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  1. #1
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    Neck Brace For AM??

    I just bought a full face helmet, partly cause it was only $35 (661 comp on theclymb), but I could see wanting it for some of the stuff I intend on riding this year.


    My question is does wearing a FF helmet necessitate a neck brace???

    Anyone know much about the EVS R4? It's only $100!

  2. #2
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    I wouldn't say that a full-face helmet requires the use of a neck brace, but a neck brace would require the use of a full-face helmet.

    I can't comment on the brace you mentioned, but I've been using a Leatt brace with a Fox Rampage helmet for bike park riding for a few years. I think it's comfortable enough once you get it set-up properly.

    To trail ride with it I think may be overkill, but this is very subjective. If you're both physically and mentally comfortable with it, I say why not give it a try?

  3. #3
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    Please don't be one of those guys who trail rides in full DH gear.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    Please don't be one of those guys who trail rides in full DH gear.
    I don't typically, but some of the trails I ride are certainly considered DH trails, but I'm not getting a DH bike. I do a lot of resort riding, but I don't ride the lift up, I pedal my fat-ass up then come down the same trails others ride Dh bikes on. Sometimes these trails are rocky, rooty and have WAY Too many brake bumps. I typically do fine, but one bad situation could really f-ck me up.

  5. #5
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    If you're doing resort riding, a neck brace is important. Most bike parks trails are pretty fast and chunky these days.

    I just chuckle when I show up for XC rides and there's guys geared up for full DH.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    Please don't be one of those guys who trail rides in full DH gear.
    I hear this often, and it kinds bothers me. No offense meant at all, but if it keeps a person safe, and they feel more comfortable with all the gear on, I say let them do it. It doesn't hurt anyone. A person riding trails may look like a gaper if they have a full pressure suit, neck brace, ff helmet, etc. So let's say they want to avoid that stigma, so they leave their extra gear at home. They ride some easy trails with only the essentials. If they have a silly fall (which can and does happen) that injures them, I'd bet that looking like a gaper would sound like a pretty good idea in that moment. I'd personally rather look like a gaper and keep riding, than be stylish and run unnecessary risk of taking myself off the bike.

    So, to the OP, ride with whatever gear you feel is going to keep you safe and having fun. Whether that is a little or a lot, it doesn't matter.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Neck Brace For AM??

    I have had 2 neck fractures while wearing a fullface, but not while also wearing my Leatt. They are a set in my mind due to the extra twisting forces a Fullface adds.

    I'm also with the no fullface unless you are riding on a closed course race, 1 way DH only trail, or it truly is gnarly enough to warrant it (as in might crash hard at any speed), and finally if you have a medical condition.

    Reason being is 2 fold. First, it gives other trail users a negative view of our sport as overly dangerous. Second, if you feel you need that equipment on a 2 way public trail then every hiker or other rider going the other way would need it as well to keep safe from you. You should ride in control for your skills on said trails. Accidents happen, but most are due to stupidity...even most of mine

    Also, anyone who says they can hear as well with a fullface is full of it, just like head phone users. I have never met anyone that doesn't get more tunnel visioned with a fullface on.

    Sorry D, I just can't agree with you on this one.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler View Post

    Sorry D, I just can't agree with you on this one.
    no worries at all JG. I can accept contrary opinions, and I see your points. My reasons for being ok with FF helmets anywhere are due to the fact that most of my wrecks that have injured me were slow speed, odd falls on things like Shoreline. Embarrassing, I know. And for some reason, I always seem to land on my mouth, no matter what direction the fall begins. I just try to offset the 'intimidation of other trail users' factor by being as polite as I can and keeping the speed in check. I yield when I don't have to, and I've only gotten attitudey once. Completely lost it at the entire Kuhl mtb team (who deserved a lot worse than I gave them), but I digress. That's another rant for another time. If I want to charge, I'll go somewhere appropriate, like Maple Hollow or DV. But I still will wear my FF from time to time on the easy stuff, purely for self preservation.
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  9. #9
    Axe
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    Please don't be one of those guys who trail rides in full DH gear.
    Why not? Does it bother or affect you in any way?

