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  1. #1
    dwt
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    Intersting clips vs. flats article (pink bike)

    Yes, this has been argued and beaten to death a gazillion times, and it comes down to personal choice

    This article on the success of clips in DH racing is, if nothing else, an interesting read. Different pedals = different riding style

    The End of Flat Pedals at World Cup Downhills?
    The End of Flat Pedals at World Cup Downhills? - Pinkbike
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  2. #2
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    Good article. Gotta admit that when I'm weighting the front tire when it really gets tight and gnarly, my feet do slip off of flats, even with heels down. I think flats have that kewlness factor and a lot of AM riders jumped on that ship when they'd be better off with clipless. For FR tho... not a chance, flats are the only way. But competitive DH and BMX are being absolutely OWNED by clipless riders. Food for thought. I have gone back to clipless for my trail/AM bike with no regrets.

    Have FUN!

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  3. #3
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    I was new school before it was old school, and now has become new school again.

    Or, I'm fookin old.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I was new school before it was old school, and now has become new school again.

    Or, I'm fookin old.
    Same here (I think).

  5. #5
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    Clipless just makes sense for AM,more control overall and power when climbing.even in the most extreme tech no effort getting out of them,becomes second nature!

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    Different strokes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by techfersure View Post
    Clipless just makes sense for AM,more control overall and power when climbing.even in the most extreme tech no effort getting out of them,becomes second nature!
    I would say it gives you easier control, not more control.

    Trying new lines or hucking new drops or doubles clipped in is one of the least comfortable situations I find myself in.

  8. #8
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    i guess that settles it. i'll clip back in as soon as i know i'm atleast faster than sam hill.

  9. #9
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    It does make sense.

    It's much easier to ride through a bumpy/rocky section using clipless because you do not have to worry about keeping your feest on the pedals, so you can concentrate on chosing the best line.
    A pessimist is an experienced optimist

  10. #10
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    I ride my DH bike with flats, but have definitely considered moving to clips for racing because of the exact reasons RC mentions in that article. Pedaling efficiency is a lesser concern than keeping my feet on the pedals while monster trucking through chunder.

    One rider mentioned in that article, Josh Bryceland, has been dabbling with clips on certain tracks this year. In the past 2 seasons, he's had an off in 2 separate races because his foot came off the pedal at a very inopportune moment. In both cases, he was definitely in the running for a podium.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pableras View Post
    It does make sense.

    It's much easier to ride through a bumpy/rocky section using clipless because you do not have to worry about keeping your feest on the pedals, so you can concentrate on chosing the best line.
    True, but it does make my butthole pucker when I pull a tabletop off a small jump and my bottom side foot releases because of the twist in my ankle.

  12. #12
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    Clipless hands down will make you a faster and more confident rider.I have been fortunate to be able to ride with pro DH's and have had this discussion many times,and the consensus is that more and more they are turning to clipless.one explanation is that you become more confident staying on and in the bike especially when turning learning to trust your tires and riding with finesse.and when it comes to those tricky rock steeps and such you have much better control with less chance of being bucked or kicked off your pedals.but in the end it is still a personal choice if your not confident in being able to get out of your clips then it is reason enough to ride flats.

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    Read that artical and have been using flats for years. Tried clipless and always end up back to flats. Just bought a new pair of crank bros 5050 3's in black and red

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  14. #14
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    I plan on switching back to clipless pedals when I start my World Cup DH race career in 2013...
    Safe riding,

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  15. #15
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    I just switched to flats after 8 years clipped. I really like the lightning fast dab to save it in a corner gone wrong. Riding my other bike clipped in is plain less fun.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huck Pitueee View Post
    I just switched to flats after 8 years clipped. I really like the lightning fast dab to save it in a corner gone wrong. Riding my other bike clipped in is plain less fun.
    Exactly what I feel! If you can have fun and be confident being clipped in, then good for you.

    It's just WAY more fun being on flats for me.

