NS Surge vs On One 456- Mtbr.com
Results 1 to 66 of 66
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227

    NS Surge vs On One 456... Got the Ragley Blue Pig

    I am currently riding a 2007 Kona Coiler for my all mountain duties. I also have a DH bike (Rotec RL9) which I obviously use for shuttle days and for N*. This got me think about trying out a AM hardtail since I don't need the Coiler for shuttling any more.

    I am going to be moving to about 1/2 mile from the trails in Auburn, and I'm going to start riding from home, so I want something that will climb better than the Coiler (I know that sometimes suspension climbs better, but the climbs are pretty smooth here) but still be fun for going down.

    I was pretty set on getting the On One 456 (originally the Summer Season, but decided it's too slack). I like the look of the frame, and the price is great ($300 direct from On One), although I was thinking it may be a little too steep for my liking (Coiler is 66 deg HA).

    Well, in my search I found the NS Bikes Surge. I found it for $260 which is great, and I like the 67 deg HA. It may be heavier though (6.1 pounds, claimed, which is a LOT lighter than the Coiler), which isn't a bad thing since I'm 220 pounds and plan on doing some jumping/drops. Has anyone ridden this bike yet? How do you like it? I have read great reviews on the On One, but not much on the NS Surge.

    I also read that the On One's geo is measure at sag, but I'm not about the NS Surge, so they may not be that different in geo...

    I guess I'm just looking for some help deciding before I make a purchase.

    Thanks!

    PS. I'm keeping the Coiler until I decide if I like the hardtail or not. lol
    Last edited by KillerSloth; 08-21-2009 at 03:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    If I were in the market for an affordable steel frame I would opt for a Ragley Blue Pig, designed by Brant Richards, formerly of On One (who designed the 456).

    I had and just sold a Ti 456 and it was AMAZING all around, but if steel, I would STRONGLY consider the Blue Pig.


    Blue Pig is only $370 with I believe Free Shipping (Brant works under the Chainreaction umbrella which is why they sell em)


    It has a 67.5 deg HA which is great...between the 456 and Summer Season



    https://chainreactioncycles.com/Mode...?ModelID=39112

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,841
    Cheers Fo.

    And the great news from here is that Blue Pigs FINALLY land today (I checked, it was the 9th February when I sent drawings to Taiwan for the first sample, so six months from that to production isn't too bad I guess).

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    FoShizzle,

    Why would you go with the Blue Pig? Don't get me wrong, I really like it, and was actually considering it before, but at $110 more than the NS Surge (or $70 more than the 456) it's harder for me to justify. I have a pretty limited budget, since I'm about to move, so my money is going toward that.

    I like the weight and geo, but what is the geometry based off of (140mm?; 160mm?) and are the measurements at sag?

    I also am planning on swapping all the parts from my Coiler for now, but plan on buying a new fork soon, so that cuts into the budget of the frame.

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,841
    Geometry based off 140mm Revelation at 30% sag (ride height).

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    ... Hmmmm... I really like that since I was thinking about running a Pike.

    Anyone know what the geo on the Surge is based off, and the BB height? (they are pretty vague)

    Maybe I should save a little more and go with the Blue Pig

    Would have to decide between Skwosh and Black though...

    What is the weight of the 20" frame? I don't know if I should trust the chart CRC has, since it says the mmmBop is lighter...

    Also, do you happen to have any built up pictures? I know you haven't recieved the frames yet (or recently did), but maybe one of the early models/protos?

    Thanks!
    Last edited by KillerSloth; 08-19-2009 at 08:26 AM.

  7. #7
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    ... Hmmmm... I really like that! lol

    Anyone know what the geo on the Surge is based off, and the BB height? (they are pretty vague)

    Maybe I should save a little more and go with the Blue Pig

    Would have to decide between Skwosh and Black though...

    What is the weight of the 20" frame? I don't know if I should trust the chart CRC has, since it says the mmmBop is lighter...
    well, you are fortunate where unlike MOST other companies, you have the actual designer in this thread. Perhaps he will clarify once he sees question.

