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  1. #1
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    Next Game Changer?

    Today's Bike Mag Web Monkey article got me thinking - what's the next game changer? We've seen how things in the past like suspension and disk brakes have dramatically moved bike performance forward. When I bought my 2010 Stumpy I thought it would be a 10 year bike, and it still is in the sense that I can keep riding it and having fun. But since then there have been a few big changes that now pretty much all bikes have.

    Thru axles and 142 spacing
    Slack geo and tapered headtubes
    Wide bars with short stems and long top tubes
    Dropper post
    Clutch derailleurs and 1X drivetrains
    Carbon on mid level, less expensive bikes
    Tubeless tires
    Wide Carbon rims
    More travel

    I've added wide bars/short stem and a dropper, but I can't add thru axles, change rear axle spacing, tapered head tube, etc. There will always be refinements like electronic shifting and the LaPierre automated rear suspension. But what's next? What will make a new 2015 mountain bike obsolete by 2020 the way my bike now is? I can't think of anything (I guess if I could I'd be building/selling it!). Has bike development reached it's max potential for significant, big changes?

    The Web Monkey Speaks: Time Is Cruel - BIKE Magazine

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    I think internal geared hubs that are lighter, affordable, with belt drive would turn current drive trains obsolete. I get tired if wiping chain grime and re-lubing. How about an every 6 month oil change in the rear hub instead? No noise. As efficient chain line as a single speed. Just my thoughts.

  3. #3
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    Guns in the headtube.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    the santa cruz hecklers from a few years ago had bottle openers built into the frame, near the rear dropout. bring it back!!

  5. #5
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    The next game changer. It's already here man. E-bikes!

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    What about single lever braking that controls both front and rear and the ability to fine tune brake pressure for each. Sort of like any race car. Single lever braking would be sweet except could likely no longer fishtail your bike.

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    Next Game Changer?

    x2 on the bottle opener! i cant believe they got rid of it! it was awesome!

  8. #8
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    Fat tires on full squish. The fat bike just grips everything so well, and full suspension makes it a viable bike for any condition. Weight is coming way down, and only getting more refined .

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    Peeps actually RIDING there $10k bikes.
    SPD pedals are an absolute menace to the well-being of the world, and ought be banned immediately.

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    Your bike is not obsolete for riding- only for posing on the internet. Most of those things you listed are refinements, not game changers. If you want to upgrade to a better bike, then do it, but don't tell yourself you have to because your current ride is obsolete, because that is simply not true.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane5001 View Post
    I think internal geared hubs that are lighter, affordable, with belt drive would turn current drive trains obsolete. I get tired if wiping chain grime and re-lubing. How about an every 6 month oil change in the rear hub instead? No noise. As efficient chain line as a single speed. Just my thoughts.
    They'll always have the internal drag issue along with not being usable on FS bikes.

  12. #12
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    electronic suspension like bmw and ducati have would be a cool concept, but with added weight probably wouldnt go too far

  13. #13
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    stravatard genocide or babies placed on spikes. whichever makes more sense

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    OP you can put wide rims on your bike now.
    Gear Review: Ibis 941 Wheels - Mtbr.com
    The info applies to all wide rims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane5001 View Post
    I think internal geared hubs that are lighter, affordable, with belt drive would turn current drive trains obsolete. I get tired if wiping chain grime and re-lubing. How about an every 6 month oil change in the rear hub instead? No noise. As efficient chain line as a single speed. Just my thoughts.
    I agree. I'm baffled as to why this hasn't happened, yet. Sure, maybe some extra drag, but it can't be much more than a derailleur setup with less-than-ideal chainlines. Full-suspension would present an issue, but with shock technology where it us these days, a pivot around the bottom bracket would be an acceptable possibility. A spring-loaded tensioner would be a possibility, as well. I would love to get rid of my rear derailleur.

  16. #16
    NWS
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    My guess is it'll be longer travel. A few years from now, AM/Enduro bikes will all have at least 180mm, some will have more. Maybe with thumb switches to make them firmer for climbing, but maybe not.

    Longer droppers and shorter seat tubes.

    Cassettes will drop down to 8 cogs for simplicity.

    Wheel diameters will just be a side-effect of frame size:
    Small frame? 26" wheels.
    Medium, 27.5"
    Large, 29."

    I hope I still remember this thread in 2020 so I can see whether I guessed right.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    My guess is it'll be longer travel. A few years from now, AM/Enduro bikes will all have at least 180mm, some will have more. Maybe with thumb switches to make them firmer for climbing, but maybe not.

    Longer droppers and shorter seat tubes.

    Cassettes will drop down to 8 cogs for simplicity.

    Wheel diameters will just be a side-effect of frame size:
    Small frame? 26" wheels.
    Medium, 27.5"
    Large, 29."

    I hope I still remember this thread in 2020 so I can see whether I guessed right.
    I dint think travel is going to go up much more, not without a big change I geometry. How much higher can forks get before small and medium riders can't fit?

    Longer droppers and shorter seat times for sure.

    8 speed is dead.

    26 is dead.

    29???

    Next big thing is Fatbike Enduro!
    Formerly Travis Bickle

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    I agree. I'm baffled as to why this hasn't happened, yet. Sure, maybe some extra drag, but it can't be much more than a derailleur setup with less-than-ideal chainlines. Full-suspension would present an issue, but with shock technology where it us these days, a pivot around the bottom bracket would be an acceptable possibility. A spring-loaded tensioner would be a possibility, as well. I would love to get rid of my rear derailleur.
    Been tried, didn't work. Also, turning pedaling energy into heat inside of the shock is another waste. A tensioner presents the same problem as derailleurs anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    My guess is it'll be longer travel. A few years from now, AM/Enduro bikes will all have at least 180mm, some will have more. Maybe with thumb switches to make them firmer for climbing, but maybe not.

    Longer droppers and shorter seat tubes.

    Cassettes will drop down to 8 cogs for simplicity.

    Wheel diameters will just be a side-effect of frame size:
    Small frame? 26" wheels.
    Medium, 27.5"
    Large, 29."

    I hope I still remember this thread in 2020 so I can see whether I guessed right.
    Only time will tell with suspension travel. I know a few years ago, I'd never have thought that a 6" travel bike could climb so well. Is there a limit? My new "enduro-type bike" already feels like a mini-DH bike with just 2 inches less travel than an actual DH bike, so where do we go from here? It'll be a battle to keep BBs high enough for normal riding, low enough so you don't need a step stool to get on the bike and find somewhere for the rear wheel to go without making the wheelbase too long.

    As long as they can keep them reliable and functional, the more gears the better. The front derailleur, or at least the triple ring setup, is on it's way out, and I support that...so maybe a change to rear hub sizing in order to accommodate more gears on the cassette and add strength to rear wheels.

    Personally, I think we're experiencing a step in mtb evolution right now with the perfect storm of small changes that makes the new crop of 650b longer-travel (pick your buzzword/marketing term) enduro/trail/all mountain bikes possible. If you (anyone) have an opportunity to demo one, do it. But try not to fall in love.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    I hope I still remember this thread in 2020 so I can see whether I guessed right.
    I'll save you the suspense- you didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mountainbiker24 View Post
    I agree. I'm baffled as to why this hasn't happened, yet. Sure, maybe some extra drag, but it can't be much more than a derailleur setup with less-than-ideal chainlines. Full-suspension would present an issue, but with shock technology where it us these days, a pivot around the bottom bracket would be an acceptable possibility. A spring-loaded tensioner would be a possibility, as well. I would love to get rid of my rear derailleur.
    The chain and cog is one of the most efficient drive trains ever developed. Efficiency goes way down when you go to gears.
    The issue with full suspension isn't keeping the chain on, it's unsprung weight. Putting that much weight at the hub makes for one poorly operating suspension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    They'll always have the internal drag issue along with not being usable on FS bikes.
    I was thinking of a tension-er like the Surly Singulator, not perfect, but very smooth, reliable, and better than derailleurs. The current stuff will always have those issues, I hope the next big thing will be bomb proof newly designed stuff, the technology is there "race cars, race motorbikes, etc." There are some pretty smooth drive-trains out there, but in my opinion that rear derailleur will always be a weak link. A couple of years back I was in my lbs and saw a Lenz Sport 29er full sus on the rack, had a belt driven 8 speed internal hub. I haven't ran into the owner on the trail yet, so haven't been able to get a report.

  22. #22
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    Actually even better, how about the belt tensioner on the chain guide tabs around the BB?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by nauc View Post
    x2 on the bottle opener! i cant believe they got rid of it! it was awesome!
    Yeah! I could easily pay extra for that. Not so much of a game changer though...
    Last edited by Max24; 03-02-2015 at 05:42 PM.

  24. #24
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    26" wheel bikes will change the entire game.....again.

  25. #25
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    mid fat bikes. lighter, stronger, and more refined frames.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iamtylerdurden View Post
    26" wheel bikes will change the entire game.....again.

    I'm staying ahead of the curve with wide 26"rims. Oh wait that's old school. Should I take off my Gazzolodi 3.0's
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    ...Personally, I think we're experiencing a step in mtb evolution right now with the perfect storm of small changes that makes the new crop of 650b longer-travel (pick your buzzword/marketing term) enduro/trail/all mountain bikes possible. If you (anyone) have an opportunity to demo one, do it. But try not to fall in love.
    Too late! I have a 2010 Heckler and I really like it. However, about 4 weeks ago there was an Intense demo at my local trail and I test rode a new Tracer T275C and instantly fell in love! Honestly it blew my Heckler out of the water. I don't know if has to do with wheel size, geometry, single-pivot vs VPP or what, but the T275 just felt better in every way. Climbing, descending, technical stuff...everything. So much so that I am now an owner of a new Tracer and I wasn't even in the market for a new ride! Yeah, the bikes nowdays are unreal.

    Before the Intense demo....




    And after....



    Actually, there is one thing my old Heckler has over this new bike. Yup....the bottle opener!!

  28. #28
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    I think were not too far (5 years?) from deore/x-5 level blue tooth everything. no hoses no cables.
    I've already told my wife that i'm going to have to get it.

  29. #29
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    I think the electronics are going everywhere. Carbon tubes will have circuits and junctions will be the interface points. All shifting, braking, and suspension will be controlled on the fly via the handlebars (or voice command) or will have "idiot mode" where you just ride at your level and the bike will sense conditions and adjust accordingly.

  30. #30
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    Eventually, the "big thing" will be regenerative braking that charges a "helper" battery for steep climbs. You'll technically still be "earning" all your energy on the climb, but by recapturing a little of it on the descent you'll significantly extend your ride or improve your ability to deal with a few steep climbs. I would bet on this, although it may be far down the road. When it does come to this, it will blur the lines big time with straight E-bikes and there'll be all kinds of new ßutt-hurt threads and arguments. It will be fun to watch.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    ABS breaking! No more locked wheels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotth72 View Post
    The chain and cog is one of the most efficient drive trains ever developed. Efficiency goes way down when you go to gears.
    The issue with full suspension isn't keeping the chain on, it's unsprung weight. Putting that much weight at the hub makes for one poorly operating suspension.
    That's why a frame-mounted gearbox is a better solution. Like the Pinion designs.

  33. #33
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    Brake modulation isn't all that hard to learn, but ABS is the sort of thing that, once it hits the market, I'm sure it will be very popular. Seems like it would be really hard to make ABS small and light enough, but I bet it's not impossible. 5 years? Maybe.

    And I agree that frame-mounted gearboxes have a lot of potential.

  34. #34
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    Helmet the reads your brainwaves and does the shifting, braking etc..........

    You heard it here first!! :-)

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  35. #35
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    The replacement phrase for "game changer" will be the ultimate game changer. I despise that phrase.
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    This thread makes my head hurt. ABS brakes? Bluetooth brakes?!? Voice-controlled shifting? I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Some of you people are retarded.

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    I think the next thing will be retro racing. It will spawn a new breed of retro bikes with 6-speed rear cassettes and cantilever brakes. They'll last for ever and we'll all wonder how we got duped into replacing $80 chains every year.

  38. #38
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    Take your hurt butt someplace else, GT87. Nobody here cares about your feelings.

