheel down each small drop. You stay in control better and are more prepared to pump repeated drops than you can ever be to properly jump them

  7. #7
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    Thanks for the tips! That video was really helpful.


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  8. #8
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    Sounds like I'd be trying the manual like you said... Not to say I'd pull it off perfect, but you'd still end up with an unweighted front end through the whole series, which is ideal. Basically you're in 'huck position' through them all.

    Now that won't stop you from landing really funny with your front wheel off and back wheel on one of them... That's just one of those situations that you have to stay loose and trust the bike. No way to make it pretty, just hang on and hope. 🙂

  9. #9
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    I would take it a step further and shift your knees forward a bit while you are low, and slightly push your bike out and down and in front of you.
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  10. #10
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    Yep, look at becoming the manual master
    But if you drop the front over a 2ft drop after a failed manual attempt you will know all about pain..

    Also look for the double up option. Sometimes committing to the launch and clearing a section is best.

    Both techniques are advanced and will involve pain if you stuff up.

    But if you can pull off the manual/launch in the gnar you will be legend!

  11. #11
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    Another vid.-


  12. #12
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    Oh yeah, you can combine the launch and manual in one move too. That's an interesting one. But still sometimes doable.Launch a gap, land manualing off the next drop.

    I don't pull that one off very often. But when I do......yeha!

  13. #13
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    On successions of steps like that, I think manualing the first one is a mistake.

    If you do that, chances are that you'll start the second or third drop being too far backwards, and won't be able to shift anymore weight to the rear if needed, and you'll end up with an OTB. I think it's best to see this as whoops, and stay very centered and low on the bike, and trust tires and suspensions.

    It's also very hard to tell, I would love to see a video of this or ride it!
    French line enthusiast and expat in Denver, ig; lazoup

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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by xavierp View Post
    On successions of steps like that, I think manualing the first one is a mistake.

    If you do that, chances are that you'll start the second or third drop being too far backwards, and won't be able to shift anymore weight to the rear if needed, and you'll end up with an OTB. I think it's best to see this as whoops, and stay very centered and low on the bike, and trust tires and suspensions.

    It's also very hard to tell, I would love to see a video of this or ride it!
    Here’s a video of the Chaparral trail that shows the section I’m referring to (not my video). This particular rider took some of the easier lines around the edges of the trail, but I think it gives you an idea of the terrain. It’s the tightly spaced railroad tie steps/drops that I’m trying to work on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG2PLiox6pU&app=desktop



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  15. #15
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    I’m thinking I need to get low, arms bent, carry a little more speed, and try to “float” over some of those sections absorbing the terrain with my arms/legs/suspension without planting my front tire in any holes...


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  16. #16
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    Weight back, heels dropped down, arms extended but ever so slightly bent and floor it!!

  17. #17
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    A pre jump is an other idea.
    It's hard to tell from the GoPro footage. But my gut says hit it fast and absorb with your arms and legs.

  18. #18
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    I don't know that I can help, but this is a good topic for me to learn on.
    From the vid I take it that you can approach these little drops in groups or sets - every set will require a different rhythm. I think you will end up riding your bike like a bucking bronco, combining a pre-jump with a manual with a nose wheelie with a double, then mixing it all up for the next set.
    It looked like the rider in the video was a little over their head, but it also looked pretty steep in places. Imagine if it was flat, but same timbers and angles. You'd bunny hop the timbers, jump off the timbers, manual between and off of them, or sometimes just plow through or lighten up across chatter (esp. closely-spaced bumps). Now put it all on a steep hill again. You'd ride it the same, but you'd use your momentum and gravity a little different. It doesn't look like the consequences are too harsh for using your front wheel through much of that, if I'm seeing it right.

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  19. #19
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    The chap steps are very easy once you get a groove!

    You have to manual them or do a tiny bunny hop, wheels level. If your front dips, you're going to eat it! Rear brake only, you'll pick up speed but it's not really that long. Just keep hopping, it's a fun section.

    No bucking bronco. You'll lose control quick.