    Plus, Brant also isn't afraid to post videos of himself crashing on his bikes while testing...and swearing, another plus

  8. #8
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    FoShizzle,

    Why would you go with the Blue Pig? Don't get me wrong, I really like it, and was actually considering it before, but at $110 more than the NS Surge (or $70 more than the 456) it's harder for me to justify. I have a pretty limited budget, since I'm about to move, so my money is going toward that.
    Given your comments, your points well taken. While it may be more, and while maybe from a percentage difference its a bit, in absolute terms $110 certainly is not much...i know, easy for me to say as its not my money.

    Long story short, my bias is to buy from companies like Brants, Turner, Ventana, etc...i like to know the person designing and/or building my bikes, just the way I am. Maybe its my OCD where I need to have my questions answered direactly...dunno. More specifically, I have owned now 4 bikes designed by Brant, ALL of which were truly outstanding, period. If you can swing the extra coin I am confident in the long term you will not regret it.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,841
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    What is the weight of the 20" frame? I don't know if I should trust the chart CRC has, since it says the mmmBop is lighter...

    Also, do you happen to have any built up pictures? I know you haven't recieved the frames yet (or recently did), but maybe one of the early models/protos?

    Thanks!
    Here's a black 16in one - not much use - http://www.flickr.com/photos/n_b_t/3786699208/

    mmmBop is lighter - it's aluminium.

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    I thought the mmmBop was just a heavy duty (steel) version of the Blue Pig... I guess I should actually read a little bit more. lol

    Fo,

    I agree with you about being able to talk to designers/builders/etc of a bike, and the fact that Brant has been so helpful, with out me even emailing him, makes me want the Blue Pig even more


    Kind of like when I posted my Rotec RL9 (which was used) on RM, and the owner of Rotec PMed me with his email and cell #, and told me if I had any questions to let him know. I think I'll be sticking with them for a while because of that.


    I think I'll be ordering the Blue Pig, the fork can wait a little longer.

    One thing I was worried about with the Surge is the fact that is a little over built (since it's for freeride rather than AM), so it would be stiffer and I would loss a bit of the subtleness the steel gives on the trail.
    Last edited by KillerSloth; 08-19-2009 at 09:13 AM.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    I just noticed they pushed back the ship date until tomorrow, which is probably because they are already closed...



    Would this be a good fit for the Blue Pig? I'm pretty new to biking, so just wanted to make sure...

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...px?ModelID=851

    Seems like a good deal, and pretty light. The reviews on here are pretty good too.

  12. #12
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    I just noticed they pushed back the ship date until tomorrow, which is probably because they are already closed...



    Would this be a good fit for the Blue Pig? I'm pretty new to biking, so just wanted to make sure...

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/M...px?ModelID=851

    Seems like a good deal, and pretty light. The reviews on here are pretty good too.
    i am not an expert but seems fine to me. I have an FSA Extreme (Pro version) on my Sultan and it seems fine.

    new to biking? you have an RL9 and Coiler???...you mean new to building up a bike part by part?

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    Both... I started riding last June. Got the Coiler for $900 new from Jenson. Then got the RL9 a few months ago used for an amazing deal otherwise I would still only have the Coiler.

    I used to do desert racing on my motorcycle, so I had a bit of a head start.

  14. #14
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    Both... I started riding last June. Got the Coiler for $900 new from Jenson. Then got the RL9 a few months ago used for an amazing deal otherwise I would still only have the Coiler.

    I used to do desert racing on my motorcycle, so I had a bit of a head start.
    very kewl! and its not as if it means anything if somebody has been riding for longer anyway!

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    remember though, brant also designed the 456. they are great bikes for the money. both ragley and on one are made in taiwan i believe so build quality will be close. i'd personally lean towards an on one as i haven't seen any ridwe reviews of the ragley by customers or mags. not that brant doesn't know his stuff but he's obviously going to plug ragley more so than on one now. i'm loving my 456 summer session by the way.