  39. #39
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    - Trail markers that can act as navigation (think park hwy marker, part rally racing navigator), hooked up to wireless coms (part google glass, part radio) so you can keep in touch with your riding buddies so you don't have to worry about them falling off the exposure if they're no longer in your sight.

    - Better anti-theft and owner personalization.

    - Connected to the internet, to provide interesting data and improve upon every other new "game changer" in some way.

    - Suspension tuning automatically controlled based on where you are on the trail, being connected to the internet (using data sensed and shared by riders who previously rode the section at your speed) and/or picking up data from the trail markers.

    - Tailwind generator, and crosswind canceller... might be considered in league with e-bikes, but I think a jet of air from a fan or turbine of some sort providing propulsion rather than driving power to the wheel is a bit friendlier. Some of my most fun memorable moments occurred during tailwinds. Crosswinds are sometimes dangerous and canceling them out, also using the jets of air to perhaps help control the bike sort of like space suits during space walks or spacecraft...

    Schwalbe procore is a game changer that should be out any time now.

    Oval rings are gaining acceptance too.

    Shimano has even more electronics coming, including motorized screw-based dropper, instead of air/oil based. Also holding patent on electronically controlled damping.

  40. #40
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    Thanks NWS. Not everyone is going to be correct about their guesses for what the future holds. That doesn't make them "retarded". Completely uncalled for GT87. I think this thread has been fun, I'm glad I created it, but I don't agree with some of the ideas. They are still fun to read and not in any way dumb or unnecessary. Keep them coming, including the jokes. Just try to be friendly, this isn't all that serious after all.

    Anyway, I kind of like the idea of fat bikes, electronic shifting, internally geared hubs, etc. At the least I could see most mountain bikes having wide rims and 3 inch tires in a few years.

  41. #41
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    oh, moar shimz!!1!

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    NWS and GT87 - so butt hurt right now.

    History repeats itself. There will be a push for simplicity and old school hand made steel rigids.

    Either that or bluetooth everything. I'll just ride the bikes I can afford.

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    Yeah, I'll be over here being all butt hurt while you guys are off shifting your gearboxes with your bluetooth mind control.

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    GT87, that was a light hearted comment. My apologies.. I think you might be on to something though.

    Let's stick to the thread. I predict some kind of new material for the metal pieces on the bike to reduce weight, wide tires and more electronics will be more mainstream. Unfortunately for me, mountain biking and electronics mix like water and oil to me. I ride to feel the trail and mechanics of my bike. Its where I go to escape the tech. Maybe I'll fall behind the curve, but it wouldn't be the first time.

  45. #45
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    I say auto electric tuned suspension. A dampening as you go on different trail and times. Kinda like cannondale jykell setup but auto and electronic. But I am guessing suspension will be the next big push. No design but Al whole new level of dampening. The pike and can creek db air and inline set the stage for that and others will follow suit and one up each other.

  46. #46
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    I gotta say, I have to agree with GT87. Not the part about you guys being retarted, but I do hope most of you are wrong. I like the way bikes are right now. Keep the electronics off of them.

    Of course, I think I may have said the same thing about carbon fiber many years ago. And now I ride a T275C, ha!

  47. #47
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    Next Game Changer?

    Wireless shifting sounds great to me. A servo controls the dérailleur quick and easy and self adjusts. You can program different combos. Don't have to worry about the front derail because the program does it for you. Plus no cables to make the bike look messy. Well, except the brakes cables. Add wireless shock adjust and that would be too cool.
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  48. #48
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    I don't think ABS is a good idea. It will just add weight, complexity, and something else to repair. There is also no need because it is not difficult to learn how to control your brakes.
    Formerly Travis Bickle

    Team Robot. "modulation is code for “I suck at brake control.” Here’s a free tip: get better."

  49. #49
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    I think its going to be 28.25 wheel's.


    You know to fill the gap between 27.5 and 29...
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb:skep:

  50. #50
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    I live in San Diego and the game changer here and not good
    at all is a lot of our trails are being closed. I see a future of more
    and more people riding and no place to ride.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis Bickle View Post
    I don't think ABS is a good idea. It will just add weight, complexity, and something else to repair. There is also no need because it is not difficult to learn how to control your brakes.
    All true. But if there's one thing I've learned from the bike industry, it's that an idea doesn't need to have real advantages to be widely adopted. Plenty of people in this industry get their job security from perceived advantages. Whole companies, even.

  52. #52
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    The 31.3759023" wheels will change everything
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  53. #53
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    I apologize for calling anyone retarded. That was completely uncalled for. Most of you guys are not retarded. In the spirit of the thread, I'll play along. In the future, wheels and suspension have become obsolete, with bicycle manufacturers turning to some sort of hover technology instead. Talk about plush. Drive-trains became unnecessary when we ditched the wheels, freeing up bluetooth bandwidth to control the space lasers with your mind. That's right, you're going to need space lasers to ride the urban jungle trails during the zombie apocalypse. I can't wait. These chain drives and wheels are really getting in the way of my flow.

  54. #54
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    I think we are already in the midst of a quiet game change, but it might take a little bit more time to realize: 1x drivetrains. Some new frames (e.g., Transition Smuggler) are being built with no allowance for a front derailleur so the designers can hit particular geo numbers. For the moment this mostly seems to be affecting designs of 29er chainstay lengths, but maybe other numbers in other wheel sizes can reap similar benefits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitechredneck View Post
    I say auto electric tuned suspension. A dampening as you go on different trail and times. Kinda like cannondale jykell setup but auto and electronic. But I am guessing suspension will be the next big push. No design but Al whole new level of dampening. The pike and can creek db air and inline set the stage for that and others will follow suit and one up each other.
    Check out lapierre e:I bikes Ei Shock | Cycles Lapierre

    My lbs has a demo one in stock he's tols me to take for a ride. Says the fork has sensors in It that when the accelerometers detect a bit hit they relax the rear shock and open it to prevent kicking. I'm hoping to pick it up in next day or 2 for a ride. It's a 9 grand bike though. Takes 1/10th of a second to react which is the time it takes for front rear wheel to reach where front wheel was at 36kph

    Prwtty interesting very keen to give it a shot. Not that I'll be able to afford it any time soon Haha

  56. #56
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    I'll play...

    Internal Gearing = too much weight and drag w/o any major benefits. I'm sure it could get lighter and more efficient but it would need to match or be lighter/longer lasting/better than 1x for people to spend the dough. Now that you can get smaller chainrings and larger cassette rings you have all the gears you need. The drivetrain has never been this good. I'm able to get 2 years out of a drive train now with 1x10, and thats with a lot of riding year round.

    Electronics - I think this will take some time. BlueTooth is great for music and mouses but in an an all weather environment I wouldn't want to rely on it. The technology will really need to get a lot more reliable for it to work on mountain bikes. I do like the idea though.

    26" Wheels - It will take a couple of years but folks will realize that 650b isn't perfect for all situations. I expect you'll see the FR/DH and burly AM bikes come back to 26". I don't think 26", 27", or 29" will ever fully go away.

    Droppers - Someone will figure out how to make the dropper lighter, more reliable, and will work better. Don't get me wrong, I can't live without my Lev but it's probably the most flakey part of my mountain bike.

    Fat Bikes - To my surprise you are seeing these pop up all over the place on normal trails. I had the chance to hop on one and they are a ton of fun. A completely different ride. Your already seeing these starting to see them come up to the level of skinny mountain bikes. You'll see more of that until they match what skinny bikes are doing.

    I'm sure other things will pop up but I can't imagine what they'll be. It will be funny to look back on this thread 10 years from now and see how wrong I was
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    Heckler build = $2000

    Intense Build = $6000

    I could have built a $6000 heckler in 2010 that would be much better than your heckler.

    That aside, I have demod a T275C with a 160mm pike and it is an awesome bike. However, I didn't find it that much faster than my Heckler on the descents but I did feel it was easier to tackle harder lines so more challenging terrain is where it would shine. I would say the T275C was much better climbing rocking sections but not long fire roads. The biggest difference between the two IMO is the slackness and stiffness but adding a angleset, offset bushing and 740mm+ bars to the heckler helps with the slackness and aggressiveness. 27.5 rims dont help. The T275C goes full beast mode on the trails though and is a better bike in every way compared to the 2010 generation.


    Quote Originally Posted by JayTee View Post
    Too late! I have a 2010 Heckler and I really like it. However, about 4 weeks ago there was an Intense demo at my local trail and I test rode a new Tracer T275C and instantly fell in love! Honestly it blew my Heckler out of the water. I don't know if has to do with wheel size, geometry, single-pivot vs VPP or what, but the T275 just felt better in every way. Climbing, descending, technical stuff...everything. So much so that I am now an owner of a new Tracer and I wasn't even in the market for a new ride! Yeah, the bikes nowdays are unreal.

    Before the Intense demo....




    And after....



    Actually, there is one thing my old Heckler has over this new bike. Yup....the bottle opener!!

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    Bike safe, durable hydrophobic spray that could be applied to repel water and dirt.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Internal Gearing = too much weight and drag w/o any major benefits. I'm sure it could get lighter and more efficient but it would need to match or be lighter/longer lasting/better than 1x for people to spend the dough. Now that you can get smaller chainrings and larger cassette rings you have all the gears you need. The drivetrain has never been this good. I'm able to get 2 years out of a drive train now with 1x10, and thats with a lot of riding year ...
    There are at least three real benefits to internal gearing. The first is that mud, dirt, and water won't cause extra chain wear and noise, assuming a belt is used. Second, there is no derailleur to rip off or adjust and hanger to bend. Third, the rear wheel can be built much stronger and lighter, because the spoke lacing isn't limited by a cassette. More distance between spoke flanges allows for a stiffer wheel.

  60. #60
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    Shutting the F--- up and riding what you have will be the next game-changer; I'd stake my life on it.
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    Ridiculously enough, it'll be electronic integration of sensors on the bike to fully or partially automate settings for the bike - the E:I stuff as soon on the LaPierre's isn't there yet, but push that tech out a few years, have it all driven by a smartphone, and the moment we have the first XT spillover of a Di2 type drivetrain (in 2x11 most likely) you'll just have two thumbpads with weatherproof buttons that on one side let you cycle through gears (or just run fully automated), the other will let you cycle through fork/shock/dropper post settings (or rely on accelerometers/strain gauges in the crank to take care of those as well). For riders that have $$$ and couldn't care less, these are bikes that would feel endlessly plush yet pedal great in parking lots, and once the settings were sorted out and personalized for hardcore riders would mean really amazing levels of immediate settings control on hardware that isn't that significant from what we already have.
    I can basically picture the shifting being something electronically managed, and that could probably be linked pretty well to stem mounted computer of some sort that would also use that to bias which chainring to use (based on vertical angle of the bike and last 20s of pedaling power input) so that it's always within one user input of the correct gear; using more information already available through an android 4.0 or later setup can further inform that decision making system what behavior to aim for, and the bike will feel eminently more capable across the board for most riders, and for a small percentage it'll require some tweaking to get the desired behavior all the time. The uber-advanced version would be using GPS tags in certain areas where enough riders have used those opportunities to manually update settings (like the GPS based track-setup tunes on nerdy supercars) that right before rock gardens or before steep punchy climbs the bike can automatically adjust itself for riders on adequately trafficked trails.

    Basically, if the bike has a fairly good idea of what it should be doing (can infer if the rider is pedaling in the saddle, pedaling out of the saddle, coasting over bumps, or braking) it can then make fairly informed decisions about what little changes to make (engage a dual-air setting in a fork for climbs and hard pedaling, or drop low-speed compression while coasting and braking to keep the rear more active) to shift it's nature and even relative geometry to be a bike that can be a slightly porky but otherwise tenacious XC rig to a full-on all mountain bomber with minimal rider input.

    The bike-as-a-sensor-suite doesn't sound that sexy on paper, but it actually has pretty impressive upside - even for riders that wouldn't want to use the automated settings, it would mean quick, simple push-button access without heavily ornamented handlebars to the gear selection, fork and shock settings, and dropper post.

  62. #62
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    Apparently, wider hub spacing is part of the future. Boost 148 brings it to the rear of 29ers and is getting support:

    2016 Axle Standards, Part 1: Rear 148mm Thru Axle Coming Fast & It?s About More Than Just Better Wheels

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by richde View Post
    Been tried, didn't work. Also, turning pedaling energy into heat inside of the shock is another waste. A tensioner presents the same problem as derailleurs anyways.



