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  1. #1
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    Hope Pro 4 vs DT 350

    I was hoping to get some opinion to guide my choice for a new rear hub between the Pro 4 and the 350

    I understand they are both very good hubs but I would like to choose the quietest. If someone has both could you let me know if the 350 if really quieter ? any great alternative silent I don't know about?

    In the future I might upgrade my frame so I't like something that can be upgraded to through axle if necessary. I think the 350 can do that ? Can the hope do it ?

    In terms of reliability which one has the best bearings in your opinion ?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Hope Pro 4 is a great hub but it is far from quiet. Hopes are some of the noisiest hubs that I have ridden.

  3. #3
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    Hopes are definitely the louder of the two. It's easy to swap axle standards with the Hopes, as well. Simple end cap or axle swap and it's a done deal, plus you have color options if that's your thing. I have a pair of the Pro4 hubs and really like them. Never owned the 350 hubs, though.

  4. #4
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    I've got two bikes on the 350 with the 36T ratchets...and they are pretty quiet. I've seen video of the 54T ratchets and those seem a bit louder.

    When they start to get loud, then you know it's time for a clean and grease.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXJ2ao-Iq14

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpnUp View Post
    [COLOR=#000000]

    In the future I might upgrade my frame so I't like something that can be upgraded to through axle if necessary. I think the 350 can do that ? Can the hope do it ?

    In terms of reliability which one has the best bearings in your opinion ?

    Thanks
    DT350s have a lot of axle swap options if you start with the 15QR hub as a basis. The DT ratchet system for the freehub is proabably one of the most bombproof of all freehub system as there are no small pawl springs that might bind up. Two large ratchets and large springs hold everything together. All of this can be replaced by hand.

    Hope Pro 4 vs DT 350-dt-star-ratchet-system.png

    The only real downside to the DT 350 hubs is slightly slower engagement if you can feel the difference. The price on the DT 350s is great as it's a virtual copy of the DT 240 hubs with slightly higher weight due to less machining of the hub shell for weight savings on the DT 240s.
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  6. #6
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    POE is way more important than noise IMO. That was one of the major unexpected benefits to going to Hope 2's vs the OEM set on my Giant. 15* to 10* is huge, makes a big difference in ratcheting up tech.

    Looking forward to the 3* engagement of my incoming i9's.
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  7. #7
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    I've done a lot of riding in a lot of different places, and 18T DTs have never held me back.

    Cone to think of it, I don't think I've ever "ratcheted", either.

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    I can barely hear my 350. I switched to the 36t ratchet and... honestly haven't noticed much difference. I like knowing that my wheels is "better", but that is about all it did for me at least.

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    I had to made a decision on hubs and the 2 you are looking at were right there. End of day I picked Onyx for what's suppose to be instant engagement and almost indestructible even for a clyde. I have read they are quiet as well.

    I won't have my wheels and hubs built and in my has for about 3 weeks so I can't give a ride report yet. Tough decision but from what I read (I read as much as I could find for weeks) any of the 2 will be damn good.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spectre View Post
    DT350s have a lot of axle swap options if you start with the 15QR hub as a basis. The DT ratchet system for the freehub is proabably one of the most bombproof of all freehub system as there are no small pawl springs that might bind up. Two large ratchets and large springs hold everything together. All of this can be replaced by hand.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DT Star Ratchet System.png 
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    The only real downside to the DT 350 hubs is slightly slower engagement if you can feel the difference. The price on the DT 350s is great as it's a virtual copy of the DT 240 hubs with slightly higher weight due to less machining of the hub shell for weight savings on the DT 240s.
    Wow thanks a lot for the answer. For the slower engagement you mean comparing to the pro4? You think the 350 is as solid as the 240?

  11. #11
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    The 350 uses the exact same mechanism as the 240. And the 180. And the 540 tandem hub.

    DT Swiss only sells one "grade" of star ratchet; there is no difference between an 18T that comes stock on a new 350, new 240, or new 540. They can be swapped between all of those hubs as they all use the same threaded "nut" to hold the star ratchets in place in the hub. They just thread into different hub shells.