  16. #16
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000
    remember though, brant also designed the 456. they are great bikes for the money. both ragley and on one are made in taiwan i believe so build quality will be close. i'd personally lean towards an on one as i haven't seen any ridwe reviews of the ragley by customers or mags. not that brant doesn't know his stuff but he's obviously going to plug ragley more so than on one now. i'm loving my 456 summer session by the way.
    agreed 100%...the 456 is great and i owned one (Ti version) and it was amazing. but the poster said he felt the summer was too slack and wanted 67 which is why the blue pig makes perfect sense.

    and for people who rely on reviews, i take em for what its worth..there are at least reviews on the Ti Ragley already that can perhaps be extrapolated, to include one from a mag

    http://www.ragleybikes.com/2009/07/r...ey-ti-in-mbuk/

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...frame-09-34940

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    agreed 100%...the 456 is great and i owned one (Ti version) and it was amazing. but the poster said he felt the summer was too slack and wanted 67 which is why the blue pig makes perfect sense.

    and for people who rely on reviews, i take em for what its worth..there are at least reviews on the Ti Ragley already that can perhaps be extrapolated, to include one from a mag

    http://www.ragleybikes.com/2009/07/r...ey-ti-in-mbuk/

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/catego...frame-09-34940
    true. but the ns bikes are nice as well as far as reviews go. the ragley review pointed out that although the headtube angles is 67 degrees the seat tube angle is steep in relation to other 67 degree bikes. they call it a radical postion and say it isn't for everyone. as long as the op realises that headtube angle is only one part of the equation he can make an informed decision on a bike with a 67 degree head angle. i'd want to try anything considered "radical". in the case of the summer session, for 300 bucks it's a cheap experiment. i was right on the pay button for a 456 ti, but wanted to try something a little more slack. at a cheap price point the summer session was an easy choice. i get to try it out and see if i do go ti, i'll go custom to my specs if i like the geometry.

  18. #18
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fix the Spade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,749
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    Anyone know what the geo on the Surge is based off, and the BB height? (they are pretty vague)
    NS say it's based on a 520mm A2C, which I make to be a six inch fork like a 36.

  19. #19
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000
    true. but the ns bikes are nice as well as far as reviews go. the ragley review pointed out that although the headtube angles is 67 degrees the seat tube angle is steep in relation to other 67 degree bikes. they call it a radical postion and say it isn't for everyone. as long as the op realises that headtube angle is only one part of the equation he can make an informed decision on a bike with a 67 degree head angle. i'd want to try anything considered "radical". in the case of the summer session, for 300 bucks it's a cheap experiment. i was right on the pay button for a 456 ti, but wanted to try something a little more slack. at a cheap price point the summer session was an easy choice. i get to try it out and see if i do go ti, i'll go custom to my specs if i like the geometry.
    indeed...I think for many the Ragley is dialed in with its "radical" geo setup, though everybody has their own preferences ,fortunately for custom builders.

    good luck sorting things out before unloading for Ti...I gotta say, after my Ti 456 I was so blown away that I swore any AM hardtail I owned would also be Ti...and there you have it

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    I actually like the idea of the steeper seat angle. It will be a good advantage going up and I'm not sure how much I'll notice it going down, since I will be standing...

    Currently I have a fairly short HT (4.7" on the Coiler), so I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make.

    My Coiler is pretty slack, and tries to wander when going up hills, and it has a longer CS, so I think the steeper ST will help counteract the shorter stays on the Blue Pig.

    I may be COMPLETELY wrong in thinking this, so let me know... lol

    I thinking the 18" will be the right size for me too at 6'0" - 6'1".


    I'm starting to piece together all of the stuff I need, it sure is adding up fast.... lol

    Thing I need for the new frame (won't transfer from the Coiler)
    Headset (will transfer, but would rather get a new one)
    New Seatpost (not sure on length, thinking a 350mm)
    Seatpost Collar
    New front ring (32T) and chainguide (thinking the MRP 1.x, not sure if I need the bash) OR a new front derailuer (different ST sizes)

    I just hope that I like the HT side of riding... I think I will, and have spent a lot of time thinking of the pros and cons...