    Only time will tell with suspension travel. I know a few years ago, I'd never have thought that a 6" travel bike could climb so well. Is there a limit? My new "enduro-type bike" already feels like a mini-DH bike with just 2 inches less travel than an actual DH bike, so where do we go from here? It'll be a battle to keep BBs high enough for normal riding, low enough so you don't need a step stool to get on the bike and find somewhere for the rear wheel to go without making the wheelbase too long.

    As long as they can keep them reliable and functional, the more gears the better. The front derailleur, or at least the triple ring setup, is on it's way out, and I support that...so maybe a change to rear hub sizing in order to accommodate more gears on the cassette and add strength to rear wheels.

    Personally, I think we're experiencing a step in mtb evolution right now with the perfect storm of small changes that makes the new crop of 650b longer-travel (pick your buzzword/marketing term) enduro/trail/all mountain bikes possible. If you (anyone) have an opportunity to demo one, do it. But try not to fall in love.
    Lenz has a proto 5 inch travel single speed. http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/id...l#post11485229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotth72 View Post
    The chain and cog is one of the most efficient drive trains ever developed. Efficiency goes way down when you go to gears.
    The issue with full suspension isn't keeping the chain on, it's unsprung weight. Putting that much weight at the hub makes for one poorly operating suspension.
    It will be interesting to see if Pinion goes anywhere. They are releasing some lighter gearboxes this year which eliminates the heavy hub issue and puts most of the weight at the lowest point on the bike.
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  65. #65
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    Next Game Changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    It will be interesting to see if Pinion goes anywhere. They are releasing some lighter gearboxes this year which eliminates the heavy hub issue and puts most of the weight at the lowest point on the bike.
    Agreed.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    Agreed.
    Need more frame builders willing to make frames. Looked into a Nicolai but it was too rich for my blood and couldn't get it with the new lighter boxes yet.
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  67. #67
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    Carbon frames with pre-installed Invisiframe or Frameskin

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    The next big thing that will actually be successful will have to be affordable as well. They already electronics shifting by Shimano but in order to afford it you most likely live in a $1,000,000 house, have a Ferrari as a daily driver, and a Escalade to haul trash with. Bike and component companies should remember most of its customers are $50K a year or less people and can't drop $1,000 for an accessory. For me, once the complete setup of a bike is over $2,500 I'm totally out and looking back. I will only allot so much to this and I'm sure others are like me.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody01 View Post
    The next big thing that will actually be successful will have to be affordable as well. They already electronics shifting by Shimano but in order to afford it you most likely live in a $1,000,000 house, have a Ferrari as a daily driver, and a Escalade to haul trash with. Bike and component companies should remember most of its customers are $50K a year or less people and can't drop $1,000 for an accessory. For me, once the complete setup of a bike is over $2,500 I'm totally out and looking back. I will only allot so much to this and I'm sure others are like me.
    On the other hand, while i can't afford a ferarri or 1,000,000$ house, a 5k mtb every other year is totally within my mediocre budget. It's pretty cool that i can go get a new exotic piece of machinery every other year or so.

    Hah. I've decided I live in 2009 and all my bikes have 26" wheels, 20mm axles, and 2x9. In 5 years i'll be having tedious 27/29 debates and wondering if a CF frame is right for me.



    I mentioned this in another thread, but i think the next big thing should be a massive increase in demand for wheels with offset rims. Now that everyone is running bigger wheels we can all benefit from more balanced spoke tensions and they don't require a new frame or whatever.
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  70. #70
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    how about a magic coating on frame, so frame stay clean no matter how muddy the trail is. can be applied on handlebar, stem, and rim as well, maybe even tires.
    so you don't need to wash your bike after every muddy/rain ride.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    On the other hand, while i can't afford a ferarri or 1,000,000$ house, a 5k mtb every other year is totally within my mediocre budget. It's pretty cool that i can go get a new exotic piece of machinery every other year or so.

    Hah. I've decided I live in 2009 and all my bikes have 26" wheels, 20mm axles, and 2x9. In 5 years i'll be having tedious 27/29 debates and wondering if a CF frame is right for me.



    I mentioned this in another thread, but i think the next big thing should be a massive increase in demand for wheels with offset rims. Now that everyone is running bigger wheels we can all benefit from more balanced spoke tensions and they don't require a new frame or whatever.
    Why? Even NOX Composite' own website sites an increase of 8% strength at $100 + premium. I'll willing to pay for stronger, but it has to have a reasonable cost/benefit ratio.
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  72. #72
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    There already is wireless, electronic shifting, although its not in production yet. SRAM had the Bissell road team on it last year, haven't heard when it would be available and/ or if it would be made into an off road group.
    Ive always talked about " brain wave"shifting and braking, it sounds like a far fetched idea, but I'll bet that sometime in the future, maybe within 10 years, we'll see some type, but probably not availible to the public.

  73. #73
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    Re: Next Game Changer?

    Obviously the next absolute GAME CHANGER is 148 x 12 boost through axles.



  74. #74
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    ^^Indeed. That will probably shave HOURS off my typical DH times.
    Bikes belong in Wilderness areas.:)

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Fat tires on full squish. The fat bike just grips everything so well, and full suspension makes it a viable bike for any condition. Weight is coming way down, and only getting more refined .
    Already a few 4" tire full squish bikes out there. Also, with CF frames and rims, fat bikes are coming in at under 30lb. Salsa is now making a CF version of their FS 4" tire bucksaw.

    You are right, they are getting more refined and I think soon all manufactures will have a line of FS fat bikes and we will see a variety of options for 5" to 6" travel FS fatties around 30lbs.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamtylerdurden View Post
    26" wheel bikes will change the entire game.....again.
    With the fat bike, the 26er, or rather 559, is changing the game. It is the next "big thing" because there is an enormous difference between a 26er with fat 4" or 5" tires vs a 26/27.5/29er with 2" to 2.5" tires. The difference in traction between a 26", 27.5" and a 29er with the same width tire is negligible, but a fat bike more than doubles the traction over those wheel sizes. The main benefit you get from bigger wheel sizes is rollover, but a 26" with 5" tires has better rollover than a 29er, and more than double the traction. Also, a fat frame that can fit 5" tires is very versatile since you can also roll with either the 27.5+ or 29er+ tire size for a more nimble bike that still has benefits of a fatter tire.

    Been test riding bikes this last fall, and the only type of bike that I actually thought had a noticeable difference over anything in my stable were the fat bikes. I still can't tell if I am on a 26" or a 27.5" unless I look at the tire specs. I can obviously tell if I am on a 29er, but don't fell a difference in traction, just rollover and slower steering. When I was demoing bikes, I couldn't believe how many fat bikes shops were carrying all of the sudden. They didn't have anything close to this many fat bikes last year at this time.

    Also, look at the popularity if the fat bike forum on this web site. That should give a good idea of where things are trending.
    Last edited by tahoebeau; 12-21-2014 at 02:02 PM.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebeau View Post
    Already a few 4" tire full squish bikes out there. Also, with CF frames and rims, fat bikes are coming in at under 30lb. Salsa is now making a CF version of their FS 4" tire bucksaw.

    You are right, they are getting more refined and I think soon all manufactures will have a line of FS fat bikes and we will see a variety of options for 5" to 6" travel FS fatties around 30lbs.

    With the fat bike, the 26er, or rather 559, is changing the game. It is the next "big thing" because there is an enormous difference between a 26er with fat 4" or 5" tires vs a 26/27.5/29er with 2" to 2.5" tires. The difference in traction between a 26", 27.5" and a 29er with the same width tire is negligible, but a fat bike more than doubles the traction over those wheel sizes. The main benefit you get from bigger wheel sizes is rollover, but a 26" with 5" tires has better rollover than a 29er, and more than double the traction. Also, a fat frame that can fit 5" tires is very versatile since you can also roll with either the 27.5+ or 29er+ tire size for a more nimble bike that still has benefits of a fatter tire.

    Also, look at the popularity if the fat bike forum on this web site. That should give a good idea of where things are trending.
    I had a chance to demo a Bucksaw from a bike shop in Golden CO and got a really nice 3 hour ride in White Ranch. Refined? Sure if 31-32 pounds is your thing with weight in the wrong spots. I can't see a fat bike replacing a standard mtb any time soon. There is a novelty and I bought a Fatback a few years ago (bud/lou...5" size) but it was painful to do any type of climbing so I sold it. The only time I used it was when it snowed and when the trails were packed and snowy. I do see some merit with the 27.5+ and 29+, as the tire weight is in the 900 gram range, rims lighter, so lugging pounds uphill is minimized.

    There are so many fat bikes at shops because people want to buy them and they are interesting. Just like 29ers were 5 years ago if you recall. Heck, my next door neighbor is a dentist and wants a fat bike to keep up at his ski cabin in Winter Park to ride around town on. So there is demand and people are talking about them.

    To get to the point where they are decently light, you are right carbon wheels really bring the weight down. My buddy has a Borealis Yampa with carbon hoops, XX1, etc and the bike is 22 pounds. But he also spent over $7,000!

    So I agree things are trending to fat bikes in the present, but they are not game changers.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoebeau View Post
    It is the next "big thing" because there is an enormous difference between a 26er with fat 4" or 5" tires vs a 26/27.5/29er with 2" to 2.5" tires. The difference in traction between a 26", 27.5" and a 29er with the same width tire is negligible, but a fat bike more than doubles the traction over those wheel sizes.
    Not in my experience. I'm riding my 5" fat-tired bike full-time right now on the snow, around 24lbs, carbon frame and wheels, blah blah, but it only has "more traction" than my 29er when there's snow on the ground. When it's dry, it doesn't claw up the steep technical stuff any better than my FS 29er, in fact, the FS 29er does much better maintaining traction over the fatbike. The fatbike might "roll" over a bunch of baby-head rocks easier, because of the wider tread, but I find that to be a pretty limited riding condition and pretty much everywhere else, the FS 29er will go on for days past the fat-bike. If you really try to ride the fatbike fast, like you'd be spinning out your top end gear on your 29er if you pedaled-fast, the fatbike does not like to take sharp turns, berms or not, it will keep trying to go straight and you'll have to slow down much earlier/more to make it, that and they constantly try to ride "up" high and over the berms.

    Fabikes are a game changer on our winter trails, no doubt. They way they ride with low pressure is totally unlike how they do the same thing in the summer, due to how snow compresses and absorbs some of the energy/impact. We can ride for days now over terrain that gave us fits before, but in the dry hard terrain, it's simply a way to go slower.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  78. #78
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    Molecular nanotechnology is probably not the next big thing, but possibly will be used somewhere down the line to allow for construction of a frame (and other parts) using a molecular fabricator - like the evolution of a 3D printer, but which builds a part atom by atom. Using carbon atoms you could create one of today's 6" travel bikes which weighs 1 lb instead of 6 lbs. Rims might weigh 40g instead of 400. Personally I'd just like to see someone invent a decent sub-1000g TLR tire that doesn't flat at the 1st sight of a few pointy rocks.

  79. #79
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    I never gave fat bikes much thought before now, but this thread got me wondering... How would a DH bike handle if the design was tweaked to accommodate 4" tires? Would the increased grip offset the increased weight in that discipline as well? Would it change that game?

    I'm not making any predictions about this, but if I was doing DH competitively I'd want to try it, just in case.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    I never gave fat bikes much thought before now, but this thread got me wondering... How would a DH bike handle if the design was tweaked to accommodate 4" tires? Would the increased grip offset the increased weight in that discipline as well? Would it change that game?

    I'm not making any predictions about this, but if I was doing DH competitively I'd want to try it, just in case.
    I'd imagine that the effectively undamped suspension effect of the big tyres would have a negative effect on handling.

  81. #81
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    Wider rims and tires as spillover from Fat bikes.

    Use of hollograms (from other applications) for bike fit, resulting in bikes direct sales across the board, cost of bikes that people complain about drops significantly at the expense of eliminating distributors.