    The only reason I do not wear all the gear all the time is weight and heat. Certainly not because somebody may consider it not stylish enough.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Why not? Does it bother or affect you in any way?

    The only reason I do not wear all the gear all the time is weight and heat. Certainly not because somebody may consider it not stylish enough.
    No. I just think its silly. I equate it to driving to work with a racing helmet on or shoveling snow with an avalanche beacon.

    If you disagree, that's fine - to each his own.
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  11. #11
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    If you want to wear a neck brace for trail riding, you are my hero. Way too warm to be riding around in!

    I still have a tough time getting used to a Leatt when riding motocross, I would not want one on a bicycle, period. They DO restrict your motion (that is the point), and cycling, I would not be able to get comfortable using one.

    Wearing a full face helmet downhill I would think is a very very wise decision. Neck braces however are not needed with a full face helmet. As stated earlier though, you DO need a full face helmet to use a neck brace.

    If you want to get a neck brace, DO NOT BUY ONE WITHOUT TRYING IT ON.
    Again, for moto, I have a HJC SPX helmet. I was going to be picking up a Shoei VFX-R. I tried on a Leatt, an Atlas, and an Alpinestars brace. The Leatt is the only one that I had good range of motion, did not chaffe my back and chest (Atlas had rubber "feet" to hold it in place), and felt like it actually was properly protective. Now, after all of this, I tried on a Shoei helmet like I was going to be purchasing here, and the Leatt definitely felt the best with that helmet. I have no idea how full face bicycle helmets are designed in regards to moto helmets, but that is something to consider.

    Also consider - a neck brace can and WILL snap your collarbone in a crash. Not every crash, but it will (and is designed) to transfer the a lot of the energy from an impact into your collarbone. Some crashes that are not even "worthy" of the neck braces still end of with collarbone breaks.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    No. I just think its silly. I equate it to driving to work with a racing helmet on or shoveling snow with an avalanche beacon.
    Now that is an utterly silly analogy.

    Plenty of "easy" XC trails with very high consequence falls. Was riding one like that on Saturday, thinking that if I lose it for some reason, I will end up 30ft below on the rocks.

    And you did not answer the question, does it bother you when somebody else wears more protection than you consider "manly"? And why should he care what you think?

  13. #13
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    Just make sure that you have the correct downhill, single speed, or 29er specific neck brace on. Wouldn't want to appear silly...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Now that is an utterly silly analogy.

    Plenty of "easy" XC trails with very high consequence falls. Was riding one like that on Saturday, thinking that if I lose it for some reason, I will end up 30ft below on the rocks.

    And you did not answer the question, does it bother you when somebody else wears more protection than you consider "manly"? And why should he care what you think?
    Yes it was meant to be silly, that's the point. I have my opinion and you have yours. Let's move on.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Neck Brace For AM??

    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Also consider - a neck brace can and WILL snap your collarbone in a crash. Not every crash, but it will (and is designed) to transfer the a lot of the energy from an impact into your collarbone. Some crashes that are not even "worthy" of the neck braces still end of with collarbone breaks.
    Where did this info come from...my Leatt doesn't even touch my collarbones. It lands squarely on my chest well below my collarbones. It will transfer load, but to hit my collarbones will require my neck to get a LOT shorter than it is today and the brace would likely be broken too.

    I also have no real issues with it bugging me while riding, but that is obviously user dependent and test fitting with your actual helmet in a bike position is key

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatfreeheeler View Post
    Where did this info come from...my Leatt doesn't even touch my collarbones.
    Experience in the motocross world.
    They do not sit directly on the "upper" collarbones, but when the helmets impact the brace, they can put a lot of pressure at the sternum/collarbone junction. Fitting a brace myself, a forward impact puts pressure on the sternum/collarbone junction.
    My dad crashed a while ago as well, and his collarbone break was pretty much right where the Leatt applies pressure on impact.