    Edit: I should add that riding flats are alot less painful also.
    I work on my feet all day and have sore knees etc.. and flats
    allow me to move my feet to different positions on the pedal
    to relieve pressure points on the feet as well as on my knees.
    Also I have bad shoulders so being on flats give me more
    confidence on being able to get off the bike when needed.
    Never had a big problem doing this being clipped in...but just more peace of mind with flats!
    I do ride with a dropper post so that probably make this all possible too!
    Flats work for me!
    Last edited by blcman; 10-05-2012 at 07:50 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by blcman View Post
    Exactly what I feel! If you can have fun and be confident being clipped in, then good for you.

    It's just WAY more fun being on flats for me.
    I've been on clips so long it's sort of the opposite for me. On flats, I'm having to worry about keeping my feet on the pedals in the rough stuff and on jumps, and I realize I don't ever put my feet down anyway, so I don't even derive any benefit from them. I can get my foot down just as fast or faster on clips, the downside of course is getting it back in, flats are marginally faster in that regard. I feel like I'm constantly having to readjust my position on flats to keep my feet where they're supposed to be, and with clipless I don't even have to worry about that.

    I remember out on a ride one time, I was talking to this girl about a technical section of the trail, and she mentioned how she always unclips before that section because she can't make it up and doesn't want to fall, and I was thinking "If I tried to do that section unclipped, I wouldn't be able to make it either" If she just clipped in and went for it, she'd probably make it... I have WAY WAY WAY more fun in my clipless. I'll still use flats occasionally for lift-served downhill, especially if it's wet and sloppy, but my normal riding is desert riding and using flats for rides involving climbing gets annoying to me.
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  18. #18
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    Depends. You want your pedaling skill better, feel more safe ride with flats. Want to have more bike control, more power - clip in.
    I like riding both. More different experiences the better you are

  19. #19
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    I read the article and thought it was interesting. The depth it goes - makes me wonder how much ganja dude has been smoking though. LOL

    And I agree, flats are more fun to ride. When I'm out riding with clipped in riders I still ride everything they do, go all the same places and end up back at the trailhead with a smile on my face.

  20. #20
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    what's that about clippin in for better control? with some wcdhers thrown in...i can't think of another event that showcases this much talent on terrain crazier than wcdh courses and everyone is on flats. for control.

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53119 View Post
    what's that about clippin in for better control? with some wcdhers thrown in...i can't think of another event that showcases this much talent on terrain crazier than wcdh courses and everyone is on flats. for control.

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  22. #22
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by boostin View Post
    I read the article and thought it was interesting. The depth it goes - makes me wonder how much ganja dude has been smoking though. LOL

    And I agree, flats are more fun to ride. When I'm out riding with clipped in riders I still ride everything they do, go all the same places and end up back at the trailhead with a smile on my face.
    makes me wonder how much ganja you smoke keeping up with the "cheaters" on clipless doing everything they do, and end up back at the trailhead with a smile on your face. LOL


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  23. #23
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by blcman View Post

    Edit: I should add that riding flats are alot less painful also.
    I work on my feet all day and have sore knees etc.. and flats
    allow me to move my feet to different positions on the pedal
    to relieve pressure points on the feet as well as on my knees.
    I'm mostly a clipless rider and not too skilled on flats, so forgive me if I'm ignorant. With clipless you can hop, jump, and climb with "upstroke" without pressuring and pushing back on the pedals with your toes. It's cheating, I suppose you could argue. The flat hopping technique sounds painful for the feet to a clipless rider


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  24. #24
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    once you dial in clipless they become second nature. I can't really think of a downside to them. the only time I had an issue with them is when I was 1st using them and loosing speed on climbs

  25. #25
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    I read an interview with some pro who said riding flats can help your technique on rough stuff. That weighting and unweighting of the bike to keep the pedals stuck to your feet thing. After using flats for a few months I'm unweighting over boulder piles or airing over them now. My jumping is getting better from whatever is going on.