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    I never gave fat bikes much thought before now, but this thread got me wondering... How would a DH bike handle if the design was tweaked to accommodate 4" tires? Would the increased grip offset the increased weight in that discipline as well? Would it change that game?

    I'm not making any predictions about this, but if I was doing DH competitively I'd want to try it, just in case.
    They already had 3.0 tires that were 28.5 tall over 10 years ago with wide rims.
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  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    I never gave fat bikes much thought before now, but this thread got me wondering... How would a DH bike handle if the design was tweaked to accommodate 4" tires? Would the increased grip offset the increased weight in that discipline as well? Would it change that game?

    I'm not making any predictions about this, but if I was doing DH competitively I'd want to try it, just in case.
    Yes, 3.0 was tried, made for crazy heavy wheels, slow acceleration, poor handling, etc. DH bikes would be much, much slower with 4.0 tires.
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    2WD bikes

    Still waiting for 2WD bikes to go mainstream. Companies like Christini produced them in the past, but they never caught on due to weight issues. I am willing to trade a bit of weight for better climbing traction.

    It would also be nice if Shimano or SRAM produced an internal hubset specific to mountain bikes.

  85. #85
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    Funny thing that most forks that sell out are 1 1/8 120mm of less travel and the latest rage is a close ratio 7 speed close ratio drive train. For me less is more, lighter, stronger and less to go wrong. While some other guy is screwing around with his high tech stuff trying to figure out how to make it work I am blowing past having fun. I tried carbon fiber on my race bike and hated it, it was flexing like crazy and super easy to damage. I like my 26" wheels because of less rotating mass, less flex and more wheel/ tire options, simple engineering smaller is lighter and stronger and easier to control. Is 148mm spacing stronger or does it offer a weight advantage is the question I ask myself.

  86. #86
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    dropper post that can raise and drop on its own
    first you get good, than you get fast

  87. #87
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    spokeless wheels using thoroidal magnetic hubs to keep the rim hovering in place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abelfonseca View Post
    spokeless wheels using thoroidal magnetic hubs to keep the rim hovering in place.
    Sounds flexy

  89. #89
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    Next Game Changer?

    I think someone may have touched on it, but what about 3d printers? The ability for the person at home to print thier own replacement parts - or even modify them to make them better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by obs08 View Post
    dropper post that can raise and drop on its own
    Ouch
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillymonkey View Post
    Still waiting for 2WD bikes to go mainstream. Companies like Christini produced them in the past, but they never caught on due to weight issues. I am willing to trade a bit of weight for better climbing traction.

    It would also be nice if Shimano or SRAM produced an internal hubset specific to mountain bikes.
    The issues with a heavy rear hub have been mentioned. I'd rather see a Shimano gear box.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bald dirt bag View Post
    Funny thing that most forks that sell out are 1 1/8 120mm of less travel and the latest rage is a close ratio 7 speed close ratio drive train. For me less is more, lighter, stronger and less to go wrong. While some other guy is screwing around with his high tech stuff trying to figure out how to make it work I am blowing past having fun. I tried carbon fiber on my race bike and hated it, it was flexing like crazy and super easy to damage. I like my 26" wheels because of less rotating mass, less flex and more wheel/ tire options, simple engineering smaller is lighter and stronger and easier to control. Is 148mm spacing stronger or does it offer a weight advantage is the question I ask myself.

    Ever think those 1 1/8 forks sell out because almost none are made?
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  93. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordershy View Post
    Peeps actually RIDING there $10k bikes.
    Everyday bish... Everyday


    And it's "their".
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillymonkey View Post
    Still waiting for 2WD bikes to go mainstream. Companies like Christini produced them in the past, but they never caught on due to weight issues. I am willing to trade a bit of weight for better climbing traction.

    It would also be nice if Shimano or SRAM produced an internal hubset specific to mountain bikes.
    2wd wouldn't help a mountain bike climb the steep stuff. your center of gravity is so high, that when the system is tilted back, all of the weight is on the rear wheel. If you notice your front wheel might lift off slightly when climbing steep, you can see how 2 wd won't help, it'll just "drive" a wheel in the air.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikebowyer View Post
    2wd wouldn't help a mountain bike climb the steep stuff. your center of gravity is so high, that when the system is tilted back, all of the weight is on the rear wheel. If you notice your front wheel might lift off slightly when climbing steep, you can see how 2 wd won't help, it'll just "drive" a wheel in the air.
    But...but... think of all the glorious expense and complication! It'll be fabulous!

  96. #96
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    Next Game Changer?

    I actually do think ABS could be useful so long as it could be light enough and reliable enough to depend on. Think about it: all cars have ABS and many, many motorcycles do too. It's a safety feature that increases performance of your brakes. I was in a car accident where I lost control of the car under hard braking because the rear wheels locked up and caused a spin. Sure, hindsight teaches us that a person can learn to control their braking to avoid a skid, but I bet many accidents on mountain bikes could be prevented by an ABS system just like many car accidents are prevented by ABS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhammer View Post
    I actually do think ABS could be useful so long as it could be light enough and reliable enough to depend on. Think about it: all cars have ABS and many, many motorcycles do too. It's a safety feature that increases performance of your brakes. I was in a car accident where I lost control of the car under hard braking because the rear wheels locked up and caused a spin. Sure, hindsight teaches us that a person can learn to control their braking to avoid a skid, but I bet many accidents on mountain bikes could be prevented by an ABS system just like many car accidents are prevented by ABS.
    You can also avoid mountain bike accidents by avoiding mountain biking. And it is never ever going to be as light and reliable as a non-ABS brake. Seriously, who wrecks a mtb because they accidentally locked there brakes anyway? Beaters, that's who. I can control my brakes with more precision than some computerized gizmo that pulses them for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    ...Seriously, who wrecks a mtb because they accidentally locked there brakes anyway?...
    Umm everybody but you at some point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikebowyer View Post
    Umm everybody but you at some point?
    You got me... but is it really an issue once you learn how to use them? I really feel like I'd have less control with that crap interfering with the braking.

  100. #100
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    I can honestly say I have never crashed from locking a brake up, I have however forgotten to tighten the front wheel when I was about 8 years old and over or undershot jumps many times, hit a few cars ( I hit them not they hit me )' wiped in a half pipe and fun boxes on many occasions, but brake lock up even with 203mm disk has never been a problem LOL


    PS I have to fair though I have been riding motorcycles for all most as long as bicycles and always used F&R brakes as a habit.

  101. #101
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    Next Game Changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    You got me... but is it (brake locking) really an issue once you learn how to use them? I really feel like I'd have less control with that crap interfering with the braking.
    Do you ever notice the ABS on your car? It's an emergency safety feature, not a performance aid.

  102. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikebowyer View Post
    Umm everybody but you at some point?
    I can't ever remember crashing because of locking a brake. No way I'd add that weight for no gain on my bikes.
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  103. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockhammer View Post
    Do you ever notice the ABS on your car? It's an emergency safety feature, not a performance aid.
    Probably a different discussion but threshold braking on a car (i.e. knowing how hard to brake) is better than ABS.

    Edit: Reading comprehension failed me last night, sorry rock.
    Last edited by Mr. 68 Hundred; 12-23-2014 at 06:35 AM.
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  104. #104
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    Next Game Changer?

    The REAL game changer is going to be automated cars. Goodbye shuttles, and hello to a whole new way of looking at potential rides.

  105. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    26" Wheels - It will take a couple of years but folks will realize that 650b isn't perfect for all situations. I expect you'll see the FR/DH and burly AM bikes come back to 26". I don't think 26", 27", or 29" will ever fully go away.
    I think we will start to see some more 26" trail-freeride type bikes that just start ignoring raw speed numbers, and are just pure punk rock awesome. The Commencal Meta Hip Hop is one where I saw the spec sheet and thought exactly that - in a way I wish some of the companies without the big R&D budgets to play chase with the top three started focusing more on this (looking at you Diamondback - stop making 35lb behemoths with comparable capability to a Camber Evo, Fuel, or Trance29 - make a $2000 carbon 26" 140mm travel single pivot bike with respectable parts spec at 27-28lb that rips and is fun despite the numbers instead of aiming for sub-par also-ran bikes).

    I think this may tie in a bit with fatbike stuff - a good, simple light frame/fork that can be ran fat in cold weather/climates, but swap over to cheap readily available 26" wheelsets and 2.2-2.4" tires for outright fun rides to expand the repertoire of a second bike might be a big enough hit. I think we're close to saturation on having tons of really excellent quiver-killer bikes (all mountain bikes with dual air suspension and geometry adjust that are porky XC bikes when monster travel isn't needed) that there might be some more market love for budget fun rigs - either as cost-consious second bikes or actually viable entry level instead of the current crap concoctions of 28mm coil spring forks and 3x7 integral hub nonsense.

    I really think there is a market breakthrough to be had in making the $500-$1500 bikes suck less - a lot of potential mountain bikers are lost because the price gap between retail bikes (which are crap) and actually usable entry level bikes is too big, but coming up anywhere in between there on budget means paying a lot more than big-box retail for a bike that isn't that much better in terms of performance - why aren't there more $750-$800 bikes with solo air forks, hydraulic brakes, and X5/Deore bits in key spots? Where are the $1200 full suspension bikes that aren't still basically unsafe for anybody over 90kg?

  106. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. 68 Hundred View Post
    Probably a different discussion but threshold braking on a car (i.e. knowing how hard to brake) is better than ABS.
    True for a known condition and consistent surface.

    It's a very different ball game when you include variables like split coefficients of friction and very slick roads. A driver can't control each wheel independently like ABS can/does.

    It also depends on if you are looking for safety vs shortest stopping distance, but as you said, different discussion all together.

  107. #107
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    Not a game changer, but I wish a trend would be to see more 165-170 length cranks on mtn bikes. Rare to find such lengths spec'd stock. Also, I notice some try and cheese it by using the same crank arm (same length axle to tip), but offset pedal insert.

  108. #108
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    Self cleaning bikes. "Drive train covered in muddy sand? Worry no more, your bike will self clean whilst you sleep!"

  109. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    The REAL game changer is going to be automated cars. Goodbye shuttles, and hello to a whole new way of looking at potential rides.
    Yes, I can't wait. As a former A&P and automotive tech, I can't wait to get all those systems into cars that most owners poorly maintain. I keep reading how aircraft have these system, problem is the maintenance and redundancy required by Federal law on aircraft is very different than cars.
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  110. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    Sounds flexy
    More like, fluxy...

  111. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by burbskate View Post
    I think someone may have touched on it, but what about 3d printers? The ability for the person at home to print thier own replacement parts - or even modify them to make them better.
    I think it's very unlikely that we'll see 3D printing for metal parts. It takes a LOT of energy to change the shape of metal, and/or to soften metal enough to change its shape easily, and I don't see that changing.

    Thermoplastics, on the other hand, are no problem. So I could see this happening for a few parts.

  112. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by WA-CO View Post
    All shifting, braking, and suspension will be controlled on the fly via the handlebars (or voice command)
    OK so taken a bit out of context...

    I can see (or rather hear) it now: (frantically) "BRAAAAAKE!!!"

  113. #113
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    pre-scratched frames. so you don't go out afraid to scratch your new bike.

  114. #114
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    Next Game Changer?

    Somebody a little higher up on the tread said something about some sort of coating that makes cleaning the bike easier. How about better lubricants for the drivetrain which work better in wet conditions (where I ride) without attracting more gunk? I don't mind riding in the slop and hosing the frame/shock/fork isn't so bad but cleaning the gunk out of my chain and cassette is a hassle I could really do without. Maybe some kind of durable ceramic or polymer coating which the muck washes right out of?

  115. #115
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    Early reviewers have already called this the next game changer... but has anyone here actually ridden it? Is it even available? (Can't find it on the usual online suspects.)
    All bike, all the time

  116. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by evasive View Post
    The REAL game changer is going to be automated cars. Goodbye shuttles, and hello to a whole new way of looking at potential rides.
    I have been thinking about this, too. The driverless car used in combo with the electric assist bike with a soare battery for the bike. You could get multiple runs if the battery were recharging while you rode. You could probably get 5 runs in on Noble, maybe more if no mechanicsl and younstart early enough. Car is waiting at the bottom and the spare battery is charged. This is probably how I will keep riding when I am in my 70s and 80s. No more heart attack climbs, driverless car gets me to the top, electric bike gets me down, driver less car takes me to pub.