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    indeed...I think for many the Ragley is dialed in with its "radical" geo setup, though everybody has their own preferences ,fortunately for custom builders.

    good luck sorting things out before unloading for Ti...I gotta say, after my Ti 456 I was so blown away that I swore any AM hardtail I owned would also be Ti...and there you have it
    as long as it's a reputable ti builder like lynskey using us ti. i wouldn't want some chinese junk ti tubing on my custom bike.

  22. #22
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000
    as long as it's a reputable ti builder like lynskey using us ti. i wouldn't want some chinese junk ti tubing on my custom bike.
    LOL...funny you say that. I have a current "project" underway accordingly

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    When don't you have a "current" project (that will MAYBE last 2 weeks when finished) underway?

  24. #24
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    When don't you have a "current" project (that will MAYBE last 2 weeks when finished) underway?
    ha! fair point...i actually am required to always have a project given my OCD...really.

    Having said that, my On One Inbred 29er I have had perhaps as long as I have ever owned a bike and would only imagine replacing it with a Ti version otherwise, its flawless in all regards

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    When don't you have a "current" project (that will MAYBE last 2 weeks when finished) underway?

    hahahaha. yeah, when fo said he had a ti456 you do have to take it with a grain of salt becuase he sold it after like 6 rides. maybe going custom will force him to keep it for at least 25 rides before he's onto something new. unfortunately it'll be even harder to sell with custom geometry.

  26. #26
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by qbert2000
    hahahaha. yeah, when fo said he had a ti456 you do have to take it with a grain of salt becuase he sold it after like 6 rides. maybe going custom will force him to keep it for at least 25 rides before he's onto something new. unfortunately it'll be even harder to sell with custom geometry.
    actually, i LOVED the Ti 456, most fun ever on a hardtail given the AM geometry, but my OCD forced me to ask, "how might a bigger wheeled version work..."

    I woulda kept it for sure but $ is tight with 3 ex-wives so i needed to sell stuff to fund project

  27. #27
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    ...i actually am required to always have a project given my OCD...
    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    ...3 ex-wives...
    I'm going to leave that one along...

  28. #28
    Build More = Ride More
    Reputation: YoPawn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,442
    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    actually, i LOVED the Ti 456, most fun ever on a hardtail given the AM geometry, but my OCD forced me to ask, "how might a bigger wheeled version work..."

    I woulda kept it for sure but $ is tight with 3 ex-wives so i needed to sell stuff to fund project
    Let me guess. You teach economics at a community college?

    Yeah dude, that's some serious OCD. Did your Ti ever sell? I imagine you got a higher offer than my $1?

  29. #29
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by YoPawn
    Let me guess. You teach economics at a community college?

    Yeah dude, that's some serious OCD. Did your Ti ever sell? I imagine you got a higher offer than my $1?
    haha...i sold the frame, fork, and wheels in a matter of hours. People know when they buy from me that its in good shape!

    I certainly dont teach economics...I cant even get accepted as a student at our local junior colleage

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation: qbert2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,226
    [QUOTE=FoShizzle]haha... People know when they buy from me that its in good shape!

    all too true

  31. #31
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    Just ordered an 18" Black Ragley Blue Pig!

    Ended up with:
    FSA Orbit Xtreme Headset
    Hope QR Seatpost Collar (Blue)
    FSA FR-200 Seatpost

    Pretty much what I could find cheap (except the Hope collar, but still cheaper at CRC than most places)

    I'm going to order the chain ring (in blue) from a guy in So Cal (I Suck at Riding, I think) and then order the MRP 1.X and should be good to go.

    Hopefully it ships tomorrow (well today for CRC)

    I'll post up some pics when I get it!

    Thanks for all of the help guys

  32. #32
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-AIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,634
    How tall are you?

    Looks like a fun bike. I would really like to see some more pics of the bike built up. What fork are you planning on running?

    Thanks,
    TIM

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    Just ordered an 18" Black Ragley Blue Pig!