  26. #26
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    Touche, but I don't consider riding clips cheating... Different strokes for different folks. Much like the 29 'revolution,' there are positives and negatives to these different options. I'll stay away from the 29er pro vs con in here though. People can't seem to handle adverse opinions without getting heated.

    I ride flats because, well I can. I get to wear regular shoes and hop off my bike and go hike or scramble over rocks, tree's, etc... without a moment of hesitation. If my bike breaks and I have to walk 5 miles... piece of cake. That is very important to me. I grew up on a BMX, street riding and dirt jumping, so I don't worry about picking up my rear wheel on flats - it just happens naturally like my shoes are glued to the pedals. I notice during long climbs or G'd out sketchy descents I can move my feet around on the pedal to get more adjustment of balance and body angles in relation to the bicycle and trail. Like bunnyhopping it's second nature to me.

    I can't really comment on clips cause in 20 years of riding I haven't done more than a handful of rides on them. Once I tried hitting a DJ on a bmx with clips and I tried to throw the bike in mid air. Well I landed still connected to the bike. That was enough for me.

    Fwiw, usually on group rides I am the only 'sucker' who still rides flats. haha

  27. #27
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    Whether or not riding with flats is more fun is completely beside the point of that article.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I'm mostly a clipless rider and not too skilled on flats, so forgive me if I'm ignorant. With clipless you can hop, jump, and climb with "upstroke" without pressuring and pushing back on the pedals with your toes. It's cheating, I suppose you could argue. The flat hopping technique sounds painful for the feet to a clipless rider


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    Check out the bold face type of your reply! Yes you might be ignorant AND not too skilled
    if you can't "hop,jump,and climb" with flats. It might take some practice AND technique to ride flats, but it's very doable.
    Also I don't ride on or with my toes. I use my whole foot..
    But I do need to shift my feet around, and am very capable of doing so, on flats
    to reduce pressure points that riding in a fixed, clipped in position causes me!
    I'm not saying all riders can do this (riding flats), and if you need to be clipped in to beable to ride, then that's Okay.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I was new school before it was old school, and now has become new school again.

    Or, I'm fookin old.
    Old and wise, immune to silly fads (flats)

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by blcman View Post

    Yes you might be ignorant AND not too skilled if you can't "hop,jump,and climb" with flats. It might take some practice AND technique to ride flats, but it's very doable.
    We'll see if I can get it. The pedals I have are cheap, and I ride them with ordinary sneakers. I don't want to spend too much coin only to learn that old dogs can't learn new tricks. I would guess I should start with a good pedal. Help me out with a "best buy". Top of the line would be a waste on me. Thx


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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by blcman View Post
    It might take some practice AND technique to ride flats, but it's very doable.
    Yep, but just because someone rides flats doesn't mean they'll be throwing down at redbull rampage next year

    I spent so much time on my bike as a kid that I never had to "learn how to ride flats" and I think the concept of having to "learn how to ride flats" is overblown, ymmv.

    This pic is from 1987, I was 13 years old then, I'm about 22" off the ground there, thats 1.7" per year, I'm currently 38 so I should be able to bunny hop 64" now, damn, I'm slackin'!


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    We Held our annual "take a kid mtb-ing day" And i switched my clipless to flats for the first time in 2 years. I couldnt do it. I kept slipping off my pedals. on one jump i cam down with no feet planted and would probably be impotent if it wasnt for 5" of rear travel. I love clipless and will probably never ride flats for an XC trail again.

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    What kind of flats? Anything half decent should keep your shoes from slipping in any direction.