  117. #117
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    Trail mapping with fine grain detail, and a directory to index them all. Combine google maps, with pandora-like genome classification, and... maybe a yelp style review/commentary to tag pics, videos, and note things like where to park, when it's crowded, and when the experience is best (ex. during fall or spring, a day after rain).

  118. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikebowyer View Post
    2wd wouldn't help a mountain bike climb the steep stuff. your center of gravity is so high, that when the system is tilted back, all of the weight is on the rear wheel. If you notice your front wheel might lift off slightly when climbing steep, you can see how 2 wd won't help, it'll just "drive" a wheel in the air.
    Negative. I test rode a Christini for a few years back in Pisgah National Forest, North Carolina a few years ago. Climbs there are steep and range from 1,000 ft to 4,000 ft accumulated at a time. The climbing benefits were amazing. I live in Colorado now and ride alot of alpine above 10,000 ft all the way up to 14,000 ft in the summer months. The benefits would be exponential for those times when your sucking air and trying to maintain forward momentum.

    As far as a front tire lifting during a steep climb. Learn to Shift your Weight and put the nose of the saddle where it's the most uncomfortable.

    Key is remembering to turn the two wheeldrive system off when you're going down the mountain. If the front wheel is engaged during drifting it can lead to some spectacular crashes.

    Btw: Christini is/was making a 2wd Fat bike. This has me very interested

  119. #119
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    I've crashed a couple of times because of a locked brake, but let me explain. I used to have Avid XX WC brakes on my Santa Cruz, on two occasions, my rear brake just let go, no warning, nothing, just no rear brake, had to use front brake to stop from getting thrown into the trees( I guess getting thrown over the bars, into the ground is a little better)
    I was pissed, and I let SRAM know, they sent me a set of the XO Trail brakes which I was reluctant to use, in a year and a half, they have been great.
    I know this off the subject, but I gave my .02 in an earlier post.
    Last edited by Hurricane Jeff; 12-29-2014 at 06:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I've crashed a couple of times because of a locked brake, but let me explain. I currently had Avid XX WC brakes on my Santa Cruz, on two occasions, my rear brake just let go, no warning, nothing, just no rear brake, had to use front brake to stop from getting thrown into the trees( I guess getting thrown over the bars, into the ground is a little better)
    I was pissed, and is let SRAM know, they sent me a set of the XO Trail brakes which I was reluctant to use, in a year and a half, they have been great.
    I know this off the subject, but I gave my .02 in an earlier post.
    SRAM can't even make a standard brake that works... complicating things with ABS ought to solve that problem.

  121. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    SRAM can't even make a standard brake that works... complicating things with ABS ought to solve that problem.

    No way, that was Avid, with the new name change to Sram I'm sure the Guides will be amazing.
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  122. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by NWS View Post
    I think it's very unlikely that we'll see 3D printing for metal parts. It takes a LOT of energy to change the shape of metal, and/or to soften metal enough to change its shape easily, and I don't see that changing.

    Thermoplastics, on the other hand, are no problem. So I could see this happening for a few parts.
    Consumer level metal printers are certainly 5+ years off, and even then will be pretty costly, but for $100K or so, you can print structural metal parts right now.

    The rocket bodies that are going to be used for the soft landing of Elon Musk's Dragon space capsule are 3D printed titanium units.

    Edit: Maybe sooner than I thought...

    MatterFab Reveals Their Affordable Metal 3D Printer, ?An Order of Magnitude Cheaper? - 3DPrint.com

    A Sub-$4,000 Metal 3D Printer? - 3D Printing Industry
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  123. #123
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    I was replying to a post about "The ability for the person at home to print thier own replacement parts" but go ahead and take my words out of context if that makes you happy.

    $100k won't buy a metal printer "right now," that's MatterFab's target for their order-of- magnitude cheaper vision. And the kickstarter project for a $4k wonder-machine deserves every bit of the skepticism shown in that article.

    That said, your homeopathy quote made me LOL. :-)

  124. #124
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    gear boxes like the pinion gearbox, inverted forks, 650b+, and mating 26" wheels to small, 650b to medium, 29" to large, wide rims, scwhalbe procore, bluetooth dropper posts, bluetooth shifting - this is where I see mountain biking heading

  125. #125
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    mating 26" wheels to small, 650b to medium, 29" to large - Why??

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    I predict bikes will all be lighter, stronger and more efficient! That's an easy guess. Some unobtainium metal and new carbon fiber process will be developed to achieve this. But I think the big game changer will be that everything from shifting, suspension, braking and adjustable geometry will become electronic and all wired in to the Internet via smart phones. "The Internet of everything!" The characteristic of your bike will be custom mapped to your personal specs and riding preferences. So that when you approach a trail or obstacle your bike will automatically adjust via a GPS feed. Another words your bike will be perfectly dialed for every situation you ride and encounter. I also predict with this new technology that there will be less genre or types of mountainbikes you need as one bike will adjust and cover most or all of your ridding diciplines. The true one bike does it all will be that much more realized.

  127. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane5001 View Post
    mating 26" wheels to small, 650b to medium, 29" to large - Why??
    syntace (most innovative bike company in my opinion) does it with their Liteville bikes, the idea is that 29" is not ideal for somebody 5', so to get an optimal fit, they might equip their bike with 26" rear and 650b front. watch this video it becomes very clear, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKI1...6ksdg&index=45

  128. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radioinactive View Post
    syntace (most innovative bike company in my opinion) does it with their Liteville bikes, the idea is that 29" is not ideal for somebody 5', so to get an optimal fit, they might equip their bike with 26" rear and 650b front. watch this video it becomes very clear...
    Sure, tiny people shouldn't be on a 29er, but average sized people can ride all 3 sizes, which all have different ride characteristics. There are pretty few riders on the WC XC circuit not on 29ers, and not to many on the WC DH side not on 650b, regardless of the stature of the rider.
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  129. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan_speeder View Post
    Sure, tiny people shouldn't be on a 29er, but average sized people can ride all 3 sizes, which all have different ride characteristics. There are pretty few riders on the WC XC circuit not on 29ers, and not to many on the WC DH side not on 650b, regardless of the stature of the rider.
    True, and while I am just 5'4" I fit a 29er just fine with a proper bar/stem combo. Though it did take some different stems and spacer adjustment for a few weeks. I have a custom steel 26er and a 29er, you just simply cannot replace the roll over benefit of the 29er wheels with 26er or 27.5er wheeled bikes. No matter how many people tell me I should be on smaller wheels, the bigger wheels are just way more fun for my trails and xc riding style.

  130. #130
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    My guess is it will be electronics, but weight issues will have to be sorted. Hard to even speculate though!

  131. #131
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    Single chainring set up is a definite game changer - no front dérailleur will allow new frame geometry and the free space on the handlebar is perfect for thumb controlled suspension.

  132. #132
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    My guesses:
    /dropper seatposts integrated in the frame
    /bigger headset diameter(light strong carbon steerers for long travel forks)
    /bigger diameter of the axles (15-20mm rear, 25-30mm front)
    /cassettes with bigger range than 10-42

  133. #133
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    Evolution of the 29+ semi fat bike.
    I can see bikes like the Surly Krampus evolving into full-sus, longer travel bikes that are light enough and just steamroll everything.

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    Now I remember why I don't visit forums very often. I'll be out on my bike if anyone needs me....

  135. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by shredz777 View Post
    Now I remember why I don't visit forums very often. I'll be out on my bike if anyone needs me....
    Quality post would read again.
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  136. #136
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    Cool-blue Rhythm

    The Salsa Bucksaw,, Full squish fat bikes are here now,, and getting lighter wheels under them is happening....

    Shimano or Sram one has a new side mounted front derailleur out now that will be out of the way of the back tire, cables come out the front also....

    Trek is doing 148mm axle spacing an claiming that their 29er wheels can now be as stiff as a 26er's because of this.
    They simply moved, spaced the front rings out 5mm to comp for this.
    Stiffer affordable 29er wheel sets should be a biggie for the big wheel rider...

    I don't consider the above to be just bells and whistles like so many things I see...

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  137. #137
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    Idea!

    The way forward is to change to thinking about wheel size and go with a new wheel size setup

    650b Front and 29"er Rear

    Yes it works great! fast turning and good climbing


    Kiwi Pete


    ..

  138. #138
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    Moving the gear changes to the bb, leaving the rear single ring reducing unsprung weight and maintenance. Electric shifting will make it possible.

  139. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by taletotell View Post
    Moving the gear changes to the bb, leaving the rear single ring reducing unsprung weight and maintenance. Electric shifting will make it possible.
    Why do you need electronic shifting? It's already possible, look at any bike with a Pinion gear box. Problem is the weight, but they are coming out with lighter gear boxes this year.
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  140. #140
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    The problem isn't weight, it's drag. Gearboxes lose about 10% of your energy to drag. Derailleurs lose less than 1% in ideal conditions.
    The electronic shifting cassette could mount on a standard crank and offer 10 gears at wide ranges. It couldn't use a cable because it would get tangled, but a wireless set up would work nicely.
    I want to try a pinion bike, but the physics remain an issue either way.

  141. #141
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    The biggest game changer would be the end of the internet and other social media forcing people to actually ride instead of endlessly posting about riding. No more pictures either so people had to use their imagination. Its makes you wonder what wheel size, gearing, suspension, etc. would rise to the top if decisions were personal and not crowd driven.

  142. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev Bubba View Post
    The biggest game changer would be the end of the internet and other social media forcing people to actually ride instead of endlessly posting about riding. No more pictures either so people had to use their imagination. Its makes you wonder what wheel size, gearing, suspension, etc. would rise to the top if decisions were personal and not crowd driven.
    Also snow would have to stop. Oh, and jobs, family, sickness, and all the other reasons I am not outside riding all the time.

  143. #143
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    I'm predicting more expensive rides...again. And again.

  144. #144
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    650b+ is the future. The writing is on the wall for 650b.

    29" will stay for XC and 650b will be around at the entry level.

  145. #145
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    Hover bikes, like back to the future but a bike instead of board, or even a land speeder like in Star Wars but with pedals YA Know,

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    Quote Originally Posted by bald dirt bag View Post
    Hover bikes, like back to the future but a bike instead of board, or even a land speeder like in Star Wars but with pedals YA Know,
    Come on bro, I already said that one. 'gt87 sure was ahead of his time.'

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  147. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by taletotell View Post
    The problem isn't weight, it's drag. Gearboxes lose about 10% of your energy to drag. Derailleurs lose less than 1% in ideal conditions.
    The electronic shifting cassette could mount on a standard crank and offer 10 gears at wide ranges. It couldn't use a cable because it would get tangled, but a wireless set up would work nicely.
    I want to try a pinion bike, but the physics remain an issue either way.
    I can feel some drag on my Rohloff bike in the lower 7 gears. I can't feel any drag on my Pinion gearboxed Nicolai, the same as with my deraileur equipped bikes. I love Di2 on my roadies and would love to see Pinion bring out an electronic shifting mechanism for their gearbox.

    Weight is an issue. The Rohloff hub is a tank and it's not in a good place to have the weight. The Nicolai Helius AC Pinion is about 1kg heavier than a similarly specced Nicolai Helius AC (no Pinion gearbox).

    Gearboxes should be the way forward for gear systems.

  148. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    I can feel some drag on my Rohloff bike in the lower 7 gears. I can't feel any drag on my Pinion gearboxed Nicolai, the same as with my deraileur equipped bikes. I love Di2 on my roadies and would love to see Pinion bring out an electronic shifting mechanism for their gearbox.

    Weight is an issue. The Rohloff hub is a tank and it's not in a good place to have the weight. The Nicolai Helius AC Pinion is about 1kg heavier than a similarly specced Nicolai Helius AC (no Pinion gearbox).

    Gearboxes should be the way forward for gear systems.
    While they are heavy, that kg from your pinion is right between your feet. It is the same as if you weighed one extra kg. Almost no effect on bike performance. If the resistance isn't really noticeable then yes, I agree its the way forward.