    Ended up with:
    FSA Orbit Xtreme Headset
    Hope QR Seatpost Collar (Blue)
    FSA FR-200 Seatpost

    Pretty much what I could find cheap (except the Hope collar, but still cheaper at CRC than most places)

    I'm going to order the chain ring (in blue) from a guy in So Cal (I Suck at Riding, I think) and then order the MRP 1.X and should be good to go.

    Hopefully it ships tomorrow (well today for CRC)

    I'll post up some pics when I get it!

    Thanks for all of the help guys

  33. #33
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    I'm 6'ish. I read a post somewhere where Brant said the 18" frame is up to someone 6'2". My Coiler is an 18" ST and 0.4 ETT longer so it should fit well.

    I'm going to be running the 150mm Drop Off 4 that came on my Coiler for now. I'm planning on upgrading to a RS Pike or a Manitou Minute 140mm when I get the money.

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,841
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    Just ordered an 18" Black Ragley Blue Pig!
    NICE ONE :-)

  35. #35
    local trails rider
    Reputation: perttime's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    12,228
    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR
    I would really like to see some more pics of the bike built up.
    Did you already see the black 16" Blue Pig that Brant has posted on his sites:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/n_b_t/3786699208/sizes/l/

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: G-AIR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,634
    Yeah! Thanks for the replies guys. I was just hoping for some more detailed shots.

    I am trying to decide on a hardtail. Looking at the Blue Pig, Alpine, Curtlo Custom, Evil, Chromag. I don't mind paying more for exactly what I want, but if I can get it for cheaper that would be great.

    Thankks,
    TIM


    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    Did you already see the black 16" Blue Pig that Brant has posted on his sites:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/n_b_t/3786699208/sizes/l/

  37. #37
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,841
    Quote Originally Posted by G-AIR
    Yeah! Thanks for the replies guys. I was just hoping for some more detailed shots.

    I am trying to decide on a hardtail. Looking at the Blue Pig, Alpine, Curtlo Custom, Evil, Chromag. I don't mind paying more for exactly what I want, but if I can get it for cheaper that would be great.

    Thankks,
    TIM
    Lots of blue pig detail here - http://ragley.posterous.com/blue-pig-info
    And a walk through of the various points here -

  38. #38
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    I'm 6'ish. I read a post somewhere where Brant said the 18" frame is up to someone 6'2". My Coiler is an 18" ST and 0.4 ETT longer so it should fit well.

    I'm going to be running the 150mm Drop Off 4 that came on my Coiler for now. I'm planning on upgrading to a RS Pike or a Manitou Minute 140mm when I get the money.
    good call.

    for what its worth, if i build another 26er AM hardtail I will run a U-Turn Lyrik. As much as the coil Pike rocked that I had on my 456, i would have liked the Lyrik more. Needed the Lyrik? No. But liked more, yes. Also, the coil lyrik would have been the same weight as my HEAVY ass Pike 426 with the steel steerer tube

  39. #39
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    That was another option, but I was trying to stay below 160mm. The Revolution comes in 150mm now I think, but it's a lot more than the Pike.

    That is one thing that helps sell the Pike/Minute is they seem to be quite a bit less $, and the Minute is pretty light...

    If I go with the Pike, I'll be looking for the 454 (I think) that has the aluminum steer tube and hollow crown which is 0.3 to 0.6 pounds less than the 426.

  40. #40
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    That was another option, but I was trying to stay below 160mm. The Revolution comes in 150mm now I think, but it's a lot more than the Pike.

    That is one thing that helps sell the Pike/Minute is they seem to be quite a bit less $, and the Minute is pretty light...

    If I go with the Pike, I'll be looking for the 454 (I think) that has the aluminum steer tube and hollow crown which is 0.3 to 0.6 pounds less than the 426.
    indeed...$ was one of the reason i went with 426 Pike...performed great, just heavy

    i think if you know where to shop the Lyrik can be "affordable" for sure, especially if you are then gonna consider 454 Pike anyway

    As for 160mm...i too thought i didnt want that but later realized what the heck, if in U-turn format, i would have preferred it where of course you dont have to run 160mm if you dont want anyway...though at times i would have loved the 160mm to be honest. Other primary reason is that all things equal, i would have rather had the larger (diameter) stanchions on the Lyrik (as compared to Pike)

  41. #41
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    Yeah, I like the idea of larger stanctions, especially at my weight, but the Drop Off 4 has 32mm stanctions (same as Pike/Minute) and I haven't noticed any flex.