    I would take a collarbone break over a neck injury any day. I cannot place any of this medically, and I have read official Leatt and rider information regarding the issue. However, I CAN see it causing an injury there. Again though, I would take any bone break over a neck injury, so I am not trying to sway anyone away from a brace.

    I guess my main point is really this - a neck brace is not like a set of knee or elbow pads. It is not like a helmet. Those items absorb and dissipate the energy. A neck brace may dissipate some energy, but it will moreso transfer energy to another, less critial, or stronger area of the body than your neck. That being the spine, sternum, or whatever.

  17. #17
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    Neck Brace For AM??

    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    I would take a collarbone break over a neck injury any day. I cannot place any of this medically, and I have read official Leatt and rider information regarding the issue. However, I CAN see it causing an injury there. Again though, I would take any bone break over a neck injury, so I am not trying to sway anyone away from a brace.
    I do not own a brace yet, but from trying them on it seemed that new bike specific Leatt are quite different - better range of motion. I have previously chosen not to get one as it felt much too restrictive and heavy. I will probably get the new one by summer.

  18. #18
    JXG
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    "it gives other trail users a negative view of our sport as overly dangerous"

    Interesting point. But, it is dangerous. Nothing like the carnage of road biking but mountain bikers are seriously and even fatally injured. Anecdotally, last year one guy broke his neck and another died on trails I ride. I don't know what they were wearing.

    Back in the mid-'90s a few of us started wearing helmets while snowboarding at the local area. Mine prevented serious injuries even though I ride relatively slowly and carefully. There was a larger community effect too:

    - reminding riders and skiers that snow sports have high hazard
    - demonstrating that it is OK to protect yourself, even if it affects your hair-do

    Twenty years later helmets are common on the slopes. Countless injuries have been prevented or reduced and not just among aggressive riders/skiers.

    I wear a full-face helmet, Leatt knee/shin guards, elbow pads, and gloves on every technical trail ride. I am extra-friendly to everyone to compensate a bit for the reduced facial exposure that is so much a part of human communication.

    When I seek out technical obstacles I put on a Fox Titan Sport Jacket with plastic plates. This has prevented injury on "minor" falls at low speed.

    A side effect is showing other riders that protection is OK and maybe something to consider. Still pondering the effect on perceptions of non-riders. But this is a minor issue compared to the injuries I've avoided.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    Also consider - a neck brace can and WILL snap your collarbone in a crash. Not every crash, but it will (and is designed) to transfer the a lot of the energy from an impact into your collarbone. Some crashes that are not even "worthy" of the neck braces still end of with collarbone breaks.
    You haven't tried/seen an Omega then.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    Now that is an utterly silly analogy.
    Agreed
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordieBoy View Post
    You haven't tried/seen an Omega then.
    Not the newer generation, no.

  22. #22
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    The omega x1 is $100 right now.

  23. #23
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    unrooted, i would say do whatever you feel gives you the ability to ride w/ confidence, and don't worry about what others say.

    i wear a FF helmet for trail riding (the old specialized deviant), which has lots of venting, and i don't think anyone would use it for true DH riding. the one time i used it was while riding relatively easy trails where we normally take beginners (china camp if you are familiar w/ norcal). there used to be one marginally technical rock/root garden, and i wasn't paying due attention, and ended up OTB with my face in a rock. thanks to the FF helmet, i kept my teeth in my face. i think it's always the relatively easy stuff that gets you, because you tend to be hyper-vigilant on anything technical or fast.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dth656 View Post
    i think it's always the relatively easy stuff that gets you,
    Absolutely agree in every possible way.
    My one cousin was permanently disabled from motocross, on an only 25' double. He was working on his pro licence when it happened. End of the day, just putzing along, and it sent him over. I was seriously injured September last year over the smallest double on our MX track too. Just wasn't paying attention to my speed, got too slow and cased the rear wheel, sending me over the bars and into a medi-vac chopper for a chest tube and a 4 night stay in the trauma unit!