  149. #149
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    Most of the suggestions here seems to address most peoples shortcommings. Sadly this is what companies are focusing on, hence the no real big leaps or strives in technology.
    Electronic shifting? Anyone remember Shimano Airlines, was released about 15 years ago and never really took off. Electronics are more sensitive and complicated to work with. Electronic shifting might work on road bikes, but keep them away mtb's. I fail to see the advantages of electronic shifting other than adding more weight and complexity. Electronics don't do well with abuse, hence why it's not the best idea to implement into the drivetrain.
    Maybe hydraulic shifting?
    What I'd like to see is remotely inflating/deflating tyres via a toggle or twist switch on the hbar, with a small display or guage mounted in a discreet location.
    I'd like to see internal geared hubs developed further.
    Heated grips developed further, 200 buks is kind of a ripoff.
    Dropper posts built into the frame.

  150. #150
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    The more high tech the industry gets, the more it can potentially become a negative.. I don't want too much input from a computer, for example. Rider involvement is what makes it fun. Anyway, I'm thinking that seatposts will soon be able to drop without the need for pressure..

  151. #151
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    How about the new Treks 12x148mm rear axle making all current 12x142 frames obsolete in 2016?

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    that earlier post made me wonder - how long until manufacturers integrate a dropper seatpost into the frame? It just needs a full-height adjustment, and a way to access/service the internals.

  153. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    How about the new Treks 12x148mm rear axle making all current 12x142 frames obsolete in 2016?
    The mystery about that one to me is why not just adapt a 15x150mm axle (already developed and in rugged versions for fatbikes) and just use that? Seems that 15mm is the TA size that companies have already settled on for the front, so that probably should work for the rear - it's not like the 150mm thru-axles wouldn't take an XD driver, and it should be simpler to have companies like Stan's start speccing more dished spoke offsets (at least for the back) in the wheels for the 29er BST rim sets.

    That said, whichever between the 12x148 BOOST or 15x150mm fatty hub becomes a new de-facto standard and some slightly more stiffness oriented rim adjustments are made on at least nicer stuff, then that will bring the performance-for-budget 29er wheelsets in line with the budget 650B wheelsets for performance, and make the uber-gucci carbon rimsets really impressively light. At the price point where the Ibis 941's would come in a full wheel build like that, I'd consider really ponying up for a high end wheel set - until then a decent 25mm wheelset tensioned correctly rocks hard enough for my uses.

    I'd still argue that falls under gradual evolution on the performance spectrum, not so much a game changer.


    An integral dropper would be sick, but setting the proper seat height would be challenging to make an actual weight and/or manufacturing cost savings over the existing setup - better outright droppers (e.g. one that can self-drop, and can run presets OR manual infinite adjustment) are going to do more, and while that technology is evolving an integral and likely proprietary version won't be as attractive.

  154. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Most of the suggestions here seems to address most peoples shortcommings. Sadly this is what companies are focusing on, hence the no real big leaps or strives in technology.
    Electronic shifting? Anyone remember Shimano Airlines, was released about 15 years ago and never really took off. Electronics are more sensitive and complicated to work with. Electronic shifting might work on road bikes, but keep them away mtb's. I fail to see the advantages of electronic shifting other than adding more weight and complexity. Electronics don't do well with abuse, hence why it's not the best idea to implement into the drivetrain.
    Maybe hydraulic shifting?
    What I'd like to see is remotely inflating/deflating tyres via a toggle or twist switch on the hbar, with a small display or guage mounted in a discreet location.
    I'd like to see internal geared hubs developed further.
    Heated grips developed further, 200 buks is kind of a ripoff.
    Dropper posts built into the frame.
    Electronic shifting seems to do alright in cyclocross races too. Some of those get pretty muddy.

    Built in dropper posts would make warranty repairs fun. Disassemble the whole bike to return the frame and post. I can't see it ever happening.

  155. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    Electronic shifting seems to do alright in cyclocross races too. Some of those get pretty muddy.

    Built in dropper posts would make warranty repairs fun. Disassemble the whole bike to return the frame and post. I can't see it ever happening.
    It's not so much the the mud that renders it useless, more to do with the terrain. Your not going to be jumping, gapping or crashing on a cyclocross like you would on a DH or AM bike. Cyclocross to me means "light off road use". Thats why you see electronics predominantly on road bikes, where the terrain is smooth as a babys butt.

    The dropper would be user accessible. Otherwise how are you meant to service it? The majority of the components would be built into the frame as well as routing, no need to disassemble the bike other than the dropper unit. The rear triangle is held on by bolts and nuts right? Every component is held on by bolts right? So why wouldnt a internal dropper post work?

  156. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    It's not so much the the mud that renders it useless, more to do with the terrain. Your not going to be jumping, gapping or crashing on a cyclocross like you would on a DH or AM bike. Cyclocross to me means "light off road use". Thats why you see electronics predominantly on road bikes, where the terrain is smooth as a babys butt.

    The dropper would be user accessible. Otherwise how are you meant to service it? The majority of the components would be built into the frame as well as routing, no need to disassemble the bike other than the dropper unit. The rear triangle is held on by bolts and nuts right? Every component is held on by bolts right? So why wouldnt a internal dropper post work?
    You know Shimano has released XTR Di2? It'll work fine on mtbs. I've used Dura Ace 7970 and 9070 for a while and ripping expensive mtb derailleurs off will be the only downside I can see.

    What range do you see a dropper post needing if it is to be built into a frame? If the fixed section of a dropper post is adjustable in a frame there isn't any need to have it built in, it's just a regular dropper post.

  157. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    You know Shimano has released XTR Di2? It'll work fine on mtbs. I've used Dura Ace 7970 and 9070 for a while and ripping expensive mtb derailleurs off will be the only downside I can see.

    What range do you see a dropper post needing if it is to be built into a frame? If the fixed section of a dropper post is adjustable in a frame there isn't any need to have it built in, it's just a regular dropper post.
    Can you give me one good reason why electronic shifting on an AM bike is a good idea? What does electronic shifting do that manual shifting doesnt? I can't think of one good reason why I'd want electronic shifting, but I can think of a dozen reasons why I wouldn't want one. Shimano are in business, if they can make money by introducing electronic shifting to mtb, why wouldn't they?
    Manual shifting is set and forget, e shifting will require maintenance, and will require regular battery changes or charging, how is that a good idea? Good luck working with e shifting on the trailside, or running out of battery.

    As for the dropper, it's like what you said in your previous post, you can't see it happening, maybe leave it to those who can.
    You do realize the dropper would not be a product you can bolt onto an existing bike. The bike would have to be designed around it, it's an easy enough task to accomplish, ask any engineer worth his salt.
    I have a feeling it will be the likes of Giant who will be playing around with the idea if not implementing it within the next 2-3 seasons.

  158. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Can you give me one good reason why electronic shifting on an AM bike is a good idea? What does electronic shifting do that manual shifting doesnt? I can't think of one good reason why I'd want electronic shifting, but I can think of a dozen reasons why I wouldn't want one. Shimano are in business, if they can make money by introducing electronic shifting to mtb, why wouldn't they?
    Manual shifting is set and forget, e shifting will require maintenance, and will require regular battery changes or charging, how is that a good idea? Good luck working with e shifting on the trailside, or running out of battery.

    As for the dropper, it's like what you said in your previous post, you can't see it happening, maybe leave it to those who can.
    You do realize the dropper would not be a product you can bolt onto an existing bike. The bike would have to be designed around it, it's an easy enough task to accomplish, ask any engineer worth his salt.
    I have a feeling it will be the likes of Giant who will be playing around with the idea if not implementing it within the next 2-3 seasons.
    Electronic shifting, if it is as reliable as the road Di2, will be perfect every shift. No cable stretching. No mud getting into cables and causing poor shifting. Potentially smaller shifters to unclutter the bars. Cleaner looking bikes with internal shift cable routing being easier as tight bends won't make a difference to shifting. No need to adjust derailleurs once they are set. If people can't remeber to charge the battery on a bike they shouldn't own a mobile phone either. There are plenty of reasons to go electronic for shifting on an mtb. Link it to a good gearbox (not an IGH) like the Pinion and it would be perfect.

    I'm not sure designing a bike around a dropper seat post is that good an idea. Geometry and suspension performance could be compromised. If the integrated dropper post can be removed for servicing why make it integrated? What performance advantages will it offer over current dropper seat post designs?

  159. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    Electronic shifting, if it is as reliable as the road Di2, will be perfect every shift. No cable stretching. No mud getting into cables and causing poor shifting. Potentially smaller shifters to unclutter the bars. Cleaner looking bikes with internal shift cable routing being easier as tight bends won't make a difference to shifting. No need to adjust derailleurs once they are set. If people can't remeber to charge the battery on a bike they shouldn't own a mobile phone either. There are plenty of reasons to go electronic for shifting on an mtb. Link it to a good gearbox (not an IGH) like the Pinion and it would be perfect.

    I'm not sure designing a bike around a dropper seat post is that good an idea. Geometry and suspension performance could be compromised. If the integrated dropper post can be removed for servicing why make it integrated? What performance advantages will it offer over current dropper seat post designs?
    The dropper posts parts that need to raise and lower the post is minimal. I have a kronolog, the bulging bit above the seat post collar can easily be hidden inside the frame. They can probably play around with hydro actuated posts instead of cable, they wont be so constricted with space. Cable actuated disc brakes are ok, but I prefer hydro, it might be the same case with droppers. If designers have more room to work with then the technology will get better, it's a no brainer. The bikes geo won't change, suspension won't be affected. Current droppers are good, its neither here or there, like mech disc brakes. The remote for my kronolog is not well thought through, requires a lot of finessing alongside brake levers, my remote is not in a great location because it will intefere with the brake lever (clamp). Other makes might play better with brake levers. Bike companies can afford to throw more money towards R&D into these kind of projects than smaller companies.

    As for the e shifting, we'll just agree to disagree.

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    15*150 doean't leave room for current freehubs/cogs/bearings. 12*150 is what ypu're looking for, tehllama.

    Integral dropper posts might be the worst idea yet presented in this thread, right up there with bluetooth brakes. Anybody who thinks it is a good idea obviously hasnt been riding or wrenching on bikes for very long.

  161. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    Integral dropper posts might be the worst idea yet presented in this thread, right up there with bluetooth brakes. Anybody who thinks it is a good idea obviously hasnt been riding or wrenching on bikes for very long.
    Says the person who's only been a member for several months, grow up!

  162. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Says the person who's only been a member for several months, grow up!
    SV11 you need to chill out. People think it's a bad idea, that's okay. If you love the idea keep promoting it. Quit getting so hostile. I'm surprised that peoples responses to you have been void of contentious words after the way you respond to them. Props to people for temper control and patience.

  163. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Says the person who's only been a member for several months, grow up!

    Maybe he was too busy riding and working on bikes? Not everyone signs up on MTBR the moment they start riding.

  164. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    15*150 doean't leave room for current freehubs/cogs/bearings. 12*150 is what ypu're looking for, tehllama.

    Integral dropper posts might be the worst idea yet presented in this thread, right up there with bluetooth brakes. Anybody who thinks it is a good idea obviously hasnt been riding or wrenching on bikes for very long.
    I guess you didn't mean me since I didn't start the idea.
    I'm not saying it can be executed, be reliable and serviceable, but who knows what someone can come up with until they try?

  165. #165
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    Re: Next Game Changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by tehllama View Post
    The mystery about that one to me is why not just adapt a 15x150mm axle (already developed and in rugged versions for fatbikes) and just use that? Seems that 15mm is the TA size that companies have already settled on for the front, so that probably should work for the rear - it's not like the 150mm thru-axles wouldn't take an XD driver, and it should be simpler to have companies like Stan's start speccing more dished spoke offsets (at least for the back) in the wheels for the 29er BST rim sets.

    That said, whichever between the 12x148 BOOST or 15x150mm fatty hub becomes a new de-facto standard and some slightly more stiffness oriented rim adjustments are made on at least nicer stuff, then that will bring the performance-for-budget 29er wheelsets in line with the budget 650B wheelsets for performance, and make the uber-gucci carbon rimsets really impressively light. At the price point where the Ibis 941's would come in a full wheel build like that, I'd consider really ponying up for a high end wheel set - until then a decent 25mm wheelset tensioned correctly rocks hard enough for my uses.