    I guess it will come down to what I can find a deal on when I get around to buying a fork. The Marzocchi 55 ATAs are going for pretty cheap, but I think that is because they don't preform as well as the Pike/Lyric, and I'm a bit worried about reliability. Also if something goes wrong with it and they replace it with a new fork, I would be screwed because they dont have a travel adjust fork for 2010 (as far as I know)

  42. #42
    Dirt Deviant
    Reputation: savagemann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,694
    Quote Originally Posted by KillerSloth
    That was another option, but I was trying to stay below 160mm. The Revolution comes in 150mm now I think, but it's a lot more than the Pike.

    That is one thing that helps sell the Pike/Minute is they seem to be quite a bit less $, and the Minute is pretty light...

    If I go with the Pike, I'll be looking for the 454 (I think) that has the aluminum steer tube and hollow crown which is 0.3 to 0.6 pounds less than the 426.

    The minute is a pretty sweet fork for the price.
    I have 2 of them. a 120mm and a 140mm with IT. Put the 140mm on my 456. It felt good from day 1, but after several rides, it feels even better. The absolute damper is pretty sweet, and the IT is really nice for the super steep climbs.



    that Blue Pig is gonna be sweet man.......make sure you post up some porn after you get her all built up.
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  43. #43
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    Your bike is the one that made me want the 456, and also made me want a Manitou Minute... looks AMAZING. I love the blue/white combo.

  44. #44
    Dirt Deviant
    Reputation: savagemann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,694
    Thanks man.
    With all the blue/white, I was forced by my OCD to strip the decals off the fork. It just wasn't meshing well..........= )
    I have since put a blue CK headset and BB on it.....and just ordered a blue Woodman deathgrip QR seat clamp.
    I don't usually get all crazy with matching parts, but thought this bike was screaming for it......= )
    I can't wait to see the Pig built up.
    Do you have a parts list put together yet?
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  45. #45
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    As of right now I'm planning:

    Fork: Marzocchi Drop-Off 4 150mm travel w/20mm Dropouts
    Headset: FSA Orbit Xtreme
    Crankarms: Shimano Saint 170mm
    Chainrings: Single blue 32T
    Chainguide: MRP 1.X
    Pedals: Kona Wah Wah
    Chain: Shimano CN-HG53
    Cassette: Shimano Deore (11-34t)
    R/D: Shimano Deore LX
    Shifter: Shimano Deore
    Handlebar: Kona DH Aluminum OS Riser
    Stem: Kona XC/BC OS
    Grips: ODI Ruffian
    Brakes: Elixer R (203F, 185R)
    Front hub: KK Disc 20mm
    Rear hub: Shimano FH-M475 disc
    Spokes: stainless 14g
    Tires: Maxxis Minion 26x2.35
    Rims: Sun SingleTrack SL-1
    Saddle: WTB Pure V Race
    Seatpost: FSA FR-200
    Seat clamp: Hope QR (Blue)

    Pretty much what my Coiler came with, plus a few new parts that wont transfer. I upgraded the brakes and cranks on the Coiler too (Elixer/Saint). Also planning on just running single ring up front.

  46. #46
    Dirt Deviant
    Reputation: savagemann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,694
    Thats gonna be sweet.
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  47. #47
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    247
    brant, I'm sooo close to pulling the trigger. I have a couple questions though. Is the free shipping covered to US customers, or is there another distributor I should go through? estimates on how long it takes to ship? Sick design on the frame, I can't stop thinking about it.

    Last question, have you ridden it with a 130mm fork? Thoughts?