    The top of chap is pretty difficult these days, it's so loose and basically full of ditches.

    That's the fun stuff. Nasty old chunk.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    The chap steps are very easy once you get a groove!

    You have to manual them or do a tiny bunny hop, wheels level. If your front dips, you're going to eat it! Rear brake only, you'll pick up speed but it's not really that long. Just keep hopping, it's a fun section.

    No bucking bronco. You'll lose control quick.

    The top of chap is pretty difficult these days, it's so loose and basically full of ditches.

    That's the fun stuff. Nasty old chunk.
    Definitely fun stuff, that’s for sure!

    You in Oakland, too?


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  21. #21
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    If you keep low with your upper body flat, you should be able to pump right down a lot of that.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexB_510 View Post
    Definitely fun stuff, that’s for sure!

    You in Oakland, too?


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    I used to be, im only semi local now but still try to hit the park weekly. Ive been riding that park for close to a decade though, and chap has always been a favorite... the top has just gotten so beat this year, its getting sketchy now.

    Its not a long trail, and I think cindy is "better", but chap is a weird challenge and you can ride it a few different ways to practice skills.

  23. #23
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    Nice...

    Yeah, I like Cindy a lot. I ride JMP about 2-3 times a week, and usually incorporate Chaparral, Cinderella, and Big Trees into the mix. Getting a little faster and a lot more comfortable/confident with each run.

    My “go-to” weekday ride is (starting on Skyline near the bottom of Big Trees)... Sequoia Bayview—> Cinderella—> Sunset (and/or Sinawik and/or Sunset Loop)—> Sequoia Bayview—> Chaparral—> Sequoia Bayview—> Big Trees

    If I want to add more mileage and climbing, I include a loop around Redwood Park on the ridge trails.

    See you out there some time! I’m the tall guy riding a Diamondback Mission with bright fluorescent green hoops (not my favorite feature of the bike...).


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  24. #24
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    There's a section like this on one of my favorite local trails:

    Tips for riding tightly spaced drops/steps?-img_1700.jpg

    The way to approach these lines is at high speed, in a crouched, racer position. Keep your weight neutrally balanced from front to rear. As your rear tire just clears each drop, push the bike down to the ground quickly with both your arms and legs, and quickly return to the crouched attack position. Repeat. It's almost like you're trying to avoid getting any "air" over each drop, and trying to maximize contact between your tires and the ground. Depending on the spacing of the steps, you may have to re-adjust your bike's attitude by manualing a little.

    As gnarly as the section I attached looks, it feels like a paved path when I nail it correctly.

    Edit: Dang -- anybody know why my pictures always show up sideways in MTBR?
    Bikes belong in Wilderness areas.

  25. #25
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    Seeing the picture from Mr. Cookie Monster was the kind of tech I thought the OP was talking about. That explaination how to ride that made a lot of sense, can’t wait to try it out.

  26. #26
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    Tips for riding tightly spaced drops/steps?

    Yeah, that picture looks like a similar piece of trail, but maybe a little more uniform with the distances between drops/steps.

    That approach of staying low and avoiding air makes sense. Time to practice... headed out to the trail in a few minutes!


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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ckeyeus View Post
    If you keep low with your upper body flat, you should be able to pump right down a lot of that.
    This.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexB_510 View Post
    Here’s a video of the Chaparral trail that shows the section I’m referring to (not my video). This particular rider took some of the easier lines around the edges of the trail, but I think it gives you an idea of the terrain. It’s the tightly spaced railroad tie steps/drops that I’m trying to work on.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG2PLiox6pU&app=desktop



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    I watched the video and I think your idea and my idea of 'successive' is a bit different.

    I consider this at 1:32 'successive'.

    https://youtu.be/sZphUr7mVa8

    BTW, it's cool the guy called it the most technical trail in Central TX, it sure is fun for sure but I don't think it's top 5 in a 15 minute radius for most technical.