    I'd still argue that falls under gradual evolution on the performance spectrum, not so much a game changer.


    An integral dropper would be sick, but setting the proper seat height would be challenging to make an actual weight and/or manufacturing cost savings over the existing setup - better outright droppers (e.g. one that can self-drop, and can run presets OR manual infinite adjustment) are going to do more, and while that technology is evolving an integral and likely proprietary version won't be as attractive.
    I only wonder how much acceptance the 12x148 has gotten so far.
    Trek just started using it on their 29" bikes and claims other major manufacturers are already on board and will use it soon.
    There is an article on PB about the new Evil bike. Evil explains they decided not to use the 12x148mm axle yet, because of the hub limited availability. But the fact PB asked them about it makes it even more legit.
    I9 and sram already have the 12x148 hub though...
    It looks like its coming and it will make all current frames obsolete in a year or 2.

  166. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnozz View Post
    SV11 you need to chill out. People think it's a bad idea, that's okay. If you love the idea keep promoting it. Quit getting so hostile. I'm surprised that peoples responses to you have been void of contentious words after the way you respond to them. Props to people for temper control and patience.
    What the hell are you on? Everything was going fine until the #[email protected]$$%@ came in disrespecting. Hostile, are you kidding me? Grow a spine for gods sake. No one was hostile until gt87 decided to start being a idiot, people can not like the idea but theres no need to be a dick about it.
    No one besides GT87 said it was a bad idea, so there is no need to lie, it's all there in black and white... plus I don't really give 2 @#%$& what you or he thinks or says. The way I responded to them? If you dish out **** you will get hammered, plain and simple.
    People like you two ride my patience.

    Both of you are new members and need to learn respect!!!!

  167. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Says the person who's only been a member for several months, grow up!
    That's kind of an ironic statement, but whatever. Do you really think that the date that someone joined the forum is any reflection of their experience level? I see you started riding bikes way back in 2011. I heard that 142x12 axles weren't even commonplace way back then in the heyday of mountain biking, in which case I don't even know why you guys bothered riding those antiques.

    You didn't just invent the idea of an integrated seatpost, you misunderstood creative genius. Scott, yeti, and others have built cross country race bikes with them in the past, and they're not uncommon on road bikes. Their popularity has waned (i use the term popular generously) since 2011 so I understand why you've never heard of them. There are a number of drawbacks to an integrated post (dropper or not), and little advantage. If only we could integrate a dropper seatpost in such a fashion that it would be adjustable enough to fit different riders, wouldn't destroy resale value, and could be replaced or swapped out for a lighweight fixed post. Oh yeah, we can... with a regular old boring dropper seatpost... you know, that slides up and down in the frame. It's not a matter of whether new materials or technological innovations can make an integrated post viable, it's about having the sense to recognize practical functional design and not change that for changes sake. But then posers couldn't scream out "lighter, stiffer, more expensive!" in ecstasy as they whack off in the dark corner of their basement next to the furnace, like some kind of lonely cave-dwelling troll-man.

  168. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Says the person who's only been a member for several months, grow up!
    Because I am legitimately confused here, how the hell does post count/being an MTBR member have anything at all to do with your age or mechanical prowess?

    People are allowed to disagree, and because he has fewer imaginary internet post points doesn't mean he has to respect you. It's in bad taste to treat anyone with a lack of respect but I think of all things I'll respect someone for, bout the last one will be "Post count" or "join date" because I truly don't care.
    2015 Santa Cruz Nomad XO1
    2013 Diamondback Mission

  169. #169
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    Re: Next Game Changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    What the hell are you on? Everything was going fine until the #[email protected]$$%@ came in disrespecting. Hostile, are you kidding me? Grow a spine for gods sake. No one was hostile until gt87 decided to start being a idiot, people can not like the idea but theres no need to be a dick about it.
    No one besides GT87 said it was a bad idea, so there is no need to lie, it's all there in black and white... plus I don't really give 2 @#%$& what you or he thinks or says. The way I responded to them? If you dish out **** you will get hammered, plain and simple.
    People like you two ride my patience.

    Both of you are new members and need to learn respect!!!!
    I don't think its a good idea either

  170. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberbob102000 View Post
    Because I am legitimately confused here, how the hell does post count/being an MTBR member have anything at all to do with your age or mechanical prowess?

    People are allowed to disagree, and because he has fewer imaginary internet post points doesn't mean he has to respect you. It's in bad taste to treat anyone with a lack of respect but I think of all things I'll respect someone for, bout the last one will be "Post count" or "join date" because I truly don't care.
    Take a look at what I quoted, you get what you dish out, an eye for an eye. I'm guessing all these new members who are jumping on the bandwagon is the same person or two. Pathetic.

  171. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberbob102000 View Post
    Because I am legitimately confused here, how the hell does post count/being an MTBR member have anything at all to do with your age or mechanical prowess?

    People are allowed to disagree, and because he has fewer imaginary internet post points doesn't mean he has to respect you. It's in bad taste to treat anyone with a lack of respect but I think of all things I'll respect someone for, bout the last one will be "Post count" or "join date" because I truly don't care.
    That's sounds like what someone with only 16 posts would say. Show some respect newb.

  172. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzanova View Post
    I don't think its a good idea either
    And that's fine, criticism is healthy and constructive.
    Normal folk like yourself would leave it at that, others have to disrespect, saying it's the worst idea presented in the thread (he goes out of his way to really **** stir), and further adding that "Anybody who thinks it is a good idea obviously hasnt been riding or wrenching on bikes for very long" is a form of disrespect in my book, if you act like a dikhead you'll be treated like one (present company excluded), and that's when this shyt first started.

    Because of that idea, some half wits assume it relates to my riding experience or mechanical experience, how they got that from that is just screwed up.

  173. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthwestAir View Post
    the santa cruz hecklers from a few years ago had bottle openers built into the frame, near the rear dropout. bring it back!!
    just use your spd pedals, does the trick nicely

  174. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    And that's fine, criticism is healthy and constructive.
    Normal folk like yourself would leave it at that, others have to disrespect, saying it's the worst idea presented in the thread (he goes out of his way to really **** stir), and further adding that "Anybody who thinks it is a good idea obviously hasnt been riding or wrenching on bikes for very long" is a form of disrespect in my book, if you act like a dikhead you'll be treated like one (present company excluded), and that's when this shyt first started.

    Because of that idea, some half wits assume it relates to my riding experience or mechanical experience, how they got that from that is just screwed up.
    I also thought it was one of the worst ideas in this thread but didn't feel compelled to reply. Worst idea does mean worst or bad person. You seemed to have taken that criticism personally.

    The idea you have may turn out to be amazing and a game changer, but don't expect people to agree or hld bck on criticism. Why would anyone care if another person said the idea was the worst? My suggestion was 3d Hollograms for bike fit. You can even call me an idiot for making the suggestion and it won't bother me, it was just a suggestion doesn't prove anything about me, except that I may have had a bad idea--welcome to planet earth.

  175. #175
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    Electronic shifting is a pretty goid idea, it doesnt fit everyones idea of how they like to shift and thats ok.
    As far as an integrated dropper seatpost, I think thats a ridiculous idea. With the current dropper post, what could be easier and more effective for maintaining the post then just unbolting it at the seat collar, removing it and taking it to your work bench to do the required maintenance? Sometimes integration isnt a good thing.
    There are some good ideas out there and some progress being made on others and Im sure in the future we will see a lot of those"why didnt I think of that" upgrades in all facets of the bike, if we like them or not.

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    Next Game Changer?

    5x nice to haves

    1. Indexed fork steerers so that short stems can be aligned perfectly without squinting.

    2. Electronics used for... smart telemetry on suspension (piezo pressure of air cans) and statistical processing of raw signal. e.g. packing down alert.

    3.Alerts for components falling out of normal operating parameters e.g. leaking negative air, excessive friction, knocking from loose/worn bearings.

    4. Connected electronics for logging setup parameters

    5. Ambient temperature corrected damping circuits.

  177. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    I also thought it was one of the worst ideas in this thread but didn't feel compelled to reply. Worst idea does mean worst or bad person. You seemed to have taken that criticism personally..
    Are you thick or just have a reading deficiency. You can't be for real. Get your head out of your ass and read, i mean actually READ what you've quoted from me.
    I guess I can add you to the hafl wit basket, and you made it perfectly clear how you feel with your rep, and now your post?
    My problem lies with disrespecting *******s, not criticism.

  178. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    5x nice to haves

    1. Indexed fork steerers so that short stems can be aligned perfectly without squinting.

    2. Electronics used for... smart telemetry on suspension (piezo pressure of air cans) and statistical processing of raw signal. e.g. packing down alert.

    3.Alerts for components falling out of normal operating parameters e.g. leaking negative air, excessive friction, knocking from loose/worn bearings.

    4. Connected electronics for logging setup parameters

    5. Ambient temperature corrected damping circuits.
    Well, crap. The bike shop will be charging me a $100 just to run a diagnostic to figure out what's wrong with my on-board diagnostic system. I don't want to hate the bike shop guy like I do the car shop guy.

  179. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Are you thick or just have a reading deficiency. You can't be for real. Get your head out of your ass and read, i mean actually READ what you've quoted from me.
    I guess I can add you to the hafl wit basket, and you made it perfectly clear how you feel with your rep, and now your post?
    My problem lies with disrespecting *******s, not criticism.
    Calm down bro. It's like cjsb said- just because your idea was stupid it doesn't make you a bad person. Maybe you just need to go ride a bike and blow off some steam.

  180. #180
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    I didn't read the entire thread.... Sorry if it's been mentioned...
    My idea...
    Wireless dropper. No cables, no hydro.

  181. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    5x nice to haves
    1. Indexed fork steerers so that short stems can be aligned perfectly without squinting.

    2. Electronics used for... smart telemetry on suspension (piezo pressure of air cans) and statistical processing of raw signal. e.g. packing down alert.

    3.Alerts for components falling out of normal operating parameters e.g. leaking negative air, excessive friction, knocking from loose/worn bearings.

    4. Connected electronics for logging setup parameters
    I'd be totally onboard with these, as this is simply more good carryover from aerospace and automotive stuff.
    Indexed fork/steerer setups would be awesome - hell, seatposts could comfortably fall into that same category too. Make it oval/ogival and call it aero, and bike manufacturers could charge more for it. Basically anything on that front would be awesomely positive if executed smartly.

    3) Intrigues me a lot, as it would be obviously pretty handle for a large number of riders, but of trivial value to skilled riders even with a lot of budget, so it would take time to really adopt, although it would be cool if low tire pressure or out-of-expected pressure or even chainline indicators could pop up on beginner-intermediate skill rider intended bikes. This may be a positive benefit of having integrated electronics attached to data logging as much as an intended design goal, but the net result would be pretty awesome.

    Great points, I'm excited to see that despite most of the page getting overran with interweb drama, that a couple cool and applicable ideas are being introduced.

  182. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    What the hell are you on? Everything was going fine until the #[email protected]$$%@ came in disrespecting. Hostile, are you kidding me? Grow a spine for gods sake. No one was hostile until gt87 decided to start being a idiot, people can not like the idea but theres no need to be a dick about it.
    No one besides GT87 said it was a bad idea, so there is no need to lie, it's all there in black and white... plus I don't really give 2 @#%$& what you or he thinks or says. The way I responded to them? If you dish out **** you will get hammered, plain and simple.
    People like you two ride my patience.

    Both of you are new members and need to learn respect!!!!
    It's a horrible idea plain and simple. Some people like the simplicity of a cable operated, others like hydraulic and others prefer a 3 position vs. infinite.
    Ripley LS v3
    OG Ripley v2 handed down to son

  183. #183
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    Next Game Changer?

    Quote Originally Posted by tehllama View Post
    Indexed fork/steerer setups would be awesome - hell, seatposts could comfortably fall into that same category too. Make it oval/ogival and call it aero,
    My first thought was for a recess/channel and the usual sort of plunger/ball indexing housed in the stem. Accuracy might be a challenge without sharp corners and sharp corners and positive location would tend to snap things in a crash. I can totally see the reasons to not have this. You could have a locating dowel for assembly or even a shear pin that could stay in place but would fail in a crash. Two piece crown/steerers would give manufacturers a challenge for the finished assembly to be properly aligned or you could specify a vernier type approach so the mechanic has the last say on assembly. The dowel could be an existing allen key size so you always have one to hand.