  34. #34
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    Wellgo mg-1 are a fair priced, light weight flat pedal. I rode a set for 4 years and while they're missing a few pins and scratched to hell they still spin great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kikoraa View Post
    We Held our annual "take a kid mtb-ing day" And i switched my clipless to flats for the first time in 2 years. I couldnt do it. I kept slipping off my pedals. on one jump i cam down with no feet planted and would probably be impotent if it wasnt for 5" of rear travel. I love clipless and will probably never ride flats for an XC trail again.
    Its cool that you tried flats, but to me it sounds like the clipless is hiding the fact that you are not really movng with the bike. I see the benefits of clipless, but i reckon everyone should go flats once in a while to see just how much they are using that clipless attachment as a crutch for poor technique. Not a cheapshot at you, just a general observation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    Trying new lines or hucking new drops or doubles clipped in is one of the least comfortable situations I find myself in.
    I find that it is a non issue as I always ride clipped in; everything from road to DH. That Pinkbike article made a lot of sense.

  37. #37
    dwt
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    Quote Originally Posted by boostin View Post
    Wellgo mg-1 are a fair priced, light weight flat pedal. I rode a set for 4 years and while they're missing a few pins and scratched to hell they still spin great.
    Thanks for that. I will shop for these and see if my regular shoes stick to them without having to invest in new shoes.

    I'm blown away at how spendy the top flats are, more than most clipless. But the shoes are cheaper. Combined, it appears that a good set of flat pedals and shoes and a set of clipless are about equal.
    Old enough to know better. And old enough not to care. Best age to be.

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    Sour grapes here for me, i almost think it is unfair the pedalling advantage gained from being clipped in, however the argument there is: "then clip in". You can get on the power earlier, pedalling is more efficient, you can pedal over rougher terrain that you couldn't in flats, you don't have to drop the heels and hang off back of bike on steeps, yet i still don't like them.
    I come from a dirt jump BMX background so have always used flats, however i now race some DH and Gravity enduro, i find for DH i prefer flats, but have been toying with the idea of clipping in for the gravity enduro, i feel like to get a decent result i have to clip in.
    My reason for not like being clipped in is that i do not like the feel, i do not seem to get the same feedback from what the bike is doing under my feet, i tend not to take my feet off the pedals much when racing unless its really loose and wet, so its not about that for me, just don't like the feel of clipless & dont feel as confident to push.
    I disagree about them making you a better rider, you can do the same thing riding in flats by concentrating on not taking a foot off the pedals
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    Quote Originally Posted by boostin View Post
    Wellgo mg-1 are a fair priced, light weight flat pedal. I rode a set for 4 years and while they're missing a few pins and scratched to hell they still spin great.
    I'll echo this! I've had a Pair on my 'freeride' bike since March 2010 and they have never given me any problem. I've heard rumours on something called the internet that they break easily, but we don't listen to that Mine have had rock strikes, heavy landings (I weigh 12 1/2 stone) that have hurt both ankles and they still run true.

    Plus they weigh 350-370g per pair!!

    Rob.

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    me too

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Byatt View Post
    I'll echo this! I've had a Pair on my 'freeride' bike since March 2010 and they have never given me any problem. I've heard rumours on something called the internet that they break easily, but we don't listen to that Mine have had rock strikes, heavy landings (I weigh 12 1/2 stone) that have hurt both ankles and they still run true.

    Plus they weigh 350-370g per pair!!

    Rob.
    +1 wellgo for mg1's, check ebay for bargains on these. other than one set seizing up on me (after a year) have not had any issues if you smash pins on rocks they will come out, but that's the same with 99% of all pedals
    Wellgo make most pedals for other bike companies anyway
    some people live more in one minute than others do in a year
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhyko View Post
    +1 wellgo for mg1's, check ebay for bargains on these. other than one set seizing up on me (after a year) have not had any issues if you smash pins on rocks they will come out, but that's the same with 99% of all pedals
    Wellgo make most pedals for other bike companies anyway
    Actually I had tedal after about a year, I forgot all about it! One of the bushes had become tight on the axle somehow and just needed re-sizing. No big problem and it's been fine since.

    Rob.

  42. #42
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    I don't see why there has to be any debate. For me it's purely dictated by the trail - if I'm riding tech with the high probability of hitting the eject button then it's flats. For everyday AM trail riding where I need extra power and gap hopping ability then it's my trusty XTR Trails (hands down best clip out there IMO).