    Meaning, the only difference is the hub shell, and, depending on perspective, perhaps slightly higher quality bearings on the 180.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpnUp View Post
    Wow thanks a lot for the answer. For the slower engagement you mean comparing to the pro4? You think the 350 is as solid as the 240?
    Hope Pro 4 stock has 44 tooth engagement. The DT350 comes stock with 18 point engagement with upgrade options for 36 and 54 point engagement.

    In terms of engagement, there is a lot of discussion about engagement but what I find in reality is that it does matter for some people, but actually not really so much for other people.

    Just found a bit more from DT on the star ratchet system: https://www.dtswiss.com/Technology/F...Ratchet-System

    The DT350 is absolutely as solid as the DT240 hubs with the same star ratchet system. Just spoke with my contact at DT at the Interbike Outdoor Demo last week and he joked that they really killed DT240 sales when they introduced the DT350 hubs. I use them on all of my demo bikes as I find them to be the best blend of performance, weight, durability & price (!) that I've found. Absolutely no nonsense and very little maintenance.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by biscut View Post
    I had to made a decision on hubs and the 2 you are looking at were right there. End of day I picked Onyx for what's suppose to be instant engagement and almost indestructible even for a clyde. I have read they are quiet as well.

    I won't have my wheels and hubs built and in my has for about 3 weeks so I can't give a ride report yet. Tough decision but from what I read (I read as much as I could find for weeks) any of the 2 will be damn good.
    Onyx make a great hub for sure. Bombproof with instant engagement. The weight is the only real downside. Their background in making agricultural machinery which needs to be durable is a real plus in my mind.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The 350 uses the exact same mechanism as the 240. And the 180. And the 540 tandem hub.

    DT Swiss only sells one "grade" of star ratchet; there is no difference between an 18T that comes stock on a new 350, new 240, or new 540. They can be swapped between all of those hubs as they all use the same threaded "nut" to hold the star ratchets in place in the hub. They just thread into different hub shells.

    Meaning, the only difference is the hub shell, and, depending on perspective, perhaps slightly higher quality bearings on the 180.
    I don't know if this is still true on the latest models, but I found that the star ratchet set on the DT240s were holllowed out in the back for more weight savings. I think the difference was like 20g if I recall correctly.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpnUp View Post
    In terms of reliability which one has the best bearings in your opinion
    Reliability is the same more or less. Hope bearings come from INA, DT Swiss make their own, both high quality.

    Hope hubs can fit every axle standard ever, even 24mm Maverick and Whyte 135x10 'Big Gripper' should you really, really want them.

    DT are more limited but have QR,135x12 and 142x12 covered. The front 350 comes in QR/15mm and a separate 20mm version, so be aware which front hub you are getting.

    If I had to choose I'd take the DT350. It's essentially a far eastern version of the 240 and the 240 ratchet upgrades are a drop in part should the standard 18t prove too low. The only reason I'd do that is because I find Hope hubs obnoxiously loud, they even drown out the King hubs I have now!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaks View Post
    I don't know if this is still true on the latest models, but I found that the star ratchet set on the DT240s were holllowed out in the back for more weight savings. I think the difference was like 20g if I recall correctly.
    I have a pair of 350's that came with the hollow 36T. I've also got some Roval wheels that use the 36T's also, but those are solid. Could just be some running change that DT made.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    Cone to think of it, I don't think I've ever "ratcheted", either.
    This is a good point. I came to MTB with a much better bike handling background than fitness (although admittedly, both were poor) my first couple seasons fast freehubs were a big help cuz i'd run out of gas and trackstand, or pedal VEEEERY slowly, or ratchet cuz my approach speed was nil or i was nervous... a fast freehub was pretty helpful. At some point later i moved to hubs with low POE and i never noticed a difference cuz i pedaled through and had the stamina and brain juice left to keep torque on the pedals.

    I haven't had to buy hubs in a long time, but POE isn't really that important any more.
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  18. #18
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    I have the 36t 240s and they have been great hub. They were actually a little noisy when I first got them, but after replacing the grease, they're almost silent now.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottzg View Post
    ...At some point later i moved to hubs with low POE and i never noticed a difference cuz i pedaled through and had the stamina and brain juice...
    Funny to read of ratcheting as a cheat or a technique to make up for lack of skill/strength.