    Thanks! Hunter

  48. #48
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,841
    Quote Originally Posted by 300hp
    brant, I'm sooo close to pulling the trigger. I have a couple questions though. Is the free shipping covered to US customers, or is there another distributor I should go through? estimates on how long it takes to ship? Sick design on the frame, I can't stop thinking about it.
    Last question, have you ridden it with a 130mm fork? Thoughts?
    Thanks! Hunter
    Thankfully for all of you, I don't get involved with shipping and boxes and stuff like that anymore. I make stuff, Hotlines sell it :-)

    BUT - I do know we don't have any distributors in the USA (yet). So take your pick from our list of dealers.

    Any questions about shipping rates from specific dealers, should be asked of those specific dealers.

    And you'll understand that I can't favour any dealers over any others, or that'd upset other ones. If you see what I mean ;-)

  49. #49
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    I ordered mine through Chain Reaction Cycles, which offers free shipping on orders over $250 to the US. The frame is $370, so it's covered.

    Mine would have shipped today, but there was an issue with my card, so it didn't ship. Should ship out Monday though!

    I'm a bit mad at my card company... CRC billed it as 2 parts (parts seperate from frame, not sure why), so the card company let the first one (parts) through, but caught the second as fraud (which it wasn't). They didn't notify me though, so by the time I realized what had happened CRC was almost closed and it didn't get processed

    I think I have everything ordered though, just waiting for it to arrive

  50. #50
    Peace & Love
    Reputation: FoShizzle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,281
    Quote Originally Posted by 300hp
    brant, I'm sooo close to pulling the trigger. I have a couple questions though. Is the free shipping covered to US customers, or is there another distributor I should go through? estimates on how long it takes to ship? Sick design on the frame, I can't stop thinking about it.

    Last question, have you ridden it with a 130mm fork? Thoughts?

    Thanks! Hunter
    and I will also say that CRC has amazing shipping service. It is safe to say that delivery from CRC is virtually same as when i order from back east, literally, likely due to having to utilize air shipping..duh

    there should be no worry in ordering from CRC...i have ordered many an item without a complaint, to include custom wheelset (built in 1 day and shipped the following!!!!)

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,841
    >Last question, have you ridden it with a 130mm fork? Thoughts?

    I've not. But I'm sure it'll be lovely ;-)

  52. #52
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    and I will also say that CRC has amazing shipping service. It is safe to say that delivery from CRC is virtually same as when i order from back east, literally, likely due to having to utilize air shipping..duh

    there should be no worry in ordering from CRC...i have ordered many an item without a complaint, to include custom wheelset (built in 1 day and shipped the following!!!!)
    I guess I should have mentioned that too... lol

    I've ordered from them twice before, and both times it was less than a week. usually around 4 days from the time it goes out to the time it arrives. I'm in California though, so it normally takes a couple days to get here once it hits the east coast.

  53. #53
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    247
    Trigger=pulled.

    I am sooo excited for an all around hardtail in steel at a reasonable weight. The bike will see 60-80 xc miles a week, and the town I'm moving back to has a sanctioned dj park., and a couple sneaky mini dh courses. Can't wait to get her built up (which will happen the minute I rip that box open) and bomb around.

    Hunter

  54. #54
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    Congrats, don't forget to post pictures when you are done building it! What color did you go with?

    I should be getting my frame tomorrow (I was hoping today, but I don't think it'll happen)

  55. #55
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Pitto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    520
    any feedback on the Ragley Bluepig frames??

  56. #56
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    Ummm.. it looks great so far. lol

    I have been busy moving, so I haven't been able to take it on any trails.

    From the couple rides around the neighberhood and in the back yard it seems to ride and pedal good. Felt really weird not having the rear suspension, especially when just bouncing up and down will going down the road.

    Some of the cable guides were missing on the frame (this only happened with black frames, and should be solved by now) but they arrived in the mail today, so I'll be tossing those on soon.

    Mine wieghed in at roughly 31 pounds with a fairly heavy build. Some may consider that heavy, but it feels like nothing compared to my 47 pound downhill bike (and my 38 pound Kona Coiler it replaced)! lol

  57. #57
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Pitto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    520
    thats the only thing stopping me from making my purchase. Going from a Reign DS to a AM HT, when i get on my wifes HT it just feels weird not having rear suspension.

    i am trying to get it into my head that its not going to replace the Reign, more like a supplement.