    It takes a whopping 60 seconds to swap pedals - I don't see why so many people are clips OR flats - for me the answer is BOTH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    I didn't realize it was a race. Who had the best time?
    i don't know if it was the fastest time but i know sorge had the best time...cuz he won.

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    the only time i felt uneasy with clipless was when i landed a jump faster than i was supposed to and my tires slid out from under me. i rode the bike into the ground and broke a few ribs and clavicle.

    im ok with flats on sketchy stuff. its amazing how much faster you can turn extending your inner leg out, and how the lightning dab is actually an auto automatic survival instinct. i never think of it, it just happens on flats. it never happens when im clipped.

    i like the little blurb on slack ha angles. tis true. i was initially concerned how much my front tire drifts when steering at speed when i first started riding slacker angles. now, i really like it. over correction is less of a problem than before.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by bing! View Post
    the lightning dab is actually an auto automatic survival instinct. i never think of it, it just happens on flats. it never happens when im clipped.
    It happens for me when it needs to when I'm clipped, its surprising how quick you can get your foot out when you need to.

  46. #46
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    I never understood the argument. If you like flats, ride flats, if you like being clipped in, clip in. It's about the ride, not about the argument. I ride flats. Never changed over from my BMX racing days, so I was comfortable and will be faster on flats, but that's just me. I ride with 3 guys who clip in and it has never once been a discussion.

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    I rode clipless from 97 to 2002 while living in CO, SLC, Reno and Vegas. At the time I was quite masterfully skilled....
    Coming back after a 10 year break I decided to give flats a try, going with Azonic 420s. First thing I realized was how bad I was if I wasn't attached to the bike. After 6 months of riding flats (and several nasty pin slash scars later) I am a much better rider and would most likely never go back, but if I did I know my skills would be much improved. I almost gave up on flats but I enjoy them so much more as I am more confident, and I get to wear my Merrell Gore-Tex/Vibram hikers while biking.

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    I wonder how many that tried flats and had a hard time staying on the pedals used a good combination like a Straitline pedal plus a super grippy sole like that found on the Five Ten Freeride shoes?

    Straitline Pedals - Pinkbike

    Five Ten | Freeride

  50. #50
    DLd
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    I was wondering how long it would take for someone to post a link to a James Wilson article. As if a collection of opinions from a guy trying to sell his training program by telling people what they want to hear is the definitive word on the matter. Keep in mind, the source your citing, is a guy with a blog.
    Fall is here. Woo-hoo!

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    The fact is that every professional road, cyclocross and XC mtb racer on the planet uses clipless pedals. Why? Because they don't offer any advantage over flats? Now it appears that pro DH mtb racers are starting to use them. Conclusion, pro racers use clipless for performance

    But, only a tiny minority of riders are pros. What does that mean for amateurs? There are back and forth arguments on both sides, which are about as useful as political and religious battles. There is no single answer for every rider. The are significant pros and cons for each pedal. Each rider picks his/her pedals, not to mention suspension travel, if any, and for good measure these days, wheel size, according to ability, terrain, recreational or competition, etc.

    End of story


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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    As if a collection of opinions from a guy trying to sell his training program by telling people what they want to hear is the definitive word on the matter. Keep in mind, the source your citing, is a guy with a blog.
    A guy with a blog that is a professional Mtn Bike Coach, working with successful racers like Aaron Gwin (2009, 2010 National DH Champ/ #4 Final World Cup Rankings 2010). He has linked many studies supporting the pedaling myths.