    We may have a terrain variance here; there are several spots on my local trails that are a tire wide with rocks on both sides, and no fast sprint on the leadin possible. The only way through them is to ratchet. With the slow hubs I'm riding now, I can't make them any more.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyle242gt View Post
    Funny to read of ratcheting as a cheat or a technique to make up for lack of skill/strength.

    We may have a terrain variance here; there are several spots on my local trails that are a tire wide with rocks on both sides, and no fast sprint on the leadin possible. The only way through them is to ratchet. With the slow hubs I'm riding now, I can't make them any more.
    I'm in the south bay, we have the same terrain.

    I think the big thing is how fast you come in to obstacles like that; if you've got some momentum you can just pause your pedal stroke and coast a moment and use you upper body to get the bike up and it's no big deal. If you don't have the speed and need to pedal kick then fast engagement is important. I don't really know why i don't care any more, but i totally remember a fast hub being a big help, and now i swap between fast hub and slow hub and never notice a difference.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Duke View Post
    The 350 uses the exact same mechanism as the 240. And the 180. And the 540 tandem hub.

    DT Swiss only sells one "grade" of star ratchet; there is no difference between an 18T that comes stock on a new 350, new 240, or new 540. They can be swapped between all of those hubs as they all use the same threaded "nut" to hold the star ratchets in place in the hub. They just thread into different hub shells.

    Meaning, the only difference is the hub shell, and, depending on perspective, perhaps slightly higher quality bearings on the 180.
    There is no threaded nut. You just pull the whole freehub body off.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotth72 View Post
    There is no threaded nut. You just pull the whole freehub body off.
    I'm well aware you just pull the free hub off. That's not what I'm talking about.

    The grooved surface that the hubshell-side star nut sits in is threaded into the hubshell. DT Swiss calls it a ring nut, and it is definitely threaded. You have to remove it to replace the drive side hubshell bearing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Scotth72 View Post
    There is no threaded nut. You just pull the whole freehub body off.

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    Thank you all for all the great answers. I am now convinced to go for the 350; it seems to be the most versatile and bang for the bucks. I do a lot of "bad" jumping cause I don't have much techniques and really slams my back wheel a lot when landing with my hardtail so I have been through a few generic hubs already atm and looks like the 350 should be able to take the bating and if service is needed it should be a lot easier. Also a Mavic rim deserves a better hub
    Thank you again ! can't wait to get my wheel sorted.

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    I know I'm late but I got to say that 350 hubs are a little overrated. If I were going to buy cheap but decent hubs I would just get a pair of Novatec, I don't see any reason to choose the 350's over them. They roll good and hold well in my experience. I have the 4in1 models (881, 882), they include a lot of axles and adaptors for the front and rear. Easy to maintain and to change axle sizes and I got them for a similar price of a new 350 rear hub in eBay.
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  25. #25
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    I have 350's & 240s with the 36t ratchet. The Dt's are much quieter than the hope pro 4's.

    noise for what I have:
    240/350 (sameish), bhs slightly louder, hope pro4 (loudest from what I have).
    Operationally, I have not been disappointed by any of them.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpnUp View Post
    Thank you all for all the great answers. I am now convinced to go for the 350; it seems to be the most versatile and bang for the bucks. I do a lot of "bad" jumping cause I don't have much techniques and really slams my back wheel a lot when landing with my hardtail so I have been through a few generic hubs already atm and looks like the 350 should be able to take the bating and if service is needed it should be a lot easier. Also a Mavic rim deserves a better hub
    Thank you again ! can't wait to get my wheel sorted.
    So which hubs did you end up buying? Are you happy with your choice? I'm currently looking at hubs myself...I'd love to buy the Kings but, OMG they are expensive I'm not sure the reliability/longevity of the hub is relevant anymore; the bike industry keeps changing standards every couple years...forcing the consumer to upgrade when parts fail.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by griz View Post
    So which hubs did you end up buying? Are you happy with your choice? I'm currently looking at hubs myself...I'd love to buy the Kings but, OMG they are expensive I'm not sure the reliability/longevity of the hub is relevant anymore; the bike industry keeps changing standards every couple years...forcing the consumer to upgrade when parts fail.
    I got the DT350 in the end. I don't regret my choice at all, the build quality is really good but I had only light use. Also very quiet; miles opposite to hope