    Without getting into the specifics of implementation I still think it would be a great boon.

    The electronics stuff is out there waiting to happen. There's enough energy in the shock system for energy harvesting to provide sufficient power to run some basic sensors and burst transmission over BTLE to a smartphone App.

  184. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11 View Post
    Are you thick or just have a reading deficiency. You can't be for real. Get your head out of your ass and read, i mean actually READ what you've quoted from me.
    I guess I can add you to the hafl wit basket, and you made it perfectly clear how you feel with your rep, and now your post?
    My problem lies with disrespecting *******s, not criticism.
    You can negative rep. Me all day long, doesn't matter to me, might make you feel good about yourself and it seems like you need some therapy or some kinds of assistance with anger or temperment. Or just use the criticism of the idea of a integrated dropper as a chip on your shoulder to go out and prove all the naysayers wrong, tuen it into a positive.

  185. #185
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    Two wheel drive could be interesting. Something like the Christini but more refined to be a bit lighter and more efficient.

  186. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    My first thought was for a recess/channel and the usual sort of plunger/ball indexing housed in the stem. Accuracy might be a challenge without sharp corners and sharp corners and positive location would tend to snap things in a crash. I can totally see the reasons to not have this. You could have a locating dowel for assembly or even a shear pin that could stay in place but would fail in a crash. Two piece crown/steerers would give manufacturers a challenge for the finished assembly to be properly aligned or you could specify a vernier type approach so the mechanic has the last say on assembly. The dowel could be an existing allen key size so you always have one to hand.

    Without getting into the specifics of implementation I still think it would be a great boon.

    The electronics stuff is out there waiting to happen. There's enough energy in the shock system for energy harvesting to provide sufficient power to run some basic sensors and burst transmission over BTLE to a smartphone App.
    I too figured that a single spline (or even lots) would work with that; you're right about giving up some rigidity, but it could be done with either a shallow spline machined into the steerer/seat tube with an index nub on the clamping portion, or even by pressing it against a mandrel to create a small semi-cycloid indent that could be used for the same thing.
    The reason I jumped to non-circular tubing is that it already exists for high end road applications with the justification of aero, but bolting those same parts (especially once composite steerers become more affordable) onto a mountain bike would still be awesome, and since they'd get rolled out on competitive DH bikes first the claims of aero advantage wouldn't even be laughable. The oval shape doesn't have the same induced weak point as splining the tube would (though the strengh of stuff like drag racing axles tells me it can be done solidly, the question is cost/performance ratio), and would probably play nicer with running a conventional lower bearing on the head tube with what amounts to a billet adapter for the upper bearing.

    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    Or just use the criticism of the idea of a integrated dropper as a chip on your shoulder to go out and prove all the naysayers wrong, tuen it into a positive.
    We will probably see an integral dropper tried, the more I think about it the more I realize it's a question of when not if. For it to be any good, it would need to be a 200mm or more version for somebody my size, although in an XS/S frame a 150mm could probably work. The other part to make it effective would be to have user programmable (or some mechanical set screw type arrangement - probably a skippable version of the incremental ones out there) presets to move between so that at minimum a rider seated-max height could be achieved. So, I suspect that somebody might spec an XC oriented bike on sizes that are nudged down to 650B wheels as the first platform to try this on, since taking an existing 150mm setup and making the entire seatpost be a modified off the shelf dropper unit could work, and shave grams for a top end model.

    As far as the switching/activation for the dropper - once that migrates to wireless (something akin to 802.20 for protocol realistically) then external/internal switching becomes less problematic, and making those electronic provided the dropper itself has incremental stop capability means that a separate piece of electronic hardware can manage the presets - et viola, all we need is the right hardware designed into a package and then it's a question of who wants to throw that kind of R&D money at making it work.

  187. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by crank1979 View Post
    I can feel some drag on my Rohloff bike in the lower 7 gears. I can't feel any drag on my Pinion gearboxed Nicolai, the same as with my deraileur equipped bikes. I love Di2 on my roadies and would love to see Pinion bring out an electronic shifting mechanism for their gearbox.

    Weight is an issue. The Rohloff hub is a tank and it's not in a good place to have the weight. The Nicolai Helius AC Pinion is about 1kg heavier than a similarly specced Nicolai Helius AC (no Pinion gearbox).

    Gearboxes should be the way forward for gear systems.
    That is it, I have never seen anything like it. Scrap internal geared hubs, my thoughts have shifted.

  188. #188
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    How much drag would the original RN01 gearbox had? It was literally a derailleur and cassette in a box. I'm actually excited about Di2 trickling down. I had the vagaries of shifting. I have three bikes, SLX, ZEE, Deore and have had XTR and XTR, and yet the Deore shifts in my view, the nicest, very light. Drives me nuts.
    Whereas Di2 will feel the same, all the time. Charging would be a little annoying, however I carry small battery with me everywhere (for my cell phone) in my Camel Bak, golf bag etc. Though useless for Apple!
    I actually think we are in a golden time for bikes, stable, fast, light and big travel bikes that can be ridden up and down at speeds that ten years ago required a DH or XC bike.

  189. #189
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    Edit. I like the idea of indexed steerers as well. No idea how to implement but removes one of those annoying little things that I'm constantly tweaking.

  190. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mudguard25 View Post
    How much drag would the original RN01 gearbox had? It was literally a derailleur and cassette in a box.
    Next Game Changer?-pinion.jpg I don't know about drag, I have never ridden one or ever even heard of the brand until this thread, but quite a bit different than a derailleur and cassette in a box.

  191. #191
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    Next Game Changer?-pinion2.jpgLooks sharp as hell too. This frame or one like it, adjustable 120-150mm travel front and rear, 12x142 rear, 15mm front axles, electronic shifting (gear box only), tapered head tube, 650b, and maybe even an integrated dropper (lol). All coming in at 26lbs. Might have a 10 year bike.

  192. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane5001 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pinion2.jpg 
Views:	173 
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ID:	954533Looks sharp as hell too. This frame or one like it, adjustable 120-150mm travel front and rear, 12x142 rear, 15mm front axles, electronic shifting (gear box only), tapered head tube, 650b, and maybe even an integrated dropper (lol). All coming in at 26lbs. Might have a 10 year bike.
    After doing a fair bit of reading, I hope to hell this is the future of mountain biking. With cassettes getting huge and (comparatively) fragile with 42T cogs bending, warping and eating freehub bodies, and rear derailleurs getting more expensive, and still positionally prone to catastrophic failure, tucking all those bits into a safe, central location would be amazing.

    Everything about that frame is appealing to me.

  193. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane5001 View Post
    I have never ridden one or ever even heard of the brand until this thread, but quite a bit different
    Honda RN01. They had a downhill team about ten years ago.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Next Game Changer?-honda_rn01.jpg  

    Next Game Changer?-honda_rn01-2-.jpg  


  194. #194
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    I'll play the guessing game:
    • Wireless Shifting - Wee shift buttons right by the grips, requiring no lever travel. USB rechargeable shifters and derailleurs - no, wait - DYNAMO charging built into the rotors! BOOM! OR PERHAPS ZAP!
    • Wireless dropper posts - Actuators to bring the post up and down, programmable height settings
    • Gearboxes - Not taking over the industry, but wider appeal, especially in non-racing aspects of cycling where a few % efficiency will mean nothing. So, >95% of the market.
    • Carbon Everything - Aluminum [and aluminium] will be used more and more in motor vehicles [F-150 anyone?], reducing the supply available for bikes enough to make Al and C cost-comparable. 3D printing gets cheap enough to allow for DIY custom lugged carbon frames for hardtails, where you order printed lugs and pre-cut carbon tubes, then glue the shiz together at home [not available in the US because litigation]. Belt drive + carbon cogs and rings.
    • Fatness - "Mountain Bikes" [i.e. XC/AM/TR/FR/EN, you know, bikes you pedal most of the time] will be fat bikes. Fat wheels change, however, with lower profile tires. Instead of 6psi chubby rubber, we get 15 psi and stiffer sidewalls. Carbon everything [see above] keeps the weight reasonable, and the widespread availability of fat forks with more travel and adequate stiffness improves handling dramatically
    • Everything costs more - Increases in mountain bike prices will outpace inflation [at least] 3:1 annually. On the bright side...
    • Your Bike Is Amazing - Whatever you buy in 2020 will make your 2015 "whip" a complete joke [you chump!], or at least that's what the industry will tell you.

  195. #195
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    The main issue with many performance oriented innovations is weight. R&D on bikes is driven by racing, where weight is king. That's why a lot of R&D went into carbon. Having said that, I think there will be more electronics on the bike, especially around the suspension.

    In the drivetrain, we can't go less than one ring in the front, that game is over. Even if they squeeze 12 cogs on the cassette, it's a refinement and not a game changer. I do think that shimano's attempt at 1x is temporary and they will come with a better gear range in the next version, so the current shimano 1x will be obsolete in 5 years. 1x makes oval rings more practical, and it's quite possible that higher end drivetrains of the future will always be oval and 1X out of the box (like X7/Deore and up).
    Electronic drivetrains will certainly happen, but they will not be game changes, and the cable versions will not go away, just because they are outstanding and will most likely be cheaper.

    The only next step in drivetrains is geared drivetrains with belts, but here weight, compatibility with suspension frames, and reduced efficiency will be big roadblocks and maybe a no-go off the bat for SRAM and Shimano.

    There will be something better to handle chain slack, not sure what it is, but the current clutch derailleurs are not the last word.

    Where I think we would see more mainstream adoption is computerized displays and apps that integrate more naturally. Think for example about glasses with display, you can upload a trail map for a place you have never ridden before, and it gives you directions and tips about what's coming and what to do, like a rally co-driver. Then you can hit that blind drop the first time you ever ride it

    And then there is the elephant in the room, the e-bike. Love it or hate it, it's certainly not going away.

  196. #196
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    Another game change (or wishful thinking?) is that younger guys ride mountain bikes and not ride horses, in 20 years those wars will be over.

  197. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane5001 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pinion2.jpg 
Views:	173 
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ID:	954533Looks sharp as hell too. This frame or one like it, adjustable 120-150mm travel front and rear, 12x142 rear, 15mm front axles, electronic shifting (gear box only), tapered head tube, 650b, and maybe even an integrated dropper (lol). All coming in at 26lbs. Might have a 10 year bike.
    When you get a price on the frame- yes it's a 10 year bike. I was seriously looking into one before I bought my Ripley.

    However, currently he is still only using the 1.8 pinion. They have lighter ones coming out this year, so I'd wait. May revisit getting one of his frames once they have the lighter pinions.
    Ripley LS v3
    OG Ripley v2 handed down to son

  198. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane5001 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	pinion2.jpg 
Views:	173 
Size:	48.5 KB 
ID:	954533Looks sharp as hell too. This frame or one like it, adjustable 120-150mm travel front and rear, 12x142 rear, 15mm front axles, electronic shifting (gear box only), tapered head tube, 650b, and maybe even an integrated dropper (lol). All coming in at 26lbs. Might have a 10 year bike.
    Here's mine...


    Electronic shifting and lighter weight would be the changes I'd like. The twist shifter is excellent and easy to use, but after having Di2 on the roadies for a few years I'd like electronic shifting on everything!

  199. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by abelfonseca View Post
    spokeless wheels using thoroidal magnetic hubs to keep the rim hovering in place.
    Quote Originally Posted by GT87 View Post
    Sounds flexy
    No EBikes allowed.................because that MagnaLev wheel has be to powered somehow.
    Crusin' on a fake duck with a Sharks jersey on and a pig's tail in my fork

  200. #200
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    Maybe magnetic suspension? Idk or would that make it heavier. I didn't read through a lot of replys not sure if it was mentioned.

    Or like a folding portable bike would be sweet that would come with straps and once it's folded just wear it like a backpack in really sketchy sections. (Think red bull rampage)

    heated seat, better more comfortable seat gels or a vibrating seat for the lady's =)

    carbon Kevlar?

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