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    there will always be a place for both flats and spUds cuz there are just as many riders, styles, and terrain that cater to one or both. BUT after watchin rampage this weekend i can't imagine being on those ridges and billygoat lines and thinking "yeah, i'm clippin in next time cuz it would be better for me to hold on to these lines".

    it really magnified the point for me that clippin in is for pedaling advantages and not a control advantage. i believe they had 4min to complete their line to the bottom so that's on par with a dh course. i realize these guys are in the less than the 1% off the mtb community but they make a good case for me. anyway..ride whatever..
    Last edited by 53119; 10-09-2012 at 09:16 AM.

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    Racers need to stay locked to the pedals because loosing contact results in a loss of precious time needed to win. This advantage doesn't apply to recreational riding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    I was wondering how long it would take for someone to post a link to a James Wilson article. As if a collection of opinions from a guy trying to sell his training program by telling people what they want to hear is the definitive word on the matter. Keep in mind, the source your citing, is a guy with a blog.
    Do I really have to explain why that collection of opinions might be of interest to people reading this thread (that's filled with personal opinions to begin with), whether they're written down in a book, on a napkin or on a blog?

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    What Does the Research Say?

    The truth is that you should be able to ride a bike relatively well with some good flat pedals and shoes. In one study (Mornieux et al. Int J Sports Med 2008; 29:817-822) it was found that the pedal stroke of elite cyclists looked the same on flats and clipless pedals.

    Another study (Korff et al. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007; 39:991-995) showed that pedaling in circles or pulling through the top of the pedal stroke resulted in a less powerful and efficient pedal stroke – in other words, there is no “magical” pedal stroke that is only available by attaching your foot to the pedals.

  57. #57
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    If you are racing anything other than DH, DS, or 4X, (and the pinkbike article makes a pretty good argument about those disciplines too) then you are leaving performance on the table if you're not using clipless. If you're not racing, then don't worry about it. Ride what you want. Giving up a little performance may be a worthy trade off to you for the increase in confidence. The problem arises when people try to justify using flats by saying they make just as much power, or that clipless don't offer a performance advantage, to try to justify their choice to use flats. Then you get people like me, who don't want to leave this misinformation unchallenged and these long threads get started... Ride whatever you want, but make an informed decision and realize you're making a trade-off in weight and power to gain increased confidence. And that's alright. Do what's right for you, but don't try to pretend there isn't a trade-off involved.

    This argument reminds me of some 29'er evangelists who refuse to acknowledge that the bigger wheels are slower to accelerate. Sure there are benefits too, but there's a trade-off. There's no need to ignore it. Acknowledge it, and get comfortable with the fact that almost every choice you make is a trade-off for something else. That's life.

    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    The fact is that every professional road, cyclocross and XC mtb racer on the planet uses clipless pedals. Why? Because they don't offer any advantage over flats? Now it appears that pro DH mtb racers are starting to use them. Conclusion, pro racers use clipless for performance

    But, only a tiny minority of riders are pros. What does that mean for amateurs? There are back and forth arguments on both sides, which are about as useful as political and religious battles. There is no single answer for every rider. The are significant pros and cons for each pedal. Each rider picks his/her pedals, not to mention suspension travel, if any, and for good measure these days, wheel size, according to ability, terrain, recreational or competition, etc.

    End of story


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    I just wish someone made XC specific shoes for flats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 53119 View Post
    there will always be a place for both flats and spUds cuz there are just as many riders, styles, and terrain that cater to one or both. BUT after watchin rampage this weekend i can't imagine being on those ridges and billygoat lines and thinking "yeah, i'm clippin in next time cuz it would be better for me to hold on to these lines".

    it really magnified the point for me that clippin in is for pedaling advantages and not a control advantage. i believe they had 4min to complete their line to the bottom so that's on par with a dh course. i realize these guys are in the less than the 1% off the mtb community but they make a good case for me. anyway..ride whatever..
    I don't think it was for a control advantage. Sure, control is important, and there's definitely a substantial amount of it required for that type of riding, but they're using flats because of the overriding importance of being able to bail easily on those huge lines they're taking. Flats have an advantage for being able to bail and get away from a bike when you're in the air. Clipless have an advantage for power and keeping you attached to your bike. That is obviously not their biggest concern when doing those lines. Those guys didn't need more power, the needed just the correct amount of power, and massive cajones... and mad skillz... Besides, doing no-footers, and other slopestyle type tricks is definitely a PIA with clipless, Flats have a clear advantage for slopestyle competitions.