  28. #28
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    I have the hope pro 4 hubs and they spin well but are extremely loud- you can hear me coming from a mile away. lol

  29. #29
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    I like loudness of hoope hubs mainly because our trails get crowded and hikers can hear me and i dont even have to use bell or announce myself. I purposely got loud hubs for this very reasin. Also zero isssues in 7 years of usage. But these are old pro 2 evos

  30. #30
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    Dt350s. Came up through some trees on a fawn and doe on the trail. The fawn dropped and played dead even when I touched it lightly. The doe jumped around 10 feet away to draw me away. I don't want noise.

  31. #31
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    I just built up my hope pro 4's... and they're not loud enough. I remember the original pro2's were loud enough to make all your orifices bleed. These new ones have gone soft.

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    My 350 54r is just as loud (mabey a bit louder) than my mates pro4.
    The 54r gets some hard words on it's way but you need to do some tweaking to the bits to prevent them chip the teeth. Well some bust them and others dont. Make the two springs about 2mm longer by pulling them gently and use a lighter grease. I use Rock'n Roll SuperSlick.

  33. #33
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    Can anyone comment on how smoothly the Pro4 spins?

    I need a 148x12 hub w/ XD driver.

    I've narrowed it down to the Pro4 & the 350.

    Can anyone comment on how smoothly the Pro4 spins?
    I ask because my old Pro2 is nice, but it never spins as freely as some other hubs I own.
    It's not the bearings because with end caps removed it's like silk.
    The seals are really robust and I think they are dragging maybe?

  34. #34
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    You can feel that while riding the bike?

    Hopes have pretty good seals and you'll feel them in the stand. They roll just fine on the trail though. Not the smoothest in the world, but they're not bad either.

    A lot of us have had longevity problems with the stock pro4 bearings. I got 3 months out of them before they were gritty. Its not my favorite hub in the world.

    I wish I spent more and bought a white industries hub.

  35. #35
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    Guess I'll get the 350 hub then.
    Quieter is better anyhow.

  36. #36
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    Never wrong going DT. Pick POE based on what your riding.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    Guess I'll get the 350 hub then.
    Quieter is better anyhow.
    That is where I am at. Just trying to get the Onyx out of my mind before I throw down on some hoops with 350s and the 36 tooth upgrade.

  38. #38
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    $185 ?

    Why are these 350s so cheap?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    Why are these 350s so cheap?
    Not sure. But also not sure I would go with 54 either, from a durability perspective Every person I have spoken with in my area has suggested 36, or just stick with the stock 18. And I would say my area can be pretty rocky, with some relatively technical climbs. People here just don't seem to care much about POE.

    I am going to try the 350s with the 36, but I am also getting the stock 18 tooth ratchet thrown in as well, just in case...

    I have had 4 sets of 240s in a row. All 18 POE. All faultless.

  40. #40
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    I wouldnt overlook XTR's. They have far better bearings than even DT 240's, titanium freehubs, and they're pretty light. 36pt stock too.

    People seem to pass on them due to the adjustable bearings, but its a huge benefit, not downside!

  41. #41
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    Gman got pretty upset about the xtr comment and neg repped me

    Don't be a baby. They're good hubs.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Gman got pretty upset about the xtr comment and neg repped me

    Don't be a baby. They're good hubs.
    lol, what a maroon. I have an XTR hub and it's beautiful. Some people don't like the cup-n-cone because they are hacks, but if you want an amazingly smooth hub, they are great.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Gman got pretty upset about the xtr comment and neg repped me

    Don't be a baby. They're good hubs.
    Haha, Good advice is the worst.
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  44. #44
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Thats not too cheap. Kinda higher end of average. Check out the euro sites, you can find them closer to $150. I think some people were getting them as a set for under $200.
    The seller says these have the 54 tooth ratchet system.
    I ordered one.
    Will report my findings.