  58. #58
    FM
    FM is offline
    mtbr member
    Reputation: FM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    9,455
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitto
    i am trying to get it into my head that its not going to replace the Reign, more like a supplement.
    I remember this spring when I built up my burly hardtail and test-rode it around the neighborhood. It felt weird- I was so used to pumping the suspension on my 6" bike and this hardtail doesn't bounce back! It took me only 2-3 rides to come to grips with it. You cannot be lazy, to have to stand and deliver on the downhills! Sitting will not be tolerated, LOL. But the bike is also lighter and more efficient, so you spend less energy on the climbs.

    I ended up not riding my 6" bike all summer, even up at whistler, so I just sold it. I don't miss it. The hardtail takes more skill, maybe I don't go quite as big on it, but it's so rewarding to ride. When I clean a section, I know it's because of my riding, not the suspension. Oddly, Ive cleaned a lot of things that gave me problems on my dually. I think it's the lower center of gravity you get on a hardtail.

    Now with fall here, we are back to screwing around on jumps and drops, and again I have to tell myself that I don't need rear suspension to hit this stuff.... and when I do hit it everything goes just fine. But yeah... it takes a while to get it through your head. So, the learning continues....I figure I'll spend a full season on the hardtail just to re-learn the basics before I consider going back to suspension for trail riding.

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Pitto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    520
    Yeah, thats kind of what i was thinking. I thought id be doing bigger stuff with the Reign.

    Everything you said makes sense to me.

    thanks

  60. #60
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    247
    yo brant, my frame finally came in today, I've been checking the tracking numbers from work! Needless to say I'm really excited. Anyway, have you blue pig owners done any frame prep prior to buildup? My LBS wants 25 to face a ht and 25 to face a bb. Would you consider this necessary or not worth it? I'm on a limited budget right now, and I don't have the tools to do this myself. What would a grumpy designer like you do?

    thanks dood,

    Hunter

  61. #61
    mtbr member
    Reputation: brant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    2,841
    I never face anything to be honest. It is factory faced.

    Some people swear by facing/tapping/whatever, and I guess it's not a bad thing to do, but not essential in my experience.

  62. #62
    Dirt Deviant
    Reputation: savagemann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,694
    I have never seen a need to face a steel frame.
    I usually chase the BB threads though.
    Look, whatever happens, don't fight the mountain.

  63. #63
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    247
    thanks for the snap-snap-snappy reply. Hopefully I'll be pedaling it this weekend!

  64. #64
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    227
    I didn't face mine...

    thread your BB in by hand, if you can't do it by hand, get the threads chased...

    If you can't get it in by hand there may be something messed up with the threads, or something in the threads, so it may jack up your BB if you force it... with that said, mine went in fine.

  65. #65
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    863
    Quote Originally Posted by FoShizzle
    Given your comments, your points well taken. While it may be more, and while maybe from a percentage difference its a bit, in absolute terms $110 certainly is not much...i know, easy for me to say as its not my money.

    Long story short, my bias is to buy from companies like Brants, Turner, Ventana, etc...i like to know the person designing and/or building my bikes, just the way I am. Maybe its my OCD where I need to have my questions answered direactly...dunno. More specifically, I have owned now 4 bikes designed by Brant, ALL of which were truly outstanding, period. If you can swing the extra coin I am confident in the long term you will not regret it.
    Oh like ns bikes dont have riders to design there bikes ??? they have had one of the best free ride team in the world for years !!!! heloooooooooo

  66. #66
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Fix the Spade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,749
    Quote Originally Posted by AMCAT
    Oh like ns bikes dont have riders to design there bikes ??? they have had one of the best free ride team in the world for years !!!! heloooooooooo
    The designer for NS is called Szymon Kobylinski and his English is... better than mine actually. He's a rider too but you're more likely to find him on Polish forums than mtbr.

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

THE SITE

ABOUT MTBR

VISIT US AT

© Copyright 2019 VerticalScope Inc. All rights reserved.