    Anyway, the topic of this thread was about C vs F in regards to racing, so this is irrelevant.
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  60. #60
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    These threads always get out of hand, don't they?
    Last edited by DLd; 10-09-2012 at 09:51 PM.
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    Clip less enables more power to be generated in short bursts - exactly what is needed in DH. It makes sense. I'm most interested to see if the injury rate among the athletes goes up, stays flat or decreases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    Probably not that much if you are riding on flat surface. But when pedaling on a rough surface, not needing to concentrate if your feet are going to stay on optimal place on the pedals, is in my opinion quite big pedaling advantage...

    Combine this with full power acceleration from start gate, or flat section between rock gardens, etc...

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    Dude, my troll meter just exploded into a million pieces: flat pedals, Lycra shorts, full carbon, back flips. He should be dead.
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  65. #65
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    That was awesome.

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  66. #66
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    Exactly. There are some performance advantages, but if you're not racing, use whatever you're comfortable with, or whatever makes you happy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DLd View Post
    ...but if you're not racing...

    Well, the whole point of this pinkbike article kinda was RACING, Worldcup downhill racing...

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    Personally, I think it takes more skill to ride flats than clipped in. I envy you guys with BMX backgrounds who know how to (IMO) "properly" loft your bikes. I am bound to the clipped in "cheat" technique. Sure, I can kinda hop properly with flats on the street, but as soon as I get on the trails my instincts take over and I try to lift with my feet.....which often results in chewed up shins or calves.

    I keep treatening to spend a year or more riding flats until I develop proper technique. But in the end I don't get to ride enough as it is and I just stick with clipless to maximize the fun.

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    From the article -

    I think a correlation between clipped-in riders, modern frame geometry and a forward riding position can be made.
    Correlation is not causation.

    Without beating up the concept, it is worth mentioning that people pedal faster clipped in.
    How much faster? At what RPM? Application to DH racing? Source?

    I have no doubt that flat pedals will continue win some races....
    If clipless are instrumental in winning DH races why would flat pedals continue to win?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    If clipless are instrumental in winning DH races why would flat pedals continue to win?
    People win races, not pedals.

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    I pedal both. I switch around every few weeks. I do enjoy my sketchy tech rides better with flats. I find my tech abilities with clipless get better after riding flats. I ride faster (according to my riding buddies) on clipless. A good 10-15% better, supposedly.

    But I don't ride to be fast, all the time. I put on my clipless to keep up with stronger riders. I put on my flats when I wanna just have fun, do tail whips and drop stuff Ive never done before.

    Riding down really rocky gnarly unfamiliar stuff is where my flats really shine. Ramming through a rock garden at full speed is a mind phuck in clips. Surprising a fellow rider on the climbs when I switch to clipless is a trip too

    I love both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verttii View Post
    Probably not that much if you are riding on flat surface. But when pedaling on a rough surface, not needing to concentrate if your feet are going to stay on optimal place on the pedals, is in my opinion quite big pedaling advantage...
    After a few weeks with flat pedals you don't need to concentrate anymore, your feet go to the right place and adopt the correct positions by instinct. You don't just jump to flat pedals and start using them properly, there's a learning curve. The same thing with people who say they tried clipless pedals and where afraid of being clipped in. You need to get used to it and learn.

    Also the same thing with parts quality. Bad quality flat pedals and shoes suck just as much as bad clipless pedals and shoes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post

    Also the same thing with parts quality. Bad quality flat pedals and shoes suck just as much as bad clipless pedals and shoes
    As a flat pedal newbie, I'm blown away at the price of good flat pedals. New pedals and shoes will be a hefty investment- much more than I had figured. Can I get away with pedals only or do I need fiveten shoes as well?