    When you get too confident or comfortable, THAT is when it bites you. We all get comfortable and confident on the easy stuff.

  25. #25
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    Who care's if you wear full DH stuff on a trail ride. What gets me is the guys wearing full DH gear/pressure suits/etc...then a regular helmet. Never quite understood that one.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by VTSession View Post
    If you're doing resort riding, a neck brace is important. Most bike parks trails are pretty fast and chunky these days.

    I just chuckle when I show up for XC rides and there's guys geared up for full DH.
    Right cause you can't crash bad enough to get hurt XC riding.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Right cause you can't crash bad enough to get hurt XC riding.
    You can crash bad enough to get hurt just walking along.

    It's all about risk management.

  28. #28
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    I could never tell anyone not to wear protection, whether it is a full face helmet, body armour etc. i do not bother with it all personally, but would not what it on my conscience: telling someone they don't need it regardless of what they ride.
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  29. #29
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    uh oh, I guess I'm going to be one of those really ridiculous guys...

    I just got hurt (wrecked and broke some ribs, etc) and I ordered a pressure suit and all the rest of the pads. I currently only have a normal helmet (but am entertaining thoughts of buying full face).

    I got hurt on a single feature on an otherwise very tame trail. but it's specifically this and a couple of other features that I want to practice over and over again until I can totally rip them, and I want to wear extra (full) padding while doing it.

    So there are 3 or 4 of these features that could lead to a worse than normal crash, with lots of fairly mild pedaling in between them.

    I guess I'll look like a dork moving between them, since I think it would be silly to take everything off, put it back on, practice a few times, take everything back off, pedal to the next place, etc.

    I guess if there was a bike park nearby where all the jumpy/crashy stuff was close together I wouldn't have that problem, but there isn't one around here anywhere.

    I guess I'll just think of how my busted ribs and separated shoulder feel as the others ride by snorting and giggling...

  30. #30
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    Some dumbassery going on in this thread so far. If full face helmets give trail users a bad perception of the sport, first of all who cares, but secondly, why wear a helmet at all? If it's so safe that they shouldn't be worried about YOUR safety why not ease their minds and ride in nothing but a speedo?

    Safety gear can make a huge difference between being sore the next day and spending a week in the hospital and 2 months on crutches, or never walking again. I raced MX and bought a $100 pair of riding boots because I thought it was all I would need. A broken ankle, metal plate, screws, wires, down time, rehab, and medical bills later I went out and bought a pair of $500 Sidi boots as they are apparently the best you can own. Cheap insurance in hindsight.

    Two things to keep in mind about neck braces or other safety gear. One, they are intended to protect against certain injuries, and don't do much in others. Neck braces were developed to prevent spinal compression and hyper extension as happens from going over the bars. If you wash out your front tire and fall on your side or go over backwards on a drop they aren't going to do much. Secondly, if the gear inhibits your ability to ride normally beyond a "getting used to it period" it is likely to create more crashes that it has to protect you from.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jg1990 View Post

    Back in the mid-'90s a few of us started wearing helmets while snowboarding at the local area. Mine prevented serious injuries even though I ride relatively slowly and carefully. There was a larger community effect too:

    - reminding riders and skiers that snow sports have high hazard
    - demonstrating that it is OK to protect yourself, even if it affects your hair-do

    Twenty years later helmets are common on the slopes. Countless injuries have been prevented or reduced and not just among aggressive riders/skiers.
    Is this really true? It seems to me that the number of deaths each year at ski resorts has not gone down at all since everybody started wearing helmets. Maybe too many people get a false sense of security and take bigger risks.

    It's my opinion that too many people place too much trust in safety equipment and not skill.