    The proper way to ride the trail in your video would be to approximately double the speed of the rider in the video (not the downhill section cause that was quite fast already), maintain a nice neutral aggressive body position with a small manual off each rail road tie. You want to be pretty far forward so that you are in the right position to lift the front when needed. When you lean way off the back, you don't have a position of control, nor anywhere to go with it when you find yourself about to nail a stump at 16 mph.

    Good luck!

  29. #29
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    That POV trail looks fun... not how the rider did it, but ya know


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  30. #30
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    It depends a bit on your experience level and what bike you're riding too. At higher speeds a <1' step down isn't much more than trail chatter on a mid to long travel bike and at most you'll probably just row a bit to stay centered on the bike. The problem is when they're so close together that you don't touch down before the drop and those two 1' drops are now a 2' drop. Then you either need to slow down or make sure you know where your wheels will land.


    If the small drop/jump face is inclined/raised then you can treat it like a roller. You just absorb the face of it with your legs then push down on the backside. Even there's no landing you can still pump through them and maybe even develop a rhythm and carry good speed.

  31. #31
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    Tips for riding tightly spaced drops/steps?

    Here’s another video showing the section of trail I’m referring to. It’s at about 1:00 to 1:10 in this one:

    https://br-channel.com/vision/chapar...WdfKupvRI.html

    As usual, the GoPro footage doesn’t really do the terrain justice, but I think you get the idea. Looks like the grade hits about -31% where these steps/drops are located. Fun stuff!

    And thanks again for all the tips, guys!


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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexB_510 View Post
    Here’s another video showing the section of trail I’m referring to. It’s at about 1:00 to 1:10 in this one:

    https://br-channel.com/vision/chapar...WdfKupvRI.html

    As usual, the GoPro footage doesn’t really do the terrain justice, but I think you get the idea. Looks like the grade hits about -31% where these steps/drops are located. Fun stuff!

    And thanks again for all the tips, guys!


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    Even though the footage is not that flash you can see how the guy on the rig manuals out of the drops and keeps his himself centered and works the bike around. He also lands each drop evenly or maybe even back wheel first. You should try for the same process.


    Of course the type of bike you ride will determine how fast you can hit this line.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexB_510 View Post
    Here’s another video showing the section of trail I’m referring to. It’s at about 1:00 to 1:10 in this one:

    https://br-channel.com/vision/chapar...WdfKupvRI.html

    As usual, the GoPro footage doesn’t really do the terrain justice, but I think you get the idea. Looks like the grade hits about -31% where these steps/drops are located. Fun stuff!

    And thanks again for all the tips, guys!


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    You can see the elevation drop on the left side, so it does give perspective

    If "I" was to do this, I would treat them all as a bump jump and launch them. At a slower speed, however, I would get low (triceps horizontal to the bars) and push forward and out over every drop. A manual will probably cause your back wheel to catch on the lip of the boards and make your front end to drop uncontrollably (causing your body to drop, possibly causing OTB).

    Off topic: That Emma Long trail in Austin is one of the top tech trails in the country. It ain't no joke.

    Even more off (or on?) topic: I just found out I am going to be in Palo Alto in the next few weeks, so I will have to stop by over there and check out the trail.
    Last edited by Thustlewhumber; 09-17-2018 at 01:26 PM.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thustlewhumber View Post
    Off topic: That Emma Long trail in Austin is one of the top tech trails in the country. It ain't no joke.
    Further OT: When I first started MTBing about 4.5 years ago I was asking for riding advice and I posted that the trail I was riding was Emma Long on my '14 Bronson and a guy on this forum ripped in to me saying that it was an easy XC trail and I was riding the completely wrong bike. Funny thing is, I was so new I thought maybe he knew something I didn't. Lol.

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    Last edited by Suns_PSD; 09-17-2018 at 05:59 PM.

  35. #35
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    I'm sure he was confusing that trail with something else. I just remember walking a lot, lol.
    We don't ride to add days to our life, we ride to add life to the days we have left here.