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  75. #75
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    I bought a pair of Teva Links for 110.00 and they kick ass. Before that I always wore light hikers with a flat(er) bottom or straight skate shoes.

    The ideal mtb flat shoe is a hiker upper and skate lower, with good ankle support, like a mid-top, IMO.

    I really like my Tevas
    Last edited by boostin; 10-10-2012 at 04:24 PM.

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    You can buy 5.10 stealth rubber and have a shoe guy put it on whatever shoe you want.
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    I bought a set of Redline pedals for $25 and they have been great. Borrowed 5050s for a week but I prefer the Redline.

    Five Ten or Teva. I plan on switching from Teva to Five Ten because I'd like more grip.

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    Teva Links are 68 bucks on Amazon. I got mine there, but for a higher price a year ago.

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    Best of Both Worlds




    Good retention on super bumpy high speed rock gardens - even when riding rigid.
    Pedaling efficiency.
    Lotsa float.
    Easy release with a flick of the foot.

    What more could you want?

    -F
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  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by StreamRider View Post
    I bought a set of Redline pedals for $25 and they have been great. Borrowed 5050s for a week but I prefer the Redline
    I checked out Redline on eBay. Glad to see I don't have to spend over $100 removable pins.

    Also looked at Wellgo MG1, then saw this way cheap alloy Wellgo on Danscomp. Is it junk?


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    No, Wellgo is good stuff. I think you have to drill or otherwise ghetto the plastic cup to get to the bearings for maintenance, but for that price you might as well get a new pair when the time comes. Alternatively, get the V12 that's still pretty damn cheap. Grip shouldn't be a problem with either.
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    I'm going to run clipless on my left foot a flats on my right, then I'll be cool with both sides of the isle.......oh and maybe it should be with a 650B in the rear and a 29er up front...........My road bike has been clipless for 15 years..........my FS is flats, I've tried clipless and really don't like it............
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    Personally, I don't think those Wellgos are good. Flat pedal design saw big improvements in the last few years. Those improvements are the large area and the concave and thin profile. They really change the way a flat pedal work and can be used. On my 8 years of clipless I had a pair of V12 style flats, and not even for a second thought about swapping clipless for that.
    Then I tried the Superstar Nano Thru Pins (large area, 17mm thick and concave) and dumped the clipless pedals

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    Good job!

    You'll receive no debate from me, coming from a Moto background...

    ...I have never had a problem, I run flats on everything!

    Run what ya brung!

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    Fwiw, I run Answer Rove flats on both my bikes currently and have no complaints. I did have to pull one pedal apart and re-grease it to silence a squeak.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ze_Zaskar View Post
    Personally, I don't think those Wellgos are good. Flat pedal design saw big improvements in the last few years. Those improvements are the large area and the concave and thin profile. They really change the way a flat pedal work and can be used.
    I agree, but think that we'll start seeing people copying the Canfields' convex design once others realize how well it works.

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    I'm diggin my HT AE03's. Super thin like the Canfields and I stick like glue with my 5-10's.
    I have no desire to even try clipless based on how many times I have dropped my foot in an emergency evasion.
    Just be sure to pull each pin and lock tight before you ride or you will lose some.

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  88. #88
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    I'm definitely not going to spend a lot on my first decent flats. As newbie that would be a poseur waste of coin anyway. Looking around, I have found brands with adjustable pins, some sealed some not, in the ~$30 range: Free Agent, Stolen, DMR
    How important is sealed for a newb?


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  89. #89
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    sealed pedals are very nice, I would def. go that route if you want them to last a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwt View Post
    I'm definitely not going to spend a lot on my first decent flats.
    Superstar pedals are not that expensive and are among the best ones out there

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    I been going from flats-> clipless -> flats -> clipess and still dont know which one I like
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  92. #92
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    Hahaha.. This threads reads exactly the same as the clips/v flats threads recently....

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