  32. #32
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    who cares about the perception of danger if you need to protect ya neck...someone needs to tell all the neighborhood children to take off those silly ass hats then, cause surely what they're doing isn't as dangerous as what we are doing

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    It's my opinion that too many people place too much trust in safety equipment and not skill.
    They are not a substitute for each other.

    Experienced people get injured just as often. Yes, people with protection do take bigger risks, but is not it exactly the point of getting out there? Have as much fun as one can chew on?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by L8APXR View Post
    uh oh, I guess I'm going to be one of those really ridiculous guys...

    I just got hurt (wrecked and broke some ribs, etc) and I ordered a pressure suit and all the rest of the pads. I currently only have a normal helmet (but am entertaining thoughts of buying full face).
    Take a look at the MET Parachute. It's been redesigned and should be released in July.

    I'll be ordering one as soon as possible. Well ventilate and most importantly, actually passes the ASTM 1952 tests.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwoTone View Post
    Take a look at the MET Parachute. It's been redesigned and should be released in July.

    I'll be ordering one as soon as possible. Well ventilate and most importantly, actually passes the ASTM 1952 tests.
    I will look at it as well, but I think if using a neck brace, I would stick to my current T.H.E T2 (got it on Jenson's sale). Parachute will be instead of one of those "enduro" half lids...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Axe View Post
    I will look at it as well, but I think if using a neck brace, I would stick to my current T.H.E T2 (got it on Jenson's sale). Parachute will be instead of one of those "enduro" half lids...
    I agree, I have a POC DH MIPS FF for lift days with a brace. I was looking at the MET as an everyday helmet for the added protection with minimal weight and cooling impact.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor29 View Post
    Is this really true? It seems to me that the number of deaths each year at ski resorts has not gone down at all since everybody started wearing helmets. Maybe too many people get a false sense of security and take bigger risks.
    The death rates have been pretty steady, you're right. But the recent study published about it did say that it was hard to quantify the increase in risk that the people are taking, so it wasn't included. People go MUCH bigger than they did, and that most certainly adds a more risk of injury or death, regardless of protective gear. In the mid '90s, I was considered pretty hot shi_ when I could land a spin off a 10-foot drop. Nowadays, you've got to do at least a double backflip and thirty seven grabs off the same 10-foot drop and land on a rail to be considered average. But my personal belief is that helmets have greatly reduced the 'little oops fall head injuries' that used to land people in the hospital. We've just found more grandiose ways to injure and kill ourselves, and helmets can only do so much.
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    Unrooted,
    You are the only one that can answer this question.
    My buddy and I shuttle a trail where he straps on a full face, I a light "AM" lid. I have been riding for over 3 decades he is new to the sport. I happen to ride much faster. I think the full face is smart for his skill set. Last time I bailed on this particular trail I cut my nose open while breaking it, loosened up a bunch of teeth, broke some ribs and fingers. I had to buy a new lid. He still looks good with no big scar across his nose and straight teeth and money in his wallet.
    Do what feels best to you and smile at the guys with scared faces, bent noses and crooked teeth.
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  39. #39
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    Here is my take:

    http://forums.mtbr.com/beginners-cor...et-898089.html

    Now that it is in the 70s I have not been wearing the Titan jacket and Leatts. And I am not pushing my abilities on bedrock. I will resume that when temps drop in the fall and the Titan feels comfy.

    I continue to always wear complete Lycra, full gloves, full-face Giro, soft elbow pads, and soft knee/shin pads. I slid off a trail a few weeks ago and the elbow pad ended up in my armpit with no damage to the arm. Rib and shoulder would have benefited from the Titan but I don't wear it on 26 mile backcountry rides.

    When it gets into the 90s I believe that I will still be wearing the basic setup above. For me this is a good compromise between risk level and comfort.

    And I am working on my trackstanding, wheelie, and other skills.

    I think you can guess how much I care what other riders think of my gear and risk level choices

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DethWshBkr View Post
    We all get comfortable and confident on the easy stuff.
    Exactly

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