  36. #36
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    OP - what kind of bike are you riding?
    Safe riding,

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  37. #37
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    2017 Diamondback Mission 1 (see link for spec). Only changes I’ve made so far are adding a dropper post and swapping out the SRAM brakes for XTs.

    https://www.rei.com/rei-garage/produ...0aApB3EALw_wcB


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    Tips for riding tightly spaced drops/steps?

    Funny thing happened yesterday... I swapped out my grips for some Rogues (I’m a tall guy with big hands). Immediately I felt much more “connected” to my bike, and it gave me a bit of a confidence boost. So... I hit this trail again carrying much more speed, and it felt amazing. I was able to get low, get my weight back a little, and float right over whole sections that had been slowing me down. So fun...

    I guess the key for me was to hit it faster and with more confidence. Go figure.






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  39. #39
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    Excellent.
    It's definitely a confidence sport. And pinning it definitely helps too.
    Congrats

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  40. #40
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    yeah man. There is a critical speed to certain trail features that you typically have to overcome on any given trail where it becomes smoother and safer. The mind screams at you that its unsafe because its faster. Thats a percieved fear. The reality is when you hit the features at the optimal speed it is safer and smoother. And sooooo much more fun.

    Some people never make it past that stage because the fear controls them.

    Once you break through.... oh yeah.


    Of course gnarlier track requires more commitment.

  41. #41
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    Yup. That all makes sense.

    Then again, the “safer” part might be debatable. You might be less likely to OTB if you overcome that critical speed, but if you DO, you’ll be going much faster.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexB_510 View Post
    Yup. That all makes sense.

    Then again, the “safer” part might be debatable. You might be less likely to OTB if you overcome that critical speed, but if you DO, you’ll be going much faster.


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    If OTB is your concern on drops then you are definitely not going fast enough, or putting your weight far enough back. I crash on drops from time to time, but never OTB... I've just got too much momentum going forward and my weight too far back for it to happen.

  43. #43
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    I was using the term “OTB” loosely. Just meant eating sh*t in general.


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  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexB_510 View Post
    I was using the term “OTB” loosely. Just meant eating sh*t in general.


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    Gotcha... But don't do that! It's a specific term with a specific meaning.

    Speed really is safer though, for two reasons:

    First, gaps (either distance-wise on a double jump or height-wise on a drop) cease to exist at a certain speed; it is literally impossible to come up short on any given feature at a certain speed. It's amazing how much a little space can impact you visually, when in reality you couldn't put your wheel in there if you tried with the proper speed. Takes a lot of experience to trust this fact, but it is a fact.

    Second, bikes like to stay upright and moving forward and this inclination increases with speed due to momentum and gyroscopic forces. It is counter-intuitive, but when something seems sketchy my first thought is to just hit it fast as hell. Sometimes tough sections of trail at slow speeds are sidewalks when going fast. (Of course this isn't always the case, there are some moves that are catastrophic when going fast - but they're less common than the opposite.)

  45. #45
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    That all makes sense, and matches my experience. Thanks again!


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  46. #46
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    Flying into San Jose tonight, will be in the Palo Alto area for a few days. I will try to rent a bike and see how I fare on that trail.
    We don't ride to add days to our life, we ride to add life to the days we have left here.

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    Do it!

    It’s just a short downhill trail, but there’s a fair amount of singletrack to explore in Joaquin Miller Park. A typical ride here involves several creative loops to make the most of the limited acreage. You’re never too far from the trailhead, so just follow whatever trail looks fun until you’re ready to quit.


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  48. #48
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    Did you hit it this weekend? I almost slid off the side, off that cliff!

    Its a mess. I can't wait until jmp gets some rain. It's much more fun when it's a little tacky. All in all, I think Cinderella is more enjoyable and less loose.

  49. #49
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    I didn’t hit Chap it this weekend, but I did ride Cinderella. Actually I rode about half of Cinderella, then stopped to help a rider who had fallen real bad... His helmet was cracked clean in two, and his collarbone was definitely broken. I helped him walk his stuff back to the road where his buddy was going to pick him up...

    You talking about the drop off on your right near the fallen tree? That’s a tricky spot with how loose it is right now!


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