  46. #46
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    Its got the XD driver already too. Weird. Its a good deal considering that.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    The seller says these have the 54 tooth ratchet system.
    I ordered one.
    Will report my findings.
    They are 54POE and do come brand new with the XD freehub, just not in the original DT Swiss packaging.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 06HokieMTB View Post
    They are 54POE and do come brand new with the XD freehub, just not in the original DT Swiss packaging.
    : D Are you the seller? Or did you buy one?

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    lol, what a maroon. I have an XTR hub and it's beautiful. Some people don't like the cup-n-cone because they are hacks, but if you want an amazingly smooth hub, they are great.
    I can dial a cup and cone with the best of them and have owned plenty of XTR and XT hubs myself over the years. Yeah, they roll forever but the problem is they come out of adjustment often and their engagement is nothing short of awful (until apparently the latest gen and still not great). To say the XTR bearings are FAR better than 240 bearings is just plain heresy IMHO! I'm certainly NOT sad that my cone wrenches are collecting dust these dayz but to each their own. Sorry for the neg rep One Pivot, I confused you with onespeed, lol!

    Have FUN!

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  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I can dial a cup and cone with the best of them and have owned plenty of XTR and XT hubs myself over the years. Yeah, they roll forever but the problem is they come out of adjustment often and their engagement is nothing short of awful (until apparently the latest gen and still not great). To say the XTR bearings are FAR better than 240 bearings is just plain heresy IMHO! I'm certainly NOT sad that my cone wrenches are collecting dust these dayz but to each their own. Sorry for the neg rep One Pivot, I confused you with onespeed, lol!

    Have FUN!

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    Last edited by *OneSpeed*; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:13 AM.
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    SS 29+
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    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  51. #51
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Gman086's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *OneSpeed* View Post
    You must be good at making friends.
    I'm not here to make friends... I'm here to gain and share knowledge. Again, to each their own.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  52. #52
    Asswipe
    Reputation: *OneSpeed*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I'm not here to make friends... I'm here to gain and share knowledge. Again, to each their own.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Spreading negative rep based on someone else's opinion/experience is beneficial to who?

    Life lesson- If you behave like an Asshole, expect to be treated like an asshole.
    Rigid SS 29er
    SS 29+
    Fat Lefty
    SS cyclocross
    Full Sus 29er (Yuck)

    Stop asking how much it weighs and just go ride it.

  53. #53
    100% PRIME ALBERTA BEEF
    Reputation: mtnbkrmike's Avatar
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    2,236
    Quote Originally Posted by Gman086 View Post
    I'm not here to make friends... I'm here to gain and share knowledge. Again, to each their own.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    None of my business but the neg repping comes across at my end as a bit of a drive by shooting. A little random and extreme. Is this because he said he likes XTR hubs? Why does his opinion warrant a neg rep? Maybe I missed the provocation. But even worse, I went back and I can't even find where he gave an opinion on XTR hubs, or anything for that matter. Crazy shit.

  54. #54
    Elitest thrill junkie
    Reputation: Jayem's Avatar
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    30,059
    I rarely give out negative rep, usually only to someone acting like a j-a$$ where mutliple people have already done the same thing (neg repped). Even if I get in a heated discussion or argument, it's almost never a reason to "negative rep". People's skin should be thicker than that. I probably give out 20x+ more positive than negative, it's really a rarity and usually someone who should be banned.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  55. #55
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    : D Are you the seller? Or did you buy one?
    Bought one. It's on my hardtail.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

  56. #56
    Barely in control
    Reputation: Schulze's Avatar
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by client_9 View Post
    Why are these 350s so cheap?
    In Europe you can find that exact model with 18t ratchet for $148 from the big retailers. Maybe someone got a line on them at a reasonable price? It's not THAT great of a price.

  57. #57
    Rocks belong
    Reputation: 06HokieMTB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schulze View Post
    In Europe you can find that exact model with 18t ratchet for $148 from the big retailers. Maybe someone got a line on them at a reasonable price? It's not THAT great of a price.
    From what I understand, the 54T upgrade is around $75-80. So I think it's a good deal.
    I like 'em long, low, slack and playful

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